The Force Choke

[StarWarsFan1]

I wonder why gl did not have at least one force choke in rtoj, and ideas why and if there should of been where? Will gl have any in ep3?

[X-3PO]

Hello! Luke Force chokes the guards at Jabba's Palace! http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/ups/icis/ices_tot.gif

[StarWarsFan1]

yes i new that well that i guess was a big change you never see that from the jedi but how come vader never did it he "invented" the damn thing.

[Darth Bigalow]

I dont think Luke used a force choke on the Gammorean guards. I think he played with thier hearts to have them in temporary pain. Maybe he killed them i dont know but he definetely did not use the force choke

[Raganork8]

^why we say that i don't know It was Force choke but i don't think he killed tham.
And vader does use force choke on jejerrod in the death star in a deleted scene that takes place as vader wants to be readmitted into palpy's chambers after palpy told him to stay on the command ship.
The protocalist strike again!

[Raganork8]

I'm sure if frendon saw this he would have a complete picture of the force choke in ROTJ.

[X-3PO]

but he definetely did not use the force choke

What are you talking about? There are several sources saying that he Force chokes the guards at Jabba's palace, why would they be reaching for their throats? though it is unlikely he killed them, just rendered them unconscious.

I think one of the reasons we see Luke doing this and not Vader is to show a little like father like son. Luke already has the black outfit and a little Force choke reminds us of who he is related to.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Darth Bigalow@Dec 20 2002, 03:29 PM
I dont think Luke used a force choke on the Gammorean guards.....
Luke definitely used the choke. Maybe he (or the writers) didn't yet know that this was a Sith move that the Jedi don't use. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Mann]

Luke was dressed like a Sith. Maybe he adapted both Sith and Jedi moves, which enables him to fight Vader.

[X-3PO]

Luke definitely used the choke. Maybe he (or the writers) didn't yet know that this was a Sith move that the Jedi don't use

But it's not like it's impossible for a Jedi to do a Force choke, they just use the Force for Knowledge and Defense. I think Luke was just partially trained and so uses whatever moves he thinks are right at the time. Remember he's not quite a Jedi yet, and he has half assed training.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by X-3PO@Dec 23 2002, 12:14 AM
But it's not like it's impossible for a Jedi to do a Force choke, they just use the Force for Knowledge and Defense.
I agree. But since a choke would be offensive, not defensive, he's doing it wrong.

[Mann]

The force choke needed to be in Episode I. Wouldn't it have been cool if anakin won the podrace because Sebulba was about to win, but Anakin's frustration caused him to choke Sebulba for a few seconds, allowing Anakin to win.

[echoseven]

FYI,
The new video game, Knights of the Old Republic, which George Lucas has had a big hand in, says that there are no limitations on "sith or jedi" moves... but a darksider would use less force ability to use a dark power while a jedi using the choke move would not be as good with it.

That being said, I don't agree with the whole Sith/Jedi limitations that have been brought up. I doubt that the choke move was a "Sith" move only... the point everyone is missing is the intention. The darkside is about personal gain, power, anger etc... the light side is about defense, goodness, welfare..etc. I don't think that a SW character would have to make a decision as to if he were a Sith or Jedi before he could use a certain move... The way he uses the force determines his alignment. Luke is obviously touching on the darkside, just like he did fighting Vader, the difference is that he doesn't finish the job, he doesn't completely give in to the darkside, he catches himself. If you read some of the material about EP II, you can see that Mace Windu's style of fighting is the closest to the darkside and touches on it.

[X-3PO]

Very good points! I agree with what you are saying.

[echoseven]

Thanks, I think I was just piggybacking on what you had already begun to say.

[Isomorph]

Originally posted by echoseven@Jan 10 2003, 02:09 PM
FYI,
The new video game, Knights of the Old Republic, which George Lucas has had a big hand in, says that there are no limitations on "sith or jedi" moves... but a darksider would use less force ability to use a dark power while a jedi using the choke move would not be as good with it.

That being said, I don't agree with the whole Sith/Jedi limitations that have been brought up. I doubt that the choke move was a "Sith" move only... the point everyone is missing is the intention. The darkside is about personal gain, power, anger etc... the light side is about defense, goodness, welfare..etc. I don't think that a SW character would have to make a decision as to if he were a Sith or Jedi before he could use a certain move... The way he uses the force determines his alignment. Luke is obviously touching on the darkside, just like he did fighting Vader, the difference is that he doesn't finish the job, he doesn't completely give in to the darkside, he catches himself. If you read some of the material about EP II, you can see that Mace Windu's style of fighting is the closest to the darkside and touches on it.
you made a very good point.

[Obidobi]

Pic from the deleted scene where Vader choke Jerjerod in ROTJ

[darth scourge]

Originally posted by X-3PO@Dec 21 2002, 04:31 PM
but he definetely did not use the force choke

What are you talking about? There are several sources saying that he Force chokes the guards at Jabba's palace, why would they be reaching for their throats? though it is unlikely he killed them, just rendered them unconscious.

I think one of the reasons we see Luke doing this and not Vader is to show a little like father like son. Luke already has the black outfit and a little Force choke reminds us of who he is related to.
Quoted post


Luke used affect mind to send the guards back to sleep,if he had used force choke you would have heard the rumbling noise like when Vader does it.Also the Gamorrean doesnt stop breathing if you look closely.Consider this,Vader chokes Ozzel in ESB and it takes about 10 seconds to kill him and Vaders a top Sith dude,Luke APPARENTLY chokes 2 Gamorreans in about 3 seconds,force choke i dont think so.Luke wears the black tunic because of his father but doesnt use force choke,if anything, someone choking me would more than likely wake me up than knock me out.

[jedijaybird]

Luke force chokes them…

[darth scourge]

Originally posted by jedijaybird@Sep 29 2004, 11:16 PM
Luke force chokes them…
Quoted post


then why does luke wave his hand like a mind trick instead of gripping his fingers like Vader does.Gamorreans are weak minded, which luke will have learned to use mind trick on after obi wan did on the weak minded stormtroopers.Force choke is a dark side power, who taught luke that?

[jedijaybird]

When Vader force chokes Ozzel via hologram he doesn't raise his finger… so hand gestures don't have anything to do with Force Choking… not to mention that Luke wasn't conventionally trained as a Jedi so his methods may be a little unconventional

[darth scourge]

Originally posted by jedijaybird@Sep 29 2004, 11:55 PM
When Vader force chokes Ozzel via hologram he doesn't raise his finger… so hand gestures don't have anything to do with Force Choking… not to mention that Luke wasn't conventionally trained as a Jedi so his methods may be a little unconventional
Quoted post


i dont recall seeing vaders hands when he chokes ozzel so who says he doesnt use them.Anyway this is an argument that wont be solved unless a source tells us so.We all like to draw our own conclusions.

[bigscreensatellite]

Force Choke - is that an official term or is there perhaps another 'more' official name for it...?

i'm only wondering because there could be 'Light' Force and 'Dark' Force versions...

which in turn have differening effects on their subjects....

[jedijaybird]

Force Choke?… Force Constrict?… Force Strangle?… Force Suffocate?… Force Asphyxiate?… Force Snuff? what ever we call it, it's an aggressive power

[Sam Kenobi]

If EU has any baring on this, than in the NJO, you remember that the Jedi learned they can attack without it being for the dark side. As long as your intentions are good. Besides, I think Luke was just rendering them unconscious. What else should he have done?

[darthimmus]

Originally posted by Sam Kenobi@Sep 30 2004, 12:04 PM
If EU has any baring on this, than in the NJO, you remember that the Jedi learned they can attack without it being for the dark side. As long as your intentions are good.
Quoted post

I agree. If you think about it, swinging a laser sword at somebody seems a bit agressive...from a certain point of view.

[Lord Ulic]

Originally posted by darth scourge+Sep 29 2004, 06:49 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darth scourge @ Sep 29 2004, 06:49 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-jedijaybird@Sep 29 2004, 11:16 PM
Luke force chokes them…
Quoted post


then why does luke wave his hand like a mind trick instead of gripping his fingers like Vader does.Gamorreans are weak minded, which luke will have learned to use mind trick on after obi wan did on the weak minded stormtroopers.Force choke is a dark side power, who taught luke that?
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

Errr he does hold his fingers in a very Vader-ish way. It didn't look at all like a mind trick. A mind trick is more like waving.

[SenDod2]

You are right. If you watch Obi Wan in A New Hope. He uses that trick on a stromtrooper. Notice he waves and does not form a chocke hold.

[bigscreensatellite]

Originally posted by SenDod2@Oct 5 2004, 07:27 PM
You are right. If you watch Obi Wan in A New Hope. He uses that trick on a stromtrooper. Notice he waves and does not form a chocke hold.
Quoted post


it was the same with Qui Gonn and Watto in Episode I

"republic credits will be fine"

"no they won't"

but then again he uses a wave of the hand to alter the roll of the chance cube as well...jedi's are more sleight of hand i think....mmm?

[The_Senator_from_Terra]

Luke force choked the guards, whether he killed them outright or just enough to knock them out is for another debate. But he choked them, it's obvious. Don't inject extra crap from EU or gaming sources. He did not use "affect mind" on them to put them to sleep, whoever said that. The guards are clearly grasping for their throats. Come on, geeze... "Affect mind" indeed... I played KOTOR I know all about that extra force crap and it has nothing to do with the movies.

[Javen]

Wow, Senator you sure have a nice attitude around thses threads. I'm sure some people don't think EU is crap whether you do or not.

[The_Senator_from_Terra]

i dont think EU is crap, sorry for the misrepresentation. as well, I am not a hothead lol...

[Kapit]

HAHHAHA, man, no offense, but you keep coming off as quite the angry one, hehe

anywho, luke did choke the guards, and yes it's an inherently dark power, but he did it without the killing, which makes it a little tiny bit better

[Matt]

Well he needed to look bad-ass to scare the crap out of Jabba and co... If he'd gone in there in a white gown waving his hands around "affect minding" people, they'd have just shot him. The Sithesque style was far more terrifying. And it almost worked too, if it weren't for that pesky Rancor pit!

And whoever said, "Force Choke is a dark side power, who taught him that?" I don't believe you teach moves/powers, they come naturally, you just maybe need a little guidence to perfect them. Remeber, Anakin learned to squeeze someones wind-pipe shut out of anger whilst on the planet Jabiim. No one taught him this, it was just a natural act of aggression through the force.

Vader likedto put his insubordinates under a little stress and pain before finally choking them. As far as I can see, Luke as far less efficiency, and so simply snaps their necks. Hence the snappy crushy noises and the sudden grasping of the throat followed immediately by the sudden death... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[The_Senator_from_Terra]

JediKap you know it would have been better to have just let me have my little comment and not have provoked it further but do't worry I'm not going to bite on this bait =)

[darth scourge]

Originally posted by Matt@Oct 7 2004, 07:53 PM
Well he needed to look bad-ass to scare the crap out of Jabba and co... If he'd gone in there in a white gown waving his hands around "affect minding" people, they'd have just shot him. The Sithesque style was far more terrifying. And it almost worked too, if it weren't for that pesky Rancor pit!

And whoever said, "Force Choke is a dark side power, who taught him that?" I don't believe you teach moves/powers, they come naturally, you just maybe need a little guidence to perfect them. Remeber, Anakin learned to squeeze someones wind-pipe shut out of anger whilst on the planet Jabiim. No one taught him this, it was just a natural act of aggression through the force.

Vader likedto put his insubordinates under a little stress and pain before finally choking them. As far as I can see, Luke as far less efficiency, and so simply snaps their necks. Hence the snappy crushy noises and the sudden grasping of the throat followed immediately by the sudden death... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif
Quoted post


What a moron,you so called star wars know it all should remember Jabba quoting
'you weak minded fool,hes using an old jedi mind trick' to Bib Fortuna,so why wasnt he shot for that?Crushing someones throat is what light siders do,do they?
The Gamorreans werent killed because you see one of them breathing after they fall back on the wall.As for guidance Obi wan taught Luke about the mind trick in Mos Eisly,I dont recal any sources on him learning about choking or getting guidance on it.Yodas own words 'a jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense,
never for attack'.Force choking is attacking,and dont give me any crap about Luke was defending himself.OK

[Matt]

You keep telling yourself that...

[darth scourge]

Originally posted by Matt@Oct 17 2004, 08:00 PM
You keep telling yourself that...
Quoted post



Whats a matter,cant give an explanation to the replies,prove me wrong my young
Jedi.Give it your best.HAHAHAHAHHAH

[Matt]

Originally posted by darth scourge@Oct 17 2004, 08:33 PM
What a moron,you so called star wars know it all should remember Jabba quoting
'you weak minded fool,hes using an old jedi mind trick' to Bib Fortuna,so why wasnt he shot for that?

Firstly, I'm no SW know-it-all... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif And my moronisity is probably due to me being high most the time. AND why wasn't who shot for what?

Crushing someones throat is what light siders do,do they?

I don't think Luke was truly a light-sider, he only had so many months training, whereas the Jedi of old had years, since birth. Lukes methods were a little unconventional... I mean look at the way he finally defeats Vader... And it;s not like he listens to Yoda and Obi that much, he totally goes against their advice and chases after his friends on Cloud City...

The Gamorreans werent killed because you see one of them breathing after they fall back on the wall.

Okay, so maybe they weren't dead. Just stunned from the force choke. Not much difference really.

As for guidance Obi wan taught Luke about the mind trick in Mos Eisly,I dont recal any sources on him learning about choking or getting guidance on it.Yodas own words 'a jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense,
never for attack'.Force choking is attacking,and dont give me any crap about Luke was defending himself.OK

Lol. You could argue he was defending himself. But I like to think he was demonstrating his darkness, and his 'don't mess with me' kind of attitude, henct the dark robes and hidden face. And neither Yoda nor Obi told Luke about being able to choke someone with the force becuase, why would they? It's not something a true Jedi would resort to. Maybe that's why Luke used it without thinking too much about it.

[darth scourge]

Originally posted by Matt+Oct 17 2004, 08:21 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Matt @ Oct 17 2004, 08:21 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-darth scourge@Oct 17 2004, 08:33 PM
What a moron,you so called star wars know it all should remember Jabba quoting
'you weak minded fool,hes using an old jedi mind trick' to Bib Fortuna,so why wasnt he shot for that?

Firstly, I'm no SW know-it-all... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif And my moronisity is probably due to me being high most the time. AND why wasn't who shot for what?

Crushing someones throat is what light siders do,do they?

I don't think Luke was truly a light-sider, he only had so many months training, whereas the Jedi of old had years, since birth. Lukes methods were a little unconventional... I mean look at the way he finally defeats Vader... And it;s not like he listens to Yoda and Obi that much, he totally goes against their advice and chases after his friends on Cloud City...

The Gamorreans werent killed because you see one of them breathing after they fall back on the wall.

Okay, so maybe they weren't dead. Just stunned from the force choke. Not much difference really.

As for guidance Obi wan taught Luke about the mind trick in Mos Eisly,I dont recal any sources on him learning about choking or getting guidance on it.Yodas own words 'a jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense,
never for attack'.Force choking is attacking,and dont give me any crap about Luke was defending himself.OK

Lol. You could argue he was defending himself. But I like to think he was demonstrating his darkness, and his 'don't mess with me' kind of attitude, henct the dark robes and hidden face. And neither Yoda nor Obi told Luke about being able to choke someone with the force becuase, why would they? It's not something a true Jedi would resort to. Maybe that's why Luke used it without thinking too much about it.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

Why wasnt Luke shot,you said if hed have gone in with white robes affect minding people he would have been shot.

[Matt]

Because he'd look like a wuss. No one would have taken him seriously. He'd have pranced in there, and everyone would have stared for a moment, laughed, and shot him. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif When he seemingly choked the guards, people were like, OMG! This guy means business... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

[darth scourge]

Originally posted by darth scourge+Oct 17 2004, 08:27 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darth scourge @ Oct 17 2004, 08:27 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Matt@Oct 17 2004, 08:21 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-darth scourge@Oct 17 2004, 08:33 PM
What a moron,you so called star wars know it all should remember Jabba quoting
'you weak minded fool,hes using an old jedi mind trick' to Bib Fortuna,so why wasnt he shot for that?

Firstly, I'm no SW know-it-all... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif And my moronisity is probably due to me being high most the time. AND why wasn't who shot for what?

Crushing someones throat is what light siders do,do they?

I don't think Luke was truly a light-sider, he only had so many months training, whereas the Jedi of old had years, since birth. Lukes methods were a little unconventional... I mean look at the way he finally defeats Vader... And it;s not like he listens to Yoda and Obi that much, he totally goes against their advice and chases after his friends on Cloud City...

The Gamorreans werent killed because you see one of them breathing after they fall back on the wall.

Okay, so maybe they weren't dead. Just stunned from the force choke. Not much difference really.

As for guidance Obi wan taught Luke about the mind trick in Mos Eisly,I dont recal any sources on him learning about choking or getting guidance on it.Yodas own words 'a jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense,
never for attack'.Force choking is attacking,and dont give me any crap about Luke was defending himself.OK

Lol. You could argue he was defending himself. But I like to think he was demonstrating his darkness, and his 'don't mess with me' kind of attitude, henct the dark robes and hidden face. And neither Yoda nor Obi told Luke about being able to choke someone with the force becuase, why would they? It's not something a true Jedi would resort to. Maybe that's why Luke used it without thinking too much about it.
Quoted post


Why wasnt Luke shot,you said if hed have gone in with white robes affect minding people he would have been shot.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

Lets take our anger out on trekkies anyway dude.

[T-bone]

as long as you take it out of here.

[Matt]

I have nothing against Trekkies, I think they're amusing. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/chortle.gif

[darthimmus]

Originally posted by Matt@Oct 18 2004, 01:39 AM
I have nothing against Trekkies, I think they're amusing. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/chortle.gif
Quoted post

Thanks

[smudger9]

why does luke wave his hand like a mind trick instead of gripping his fingers like Vader does

Vader doesnt always grip his fingers... i dont recall him doing it when he force choked admiral Oswald in ESB. I have to say i think he does the choke but instead of doing it to mame someone like Vader does he simply does it to get those grim, snotty guards out of the way so they dont get crap on his nice new cloak.
I always thought the whole point of the "choking episode" was to show the audience how he had matured in his use of the force since ESB - gone from getting his but kicked by a Vader who wasnt even trying to using force chokes and mind tricks like he'd been using them all his life.

[bendu]

I believe that the Luke was choking the Gammoreans for two reasons. One is for storytelling purposes. He's dressed in black, he's Force choking, it's to reinforce in the audience minds that Luke is walking the thin line between light and dark. It gives the feeling that he may follow the same path as his father. The second reason is the Gammoreans clearly were clenching their throats.

I don't get why everyone assumes he needed to learn to choke people with the Force directly. It can't be much different from grabbing a rock and moving it about with the Force. After you learned to grasp things did someone have to teach you how to grasp every new object you encountered? It's kind of self explanatory. Hmmmm, if I can grab a rock with my mind, maybe i can grab a gun too, or a guy's neck.

To address how quickly the choke took affect compared to when Vader does it, Luke wasn't killing the Gammoreans. He probably gave them like a quick wack to the throat or something along those lines.

[darth scourge]

To address how quickly the choke took affect compared to when Vader does it, Luke wasn't killing the Gammoreans. He probably gave them like a quick wack to the throat or something along those lines.
Quoted post
[/quote]

Come to think of it he may be using a completely different force power altogether,you never know.

[Kapit]

no, it was a choke of some sort, they reached for their necks

[DarthAnakin]

Originally posted by JediKaputski@Nov 1 2004, 04:59 PM
no, it was a choke of some sort, they reached for their necks
Quoted post


Yeah it was definitely a choke, I think it was part of the storyline to show that Luke was now powerful but was right on the very thin line that seperates good and evil.