SPORTS: Rugby

[cj790]

Any other fans of rugger?

Discuss the games here style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer.gif

[cj790]

Are there any predictions for the 6 Nations this year?

I'd say England will probably win the tournament, looking at the state of France; although Wales or Ireland could produce an upset.

[cj790]

Well, if anyone else is intested, I thought Scotland were totally robbed today. France were not impressive at all, and Scotland seemed to play a good solid game. I didn't think Ally Hogg stepped into touch at all; and it was a shame that Scotland gave away such a try right at the end of the match. Unfair.

[cj790]

<span style="color:red">11</span> - 9!!!
<span style="color:red">Wales</span> - England!!!

And no more than they deserve

[JediBendu]

Scotland is definitely one to watch this year - they dominated the french the entire game
it was heart wrenching to see them go down like that style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[cj790]

I think that Scotland v Ireland will be a good game; if Scotland play well it could go either way.

Any predictions for England v France next week?

I expect Ireland to comfortably beat Italy today, and Wales to beat them next week too.

[JediBendu]

methinks I'll hold off predicting scotland v ireland until I see ireland play, but I think I'll be supporting the scotts this year...and anyone playing against england of course style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/evil.gif

France only showed glimpses of their ability, if they play like that again the England will walk all over em.

Why was Michalak off for so long?!?!

[cj790]

Not impressed with Ireland today - I still think the Ire v Scot game will be a good one to watch next week. Can't say I was impressed with Ireand during the autumn internationals as well, come to think of it.

Agreed about France - sometimes they do that though; I'm not sure whether they think they'll win a game just by turning up or something - but you always know that there's another gear in there somewhere. There's no chance they'll perform like that against England.

[JediBendu]

Ireland played below par, but they were lucky the Italians couldn't do much better! Their forwards played brilliantly, but the backs f*cked it up with too many errors.

Ireland's injuries won't help either -

Scotland over Ireland (2)
France over England (8)
Wales over Italy (14)

[Talcy]

Blimey. By that reckoning, we'd have both Scotland and Wales in line for the Triple Crown. Not sure we'll beat Ireland, though.

[cj790]

^ Stranger things have happened...

I amy be lynched at home for this, but I think Ireland will get the best of Scotland this year.
France over England.
And def. Wales over Italy.

[JediBendu]

what can I say - I have a penchant for the underdog style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I amy be lynched at home for this, but I think Ireland will get the best of Scotland this year.[/b][/quote]

I wouldn't worry - maz probably won't come down here for a while style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif I think Ireland have been rattled with Scotland legitimately claiming a win over the French - the Scotts will go into the match with the clear pysch advantage

[Talcy]

But I think that Ireland are the better team right now, by a considerable margin. I think we'll get beat.

[cj790]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Feb 9 2005, 09:40 AM
I wouldn't worry - maz probably won't come down here for a while style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Spot on mate style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

I've just discovered a proble though - I'm off to Norwich next weekend and I'll miss all the matches! Waaah!

[JediBendu]

Just as your around to watch the French beat England, I think you could probably miss the rest of the series and still be happy =P

[cj790]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
True that style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer.gif

I think that the Scots now have the best chance of beating Ireland as possible, with both Brian O'Driscoll and Gordon D'Arcy off...


And I say: 21-17 to France

[JediBendu]

Is it even possible for the italians to hold on to the ball?!?!
Granted Wales just walked all over em, but the score line would look a lot different if some of their plays didn't result in the ball popping out or being dropped style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

My condolences must go out to the Scotts style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rose.gif - the first half was theirs completely, but they didn't come out firing for the second - Ireland was just too good.

[cj790]

I can't say I'm dissapointed with the Italians style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
Still, they have really tried hard since entering into the 6 Nations, and I think they really deserve the title 'most improved team in the world'.
Every team have a poo day once in a while - Wales know that well enough!

Shame about Scotland. Seems Ireland are still favourites for the Championship this year, even despite their poor performance last week.

[JediBendu]

wales v ireland will probably be the best game in the series!

...anyway

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">GO <span style="color:BLUE">FR</span><span style="color:WHITE">AN</span><span style="color:RED">CE</span> !!!!</span>

[JediBendu]

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">GO <span style="color:BLUE">VIVA</span><span style="color:WHITE">LA</span><span style="color:RED">FRANCE</span> !!!!</span>

[Rojo]

Sacre bleu!

[cj790]

^ Lol style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Mon dieu!
Un pointe!!!

Tense stuff.
I'd def. go for Ireland winning the championship now. I can't see them losing to either England or France.
If Wales were playing in Cardiff I'd say they could beat France too, but being in Paris, I'm not too sure...

Wales v. Ireland in Cardiff - I reckon we could upset them *crosses fingers*

[JediBendu]

^ that'll be the game of the series methinks

[cj790]

I reckon:

France beat Wales by 0-10 points (boo!)

Ireland beat England by 5-15 points

Scotland beat Italy by 5-15 points also (but if it were played in Rome I might go for the Italians...)


style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer.gif

[Das]

Australia beats everyone.

When are they going to have Northern Hemisphere vs. Southern Hemisphere?

I guess it would be hard trying to make the Aussies and Kiwis play with the cheating/scratching/biting/eye-gouging South Africans.

[cj790]

Originally posted by Das@Feb 25 2005, 05:30 AM
When are they going to have Northern Hemisphere vs. Southern Hemisphere?

I guess it would be hard trying to make the Aussies and Kiwis play with the cheating/scratching/biting/eye-gouging South Africans.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Do you mean as two teams, in one match?

[Das]

Yeah.

[cj790]

It would be something to see...

[Rojo]

England are up for a beating this weekend I feel. At least we should beat the Scots and the Italians. I hope.

[Rojo]

Good wins for the Scots and the Welsh (sigh) today. The French have obviously been too erratic this year and they've finally got their reward for it. I guess I have to steel myself for another England defeat tomorrow, as Ireland are my tip for the Grand Slam.

[JediBendu]

It was definitely not a good win for Wales - sorry cj - France were the superior team IMO.

[cj790]

Wow!

Great match - tense, fast, and it could have gone either way all through the second half. I admit to being very nervous the last ten minutes!
I agree that France showed much more flair and dynamism in the first half, and were easily superior. The game was a lot more open in the second half though, and as Rojo said, France got their reward for previous erratic performances.
Easily my favourite match of the season so far. Not a great win, agreed, but a bloody good watch! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[JediBendu]

last 10 minutes?! try the last 10 seconds!!!!

[cj790]

Sad to say I missed the Scottish game, but I'm glad they won. They've definately improved, and deserve to have some victories this year.

I stick with my earlier prediction for Ireland v England, sorry Rojo.


Seriously looking forward to Ireland v France now! If France put in a good performance (like the first half performance today) they could win it.



And Das; check this out:

http://www.rugbyaid.irb.com/News/

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[cj790]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Feb 26 2005, 07:53 PM
last 10 minutes?! try the last 10 seconds!!!!
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


I thought France always seemed in danger of getting another score - thier counter attack is wicked.

[cj790]

I thought Ireland favoured the drop-goal a little too much against England, I don't think they were very comfortable in that match at all.

I say France will beat Ireland by up to 10 points, if both play again like they did this weekend.

Wales should beat Scotland by up to 15 points.

England should hammer Italy. 20+ points easily.

[JediBendu]

England's demoralised now - I'm hoping they go down by 6!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/evil.gif

great game though - Ireland were just too good

[Rojo]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Feb 27 2005, 08:36 PM
England's demoralised now - I'm hoping they go down by 6!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/evil.gif

great game though - Ireland were just too good
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


I knew I was right. Sigh.

[Rojo]

Originally posted by cj790@Feb 27 2005, 07:02 PM
I say France will beat Ireland by up to 10 points, if both play again like they did this weekend.

Wales should beat Scotland by up to 15 points.

England should hammer Italy. 20+ points easily.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


I don't agree, I think the Irish should finish off the French fairly easily, but it should be a good game.

Wales - Scotland and England - Italy should be foregone conclusions I feel. If England loose, that's it, I'm going to France, or Ireland.

[cj790]

England won't lose against Italy, or against Scotland IMHO.

Looking forward to France- Ireland; I think it has the potential to be quite tense!

[James T. Skywalker]

I don't think I mentioned this (and, looking back at the thread, I'm sure I didn't) but my high school was two-time United States High School National Rugby Champions, in 1999 and in 2004.

We also won the California State Championship both years, and in 2003 as well.

I didn't play, but I knew many of my classmates who did. In fact, I'm sure it wouldn't be a stretch to say I knew everyone on the 2003 team.

~JTS

[cj790]

Good achievement! Nice.

[JediBendu]

I thought the North's played a good game in the first half, but completely ran out of steam in the second.
I guess it's the difference between playing at the end or the start of the season.

I'm looking forward to Wales and Ireland playing the southern teams though style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif

JTS - way cool! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif it's not often you meet americans who've even heard of rugby, let alone played it! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[cj790]

^ true that style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Missed the match this weekend! D'oh!

Wales and Ireland still haven't got the power to beat any southern team in a competition IMHO. Enlgand were lucky to two years ago - the cup will go down south again come 2007 methinks...

[Horse_Head]

When I was in Jr. High School in Oregon they offered Rugby/Aussie Rules as a P.E. class... It was tons 'o fun! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bigsmile.gif

Rugby deserves the international attention that soccer gets IMO style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif

[cj790]

^ more IMHO.

Football is a sport for hooligans played by gentlemen.
Rugby is a sport for gentlemen played by hooligans style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[cj790]

Cracking game between Ireland and France - France just used the ball a lot better when they had it, and Ireland were punished for relying too much on kicking. A good physical match.
I reckon Ireland won't play the same kind of game against Wales though - they'll probably go for the try line a lot more, and involve their forwards wherever they can.

[Rojo]

The battle of cj and Mazzy's marriage has been won by the groom.

Decipher please style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[cj790]

It gets a bit heated around here on match day style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif

[JediBendu]

i'm gutted I missed the France v Ireland game. Completely forgot about it till it was too late style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

Wales are gonna find it tough against Ireland methinks - Scotland (after someone reminded them to show up) were probably the better team in the second half. If Wales are complacent, Ireland will take em.

Scotland to beat England by 8pts!

[cj790]

I'd like to see the Calcutta cup would go north for a while, but I don't think I can see it happening yet. Will be a good one to see though.

Wales and Ireland will be a tough one. It all depends on the possession, IMHO. Wales have consistently shown what they can do with the ball when they get it in favourable territory, while Ireland have also shown some good powerful plays this year, which often lead to points. It's my hope that Wales will be able to count in 7s while Ireland can only retaliate with 3s style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
If Ireland have the most possession they'll win, and vice versa I think...

[cj790]

All I can say is:



<span style="color:red"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">Come on Wales!!!</span></span>

[cj790]

Italy impressed me - they seemed dogged and really took the game to France, even though they took a hiding. In a couple of years they will start getting a few more victories, methinks.

I have to admit to missing a lot of the Scotland and England match because of certain... celebrations style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer.gif

A much deserved win for Wales from where I was sitting. The Irish never seemed to have the attacking power or constancy to threaten for the win.

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:red">Grand Slam!</span></span>

[Rojo]

I am now bitter and twisted.

Where the heck is Johnny? He basically won the world cup single handed, we need him.

[cj790]

Why are you bitter and twsted? You won against Scotland - was it not a good win?

You can't rely on one person to win matches for you in rugby though.

[Rojo]

English Riugby has gone down the pan. This makes me bitter. And I didn't think we played so well against the Scots.

[Talcy]

Well, it doesn't take a huge amount of effort to beat us. Just keep a strong line behind the ball and we'll just run about like headless chickens. Even during a maul or a ruck, our players just look about, not knowing what to do. There's no organisation there at all. We need a tighter line and faster players who can preferably see what they other team are doing.

Word is that Matt Williams might be for the boot. The players are losing faith in him. He's meeting with Ian McGeehan next week so we'll see. But, fact is, there just aren't enough kids playing rugby in Scotland. We're a mess.

But it does bug me how the England team always seems to rely on one player to do it all for them. Aren't they a team? Wilkinson always seems to be injured so I would just stop counting on him.

[cj790]

^ Agreed on that last point 100%. You can let one man carry a football team, but it just doesn't work that way in rugby style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

It's a shame about Matt Williams - I thought that the Scottish game had improved this year on their other recent performances. Your criticisms are all dead-on, but at least you've got something to work with there. Look at the first performace against France (you woz robbed!) and the second half-performance against Wales - there is plenty of fast-paced energy to build on.
I just don't like how the managerial positions are swapping so frequently after one bad season; with so few international matches each year, it must be quite a steep learning curve in the management chair these days.

[Rojo]

*BUMP*

I guess we should discuss the 2006 Six Nations here.

Here are the results so far for the first weekend:

Ireland 26 - 16 Italy

England 47 - 13 Wales

Scotland 20 - 16 France

I think England are a safe bet to take the title this year, but only on the evidence of one weekend's play. None of the other big hitters, France, Wales or Ireland, looked good enough.

[cj790]

I'd certainly agree. Of all the teams, England are the only ones who are showing any sort of form. Unless France pull their socks up, I really can't see how England would not get the GS.
Wales were completely unlike the side of last year: predictable, weak, and without enough possession.


Predictions for next week:

England will hammer the Italians early on, and erode their confidence from last week:
England 50, Italy 12

France will recover some of their form, in desperation to overturn last week's result.
Ireland 18, France 26

Too close to call the Wales v Scotland match, but I'm hoping the Welsh recover their strength.
Hopefully: Wales 24, Scotland 15.

[Rojo]

Lewsey tips England for World Cup (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4698034.stm)

Somehow, I don't think so... yet.

[cj790]

Well the French played a good 60 minutes, then fell asleep. Some of the worst French and Irish performances I've seen, but at least the Irish recovered - they'll want revenge in a fortnight, and will definitely beat Wales.

England were thoroughly disappointing IMHO, and all credit has to go to the Italians. They might cause an upset this year...

A great game between Wales and Scotland - but the Welsh defence looks a little paltry to me still.

[Rojo]

Here's the results in full for weekend two:

Italy 16 - 31 England

France 43 - 31 Ireland

Wales 28 - 18 Scotland

The France - Ireland match I missed, but I was impressed by Italy and a little dissapointed by England's display. Still, the only team I am worried about for England now is France who were both sublime and terrible on Saturday, so I have heard.

Wales I thought looked steady on Sunday against a Scots side not up to last weeks calibre.

Next fixtures:

Saturday, 25 February 2006

France v Italy, 14:00

Scotland v England, 17:30

Sunday, 26 February 2006

Ireland v Wales, 15:00

I'd hesitatingly predict a win for France, England to claim the Calcutta Cup and Wales to beat the Irish.

[Rojo]

The whole Ruddock thing... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4717738.stm)

[Talcy]

YA $&!@#ING BEAUTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

18 12! :D

:beer:

Sorry to the English posters, but...YA $&!@#ING BEAUTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We finally pulled it off! :shots:

About bleedin' time!

[Rojo]

*sigh*

We sucked, but at least the Irish had the stones to blow the championship open today. Sorry, cj, but I don't think your boys have a chance now.

Scotland could be a good outside bet to lift the cup. However, I only predicted 1/3 of this week's results.

[cj790]

OK, with the World Cup only a few weeks away I thought I'd put this out again to see who's interested.

So - any thoughts?

I think the safe money, even after what happened in the tri-nations, still has to go on the All Blacks. They just have that little bit extra, their counterattack is the best in the game and they never, ever switch off. They are also blessed with some of the greatest talents in the game.

Australia could still pose a problem though - but can they really repeat the tri-nations win in a world dup situation?

As for the European teams, I can't see any of them matching the southern hemisphere teams. France have the best chances but should still come up short; Ireland are not the team they have been hyped as and can come apart under sustained pressure from the forwards; Scotland haven't got a chance from what's going on at club level (sorry Scots contingent!); England have too many injuries and the organisation is in disarray; and Wales also have too many injuries and a pathetic coach who has no idea of who to pick or where to play his best players.

There's going to be some cracking matches though - and there's still the final 'friendlies' first - I'm backing a Welsh win on the 4th, any takers?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

You're gonna beat us at Twickenham? :rofl: :nahnah: Actually I expect it to be a pretty tight game, could go either way. But I'd say home win, by less than 8 points.

I agree with your thoughts on the All Blacks, however sometimes they fail when they should win, whereas you can never rule out the Aussies, no matter how bad they are playing pre tournament.

I don't think the South Africans will be that strong, although they might get to the semis if they gain some confidence early in the tournament. Yep, the French stand the best chance of the Northern Hemisphere sides. I think that the rest of us will probably fall at the second hurdle, maybe one of us might even go out in the group stages. Samoa and Argentina and possibly Italy may be the ones to cause an upset. I think to be honest the rest of the teams are just trying to finish 3rd in the pools, but you never know, sometimes you get a surprise package.

I'm pretty gutted about England to be honest, if we were well run, we could have kicked on after the last World Cup. But the transition was so poorly managed - the team was changed too quickly and so the youth, which looked promising, were not correctly brought through the ranks and were just put in at the deep end. A few losses, confidence lost and then most of them have never lived up to their potential. Terrible management. Also we need to have a plan B for when Jonny is not fit, whoever has stepped into the role hasn't looked economy class let alone world class!

[Talcy]

What with this crap between Edinburgh and the SRU - I fear for Scotland's performance in the World Cup.

The SRU are behaving like blackmailing bullies while the owner of Edinburgh seems more content to act like the megalomaniacal Hearts boss Vladimir Romanov by axing players and them leaving mysteriously. Scott Murray and Chris Patterson?

But, I'll most likely be watching some of the games, my Masters project notwithstanding.

[cj790]

I agree with both you guys there - and Edinburgh really need to sort themselves out, otherwise there'll only be one professional team left north of the border! :(

Well, what can I say about the performance on the weekend?

Let's start with England:
They played exactly to their strengths - the forwards. Simple powerplay, ball-up-the-jumper, attack up the centre, which has always been England's best tactic and they proved how effective it can be. It looks like Ashton has gone 'back to basics' (how many times do we hear that phrase now?), looked at the strength of his side, and organised them into an effective team. If they can utilise their forwards effectively again, I can see them beating France...
My reservation is in the backs though - do they really have a back line to challenge the southern hemisphere teams? Can they get the ball out wide quick enough to get around a quality team? I think this is where their weakness is going to lie.

As for Wales...
You pick a 3rd rate team, you get a 3rd rate performance, simple as that. I have no idea what is going through Gareth Jenkins' head, but it certainly isn't anything about how to coach a national side effectively. He seems to be the complete antithesis of Ashton -Ashton picked up a side in disarray and has molded them into a tight team; Jenkins picked up a team on the heel of a Grand Slam victory and has single-handedly destroyed it.
He has not chosen the best team we can field once in his reign. Out of the team he chose on Saturday for instance, I would have said only three should have been in the starting line-up - Alun Wyn Jones, Tom Shanklin and Gareth Thomas (who Jenkins also didn't play in his best position as full back). Colin Charvis actually impressed me on the day. Besides that, the other players were pretty much all 3rd choices - Gareth Cooper wasn't even the first choice scrum half in his club! :banghead:
I know Shane Williams and Ryan Jones were injured, but where were the likes of James Hook, Gavin Henson, Dwayne Peel, Mike Phillips, Kevin Morgan, Martyn Williams, Adam Jones, Duncan Jones, Brent Cockbain, Alix Popham, Matthew Rees, Gethin Jenkins, et al? :giveup:


I feel awful saying this, but I hope we continue to lose like this until someone who actually knows the game takes charge. :mad:

[Jedi Master Harrison]

^ Yep, it is frustrating when a coach takes a promising squad and ruins it with idiotic selection. My feelings are that England still have a long way to go and I agree, I don't think we quite have the talent, or current form, in the backs to score tries against the really big sides.

BTW, apologies for being so far out on my 'we'll win by less than 8 points' prediction. :nahnah:

[cj790]

^ Lol, at least you were closer than my prediction!

Were you thinking of a Welsh win by that margin the next time we meet? :wink:

:nahnah:

[cj790]

OK, so a few more games under the belt and the world cup is now only 3 weeks away...
Any comments?

I was pleasantly surprised by Scotland; they've really pulled their socks up and played an excellent game against Ireland, who were more than a little caught off-guard. If they can maintain their momentum they could cause another upset before the end of the world cup, the ball is really rolling in their favour for once.
As for Ireland, I still maintain they are overhyped. They have some truly excellent players, but these players remain the core of the team and they don't really have strength in depth. If the key players are kept in check then they can be overwhelmed by talented backs.

I missed both English defeats to France, but what I saw in the highlights affirms my beliefs that their back row isn't up to scratch. Teams that can compete with the power from their forwards can and will get around them out wide with the backs, as I think France showed. It also results in the try drought that is often notable against these top level teams; I'll be very surprised if the boot of Wilkinson is enough to repeat world cup success a second time.

As for Wales; their win over Argentina will hopefully bolster the team's morale, but there's very little for me to rave about. More fluid play, certainly, but the same problems are still there: their forwards simply aren't good enough. The line-out is a shambles, and they are being kept off the ball too easily. We have talented backs but we can't use them to the best advantage because the forwards don't turn over the ball enough and lose it too easily. In all our defeats this year we have been starved of the ball, and Argentina starved us in the second half.
Still, a victory is a victory; and I think Argentina could provide an upset against Ireland in the WC if the team in green don't sharpen up their defense.

As for next weekend, I think France will win by between 10-20 points - I may there to catch it, so look out for me in the telly ;)

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Unfortunately I haven't caught any rugby recently, what with being busy and the start of the football season, so I can only go with your analysis, sounds pretty fair from what I have heard. Certainly you call the England weaknesses correctly. Argentina could well be one of the teams that might cause a world cup upset.

Enjoy the match next week mate, against France is one of the few times I support Wales! :sly:

[cj790]

Cheers mate, sadly I think we'll have our ar$es handed back to us on a silver platter, but who knows :innocent:

I'm personally surprised that Argentina have been ranked as 5th best team in the world - they are undoubtedly a great team, and have certainly improved vastly in a few years, but I think 5th is a mite too far up the rankings personally.
Still, Ireland will have their hands full unless they can dictate their match.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Yeah, I maintain that even considering current form that the top 8 teams in the world are the traditional teams - NZ, Aus, SA, Fra, Eng, Ire, Wal, Scot. Next up come the likes of Italy, Argentina, Samoa etc. They are all capable of getting good results on a given day, but not performing consistently at the top level. However, I expect that a lot of things will change in this respect over the next 10-20 years.

[Talcy]

Scotland - South Africa.

Appalling, appalling, appalling.

Two tried within a minute of each other?

And Frank Hadden's satisfied?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHRRRRRRRGHHH HHHHGH!!!!

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I don't really have much time to discuss it tonight, but what a poor show for England's first game in the world cup. Barely beating a nation, the mostpart of who's inhabitants know nothing about the game! We will definitely lose to SA and maybe even Samoa playing like that!

Mind you, none of the home nations were that convincing while SA and NZ looked strong. I didn't see the Aussies, but I expect they will be there or thereabouts come the end of the tourney.

[cj790]

I can't believe I haven't been able to post here for so long!!!

Ok:

England - disappointing in all their matches, but finally found some form yesterday against Samoa toward the end. I expect a similar performance against Tonga which will put them through to the quarters, but Australia will be too much for them. Will probably get a similar result to Wales.

Scotland - good performances so far, one of the best NH sides to be honest; but the AB's will beat them thoroughly and I don't know if they have enough muscle in the forwards or speed out wide to get around Argentina in the quarters. That will be a good one to watch.

Ireland - awful. What has happened to this team in 6 months? The biggest disappointment in the WC so far. Argentina will beat them, but not as convincingly as France.

France - Not up to their usual flair, but growing in confidence. Will get to the quarters and lose to the AB's, but don't expect them to go as queitly as in the autumn internationals last year.

Italy - disappointing. Not as good as they have been in the 6N. Will lose to Scotland and exit.

Argentina - Good. Growing in confidence and skill since their loss to Wales in the warm-up matches. I expect them to beat Ireland, then edge past Scotland in the quarters. Don't think they have enough to progress beyond the semis though, and will end up 4th.

South Africa - great team. Missed the Tonga match yesterday though. Too tough up front and with too much talent in Burger and Habana for Wales. Will definitely get to the semis.

Australia - very good so far, were pushed by Wales in the second half but had the skill to outlast the pressure. Will definitely get to the semis.

NZ - the best team in the world.

Minnows - all the second and third rate teams in the WC have acquitted themselves excellently IMHO. Georgia nearly overcame Ireland, Japan have scored the try of the tournament, and none of them have given any less than 100%. All teams have scored tries against their first-rate counterparts. If the next WC does reduce in numbers to 16 teams then it is a travesty for international rugby.

And finally:

Wales - not as good as they should be. Played for 20 mins against Canada, 40 mins against Australia, and 60 mins against Japan. Some good passages of play, but they have not re-acquired the skill of 2005. Will beat Fiji and put up a challenge against South Africa in the quarters, but won't have the strength in the forwards to get past them.

What are your thoughts guys?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I have actually seen a lot less matches than I hoped, due to being crazy busy with other things, but I think your analysis seems fair. However, I have a sneaky suspicion that Ireland may beat Argentina and the end of that pool could be very interesting.

It actually wouldn't surprise me if England lost to Tonga, as a nation we seem to have underachieved in almost every sporting competition we have entered into this year!

I think NZ and then SA are the top 2 sides, for once Oz may not make it all the way! :w00t:

From what I have heard I would agree about the minnows, ok there have been a few spankings, but there have also been some close games too. W Samoa are a decent side despite results and they aren't gonna pick up many points, I think 20 is fine for the next world cup, it would be nice to see it expand to more teams over the coming years, if the smaller nations can keep improving - it would make for a more interesting worldwide game.

[Master_Kinnon]

I'm not gonna say a lot about Scotland's defeat execpt....what the f***!

[Talcy]

Hadden needs a boot up his jaxi.

Fair play, there was no way we could have beaten the Kiwis, but a some points might have afforded us a little dignity. It's not like the All Blacks played that well either. Big mistake, I think, in using the team he did. But taking Patterson off...I'm not sure as his kicking was pants but we still had one or two opportunities for kicking points which weren't taken after he went off.

If we get beat by Italy...oh boy...Hadden will be in really deep crap.

[Master_Kinnon]

Totally agree, the game was an embarrassment! Too painful to watch, so I didn't see the end.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Well England got past Tonga, who played well to their credit. England were again very patchy and I think that we will lose by about 20 points to the Aussies - and I still think we have to up our game to get that close. We were ok in patches, but the Aussies will murder any mistakes. Tonga tried hard but they were very hit and miss - they were either brilliant at running or awful with kicking and set pieces.

Now, I just hope France go out of the tournament asap. I cannot believe the amount of the ignorant runts in Paris tonight wearing red. How about you jump off the bandwagon and hope your own side qualify, in a home tournament. :mad: :censored:

I will be supporting the home nations sides for the rest of the weekend.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I feel I have waited long enough. *Laughs at CJ re Wales and any Irish supporters for their failures.* :nahnah: Who would have thought Ireland and Wales would not be in the top 8 sides in the world? :blink:

Dear me, England are awful and even we can make the quarter final, don't worry I am already awaiting the return banter when the Aussies whip us this weekend. :lol:

There have been some interesting results this world cup. :yes:

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Erm, anyone?!

Wow, what a weekend, all my predictions flew out of the window, but back to form really, the All Blacks underachieving. England have overachieved now, there is no way we are one of the top 4 sides in the world, but you know what, I think we have a better chance of beating France then we would have New Zealand. France must be favourites to go through to the final but if England can raise their game again and Wilko is on slightly better kicking form, then we could get to the final! But whatever, rather like Fiji and Argentina, we have already done our nation proud. :)

I'm looking forward to the Scotland match, should be intriging.

[cj790]

Sorry about the prolonged absence, work's been hectic.

Anyhoo -

We deserve your mirth JMH.

Wales and Ireland had abyssal campaigns. I'm not exactly sure what happened to Ireland in the last 6 months; from the nations most likely to win the Grand Slam, and dark horses for a WC final, they put out the most disappointing performances yet seen. They never looked likely to win a match against any of the world class teams - they even struggled to beat Georgia! Awful, and seemingly without precedent. Very odd.
As for Wales: I know I've derided the coach on here before, but at the end of the day he is not the one losing turnover ball time and time again on the pitch. I think a few of our players have got delusions of grandeur; they just aren't as good as they think they are. Hopefully a new coach can focus on skills again, and pronto.

Scotland put up a brave performance in the 2nd half against Argentina, but I think they started with the wrong gameplan - the kicking in the 1st half didn't really help their attacking options, and didn't play to their own strengths. Good efforts though, and congrats for making it to the qf's!

I know I may sound churlish with this one, but what exactly happened to Australia? They had been playing consistent rugby through the group stages, then didn't ever seem awake in their match against England. I think it's fair to say that Australia did not play to their capcity, and if they had then they would have won. Que sera, sera...
England made the most of their chances and dominated the Aussie scrum again. Ashton knows how to mold a good pack of forwards, fair play.

The France v. NZ match was simply brilliant IMHO. I think Australia and NZ both assumed victory was theirs before stepping onto the pitch. The French subs, esp. Michalak and Chabal (man of the tournament in most people's eyes, assuredly) turned the game on it's head - great strategy by Laporte.
What has been really bad though has been the NZ's reaction - at least Wales and Ireland have accepted their crap performances and dealt with it; not content with sacking the coach (BTW Graham, Wales would love to have you back boyo!), the supporters have been issuing death threats to the referee, one of the players has been arrested for criminal damage, and there has been talk of how this will 'scar the players for life'.
Talk about throwing the toys out of the pram!

My SF predictions:
France narrowly edge out England, and South Africa's backs get the better of the Argentine forwards.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

:censored: get in! :w00t: :happydance:

Greatest overachievement from a sporting team since Greece won the footy Euro championships!

Whatever happens in the final, England can proud of the turnaround shown in this team.

Beating the Frogs in their own back yard, superb! Not even them giving Jonny non-match balls mattered in the end!

Can't wait to see who we play in the final, I would love it to be Argentina with our sporting rivalry! :w00t:

[cj790]

I think it's fair to say that nobody expected England to get this far, based on their pre-tournament and group-stage performance. As it is, it's been a remarkable turnaround and I wouldn't bet against them at the moment. It should be a good match with SA and Argentina tonight, but I think that SA have still got the upper edge - and set the scene for a great re-match next week!

[Jedi Master Harrison]

So, England v South Africa it is. Bearing in mind they have whipped us on each of the last 3 occassions, I just hope that the team do the nation proud, even if they are unable to beat South Africa, who I consider to be the 2nd best team in the world currently.

I shall be a very nervous man at 8pm next Saturday.

[cj790]

^ I agree with your ranking.

Should be a good match, sadly I'm going to miss France v Argentina :(
Hope Argentina can pull off the double! :)

[cj790]

Right: cast your votes - what's the score going to be for the final?

I say:

England 21, South Africa 32.

[Orandhite]

I say Wilko snatches it for us again. Not because I think it will happen, but I have to believe!

England 21, South Africa 19

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I think that it may be a close repeat of the last final - 1 try each maybe. The kicks could go either way. I think that SA have the ability but we have the tenacity. I see it being within 7 points either way. But I hope that we get there - maybe 22-19ish.

[cj790]

Great 3-4th place match last night!
Slightly too 'passionate' at times, but it settled after the sin-bins. Argentina scored great tries and fully deserved the win. Their defence was phenomenal too.

Now the main event...

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I loved watching the Argies tear into the French, great fun! What a hit that was on their 'caveman'! :w00t:

As for tonight, well it was a gallant effort by the England team. I cannot believe that decision by the fourth match official though, every commentator said try. South Africa were the better team on the day but if we were 1 point behind at that point we would have been right in it. Very frustrating. But nonetheless, very proud of the team's achievements. :wtg:

[Orandhite]

Considering how we looked going into the tournament, and the fact that SA score for fun, keeping the score to what it was was most impressive.

Well done England!

[cj790]

I think the better team won on the day, but it wasn't a great game. The disallowed try would still have not been enough to allow the English to win; but I'm glad I wasn't the TMO!
A very good tournament in all - some huge disappointments, but lots of unexpected successess too. If the IRB cut the next WC to 16 teams (as they were thinking of doing) then it's the greatest loss to the game it could possibly suffer.

Now there's still the Guiness Premiership, Magners League, some Autumn Internationals, and next years 6 Nations to look forward to! :happydance:

[cj790]

:scratchchin:

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I think the better team won on the day, but it wasn't a great game. The disallowed try would still have not been enough to allow the English to win; but I'm glad I wasn't the TMO!
A very good tournament in all - some huge disappointments, but lots of unexpected successess too. If the IRB cut the next WC to 16 teams (as they were thinking of doing) then it's the greatest loss to the game it could possibly suffer.

Now there's still the Guiness Premiership, Magners League, some Autumn Internationals, and next years 6 Nations to look forward to! :happydance:

True, but at just 1 point up or down the game would have been very different and England's kicking game would have been brought into play - something we are far better at that trying to run the ball with flair (although to our credit we had a go). A very different game it would have been. Still, 2nd best team in the world can't be bad bearing in mind we should actually be about 7th or something based on teams on paper.

The next world cup should definitely not be cut. The teams that are getting whipped now will be challenging in 1 or 2 world cups time - just look at Argentina as an example, plus you had other teams like Fiji and Tonga who's style was refreshing and they also caused - or were close to - some upsets.

Back to the footy thread for me until the 6 nations then........... :bye:

[cj790]

I think that 2nd is a very, very repectable place indeed, especially considering the form over the last 4 years! You should be proud of what your team has achieved in 3 weeks, rather than rueing missed opportunities! :)

I'd have killed people to get Wales into that final ;)

So am I the only one who watches club rugby here?
Or rugby league?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I watch the occassional rugby league game on Sky. I'm not a big fan of club rugby union, but again I watch the occassional game. I suppose the big thing is that I am out playing football on a Saturday afternoon when a lot of the games are on.

[cj790]

Yeah, I'm often busy on Friday nights or Saturday afternoons too. Always a difficult one to get around. Plus the tv coverage is naff. How many guiness premiership matches are televised? At least some of the magners league matches are covered in Wales and Ireland, and they're showing some EDF and Heineken Cup matches too; but I think that more coverage would really help broaden the appeal of the game.

Rugby League is great, but sadly I don't have Sky. Been to see a couple of matches this year though - and my team (Celtic Crusaders) were promoted to league 1! :happydance:

How are your football team getting on?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Well, I won't bang on about it too much and go off topic (not that there are that many participants in here but anyway) too much, but it's..........ok. Up and down, we are out of 2 cup competitions after heavy beatings, but have won 3 out of 4 in the league and are 4th out of 12 which is decent enough. Tomorrow we have the top team though, so perhaps I will post the result in my soccer thread (which also seems to have died with a lack of participants!). Thanks for asking mate. :)

[cj790]

Well lots of luck mate! Sounds like you're doing a good job in the league, so all the best today! At least you'll have less matches to play too, so you can focus on the league and not risk injuries etc.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

^ Always with you a silver lining there is! :yoda:

[cj790]

^ Lol, After coaching school teams I know the neccessity for looking on the bright side :wink:

[cj790]

So the 6 Nations is starting in a few weeks - any predictions now that the squads have been named? Who will win what matches?

[Talcy]

I'm praying for a better year for Scotland. We did not bad last time (I think?) and know we can do better.

Very interesting to see how England do without Robinson or Dilallio (sp?)

[Jedi Master Harrison]

To be honest I've been so busy I haven't even seen the squads. But, following some under and some over achievements at the world cup I expect a very tight competition.

I predict Italy won't get a point (more underachieving for them!), but each of the other 5 teams are probably capable of beating each other. A lot might come down to which teams can win away from home. I don't expect a Grand Slam or a Triple Crown win. But hey, I'm usually wrong! :lol:

[cj790]

Well, I think it's been a great championship so far (and not just for obvious reasons :) ); it's great that with 2 weeks left to go, there are still 4 teams that can win. Very open, and I haven't a clue what'll happen from here on - and I think it's fair to say that no-one would have predicted a few of the results we have had.

Here's my thoughts:

England:
The forwards are still great, the backs are non-existent. Sackey is the only decent one, but he struggles under pressure. They threw away the game against Wales because they were put under pressure in the second half and didn't cope - that needs to be addressed, they really should have the experience to deal with that by now. The result against France was a good effort. IMHO there are a few people who should be dropped from the team, but I don't want to be controversial here ;)

Scotland:
Performed well last year, but need to build on that platform - only Paterson and Walker look dangerous, to be honest. The forwards need to gain more ground than they are at present, they haven't given the backs a chance to show their true colours. The youth scored 10 tries against the Irish youth team though - maybe an overhaul of the team is needed soon?

Ireland:
Looking to be back on form. Could be very dangerous, but Brian O'Driscoll has been quiet so far (although I doubt this will last long). If they can get their backs running as well as last year, they could be back at the top of their game very soon. Next game is going to be the litmus test...

Italy:
Their new full-back is shaping up well. They've seemed to go against their old traditional successes though, in having a strong pack, and tried to develop their weaker, running game. They're having some success, but they should stick to their strengths when most needed too.

France:
Some excellent players, but not playing as a team to their full potential. Yet. Watch this space...

Wales:
Hit-and-miss. Some great running rugby, but the forwards need to retain and steal possession more than they are doing. The backs are looking dangerous, but the forwards are still the big weak spot. A decent second half against England, and good 20-min spells at the end of the Scottish and Italian games, but we are giving away too many penalties (again!), which nearly let Scotland into the game; and our line-out is still pap, as the Italians took advantage of. The next two games are the hardest, and will really see how good the new coaching staff have been...

Predictions:
Wales beat Ireland, narrowly.

England beat Scotland, comfortably.

France hammer Italy.

Then:
France beat Wales.

England edge it past Ireland.

Italy scrape past Scotland.

Winners: France.


Any other ideas?

[Master_Kinnon]

Went to the rugby league world club championship at the weekend....amazing.

Ok so the weather was more than cr@p and I was soaked all the way through to my underwear, but what an atmosphere. And the Rhinos won in the end! Great end to the night, even if the end ceremony took longer than it should have in the cold!

[cj790]

Nice!

Who was playing MK?

I didn't know about this, not too sure on the League dates (beyond the Celtic Crusaders matches, that is).

League is a great game though :)

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Sorry, no time to reply in detail right now, but I make you pretty much right on your predictions CJ!

Sounds like an excellent day out MK! Always nice when a home nation club wins something.

I'm going to my first ever rugby union live match this weekend - at Wasps. I think they are playing Harlequins. Of course, there will be no international players, but hopefully some big names like Dallaglio and Ibanez along with some up and coming players!

[Master_Kinnon]

Nice!

Who was playing MK?

I didn't know about this, not too sure on the League dates (beyond the Celtic Crusaders matches, that is).

League is a great game though :)

It was Leeds Rhinos playing Melbourne Storm. Great to watch a British club win something like that. Couldn't comment on the particulars of the game 'cause I'm just learning, but it was great to watch!

[Talcy]

15 - 9

WAHEYY!!!!!


I am rather a happy man right now.

:happydance::yeah::wtg: :beer:

[Jedi Master Harrison]

^ Was there a game yesterday? :wink:

[JediBendu]

Scotland just too good - they finally show what they've always been capable of!
Paterson had a blinder - to think he was going to be dropped!

[Jedi Master Harrison]

WTF is Balshaw doing in the England side when Josh Lewsey could be in the team - he was excellent for Wasps yesterday - especially under high balls and return running. It was great to see Dallaglio, Ibanez and Joe Worsley too. And Cipriani (spelling?) came on but didn't do much. A good game - 29 to 25 for Wasps - I'd definitely be up for watching that level rugby union again, very enjoyable. :)

[cj790]

^ Glad you enjoyed JMH, we'll make a convert out of you yet :wink:

Agreed about Lewsey - Balshaw is a big flaw in the current set up. I rate Cirpriani very highly - about time he showed his skills in international level IMHO.

Congrats to Scotland for a fortnight ago, and well done to Italy too - glad to see that all teams got a win this year.

As for my predictions: I'm pleased I got one wrong :wink:
You may guess from my sig that I'm a very happy bunny.
Saw the whole thing in Cardiff, busy as hell, great atmosphere, fantastic day.

Now I'm there again this weekend for the edf cup semi-finals: Ospreys (my team, pretty much the Welsh national team too) v Saracens, and Leicester v Wasps. Bring it on!

[Jedi Master Harrison]

^ Excellent, enjoy! I hate to say it, but Wales deserved it. I suppose it could have been worse, the French could have won. :laughing:

[cj790]

:laughing:

Well next year will be tougher I think. Wales are going to South Africa over the summer, then playing NZ, Australia and South Africa again in the autumn... :shocked:
Either this will make them a tougher team, or break them.

I think England, Ireland and France will def. improve next year though. England and France are reorganising more than the other nations, by the next world cup they'll be on top form. Some of the other nations, Wales included, are going to be losing more key players in the interim than them.

And cheers! Two top games of rugby in the Millenium stadium, with Brains SA on tap...
I'll try to enjoy, but there's no guarantee :wink:

:beer:

[Master_Kinnon]

WE'RE LEEDS RHINOS! WE'RE LEEDS RHINOS!

Rugby Super League final score:

Leeds Rhinos 44 - 2 Bradford Bulls

:rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon:

[Orandhite]

No, you're Scottish.

:wink:

[Master_Kinnon]

Lol I know, but I'm an honorary Yorkshire man apparently.

[cj790]

Lol, and didn't Bradford take the led in that match?

Sadly my league team, Celtic Crusaders, have pulled the Rhions at Leeds in the next stage of the Carnegie Cup. We're out of that one then, seeing as we've only just moved up into division 1 this year...

Never mind, at least the Ospreys will wipe the floor with the Saracens today :wink:

[Master_Kinnon]

Bradford got an early penalty and after that Leeds defence just kept knocking them back. There where a couple of times they reached the try line but couldn't make it over. Great game!

Bad luck to the Crusaders for pulling the Rhinos but you never know! Castleford played well and took them out, so you might as well :wink: You going to the game?

[cj790]

^ Would like to, but it's a little too far for me sadly. Plus I'm trying to cut down on the amount of rugby games I'm going to - need to save up for my summer hols :wink: