To change or not to change.... that is the question

[smudger9]

I know many of us are anticipating a super duper million disc final DVD release after ROTS with loads of new bonus materials. Does anyone have an opinion on whether anything should be changed in the OT to more closely tie the OT to the PT or should t be left alone.

[empire21]

doesn't really matter to me, whatever's done, negative or positive i'll probably end up buying them anyway. I just hope sometime soon we have the option to get the OT as it was on DVD. Heres to hoping style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer.gif

[hunkyspunky]

Think there's going to be a high definition release of the OT and Episode 1 in 2006 or 2007. Puppet Yoda in TPM is probably going to be replaced by the CGI Yoda because that's Lucas for you...always changing and fiddling with stuff.

[Sabrina Fried]

Wouldn't surprise me.

Aside from film cleaning and restoration I've always though the films should be left alone, but I can tolerate about 90% of the changes that were made over the years if I really have to.

At this point though, I think LFL should either stop tinkering with the OT or else completely redo the trilogy, ie do a remake. The changes they are making, even just the insertion of CGI droids into a scene filmed 30 years ago, are getting to the point where they are distracting people from the real story.

Sabrina

[GeneralDirection]

The digital Yoda in TPM idea has been floating around for a while, and I'd actually be surprised if that didn't happen at some point. It's a shame, because the performance of that Yoda is fine, it just doesn't look right. As for the OT, nothing major - we might see all the lightsaber effects cleaned up to PT-quality, and some of the matt-boxes taken out (I think these were the main complaints about the last release), but I think that'll be it.

[goodwije]

i agree.. nothing major just clean up stuff. which is cool wit' me

[Talcy]

Either do Jabba properly or remove the scene entirely. The scene is not needed;the original worked fine without it as that whole scenario was set up with Greedo.

[Master Magnus]

I do hope they change that terrible Yoda puppet in TPM. It doesn't "feel" like Yoda.

Oops, sorry, this is the Original Trilogy forum. Well, the lightsaber mishaps needs to be fixed, as well as the remaining matte-lines and other matte left-overs.

[Kapit]

any changes won't really bother me unless it compltely and utterly changes the movies, i've always been a supporter of GL doing what he wants to his movies

CG yoda in TPM!

[empire21]

if we can't get the OT as we truly remeber it, then at least get rid of the greedo shoots first.

[Sam Kenobi]

We need a completely fixed up trilogy, and a completely original one.

[Mothman]

Knowing GL, I think that a CGI Yoda is definitely on the way. Spielberg added CGI to many shots of E.T. in the anniversary release a few years ago, so CGI Yoda can't be far behind. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

[Emperor Palpatine]

If there is another edition, my bet is that it will be the last one. Just minor tweaks and such things, nothing major.

[Sabrina Fried]

Originally posted by Mothman@Feb 25 2005, 03:17 PM
Knowing GL, I think that a CGI Yoda is definitely on the way. Spielberg added CGI to many shots of E.T. in the anniversary release a few years ago, so CGI Yoda can't be far behind. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif
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As long as he doesnt digitally replace the blasters with walkie talkies! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Sabrina

[Senator_Ryno_Of_Bespin]

I think everyone here is missing the most important detail here. If master lucas believes that he can make the trilogy better by replacing human actors with cgi actors, and real sets with computer generated sets, he's going to do it. The main reason he would want to do this would be to capture his entire vision for the saga. Durring filming, each film ran lucas furthur into debt, forcing him to cut out parts he wanted, or scale down things. With computers he can go back adding in everything he wanted to put in but didnt have the money to finance, and show everyone his complete vision. I would also like to see several of the deleted scenes added back in, preferably all of them.

[GeneralDirection]

Yeah - whenever I've seen him talking about that in interviews, he always talks about how frustrated he was with ANH in particular - he once said it was only about 25% of what he wanted it to be. On the commentary he talks for almost the whole of the credits about how he was held back by the technology. What he did with the SE was to flesh out some of the scenes that were already in the movie - like Mos Eisley and the Death Star battle - with new effects, but if he'd had those effects back in 1977, the story might have been different. ANH is very limited about what we see and where we go - a few empty deserts, a few grey corridors, a few rooms in a jungle base. He said he'd have liked to have gone to Coruscant to see the Emperor in the movie, so maybe that's a possibility in the future - an early scene actually showing Palpatine dissolving the Senate, before Tarkin talks about it later in the movie. It probably won't happen, but it's a possibility.

[Kapit]

i like those ideas, i would to see all these scenes lucas didn't get to do put back in the movies, or even new scenes added to show what GL really wanted us all to see in the OT

[Master Shrive]

^Yeah, I agree. If it's something GL really wanted in, I think he should go for it. I've never seen the films in their original state, only the Special Editions - so changes from the originals wouldn't really worry me.

However, I do see peoples point when they ask for the originals - some people have grown up with those movies...

Obviously, I'd also like to see some touch up done - to make the OT look more like the PT in quality.

As for the DVD set after ROTS been the last - I'm not so sure. It should be, but I wouldn't be surprised if aniversary editions were released etc.

[Sam Kenobi]

Well, I think they should have fixed the OT when it came out on DVD. It was rushed. And I son't mean added scenes, or anything. I mean cgi and other stuff that looks bad, that needed to be fixed.

[stylo]

My opinion on a near-30-year-old classic: Better to just be left as it is.

[Master_Mams]

Originally posted by Talcy@Feb 24 2005, 05:11 PM
Either do Jabba properly or remove the scene entirely. The scene is not needed;the original worked fine without it as that whole scenario was set up with Greedo.
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Lucas does not share your point of view on this matter if you listen to the commentary of the last EP IV dvd release. It's the introduction of Jabba the hutt into the story, and at that time Lucas wasn't even sure if he would be making episodes V & VI, that is mainly why he dropped it in the editing room.

About the changes, beyond changing old fx with new ones and including deleted scenes and the senate dissolution scene, he could also re-edit some of the PT in my opinion. There is a lot of the duel of the fates footage from episode 1 that didn't make it into the final cut for exemple. Same goes for the obiwan vs dooku in AOTC where he willingly didn't throw too much of Dooku's digital double, even Ewan Mcgregor was unhappy with the final result as he claimed in some interviews. There is also the deleted scenes with the lars familly, part of them were shot, but almost nothing made it into the final release. Same goes for the droid control ship assault in episode II.
I believe that in 2007 we shall get a new edition of the saga, but I won't bet that it should be the last.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by GeneralDirection@Feb 26 2005, 05:52 PM
.....whenever I've seen him talking about that in interviews, he always talks about how frustrated he was with ANH in particular - he once said it was only about 25% of what he wanted it to be. On the commentary he talks for almost the whole of the credits about how he was held back by the technology.....

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These are just the ramblings of an old man, IMO.

[GeneralDirection]

Actually, I've seen quotes from him from back in 1977/78 about how unhappy and unsatisfied he was with ANH back then.

[Master Shrive]

^I'm not surprised. Technology and money can really limit a man's imagination.

[Underoath]

Right now, it is his money and his time, and Star Wars fans are so loyal, including myself, that we will take whatever GL gives us. The only things i desperately want to see different are the explosions in ANH, such as on the Tantive IV, the TIE fighters pursuing the Falcon, and most importantly, the Death Star trench runs made by the X-wings. That may have been "cutting edge" 30 years ago, but now it just isn't gonna work with the whole saga, especially given the fact that ROTS is going to have (in my opinion) some of the best CGI we have ever seen.

[walong]

Originally posted by hunkyspunky@Feb 24 2005, 08:00 AM
that's Lucas for you...always changing and fiddling with stuff.<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
The sarcastic part of me wants to say, "that's because he can't come up with any new ideas." To me, the fact that people are always pointing out the difference in image quality and FX between the original and the current sets of films only underscores the amount of time that has gone by since he did any original, inspired work. In the film industry, 25+ years is a long time to sit on one's accomplishments, but it's onl y because of the devotion of the SW fans that Lucas has been able to get away with that.

[walong]

Originally posted by Master Shrive@Feb 28 2005, 11:43 PM
Technology and money can really limit a man's imagination.<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
Yes, but is that necessarily a bad thing?

Maybe this is a bad example to use in a SW forum, but I can remember numerous discussions regarding the original 1966 Star Treks where the writers were always running into obstacles because of money, technology, and time. In a lot of cases that turned out to be a good thing, because it forced the writers to be more resourceful and creative than they otherwise would have been.

[JMAS]

I would like to see some of the deleted/extended scenes from the PT make it onto a DVD, actually as part of the movie, not just scene snippets to watch afterward.

Also, I wish he's fix some of the "improved" effects to the OT on DVD. Digitally remastered?

ANH: Lukes lightsaber while practicing on the Falcon goes from green to white to blue to white to blue! Then those green flashes during Ben and Vader's duel ... what the heck was that?
TESB: Vader's saber looks almost pink rather than red half the time. And while on Dagobah, after Artoo get's spit up, Luke's original line there was "You're lucky you don't taste very good." which I thought was great, had a little bit of wit to it. But on the DVD it's "You were lucky to get out of there."
ROTJ: When Han is about to shoot the Sarlaac to save Lando, his original line was "It's alright. Trust me." That was great. Cause it makes Lando wonder, would he shoot me for betraying him on Cloud city, maybe just graze my leg? But ever since the "Special Edition" it was changed to "Don't worry, I can see a lot better now." Lame, boring, no pizazz. Then the ending scene, I really could have done without hearing a gungan (who is obviously supposed to be Jar Jar) yelling "weesa free!" And then seeing the Jedi Temple still standing on Coruscant? Somehow, I think Palpatine would have taken anything useful from the archives that he wanted and razed the temple. Not left it standing.

[Underoath]

I concur. Luke's saber on the falcon bugs me more than anything. But I think that the Naboo scene does good with continuity beteween the PT and OT.

[walong]

Originally posted by JMAS@Mar 4 2005, 05:04 PM
Also, I wish he's fix some of the "improved" effects to the OT on DVD. Digitally remastered?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

Sometime tho a big part of the appeal of a classic is that it isn't as flashy or sophisticated as a more modernized offering.

[yoda19873]

I think in 2007, well I HOPE in 2007, that GL will release the entire Saga on a ULTIMATE SPECIAL EDITION DVD RELEASE. How cool? There are a few things he could/should add to bring the two trilogies together and to make it look and better top notch. Here is what i have in mind:

All six films should have ALL of the deleted incorporated into the films. ALL DELETED SCENES. NO MATTER HOW cocky-doody THEY THERE OR HOW LONG THEY ARE. That alone would play on the running time quite a lot.

The spines of the individual bxes would create a pic, so would the box it owuld be packed itno. Tthe boxes themselves would all be set out the same.

The pic and sound quality would be top-notch.

The credits (They were left in the dve relase for a strange reason) would be re-done. The opening crawl for each film (Picture and sound wise) would be the same.

Here are the individual changes for the film's:

TPM: Yoda would be redone digitally
When Darth Maul is slain, the blood should be taken away.
That's all I can think off but i shall let u know if i think of nything else.

ROTS: I've heard that "Who ordered the Clone's" subject is not going to be touched upon at all in the film. Which to me is WHY? I would have liked a scene with that in. Just so it is touched upon and not forgotten. Becuase that question was what AOTC was all about really.
That's all I can think off but i shall let u know if i think of nything else.

ANH:When Obi-Wan cuts the aliens arm off in the cantina the blood should dissappear.
Just before the end celebration with the medals we should see Vader going into the imperial palace and talking with the emperror (Like Dooku in AOTC)
When Alderaan is about to be blown up we should see Bail Organa on Alderaan looking shocked and when it does blow up we should see Yoda looking worried like Obi-wan.
When we meet Luke they should Add Shmi's gravestone there along with Cliegg's.
When we see Luke training with his sabre on the falcon it should be the right colour.
We could see Palpatine dissolving the imperial senate.
That's all I can think off but i shall let u know if i think of nything else.

ESB: Vader and the emperror should have a scene discussing the prequel trilogy (they should discuss Padme,Yoda, Obi-wan and the extinction of the Jedi). Maybe it would be an extension to the hologram scene.
There should be a scene with the empire landing on hoth for the attack (unloading the AT-Ats' etc). There couls also be a sene where they are planning the attack.
The battle scene in ESB should be extended with more troops and at-at's etc.
Vaders lightsabre should be turned back to red instead of PINK.
That's all I can think off but i shall let u know if i think of nything else.

ROTJ: Kashyyk should be added to the end celebration.
I have seen a pic from ROTS showing the Jedi temple with a new tower beside it. It's supposed to be the Emperrors tower. I'm not sure if thats fake or real. If it is real it should aslo be added to the end celebration.
When the ewoks first take our heroes to their camp, C-3po is sitting in his chair and his righ tleg is silver. EH???? that would be changed.
That's all I can think off but i shall let u know if i think of nything else.

If Kamino is still makeing the clones for the empire then it owuld be cool to see someone talking with an Kaminoian in hologram discussing the troopers or something.

If it is not explain about the stormtroopers in ROTS All of the stormtroopers lines throughout the films should be re-done with Tremmura Morrison (Dont think ive spelled that right)

PLus just little things like Matte boxes, the lightsabre fights (colour, fixing them to the PT, jumpcut and things like that)and stuff like that should be taken care off.

I can prob think of other things but not right now. Does anybody have any more?

That would be my dream come true for me. IF THERE WAS NYTHING IN THE WORLD I WOULD WANT IT WOULD BE THAT!!!I LOVE STAR WARS!!! JUST TO HAVE THE GREATEST SET OF FILMS EVER FINALLY COMPLETE WOULD BE A FEELING NOBODY WOULD EVER BE ABLE TO DESCRIBE!!!

[operative lm]

You're that guy from mf.com aren't you? I ask 'cause someone said the exact same thing in a OT change thread over there.

Here's my wishlist for an ultimate DVD set:

EP I:

CGI Yoda
Addition of the Waterfall and Probe Droid deleted scenes into main movie
Random touch ups (When I say random touch ups, I mean getting the CGI to look as good as the ROTS CGI)

EP II:

Addition of the Raid on Control Ship deleted/unfinished scene
Make Ki-Adi-Mundi's lightsaber one color instead of jumping back and forth between green and blue
Random touch ups

EP IV:

PT-quality sabers
Make Luke's Falcon saber blue
Add a scene of Palpatine dissolving Senate, literally (Preferably with some new Dark Side Power)
Cantina arm without blood
Possibly redo some of the fighters movements so they don't look so static
PT-quality blaster bolts
Random touch ups

EP V:

PT-quality sabers (this includes fixing Vader's pink saber)
PT-quality blaster bolts
Possibly extend the Battle of Hoth scene
Random touch ups

EP VI:

PT-quality sabers
PT-quality blaster bolts
Some CGI ewoks (show more killed off, allow for greater range of expressions)
Tone down the bunker explosion
Fix the popping-out-of-nowhere TIE fighters
Add Kashyyyk to the celebration sequence
PT-quality lightning for Palpy
Random touch ups


The "Who ordered the Clones" subject was taken care of in Labyrinth of Evil. It doesn't need to be explained in ROTS.

By the way, hello everybody. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bye.gif

[RollaFett]

I really don't think that GL would mess with Yoda from the OT. I've always heard speak of Frank Oz and what he did with the puppet with such high regard, so much so that I would think that he would consider it an insult to his fried, Oz, to alter it.

As far as what I would like to see. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Alderan in ANH. Just a shrt scene or two where the people on the surface realize that the Death Star has just arrived and what is about to happen to them.

[Otis_Frampton]

I've come to the point where I wish Lucas would just put together a little ILM team whose sole job is to re-do the OT effects to match the PT.

I actually prefer the PT, and when I look at the OT now, I can't help but see dated work. The PT is so beautiful . . I say just keep going George.

Blasphemy, I know. But I don't give a ****.

-Otis

[Darth Fool]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Alderan in ANH. Just a shrt scene or two where the people on the surface realize that the Death Star has just arrived and what is about to happen to them.[/b][/quote]
This scene is actually included in the Manga adaption (volume 2) and works really well, as do the other additions.

[spirram]

i'm sure gl is going to make changes. i just hope he doesn't add to much cg characters because it takes away from the actors. i mean why have live actors if you're going to do everything cg?

[James]

Originally posted by operative lm@Mar 14 2005, 02:22 PM
The "Who ordered the Clones" subject was taken care of in Labyrinth of Evil. It doesn't need to be explained in ROTS.

<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Could you please tell me who did?? I haven't got to this book yet style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/artoo.gif

[Otis_Frampton]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The "Who ordered the Clones" subject was taken care of in Labyrinth of Evil. It doesn't need to be explained in ROTS.[/b][/quote]

It was also answered in AOTC (if you pay attention and add up the clues).

-Otis

[operative lm]

Originally posted by James+Mar 16 2005, 02:38 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(James @ Mar 16 2005, 02:38 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-operative lm@Mar 14 2005, 02:22 PM
The "Who ordered the Clones" subject was taken care of in Labyrinth of Evil. It doesn't need to be explained in ROTS.

<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Could you please tell me who did?? I haven't got to this book yet style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/artoo.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

Master Syfo-Dias.

I don't know if this would spoil it or not, so don't read any further if you don't want to be spoiled (lol):


Obi-Wan asks Yoda if Syfo-Dias really did order the clones, and Yoda replies with an answer that lasts about 2-4 pages. So in a nutshell: Syfo-Dias ordered the clones on a hunch that he had about the galaxy changing. After he orders them, Dooku kills him (I can't remember how, I'd have to read the book again). Yay.

[Kam Solusar]

You know, I don't care what Lucas changes. He can change all he wants.

However, I wish he wouldn't pull the originals off the market period. He'd probably make just as much money, if not more, if he left the originals out there and made these changed versions what he advertises them as, SE's. Honestly, how can you call something a special edition when you remove the other editions from the market...it makes it special all right, it's the only edition.

[wonkawill]

Totally agree Kam. I personally want the originals, if only to compare them to the Special Editions. The last time I saw the originals I was like 9 or 10 years old. At the same time, I completely understand Lucas' right as an artist to tweek his work because, after all, it is his work. Just make the real original version available to all. Also, I personally wish he would have made a definitive Special Edition with ALL the necessary changes. Yeah most of us will keep on buying whatever he puts out, but it does rather cheapen the work by constantly chipping at it. It's like taking off a bandage; I wish he would just rip it off, making the changes all in one fell swoop and then leaving it alone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>(Master Shrive @ Feb 28 2005, 11:43 PM)
Technology and money can really limit a man's imagination.[/b][/quote]


Yes, but is that necessarily a bad thing?

Maybe this is a bad example to use in a SW forum, but I can remember numerous discussions regarding the original 1966 Star Treks where the writers were always running into obstacles because of money, technology, and time. In a lot of cases that turned out to be a good thing, because it forced the writers to be more resourceful and creative than they otherwise would have been.[/b][/quote]

I think it's more important for a writer to make the very best of what you have (actors and technology), combine it all, and apply it to a good story. We must marry the new cinema techniques with excellent writing, and actors who can work in the ol' school and in the cutting edge realm.

[Sarah-Leia]

I know many of us are anticipating a super duper million disc final DVD release after ROTS with loads of new bonus materials. Does anyone have an opinion on whether anything should be changed in the OT to more closely tie the OT to the PT or should t be left alone.

I think it should be left alone. If anything were changed, in my opinion, it should be the PT. After all, the OT was made first and the PT should have tied in with it perfectly.

[MandalorianJF]

Well...the lightsabers in ANH need a little more work but everything else is goooooooooooooooooood.

[THX-1138]

I like the classics in thier original form but if I had to fix something, I think R5-D4 needs to be digitally removed from the jawa sandcrawler droid sale where you see him in a quick cut scene back in line next to R2-D2 after he rolled forward and blew his motivator. :bye:

[Sarah-Leia]

When the ewoks first take our heroes to their camp, C-3po is sitting in his chair and his righ tleg is silver. EH???? that would be changed.
It's supposed to be like that. 3-PO's coverings were mostly scrounged from other old droids, and they couldn't find a complete gold set. His right leg has always been silver-ish.
As I said before, I really don't think that we should keep changing the OT. Fixing up the special effects, definitely, but changing it deliberately to make it tie in with a trilogy that should have matched it perfectly anyway, is stupid. It would have been just as easy to make Obi-Wan be the Jedi to find and start training Anakin, and maybe cut out Qui-Gon (sorry Qui!). I can't think of any more for now, but that line ("When I met your father, I was amazed at how strongly the Force was with him") always stands out whenever I watch Return of the Jedi.

[THX-1138]

Agreed 100% Sarah. The prequels need to fit the originals not the other way around. By definition a prequel is supposed to provide the backstory to the original story anything else is revisionism.

[electric]

THX-1138

I understand what you are saying, but IMO I don't think it's fit to call the PT "prequels" even if we call it "Prequel Trilogy." The reason I'm saying this is the PT movies simply complete a series that had only been half filmed (hence the reason why they dubbed ESB "episode V" instead of "episode II" back in 1980). I would rather see the PT and the OT as simply different parts of the same project that was not created in chronological order. In this sense, I would hesitate to call the PT a "backstory." What I mean is, I don't think either the OT or the PT should be used as an empirical object to compare the other for inconsistencies.

Sarah-Leia

I don't think the Obi-Wan line you're referring to is truly a contradiction with the PT, even if it is Qui-Gon who discovered Anakin. Obi-Wan says that when he met Anakin he was impressed by his force sensitivity, which I don't think contradicts anything in the PT. After Qui-Gon introduced Anakin to him, he technically had "met" him, and I'm certain it didn't take long for Obi-Wan to realize Anakin's potential and be "amazed" with it.

Actually, if I can think of something Obi-Wan says that could put Qui-Gon's character in doubt, is in ESB when he refers to Yoda as the "Jedi Master who instructed me" and also in ROTJ he says something like that as well referring to his own impatience at the time he was under Yoda's guidance. Thinking about it, I believe we can support a conclusion to the effect that this may not have been a contradiction either since there is some EU material saying that Obi-Wan wasn't Qui-Gon's apprentice until he was a teenager, and actually trained under Yoda in his childhood.

Peace :)

[Sluggo]

If he gives us a decent anamorphic set of the unaltered original, he can make whatever changes he wants to the Special Editions.

[silverbolt]

Id like to see more Space battles in a redone version more X-wing/TIE action, maybe some shots of the capital ships pounding at each other to actually see the fire power of ships like home one

the nicest touch i think lucas did was to put hayden christenson in at the end of ROTJ,

also get rid of greedo shooting first, he fires hits a wall (when his target is a foot away) inches from Hans head and the man doesnt even flinch it was a pointless add on