Ongoing Topic: Sorting the Rumours

[Lonesabre]

A lot of rumours are floating around about the plotlines for Episode 3. I want to get them into some sort of order that they are going to happen in the film. For a starting point, I believe that to fit in everything that needs to be included, the film will be a whopping three hours long! So lets see if we can get some sort of an order into what is going to happen...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif *:mad: *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[JediBendu]

perhaps we could petition a permanent post with all the viable plot scenarios. Updated once a week by an Administrator or something.
It would be a shame to loose some of this speculation. :angry:

[Lonesabre]

Nice idea! But I am fairly new to this site and my knowledge is fairly limited of how it works.

Any ideas just let me know!

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[Jedi Master Gandalf]

Lucas just released a statement tonight:

"Boba WILL be in Episode III, but his role definitely won’t be larger. He’s in a transition period of becoming a bounty hunter. The next film takes place two or three years later, so Boba would only be 13 and still wouldn’t fit in the suit."

"The scene where Anakin does actually become Vader is pretty good [as written in Lucas’ Episode III outline]. I mean, I like it. It’s a little in the vocabulary of…I don’t know how much I want to give away…but it’s in the vocabulary of a time – of the 1930s and 1940s. It’s a pretty neat little thing, I think, and hopefully it’s going to work."

[Will we see more of Anakin or Darth Vader in Episode III]
"It’s mostly Anakin."

[Martini]

Yea that blows that he said "mostly anakin". figured GL would find a way to mess up this trilogy. and by NOT adding alot of darth vader, he's completed f**ked up these movies.

however, im even gonna disagree with GL. He has only written a draft. i dont even think he knows what is going to happen completely in EPISODE III. also dont forget that james earl jones has done or is going to do 15 minutes of dialogue. thats about 1/2 a movies length for darth vader. i STILL THINK its gonna be half anakin and half vader movie.


question::: whats everyone think about that 1930s and 40s thing?

[Jedi Master Gandalf]

Wow, you really thought those comments through, didn't you, Martini?

You're going to disagree with GL??? He's the one who's writing the friggin' thing!!!

And no, GL has not f---ed up this trilogy. How could you say that? You don't even know what he has in mind yet.

[JediBendu]

It's theoretically impossible for GL to f*ck up his own trilogy - it's his so if he's happy then it isn't f*cked up.
Now if Steven Spielberg came and re-did them, that would be a f*ck up.
To Martini
30's and 40's is probably referring to the film noir style which typified film making during that era. An example of it in ATOC is the opening bedroom shots. The shadow of the blinds on the back wall (especially when padme sits up) had to be artificially created ie there was no moon in the background to generate any real light through any real blinds. This is kinda obvious now with the cg world, but back in the dim dark past, all shots had to be meiticulously constructed as they were all done on sets. The Maltese Falcon would be a good example.
Ridley Scott was also a proponent of it in Blade Runner.
or something ???

[Jedi Master Gandalf]

Well, GL said, "vocabulary", so I'm guessing its in the way they speak; the dialogue in the scene. It may be similar to dialogue in 1930-40's film.

[JediBendu]

ya
the script was always concise, minimal character exposition. It's purpose was to guide the story, rather than be a focus itself - sound familiar?

[Martini]

Jedi master gandalf and all the others who feel like this trilogy is just as good as the last one are all smoking crack and feel like everything GL does is golden. well i got news for you blind jedi dorks, alot of people dont like these new films he's making. WAKE UP!!! and who gives a f**k if he's happy with his movies, thats not what matters. people make movies to please others. if he made these movies or wrote these stories to be happy about himself, the he would have never released them to the public. Also Gandalf and everyone else, just cause GL says something now about the movie doesnt mean its going to happen or that he wont change it. He plays with everyones minds anyway. He's told us that he is getting 15 minutes of dialogue from JEJ then he comes out and says that Anakin will be most of the movie. Then i guess this movie will be over 3 hours long cause those two things contradict each other. I feel that he has lost this good Star Wars feeling after TESB.

Like last night I was watching TPM with the audio commentary for the first time and its just pathetic how all they care about is woeing the audience with great special effects that sometimes arent that great but other times are amazing. Just look how the very first 2 star wars movies were more surrounded around good vs evil and had basic good action plots. Once GL started with this whole ROTJ, TPM, and AOTC crap, he began to go off on tagents with story and focus too much on leading up to an over the top action sequence that finished off the movie.

I guess sometimes i get a little peeved at GL cause i feel like he wont EVER be able to match his success with the story of TESB. I'm hoping that he can bring out the anger and evilness of Anakin in this next movie. And i feel like if he wants to do this, half the movie should be about his downfall and the other half should be about Vader kicking everyones ass.

[Lonesabre]

GOOD VERSES EVIL...

Thats what its all about in the end isnt it?

Thats what Georgie should've kept as his primary target in ALL of his films.

One of the things that bugged me the most about TPM was that it just seemed that everything got moving in the SW universe by a stupid trade embargo.

Anyway thats done and dusted now...

GOOD VERSES EVIL...

Read my comment on the Classisc Trilogy "PADME in ROTJ" thread to discover how I think George can bring back the PT, to its roots...

ULTIMATE GOOD VERSES ULTIMATE EVIL...

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[Darth Enkidu]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

Martini, Martini, Martini...

I have noticed a definate trend in your posts... Full of anger and aggression are you... on the path to the dark side you tred...

[JediBendu]

ya
in defence of gandalf, everything GL touches is golden by the very fact that HE touches it. HE created this universe we are now in. HE went through living hell to get the original made. HE pumped millions back into the franchise when he could have gone off to an island somewhere and retired. HE formed the sound, animation and special effects houses that are now involved in the majority of all holywood productions. HE made the decision to invest his own money into making Phantom. HE weathered the criticisms of wining fans and movie nazis who compared it to a standard of today's film, which HE had a hand in creating.
Now finally, HE has created a totally trancedant Star Wars experience, using all the tools, techniques and resources that are willingly supplied by people who are trying to thank him for the experience.
HE is George Lucas.

[Lonesabre]

I agree with jedibendu, what George wants is the law and no matter how much we grumble, thats just the way it is!

In fact another title could've been GEORGE LUCAS' STARWARS UNIVERSE coz thats exactly what it is!

:doze:

[DarthLestat]

Uh guys, the rumours? In Order? Anybody?

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Gandalf@June 25 2002 - 23:55
Well, GL said, "vocabulary", so I'm guessing its in the way they speak; the dialogue in the scene. It may be similar to dialogue in 1930-40's film.
Maybe he's refering to the "cinematic vocabulary" of the time (i.e. the 1930's-40's); which could, technically, even include the dialogue?

[jainawho]

When I read that quote about the 1930's and 1940's, the first thing that popped into my head was Hitler. I have always thought that Vader and Palpy are similar to Hitler. They wipe out the Jedi, as Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both governments turn into a dictatorship. Both have it in their heads that they are going to take over the world/galaxy, and no one is going to stop them. Both are ruthless and have no love for anyone. And both took over their government slowly, convincing everyone they were doing the right thing. (That last point is a little more complicated, I know)

I know he said vocabulary, but perhaps he means "Hile Hitler/Vader". I also imagine scenes where Vader and Palpy are standing on a balcony, and stormtroopers are marching past, turning their heads and saluting as they pass the balcony, as seen in films from the Hitler era. How about big bonfires of burning books - maybe burning Jedi records and artifacts? I know this is horrible, but what about poisoning the Jedi in a big room, with Boba Fett and Vader at the controls? Sure, Jedi can hold their breath for extended periods of time, but not forever. This would be an easier way for GL to show the death of the Jedi, instead of an all-out slaughter, especially for the children.

I guess we have to wait a few more years to find out. :unhappy: Until then, I will continue rereading my SW books.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Martini@June 25 2002 - 13:27
Yea that blows that he said "mostly anakin". *figured GL would find a way to mess up this trilogy. and by NOT adding alot of darth vader, he's completed f**ked up these movies. *
Vader's in ANH, ESB, and ROTJ. It's Anakin that needs screen time. What's important is how Anakin became Vader, and that's what we'll be seeing. There's nothing f**ked up about that.

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by jainawho@June 30 2002 - 19:40
When I read that quote about the 1930's and 1940's, the first thing that popped into my head was Hitler.
Really? I wasn't sure what to think, at first.

Since I've had time to think about it, however, I realize that I see the '1930's-40's' in terms of Classic Horror flicks; and I envision the final phase of the transformation from Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader (i.e. the donning of 'the suit' ) taking place in a huge, dark, frightening Frankenstein-style laboratory, with all kinds of machinery, and live electricity flowing about in the open(i.e. the visual 'vocabulary' of the Horror genre at that point in time).

Who knows, maybe what he's talking about encompasses both/all of our ideas? That would be cool... if he can pull it off.

[DarthKueller]

Well I see Lucas has fuc*ed up yet another Star Wars film by saying we'll see Anakin most of the movie and very little of Vader.

Again if this occurs a lot of people are going to be disappointed and a lot of the saga between EIII and EIV will remain open and in question which is just sad and pathetic.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by DarthKueller@July 01 2002 - 15:23
Again if this occurs a lot of people are going to be disappointed and a lot of the saga between EIII and EIV will remain open and in question which is just sad and pathetic.
How is that? The big question is how Anakin became Vader. You know Lucas won't skip over that, so what major question would remain open? It makes sense that Anakin wouldn't turn until the latter half of the movie, because there has to be some build-up to the moment. It can't just happen. So in that sense, Anakin will have more screen time. Like I said before, we shouldn't be concerned about Vader's screen-time, because he more than gets that in the original trilogy. The important part is seeing how Vader's created.

[DarthLestat]

I would have thought that Anakin becomes Vader after Obi-Wan kicks his ass, and surely that's going to be towards the end of the movie...so far more Anakin than Vader.

[Lonesabre]

I think that it depends on what you call Vader.

I mean, I think that Anakin will be seduced by the darkside, around about the middle of the film and will then be called "Darth Vader". Later in the film he will have a battle with Kenobi, who probably senses the good still in him, to try and turn him back. He will fail and Anakin will be mortally wounded and have to wear the breathing apparatus we are familiar with and therefore for the remaining 15-20 minutes we will see the Vader we all know and... erm love?

By the way, a small thought...

Sideous and Maul may well have been their names but does anyone know or presume where the titles Tyrannus and Vader actually come from???

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[Lonesabre]

I was just flicking through my old Starwars Magazines, issue 12 of the UK edition. In it there is a reference to a script treatment for episode 3 written in 1983 by John L Flynn.

It is not official but it does have most of the major characters and some educated guess to new characters - Lady Arcadia Skywalker anyone???

It used to be posted on www.jedinet.com/prequels/script.txt but is now no longer there, obviously. I used to have a hard copy but it has since been lost.

Does anyone have any idea what Im on about and does anyone know where I can find it??? It was very interesting!!!



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[DarthLestat]

Good point Lonesabre...the Vader I mean is the man in the black armour. I don't think Anakin'll be known as Darth Vader until the time he is behind the mask, it just seems to me that his identity is unknown to the general population of the Empire in the OT. Well, we'll know for sure in a couple of years.

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@July 02 2002 - 15:37
Lady Arcadia Skywalker anyone???
Perhaps the forerunner of Senator Padme Amidala (Skywalker)???

[JediBendu]

The length of time Vader's on screen in ep3 would be just enough to establish the character for ep4. He would need to be shown as pretty blood thirsty in his killing but not necessarily the amount of his killing. I'd say if the movie's 3hrs long then 20min screen time

[Lonesabre]

So anyone got any ideas where I can find a copy of that fake script treatment? TEEK?? ANYONE???

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[Lonesabre]

Ok so no ones got any idea where I can get that script? So I'll move on...

Ok, Sorting the Rumours:

A Long time ago in a galaxy far far away...

STARWARS EPISODE III: A FALL OF SHADOWS {Yeah I know, damn fine title aint it?}


So, any one got any idea what the star crawl might say that will fill us in on what weve missed in the presumed two year gap....?

Come on we can do this! *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

[Zane Marit]

Originally posted by jainawho@June 30 2002 - 19:40
When I read that quote about the 1930's and 1940's, the first thing that popped into my head was Hitler. I have always thought that Vader and Palpy are similar to Hitler. They wipe out the Jedi, as Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both governments turn into a dictatorship. Both have it in their heads that they are going to take over the world/galaxy, and no one is going to stop them. Both are ruthless and have no love for anyone. And both took over their government slowly, convincing everyone they were doing the right thing. (That last point is a little more complicated, I know)

I know he said vocabulary, but perhaps he means "Hile Hitler/Vader". I also imagine scenes where Vader and Palpy are standing on a balcony, and stormtroopers are marching past, turning their heads and saluting as they pass the balcony, as seen in films from the Hitler era. How about big bonfires of burning books - maybe burning Jedi records and artifacts? *I know this is horrible, but what about poisoning the Jedi in a big room, with Boba Fett and Vader at the controls? Sure, Jedi can hold their breath for extended periods of time, but not forever. This would be an easier way for GL to show the death of the Jedi, instead of an all-out slaughter, especially for the children.

I guess we have to wait a few more years to find out. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif Until then, I will continue rereading my SW books.
I don't think GL would go the Hitler path...Maybe if Speilberg were to do it, he would. But I just don't think GL will. And I am quite certain that we will not see the Jedi children at all. Because if we do, then he will have to find a way to "remove" them...and there really is no way to do that nicely. Besides, we know some of the Jedi escape into hiding. Just because they are not mentioned in the original trilogy does not mean they were executed style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

But you are right...3 more years and we will know all... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[Zane Marit]

This is how I see EP3 turning out...

Clone Wars will probably still be going on. Kenobi and Anakin will find out more about Palp/Sideous controlling the Senate and will confront him. Dooku will be there and act as Palps protector. Palp will twist Anikin into using his agression to overpower and defeat Dooku(you know he has to go somehow).

Kenobi witnesses this and tries to calm Ani down but it is too late. Kenobi must escape to inform the Jedi council of Anikins conversion. Amidala is preparing to give birth to the TWINS and the council must decide how to hide them without Anikin knowing they are being born. The council gets Bail Organa to take Amidala with Leia to Alderaan, and Kenobi will take Luke to Owen and Beru.

When Kenobi returns the "Purge" will begin (Possibly Kenobi will not even be present during the purge staying on Tatooine) Anikin starts his assualt on the Jedi and I believe that Yoda (Possibly Mace) will be the reason Vader ends up in the Armor. Most of JEJ's dialogue as Vader will be about his allegiance to Palpy and the riddance of the Jedi.

Any remaining Jedi will now be going into hiding and Vader will be charged with finding whomever he can and eliminating them. There will be very few laughs in this one...Most likely the last scenes will be of C3PO and R2 getting memory wipes and being sold.

[sithwitch]

It makes sense that Anakin would give in to his hate to kill Tyranus and then face ObiWan, who senses he has lost his apprentice to the Dark Side and must "Save" him or kill him. A duel to the death and relgious metaphor: Good Vs. Evil all tidily tucked into one volcanic climax!

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by sithwitch@July 09 2002 - 20:53
:::How much more blatant must Lucas be when the bad guys are named Nute GunRay and Lott Dodd?
That's so ridiculous. Gunray and Dodd are the 'bad guys'?

When even I know that they're all being controlled by the same guy who's controlling Mikhail Gorbo... Vladmir Puti...I mean Count Dooku? (what's his name, again?)

BTW, What faction of the 'Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy' does Palptine/Sidious represent?

(P.S.: I am (or, rather, prior to 9/11, "was") rather fond of conspiracy theories... I want to hear about the more believeble conspiracy theories; like the Clones are actually Illegal aliens from Mexico (since all those 'activists' thought so, what with Jango being so 'dark', and 'obviously Mexican', and all), and Palpatine (Bush/"Skull & Bones"/Sith Lord) is letting them into the Republic (A.K.A. the U.S.A.) to conquer the Separatists (Democrats). However, Palpatine's Grand Scheme will ulitmately fail, when the Separatists (Dempcrats) finally convince (as was expected) all the Clones to vote for Count Dooku/Daschle/Cos Daschit (a fallen Jedi and *Sith Lord).)

Somehow, don't see that last bit as happening in Ep.III... *

But, maybe "...in a galaxy way, way to freakin' close for comfort!!!"

ROFL

[Zane Marit]

Hunh???? ???

[Lucas]

Why does everyone here insist on knowing everything about EPIII? I mean, movies are made to entertain... how does knowing the whole plot by 2005 going to make the movie any more entertaining? It can only make it less. Here's an idea.

Drop the SW fandom spoiler-rumor stuff and go get a life until 2005. Then in '05 you'll know exactly what happens and it will all be revealed for the first time with all the great JW music and plot twists, lightsaber duels, etc. and it will make for a better movie! It's only a about 2 hours people! Do you REALLY want to know it all now?

I gurantee someone here at JN or *** some other SW website whose initials are probably forbidden here *** will have the whole thing figured out by a few months before it comes out. Maybe, probably... even sooner. I don't understand how it can't ruin the movie for you people?

[Zane Marit]

Gee Lucas...you're right...OK everybody. Lets close shop and not look at anything SW related. We can all move up to Alaska and live in Igloos until 2005.

I am sooo glad to have Lucas here to tell us how to live... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[Lord_Floyd]

Thats it Lucas, let your anger flow... give in to the hate... make you powerful it will.

[Javen]

WOW Now I am inspired.Thank you Lucas I have come to my senses and will never be here again.RIGHT!!

[Lucas]

LOL. I'm so sorry people. I know that came off bad. I just avoid most spoilers myself because I believed it ruined TPM for me. Not that TPM was not ruined in the first place.

Anyway... just spread'n my stupid opinion. That's the last of it.

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Zane Marit@July 10 2002 - 14:32
Hunh???? ???
I was just commenting on that new article @ SithWitch.com...

Sorry for the confusion. :D

[echoseven]

The Mask has nothing to do with the name Darth Vader. Does Dooku wear a mask? How about Darth Maul? Anakin/Vader wears the mask because he has to. I agree completely with Lonesaber. Anakin will turn to the dark side and take the name Darth Vader. He will probably dress like the artwork that can be seen on the official site. Ben will try to turn him back to the light side as Luke does later, but Ben fails and Vader is wounded so severly that he must wear the suit and mask for life support.

I don't mean to offend any one, but some of you have these ideas of what MUST be and I don't think it's going to happen that way. The mask doesn't make Vader, Dooku probably won't die on Dagobah. Why do so many people want to see that any way. That sucks. Anakin will most certianly kill Dooku just as Luke was expected to kill Vader. The movies follow a very predictable pattern. Everyone assumes Windu will be killed by Boba Fett. I doubt that very seriously. Mace will die by either Vader's or Yoda's hand. (I say that because I think Mace will probably end up a traitor). Boba has always been a very minor player. And why does Vader have to be in most of the movie? I want to see Anakin turn and why he does. The climax of the movie will probably be when Darth Vader in the Armor is revealed. Usually... the climax does not occur until near the end of movies.
Some of you sound like winey cry babies who are not very realistic.

And Finally!!
To all the people who think GL has ruined the PT. DON'T Watch them. I enjoy all of the Star Wars movies for what they are. To me, there is not much difference between the OT and the PT except for the technology issue and GL planned that out pretty well it seems. The way each PT movie has panned out so far has mirrored the OT in too many ways to name.

Lighten up people. If you don't like Star Wars, go to the Rugrats message boards.

[Rinc]

Heres what i believe will happen in ep3;

The Clone Wars will be coming to the end. The jedi have been directing the republic army, leading them, being in charge of tactics as well as acting as small squads (kinda like the SAS). By ep3 a lot will already be dead.

The Clone Wars come to an end, Palps keeps emergency powers and continues to hunt down other people he believes are evil. The jedi will suspect him of not being all he cracked up to be.

Padme is already pregnant but Anakin doesn't know.

Anakin has helped in the clone wars but he is mentally unstable and OBW fears for him. Anakin is very close to Palps.

Yoda and co. discover Palps' true identity but by this point he is a hero to the people and has the might of propaganda behind him. The jedi are anounced outlaws with evidence it was they who built the clones in the first place.

Dooku tries to take out Palps but Anakin is there. Palps pretends to be dying so Anakin steps in, destroys Dooku and completes his journey to the darkside.

The jedi go into hiding and the jedi purge begins. A new sith lord, Darth Vader, hunts them down. He meets Mace and reveals himself as Anakin, he kills Mace.

OBW knows Anakin still has some good in him and goes to Coruscant to find him. They have a showdown, possibly near some hot pans i mean lava, or in the crumbling surroundings of the jedi temple. OBW defeats him and it looks like Anakin is dead.

OBW goes to Yoda and Padme and Padme has twins. They are hidden with their trusted ally Bail Organa and the place where Anakin would never return to - the Lars homestead, Tatooine.

The true Darth Vader is born and Palpatine declares himself as Emperor.


Although there are still things wrong with this. It reveals that Anakin and Vader are the same person and therefore Vader is Lukes dad. It also doesn't allow Yoda to kick some serious butt. Anymore ideas?

[Javen]

LUKE: How did my father die?



BEN: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he

turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi

Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all

but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.


Everyone has this idea that Darth Vader all by himself hunts down all the Jedi and kills them.Take a look at what Obi Wan says its says that he HELPED the Empire do it.So I believe in between EP3 and 4 it happens and doesnt happen on screen.
Anakin will probably turn to Vader in the last 5 minutes of EP3.

[DarthLestat]

After watching the OT again, I don't believe it is generally known that Vader and Anakin are one and the same, the Skywalker name didnt seem to raise any eyebrows anyway. So, I don't believe Anakin will become known as Darth Vader until after the armour is on. Saying that, Anakin could be projecting a reasonable face to the Republic while alreading going about his business for Palpatine for part of the movie, usuing the Vader name like Dooku uses Tyrannus, unknown and behind the scenes. A 'Phantom', if you will style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.gif

[qui-riv-brid]

To Lonesabre the place to find that script by Flynn
Fall of the republic *is at
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/1064/wars999.txt (http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/1064/wars99.txt)
it is located at a site called joblo scripts.

[Polunis]

I think people are reading too much into SW this time; if GL is taking cheap shots at Republicans, shame on him. :mad:

[qui-riv-brid]

I'll try that again the link on my previous post won't add an extra 9.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/1064/wars999.txt

This will take you to Fall of the Republic by John Flynn.

[Lonesabre]

Absolutely fantastic!

How did you find this? I suggest some of you have read of this, it is soooooooooo weird!!!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bigsmile.gif :bigsmile: :bigsmile:

[DarthLestat]

Well done for finding this treatment! It's strange indeed....

[Polunis]

It sounds genuine, but I don't think it will be exactly like that. I think it would work as a compelling plot, however. Who do you think Prince Valarium is? I don't think it could be Darth Tyranus.

[jinn katran]

I have a few of my own ideas for episode III. Frist of all Anakin
will have to fight Dooku before he turns. This will help led up to the fight with Obi-Wan. And of course that will put him in the Vader suit. This will happen half way through the movie. Anakin knows that Padme is pregent with Luke but knows nothing of Leia. The Twins are born and Padme leaves with Leia to hind om Alderaan. Were they live until Padme dies. Vader knowing of Lukes brith goes after him but meets up with Mace Windu. At the end of this battle Mace is dead and Vader has lost Obi-Wan's and Luke's trail. The last secene in the movie will be Obi-Wan giveing the Lar's Luke and walking off into the desert to watch after Luke.

[Polunis]

Jinn katran, I like your little summary; I think it would work well. I also thought that Anakin will fight Obi-Wan before he fights Darth Tyranus; I think it would be pretty neat to see the "Iron Lung" vs. "The Geezer". style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif :lol:

[Foozbond]

Going back to the trilogy being messed up if Anakin isn't Vader half of Episode III. I wouldn't be surprised if Vader is in it for only a couple of minutes. Remember in RotJ, Vader only becomes Anakin for a few seconds and no one whined about it! I mean, I am pretty sure that he'll be Vader for atleast 15 minutes or so but think of it like this. Lucas says he was originally going to make this all one big long movie, obviously cutting some things out, until he realized there was to much and he had to make it into 6 movies. He says he always had the new triligoy in mind but never knew if he was going to make it. Anyway, GL says he thinks of it still as one very long movie. If you think of it like that, the way it is SUPPOSED to be thought of as, then Anakin IS Vader for half of the movie, which is what those few people really wanted. Just stating my opinion though, I don't think it would be messed up at all no matter what Lucas does, even though the Phantom Menace wasn't excellent, it wasn't horrible and I think that one director making 4 movies about the same thing that people REALLY love would be enough, 5 would be better, but 4 enough. Other than the 007 series, and possibly Indiana Jones in a few years, I dont think it's ever been done before. And it is proven that the majority of people, AND movie reviewers liked all 5 episodes. Fewer disliked them. And one more thing, GL says he doesn't give a darn if the people like the movies, or what they think should be in them. It is what HE wants in them, he isn't going to change anything just for the audience's pleasure, he's going to tell the story the way it should be told and that is that.

[Martini]

Your so pathetic if you think whatever George Lucas does is golden. Cuase everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect. I could have a good story to tell but everyone else might think it sucks. so why tell it? exactly! and im sure he does care what people think, cause if he pleases the crowd moreso, then that means more money in his pocket. also, if he was going it for himself, why would he film them and release them. your pathetic to think he's god. yea i liked all 5 movies, but each one has its flaw. but thats ok, your not suppose to like every detail

and why does the 6 movies have to be half and half of anakin and vader. who made that rule up. and no one cared that Anakin was only in about 5 mins of ROTJ because no one really knew who he was. Well now we know who both are and we want to see some goddamn Darth Vader kicking some jedi ass. The audience wants to see that evil Darth Vader being like he was to luke in TESB but just on a greater scale and to more people (jedis).

he has to bring back James Earl Jones for voicing half the movie. i think he already has done alot of dialogue for the movie or is going to soon. so there!

[Foozbond]

Okay, first off, when did I say that Lucas was God? *Secondly, if it is a good story to tell, why would everyone think it sucks? *Also, I never said what he has does not have any mistakes, I said if he is happy with the final result, it doesn't matter. *He does it because he likes the idea of a galaxy far far away. *He releases it, obviously, because the actors would be ticked if he didn't. *And he wanted to see how it would do out there. *Since it did absolutely wonderful, he's releasing them all because everyone wants to see exactly what happens, even if we already have the general idea. *Next, I said the thing about half Anakin half Vader because thats what people were complaining about earlier in this forum. *And I'm sure we'll see enough Vader beating on Jedis, the Yoda fight in AotC wasn't long and people still loved it, we will be satisfied! *Lastly why does he HAVE to bring back James Earl Jones of half of the movie?

[Foozbond]

I mean, of course he wants the money, but he doesn't care what the critics think about his movies, he doesn't care what the audience wants in the next movie. He has it all planned out and he isn't going to change any of it for the audience. Either way they are going to come see it and theres nothing anyone can do about that, so either way he is rich.

[Javen]

Why see Vader?Weve already seen him.I dont want to and I hope that he is in it from maybe 5 to 15 minutes and thats it.
It would not make a bit of sense to see him in EP3 for 2 hours
that would ruin it for me.SW is alot more than just seeing Vader anyways.

[Mann]

I heard that the choreographer for the lightsaber battles say that he was doing the "final duel" between Anakin and OBi-wan. Do you think that they'll be more than one?

[Martini]

Well Lucas does get weak from time to time. He went with the audience on the Bounty Hunter thing, he even said he wanted more lightsaber scenes and multiple lightsaber fights. Good ideas though with 2 on 1's and the best idea was the double edge lightsaber. I hope to see Anakin use two lightsabers again but i dont think we will. All well.

as for anyone knowing what is going to happen, no one but George knows. But just think about it, sure he's got a set plan but he wants these films to be great for everyone. He only really pleased die hard star wars fans with AOTC. Pleased mostly kids with TPM. HOpe he can make everyone happy with EPISODE III

[QuigonWindu]

Maybe you guys got these already but I found some rumors.

Daniel Logan(Boba Fett) will be in episode 3.
Yoda will be cgi
HC will play Vader, not Prowse.
Return to Kamino

[Lonesabre]

Returning to Kamino would be interesting, maybe we see more armies of the Republic or maybe even a clone of someone else... Sideous mabe???

Daniel Logan, hmmm, that would mean him being Boba Fett so lets HOPE he doesnt take revenge on the Jedi that killed his father! A 13 year old taking on Jedi Master Windu... now that I'd NOT like to see!

:sarcasm:

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Javen@July 20 2002 - 19:19
Why see Vader?Weve already seen him.I dont want to and I hope that he is in it from maybe 5 to 15 minutes and thats it.
It would not make a bit of sense to see him in EP3 for 2 hours
that would ruin it for me.SW is alot more than just seeing Vader anyways.
I completely agree. We saw Vader throughout the original trilogy. It's Anakin's time now. We all know what Vader is like. What we want to see is how the transformation happens. As long as that's in there, and it will be, there's no major problem.

[Mann]

Well, I guess that this new apprentce of Mace Windu's can be added to the rumors. Owen Neug or something.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Daniel Logan, hmmm, that would mean him being Boba Fett so lets HOPE he doesnt take revenge on the Jedi that killed his father! A 13 year old taking on Jedi Master Windu... now that I'd NOT like to see![/b][/quote]

Why not? wouldn't that be cool to see why Boba becomes the best. He's a match for luke on Tatooine and we've seen Jango beat a few Jedi.

[maddog62]

In a couple of years Boba could go back to kamino and if fact speed up his age himself. The rumor is that he is training under Aurra Sing and has Video tapes of Jango

[sbaxter]

>I heard that the choreographer for the lightsaber battles say that he was doing the "final duel" between Anakin and OBi-wan. Do you think that they'll be more than one?

I would imagine that this refers to the finality of the duel between them (even though they go at it again in ANH), and/or its place in the film, not that there would be more than one.

Qapla'

SSB

[Mann]

The whole speed up the age thing is not gonna happen. The clones get the serum immediately so it happens with age. Boba has the skills of his father, who trained him for ten years. The difference is his father was older, to old to beat Mace Windu. Boba is Young and will make a name for himself by killing Mace.

[Martini]

alright the agrument here with how BOBA FETT will be in the next movie is easy.......

He wont kill Mace but i bet he kills lots of Jedi by using the Slave 1 in a space battle. perhaps in the end of the clone wars. cause he cant fight or fly the jetpack but we did get to see him run the slave 1 and he seemed like he knew what he was doing in the astroid field too.

[Queen 'Onna]

I read that Jar-Jar will be in the next movie. :angry:
But I don't know for how long.
The good thing is has to die. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif :)


I also read that we will see baby Luke & Leia.

[ADIDAS Fett]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@July 02 2002 - 14:06
I think that it depends on what you call Vader.

I mean, I think that Anakin will be seduced by the darkside, around about the middle of the film and will then be called "Darth Vader". Later in the film he will have a battle with Kenobi, who probably senses the good still in him, to try and turn him back. He will fail and Anakin will be mortally wounded and have to wear the breathing apparatus we are familiar with and therefore for the remaining 15-20 minutes we will see the Vader we all know and... erm love?

By the way, a small thought...

Sideous and Maul may well have been their names but does anyone know or presume where the titles Tyrannus and Vader actually come from???

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sneaky2.gif
Quick point on this, in AOTC Dooku is only known as Tyranus by a few select people.

jango, sidious and not sure who else, as most, including mace calls him dooku.

wouldn't anakin be the same way? since he is willing to hide his marrige and love for padme, could he also not be seduced by the dark side early on in the film(even without knowing it) and start to BE darth vader, even if not known by that name by anyone other than palpatine.

I invision him spending a great amount of time protecting palpatine and padme in this movie, staying mostly on coruscant as maybe even a body guard of sorts for both.

maybe even with the consent of the counsil.

just my 2 cents.

[Lonesabre]

Maybe even {sorry if this has been posted before} Vader starts to hunt down the Jedi when he still looks like Anakin. Obi then has to unravel a mystery to find out the Siths new assasin, he finally tracks him down and there is a monumental battle as Anakin is revealed as the Sith agent. He then gets kicked in the lava {?} and has to wear the apparatus...

I could see that be one of the major plot threads... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[sbaxter]

I have lots of trouble with some of the rumors being batted around for Episode 3, especially those that concern surprises. One big part of that, I'll admit, is that I detest most of them.

I still think it is likely that Sidious and Palpatine are the same individual. I know the idea they are not is used by some an explanation as to why the Jedi do not sense great evil in Palpatine, but I don't think it holds water for that. Sidious is still _there_, and not far away, either. Go back to Phantom Menace; the scene where Sidious and Maul have their little chit-chat outside looks to be on the balcony outside Palpatine's office. It is certainly the same set; the rather ornate railing at the edge of the balcony is a perfect match for that seen a bit later outside the windows of Palpatine's office. Why do the Jedi not sense his rottenness? My guess is simply that he is an extremely powerful Sith lord who knows tricks that allow him to hide in plain sight, as it were. And *there are signs that perhaps his control of this isn't perfect. In AOTC, there is a scene during one of his little speeches wherein Yoda eyes him rather suspiciously. His Sith powers also explain how he is able to sneak away and do his Sith Stuff. Why does the disguise fool people? Who's to fool? Those to whom he appears where it seems his face is likely to be seen already know his secret, whatever it may be. Others, such as the Trade Federation knuckleheads, don't really see his face well at all. His voice as Sidious is also quite different than that he uses as Palpatine. We know they are the same actor, but then we know that Superman is Clark Kent.

As to who Sifo Dyas was, I believe he was a Jedi Master on the council at one point. Perhaps he died as was stated in the film by Obi-Wan, or perhaps he was actually working for Sidious and disappeared. In the former case, I'd wager the clones were actually ordered by Dooku, and in the latter, maybe it actually was Sifo Dyas himself. If it was him, then I'd guess he was killed at some point, probably by Dooku. When Obi-Wan mentions Sifo Dyas in his communication with the Jedi Temple, there is that _look_ that passes between Yoda and Windu. I could mean any number of things. My guess is that perhaps at the time that Sifo Dyas was reported to have died, there were questionable circumstances of some sort. Maybe the council had some doubts about whether he was actually dead, or whether he had died in the manner reported. If so, then the look that passes between Yoda and Windu could be an "Aha! We knew there was something fishy about that." In any case, whoever ordered the clones had to have been someone who could pass as a Jedi, even if someone tried to test his or her skill with a lightsaber, mainly because you wouldn't want to go around calling yourself a Jedi unless you could back it up.

I don't have any trouble with the idea that Dooku might have been in league in Sidious (to one degree or another) prior to the demise of Darth Maul. Because there are only two of the Sith at a given time, Palpatine knows that sending his apprentice out on errands is dangerous; his apprentice might not return from any given mission. He wouldn't want to have to start from square one with a new apprentice, so at any given time he has various other individuals that he is grooming as possible replacements. This grooming might start with Palpatine sending a Jedi on "secret missions" which appear to be for the good of the Republic, with the Jedi at first believing he is simply working for the senator/supreme chancellor. He would likely identify Jedi with weaknesses he could exploit, but they would likely believe at first they were doing great good. He would draw them in slowly before revealing what he really is, and they'd likely turn before they even realized what they were doing. We see him doing this now, with Anakin, in fact. Don't be surprised if Anakin begins his final slide by undertaking a mission that he believes is one of great good.

I don't believe Sidious was ever a Jedi. We know that not everyone who could be a Jedi is identified by the council. There are other ways to pass along knowledge of how to use the Force than by learning about it at the Jedi Temple. I figure Sidious had a Sith master at one point, who is now dead. I don't think Maul was ever a Jedi either.

Why hate Jar Jar simply because of what he does in AOTC? Sidious doesn't need to manipulate Jar Jar directly; he manipulates others who do that for him. Jar Jar only wants to do the right thing, and someone else would have been used for that purpose had Jar Jar not been there. I know some people loathe Jar Jar, though I can't figure out exactly why. Granted, some of his antics were a little irritating in TPM, especially during the final battle scene, but I blame the writing for that, not Jar Jar Binks. He is a character created for kids, folks. He's no more annoying than Threepio (and yes, I mean Threepio from the OT, not just AOTC), but for some reason he attracts much greater vitriol than Goldenrod ever has. Maybe it has something to do with him being CGI; I don't know. I've even heard people gripe that he is an unconvincing CGI illusion because they hate the character so much -- but these same folks never complain about Watto. Sheesh. I just wish people could resist the urge to hop aboard the "bash Jar Jar at _every_ opportunity" bandwagon. I don't think that Jar Jar necessarily has to die in Episode 3, either, though it won't surprise me if he does.

Anakin will kill Dooku, and thus take his place at Palpatine's side. This will parallel (or, as Lucas puts it, "use the same musical motif") as Luke toppling Vader in ROTJ. *

Will Mace Windu turn out to be a bad seed? Maybe, but I doubt it. Windu is a popular character, and it is one thing to reveal that the bad guy is more than you thought, and quite another to reveal the good guy isn't good. He did it with Lando, but he did so before you really had a chance to trust the guy, and then he redeemed him very quickly. Also, and I hate to bring this up, but Lucas would likely rather avoid the outcry that would be sure to erupt if the one major black character in the film turns out to be a bad guy (I'm surprised there isn't already some hay being made about the Kingpin in the "Daredevil" film being black, especially given that the character in the comics is white). Perhaps, as with Lando, Windu will be forced to aid the wrong side, but be redeemed before the end.

I don't think it likely that Qui-Gon will revealved to have been a bad guy, as it would alter everything we thought about him in Phantom Menace. Plus, this is another one I dislike personally; I really liked Qui-Gon. It could happen, but I hope not.

It is entirely possible that we will see the root of Obi-Wan's speech to Luke about truth depending on point-of-view. Clearly, Yoda and Windu know _something_ they haven't told Obi-Wan as yet. Perhaps when he is told, he will also hear similar reasoning.

I don't think Palpatine will use the creation of the clone army, ostensibly at the behest of the Jedi Council, to discredit the Jedi and bring about their downfall (though it may play a minor role). If that were his game, the time to play that card was at the end of AOTC. Given that he has taken the clone army (at the end of AOTC) and sent them into battle (as will almost certainly have happened by the time Episode 3 begins), any attempt to use that against them would likely ring rather hollow. I think the increased, more and more openly violent efforts of the Separatists will give Palpatine an opening to require an oath of loyalty from everyone (maybe just those in authority and/or in service-oriented jobs ... such as the Jedi). That is where having Dooku give Obi-Wan part of the truth in AOTC will pay dividends. Because of that, the Jedi will have been increasingly suspicious during the interim, and they will refuse to take such an oath.

As an alternative, perhaps the Jedi see things brewing just over the horizon, and some of them move against Palpatine but are thwarted. This would provide Palpatine an opportunity to require an oath of loyalty from the Jedi, and most or all would refuse. Then Palpatine could, with much "regret and great sorrow," make public the fact the Jedi cannot be trusted, and order the deaths (though he may call it exile or imprisonment) of all those who will not pledge loyalty to him. Thus, ordinary citizens would also unwittingly help in the betrayal of the Jedi -- and the character of Palpatine takes on strong Antichrist symbolism.

I admit it is entirely possible that one or more of the above rumors will turn out to be true. Given all the parallels between the two trilogies, it hasn't escaped my notice that we haven't yet gotten a shocking surprise on the level of that revealed to Luke by Vader in ESB. So there might be a jawdropper yet to come.

As for the next film's title, "Fall of the Jedi" or its flipside "Revenge/Rise of the Sith" are the only ones I've heard that seem at all likely, though I'd bet it will be something completely different. But looking at the pattern and the parallels between the two trilogies, we have one where the first and last chapter titles have multiple applicable meanings, and the middle chapter has a rather straightforward, unambiguous name. In the current trilogy, the first chapter has multiple meanings, and the second is straightforward. So I'd guess the next film will have a title that could be applied in more than one way -- but I see no reason it must play off the title of Episode 6. "The Phantom Menace" and "A New Hope" don't really have anything to do with one another as titles, nor do "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Attack of the Clones." About the only thing they share is that all of them are similar to the titles used for the chapters of old serials, especially Episodes 2 and 5, and they use the same number of words.

Finally, I think Anakin will know that Padme is pregnant, but he will believe that she is killed while still pregnant. It is likely that Palpatine will use that as a tool to help drive Anakin over the edge (or, on the other hand, her apparent death may be a ruse to get her away from the already obviously dangerous Anakin). Thus, Anakin will believe his child died with Padme, and he will not know in any case that there were twins. I believe the Jedi (perhaps only Obi-Wan and Yoda, or just the council) will discover she is alive, and then after the children are born, the decision will be made to raise them apart to improve the odds that one of them can face Vader and Palpatine in the future. Obi-Wan will take Luke to Tatooine, possibly dropping Yoda off on Dagobah (which, by the way, is not Naboo after some cataclysm; we see Naboo at the end of the special edition of ROTJ). If there is a Jedi traitor yet unrevealed, then perhaps we will see the creation of the "evil tree" there, but I figure it is more likely that Yoda will know of the already-existing tree and knows it will mask his presence there. Perhaps he will briefly explain how it came to be so saturated with the Dark Side.

Leia will go with Padme to Alderaan to live under the protection of Bail Organa, but Padme will soon realize her presence is a threat to Leia's survival. She is either killed, sacrifices herself, or departs to somewhere unknown ... an intriguing possibility.

That's all I can think of at the moment!

Qapla'

SSB

[Lonesabre]

Fantastic comments!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I don't believe Sidious was ever a Jedi. We know that not everyone who could be a Jedi is identified by the council. [/b][/quote]

Maybe this is the route of Sideous becoming/reforming the Sith. Maybe he thought he was all powerful and is jealous and envious that he was not discovered at an earlier age? He reformed the Sith as revenge for that? Obviously amongst other things though????

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Obi-Wan will take Luke to Tatooine, possibly dropping Yoda off on Dagobah (which, by the way, is not Naboo after some cataclysm; we see Naboo at the end of the special edition of ROTJ).[/b][/quote]

I believe that the three planets that you see here, apart from the moon of Endor are, Bespin {Cloud City}, Tattooine {Mos Eisely} and, at that point in time an unseen Corusant.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Martini]

nice post sbaxter. like your ideas and i hope some come true and make EP3 super evil.

do you think that Padme will die? i hope she actually does just so we know why anakin goes off the deep end. i dont wanna see him before a jedi cause he was tricked. i wanna see padme die almost similar to his mother. that was one of the best scenes ive seen in SW. and maybe she has the kids but doesnt get a chance to tell anakin cause she dies in his hands. that'd be cool to see. cause the whole thing of anakin knowing that she is pregnant is obviously but it can been seen that he doenst know about Leia cause you cant tell if someone is having twins by sight.

also, isnt there suppose to be a new bad guy in the next film? and i think it might be played by Ray Parks cause lucas did say he was gonna use him again.

also sbaxter, tell us what you think will happen with Anakin and Obi-Wan fighting. i think the first fight will be over the lava and a second one will happen when he is all suited up. supposily those two guys have 3 saber duels, one of which we've already seen.

[sbaxter]

>I believe that the three planets that you see here, apart from the moon of Endor are, Bespin {Cloud City}, Tattooine {Mos Eisely} and, at that point in time an unseen Corusant.

I watched the special edition just a few weeks ago, and one of the scenes shown there is almost certainly Naboo. It isn't a very good look, because obviously GL knew some of the details would be further refined in the process of creating the total look for Theed in Phantom Menace. The only thing that keeps me from being completely certain it was Naboo is that there is nothing on the screen saying "Meanwhile, on Naboo ..."

Not sure I remember seeing Mos Eisley; I'd have look again. I'm not saying it isn't there, just that I'll have to check again.

I remember seeing the SE with a friend. We compared nates afterward and both of us mentioned the two places we saw at the end that hadn't been seen in the other films of the OT. We figured that one was Coruscant, but couldn't identify the other. We just figured we'd see them both in the prequels.

>do you think that Padme will die? *i hope she actually does just so we know why anakin goes off the deep end.

I suspect that she will probably die, and I'd think that will play a part in Anakin becoming Vader. I figure it is quite possible he will _think_ he sees her die, but I believe it is important he think she dies before the children are born. If not, he (and Palpatine) would not rest until they found the child(ren) ... or could be fooled into thinking they had been killed.

>isnt there suppose to be a new bad guy in the next film?

I don't know. My thinking is that it is pretty late in the game to reveal a new major villain, unless it is someone to occupy the sort of role that Jango Fett played in AOTC (as essentially, a glorified henchman). A major player could be revealed to be a villain, but don't forget that Dooku is a _returning_ villain this time.

>and i think it might be played by Ray Parks cause lucas did say he was gonna use him again.

I thought he said he'd _like_ to use him again. Anyway, there were rumors Ray Park was going to be in AOTC, but he wasn't.

>also sbaxter, tell us what you think will happen with Anakin and Obi-Wan fighting. *i think the first fight will be over the lava and a second one will happen when he is all suited up. supposily those two guys have 3 saber duels, one of which we've already seen.

I personally doubt that Obi-Wan and Anakin will have more than one duel. A large part of the movie will build up dramatic tension leading to their duel, which I think will be over the lava or something very similar. I think the lava pit, in some form or another, will be there. It isn't just EU stuff; the lava pit was mentioned way back, just after ANH's original release, and that came from GL and his notes on the ANH script.

More than one duel between these two would be anticlimatic, and there is a lot to be done in the next film. If there is more than one, I'd expect the first one to be very short ... or they could do something that looks like a duel but turns out to actually be Obi-Wan and Anakin sparring as a training exercise. If they do that (and it is pure speculation), it would be early in the film. It would be a good way to fool the audience into briefly thinking that Anakin has already turned as the movie opens.

I wonder how they'll dress up the lava pit for the duel. Except for ANH (which introduced the concept) and AOTC (which made up for the lack partly by showing Dooku against three different opponents), the duels have always featured settings with multiple levels and the possibility of a terrible fall. Obviously, the lava itself takes care of the "don't fall" bit.

I also wonder if the next film will try to "up the ante" for the lightsabers. In TPM, we saw the double-bladed saber for the first time. In AOTC, we had Anakin use two sabers at once (and Dooku did the same in a scene that was cut). What next? I'm actually betting they'll go back to basics this last time.

Qapla'

SSB

[Lonesabre]

Ok, after 73 replys, THE RUMOURS, as I see them, IN ORDER!

1} The Clone Wars will be coming to a close, possibly with a climatic space battle establishing Anakin as 'the best star pilot in the galaxy'.

2} As the wars end, Palpatine will convince the senate that his emergency powers need to be upheld. This might even go as far as seeing the start of the dissolving of the senate mentioned in ANH.

3} The first steps toward an all commanding Empire will begin.

4} Palpatine will enlist Anakins help for a special mission, possibly to go after Dooku. This will happen just after Anakin learns he will be a father.

5} The council will detect Anakins near complete fall to the dark side and Obi-Wan will be dispatched to try to turn him back.

6} Padme will announce her pregnancy to Master Yoda and possibly Master Windu.

7} The Jedi Order will crumble. This will have to do with the announcement of their inability to use the force with effect. Many will perish in and leading up to the final battles of the Clone Wars.

8} Anakin, tricked into believing Dooku was responsible for his mothers death, embarks on a massive lightsabre battle with Dooku. During the battle Dooku taunts Anakin about Qui-Gon, Padme {tricking him to think she, and his child are dead} and his Mother and the fact that he {Dooku} might be responsible for Anakins birth {whether he is the father or Shmi was impregnated rather than immaculately conceived}.

9} Obi-Wan turns up just in time to see Anakin slaughter Dooku whilst being completely consumed by the dark side of the force. At this point Sideous turns up and leaves with Anakin.

10} Obi-Wan returns to the remaining council members and is told he must turn Anakin back at all costs otherwise the freedom of the galaxy will be lost.

11} Obi-Wan and Mace Windu confront Sideous and "Vader". Sideous kills Mace Windu whilst Anakin is felled by Obi-Wan into, more than likely, the fabled Lava pit. Retrieving Anakins light sabre, Obi-Wan leaves.

12} Padme gives birth to Luke and Obi-Wan arrives in time to take him away to Tattooine. Announcing his failure, Yoda dispands the remaining members of the council/knights.

13} Obi-Wan leaves and Leia is born, she is taken, with Padme to Alderaan where they will reside until both are in a more substantial position to fight against the Empire...

14} Yoda leaves the destruction/reformation of Corusant behind and starts his seclution on Dagobah.

15} Vader is pulled from the Lava pit by Sideous and reconstructed into the Vader we all know. They then continue the remaining purge of the Jedi {probably not shown}.

16} Obi-Wan arrives at the Lars homestead and trys to explain what has happened. An arguement ensues and he leaves to become a Lukes watcher from beyond the Dune Sea.......


Now I realise this plot line may not have everything in it that has been rumoured, for example, the return to Kamino, the explanation of the Dark Cave on Dagobah, Mace Widu or Qui-Gon being revealed as traiters or Boba Fett returning to kill Mace Windu. I agree that I would love to see these items as well but the plot lines I have pointed out are the most important for the overall story I think and tell the most linear story.

Tell me what you think and I will, at some point, repost this with all your ideas on it as they unfold.

Thanks.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif :scatter: :angel:

[Lonesabre]

To quickly clear up that matter, the planets that are shown are Tattooine, from a shot not disimilar from the SE shot of Lukes speeder approaching Mos Eisley in ANH. I think that you can see a T-16 Skyhopper coming into land. Cloud City is seen from one of the new shots in TESB SE when Lando warns the citizens that Bespin is now under Imperial control. You can see a twin pod cloud car. Corusant is shown in a panning shot from right to left. You can see a stormtrooper getting toppled by a mob and a statue of The Emperor be knocked over. I think if you look real close the statue looks like senator/chancellor Palpatine from the PT, a bit of a give away there for non-fanatics!!!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Seminole Jedi]

Originally posted by Martini@June 26 2002 - 09:23
Jedi master gandalf and all the others who feel like this trilogy is just as good as the last one are all smoking crack and feel like everything GL does is golden. *well i got news for you blind jedi dorks, alot of people dont like these new films he's making. WAKE UP!!! *and who gives a f**k if he's happy with his movies, thats not what matters. *people make movies to please others. *if he made these movies or wrote these stories to be happy about himself, the he would have never released them to the public. *Also Gandalf and everyone else, just cause GL says something now about the movie doesnt mean its going to happen or that he wont change it. *He plays with everyones minds anyway. *He's told us that he is getting 15 minutes of dialogue from JEJ then he comes out and says that Anakin will be most of the movie. Then i guess this movie will be over 3 hours long cause those two things contradict each other. I feel that he has lost this good Star Wars feeling after TESB. *

Like last night I was watching TPM with the audio commentary for the first time and its just pathetic how all they care about is woeing the audience with great special effects that sometimes arent that great but other times are amazing. *Just look how the very first 2 star wars movies were more surrounded around good vs evil and had basic good action plots. *Once GL started with this whole ROTJ, TPM, and AOTC crap, he began to go off on tagents with story and focus too much on leading up to an over the top action sequence that finished off the movie. *

I guess sometimes i get a little peeved at GL cause i feel like he wont EVER be able to match his success with the story of TESB. * I'm hoping that he can bring out the anger and evilness of Anakin in this next movie. *And i feel like if he wants to do this, half the movie should be about his downfall and the other half should be about Vader kicking everyones ass.
I pretty much agree with Martini here.

I think the basic storylines of ROTJ, TPM, and AOTC are quite good. The problem is that the acting and diologue for the most part in horrible in all three. Yet, somehow I still like to watch them because their stories are compelling. ESB has the best acting of any of the 5 films thus far. If Lucas could squeeze some acting out of his cast (McGreggor, Lee, and MacDermit are the exceptions -- they did relatively well in AOTC), then episode 3 could measure up to ESB. Maybe he should let someone else direct e3 and focus on production and script -- take Spielberg up on his offer. But it may be too late because much of good acting is a cast that has chemistry and this group does not.

[Lonesabre]

So what about the plot points from page 3? Im dieing for some feed back!!!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[sbaxter]

>Jedi master gandalf and all the others who feel like this trilogy is just as good as the last one are all smoking crack and feel like everything GL does is golden. *well i got news for you blind jedi dorks,

My, what a constructive opening you've crafted. I can't imagine why many aren't more receptive to your ideas, considering how deeply people generally appreciate personal attacks and insults.

>alot of people dont like these new films he's making.

So? A lot of people don't like _any_ of the Star Wars films. A lot of people apparently do like watching the WWF. There's no accounting for taste. These things are matters of _opinion_. This movie has grossed about $300 million in a summer with other big, successful films. People have gone to see it, and movies don't make that kind of money without repeat business. It is pretty safe to say that repeat business almost exclusively comes courtesy of those who do like the film the first time around. So it is just as valid to say that a lot of people _do_ like these new films he's making. Now, popularity is no guarantee of quality, but that ain't the accusation you made.

>people make movies to please others.

I don't think you'd find very many truly successful movie makers who would agree with that. Any art (regardless of whether you or I think it qualifies as art; if it is art in the mind of its creator, then it is art for the purposes of this discussion) is almost certainly not going to be at its best if it doesn't move its creator and please him. This includes commercial art, which is what the Star Wars films are.

>if he made these movies or wrote these stories to be happy about himself, the he would have never released them to the public.

Ridiculous. If for no other reason, he would release them to the public in order to recoup the cost of making them.

>just cause GL says something now about the movie doesnt mean its going to happen or that he wont change it.

True enough. But I think one could say that if Lucas indicates a movie he's making will contain some particular thing, situation, setting and/or theme, you can at least figure it is a good indication of what we're likely to see.

>He's told us that he is getting 15 minutes of dialogue from JEJ then he comes out and says that Anakin will be most of the movie.

In what way must these two things be mutually exclusive? By definition, "most" technically means "more than half." JEJ never turned in a performance as the voice of Vader such that you'd brand the character a motormouth. I doubt that "15 minutes of dialog" is supposed to mean 15 minutes of non-stop yakety-yak from Vader.

>Like last night I was watching TPM with the audio commentary for the first time and its just pathetic how all they care about is woeing the audience with great special effects that sometimes arent that great but other times are amazing.

What a coincidence; last night I was watching TPM with the commentary turned on as well (not for the first time, however). I noticed Lucas talking about the story quite often, because that's specifically what I was watching to hear this time around. Also, a number of the other participants in the commentary are SFX guys. That is what they worked on in the film, so you'd expect that to be what they'd talk about. Movies are visual, regardless of subject and/or style. A huge part of what a movie _is_ comes from the visual information being presented.

>Just look how the very first 2 star wars movies were more surrounded around good vs evil

Preposterous. The same is true of all of them. The structure on the prequel films is quite different, because the situation is different. A large part of the prequel storylines concern things being done covertly, and Lucas has chosen to show more of the _results_ of the secret doings than he has the secret doings themselves. Thus, you have to look below the surface to discover what is actually happening. These films reward close examination.

>I guess sometimes i get a little peeved at GL cause i feel like he wont EVER be able to match his success with the story of TESB.

For you, he probably won't.

>And i feel like if he wants to do this, half the movie should be about his downfall and the other half should be about Vader kicking everyones ass.

Well, I agree with you on the first half of that statement ... though I believe the percentage of total running time is far less important than how effectively what he does show is presented.

Qapla'

SSB

[Martini]

I think this next film will be equal to TESB cause its gotta be super evil.

AND i hope that JEJ does have a huge part in the next film and that vader has alot of trash talking and commanding people around in the last 45 or 30 mins of EPISODE III.

And as what you said that SW did really well this summer cause its a type of movie that brings people back. NO WAY! SW does so well cause freaks like us see it 3 or 4 or 10 times!! but it also brings in the rest of the money cause almost everyone HAS to see it and NEEDS to see what happens in that universe.

[sbaxter]

>AND i hope that JEJ does have a huge part in the next film and that vader has alot of trash talking and commanding people around in the last 45 or 30 mins of EPISODE III.

That may well come to pass, but I'm inclined to guess that it won't. Why? Because a great deal of the point of the first trilogy is the story of how Anakin becomes Darth Vader. This event will be the climax, or one of them, of the film. Granted, the first trilogy, overall, is also the story of how Palpatine takes control, and there are other issues which must be dealt with, so it is entirely possible that Vader, in the suit and with James Earl Jones speaking for him, will have a substantial part in the film in terms of screen time. But I don't think the suit or the voice makes him Vader. In many ways, it is not the _act_ of doing something that is as important as the _decision_ to take that action. In the biblical account of Adam and Eve, it is not the biting of the forbidden fruit by Eve that is the act that brings about the downfall of man, it is Eve's _decision_ to eat the fruit, her desire to believe the words of the serpent and do what God had instructed her specifically not to do that was her sin. Adam's sin was the same, except that he chose to listen to Eve rather than the serpent.

Similarly, I believe it will be the moment at which Anakin decides to give himself over to the Dark Side, when he welcomes it rather than resisting it as he has in the past (even after he massacres the Sandpeople, he still shows remorse even though he clearly believes his anger was justified), it is then that he will become Darth Vader. I believe it likely that this will be when he elects to cross swords against Obi-Wan, if not before, but I can imagine there would be ways to have it happen afterward. So you may get your wish; we'll just have to wait and see.

>And as what you said that SW did really well this summer cause its a type of movie that brings people back. NO WAY! SW does so well cause freaks like us see it 3 or 4 or 10 times

Actually, that is exactly what I meant. I saw it three times, I have a friend who saw it three times (twice with me), and my wife saw it twice (both times with me) -- and I will buy the DVD the day it becomes available. But most people, especially adults, do not go to see _any_ movie twice in theaters. It is almost always loyal (read: fanatical and near-fanatical, if you like) viewers who go to see a movie more than once, but very few of those will go more than once to see a film they did not like.

For example, I am a big Star Trek fan as well. But I did not pay more than once to see Star Trek V, and I wouldn't give you two cents to see it again. I have it on VHS, but only because I received it as a gift; I've never unwrapped the cassette. If there is a DVD "special edition" of it in the future, I might rent it if there are substantial changes and maybe reworked effects (almost any change would be an improvement). But for the most part, I'm pretty much done with Trek V. I didn't need to see it more than once to decide if I really didn't like it.

There are, on the other hand, some of the other Trek films I've seen numerous times in theaters; the difference is that I liked those films.

Qapla'

SSB

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I watched the special edition just a few weeks ago, and one of the scenes shown there is almost certainly Naboo.

I remember seeing the SE with a friend. We compared nates afterward and both of us mentioned the two places we saw at the end that hadn't been seen in the other films of the OT. We figured that one was Coruscant, but couldn't identify the other. We just figured we'd see them both in the prequels.
[/b][/quote]

sbaxter, I am certain that Naboo was not shown at the end of ROTJ SE, but I am wondering where you saw the world you thought was Naboo. *It must have been a new shot of Endor's moon that you thought was Naboo. *And, the other place seen at the end was Cloud City on Bespin.
*Edit* Oops, I just saw where Lonesaber told you the same thing regarding Cloud City, but in much greater detail.

And also, your comments on 7/29 at 13:19 were well thought out and good to read. *I agree with what you wrote, and hope like you do that you're on the mark with those ideas.

[Tovor]

Martini, you are a good conversationalist, but why do things like this jump out at me and others?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>June 26 2002 - 09:23 *
Jedi master gandalf and all the others who feel like this trilogy is just as good as the last one are all smoking crack and feel like everything GL does is golden. *well i got news for you blind jedi dorks, alot of people dont like these new films he's making. WAKE UP!!! *and who gives a f**k if he's happy with his movies, [/b][/quote]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Posted: July 18 2002 - 14:26
Your so pathetic if you think whatever George Lucas does is golden... *...your pathetic to think he's god... *...and we want to see some goddamn Darth Vader kicking some jedi ass. *
[/b][/quote]
I love the prequels. *Does that mean I'm smoking crack along with the other prequel fans? *You may have meant that in jest but it comes off as rude. *Then when you add "blind jedi dorks", and "pathetic", it comes off as inconsiderate and degrading to others, and that is not conducive to a reasonable debate. *We all have our opinions and preferances, which is what the forum is here for, but calling others who disagree with your views insulting names is not a tolerable or acceptable form of expression here. *Nor is using "gdamn" or blocked out cuss words in messages, since the cuss words are blatent and obvious even with the missing letters and asterisks. *You could call me a hypocrite considering that I use those words out and about in my daily life, but this public yet private forum is meant for respectable and non-insulting interraction between fans, not foul language and degrading insults and name-calling. *In short, please do not express yourself in that manner in this forum again. *Thank you very much.

~Tovor

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And as what you said that SW did really well this summer cause its a type of movie that brings people back.
NO WAY! SW does so well cause freaks like us see it 3 or 4 or 10 times!! [/b][/quote]
Isn't that the same as what the other person said? *Myself, I saw AOTC 10 times so far, and it keeps bringing me back! *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[sbaxter]

As to the question of whether Naboo is in the special edition of ROTJ ... well, I was comfortably certain of it on first mention. Now you guys have me wondering if I was imagining things (if so, my best friend, who is is better at spotting detail than I am, also was seeing things independently of me).

I'll try my best to remember to check on that one tonight.

Qapla'

SSB

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by sbaxter@July 31 2002 - 14:56
I'll try my best to remember to check on that one tonight.
Let me know what you see. I remember Coruscant and Cloud City, but there was one other. I didn't remember it being Naboo, but then I can't think of what it could be.

[Darth Omen]

After reading all the responses and ideas about episode 3, here are my thoughts ......

I like the idea of Palpatine being a clone of Sideous. It makes sense and would explain why the Jedi do not sense the dark side in Palpatine. It would also be that expected story jolt that George needs to throw at us (mirrors Vader telling Luke that he is his father). All because we see Palpy and Sideous in the same scenery doesn't mean they are the same people. Heck, they could be hanging out together on a daily basis conspiring against the Jedi for all we know.

I really laughed at the idea that Mace and Qui-Gon could be bad guys. Think about it, what are these PT movies about? The story of Anakin becoming evil. Why would our friend George decide to throw another character into the "good-to-evil" mix? He wouldn't, and he won't!

As for Naboo being Dagobah, sounds pretty neat, but very unlikely. It would add to many plot holes to the story. Why would Obiwan refer to Naboo as Dagobah in ESB? A planet doesn't change names all because it was decimated. It doesn't make sense. And don't give me that cr*p that Dagobah was referred to as a "system" not a planet. Luke knew exactly what PLANET to head for, so it is safe to assume it was called Dagobah. I think we will be introduced to Dagobah in the next movie as a separate planet. As for Naboo, lets face it, it is an insignificant planet that fades into the background once Padme is eliminated. That is why it is not in the OT.

As for the cave on Dagobah, I think George is going to leave this one alone. We may see Yoda retreating to his new home on Dagobah but don't expect much more. If we are really lucky, we will get an explanation about why there is a dark presence there but that is about it. I like it being a mystery anyway.

Last but not least, whoever came up with the original rumor that Anakin would kill Darth Tyrannus was "right on"! If you haven't noticed, George loves making things come full circle. This encounter will of course resemble the battle Luke had with Darth Vader infront of Sideous. This fight will mark the birth of Vader and the destruction of Anakin.

Nuff said!

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Darth Omen@July 31 2002 - 15:29

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I like the idea of Palpatine being a clone of Sideous. *It makes sense and would explain why the Jedi do not sense the dark side in Palpatine. *It would also be that expected story jolt that George needs to throw at us (mirrors Vader telling Luke that he is his father).[/b][/quote]

I don't think it does make sense. *Why would a clone not be strong in the Force if the source is? *I think the "story jolt" is that Palpatine is Sidious. *In the the OT, there was never any mention of the Emperor being named Palpatine. *In the PT, there's been no scene whatsoever that actually shows Palpatine to be Sidious. *I'm assuming the only reason we know about it is because of the EU. *I think for everybody else that hasn't been following SW outside of the movies, Palpatine being Sidious will be the shocker. *

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I really laughed at the idea that Mace and Qui-Gon could be bad guys. *Think about it, what are these PT movies about? *The story of Anakin becoming evil. *Why would our friend George decide to throw another character into the "good-to-evil" mix? *He wouldn't, and he won't![/b][/quote]

Actually, if you're expecting a "story jolt" and it doesn't involve Palpatine, this could be it. *Qui-gon definitely is not a bad guy. *Mace could be, though I don't see any reason for that either. *But, if there's to be a shocking twist, I think this makes more sense that Palpatine being Sidious' clone. *

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>A planet doesn't change names all because it was decimated. It doesn't make sense. *And don't give me that cr*p that Dagobah was referred to as a "system" not a planet. *Luke knew exactly what PLANET to head for, so it is safe to assume it was called Dagobah. *[/b][/quote]

It's not cr*p, it's a fact. *A system is not a planet. *There's a big distinction there. *Perhaps systems are named after planets, but I haven't heard any rule saying this is the case. *Luke knowing exactly what planet to go to (and the exact part of the planet that Yoda lived) has always bothered me. *Maybe the Force guided him, or maybe it's a weakness of the movie. *

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Last but not least, whoever came up with the original rumor that Anakin would kill Darth Tyrannus was "right on"! *If you haven't noticed, George loves making things come full circle. *This encounter will of course resemble the battle Luke had with Darth Vader infront of Sideous. *This fight will mark the birth of Vader and the destruction of Anakin.[/b][/quote]

I think the actual birth of Vader will come in his battle against Kenobi. *A battle with Tyrannus likely will occur, though. *It's possible the fight will take place on Dagobah, thereby explaining the Dark Side presence there. *No, I don't really have a good reason for why it would take place there, but I don't want to let go of the possibility of Tyrannus' death causing the presence. *The reason why I'd love to see it explained is because it would connect the two trilogies better. *Every little detail like that helps.

[sbaxter]

>>I'll try my best to remember to check on that one tonight.

>Let me know what you see. I remember Coruscant and Cloud City, but there was one other. I didn't remember it being Naboo, but then I can't think of what it could be.

I already posted this elsewhere, but I'm here to admit that I was wrong. It was the "new look SE version" of Tatooine I was seeing. I see how I made the error; domes and large arches in the building design aren't completely dissimilar to some of what we saw on Naboo, especially from a distance.

Mea Culpa.

On a side note, though, I was impressed at how consistent the prequel look of Coruscant is to the one presented in that brief snippet in ROTJ.

Qapla'

SSB

[Darth_Stinky]

Though I am new to this site, I have noticed that all here before me are quite observant and very thorough Star Wars fans. Here's what I think will happen in Episode 3. The Clone Wars are ending and somehow due to the way things have been in the last two films, Palpatine has duped the galaxy into permanently naming him their leader. Remember in Episode II, Amidala says the people of Naboo tried to elect her their leader for life making her a true queen. Maybe the whole galaxy elects Palpatine Emperor on someone's suggestion due to the Republic's success in the Clone Wars. I don't think Palpatine would try to procliam himself Emperor directly. The people would have to be swayed into that. Secondly, Anakin's turn. In Episdoe II, it is revealed that to some extent Anakin has been speaking and taking advice from Palpatine. Anakin has shown he thirsts for vengeance. At some point in time, the Jedi discover who Palpatine really is and they try to convince others of the truth. But they have been discredited by Count Dooku's actions and reports of the overzealous Anakin's actions. I think that in order to set the Great Jedi Purge into motion Palpatine has began a smear campaign and the council is disbanded. Still, the Jedi try to remain faithful to their cause and attempt to fight back against Palpatine further damaging their reputation. In a desperate attempt to maybe stop the Empire, Anakin and Mace face off against Dooku. Mace Windu is killed and i Anakin is captured. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan and the others are fighting the Empire or trying to sabotage and early version of the Death Star. Just like in ROTJ, Anakin stands in the presence of Darth Sidious and Count Dooku, Sidious taunting Anakin just as he did Luke. But the difference is Anakin gives in to the dark side and in anger over his lost arm and the death of Windu and the defamation of the Jedi he kills Dooku. Forever becoming the Emperor's servant. Sidious reveals who he really is and convinces Anakin he can further his training and make him more powerful. He convinces Anakin that the Jedi are guilty of traitorus acts. With Anakin under the Emperor's influence he reutnrs to the order to destroy it from within. But anakin thinks he can break away from the dark side and turn against the Emperor. But due to his capture his is MIA. Not knowing of his status, Obi-Wan begins to protect Amidala. When Anakin returns, he finds the bond between Amidala and Obi-Wan too close for comfort. Enraged due to his belief she was unfaithful to him, Anakin in secret begins killing Jedi. Waiting for Obi-Wan to be the last. But before he can finish them all, Obi Wan discovers who the Jedi killer is. In a deperate attempt to stop his young padawan from killing anymore Obi-Wan imprisons him and takes him to a distant planet where it is thought he and Yoda can save Anakin. But Anakin's hate is too much and instead he engages Obi-Wan in a deadly duel. At the same time it is discovered what planet the Jedi are hiding on. The Empire is arriving full force....just as Obi-Wan and Anakin engage in a death duel. Anakin loses but before he can die the Emperor lands on the planet. Knowing they are outmatched, all Jedi that can....run. Obi-Wan goes to Amidala to tell her the news of Anakin's fate. This is where we find out she's carrying Anakin's children. Obi_Wan goes to Yoda to ask what to do. Yoda tells him that he still feels Anakin through the force and he is indeed alive. But fully immersed in the darkside but it's unknown where he is at. Amidala and Obi-Wan return to Naboo where now Darth Vader is waiting for them

To answer some questions from before Mace is killed in combat by Count Dooku. *Amidala is NOT killed though. *Obi-Wan and Amidala manage to escape to Alderaan. *Obi-Wan has to change his name and shave his beard to get past Imperial bounty hunters. *When they arrive at Alderaan, Bail Organa hides Amidala and now named Ben Kenobi. *There she gives birth to Luke and Leia, but again the Empire finds them. *There Vader searches for Amidala and Obi-Wan. *But before he can find them Bail hides Amidala in the royal palace and Ben spirits Luke to Tatooine and to Anakin's stepbrother. *The movie closes with Luke being handed over Owen Lars and Bail Organa putting his arm around a crying Amidala and Leia. *Final scene is the Emperor giving a speech to his new Imperial Army and a fleet of Star Destroyers leaving Coruscant preparing to consolidate the Empire.

[darthwicker]

This is an interesting extract from the Darth Vader fact-file at starwars.com:
At the time of his transformation, Vader never knew he was due to be the father of twins. Obi-Wan Kenobi hid the children from the Dark Lord and Vader's master, Emperor Palpatine. Vader somehow discovered that he had a son, Luke Skywalker, but never suspected he had a daughter, Leia, who was secretly taken to be raised by Bail Organa, Viceroy and First Chairman of Alderaan.

[jedi.master_ennasus]

I would just like to say that i dont think Dagobah has anything to do with eps3 cos on the official sw website it explains how Yoda got there and why its so ugly. It says:

During those times Yoda figured in stopping a swath of destruction cut by Dark Jedi from Bpfassh. One of these dark siders had gotten as far as Dagobah, were Yoda bested him in direct confrontation. The Bpfasshi Jedi died, his dark Force absorbing into and twisting a nearby tree -- forming a dark side nexus. It is believed that Yoda chose Dagobah as his hiding place due to the dark side energies emanating from the tree. From a distance, Force-users like the Emperor would not detect Yoda since the master's bright light side presence would be canceled by the Bpfasshi dark side presence. *

Just so u no. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[sbaxter]

>The Bpfasshi Jedi died, his dark Force absorbing into and twisting a nearby tree -- forming a dark side nexus. It is believed that Yoda chose Dagobah as his hiding place due to the dark side energies emanating from the tree. From a distance, Force-users like the Emperor would not detect Yoda since the master's bright light side presence would be canceled by the Bpfasshi dark side presence.

All I can say is:

ah-HA!

Qapla'

SSB

[Darth_Stinky]

I know that I explained my theories in detail before about this but I thought about this the yesterday. Has anyone noticed the reluctance of Lucas to say that Sidious and Palpatine are the same person? Now, while I still think they are do you suppose it's possible that Palpatine is like a twin brother to Sidious perhaps? Maybe Darth Sidious is just using his brother for his ultimate gain. He maybe kills Palpatine in the movie and takes over. That would bring some light as to why the Jedi cannot sense who he is.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Darth_Stinky@Aug. 03 2002 - 12:49
That would bring some light as to why the Jedi cannot sense who he is.
The Jedi cannot see things through the Force like they used. That was specifically stated in AOTC. "The Dark Side clouds everything."

More than that, there are so many Force-users around Palpatine, that he's not going to cause much of a tremor in the Force, especially since he's likely not using the Force when they're around. The presence of the Jedi is probably masking his presence.

[Darth_Stinky]

Well that's true, but Mace Windu states that the number of Jedi are small. I just seriously don't see how they could not notice his presence, the dark would have to stick out amongst the light.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Darth_Stinky@Aug. 03 2002 - 21:32
Well that's true, but Mace Windu states that the number of Jedi are small. *I just seriously don't see how they could not notice his presence, the dark would have to stick out amongst the light.
You're right that the dark presence stands out. *Yoda has sensed it. *But they can't pinpoint it. *I imagine because of their now limited abilities. *Just by way of growing, the Dark Side presence has clouded the Jedi's powers.

[Lonesabre]

Hot of the press!

In the new edition of the UK magazine, Dreamwatch, Liam Neeson has confirmed that he has been approached to reprise his role in Episode III. Apparently {as we already knew} the fact that he did not disappear and the whole fact of 'becoming one with the force' are major plot points.

Wow!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scatter.gif :saber:

[Darth_Stinky]

I hadn't really thought of it at the time but I didn't know it was his voice asking Anakin to stop when he was killing the sandpeople.

[sbaxter]

>Well that's true, but Mace Windu states that the number of Jedi are small. *I just seriously don't see how they could not notice his presence, the dark would have to stick out amongst the light.

The AOTC Visual Dictionary states that there are around 200 Jedi typically on Coruscant, with a several thousand more scattered around the galaxy. Granted, that qualifies as an EU source, but I think it is probably more authoritative than, say, the typical EU novel. Still subject to change, however.

The need for a large number of Jedi to mask Sidious and Dooku is not so important if you accept that the temple itself, as the site of countless Light Side-related activities over thousands of years, might have become a "Light-Side nexus" point, much as the tree/cave on Dagobah may be masking Yoda later. At the very least, it _is_ established that a location can be permeated with the Force.

Qapla'

SSB

[Jedi D'oh]

Originally posted by Martini@June 25 2002 - 13:27
Yea that blows that he said "mostly anakin". *figured GL would find a way to mess up this trilogy. and by NOT adding alot of darth vader, he's completed f**ked up these movies. *

however, im even gonna disagree with GL. *He has only written a draft. i dont even think he knows what is going to happen completely in EPISODE III. *also dont forget that james earl jones has done or is going to do 15 minutes of dialogue. *thats about 1/2 a movies length for darth vader. *i STILL THINK its gonna be half anakin and half vader movie.


question::: whats everyone think about that 1930s and 40s thing?
look, i only got through about the first half of this thread and got totally ticked off!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif who are any of you to say GL has f***ed these movies? we should feel lucky he even decided to make any of these movies at all.

after the OT he could have just decided to say oh well and not make anymore movies. he never had to in the first place. so this goes to all the naysayers out there.....just sit back and enjoy the magic instead of psycho-analyzing every minor detail and assuming you know everything about a movie that has not even been drafted yet. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Lonesabre]

Its true we should all just kick back and relax and be thankful he made any movies at all after making the original Starwars nearly killed him!!!

Thanks George!!

:roll:

[Lonesabre]

Hey 100 posts on a thread I created!!!!!

Lets have a party! Your all invited!!!

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[gregfett]

DARTH MAUL COULD BEAT COUNT DOOKU ANY DAY OF THE WEEK
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[sbaxter]

>who are any of you to say GL has f***ed these movies?

While I understand your frustration, venting it here will avail you not, I'm afraid. It feels good initially, but you will come to learn that you've usually (and unwittingly) just added fuel to the fire.

Every bulletin board seems to have a few members who have two purposes:

1. To gripe and complain. In this case, we have a situation where a significant minority feel displeased with the direction the Star Wars films have taken. They feel that here they've found kindred spirits -- never realizing that, were the films made the way any one of them might want, they'd find that the majority of those with whom they'd previously agreed _still_ think it is all wrong. Finding a common gripe that it is wrong is easy, but getting agreement on what it _should_ be is harder.

2. A smaller number are present for the purpose of finding those with strong feelings different from their own -- so they can then take delight in tormenting those people with polarizing, over-the-top statements. I suspect that some of these are people who are prevented by circumstance or lack of adequate bravery from vehemently disagreeing with others face-to-face, so they come to a BB to vent _their_ frustrations.

Don't forget that some people are being honest as well, even if they may also tend to make over-the-top statements. Sometimes they get caught up in the atmosphere of a BB, and sometimes it is just their way. It may or may not indicate dislike as strong as is portrayed.

And, to paraphrase Steve Martin, I believe that everyone has a right to his own opinion -- no matter how stupid it is, or how much better my opinion is than theirs. ;)

Qapla'

SSB

[Jedi D'oh]

Originally posted by sbaxter@Aug. 08 2002 - 16:55
>who are any of you to say GL has f***ed these movies?

While I understand your frustration, venting it here will avail you not, I'm afraid. It feels good initially, but you will come to learn that you've usually (and unwittingly) just added fuel to the fire.

Every bulletin board seems to have a few members who have two purposes:

1. To gripe and complain. In this case, we have a situation where a significant minority feel displeased with the direction the Star Wars films have taken. They feel that here they've found kindred spirits -- never realizing that, were the films made the way any one of them might want, they'd find that the majority of those with whom they'd previously agreed _still_ think it is all wrong. Finding a common gripe that it is wrong is easy, but getting agreement on what it _should_ be is harder.

2. A smaller number are present for the purpose of finding those with strong feelings different from their own -- so they can then take delight in tormenting those people with polarizing, over-the-top statements. I suspect that some of these are people who are prevented by circumstance or lack of adequate bravery from vehemently disagreeing with others face-to-face, so they come to a BB to vent _their_ frustrations.

Don't forget that some people are being honest as well, even if they may also tend to make over-the-top statements. Sometimes they get caught up in the atmosphere of a BB, and sometimes it is just their way. It may or may not indicate dislike as strong as is portrayed.

And, to paraphrase Steve Martin, I believe that everyone has a right to his own opinion -- no matter how stupid it is, or how much better my opinion is than theirs. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Qapla'

SSB
ya know sbaxter, i agree with your statement here. my main reason for this post is because on almost every thread i read, there is someone who totally disses these movies. while TPM is not my favorite of the saga, it sets up the saga as what it needs to be. as a standalone, it is boring. but wait until the big picture is completed.

it upsets me when people who claim to love SW so much will have to nitpick all that Lucas does. if you dont like it dont watch it! the mans vision is his vision, sit back and enjoy the galaxy hes created for us.

as far as that rant is concerned, i just wanted people to see that the negativity they post can tick off loyal fans who only love a good story.

i thank you, sbaxter, for your honesty in this post! MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Martini]

HEY!!! its my god-damn AMERICAN right to complain about what i see in the movies or on tv or in the newspaper. and i like to complain about bits and pieces of Star Wars. Hell every movie isnt perfect

[Jedi D'oh]

yes martini, it is your right to complain. but since almost everything about EPIII is speculation, and we all know how much GL and RM like to give disinformation and keep stuff secret, saying that GL has f****ed up this trilogy is a very presumptuous statement for a movie we know nothing about except a vauge storyline.

p.s. sorry if i ticked you off, wasn't my intention. it was not directed at you personally, i just used your quote as an example. sorry! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

[Darth_Stinky]

I thought about my earlier and rather lengthy post about Ep.III and what will happen. I also thought about something else as well but it's music wise. First, my revised edition. To appropriately describe Anakin's fall, I should point that Palpatine and Darth Sidious have never been refered to as the same person by anyone. I think that it would keep within the fuzzy parallel between the two trilogies if it is revealed that Palpatine and Darth Sidious are in fact twins. Maybe Palpatine isn't the greatest guy in the galaxy but maybe he isn't has capable of the viciousness that Sidious embodies. My memory is pretty fuzzy at the moment but I thought I remember Palpatine telling Anakin at the end of Episode I "WE"LL have to keep an eye on you." Secondly, lesser related to the New Trilogy, Palpatine (or who we think is Palpatine) tells Luke that things have all gone according to his plan. While this probably means the ROTJ plotline soley, it could hearken back to Anakin. Perhaps he knew Anakin would have force strong children. Yoda seen pretty far into the future so why couldn't the Emperor? Better yet, maybe he knows Anakin will fall and everything had duel purpose..his ascension to Emperor and gaining the Chosen One as his Apprentice. Maybe he'll say the same thing to Anakin. We know there can only be two Sith lords at a time, so when Anakin becomes Vader, Dooku is out of the picture. Either he has tried to save himself by turning back to the light like Vader/ Anakin did in ROTJ or maybe Anakin kills him. It is noted quite duly that Anakin becomes the new Dark Lord of the Sith before his injuries. Which leads me to my next point. Simply put on Star Wars: Clone Campaigns, there is a planet called Sarapin. It is described as a hot hostile volcanic planet. In the planet's information profile, it is said to be the Galactic Republic and later the Galactic Empire's main source of power. But it's also noted that sometime before the Battle of Yavin the planet was attacked or the power was interrupted. Could GL be hiding hints? Could this be where Anakin nearly dies, tryin to stop the now banished Jedi from attacking HIS Master's Empire? It would bring two elements into play, one it would place both Anakin and Obi-Wan in the same place on a volcanic planet in battle with each other. Simply put I think that Episode III will be a darker mirror image of ROTJ. Lastly, music. In the first episodes of both trilogies, a slight version of the Imperial March is heard. Episode I contains hints of the IM in Anakin's Theme,while Episode IV contains hints of it as well. In the second episodes of both trilogies, the Imperial March becomes more prominent. Especially at the end of Ep.II. So how does this come into play? Star Wars is as much remembered for it's characters as it is it's music. The music says a lot about a scene. So will there be an epic battle at the end of Ep.III as there was in Ep.VI?

[Jedi Master Shaft]

Of course there will be an epic battle at the end of Episode III. It is obvious.

I guess the newly-formed Empire will attack a grand symbol of the Republic at the end of the film: the Jedi. In fact, I 've been thinking in the last two years that it would be great if Episode III finished with tons of stormtroopers, commanded by a turned-Sith-Anakin and a commander Tarkin, attacking the Jedi Temple.

It would be a very good battle if well done. I do not think the end of Episode III will mirror the end of Jedi that much.

And for your Sarapin planet I wouldn't hope too much. Nobody knows what will happen in Episode III by now and I'm sure even George Lucas doesn't know everything so I do not think that a whole new planet would have been designed more than 3 years before the release of the film to be put in a video game.


Wait and see. The Force is with George Lucas. Episode III will be great.

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[Lonesabre]

Any one else thought of any rumours and an order to put them in ? ? ? ? ?

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[Mann]

The casting of Samantha Morton as Mon Mothma.
The casting of Gabriel Bryne.
The casting of Willem Dafoe.

[Jedi Master Shaft]

The name of Robert Carlyle has been pronounced several times ( for the role of Tarkin I guess ).

But it's only a rumor.


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[YodaFan85]

Hey all, I'm new here, but I really enjoy this topic.

I read somewhere (possibly on TF.N) that Lucas stated that at the start of Episode III, the Clone Wars will be ending. I'm hoping it starts out with a huge battle to signal the end of the Wars. that'd be exciting.

I have a lot of other things to say, but I can't remember everything I read from the beginning of this topic, so I can't say it.

"Lost a planet Master Obi-Wan has." *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

[Jedi Master Shaft]

Welcome to the Galactic Senate, YodaFan85 ! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

You're right, Episode III will begin with the last battle of the Clone Wars, and it will take place in my opinion over Alderaan. I hope.

Anyway, welcome, and have fun here !


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[bodhisattva yoda]

where'd you hear about samantha morton being cast? i love her. i hope this isn't just a rumor.

[Martini]

who?

[bodhisattva yoda]

she was the clarvoyant crackbaby in minority report....the female pre-cog. she was also a mute in woody allen's 'sweet and lowdown' and she was a herion addict in 'jesus' son'... which are all fantastic films.

[Lonesabre]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Shaft@Aug. 21 2002 - 17:19
The name of Robert Carlyle has been pronounced several times ( for the role of Tarkin I guess ).
Hi people Im back!!!

Robert Carlyle as Moff Tarkin? NOt bad but I wouldve thought a little too young. The best actor would be that of the poor mans Pacino, Gabriel Byrne, but as Ive said before, that rumour has already been snubbed by Mcallum.

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[Darth Vegas]

Gabriel Bryne looks nothing like Peter Cushing, way too short, and not skiny enough.

I got a friend that actually does look exactly like Tarkin, you won't believe your eyes. :eek:

[Javen]

Anyone know if High Jackman is suppose to be in EPIII or not?

[Lonesabre]

He was rumoured to be in it but like Gabriel Byrne I think its been dismissed by Lucasfilm. But then that doesnt really mean anyhting does it?!?

Who could he be? Bail Antilles {as he was unseen in TPM} or Captain Antilles? Or someone else?!?!

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[Lonesabre]

And another thing, why are there so many people in the Starwars universe called Antillies???

And dont give me any of that, Lucas was just short of ideas rubbish style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

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[Jedi Master Shaft]

Some Episode III stuff here (http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/news/2002/09/news20020904.html) on the Official Site !!!


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[Brian]

Originally posted by Javen@Sep 2 2002, 04:37 PM
Anyone know if High Jackman is suppose to be in EPIII or not?
Here (http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/rick/askjc20020801.html) is the conformation from Rick McCallum.

[Jedi Master Shaft]

Anyway, that Hugh Jackman rumor was stupid. I just couldn't see him as Tarkin.


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[Lonesabre]

Yeah right, I dont get the impression that hes distinguished enough to be Tarkin. Like I said he'd just have to be some sort of rogue or something. Not that hes going to be in it anyway

Anyway, a lot more rumours have surfaced lately, anyone want to take another plunge into trying to predict the running order of the film???

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[Martini]

what rumors? only thing ive heard is the driods with their memories cleared and padme not in ROTJ. oh yea, and clone wars end early and the rest of the story is character driven. which means i expect to see some slower saber duels all involving anakin or vader some way. i think we'll see 3 major duels. Anakin/Dooku, Obi-wan/Anakin, and Vader/4-5 jedis.

[Darth Vegas]

So because the Clone Wars end early, and GL said from that point on it's more personnal, you assume the lightsaber duel(s), is going to be slow?


I think not, GL said a few months back that he is saving the very best for last. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Jedi Master Shaft]

'Very best' does not mean very fast.

The duel of Empire is way slower than the duels of the Prequels, and it's still the best lightsabre duel ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>i think we'll see 3 major duels. Anakin/Dooku, Obi-wan/Anakin, and Vader/4-5 jedis. [/b][/quote]

Well, I agree on Anakin Skywalker versus Darth Tyranus, on Obi-Wan Kenobi versus Anakin-turned-Sith, but what do you mean by 'Vader/4-5 Jedis' ? Do you think that Anakin-turned-Sith will come back after being 'killed' by Master Kenobi in Vader's OT armour only to kill 5 Jedi ? That would be stupid.


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[Martini]

slower lightsaber duels are more artistic and pleasing to see. episode i and ii had fast fights. too fast. and not enough talking. thank god dooku taunted obi-wan and yoda said a few words and i love the line that anakin says to dooku about being a slow learner.

but GL needs to bring back those ESB and ROTJ duels were vader trash talks non-stop and goes slow with the lightsaber, almost making him more dangerous.

but yea Agent Bond, if Lucas is leaving the best for last and this is the last we'll see, i cant imagine how good the lightsaber scene will be like between obi-wan and anakin/vader

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah we definately need more dialogue for the duel in Episode 3.

[Jedi Master Shaft]

Anakin Skywalker-turned-Sith will obviously talk to Obi-Wan Kenobi during their final duel the way Count Dooku talked to Master Kenobi in one of Clones's drafts -see my signature- it will be amusing to see that.


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[Martini]

your signature, kind of a cheesy line. im glad they cut that out. i like what dooku did say though

[Darth Barrister]

Living here in Los Angeles just a skip and a jump away from the ILM and Skywalker complex in Santa Monica, I heard an industry rumor that the Emporer is "technically" Anakin's father.

I don't know how reliable my source is, but it would definitely add a new dynamic to the final duel between Luke and Vader in the Throne Room.

(In my opinion, it could also be a little too much of a "family connection" as I still debate whether the Leia is your sister bit was a little overboard in this department).

[maddog62]

I guess that GL needed the sister point to put Luke on the edge of Darkness. When Vader implies that he could turn her that pisses Luke off and Luke finally feals Darkside flowwing through him, but I don't think that the connection was really that important untill then. Although it is cool to see that the force brought them together.

[Darth Barrister]

That is an interesting point maddog62. It is what Vader uses to release Luke's rage.

My concern as a kid when I saw the "sister" revelation, was that Lucas was trying to recreate the shock of the Vader revelation (which as a 7 year old blew me away).

What do you think about the rumor that the emporer is "technically" Anakin's father and thus, Luke's grandfather?

[James]

What I think will happen


The Clone Wars will still be dragging on. Lots of Jedi are dying by the day


The Death Star is being built


Different senators who don't like Palpatine are quietly being killed off. Palpy tells everyone he is going to become Emperor


Anakin will see Padmé on Naboo for the last time They might...erm..."do it":love: before Anakin is called away to fight


Palpatine says that the clone warriors now serve him and his newly formed Imperial Senate because it's "the legitimate governing body of this galaxy"


Palpy starts using the army to attack the Jedi. Lots are killed: Ki-Adi-Mundi, Adi Gallia and in the end the only Jedi left are Yoda and Mace Windu, who go to Naboo to hide


Palpy captures Anakin and tells him about the power of the dark side. He knows Anakin is more powerful than Dooku and tells him to destroy him


Anakin, filled with the dark side, kills Dooku, on Geonosis


Palpy tells him his new name is Darth Vader. Vader confesses Padmé is his wife and is told by Palpy to kill her, in order to get supreme power.


When Anakin get to Naboo, he comes to the Royal Palace, thinking Padmé must be there. He kills Queen Jamillia and Sio Bibble and the rest of them.


He finds Mace Windu and kills him, just as he, R2-D2 and C-3PO, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Padmé are getting ready to flee Naboo and find a safe place to hide. Padmé is heavily pregnant but Anakin never sees her


Mace tries to bring him back first, but Anakin just kills him. Obi-Wan and Anakin battle to the edge of a lava pit, where a long dormant Naboo volcano is ready to erupt (I'm a strong believer in that theory)


Anakin appears to be getting the upper hand when he slips and falls into the pit. Obi-Wan picks up his lightsaber, and walks away. He is very very sad...


Obi-Wan, Yoda and Padmé mourn the death of Mace Windu and speed across the galaxy in Padmé's starship.


They get to Dagobah and there Padmé gives birth to Luke and Leia.


Padmé reluctantly agrees to separate the children, knowing that Vader and the Emperor would find out


Obi-Wan immediately takes Luke to live with Owen and Beru Lars, leaving Padmé and Leia under Yoda's protection. Cliegg has died by this time


Meanwhile, the Emperor comes to Naboo and gets Anakin out and puts his breath mask on him. The two fly away and Naboo blows up


Palpy tells Vader to kill the last remnants of the Jedi


On his way to Tatooine, in a disguised Jedi fighter, a Star Destroyer picks up Obi-Wan. Vader recognises who he is. Obi-Wan escapes


Obi gets to Owen and Beru on Coruscant and they raise Luke


Obi-Wan goes back to Dagobah a couple of months later for Leia. Padmé, having a broken heart, form having lost her love, thanks Obi-Wan for what he did for her and children, and dies


Obi-Wan and Yoda agree to take Leia to Bail Organa on Alderaan. They adopt her as a princess, telling no-one she's Vader's daughter.


Yoda goes back to Dagobah, and saying bye, Obi-Wan goes back to Tatooine. They live there, watching the Skywalker kids until they are old enough....

[borgmatrix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The Death Star is being built[/b][/quote]

The Death Star is first used in ANH. If construction starts in epIII, I find it hard to believe that it would take about 20 years to complete.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Palpy captures Anakin and tells him about the power of the dark side. He knows Anakin is more powerful than Dooku and tells him to destroy him


Anakin, filled with the dark side, kills Dooku, on Geonosis[/b][/quote]

But what's your explanation for why Anakin obeys the Emperor? Simply telling him of the power of the Dark Side doesn't sound like enough to get him to turn.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Palpy tells him his new name is Darth Vader. Vader confesses Padmé is his wife and is told by Palpy to kill her, in order to get supreme power.[/b][/quote]

No matter what Palpatine says to him, I don't see Anakin even attempting to kill her. If we've learned anything about Anakin, it's that family is very important to him. We saw how upset he was over the death of his mother. We know how much he loves Padme. And in ROTJ, we saw his love for his son redeem him. He will not kill his wife.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Obi-Wan goes back to Dagobah a couple of months later for Leia. Padmé, having a broken heart, form having lost her love, thanks Obi-Wan for what he did for her and children, and dies[/b][/quote]

Padme seems like an extremely strong-minded and strong-willed person. I don't think she would just die of a broken heart.

[maddog62]

I would like to believe that Anakin is created by the Force but who knows.

[James]

I bet anything Anakin is created by the Force. His mum was strong with the force too, so if sidious was Anakin's father he might have been able to use Smhi Skywalker

[James]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The Death Star is first used in ANH. If construction starts in epIII, I find it hard to believe that it would take about 20 years to complete. [/b][/quote]

But Poggle the Lesser gave Dooko the plans for it in AOTC. I do not believe Sidious would have waited for so long to begin building it.

borgmatrix, did u know that the Death Star was made by slave labour. So it may have taken ages to complete. Also, it was the first kind of superweapon in space, so it may have taken a long time to get it perfect.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>No matter what Palpatine says to him, I don't see Anakin even attempting to kill her. If we've learned anything about Anakin, it's that family is very important to him. We saw how upset he was over the death of his mother. We know how much he loves Padme. And in ROTJ, we saw his love for his son redeem him. He will not kill his wife.[/b][/quote]

Anakin is very weak, he just does what he feels is best. In AOTC he just goes to tatoine to see his mum, and in Ep3, being totally controlled by Palpy he will do whatever he wnts him to do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Padme seems like an extremely strong-minded and strong-willed person. I don't think she would just die of a broken heart.[/b][/quote]

Padmé has lost not only anakin, but all that she stood for, her friends etc etc etc...

[Mann]

But she'll still know her children are alive, and that's what will keep her going methinks. Just like Anakin keeps on going knowing Padme is still alive.

[borgmatrix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>borgmatrix, did u know that the Death Star was made by slave labour. So it may have taken ages to complete. Also, it was the first kind of superweapon in space, so it may have taken a long time to get it perfect.[/b][/quote]

The station was massive in size, so perhaps you're right.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Anakin is very weak, he just does what he feels is best. In AOTC he just goes to tatoine to see his mum, and in Ep3, being totally controlled by Palpy he will do whatever he wnts him to do.[/b][/quote]

Anakin isn't weak. He has certain beliefs and opinions, and follows through with them. You still haven't explained why he's "totally controlled" by Palpatine. If he's being controlled, then I don't think his fall to the Dark Side is dramatic at all. In the OT, Vader never came across like a mindless puppet. He obeyed his Master, but he still very much had a mind of his own.

[mtilden]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Anakin is very weak, he just does what he feels is best. In AOTC he just goes to tatoine to see his mum, and in Ep3, being totally controlled by Palpy he will do whatever he wnts him to do.[/b][/quote]

I am sorry to say this, but it sounds like you do not have a very good grasp of this story. Anakin will not kill Padme, any more than he killed Luke. Anakin's entire character and story is built around his fear of losing the people closest to him, and the lengths that he is willing to go to to ensure that he won't have to undergo such loss again. Right now, Padme is Anakin's only connection to the real world, she is the only thing keeping him sane. When gone she is, to the Dark Side will go. Which is why I believe that it is probably her death that will push him over the edge. But he will not kill her, not even on Palpatine's orders, that would be, completely out of character for him.

[actionjack29]

To Darthjames,
It takes a lot of money to construct a space station such as the Death Star as well as political support. I believe such a space station will be constructed off screen(between EpIII and Ep.IV, closer to Ep.IV). The second Death Star was constructed between Ep.IV and Ep.VI. Unless it was actually under construction ealier, but why, all the problems with the first Death Star were being corrected as the second was being built, right!!! I guess what I'm saying is, that Sidious didn't really have much of a choice in waiting for it's construction, that's all!!!

[Darth Vegas]

This is Star Wars not the real world.

The second Death Star, whichj was nearly twice the size of the first, took less than a year to build. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

I am confident we will see something of the Death Star besides another hologram, in episode 3.

At this point the Confederacy has most of the Republic's leading industrial oragnizations, they have more than enough resources to construct such a thing, just look at the size of their fleet and army.

Sidious is using the Confederacy for his own means, he needs the ultimate weapon in order to keep control after he declares himself Emporer, even with his army, and Vader, and the fleet, and tie fighter squadrons, there is still trillions of sysytems teaming with lie, most of them civilized and technologically advanced, he has to have something to control them.

Note dialogue from ANH:

Imperial officer: "But how will the Emporer maintain control with out the buerocracy?"

Tarkin: "The regoinal governers now have direct control over their territtories. Fear will keep the local systems in line, fear of this battle station."

That to me sounds like for the time being while the Imperial Senate was active, they did not allow the Emporer to use the Death Star. Most likely te Alderaan seat was behind a motion to keep rom using the weapon, kinda like Padme was behind the commitee against creating an army for the Republic.

The Emporer struggled to keep the galaxy in line, and finally, when he could prove that some senate members were behind the Rebellion, he distilled of them, and all the others. Much as he'll convince the Senate that the Jedi were behind the Clone Wars, he'll do this in effort to bring the Rebel Alliance to its end.

But all along, he'll have this weapon, just waiting to be used, but he can't because the Senate won't allow it. But the minute the Senate is distilled, as I said because several Senators (Alderanns seat, Mon Mothma, several others) were not only showing sympathy towards the Rebellion but were behind the Rebellion. Thus why the local systems did not fear the Empire, because the ultimate weapon was kept from use.

Palps' "Group of Death", if you will, decided to use it and to use it on the planet that held the Rebel Base. Leia, however refused to tell them the location, until the threat of using her homeworld of Alderaan (which was the leading planet behind the Rebel Alliance) was suggested. They proceeded to deystroy Alderaan anyway, and it was discovered that the Rebel Base (which was once on Dantooine) had been deserted.

All of this suggests that the Death Star had something to do with the rise of the Empire (rather it was fully operational or not quiet yet completed, could be either), but until ANH it was not allowed to be used.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 16 2002, 03:40 AM
The second Death Star, whichj was nearly twice the size of the first, took less than a year to build. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
Which would make an 18+ year construction period for the original seem extremely odd.

Nothing in that line of Tarkin's suggested that the Death Star had been around a while. If it had, it would have been used. There's not a single person that could prevent Sidious from using of it. He was the Emperor and did whatever he wanted.

[Darth Vegas]

He could not use it until after the Senate was distilled, that much is clear.

For a more scientific answer why it wasn't used:

Eventually the continual use of such a weapon would totally rip apart the galaxy as gravity would fail.

Also I don't think GL would have put that little tease of the Death Star in AOTC, if he wasn't going to elaborate on it in EPisode 3.

[actionjack29]

The Senate doesn't even know about the construction of the first Death Star. Only rumors at best. Besides Sidious couldn't have used it before EpIV because it wan't complete yet!!! It was officially completed just before they Blow up Alderaan.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 16 2002, 10:32 PM
He could not use it until after the Senate was distilled, that much is clear.
Why would that be the case? If the Senate had that much influence, there would be no reason for a rebellion.

[Darth Vegas]

Several Senators are leading the Rebellion!!!!!!!!!!

Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, Princess Leia, the list goes on............

Palpatine's reason for distilling of the Senate is not only so he can use the ultimate weapon, but because the Senators are secretly ploting against him, and he discovers this.

Even in Imperial Rome, the Senate (which was also plotting against its emporer) still had much influence over the affairs of the Empire for quiet a while, until the Senate finally done away with, and the fall of Rome proceeded.

Much of Star Wars is based upon those events. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 17 2002, 03:49 AM
Even in Imperial Rome, the Senate (which was also plotting against its emporer) still had much influence over the affairs of the Empire for quiet a while, until the Senate finally done away with, and the fall of Rome proceeded.
That might be the case, but we're not talking about Rome. Sidious is a far more evil, and far more powerful, individual than any Emperor in Earth's history. I don't see him allowing the Senate or any other group to influence his decisions that much.

And if he did need the Senate abolished to use the Death Star, then he'd do that as soon as the station was operational. It makes no sense to order the construction of a station of great cost and effort that can't even be used because the Senate won't allow it.

If construction begins in epIII, there's no reason why it should only be put to use by the time of ANH. It would be ready far before then. I would say for sure that construction began well after the events of epIII.

[Darth Vegas]

Star Wars is based off of Rome. GL has commented on that many times. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

Palpatine is not allowing the Senate to influence him, but the Senate still is in power, Palpatine does not yet have full power until during ANH.

The Senate will not allow the Death Star to be used, and Palp can't just go around deystroying planets, gravity would fail, the galaxy would be torn apart!!!!!!!!!

The Empire planned on using the Death Star to end the Rebellion with great fear of its use, they were not ever planning on deystroying a bunch of planets, only one to warn them, and more if the Rebellion continued. They could not do so until after the Senate was rid of. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Darth Vegas]

You also have to realize that the Empire is no match for the trillions and trillions of people that inhabit the many worlds of the galaxy.

If Palpatine rose to full power to soon, they would realize that he's the bad guy, he was the man behind it all along. Few people no who he really is, and Palpatine needs to keep it that way.

If Palps' tried anything that seemed out of line, the whole galaxy would rebel against him and he would fail.

Palps' is using the Senate, and the Imperial Armies for his uses, they think, as Anakin that he's a good man, and he continues to mislead them up to ANH.

[GrandMasterYoda]

It's just a movie, there's no possible way Palpatine could take over the whole galaxy, even with a Death Star!

It's just not possible.

I doubt he could even take the Solar System, yet he does.


Just a movie

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 18 2002, 01:08 AM
If Palps' tried anything that seemed out of line, the whole galaxy would rebel against him and he would fail.
Then exactly what was the point of proclaiming himself Emperor and turning the Republic into an Empire? If he's not going to do anything out of line, then he would have been satisfied as Chancellor, leader of the Republic.

[Jedi Master Shaft]

Totally off topic, but here is some news on Episode III from the latest Star Wars Insider. George Lucas hasn't finished writing the script.

In November, production moves to Australia to begin construction and set up to film.
They start shooting in June.

The design team is cranking out concepts, which are mostly general, right now.

Apparantly, there are some interesting vehicles and about 5 or 6 possible new planets.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tie.gif

[Darth Vegas]

The people view him as a hero, when he declares himself emporer they side with him, but when he finally rids of the Senate and uses the weapon, the people now see that they've been tricked.

He convinces the people that the Jedi are criminals, he convinces them that he is their last hope for a future.

He is misleading the people.

But when he did do something out of line (blow up Alderaan) he was met with more resistance then before. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Master Cephus]

well, Bond, the scientific answer doesn't hold water. There are millions and billions of planets. They are small potatoes for the millions and billions of stars. Now if the sun crusher was let loose in a galaxy for oh say 1000 years, every day destroying a star, then that might happen style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

How about they are making the death star and in Ep. III the jedi or newly formed rebels destroy it before completion. I said that in a post a while back somewhere. Isn't it somewhere about an ancient sith weapon that dooku knows about? Maybe the death star is that weapon...

[Master Cephus]

He controls the whole galaxy politically. The planets especially in the outer rim go along normal day events. Kind of like small villages in african countries. There are people and factions taking over countries there left and right, but the people who live there mostly are not affected because it doesn't matte who is in charge because they are not and they still have to eat and get food for there kids and protect themselves from other villages.

[Darth Vegas]

Well what I posted up there is science fact. It a very delicate tapestry, you remove one thread and another, and slowly the whole thing unravels. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

If the Empire kept deystroying planet after planet, the gravitational equilibrium of the entire galaxy would calapse, it would take alot of destruction in order to do that, but the gravity of every planet and star is supported by those around it.

If the Death Star is that anceint weapon, it would not be deystroyed, GL said the bad guys win this time around.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 18 2002, 02:40 PM
The people view him as a hero, when he declares himself emporer they side with him, but when he finally rids of the Senate and uses the weapon, the people now see that they've been tricked.
It doesn't take the people that long to realize they've been "tricked". Luke says in ANH that he doesn't like the Empire. In fact, he says he hates it. This is before he has any knowledge of the Death Star's existence or the Senate being dismissed.

You're right that the people will be behind him. But by the time the Jedi purge is over, his true colors will be revealed. It won't take 20 years for everyone to realize that.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Shaft@Sep 18 2002, 02:39 PM
5 or 6 possible new planets.

Since no one else has noticed that this was in bold type for a reason I will comment on it.

What new planets does anyone think we will see?

Dagobah?
Alderaan?
Corellia?

Any others anyone can think of?

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by borgmatrix@Sep 18 2002, 09:29 AM
It doesn't take the people that long to realize they've been "tricked". Luke says in ANH that he doesn't like the Empire. In fact, he says he hates it. This is before he has any knowledge of the Death Star's existence or the Senate being dismissed.


Luke's hatred for the Empire does not matter, he knew nothing of the Jedi not even that they exsisted before Ben told him about all that had happened, he was clueless. Besides that, Tatooine is not part of the Empire.

You also have to realize and consider what GL has said about Palps' final move, and how he rids of the Jedi. He said that he sets them up for their fall, and I'm geussing part of that is that he blames the clone wars on them.

Germany considered Hitler a hero, some still do. The citizens of the Empire do not know Palpatines true identity, only a few do, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and maybe Mon Mothma and Bail Organa, the rest are oblivious.

Also years ago GL said something concerning the Rebellion, he said (not exact quote) that people were tricked into serving the Empire, thinking it was a good thing, and woke up one day realizing that it was all a sham.

So yes, they do trust Palpatine for a while, the Empire will win in episode 3, and the Jedi will be seen as the criminals, and they will be hunted down to death, and the people will see it as a good thing. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Sep 18 2002, 04:36 PM
Since no one else has noticed that this was in bold type for a reason I will comment on it.

What new planets does anyone think we will see?

Dagobah?
Alderaan?
Corellia?

Any others anyone can think of?
Dagobah is not new. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Alderaan is almost dfinate to be in the film, I think there have been some official statements on that.

Correlia hasn't even been mentioned in the films, I doubt we'll see it, I don't see any reason for it, but we may.

Lava planet is a must, probably a planet called Serapin, they've got it on Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaings, it's an industrial world ravaged by volcanoes that has been taken over by the Confederacy, (maybe that's where the Death Star is made).

Other than that, they could put anything in there, but I really doubt that they're gonna put 6 more planets in the movie, 3 are gaurenteed, Coruscant, Naboo, and Tatooine, six more new planets on top of Dagobah (if it's in the movie) is too much, unless they are just going to be in the film for a short time, giving Anakin a chance to "see 'em all".

[justafan]

New here, but looking forward to many trips....

Don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, I hope so, as I would like a dialog.

Anyway, a few thoughts on what we know and speculate.

1. Anakin has always been Vader. Like the promos for TPM, where we see Anakin's shadow as Vader's outline, it's there but you have to look for it. Notice how Anakin steps up and advises Sebulba he would be in deep "-". Was that a lie, or was Anakin threatening to use his own physical force? In either case, we can see a little Dark Side showing through. Also in TPM, he doesn't mind bending the rules when QuiGon tells him to find a place and stay put. He sees noting wrong with stealing the fighter and leaving the planet. It is obvious by his statement to R2 that he knows exactly what he is doing. Never mind that the outcome was positive, the fact remains. Then in AOTC we see much more blatant issues, from disrespect toward Obi Wan--the flagrant disregard for Obi Wan's wishes when Anakin jumps out of the speeder, to the temper tantrum with Amedala, to the out and out slaughter of the Sandpeople.

We can see angry behavior in most of the Jedi--Qui Gon obviously has issues, as indicated by Obi Wan's remark about boing on the Counsel already if not for his behavior. What exactly happened I do not know, but something obviously not pleasing to the rest of the Jedi Counsel. Also, when Qui Gon is killed, Obi Wan is infuriated. This may be accelerated by grief and shock, by none the less, his anger is obvious. It is similar to Luke's anger when he is fighting Vader in ROTJ. What would have happened if someone was there to goad Obi Wan on? If Maul had been on something other than a mission to kill, could he have channeled Obi Wan's anger to the Dark Side? (more on that to come). Luke was at a point where he was mature enough and in control enough to make a different decision--Anakin will not be at that point in his growth. Therefore, Vader, or the attitude that Vader embodies, is always there, probably in most Jedi. Being brought up in a controlled environment, their exposure and opportunity to be lulled prior to that point of maturity is virtually nill. What we will see in EpIII will be that decision by Anakin. The Helmet and Cape are secondary to "the becoming", and are part and parcell with the price paid.

2. Regarding what Yoda and Mace know--we need to set the tone first. No arguing there is no balance to the Force--over 2,000 Jedi, and only 2 Sith? Where are the rest of the 1,998+ parts of the Dark Side going to be? Siduous, Dooku (not a Sith IMHO, but we will get there, too), the tree on Dagobah, but where else? Just randomly floating through the universe? Causing kids to skip school? Helping folks do random bad things? Or simply spread evenly across everything in the universe? It has to be somewhere, or at least it has to manifest somewhere. The highest concentration of Good Force is obviously at the Jedi Council. Imagine the Jedi Council is each a halogen work light. Pretty overpowering all together. Now, place one of those "black lights" in the midst. Can't see it, can you? that is what is happening with Siduous. His single Yang is hidden in the collective Yin of the Jedi. What I am trying to say is there is an imbalance of where the Dark Side is vs where the Light is. Once Yoda is separated from the rest of the Jedi, as in ROTJ, his powers fade. He has trouble, or at least it appears he struggles, with lifting the x-wing from the swamp. He certainly doesn't go into the tree, either, nor does he demonstrate what the Force can help you do by jumping and flying through the air himself (movie maker abilities aside, of course). Luke, like Anakin, is strong with the Force, as noted by everyone who comes in contact with him. Luke and Yoda together are strong enough to "summon" Ben as a physical presence. He never shows himself to either when they are alone, only speaks to them (once he is there, he stays after Luke leaves). Where am I going? There is a continuum (sp?) to the Force, which will play into this discussion later. The balance is always there, but the concentration/distribution is not. File this continuum thought for future referrence, as we will return to it at a later time.

Based on this continuum, here's the discussion on what Yoda and Mace know. I haven't gotten deep enough to really get into the Midichlorian count stuff, but as clouded as things are, I believe that Yoda and Mace can, and do, sense there is trouble afoot, long before we are introduced to TPM. Their "are you feeling/thinking/seeing the same thing I am?" glances are tell tale. They both realize that Anakin is the Chosen one, but, because they know what has to happen now to bring balance in the future, they are reluctant to accept. Just like any Mesiah, most often the truth and/or what exactly is going to happen has been told prior to their arrival, and Yoda and Mace are aware of the havoc to come. Not really wanting to subject themselves, or the rest of the universe to what they know is comming, they resist putting the ball of fate in motion. It is inevitible, they know, but they didn't want it to happen on their watch.

They also know/knew about the Dark Side growing, otherwise how would they be so familiar with Dooku and his outlook? (Again, I don't think he is Sith, but that doesn't preclude him from being on the Dark Side, does it? He obviously made his decision after becoming a Jedi, so perhaps he is simply an opportunist. Having the skills does not make one a Jedi, now does it? Maul was not a Jedi, but was "trained in the Jedi arts", isn't that what Qui Gon said?). There is a lot about The Force that remains a mystery to all of us. Perhaps the Council is privy to some "holy" book of the Force, or maybe they (Yoda and Mace) have divination gifts--who knows. The point is that somewhere, somehow, those two were made aware of what was to come, what was going to happen, and who was involved. If the Emperor has forseen Luke's destiny, what can't the others? (I will cover how the Emperor can be so powerful by himself later). Let's look at another example. Neither seemed surprised about the Clone army. They, and the rest of the Republic, certainly embraced the army of Clones, and apparantly is putting them to their good use. I think they (Y & M) were aware of the army's design and purchase. They didn't seem to concerned to keep it a secret from Obi Wan, did they, by sending him right to it. That was an easy way to "discover" the army. But, they did seem surprised to hear Sypho Dius was responsible. Who/what is Sypho Dius? Much speculation as to whether or not he is Siduous has been posted. I think Sypho Dius is not a person, but a code. Remember L A Confidential? How there was this imaginary person who killed the LTs father? And how Jack told Chief that name as code to the LT? I think that is what Sypho Dius is. It was written somewhere, or handed down, that SD would be a symbol, a marker, a sign, that the big shin dig was about to go down. "And his number shall be three hundred, three score, and six", or something like that. We can see, throughout TPM and AOTC that Yoda and Mace are witnessing exactly what they knew was going to happen. They never once showed surprise, or any inability to make a decision as to what was going to happen, either by them, or by their opposition, whatever those may have been.

Need to close for now, but will continue to post my thoughts at a later time.

Thanks for listening....

[MegoHulk]

Wow...very well thought out...although you were wrong on one part. Luke saw Obi Wan by himself on Hoth, remember? I really liked your post, and the thought that Mace and Yoda know whats going on, it would explain alot. Sifo Dyus was an actual Jedi Master though, but as you pointed out it might not actaully be HIM.

[Martini]

ohhhhhhhh please. gimme a break. all jedis try not to act surprised because they are the rulers of the universe. thats all. if GL made them look like wimps, the movies wouldnt work. your thinking way too much into this topic

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 19 2002, 06:34 AM
Also years ago GL said something concerning the Rebellion, he said (not exact quote) that people were tricked into serving the Empire, thinking it was a good thing, and woke up one day realizing that it was all a sham.

So yes, they do trust Palpatine for a while, the Empire will win in episode 3, and the Jedi will be seen as the criminals, and they will be hunted down to death, and the people will see it as a good thing. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
I'm aware of all that. What I'm saying is that it doesn't take 20 years for everyone to "wake up."

[justafan]

My dear Martini, isnt' that the purpose of this forum, to post and discuss what we think, or what we have thoughts about? There are deep thinkers, such as myself, and shallow thinkers, such as, well, I think you get the picture. I appreciate your viewpoint, but not at the sacrifice of common courtesy. Please point out my errors in a compassionate manner, and I will be glad to accept your constructive critisism. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/inlove.gif

Anyway, back to my thoughts.

If I remember correctly, Y + M did act surprised when they heard about Sypho Sius. They certainly seemed surprised when they heard about the Sith and Maul. In any case, I stand believing that Y, M, and possibly others have knowledge of actions to come.

About the continuum, now. Since there has to be as much Light as there is Dark (otherwise, how would there be a balance?), where is all that Dark? We've covered why the JC couldn't "smell" Siduous, and this spills over to Maul. They were aware of Dooku, however, so there must have been something that was made public knowledge (at least to the Jedi) about his going Dark. We have also established that being strong in the Force didn't automatically make you a Jedi, or provided Jedi training. Qui Gon had to argue for Anakin's training. So Siduous has all these Midichlorians and nowhere to go. Wouldn't it be easy, without proper guidance, to slip into the Dark side? So, that leaves those 1,998 parts of the Dark side for a complete Balance. With that Dark spread out, causing all the truancy and speeding and cheating on their taxes, the good, which was concentrated with the Jedi, obviously had the upperhand. But we have learned that together there is power. Match Siduous with Anakin, and there you have it. Two can handle together more than what each can handle separately. (try picking up half of a piano by yourself. Can't. Have someone else help you on a complete piano and you lift it. Same thing). So how did their power grow? Add a black light to our previous example, then, systematically detroy the remaining halogen lights. Then, take the pwer that was used to light those, and transfer it to the two black lights. Now, we have the same power, fewer lights, and much more black light showing. Isn't this what happened with Siduous, Vader, and the remaining Jedi?

See, the Light was now not concentrated, and was thinning out through the universe. This allowed, pushed, if you will, the Dark to coagulate. S + V then became magnets of sorts, drawing the Dark force to themselves. Of course, they couldn't have the same concentration as the entire Jedi population, but they did have a "corner on the market" for The Force, as there were no practicing Jedis. Therefore, the continuum remains, the "power" has simply shifted. No balance, at least yet. Remember, while the Jedi were indeed in power, in abundance, and leaned toward "good", there was more peace and harmony. Once the shift began--the rise/return of the Sith, Siduous climb to power, Anakin's development--a general feeling of malaise, distrust, and a certain blindness grew. Regimes aside, notice how deftly Palpatine explains what happens in the Senate to Amidala. The members of the Senate were either in cohoots, or simply didn't care. Once the shift to the Dark was almost complete, it was easy to remove the senate and create the Empire. The government wasn't considered wrong, the "Rebels" were. Until Luke turned Vader, and the Emperor was destroyed, that Dark force remained concentrated, and not spread out. Vader himself didn't bring balance, his presence and life created the situation where balance could come forth. He simply made it possible to eliminate the polarization of the Dark and Light, to allow for a true balance.

More to come on other topics....

Thanks for listening.

[Martini]

anyone here wonder why Sidious was only in the last scene of AOTC and not anymore then that? i REALLY wish there was more of him in that movie. i think that in EP3, we will get just as much of him as we did in ROTJ. so ill be happy

[justafan]

Let's shift gears and discuss what I think happens in Ep III.

The Clone wars are not making any progress for our intrepid heroes. Palpatine, now Chancelor, enlists the aid of the Jedi. Some are torn, as they are defenders, not attackers, but some succumb to their feelings of patriotism ("that's what you said when Biggs left for the academy"), and are given based on their experience ("General Kenobi, you fought with...."). Once the Jedi's help has been enlisted, the war goes south. Maybe a Jedi decision cost an important battle, maybe the lack of involvement of all the Jedi created a terrible deficit, in any case, the Jedi have now become scapegoats. For those who were fighting, their ineptitude or their overwhelming compassion as defenders of the galaxy have now become reasons for hatred by the galaxy. For those who didn't fight, they were now cowards, not worthy of the status of Jedi. Whichever side they were on, the Jedi are now at fault. What better set up for Palpatine to gain public support for the demise of the Jedi? Palpatine could introduce Bounty Hunters, perhaps a team of hunters, let's say, Boba Fett and some hot shot named Vader. Of course, this would all take place after the rise of the Empire, because we all know that Ben told Luke that a young Jedi named Vader helped the Empire hunt down the Jedi. (of course this brings up the discussion as to when did Vader become a Jedi, but we can talk about that later, as well as the time frame. I know GL advised only a few years after AOTC, but there needs to be more time between to set the stage properly. Remember, by the time of ANH, the Force is considered an old religion, and there was no room in the galaxy for it. Vader was disturbed by the lack of faith....).

So the Clone wars are being lost, the Jedi are being blamed, and the Rebelion is taking shape. The Death Star is being built at some remote location, perhaps a lava planet. The Jedi team up to protect themselves, and to give one last hurrah to save the Galaxy from the Empire. Anakin is given full Jedi status, and teams with Mace to search out the Sith. Yoda and Obi Wan team up and head in a different direction--to meet with the Rebellion leaders (Organa, Mothma, Binks, Ackbar, and similar ilk) to discuss strategy or to confirm support/consolidation. Mace and Anakin easily make way with Dooku. Upon confronting Siduous, Mace reveals that he knew Palpatine was Siduous. Then, Siduous reveals that Anakin is Vader, who has been hunting and killing the Jedi. Mace is not surprised, and turns his attention to Vader. The two fight, and before killing Mace, Vader taunts him, and then tortures him, and then kills him. Siduous then pronounces Vader as Sith Lord, and bestows the title of Darth upon him. Meanwhile, during the discussions, Yoda feels the disturbance in the force when Mace is killed. He announces that Anakin has turned, and is responsible for the killing. He also announces that Palpatine is Siduous, and explains to the Rebels about the Death Star, and the extinction of the Jedi. All faces turn to Amidala, who is on the verge of birth. In private, Yoda asks her if Vader knows it is twins she carries, and she says no, but wonders how Yoda knows. He swears her to secrecy about the second child. Upon their birth, much ado is made about the male child, and it is given to Obi Wan to hide. The other child, a female, is given to the Organa's after Obi Wan leaves and goes to Tatooine. He assumes that this is the last place Vader would look for his son, if indeed it came to that. He speaks with the Lars, who are not pleased with the siuation, especially Owen, who basically refuses to get involed. Beru, however, falls instantly in love with Luke, and the bond is set. Owen advises Obi Wan to never show himself again on Tatooine, and to forget about the boy. In her horror of Anakin's turn, and grief of losing husband and both children, Amidala secludes herself on an unmentioned planet.

On Tatooine, Obi Wan gets a communication from Yoda to head to the lava planet to confront Vader and get the plans to the Death Star. Obi Wan gets there, and, no surprise, Vader is waiting. They discuss what has happened, Vader asks about his son, Obi Wan says he is safe. He continues to call him Anakin, and tries to pull him back from the Dark side. Vader explains that Anakin is dead, along with the rest of the Jedi, and that a new order of Jedi is upon them. Obi Wan plays the Master/Padawin card, Vader laughs, and begins an incredible battle. Both are stretched to their limits. In some fashion, Vader falls, into a hole or over a cliff, and dangles. He calls to Obi Wan to help him, recants his Dark ways, and swears allegiance to the Light for his wife and his child. Obi wan reaches to help, takes Vader's hand, and, being prepared, deflects the blow from Vaders sword. In this split second of defense, he releases Vader, who now realizes that he has been let go, and falls in horror to the waiting bottom. The deflection threw Vader's sabre to the edge, and after a tirade of grief and anger, Obi Wan retrieves it. He makes a vow to never go by the name Obi Wan again, as a form of self-punishment for losing a master and a padiwan, and for not being able to stop the demise of the Jedi. He then returns to Tatooine, where he sets himself up as protector of the young Skywalker. As Vader climbs back up, burnt and broken, Siduous appears. In a breathy, struggled tone, Vader asks, "What is thy bidding, my Master?"

*

Of course, this is all from my mind, but it makes sense when looking at the next three movies. The table has to be set completely in EpIII, otherwise, the next three don't make sense. Throw in a few new charachters in mix, introduce side connections with our old favorites, a lot of SFX, and there you have it.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by borgmatrix@Sep 19 2002, 07:14 AM
I'm aware of all that. What I'm saying is that it doesn't take 20 years for everyone to "wake up."
Well no, but it takes 19 years (its not twenty, Luke and Leia are both 18 in ANH) before the Rebellion wins its first conflict against the Empire.

See: ANH crawl. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 20 2002, 06:18 AM
Well no, but it takes 19 years (its not twenty, Luke and Leia are both 18 in ANH) before the Rebellion wins its first conflict against the Empire.
When I said 20, I meant approximately.

Earlier, you said:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The Empire planned on using the Death Star to end the Rebellion with great fear of its use, they were not ever planning on deystroying a bunch of planets, only one to warn them, and more if the Rebellion continued. They could not do so until after the Senate was rid of. [/b][/quote]

But now you're saying it took 19 years for the Rebellion to win a conflict.

If the purpose of the Death Star was to end the Rebellion, construction would not have begun as far back as epIII, since the Rebel Alliance had yet to achieve any success. In fact, it probably wasn't even in existence yet. You yourself said that the people were fooled by Palpatine for a long period of time.

So if the Death Star was to end the Rebellion, it would only be constructed when needed. In other words, just before ANH, when the Rebels are beginning to have more impact.

[MegoHulk]

I think it takes several years to create a DS at least. A project of that magnitude would take thousands of workers to build it.I'm gonna say it takes at least 6 years...the time frame between ANH and ROTJ.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by MegoHulk@Sep 20 2002, 02:41 PM
I think it takes several years to create a DS at least. A project of that magnitude would take thousands of workers to build it.I'm gonna say it takes at least 6 years...the time frame between ANH and ROTJ.
That makes sense to me.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by MegoHulk@Sep 20 2002, 06:41 AM
I think it takes several years to create a DS at least. A project of that magnitude would take thousands of workers to build it.I'm gonna say it takes at least 6 years...the time frame between ANH and ROTJ.
There is only 3 years between ANH and ROTJ, at least thats what GL said. ???

[Martini]

id like to see at the end of EP3, the showing of both death stars being made. one as a back up and with better technology.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by borgmatrix@Sep 20 2002, 05:50 AM
Earlier, you said:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The Empire planned on using the Death Star to end the Rebellion with great fear of its use, they were not ever planning on deystroying a bunch of planets, only one to warn them, and more if the Rebellion continued. They could not do so until after the Senate was rid of.

But now you're saying it took 19 years for the Rebellion to win a conflict.

If the purpose of the Death Star was to end the Rebellion, construction would not have begun as far back as epIII, since the Rebel Alliance had yet to achieve any success. In fact, it probably wasn't even in existence yet. You yourself said that the people were fooled by Palpatine for a long period of time.

So if the Death Star was to end the Rebellion, it would only be constructed when needed. In other words, just before ANH, when the Rebels are beginning to have more impact.[/b][/quote]
You are really not getting my point.

You should go back and read my first post on this topic, it will really be enlightening.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif


Sure it took that long before the Rebel alliance began winning agianst the Empire, but the Death Star, I do not think was built just to deal with the Rebel Alliance,in fact most like ly it was built before the Allaince came to be, the years between AOC and episode 3, it really makes alot of sense.

You just have to realize a few things, the ot takes place over a course of about four years ROTJ being a year or less after ESB, and the second Death Star (which was alot bigger than than the first) took only that time between ESB and ROTJ to build.

Being that episode 3 is about 2-4 years after AOTC I am willing to say that the first might have taken a bit longer, like 3 years, but not 6.

Also I made it clear that my theory involves a Death Star that was built by the Separatists (who interestingly are refered to as the Rebellion in several cut scenes in AOTC), and maybe taken by he Republic, thus ending the Clone Wars.

You guys sound like you don't want the Death Star to be in episode 3, why the hell not!!!!!!!!!! I gauruntee you in some way shape or form it will be, and it won't be long before we got the script to prove it. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Martini@Sep 20 2002, 10:23 AM
id like to see at the end of EP3, the showing of both death stars being made. one as a back up and with better technology.
Were not going to see it, however it would be cool.

The crawl for ROTJ clearly states that the Empire had just begun construction on a "new armored space station, even more powerful than the first dreaded DEATH STAR".

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 20 2002, 06:32 PM
Also I made it clear that my theory involves a Death Star that was built by the Separatists (who interestingly are refered to as the Rebellion in several cut scenes in AOTC), and maybe taken by he Republic, thus ending the Clone Wars.
Sidious controls the Separatists and won't order or allow them to build the Death Star, because he wants the Republic to win. My guess is that the Trade Federation, Commerce Guild (is that right?), and any others on the Separatist side will be completely destroyed by the time the wars over. Or at least all the droid armies and droid factories. Sidious doesn't want the Separatists to win, nor does he care about them, so he's not going to allow construction of a battle station like the Death Star.

[Darth Vegas]

No he doesn't want them to won, but the Republic lacks the machinatiopn to build the Death Star, they lost most of their Industrial Organizations to the Separatists.

Sidious is using the Separatists for his own means, and I say he's using them to build him a weapon.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 20 2002, 07:08 PM
No he doesn't want them to won, but the Republic lacks the machinatiopn to build the Death Star, they lost most of their Industrial Organizations to the Separatists.
Which is fine, because Palpatine doesn't need a Death Star in epIII.

[Darth Barrister]

As we discuss the possibility of the DS,

Will there be any vehicles from the OT in Ep. III?

Such as tie fighters, x-wings, star destroyers (as we know them)

or super star destroyers?

what about my favorite, the Falcon?

Any, thoughts?

[Darth Vegas]

We have already seen proto-type star deystroyers and tie fighters.

The Republic assualt ships in AOTC a direct lead to the star deystroyers, and the Sith Infiltrator and the Jedi Starfighter (opens up for attack mode and looks like a tie, notice that it didn't attack in AOTC) both proto-ties. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[ReturnoftheWhill]

Yeah you would need overwhelming man power to build the DS. The only way to get that is by using the Trade Federation. After Sidious is done using them, he will arrest a bunch of citizens and use them. The Senate will be forced to follow his commands. I don't know what he will do to make the people obey him, other then siege Coruscant

[Kael]

As a new member to this site i am a little weary about posting an opinion, but id say that Darth Vader was a name that anikan most likely picks after he turns to the Dark side. which if lucas even decides to put in the movie it will most likely be at the very end and in some sort of a dramatic way, and it is obvious that the fact that darth wipes out all or most of the jedi that he must be well known around the galaxy. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel.gif

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The Republic assualt ships in AOTC a direct lead to the star deystroyers, and the Sith Infiltrator and the Jedi Starfighter (opens up for attack mode and looks like a tie, notice that it didn't attack in AOTC) both proto-ties. [/b][/quote]

Look at the TF Droid Fighters from TPM, they looked too much TIE fighters to not have some part in their ancestry. Also, look closely at the Republic Gunships. White and red, the same coloring on the Rebel X-wings. Also, find a pic of the gunship seen directly from above, and you will be amazed at how much the top of the gunship in general shape, engine placement, and patterns, resembles the rebel X-wings from above.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Tovor@Sep 26 2002, 09:01 PM
Look at the TF Droid Fighters from TPM, they looked too much TIE fighters to not have some part in their ancestry. Also, look closely at the Republic Gunships. White and red, the same coloring on the Rebel X-wings. Also, find a pic of the gunship seen directly from above, and you will be amazed at how much the top of the gunship in general shape, engine placement, and patterns, resembles the rebel X-wings from above.
Since it is made quite clear that Sidious had Dooku 'steal' the plans for the Death Star from the Geonosians, then it would be safe to assume that the plans for TIE Fighters and Star Destroyers were also stolen from other groups as well, i.e. the Trade Federation.

[Tovor]

Exactly. To the victor go the spoils. When the Republic defeats the Seperatists, Palpatine inherits/steals all their weaponry and equipment, and from that point melds aspects of all the designs into one series of ships and ship types to form a consistant fleet for the Empire.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Tovor@Sep 26 2002, 01:01 PM
Look at the TF Droid Fighters from TPM, they looked too much TIE fighters to not have some part in their ancestry.
I don't think there's any connection between tie's and droid starfighters, they reall do not look anything alike.

But the Sith Infiltrator and the Jedi Star fighter in attack mode, they look exactly like tie fighters.

[Darth Barrister]

I think Tarkin will be present in Ep.III.
Do you think we'll see Admiral Ackbar or Mon Motha?
or any OT characters for that matter.

(excluding those of you that think Padme is Mon Motha)

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Darth Barrister@Sep 28 2002, 02:09 AM
I think Tarkin will be present in Ep.III.
Do you think we'll see Admiral Ackbar or Mon Motha?
or any OT characters for that matter.

(excluding those of you that think Padme is Mon Motha)
Are you trying to say that my opinion, just because I keep an open mind that there is a possibility that Padme could be made out to be Mon Mothma, doesn't count?

That would be considered some sort of profiling against someone because you do not agree with their ideas wouldn't it?

The funny thing is.............if you had left out the final statement in parentheses, then I wouldn't have even bothered to respond. But because you chose to "exclude" individuals such as myself from responding, I'm ready to participate now.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Sep 28 2002, 07:49 AM
That would be considered some sort of profiling against someone because you do not agree with their ideas wouldn't it?
I don't think that's what Barrister meant at all. The question was asked whether anyone thinks Mon Mothma would be in epIII. For those that think Mon Mothma is Padme, it wouldn't make sense to have that question asked, because they're the same person. If Padme's in epIII, which we know she will be, then of course Mon Mothma would also be because they're the same.

That's why the question was directed to those that feel they're not the same person, because for them, there would be some debate over an appearance in epIII. At least that's the way I'm interpreting it. I don't think any disrespect was intended.

[DblDwn]

I know what he meant by the question. I was being sarcastic in my post.

It was more my way to get into the conversation so that I could comment on other possibilities and comment on other people's ideas.

That was all. I really wasn't trying to be rude nor did I ever believe that Barrister was attempting to do so either.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Sep 28 2002, 04:43 PM
That was all. I really wasn't trying to be rude nor did I ever believe that Barrister was attempting to do so either.
Sorry about that. Misinterpretation on my part.

[Darth Vegas]

I don't know about Ackbar, but I defineately think we'll see Mon Mothma (a.k.a. Padme http://216.40.241.68/contrib/ruinkai/shinner.gif) maybe even pregnant with twins? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif :dunce:

[Darth Barrister]

Exactly, if Padme is Mon, the question would be moot.

I am surprised we haven't really seen any wookies in the prequels. (I think they may be in the senate scenes if you pause and look really close). It would be nice to see a wookie.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by borgmatrix@Sep 28 2002, 12:24 PM
Sorry about that. Misinterpretation on my part.
No problem at all.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Darth Barrister@Sep 29 2002, 10:20 AM
I am surprised we haven't really seen any wookies in the prequels. (I think they may be in the senate scenes if you pause and look really close). It would be nice to see a wookie.
There were wookies in the Senate in both TPM and AOTC, they were right in view in TPM.

[Darth Omen]

First off I would like to say bravo for so many great ideas about the next film. There are a ton of spectacular plot twists and character revelation ideas out there. My personal favorite is the Dagobah = Naboo theory. I love it. Another good one is that Palpy and Sideous are two different people. However, the only problem with all these ideas is that they are coming from the minds of the fans and not GL. We are giving GL way to much creative credit. If it is one thing that is apparent in all 5 movies so far is that they are all pretty simple and straightforward. Which makes sense since they are really made for kids to enjoy. GL doesn't jerk your mind around and try to make you think too much during his movies. And that is exactly what we are all doing, thinking way too much!

I know, people will argue that Vader revealing to Luke that he is his father was a huge twist ..... But was it really? Remember, in the mind of GL, these movies were meant to be watched in order. So by the time we were watching ESB, we all ready new Vader was Luke's father. Same holds true for Leia being Luke's sister.

All I can say is that the next movie is going to be fun, exciting, action packed, humorous etc.... but what it won't be is some awsome plot twisted thriller we seem to be longing from GL. It just really isn't George's motif.

[MegoHulk]

Well said, but it will probably fall on deaf ears here. You are right though...GL does tell a straight forward story, and some people don't like to admit it. I'm sure all of us could write out a basic outline for whats going to happen without going overboard. I guess it's kinda fun to imagine some of these things happening though. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Darth Omen@Sep 30 2002, 11:13 AM
My personal favorite is the Dagobah = Naboo theory. I love it. Another good one is that Palpy and Sideous are two different people.
This is my favorite guy right here.

Finally someone who likes BOTH of my main ideas that I have been heckled with by mostly everyone for quite some time.

The fact that he doesn't think that they will happen is beside the point. To be honest I don't even think that they will happen I just would like to see something this creative and unexpected in Episode III. The key here is that he read these ideas and excepted them as both creative and unexpected, as I said above, while at the same time realizing that they could also be done while following the storyline of the entire saga.

Many Kudos to you Darth Omen and welcome.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Oct 1 2002, 05:32 AM
To be honest I don't even think that they will happen I just would like to see something this creative and unexpected in Episode III.
You don't think Palpatine and Sidious will end up being different people? I thought you believed there was a better chance of this revelation than of the two being the same.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by borgmatrix@Oct 1 2002, 06:59 AM
You don't think Palpatine and Sidious will end up being different people? I thought you believed there was a better chance of this revelation than of the two being the same.
Thank you for noticing that. I guess after drinking beer and watching that roach football game last night I must have came home and incorrectly stated that.

I meant to say that I don't think that Naboo will end up becoming Dagobah, but I would love to see something that imaginative occur in the movie.

I am still 110% convinced that Sidious and Palpatine are two different people.

[Darth Vegas]

"What makes you think that?"

Other than the fact that you want a surprise twist, what in the movies makes you think this way Dbldwn?

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Oct 1 2002, 08:40 AM
Other than the fact that you want a surprise twist, what in the movies makes you think this way Dbldwn?
It's not even about the surprise twist really, it's just that this is what I believe.

It is clear to me that Sifo-Dyas is Sidious. He felt that the Jedi were becoming weak and chose to turn to the Dark Side of the Force because it is 'stronger', he left his spot on the Jedi Council, faked his 'death' in order to eliminate suspicion from himself, he ordered the clone army using his Jedi name so that the Jedi would be blamed for the creation of the clone army, and he managed to persuade fellow one-time Jedi Count Dooku to join him when he needed a new apprentice (right hand man).

Being as that I believe this to be fact, then I must chose between three different paths for Palpatine. Either Palpatine is also Sifo-Dyas, he is a clone of him, or he is in no way related or derived from Sifo-Dyas. Although I have argued for all three in various threads I still am not completely convinced that all three (Sifo-Dyas, Sidious, and Palpatine) are the same person.

I could see how Palpatine could be a clone of Sifo-Dyas because that way Sifo-Dyas would basically have his way throughout the Senate once the clone became Chancellor. But, although I have argued for it, I still am not completely convinced that the Jedi would not recognize Palpatine if he was a clone of Sifo-Dyas. I could see where it could be explained so that it did work but I still am not convinced.

That leaves me with Sifo-Dyas and Palpatine being two seperate people. I can see how it would work, how it could be explained, and how most viewers have been fooled.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Oct 1 2002, 03:38 PM
Thank you for noticing that.
No problem. I thought you were most likely referring to the Dagobah theory alone, but I just wanted to be sure. I was confused for a moment.

You're right that Sifo-Dyas, Sidious, and Palpatine are most likely not the same man. There are ways to explain it, such as AgentBond's ideas of shapeshifting or holo-emitters, but like you said, it's not entirely convincing.

I would prefer to see Sidious=Palpatine. With Vader, we already have a former Jedi turned Sith, so I think it would be good to see Sidious as a politician, instead of former Jedi. Plus, I loved the moment in TPM when Palpatine put his hand on young Anakin's shoulder, saying "We'll be watching your career with great interest." It seemed like a nice nod to the fact that the two would one day be Master and Apprentice. I enjoyed the Palpatine/Anakin scene in AOTC for the same reason. I'd hate to see those scenes lose that double-meaning that they carried if Palpatine is just a politician controlled by Sidious.

It'll be interesting to see what happens though.

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah you're right about that Borg, those scenes would have no point otherwise.

But Darth Maul was "trained in the Jedi arts" his Master had to have once been a Jedi in order to train him in the Jedi arts.

[MegoHulk]

But Darth Maul was "trained in the Jedi arts" his Master had to have once been a Jedi in order to train him in the Jedi arts.

That not entirely true...the Jedi arts as Qui Gonn might put it , are use of a lightsaber and some use of the force. That in no way proves he was trained by a Jedi, only that he he has Jedi skills. Sidious obviously has Jedi skills and he was the one who trained Maul...that doesn't mean Sidious was a former Jedi. At this point we just don't know, but theres a 99% chance Palpy and Sidious are the same guy...it just makes more sense than throwing another bad guy who looks like Palpy.

[MegoHulk]

oops double posted style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by MegoHulk@Oct 2 2002, 07:50 PM
That not entirely true...the Jedi arts as Qui Gonn might put it , are use of a lightsaber and some use of the force. That in no way proves he was trained by a Jedi, only that he he has Jedi skills.
Right. And we should also keep in mind that the first Sith was a former Jedi. So the Sith are obviously heavily influenced by the Jedi.

[Jedi D'oh]

absolutely borgmatrix. the sith were originally a bunch of disillusioned jedi who wanted something new. they delved in the darkside and subjugated a people known as the Sith. hence the name Lord Of The Sith.

After many coups and bloodshed, the 2 sith rule was put into effect. so its obvious that sith teachings evolved from jedi teachings.

the sith wanted a galactic takeover, but the jedi always won. sidious(palpatine) waited patiently, biding his time and becoming a senator. manipulating things to go his way, he was able to sit in the hot seat of the republic and eventually rule the governing body of the galaxy.

so the sith won in the end. but then luke came along and the reat is history, as they say.

some may say this is "eu crap" but how else to explain the sith? did sidious just say, "Hi guys. I'm a sith."?

i don't think so. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel.gif

[maddog62]

Maybe a good 2 Sith rule explaination.
Maybe Bane was the Last of the Known Sith the one who started the Two Sith Rule. Maybe the Jedi defeated him but during the investigation they figure out the rule. They probably recovered the Holocron which was somewhat unlocked by the jedi Leaving much to be discovered. Locked up in the Jedi Archives Sifo-Dyas and or Dooku unlock the mystery of the holocron and are enchanted by the power of the darkside. Using the sith teachings as a guide they are able to hide there DS intentions and cary out there plan. JUST SPECULATION.

[maddog62]

I think the reasons that Obi-Wan and Yoda hide on the particular planets they choose is directly involved with specific events that have happened on those planets and to be more precise in the areas that they live. My theory is supported by facts and let me line them up for you.
(1) What we know. Obi-Wan lives in the Judland Wastes in ANH
(2) The Judland wastes is the area were Shimi Skywalker is tortured and killed, hence leading Skywalker in the Direction of Darkness.
(3) Yoda lives in Dagoban(sp???) near the mysterious CAVE.
We all know something is up with the cave but what.
(4) Now 4 speculation. I think that the CAVE is ultimately were Anikan will Fall to the Darkside I think he will Loose Padme in a very similar way to his Mom pushing him over the edge.
(5) Starting to get deep now so hold on if you can. You have to places in the Galaxy that are pent up with Anikan Skywalkers two most Darkest Hours. (Lots of Darkside Energy)
(6) I stole this quote because its good and I can't think of anything better right now. So if its yours get your people to call my people Where better to do a crime but right in front of the POLICE station. Jedi knights are able to hide it these areas because it is so overwhelmed with dark energy that the light energy of just one Jedi would be covered and concealed very easily. The Darkside is so abundant that it acts like a umbrella and shields the Jedi's energy from Vader and the Emperor.
(7) This is why I believe that Sidious was also Sifo-Dyas Jedi Master. The Jedi Temple is so full of Light Energy that when people like Sifo-Dyas and Dooku go and do there dark side deeds(Sith studies on holocrons and erasing Genosis from the map) they are shielded by the Lightside making their actions undetectable to the Jedi.
(8) I will believe that this cover and concealment method is discovered through the Sith Holocron in the Jedi archives. (I do think the Novel says that Yoda knew that Dooku was tampering with the Holocron and that he tried to indocterate some Sith methods into his Jedi Powers) So I believe that Yoda will open the holocron and discover how the Sith were able to infiltrate the Jedi Temple and then use the same method to hide from the Empire for 20+ years.
So OK folks I got my shield up for the backlash so Holla Back.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by maddog62@Oct 2 2002, 06:45 PM
Maybe a good 2 Sith rule explaination.
Maybe Bane was the Last of the Known Sith the one who started the Two Sith Rule. Maybe the Jedi defeated him but during the investigation they figure out the rule. They probably recovered the Holocron which was somewhat unlocked by the jedi Leaving much to be discovered. Locked up in the Jedi Archives Sifo-Dyas and or Dooku unlock the mystery of the holocron and are enchanted by the power of the darkside. Using the sith teachings as a guide they are able to hide there DS intentions and cary out there plan. JUST SPECULATION.
That sounds like a good idea to me. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Jedi D'oh]

Originally posted by maddog62@Oct 3 2002, 02:45 AM
Maybe a good 2 Sith rule explaination.
Maybe Bane was the Last of the Known Sith the one who started the Two Sith Rule. Maybe the Jedi defeated him but during the investigation they figure out the rule. They probably recovered the Holocron which was somewhat unlocked by the jedi Leaving much to be discovered. Locked up in the Jedi Archives Sifo-Dyas and or Dooku unlock the mystery of the holocron and are enchanted by the power of the darkside. Using the sith teachings as a guide they are able to hide there DS intentions and cary out there plan. JUST SPECULATION.
going along with this, sidious was banes apprentice. not sure if bane was killed or just died, but sidious was left as the master. he tok maul as the apprentice.

maddog, i do like your "umbrella" theory. makes sense in many ways. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel.gif

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by jedi-d'oh@Oct 3 2002, 01:55 PM
going along with this, sidious was banes apprentice. not sure if bane was killed or just died, but sidious was left as the master. he tok maul as the apprentice.
I thought Bane was the founder of the Sith Order. If that's the case, he lived thousands of years ago. He couldn't be Sidious' Master.

[Darth Vegas]

Bane was the last of the Sith after their great war with the Jedi, not the founder.

But I think what Maddog is saying up there is that Sifo Dyas (Sidious) and Dooku learned the ways of the Dark Side and continued the SIth tradition through the holocron that was stored in the Jedi Temple.

Who know's if all that EU stuff will hold up in episode 3, GL could change all of it, and just say that Sidious was the first and last Sith, and that he's extremely old, but somehow I doubt he'll go that far.

[Jedi D'oh]

i don't think he'd do that either. mainly cause the jedi know of the sith, they just thouht they had wiped them out.

that's why i think this EU stuff will hold up because Bane was the only survivor and trained sidious. bane could have taken him as a child, too, so the time would fit.

[maddog62]

Bane is not EU he was mentioned in TPM novel and there is info aboput Bane and the 2 sith rule on the OFFICIAL site. I also was not trying to make Bane a point we can call the last of the sith Darth Question because it dosn't matter who he was.

[stazittocagna]

Let me first start off by saying that Palpatine and Sidious are not clones of each other, that just seems ridiculous. It's like this...why make only two when you can make hundreds of thousands? Besides, why have two people do the job of one. One of them has to be in charge and telling the other what to do and say, it's better to just do it with one person. They are the same person

The idea of Sifo-Dyas being a true jedi and being killed in order to use his name to order the clones seems to have merit. As to who used his identity would be a huge mystery (i.e Dooku, Sidious, orsome other). Or he could have just been a traitor, made the order, and then died.

Jango Fett is working for Tyranus and knows that Dooku is his other identity, contrary to what he tells Obi-Wan on Kamino. Tyranus recruited him for the clones. He probably doesn't have much idea about Sidious.

I like maddog's and other peoples's ideas that the Cave on Dagobah is probably a place where Anakin really turns into a bad mother-------.

More later....

[ReturnoftheWhill]

It would ruin the entire saga to have them be clones, or two different people. It makes sense the way it seems to be. Anyone watching from 1-6 for the first time probably won't suspect it. The average person anyway...

[anakin's angel]

Okay about what gandalf said about the vocabulary thing. well I now have a new sn but I posted that a few months ago. I think when Anakin(probably not in the suit yet) will make a speech like that of Hitler! I mean 30's and 40's? It just makes sense. I think he will say it when he is just knightes a sith lord or something! Hope this clears things up!

[Lonesabre]

Clear as mud.

[Darth Vegas]

Episode 3 is only 2 or 3 years after AOTC, Anakin is still in his early twenties when he turns, he's about 40 in ANH and dies when he is approxiamtely 43, as the OT only spans 3 years.

If anyone makes a Hitler like speech, it will be Palpatine, Vader is but a learner and an apprentice, and he is not the type to speak in public like that.

[Siamese Sith]

Bane was mentioned in TPM novel??? I guess I gotta reread it. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif From what I remember Bond's right about Darth Bane being the last of the Sith and all your ideas sound really solid! I only wish they had mentioned something in that library scene about holocrons style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif I believe Bane used something called a "thought bomb" he waited in a.....cave......for an advancing group of Jedi and then let it blow.....? I dunno, think that's right

[MegoHulk]

Just expanding on the Hugh Jackman rumor since the other thread was closed. If it's true, who would he even play?

[JediBendu]

anyone I suppose, but I don't think it's a new Sith warrior.
There's also a rumour that Rob Williams (aka Robbie Williams) has been given a part at the behest of Ewan MacGreggor style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif
almost enough for me to boycott the entire flick

[MegoHulk]

The singer or Robin Williams the actor?

[JediBendu]

the singer style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Siamese Sith]

Oh god Robin Williams the Actor!!NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Having Jimmy Smits is bad enough.
NANU NANU :tears: :eek:

[JediBendu]

Actually, Hugh Jackman wouldn't be that bad at all - I'm betting a Padawan who's master is killed at the end of the war style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[Lonesabre]

Originally posted by Siamese sith@Oct 15 2002, 10:57 PM
Oh god Robin Williams the Actor!!NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Having Jimmy Smits is bad enough.

No, he ment Robbie Williams the British popstar, which is probably just as bad if not worse! At least Robin Williams is an Academy award winner!

As for Hugh Jackman, Id say hes too old for a padawan. My bet would have to be Captain Antillies or some other rogueish character like that. I have heard though that the poor sod that gets his kneck broken by Vader at the start of ANH is Captain Antillies, so this theory could well be wrong.

Why are so many people in the Starwars Universe called Antillies anyway?!?

:look:

[Siamese Sith]

Robbin Williams is really hit or miss with me, loved him in good will hunting and 1 hour photo, but other films he's in totally make me cringe. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif
Well we know that the D.S plans are in good hands since Tyrannus delivered them to Palpidious......maybe if Hugh Jackman is gonna be in episode III he could play Kyle Katarn and steal the plans to the D.S Solid Snake style.

[Lonesabre]

He does look a bit like Katarn from the games actually, although I cant remember his exact back story. I also dont think GL would use someone from the EU as a main character in one of his films. I dont think he has done this already, please correct me if Im wrong though.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Siamese Sith]

I never played the games, (i jumped ship to sony) but I've seen pics of him. All I know is in EU he's the one who steals the D.S plans.
Lucas did take the blue twilek jedi straight from dark horse comics, so there is a chance Jackman could be that new "rogue" pilot who volunteers to infiltrate the "enemy stronghold" to steal the plans. We could have a brief intro to the character in the begining during the final space battle of the clone wars, and then towards the mid/end maybe we could hear a transmission sent to Bail Organa with Yoda and Obi wan in his office.

[MegoHulk]

Actually, I think he'd be a new bounty hunter or perhaps even a senator.

[darthwicker]

Please someone tell me that it is only a joke about Robbie Williams.
For God's sake this cannot be allowed to happen.
Unless of course he's being cast as Jabba's bottom waste, reflecting Robbie's music, we all know how George loves to mirror things.
Still, I'll die happy if he is let no where near the SW set.

[Siamese Sith]

Ohhhh I wanna watch epi VII! the omlette of power!yeah baby!

[Master Cephus]

Just off the top of my head, I would think if Hugh was cast, I would put him as a smuggler...you know pre-Han Solo kind of guy. I know we have talked about this (I don't remember who) but maybe a love triangle begins with Hugh, Padme, and Ani....this could lead him down the dark path....

Other than that, I would say that he is too old to be a padawan, or too ruggish to be a Senator.

Jus My .02 Cents (beau@hiwaay.net)

[Isomorph]

Just in case nobody knew Rick said that Hugh Jackman was not going to be in EP3.

[Siamese Sith]

Just in case nobody knew Rick said that Hugh Jackman was not going to be in EP3.

Thanks for the update, was just entertaining a rumor :sarcasm:

[QUOTE=Just off the top of my head, I would think if Hugh was cast, I would put him as a smuggler...you know pre-Han Solo kind of guy.

[/QUOTE]

kinda like what I said earlier....
Jackman could be that new "rogue" pilot who volunteers to infiltrate the "enemy stronghold" to steal the plans. We could have a brief intro to the character in the begining during the final space battle of the clone wars, and then towards the mid/end maybe we could hear a transmission sent to Bail Organa with Yoda and Obi wan in his office.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Siamese sith@Oct 21 2002, 05:49 PM
Ohhhh I wanna watch epi VII! the omlette of power!yeah baby!
What's the omelet of power?

[Siamese Sith]

I dunno ask megohulk....sounds tasty though. :withstupid:

[MegoHulk]

Watch Ep7 and you'll see. Porkins rules!

[Lonesabre]

So has anyone got an expanded order of running for Ep3 they'd like to share with the rest of us?

Try and start to get some of the rumours into some kind of order again?

Or anymore casting rumours? Did anything come of that rumour I heard about Windus padawan playing a big part in Ep3?

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif Hmmmm

[Jango77]

If anyone does have a running order of sorts, I would love to know!

Where would you get that information - I thought that Lucas hadn't even finished the script yet?

[jaymanchu]

Here's a link to the script from '83 as well as others:

http://www.loresdelsith.net/dagobah/c_clasicos.htm

the website is in Spanish but the script is English. Do a search in Google and Google will translate the site for you.