RIP Star Wars RPG?

[BenRieekan]

Has Wizards of the Coast taken a sidestep into Star Wars Minis at the cost of the pen and paper RPG?

Will ROTS revitalise the license or will they call it a day?

Does anyone care? d20 Star Wars didn't seem to set the SW gaming community on fire, and most people i spoke to prefered the West End Games version.

I'll leave to you all to discuss...

[Kam Solusar]

Even if WotC does, and the West End version does remain, a person or group of people that wish to actually tabletop RPG Star Wars can take a day or so and adapt AD&D. Back in the day, my friends and I did this, because we weren't made of money, and between uis we had enough D&D stuff to give it a shot. Was it perfect? Naw, but neither was the WotC version, either.

As long as you don't do the "okay, well lets change the rules just because" thing, it should work just fine.

[MANVERU]

I'm sorry, did I hear you right?! Is WOTC makin a SW RPG!!!!!!!!

[Sabrina Fried]

Made a SW RPG Sith Lord.

At the risk of turning this into yet another d6 vs d20 debate, Wizards created a d20 version of the SW RPG to coincide with Episode I, releasing beautiful to look at, but not very exciting to play and way too expensive source books starting in about 1999/2000 ish. The books were supplimented by errata and suppliments on the WOTC website, which, to their credit, are both available for free and still active:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/mainrpg/rpg

However, around this time last year they basically said they were not going to publish and sell anything new for the SWRPG for the forseeable future. They are focusing on the pre-painted miniatures and I guess, the CCG cards now.

Honestly, I never cared for the d20 game. I dont know if it was my GM or the system but it just didnt have the same 'fun factor' as d6. In my D6 games, I could go weeks, or months on straight chracter-to-character roleplaying, rarely having to roll anything. For d20 it seemed like I was rolling for every little thing. It was less an exercise in roleplaying than it was math and statistics practice, and it got boring very fast.

Besides, there's something very gratifying about picking a barfight with a character and having to pull our a handful of d6 (literally) to make your roll, to compare to their single die and just watching the player wince...LOL style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

Sabrina

[darth scourge]

No way D20 over D6 any day the only thing about wizards of the coast is theyre tightfistedness over the gaming tools and programs they ban.Theres nothing easier than a GM calculating hyperspace routes with the click of a mouse button on a laptop.I agree the prices are ridiculous and thats why PDF documents exist lol.I think a new revised rulebook for d20 star wars will come out shortly after episode 3.In the roleplaying section of the senate I base my rpgs on d20 star wars obviously without the die rolls but classes and stuff like thatare in there.

[BenRieekan]

I'd agree that the d20 rules system does tend to impose itself on deep roleplaying scenarios, but i think the loss of the Star Wars RPG is quite sad. The sourcebooks, when handled well, added some interesting depth and flavour to the SW Galaxy. Check out the free Galactic Gazetteer download from www.wizards.com to see what i mean.

I hope Episode III prompts a revival in the RPG's fortunes, as Episode II did spark a revamp itself.

[Galahad_Skywalker]

So, if I were planning on getting into Star Wars roleplaying, would I just be better off hunting down an old West End d6 sourcebook? I've been wanting to run a Star Wars RPG for awhile, but haven't been sure which license was better.

[Sabrina Fried]

Galahad,

That's really a matter of opinion. I prefer the d6 system, but others out there can't stand it and swear by the d20 system. the D6 books are significantly cheaper (the Revised Core Rulebook cost me about CDN $35, compared to about CDN $60 for the latest d20 corebook), but because they are out of print, they are also much harder to find. The d20 books, since they are more recent, will be easier to find, but they are prohibitively expensive, and if you don't already have polyhedral dice you will need those too. With the d6 system you could just raid the board games you had lying around the house for pieces.

Sabrina

[Galahad_Skywalker]

Thanks a lot, Sabrina! I'll probably just go ahead and track down the West End Rulebook, but you never know! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Ithorian guy]

d6 is way better than d20, and less confusing.

[Kaken Osmex]

I took some of the old West End game books and ran an adventure using the D20 rules, it worked out pretty good if you ask me style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif .

I never picked up the second edition core rules book because it seemed like they would be releasing another revised edition after Episode III. I guess from the sounds of this thread I better head back to Half Price Books and pick up the second edition.

[Galahad_Skywalker]

I'm going with the West End version, though I'm going to do my best to blend elements of both together once I learn the rules. I'm looking forward to getting my d6 core rulebook in the mail, hopefully this coming week.

[darth scourge]

Your best bet would be to try both and then decide which you like.There are pdf documents you can download on both and read on your computer and whichever you like best then thats what you go out and buy.Id still choose D20 theres much more options in it.

[Galahad_Skywalker]

I considered the d20, but I played a Wheel of Time game with some friends, and found that particular d20 system to be way too numbers-oriented for my tastes, and I figured that the SW d20 would be similar in its dynamics. That, and hearing many say that the d6 was extremely cinematic was enough to sway me in the direction of the older version, though there is someone else on campus who runs the SW d20, and maybe the two of us can get involved in each other's games, seeing as we're both hopelessly Star Wars obsessed.

[BenRieekan]

I never had the pleasure of seeing the d6 system, but i'll stand up for the d20 game and say it's a pretty good game and it does have the right 'feel'. The problem, as with all d20 games, is to make sure you know where you want the rules to dictate outcomes and where you want roleplaying to do the same.

The d20 system tends to impose itself very strongly in character interaction, which can be a pain.

Plus, whilst we're on the negatives, the Force powers don't always give you the abilities to do the things you see in the movies (Force assisted jumping anyone?). There's about 3 ways to achieve the 'force jump', none of which in rules terms are official or ideal. For me the game has to reflect the films first and foremost and only once it's truly captured that should it worry about how to incorporate EU powers.

Anyways, overall i'm quite positive about d20 Star Wars and the contributions it makes to the EU and the ways in which it can provide background details which enrich the Saga.

When i get time (in about 3 months or so) i'll be finishing my write up of all those essential NPCs (like Stormtroopers and Imperial Officers of all different ranks, etc) which i use in my games. I may post them here if anyone's interested.

[darth scourge]

Yeah if you can,to save me hours of writing could you write up NPC's of Imperial officers.One for each rank
Lieutenant
Commander
Captain
Major
Colonel
General
Admiral
Grand Admiral

[BenRieekan]

^ I hope you're not expecting anything in the near future! My wish list is complete and one or two basic attempts have been made at statting out someof these d20 NPCs, but i've had several rethinks and will be making revisions even before i've gotten started properly! This work is all slated for completion over the summer, once my degree is done. I've got fundamental principles in place (using Curtis Saxton's SWTC) to determine how my Imperial and Rebel Militaries are organised, and i've determined what i want to actually stat up from each side, based on relevance to the hierarchy and likeliness of my Players encountering them. I've also picked out some important generic archetypes i wanted to work with which belong to neither faction (based first and foremost on what can be seen of 'normal' life in the films), and in general i only used the EU in particular areas i felt were promising - eg Storm Commandos, who have great potential in the RPG and can tie in nicely to Prequel era ARC Troopers (which just rock!).

The Imperial Officers i'm planning on using (and their overall level)...

NCO (2), Lt/Captain (4), Commander/Lt Colonel (8), Captain (10), Commodore (12), Admiral (14), Moff (16)

(Just for reference, though i may not give them my own full write up... Grand Moff [17], Grand Admiral [18], Vader [19], Emperor [20])

The first three Officers are generic in their skills, for use in both the army and the navy (my gaming emphasises navy, so i won't be going higher with the army ranks), but i also picked out Major General (13) as being important to create for the army... after all they're apparently the head of each Imperial garrisson and Star Destroyer troop compliment. The remaining higher level Officers (excluding the Moff) were all created with the Navy in mind (and thus take the Naval Officer prestige class).

One of my basic philosophies is that each higher level character should build on a lower level template. There'll be various branches off from this chart for more specific organisations with prestige classes i want to use, and the like - eg ISB, which branches off after level 4. Should i ever want to fill in the army hierarchy, i'll work backwards from my Major-General, who doesn't advance using the same classes as the other higher level Officers, to the level 8 Lt Colonel.

I've also got my Stormtroopers/Clones worked out in a similar way, starting with a very basic level 2 thug template (representing either a semi-mature clone or recruit in training) which then advances to thug 3 for the basic grunt or multiclasses to become one of the various specialisms (eg TIE Pilot, Scout, Gunner, AT-AT crew etc). All stormtroopers and their specialist varities will build off this first template, with the aim being that most can appear to either get promoted within their own specialty (to higher ranked officers i'll be creating), or train into the ranks of the elite Commandos and Royal Guard - who'll appear to have begun life as a basic trooper (and or Scout in the case of the Commando).

Phew, right. Anyways all that hard work i've described will be going into all elements of Star Wars life, droids, basic commoners, etc as well as the big Rebel, Imperial and Criminal factions. In other words, i could be going for a lifetime, as i'm too fussy to just accept WOTC's stats and get on with it.

Ben

[darth scourge]

yeah the thing i dont get is the professional classes.Stormtroopers I would re-stat as 2nd level soldiers instead of 4th level thugs.Yeah its a good idea to stat them out at recruit level and all.I think some of the stats from WOTC are un-lifelike like in the Rebellion era sourcebook it has officers in the empire that dont have the officer prestige class.Have you checked out the instant dark side villain generator.

[BenRieekan]

^ Yeah, i've checked that out. In general i'm very dubious about WOTC and the way they've portrayed NPCs in rules terms (and i'm even dubious about some of the Force rules system too) - first and foremost they should be trying to reflect what you can see in the film and translate that into the RPG. The abilities and equipment, not to mention the actual range of characters they've statted out, don't represent correctly what we've seen in the films. My intent will be to correct that deficit and then integrate in as much of the EU as i find appealing and my players enjoy.

I just don't think they did a good enough job. But hey, i'm both a serious Star Wars fan of many years and an obsessively methodical planner when it comes to GMing roleplaying games. I'm going to be fairly difficult to please!

I must admit, i did like the way they posted RPG stats online for their miniature range. They still weren't what i'd consider 'correct' stats, but they've been duly noted and i'll be using them as some inspiration for the work to come.

Ben

[darth scourge]

Cool.I used to GM all the time but most have my players have moved away.Do you know any good online rpg sites that use the online die roller and characters sheets.I fancy playing a character for once.
As for the game i think they should have re thought the vitality and wound points.Say your character manages to stun an opponent and hes out for 4 rounds.Your character walks up and blasts him point blank in the head.You roll and do only 3 points of damage.Huh that is very un realistic.The inquisitor rpg uses the % die to determine where a character is hit.I think they should redo the rulebook.I dont agree with some of the restrictions aswell with the Ewoks being only allowed from the Rebellion era +.I usually make house rules and allow them in all eras.

[BenRieekan]

The vitality/wound system is preferable to the more basic D&D system of just hitpoints... at least in this system you have a chance of killing someone outright with a Blaster shot... in the hitpoint system high level characters can take several 'fatal' wounds without dying. Vitality represents that cinematic quality we see in Star Wars - the way the Stormtroopers always just about miss our heroes for example.

I really like how that system works, and if you don't like the way it works in your example above, with a prone, stunned character, just remember that what you're effectively doing is a coup-de-grace as you're talking about a completely helpless unconcious character. IIRC you don't roll to hit, but you do roll damage and then perhaps multiply it by something. Not sure, as i tend to fudge a lot of the rules anyway in these circumstances.

As for online resources... I have no clue, to be honest. Have you tried www.swrpgnetwork.com?

[darth scourge]

yeah i tried that but had no response.

[Reel 2/Dialogue 2]

I'm one of the die-hard d6 lovers, but since I'm a collector firstly, the d20 books I've garnered have provided merit to the feel of the Saga. My only real beef would be towards the Rebellion Era Sourcebook, which to me is just a revamp of Essential Guide to Characters with stats, nowhere near as comprehensive as the d6 Rebel Alliance or Imperial Sourcebooks. But overall, it would be sad to see the d20 line end, since Wizards has taken its time compared to West End, and is still coming up short. The Wizards forum indicates that, by year's end, a 3rd edition is likely to envelop the whole Saga, and hopefully that'll jumpstart the franchise.

The SWPRGNetwork is the best place on the net, because it's thorough and caters to both systems, but it updates very slowly. A couple of posters there have been welcomed into Wizards's ranks and contributed to official material, so it's nice to get to talk to them, but I wish there was a full fledged staff to handle its operations. The RPG community wouldn't have to depend on Wizars so much in that case.

If you need an illustration done, SWAGonline.net is ideal for requests, but I've yet to see them do maps, counters, or practically anything outside character/starship portraits.

EDIT: Just found out that SWAG is undergoing an indefinite hiatus. Hope things turn out well.

[darth scourge]

I have joined a site that incorporates Wizards of the coast D20 Star wars and the West end games version games.It uses message boards and online Die rollers for the games.Also proper character creation is included.Im running a game on there titled
'Golden age of the Sith:Sith purge' which is set during the time of the sith wars where a Jedi task force is hunting down members of the sith empire.Im looking for new players to join.

Here is a link to the site
http://www.roleplayinggames.net/cgi-bin/starwars.cgi

I go under GM-Andy or Jedi Andai Jai-Ra

[jedi hunter]

I had the two main things i needed to play which was the core rule book and the character sheets but as soon as i got them the nearest place the played it shut down....style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[darth scourge]

Join Starwarsrpg.net it is still running and it is crying out for new members

[Admiral Highliner]

Hello everyone!

If you play the pan and paper version of Star Wars RPG and haven't heard the news - here it is!

There's a new d20 version of SWRPG being next March. Its a revised edition of the revised edition (so to speak). Its supposed to be better, but we'll see. I've always been of the mind that a good game depends on the person running it, not so much on the mechanics.

But to get more info on the new edition, go to: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/gencon06

just scroll down to near the bottom of the page.

Cheers! :cheers: (All for me grog... me jolly jolly grog!)

AH

[Miasmo]

Glad to hear it's still breathing.

[THX-1138]

As long as GMs have copies of the rule books and choose to use them, roleplaying games will never truly die. Only the test of time will decide if D6 or D20 will endure. I will cast my lots with D6 and continue to develop resources for it.