View Full Version : Clone Wars and Canon
RollaFett
03-29-2005, 10:42 AM
I didn't see a thread regarding the Clone Wars micro series and how canon it is anywhere else, so here I go.
What level of canon is the micro-series? Specifically, Volume II?
The reason I ask is that it seemed quite clear to me that Volume II's purpose is to bridge the gap between AOTC and ROTS. So much so that Vol.2 ends just as ROTS is set to begin. I seem to recall Lucas himself discussing that very aspect of it on the Vol.1 dvd.
Sam Kenobi
03-29-2005, 12:29 PM
I don't even consider it Star Wars at this point. Not until the continuity is "fixed."
RollaFett
03-29-2005, 12:32 PM
What do you mean by that?
Sam Kenobi
03-29-2005, 12:46 PM
I am just very dissapointed by the continuity errors between the existing EU and season III. I very much like the action, and I was very hyped about the last season, but when they brought back dead Jedi in the first episode, I was skeptical. When they contradicted LoE, and continued to do so, I was dissapointed. So untill someone comes up with a theory for both stories to coinside, I prefer LoE's storyline to tCWMS's.
RollaFett
03-29-2005, 01:03 PM
Do you mean season II? By the way, I havn't read the book you're talking about either.
Sam Kenobi
03-29-2005, 01:51 PM
I thought it was Volume II a.k.a. Season III. I believe the action figures say Season III. And check the other thread you posted in. I posted a summary of the main continuity errors, which turned into a summary of LoE's Battle of Coruscant.
Sam Kenobi
03-29-2005, 01:56 PM
Star Wars TV Series, 30 minute episodes!
Originally posted by LasheFett@Mar 29 2005, 09:52 AM
THE CLONE WARS LIVES!!!!!!!!
Its comfirmed.......KICK ASS!!!!
Could it be CLone Wars Volume III: The Emipire?
Clone Wars TV...Interveiw with Lucas (http://comingsoon.net/news.php?id=8978)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happydance.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
RollaFett
03-29-2005, 05:19 PM
Oh, yeah. I forgot that Volume I was actually 2 seasons. So that would make Volume II as season 3. My bad.
Ripley the Warmaster
03-29-2005, 07:28 PM
<span style="color:blue">From the official site...
The cartoon portions of Nelvaan take place just after they are mentioned in Labyrinth. The placement of the scenes (in both the novel and the cartoon) make it appear that certain events are taking place simultaneously for dramatic effect when they actually are not.
With any story, writers choose only those parts of the events that they can effectively portray and they feel is crucial to the story they are trying to tell. Hence you don't get the full picture of everything Mace Windu does during the Battle of Coruscant just by watching the cartoon or just by reading the novel. Even within the same scene, you might not be getting the entire picture of all the events taking place because of what the camera or writer focuses on (hence Stass Allie is not seen with Shaak Ti in the cartoon; these events are taking place just offscreen [see The2ndquest 's earlier post for a possible order of events].)
One other thing to keep in mind is that the target audience for the cartoons and the novels is different so they will each have a different approach to storytelling. As a result, certain action scenes and Jedi abilities sometimes will be exagerated in the cartoon a bit.
In conclusion, each story was created to be enjoyed independently of the other*. Enjoy them for what they are.
*Note that the online comic strip "Reversal of Fortune" acknowledges both sources and was written with both the cartoon and novel in mind.
That should clear up all complaing about the timeline.
I found the cartoon to be perfect Star Wars, a visual mix of comedy and serious events. Very few EU is better than the cartoon.</span>
Brian
03-29-2005, 09:09 PM
Can I get a link?
Ningen
03-29-2005, 09:38 PM
You know, before this was posted I was going to bring up how different media outlets can allow for different storytelling. There are minor discrepencies between Labyrinth of Evil and the Clone Wars micro-series, but the events clearly mirror one another when it comes to the main point of the story.
Ripley the Warmaster
03-30-2005, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Brian@Mar 29 2005, 06:09 PM
Can I get a link?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
Here you go. (http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=196444&start=0257)
Brian
03-30-2005, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Ningen@Mar 29 2005, 09:38 PM
You know, before this was posted I was going to bring up how different media outlets can allow for different storytelling. There are minor discrepencies between Labyrinth of Evil and the Clone Wars micro-series, but the events clearly mirror one another when it comes to the main point of the story.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
Exactly. While I haven't read Labyrinth of Evil, I'm sure there are some discrepencies with other Clone Wars sources. It's inevitable. But folks should look at them as different points-of-view. I guess people need something to complain about. Maybe I'm not too concerned since I enjoyed the cartoon and am not a continuity/canon buff. It's all freakin' fiction to me. Fun stuff, that's it.
T-bone
03-31-2005, 10:26 PM
Reviews from Nathan Butler:
http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/reviews/filmtv.htm
duck dodgers
04-03-2005, 04:00 AM
I posed this question on another forum, as some fanboys were rallying around the "MUST be within continuity/canon" point a little too hard:
If Clone Wars vol. II had premiered before Labyrinth of Evil or Reversal of Fortune were published, would it still be "wrong" in terms of continuity?
Sam Kenobi
04-03-2005, 12:18 PM
Whichever storyline was in the works first. LoE and RoF would not have completely disregarded the rest of the EU like that.
Kapit
04-03-2005, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Ningen@Mar 29 2005, 08:38 PM
You know, before this was posted I was going to bring up how different media outlets can allow for different storytelling. There are minor discrepencies between Labyrinth of Evil and the Clone Wars micro-series, but the events clearly mirror one another when it comes to the main point of the story.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
the events mirrored, yes, but there were some pretty big continuity errors
anakin's trial took place on Preslaytian (sp?) in "jedi trial"
when coruscant is invaded, mace and a couple others (i forget who) are underneath 500 Republica, and never does he enter a fighter to protect coruscant. also, while the mag-lev trains are in both LoE and CW, in LoE they actually ride one, grievous fights mace and kit fisto, there are four padawans with shaak ti (protecting palpy), grievous doesn't bust in through the window, instead he walks in the door
i think there's a few i'm missing....but anyways, i love clone wars, it's a lot of fun, but i wish they had paid more attention to the continuity because these are clearly things that didn't happen in LoE
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If Clone Wars vol. II had premiered before Labyrinth of Evil or Reversal of Fortune were published, would it still be "wrong" in terms of continuity?[/b][/quote]
i myself go by the books first and foremost, then everything else
Ningen
04-03-2005, 11:54 PM
In the Clone Wars micro-series Anakin was already made a Jedi Knight before he and Obi-Wan wound up on that out-of-the-way planet. A lot of people seem to believe that the series set it up so that was his final trial to become a Jedi Knight. It wasn't. It just so happened that it was the perfect scenario for a Trial of the Spirit, the one trial Anakin hadn't yet faced.
As for the differences, all I can say is that it's identical to asking two different people about a fight they watched. You're going to get differing accounts, but, ultimately, the main points will be present in both stories.
Valin Kenobi
04-11-2005, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Sam Kenobi@Apr 3 2005, 09:18 AM
Whichever storyline was in the works first.* LoE and RoF would not have completely disregarded the rest of the EU like that.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
From my soon-to-be-posted interview with Jim Luceno:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Labyrinth is closely intertwined with the Reversal of Fortune webstrip and Clone Wars Season III animated episodes. How closely did you work with Paul Ens and Cartoon Network to mesh your work with theirs?
Unfortunately there was very little collaboration.* I was under the proverbial gun to deliver a manuscript by May, 2004; so, immediately after the LucasFilm meeting, I started working on the outline.* I had just received LFL’s approval when I learned about the Clone Wars animated series and about Dark Horse Comics’ on-again/off-again Countdown series.* I was fairly dismayed after reading the outlines for both projects.* All of us were starting and ending at the same places, but using different roads.* Attempts were made to bring the three projects closer in line by divvying up the characters and the various plotlines.* Dark Horse eventually ran with what became the Obsession series.* But the animated series was more problematic, because it wasn’t going to be story-boarded, let alone completed, until long after my deadline for Labyrinth had elapsed.* (The original outline, for example, included a fight aboard the train.)* As for Reversal of Fortune, I didn’t even learn about it until much later in the year.[/b][/quote]
So Labyrinth was wayyyyyyyy in advance of the cartoon's completion. Ergo, the cartoon's fault.
Master Magnus
04-11-2005, 07:35 PM
^Great Valin, thanks! I consider Clone Wars Season III as apocrypha due to a number of reasons, not only the grave continuity errors.
Originally posted by duck dodgers@Apr 3 2005, 08:00 AM
I posed this question on another forum, as some fanboys were rallying around the "MUST be within continuity/canon" point a little too hard:
If Clone Wars vol. II had premiered before Labyrinth of Evil or Reversal of Fortune were published, would it still be "wrong" in terms of continuity?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
Yes, it would have been IMO. Among other things, the portrayal of Palpatine was horrendous.
Oh, welcome to the boards, duck dodgers!
Sam Kenobi
04-12-2005, 07:57 AM
It wasn't horrendous, but it wasn't that good. His character certainly was the weirdest looking of them all.
Sam Kenobi
04-12-2005, 07:58 AM
But in relation to the other characters, he was the worst.
Ko-Enshaku
04-22-2005, 08:59 PM
Thanks Valin for that info.
I just kind of assumed that LOE would have precedence over whatever the Season III CW cartoon said. For one, it was a better story, more cohesive and interesting.
I really enjoyed Chapters 1-20, but Season III was, in my opinion, largely an abomination. Although it did have some really good parts, and the animation and all was still good, the focus wasn't there.
Episodes 1-20 really worked as one huge story for the most part. 20-25 were disproportionate in their storytelling and it seemed almost dumbed down, not to mention the continuity errors. (I was under the impression some of those members of the Jedi Council had already died by the time Anakin became a Knight...)
As such, I cannot in good conscience admit any of the Clone Wars cartoon as canon, though most of it is a lot of fun to watch.
Sam Kenobi
04-22-2005, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Ko-Enshaku@Apr 22 2005, 03:59 PM
(I was under the impression some of those members of the Jedi Council had already died by the time Anakin became a Knight...)<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
So was I, but after I did some research, I found nothing. If I can find my "research," I'll post it.
Ripley the Warmaster
04-23-2005, 12:30 AM
<span style="color:blue">Clone Wars and Labyrinth of Evil can take place at the same time easily. The greatest EU villain allows it to be so.
A few weeks before events of the two conflicting events happen, Anakin finds his way to Crseih Station, which was then in the area of the black hole and crystallizing white star that it'll be famous for. Anakin's ship, a dreadnaught the Republic acquired from the events of The Dreadnaughts of Rendili, docks with the station. Anakin goes to investigates the station. Here Anakin meets the greatest EU villain of all time, Waru. Anakin does battle with this creature, but Waru encases the chosen one in his meaty form
See, Waru is sorta like those doors from The Dark Tower. He can transport people, like it did to Henthir in The Crystal Star, to other universes. Waru transports Anakin to a universe similar to the GFFA, yet there are subtle differences. Anakin leaves Waru, finds a shuttle, and leaves Crseih Station. He arrives at Coruscant to find out he's in the other universe. He tells this is another universe when Obi-Wan goes from this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Sniper_Wolf_the_Warmaster/obi_wan_vf.jpg) to this. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Sniper_Wolf_the_Warmaster/obiwan.jpg) When Anakin realises that the Republic is getting ready to invade Muunilinst, Anakin now knows he is two years and eight months in the past in this other world. Other Obi-Wan and the other Jedi are surprised to see Anakin because the other world's Anakin is believed to have died at Thule fighting the Dark Reaper. Beliving he is stuck in this universe, do to the hyperspace coordinates for Crseih not being on the shuttle, Anakin decides to fight again in this universe. Anakin then prepares to leave with other Obi-Wan's fleet to assault Muunilist
Muunilist is a major Republic success the second time around. Anakin now has the horror of reliving nearly the entire war again. Do to being forced to relive the events of Jabiim, Aargonar, Praesitlyn, the Rendili incident, Obseesion, the Outer Rim Sieges, and countless other battles. Going through these hells a second time isn't very good on poor Anakin's mental status. Later, the other events on Nelvaan and the other beginning of the Battle of Coruscant as seen in Clone Wars happen.
After the events of other Nelvaan, the Ventor-class Star Destroyer(or was it an Acclamator?) Anakin and other Obi-Wan are on course for o Coruscant, just like at the end of Clone Wars: Chapter 25. However, on the way to Coruscant, the Ventor is pulled out of hyperspace to do the gravity well of a black hole. As it appears to be the will of the Force, Anakin is brought back to Crseih and Waru. Anakin goes to the station, so a second duel between the Chosen One and Waru happens. Anakin wins this times. He makes Waru return him to his universe. Waru does so. Then Waru travels to Thule to find the other world's Anakin still alive, yet he's nearly insane do to being trapped on Thule for almost three years. Waru gives the other Anakin the memories of the proper Anakin times in the other universe. Waru transports other Anakin to the Ventor, and the Ventor reaches Coruscant. That timeline goes on, but the insanity of other Anakin helps him become other style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/vader.gif.
When proper Anakin arrives back to the Crseih Station of the proper timeline, he finds out only five seconds has passed. He leaves the station. Upon reaching Coruscant, Anakin is sent to help Obi-Wan in the conquest of Cato Nemodia. Then the events of Labyrinth of Evil take place. Do to the damage did to Anakin's mind during the universe switch, his fall to the dark side is made easier.
See, when in need of fixing the timeline of Star Wars, always turn to Waru. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif</span>
Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)
04-23-2005, 01:45 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>See, when in need of fixing the timeline of Star Wars, always turn to Waru[/b][/quote]
Wow. I've seen some creative suggestions for resolution of the issues, but this one surpasses them all! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
Kapit
04-23-2005, 04:38 AM
ripley, i applaud you for having the most plausible impossible story i have ever seen. major kudos to you!
johnboy3434
05-08-2005, 01:16 AM
Since it's always good to complement someone in your first post, and I don't see an immediate opportunity to brown-nose the webmasters, I'll go ahead by saying the following: Ripley, I love you! No one else could have put the mystical Waru to better use!
Alright, now, using the "G-C-S-N" canon method on the CW cartoon and LoE is a tad hard because they are both EU and both post-1991, giving them both a C-level officiality. Thus, since Lucas & co. have not made an official ruling on the discrepensies, it's up to us to compare the continuity problems in each and determine which one "feels" better. Okay, after milling through the problem for about two minutes, I think we can all agree that CW has more problems with it than LoE, so, if there are no objections, I think we can declare that LoE takes precedence. Any thoughts?
Sorry, if this post seems disorganized. It's my first day of summer vacation.
Ripley the Warmaster
05-08-2005, 02:30 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think we can all agree that CW has more problems with it than LoE, so, if there are no objections, I think we can declare that LoE takes precedence. Any thoughts?[/b][/quote]
<span style="color:blue">Labyrinth of Evil blew harder than a fan. CW3 is my ROTS lead-in.</span>
RollaFett
05-08-2005, 05:52 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>QUOTE
I think we can all agree that CW has more problems with it than LoE, so, if there are no objections, I think we can declare that LoE takes precedence. Any thoughts?[/b][/quote]
Yeah, I got one. I didn't read the friggin' book! And, frankly, don't plan to. My question with this thread had nothing to do with continuity, but simply whether or not season 3 of the Clone Wars series was considered canon, and if so, how high on the canon food chain?
Ripley- Although I didn't read LOE, I agree with you, the CW series is my lead-in as well.
James T. Skywalker
05-08-2005, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Ripley the Warmaster@May 7 2005, 10:30 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think we can all agree that CW has more problems with it than LoE, so, if there are no objections, I think we can declare that LoE takes precedence. Any thoughts?
<span style="color:blue">Labyrinth of Evil blew harder than a fan. CW3 is my ROTS lead-in.</span>
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
Yay. One opinion.
Next!
~JTS
DarthSolo
05-08-2005, 02:57 PM
here ya go JTS: this cartoon series was the cheesiest most non-SW thing I've ever encountered with the words "Star Wars" stamped on it -- (granted I haven't seen "Droids" or "Ewoks" or the Holiday Special or read some of the comics and lesser books). It was completely corniness. Jedi on horses? What? Come up with something a little more creative! And Yoda Knighting Anakin with his lightsaber like the Queen of England? Really people! If you have a profesional career as a profesional writer COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER THAN THAT! The action sequences are fun but unrealistic. Yah, people do some real cool stuff but its a little too much. Anakin's "trial" with those little leaches crawling on him? that is un-SW, at least the leaches part. Yeah, like one of them would crawl right over his scar and thats all. wonderous.
So, even though I havent read LoE, people with opinions I respect have said this is one of the better EU books out there. I'll go with its story any day.
Master Magnus
05-08-2005, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by James T. Skywalker+May 8 2005, 06:12 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(James T. Skywalker @ May 8 2005, 06:12 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Ripley the Warmaster@May 7 2005, 10:30 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think we can all agree that CW has more problems with it than LoE, so, if there are no objections, I think we can declare that LoE takes precedence. Any thoughts?
<span style="color:blue">Labyrinth of Evil blew harder than a fan. CW3 is my ROTS lead-in.</span>
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
Yay. One opinion.
Next!
~JTS
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
Hello! The third season of Clone Wars is not what I will consider the lead in to ROTS. LoE is a really great novel in which Palpatine shines. The CW reduces him to a cartoon character (oh, well I hope you understand what I mean). The search for Sidious in LOE which leads Dyne <div onClick="openClose('ff278c3fecffd61a6d86fc541347946c')" style="font-weight: bold">[ Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide]</div><div id="ff278c3fecffd61a6d86fc541347946c" style="display:none">to discover the truth about who Sidious really is before the moment he dies</div>, the background of general Grievous etc. is compelling, the CWIII isn't.
Ripley the Warmaster
05-08-2005, 07:01 PM
<span style="color:blue"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>LoE is a really great novel in which Palpatine shines.[/b][/quote]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The search for Sidious in LOE which leads Dyne SPOILER ...... the background of general Grievous etc. is compelling.[/b][/quote]
It would be if it wasn't written by an author who dumbs down his prose, writes massive lists that have no relevance to the story, and has no passion for writing. As long as literary trash like that is published, I'll be rating said work and treating it like it is, literary trash.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Jedi on horses? What? Come up with something a little more creative![/b][/quote]
Like using the tired and true sci-fi cliche of having jedi come in on hovercraft? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And Yoda Knighting Anakin with his lightsaber like the Queen of England? Really people! If you have a profesional career as a profesional writer COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER THAN THAT[/b][/quote]
The knighting sequence was fun to watch. What is a better idea?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The action sequences are fun but unrealistic. Yah, people do some real cool stuff but its a little too much.[/b][/quote]
Over the top battle parts were do in part to it's medium. Also, it is no worse than around 10 jedi pushing a fleet of Star Destroyers to the other side of a star system like in Darksaber.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Anakin's "trial" with those little leaches crawling on him? that is un-SW, at least the leaches part. Yeah, like one of them would crawl right over his scar and thats all. wonderous[/b][/quote]
How is leeches un-SW like? I fail to see that.
All in all, Clone Wars is a fun adventure that captures the feel of seriousness and comedy of Star Wars, which many of the novels fail. Until something better than the series comes around as a ROTS lead-in, CW3 shall be mine.</span>
Master Magnus
05-08-2005, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Ripley the Warmaster@May 8 2005, 11:01 PM
<span style="color:blue"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>LoE is a really great novel in which Palpatine shines.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The search for Sidious in LOE which leads Dyne SPOILER ......* the background of general Grievous etc. is compelling.[/b][/quote]
It would be if it wasn't written by an author who dumbs down his prose, writes massive lists that have no relevance to the story, and has no passion for writing. As long as literary trash like that is published, I'll be rating said work and treating it like it is, literary trash.
</span>
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
Trash? "No passion for writing"? That's your opinion. No offense, but I would like to see you doing a better job.
What "lists" are you referring to?
Ithorian guy
05-08-2005, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by DarthSolo@May 8 2005, 12:57 PM
here ya go JTS: this cartoon series was the cheesiest most non-SW thing I've ever encountered with the words "Star Wars" stamped on it -- (granted I haven't seen "Droids" or "Ewoks" or the Holiday Special or read some of the comics and lesser books). It was completely corniness. Jedi on horses? What? Come up with something a little more creative! And Yoda Knighting Anakin with his lightsaber like the Queen of England? Really people! If you have a profesional career as a profesional writer COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER THAN THAT! The action sequences are fun but unrealistic. Yah, people do some real cool stuff but its a little too much. Anakin's "trial" with those little leaches crawling on him? that is un-SW, at least the leaches part. Yeah, like one of them would crawl right over his scar and thats all. wonderous.
So, even though I havent read LoE, people with opinions I respect have said this is one of the better EU books out there. I'll go with its story any day.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif DS, I've never heard you be this negative about anything in the EU
LoE to me should be considered the real lead-up, since CW3 is a kid's cartoon, but i still enjoyed the series
DarthSolo
05-08-2005, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by Ithorian guy@May 8 2005, 02:25 PM
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif DS, I've never heard you be this negative about anything in the EU
LoE to me should be considered the real lead-up, since CW3 is a kid's cartoon, but i still enjoyed the series
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
well, i am, in fact, not one of those people who will eat out of lucas' hand and love absolutely everything that has "Star Wars" tagged on it. I do enjoy most of the books. maybe that's because I like reading. I do admit there is better literature out there as far as quality, but I love star wars and think that the books are good fun compelling stories. The cartoon was somewhat fun, but its cliche corniness was just too immature for me.
DarthSolo
05-08-2005, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Ripley the Warmaster@May 8 2005, 02:01 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Jedi on horses? What? Come up with something a little more creative!
Like using the tired and true sci-fi cliche of having jedi come in on hovercraft? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
[/b][/quote]
Ok, do we see horses on Coruscant in any of the movies? No? Do we see any reference to any sort of beast the Jedi ride on in any of the movies? No. The only traveling type beasts come with their certain planets because of environmental needs. On Coruscant, people use speeders. Its how that planet, and most of the galaxy works. Its not a cliche, its just how things work.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The knighting sequence was fun to watch. What is a better idea?
[/b][/quote]
Thanks for using the word "cliche" above. It fits perfectly for a Knighting ceremony. And yes, a better idea has been thougt of. Read Destiny's Way. Luke said something important and personal to each of the new knights and said something about each of their futures. There was some other symbolism etc. but it was original and not corny or cliche.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Over the top battle parts were do in part to it's medium. Also, it is no worse than around 10 jedi pushing a fleet of Star Destroyers to the other side of a star system like in Darksaber.
[/b][/quote]
Yes, a lot of that is because of the medium, which is why I am not a big fan of action cartoons. And your point about Darksaber is somewhat valid, but it was 10 Jedi and if i remember correctly some of them passed out or suffered physical effects because of the strain. Whereas some Jedi can push entire armies of battle droids in a cartoon without breaking a sweat. But, yes , alot of it is medium and I can accept that
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>How is leeches un-SW like? I fail to see that.
[/b][/quote]
did you see Yoda have snakes crawl over Luke on Dagobah, did you? This part, I guess, i did't terrible mind, but it didn't feel right to me. The over all story of the trial i didn't have a problem with, but the leach thing was just too cheese.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>All in all, Clone Wars is a fun adventure that captures the feel of seriousness and comedy of Star Wars, which many of the novels fail. Until something better than the series comes around as a ROTS lead-in, CW3 shall be mine.[/color]
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
I agree that it had a good combo of seriousness and comedy. I'll give it that. And the over all plots weren't dreadful, but I guess I just don't like the medium and some of the cliche and corny things they put in there.
Valin Kenobi
05-09-2005, 12:23 AM
^ What DarthSolo said.
From an artistic/storytelling standpoint the two things that bugged me the most were the incredibly cheesy Knighting ceremony and Palpatine's characterization (making him look like a complete idiot).
Then there's the continuity gaffes but that's an entirely different 50-gallon drum of worms....
johnboy3434
05-09-2005, 10:13 PM
Wow style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/boxed.gif , I didn't mean to stir up such a hullabaloo. I was just saying that LoE could be considered closer to canon because it had less contradictions and whatnot. However, the honest-to-God answer is that they are BOTH NON-canon. The "G-C-S-N" is a scale of CONTINUITY. While I think I made the slip-up of using canon in such a way, the fact is that something is canon or it is not, there are no levels of canon. [Edit: And no, the Sith aren't the only ones who deal in absolutes, so don't try to be a smart***] And only the movies in their most recent form (G-Level, Sublevel 1) are canon. All else is not canon, including both LoE and CW.
That said, as far as personal preference is concerned, I'm torn between the two. CW has great action and can be viewed in less time than it takes to read the book. However, LoE's plot is far superior to CW, which, honestly, has a "blow **** up" mentality. That said, my grandfather and I will still be watching CW after Episodes I and II the day before we see RotS.
Master Magnus
05-10-2005, 03:35 PM
^"Canon" and "continuity" is treated as the same thing.
Ithorian guy
05-10-2005, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by johnboy3434@May 9 2005, 08:13 PM
All else is not canon, including both LoE and CW.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
Yes they are canon, most of the EU are the C-level canon, they may not be G-level canon or movie level canon, but they are still part of the official continuity until Lucas Licensing (Lucasfilm, Lucasbooks, Lucasarts, etc.) says otherwise.
Ripley the Warmaster
05-10-2005, 08:56 PM
<span style="color:blue"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Ok, do we see horses on Coruscant in any of the movies? No? Do we see any reference to any sort of beast the Jedi ride on in any of the movies? No. The only traveling type beasts come with their certain planets because of environmental needs. On Coruscant, people use speeders. Its how that planet, and most of the galaxy works. Its not a cliche, its just how things work. [/b][/quote]
Then by that token, nothing seen in the movies doesn't work. So there goes your super brilliant blue people, bio-tech, and a host of other things.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Thanks for using the word "cliche" above. It fits perfectly for a Knighting ceremony. And yes, a better idea has been thougt of. Read Destiny's Way. Luke said something important and personal to each of the new knights and said something about each of their futures. There was some other symbolism etc. but it was original and not corny or cliche.[/b][/quote]
How is it corny? You've yet to define. I found Destiny's Way knighting to be adequate, yet that was a different time. However, I will give you the point about knighting. I don't know if it's cliche because fantasy/medeval/dark ages-esque work isn't my forte.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, a lot of that is because of the medium, which is why I am not a big fan of action cartoons. And your point about Darksaber is somewhat valid, but it was 10 Jedi and if i remember correctly some of them passed out or suffered physical effects because of the strain. Whereas some Jedi can push entire armies of battle droids in a cartoon without breaking a sweat. But, yes , alot of it is medium and I can accept that[/b][/quote]
Hmm, yet action cartoons are a lot closer to film than literature. The enjoyment comes from that fact this part of EU is closer to the original medium of Star Wars.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>did you see Yoda have snakes crawl over Luke on Dagobah, did you? This part, I guess, i did't terrible mind, but it didn't feel right to me. The over all story of the trial i didn't have a problem with, but the leach thing was just too cheese.[/b][/quote]
See the horse part. Again, why is there more cheese than a factory of it?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I agree that it had a good combo of seriousness and comedy. I'll give it that. And the over all plots weren't dreadful, but I guess I just don't like the medium and some of the cliche and corny things they put in there[/b][/quote]
Cliche and corny parts are debatable, yet the medium dislike intrigues me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The cartoon was somewhat fun, but its cliche corniness was just too immature for me[/b][/quote]
But Electrocution Death flightknife and a planet of stupid talking idiots isn't? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/butbut.gif</span>
Ripley the Warmaster
05-10-2005, 09:00 PM
<span style="color:blue"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Trash? "No passion for writing"? That's your opinion. No offense, but I would like to see you doing a better job.
What "lists" are you referring to?.[/b][/quote]
Jimmy Luceno can answer part of that for me.
Originally posted by James Luceno+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(James Luceno)</div><div class='quotemain'>Coming from a background of loud music, carpentry, and travel, I still struggle with getting myself to the word processor, and will typically place as many obstacles in my path as possible.[/b]
That clearly shows he has no passion. A person with passion for the craft would have no problem with getting to that word processor and transcribing the prose. Luceno sounded like he was writing with a person pointing a gun at him. This miserable state of writing is shown in the prose.
Originally posted by James Luceno+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(James Luceno)</div><div class='quotemain'> For the most part, my original novels are – or were, since they’re out of print[/b]
That is lack of creativity. Working virtually in another person's universe is hack work. There is not enough passion to create a new world set full of characters. Rather pathetic. Need I also bring up that Luceno writes his EU novels in a simplistic pen on purpose?
<!--QuoteBegin-James Luceno@
Whether I’m writing the major characters or creating new ones I try my best to remain loyal to Lucas’s vision, and have even simplified my native writing style for a more straight-forward one.[/quote]
Trying to make it like Lucas' vision is comedable, but insulting your reader's intelligence is not good marketing. Also, if the reader does not have the ability to read your style do to its complexity, then the reader shouldn't be reading at such an advance reading level. I do not know about you, but I dislike being served simplicity on purpose. This makes Luceno a hack until he tries going back to his more complex prose.
List wise, I'm refering to the fact we are given Raith Sienar's page and a half background when he is only mention in a sentence, the names of the campaigns Commander Cody fought in, and verious other long-winded stories that have virtually no impact on the story and breaks up the flow of the novel. He even admits it.
<!--QuoteBegin-James Luceno
I’ve also attempted to make the franchise as real as possible by referencing other sources wherever I can – sometimes to the detriment of the pacing[/quote]
This is a link to the reading level of his work. When he admits the problem and does no action, that makes him a hack. Luceno's own words certifies my opinion of his written work.
What am I doing in the literary field you ask? Well, I'm around twenty pages in on my first work, which has the working title In Service to the League, with Joy for All. It's about two rapists who are drafted into an army. It can easily be called "an alternate historical science fiction story of not so epic preportions" do to the somewhat over the top nature of it. Do to the fact I actually created a new world and new characters, that alone gives me several points in the creative field over Luceno.</span>
Oh yes, here is the interview with Luceno. (http://www.clonewarz.com/features/interviews/luceno.htm)
Master Magnus
05-11-2005, 02:33 PM
I've read that interview, but I don't draw the same conclusions you do.
DarthSolo
05-11-2005, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Ripley the Warmaster@May 10 2005, 03:56 PM
Then by that token, nothing seen in the movies doesn't work. So there goes your super brilliant blue people, bio-tech, and a host of other things.
Ok, let us look at this from another point of logic. Coruscant is a city. The entire planet is a city. It runs entirely on technology. All the travel is done by repulsor lift vehicles. It makes absolutely no snese to throw in a pack of horses. Did nobody else have a problem with this?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>How is it corny? You've yet to define. I found Destiny's Way knighting to be adequate, yet that was a different time. However, I will give you the point about knighting. I don't know if it's cliche because fantasy/medeval/dark ages-esque work isn't my forte.
[/b][/quote]
The fact that it is just like any other knighting ceremony we see in the real world and in real-world movies makes in cliche in my opinion. I did like the cutting of the braid with the lightsaber, but the shoulder to shoulder thing? Come on. Come up with something better. And Walter Jon Williams did in DW. I don't expect the cartoons to follow it exactly, but it could take a clue from it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Hmm, yet action cartoons are a lot closer to film than literature. The enjoyment comes from that fact this part of EU is closer to the original medium of Star Wars.
[/b][/quote]
Just becuase it is closer to the original medium does not make it better. It is completly different. Novels capture entire different aspects of stories than anything visual does and vice versa. I will always prefer a novel over a cartoon, simply because it is very difficult (or impossible) to capture the full circle of a character in the cartoon medium. It is even hard to do in a movie, but with good acting and good dialogue it is possible. The OT did this. The PT didn't do it quite as well IMO, but it got the job done. The novels do this. The cartoon didn't. At least not nearly as well as a novel could have.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>See the horse part. Again, why is there more cheese than a factory of it?
[/b][/quote]
I guess I just didn't buy the leach part. It wasn't at all necesary to the adequate story of the trial. It was just fluff and filler IMO. Same with the horses. It wasn't needed. It just threw me off.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Cliche and corny parts are debatable, yet the medium dislike intrigues me.
[/b][/quote]
I've explained my medium preference above.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The cartoon was somewhat fun, but its cliche corniness was just too immature for me[/b][/quote]
But Electrocution Death flightknife and a planet of stupid talking idiots isn't? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/butbut.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
If you are refering to force lightning/lightsabers and gungans as immature, you are making conlcusions i never eluded to at all. No Force lightning and lightsaber fights are not immature. THey are unrealistic to our world, but that does not make them immature. What makes something immature is when it is simply fluff and filler like the leaches and horses, or when the characters are practically 1 dimensional and none of their thoughts or motivatins can be explored adequately. It is all just eye candy. This whoe series seemed to focus on visual spectacle of cool battles and giant force pushes where it should have focused on story and character. The OT and the PT (to some extent, while yes I do think the characterization of the gungans was needless and immature and targetted at an immature audience) may have had eye catching visual "candy" but at the same time they still explored characters and plots beautifullly. It wasn't the explosions, lightsabers, Force lightning and starfighters that made me love SW. It was the characters. I loved Han Solo and CHewbacca and LUke and Leia and Wedge and Lando and all those unforgettable characters. Darth Vader and Darth Maul and Emperor Palpatine and Boba and Jango Fett are unforgettable villians. There is so much story to be told about them. And those stories have little or nothing to do with the visual effects Lucas so brilliantly puts out there. There's nothing wrong with eye candy, but it can't be the focus of a movie or a series or any sort of story-telling medium If it is, the story is immature.
Originally posted by Ripley the Warmaster+May 10 2005, 04:00 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ripley the Warmaster @ May 10 2005, 04:00 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>[color=blue]<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Trash? "No passion for writing"? That's your opinion. No offense, but I would like to see you doing a better job.
What "lists" are you referring to?.[/b]
Jimmy Luceno can answer part of that for me.
<!--QuoteBegin-James Luceno
Coming from a background of loud music, carpentry, and travel, I still struggle with getting myself to the word processor, and will typically place as many obstacles in my path as possible.[/quote]
That clearly shows he has no passion. A person with passion for the craft would have no problem with getting to that word processor and transcribing the prose. Luceno sounded like he was writing with a person pointing a gun at him. This miserable state of writing is shown in the prose.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
Defending Mr. Luceno (who I myself am not a huge fan of though i did enjoy TUF immensley) this does not show lack of passion. I too am a writer. I love writing and I have a passion for it. There is almost nothing I'd rather do than write a story or a script or a game. But, sometimes, I just can't bring myself to do it. It takes motivation and inspiration for people like me (and James Luceno it seems). That doesn't show a lack of passion. Maybe it shows a character flaw of relying on inspiration, but that is just how some people (many of the artist types like myself who become writers) are. It is impossible, IMO, for Mr. Luceno to lack passion, because a career as a novelist is not something easily attained. It is something I am working towards, but it is not at all a secure field. And if you don't love it or have a passion for it, it is something you should not pursue. The fact that he is in the business shows he has a passion for writing. Weather or not you like his work is a different issue, but it is unfair to judge his passions. Stories do not simply flow from the fingers of a profesional writer. It takes hard, tedious work, just like any other job. It takes passion to get through it, because inevitably you will bump into times when you can't pull yourself to the computer.
Valin Kenobi
05-11-2005, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Ripley the Warmaster+May 10 2005, 06:00 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ripley the Warmaster @ May 10 2005, 06:00 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-James Luceno
Coming from a background of loud music, carpentry, and travel, I still struggle with getting myself to the word processor, and will typically place as many obstacles in my path as possible.
That clearly shows he has no passion. A person with passion for the craft would have no problem with getting to that word processor and transcribing the prose. Luceno sounded like he was writing with a person pointing a gun at him. This miserable state of writing is shown in the prose.[/b][/quote]
DarthSolo already tackled this point quite well. Luceno could not have gotten this far if he did not have some passion for writing. He would have quit and gotten a "real job" that pays better.
Somewhere I saw a really good quote from an author to the effect that writing can still be hard work even for the most talented and enthusiastic writers, and anyone who thinks it is entirely fun and games doesn't know what they're talking about. For now we’ll have to settle for the following quotes I managed to unearth:
Orson Scott Card (http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/1998-07-16.shtml):
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I must warn you that writing, which is a pleasure to you now in such stolen moments as you can devote to it, becomes drudgery when it's the way you earn your daily bread. Yes, there are still good moments when you solve a particularly nasty problem in a story, or when you complete a story that you know absolutely works. But every day when you get up, writing is your duty, and that changes everything. It becomes lonely, frustrating, and it's hard to want to do it. And even when the money comes, it comes in fits and starts. You never know where the next dollar is coming from.[/b][/quote]
Mike Stackpole (http://www.stormwolf.com/data/interview.html):
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>On the most basic level, the biggest difficulty is that folks who want to write don't sit down and write. It is often said that people like "having written," but they don't like the process itself. Without the discipline to sit down and write, no advancement beyond that point is possible. Once you have something written, the biggest difficulty is getting it published. As Manly Wade Wellman always said, "Only you believe you can write. If you quit, you just make it unanimous." By hanging in the game, by still working on material and submitting it you not only get better, but you avail yourself of more chances to get published. After that point, the greatest difficulty is in not taking the risks to push yourself as a writer. You want to always force yourself to do something new, force yourself to grow and stretch for a writer. If you don't do that, you'll get stale and will eventually be forgotten as newer and hotter writers blow onto the scene.[/b][/quote]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by James Luceno+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(James Luceno)</div><div class='quotemain'> For the most part, my original novels are – or were, since they’re out of print[/b]
That is lack of creativity. Working virtually in another person's universe is hack work. There is not enough passion to create a new world set full of characters. Rather pathetic.[/b][/quote]
Actually he has written more original works than SW (though many were collaborations with Brian Daley). Then there are two other movie novelizations and a Young Indy book.
I don’t pretend to know why he hasn’t written more originals recently. For one thing, he seems plenty busy with SW.
Robotech Series (with Brian Daley, as Jack McKinney)
'Genesis' (1987)
'Battle Cry' (1987)
'Homecoming' (1987)
'Battlehymn' (1987)
'Force of Arms' (1987)
'Doomsday' (1987)
'Southern Cross' (1987)
'Metal Fire' (1987)
'The Final Nightmare' (1987)
'Invid Invasion' (1987)
'Metamorphosis' (1987)
'Symphony of Light' (1987)
'The Devil's Hand' (1988)
'Dark Powers' (1988)
'Death Dance' (1988)
'World Killers' (1988)
'Rubicon' (1988)
'The End of the Circle' (1990)
'The Zentraedi Rebellion' (1994)
'The Masters' Gambit' (1995)
'Before the Invid Storm' (1996)
The Black Hole Travel Agency (with Brian Daley, as Jack McKinney)
'Event Horizon' (1991)
'Artifact of the System' (1991)
'Free Radicals' (1992)
'Hostile Takeover' (1994)
'A Fearful Symmetry' (1989)
'Illegal Alien' (1990)
'The Big Empty' (1993)
'Kaduna Memories' (1990)
'Rio Pasion'
'Rainchaser'
'Rock Bottom'
'The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles: The Mata Hari Affair'
'The Shadow' - movie novelisation
'The Mask of Zorro' - movie novelisation
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>List wise, I'm refering to the fact we are given Raith Sienar's page and a half background when he is only mention in a sentence, the names of the campaigns Commander Cody fought in, and verious other long-winded stories that have virtually no impact on the story and breaks up the flow of the novel. He even admits it.
<!--QuoteBegin-James Luceno
Ok, let us look at this from another point of logic. Coruscant is a city. The entire planet is a city. It runs entirely on technology. All the travel is done by repulsor lift vehicles. It makes absolutely no snese to throw in a pack of horses. Did nobody else have a problem with this?[/quote]
*raises hand* It did kind of bug me, but not as much as it does you apparently. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif On my extensive list of beefs with Season III, this is near the bottom.
DarthSolo
05-11-2005, 09:57 PM
well at least im not the only one.
Master Magnus
05-12-2005, 12:37 PM
^No, I'm fully behind you on that one.
johnboy3434
05-12-2005, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by Ithorian guy@May 10 2005, 03:10 PM
Yes they are canon, most of the EU are the C-level canon, they may not be G-level canon or movie level canon, but they are still part of the official continuity until Lucas Licensing (Lucasfilm, Lucasbooks, Lucasarts, etc.) says otherwise.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
Yes, but I'm using the terms properly. Yes, according to Lucas' terminology, it is "canon." However, canon, by its REAL definition, has no levels. Canon deals in absolutes. Something either is canon or isn't. No levels of authority, no official rulings on contradictions, END OF STORY. While it isn't the perfect term to use, the levels of "canon" by which we judge what "really" happened in the GFFA is closer to the definition of "continuity." Thus, my differentiation of the two, which was based on their definitions rather than their interchangable use by Lucas and company. Sorry if I seem standoffish, but little things like that annoy me. I'm just kinda quirky like that style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif .
However, on a positive note, regardless of what you may call it, I am delighted to see someone actually DEFEND the "G-C-S-N" scale. Those idiots over at GameFAQs have given me nightmares with all their mindless blabbings of "EU never happened because only the movies are canon!" While I agree with their statement of only the movies being canon, to simply TOSS OUT almost 30 years worth of writing that has made us appreciate the GFFA so much more is intellectually dishonest if not totally asinine. Would a few of you mind going over there and beating them up for me style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif ?
Valin Kenobi
05-12-2005, 09:29 PM
I don't even bother with those debates. For me there are only two levels
1a) Film canon
1b) EU canon
(as a hard-core EU nerd I consider EU canon just as "real" as film canon, but sometimes it's helpful to make a distinction)
2) Apocrypha, Infinities
This way an item is either full canon or 0% canon. So much easier. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
P.S.: Welcome to the boards, johnboy3434. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
DarthSolo
05-12-2005, 10:25 PM
that's the same way i look at it, but when there are little things I go to the GCSN form.
Bretsch
05-13-2005, 07:24 PM
I don't think it is canon, but it shure is fun.
Ithorian guy
05-13-2005, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Valin Kenobi@May 12 2005, 07:29 PM
as a hard-core EU nerd I consider EU canon just as "real" as film canon<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
Amen to that, brother
Ripley the Warmaster
05-15-2005, 04:48 AM
<span style="color:blue"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>DarthSolo already tackled this point quite well. Luceno could not have gotten this far if he did not have some passion for writing. He would have quit and gotten a "real job" that pays better.[/b][/quote]
George Lucas is a very successful writer who hates writing. Don't think "he writes means he must passion for writing." That is false.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Somewhere I saw a really good quote from an author to the effect that writing can still be hard work even for the most talented and enthusiastic writers, and anyone who thinks it is entirely fun and games doesn't know what they're talking about. For now we’ll have to settle for the following quotes I managed to unearth:[/b][/quote]
I'm not saying writing is easy work. I agree with you that anyone who thinks writing is all fun and games is a fool. However, his procedure shows a lack of passion in comparsion to other authors. Luceno is finally at the word processor at 1 PM when others had already done ten pages by noon. Does Luceno have a lot passion about writing? Maybe, but he has a very odd way of showing it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Actually he has written more original works than SW (though many were collaborations with Brian Daley). Then there are two other movie novelizations and a Young Indy book.[/b][/quote]
Thank you for giving that list, once again proving he's a hack. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think he has made progress in this department. I'll be the first to say the massive referencing in Agents of Chaos was completely out of hand. Each reference was like being beat over the head with the Obvious Stick. But with Cloak of Deception and later works he's much better at integrating other material more subtly[/b][/quote].
Yes, Cloak of Deception is the one novel he does it the least, but it's poorly penned. Labyrinth of Evil has him reverting back to his listing that are as subtle as elephant at a glass house.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Just becuase it is closer to the original medium does not make it better. It is completly different. Novels capture entire different aspects of stories than anything visual does and vice versa. I will always prefer a novel over a cartoon, simply because it is very difficult (or impossible) to capture the full circle of a character in the cartoon medium. It is even hard to do in a movie, but with good acting and good dialogue it is possible. The OT did this. The PT didn't do it quite as well IMO, but it got the job done. The novels do this. The cartoon didn't. At least not nearly as well as a novel could have.[/b][/quote]
First, Star Wars is a visual experence besides a story. Anyone saying to the contrary is false. This transition to the novel form is clunky at times do to the massive descriptions that have to go into the medium change. That is why the cartoons and comics are vastly superior. It's transition is slicker.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If you are refering to force lightning/lightsabers and gungans as immature, you are making conlcusions i never eluded to at all. No Force lightning and lightsaber fights are not immature. THey are unrealistic to our world, but that does not make them immature. What makes something immature is when it is simply fluff and filler like the leaches and horses, or when the characters are practically 1 dimensional and none of their thoughts or motivatins can be explored adequately. It is all just eye candy. This whoe series seemed to focus on visual spectacle of cool battles and giant force pushes where it should have focused on story and character. The OT and the PT (to some extent, while yes I do think the characterization of the gungans was needless and immature and targetted at an immature audience) may have had eye catching visual "candy" but at the same time they still explored characters and plots beautifullly. It wasn't the explosions, lightsabers, Force lightning and starfighters that made me love SW. It was the characters. I loved Han Solo and CHewbacca and LUke and Leia and Wedge and Lando and all those unforgettable characters. Darth Vader and Darth Maul and Emperor Palpatine and Boba and Jango Fett are unforgettable villians. There is so much story to be told about them. And those stories have little or nothing to do with the visual effects Lucas so brilliantly puts out there. There's nothing wrong with eye candy, but it can't be the focus of a movie or a series or any sort of story-telling medium If it is, the story is immature[/b][/quote].
Chapters 1-20 is akin to a pilot episode. See if people liked the beginning. That's why 21-25 are longer, to have more character moments. For have the time restriction, it did it brilliantly. Since we are getting two tele shows, the story can be fully explored more to your liking. Is that ok kaiser?</span>
DarthSolo
05-15-2005, 05:57 PM
Did you just call me 'kaiser'? Why? Is it some sort of insult? In any case, it doesn't matter if it is ok with me, because it will happen anyway and i will most likely watch and critique whatever is put out there. And, btw, you didn't address the post you quoted at all. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>First, Star Wars is a visual experence besides a story.[/b][/quote]
All movies, novels, cartoons, comics should be a story first and a visual experience second. IMO, the CW cartoon failed at this in many instances. In some, it did a decent job.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>This transition to the novel form is clunky at times do to the massive descriptions that have to go into the medium change. That is why the cartoons and comics are vastly superior. It's transition is slicker.[/b][/quote]
Yes, the transition is slicker, but that doesn't make it better. When it comes to novelizations of movies, I usually like the movie better, simply because it is truer. But as far as a book vs. a cartoon with their own original stories, I'll take a book any day. It explores the characters and situations more fully, and -- at least in the case of the CW cartoon -- gives a feeling that I can take more seriously. Not just shallow entertainment, but something I can dig my teeth into, something I can get more attached to and involved in.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>George Lucas is a very successful writer who hates writing. Don't think "he writes means he must passion for writing." That is false. [/b][/quote]
possibly, but GL also has a career as a director and producer. That is his career, and writing is something he does to tell his stories. His passion is telling the stories by writing, directing etc. Luceno chose not to be a director or producer. He chose to be a writer, which is a very unstable field. you don't just wake up one morning and say "I want to write books" and start doing it. It takes a while to get published and well known, a lot of tedious work. Probably a lot of jobs as a waiter. If you don't have passion for writing, you simply aren't going to go through that process.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Luceno is finally at the word processor at 1 PM when others had already done ten pages by noon. Does Luceno have a lot passion about writing? Maybe, but he has a very odd way of showing it.[/b][/quote]
First, if you are getting the 1 PM time from a quote or something, it very likely was just an example of what sometimes happens, to all authors! some more than others possibly. And even if Luceno doesn't start till 1 PM, how do we know he doesn't write till midnight when the rest quit at 5?
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