What Killed Vader?

[Darth Insightful]

I've always wondered just what exactly was the reason for Vader's death. I figure there are three possibilities: 1. The Emporer's lightning short-circuited his life-support system. 2. When the Emporer is thrown down the shaft, there is some sort of energy wave that surges up the shaft and seems to cover Vader, if only for a moment. 3. I've heard this theory several times and it intrigues me; that the Emporer's will was keeping Vader alive, and once the Emporer is dead, Vader loses his main life-support system.

Reason 3 is the most interesting to me, as it makes Vader's sacrifice all the more meaningful, assuming that he knew the Emporer's power was keeping him alive. However, it also brings up the question of whether it would really be worth the Emporer's effort to keep a half-dead former Jedi alive to be his servant, or to just find another disillusioned, all-in-one-piece Jedi to join him. Granted, Anakin was the Chosen One, but if he's missing a large part of his body as a result of his duel with Obi-Wan, and since we know midichlorians live inside cells and are what allows a being to have the force, how powerful could Vader have been and would it be worth the trouble to keep him alive? However, that question probably warrants it's own topic, so we'll save that for later. The question here is what was the cause of Vader's death. If anyone has any other possible causes, feel free to bring them up.

[Darth Fabulous]

I always assumed the lightning killed Vader, but now that I see it laid out before me I like reason 3 better. I have read in EU of an instance where a Jedi, Joruus C'Baoth, kept an Imperial general alive after warping his mind in order to control him. When C'Baoth was cut off from the Force via ysalimiri the general died a few minutes later, so C'Baoth was keeping him alive. I know this proves nothing, but at least the concept is not totally new to the Star Wars Universe. I like how it makes Anakin's sacrifice seem more significant, if he knew about it of course. I only have one problem with it, the Emporer would have to have at least a part of his mind concentrating on keeping Vader alive 24/7 for more than 20 years.

[Jedi D'oh]

I don't really think that the 3rd possibility is a feasible one for the reason DF stated. Rather that the 1st possibility is greater.

"Luke.....help me take this mask off."

"But you'll die."

"Nothing can stop that now."

I think that the life support system was failing. He wanted to let his son see his true self before he died.

[QuigonWindu]

Yeah I agree. But the last possibilty is interesting and could make a good EU novel.

[X-3PO]

I say it was his lack of breathing.

I like the third idea. There was a similar idea in the books, that Palpatine had slight control over all the Empire and that is why once he died, it all went down hill. There was nothing holding it all together.

[Darth Vegas]

Well first off, before the man in the black suit died he was once again the good man Anakin, the Jedi had returned.

Because of that fact, there is no way his death had anything to with losing Palpy.

Palps' didn't keep Vader alive, the life support system did.

He was seriously injured in his attempt to kill the Emporer, that's from the official site. I would imagine that his life support system was affected in the effort.

[Mothman]

I've always thought that the Emperor had something to do with keeping Vader alive. That makes his "Nothing can stop that now" statement have more impact. Otherwise, if it was just his life support system gone bad, he could just have Luke grab some tools and help him fix it. Remember, he said, "NOTHING can stop that now." There's got to be a connection with the Emperor somehow. To me, that's also why he earlier said that he MUST obey his master.

[Raganork8]

The reason vader MUST obey his master is because he knows how powerful palpy is and knows palpy can kill him not because of some force link If it was that i think it would have been explained more.

[MegoHulk]

I think it was a bad case of gas...I mean come on...an enclosed suit, some rancid nachos...the rest is history.

[spaceman2386]

lol

[Lord Laviathan]

I think it was just because his Breathing machine was severly damaged by the Force lightning. I believe that Anakin when he killed Palpatine was finally free completly of his control and was not a factor in his death.In ESB we see Vader's intentions of destroying the Emperor if he knew it would kill himself by getting rid of him he woulnt even think it. And with these thoughts of getting rid of the Emperor and taking control of the Empire for himself, Its obvious that the Emperor had limits to that control. Vader had much conflict in him in ESB and ROTJ and maybe even before that,he only needed the final piece in breaking away from the Emperor that was his son's Love for him.

[Raganork8]

I couldn't agree more also if you listen you can here vaders breathing become labored so that's a sign that the malfunction theory is true

[Darth Whaler]

While I agree that the third theory is very interesting and still possible, I think I'd vote for a combo of theories 1 and 2. His suit was damaged by the lightning AND the rush of energy got him. Double whammy.

[Raganork8]

Theory 3 is cool but too mytholigical.
Plus if ani is the choosen one he can't die he must fufill his destiny so the whole thing of palpy being the only reason he's alive is weird.
Plus if palpy controls his life how come he didn't just 'kill' vader before he threw him in?

[bodhisattva yoda]

theory three is just silly. hasn't anyone seen empire strikes back? vader was plotting to kill palpatine anyway.

he was brutalized by luke, had his hand chopped off, and was electrified by sith lightning, and then he goes and takes off his life support mask. theory three just complicates things much more than the need to be complicated.

[Raganork8]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@Dec 7 2002, 05:14 PM
theory three is just silly. hasn't anyone seen empire strikes back? vader was plotting to kill palpatine anyway.

he was brutalized by luke, had his hand chopped off, and was electrified by sith lightning, and then he goes and takes off his life support mask. theory three just complicates things much more than the need to be complicated.
LOL I couldn't agree more!

[Darth Fabulous]

theory three is just silly. hasn't anyone seen empire strikes back? vader was plotting to kill palpatine anyway.

Did it ever occur to you that Vader was trying to seduce Luke to join him and might say anything to convince him? Have you seen Attack of the Clones? Dooku asked Obi-Wan to join him and help destroy the Sith. Do you think he was serious? "Joined the Darkside Dooku has. Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are his ways now."

[Darth Insightful]

Well first off, before the man in the black suit died he was once again the good man Anakin, the Jedi had returned.

Because of that fact, there is no way his death had anything to with losing Palpy.

I'm not sure what that proves as far as debunking the theory that the Emporer had something to do with keeping Vader alive. Vader becomes Anakin again and his ties to the dark side are severed. Therefore, that would cut off his connection with the Emporer and any life support he provided, contributing to Vader/Anakin's death.

Plus if ani is the choosen one he can't die he must fufill his destiny so the whole thing of palpy being the only reason he's alive is weird.

I guess it could be viewed as being weird, but it could also be viewed as the ultimate irony. Think about it: I would guess that the Emporer knew of the prophecy of the Chosen One, and that Anakin was supposed to fufill it. Being the scheming fellow that he is, the Emporer attempts to get the Chosen One, the only person who can defeat him and restore balance to the force, on his side. I'm sure we've all heard the old adage about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, and that's exactly what the Emporer did. But the Emporer also knew that he needed to have something that he could hold over Vader/Anakin's head to prevent the Chosen One from betraying him. What better advantage to have over an adversary than the fact that you could snuff out their life with nothing more than a thought?

But inquiring minds would also wonder why the Emporer would keep the one person who could eliminate him alive. Simply put, it's arrogance. Luke is astute enough to know that the Emporer's weakness is his arrogance, but he (Luke) thinks it's in regards to sending the Imperial Fleet to the far side of Endor and not attacking the Rebels right away, putting his faith in the Death Star II and ignoring the Rebel strike force's attempt to take out the shield generator. Really though, it's in regards to the Emporer's belief that he could keep Vader alive by using the dark side and control him. The Emporer never thought that Vader would kill him because it would mean Vader's death as well.

Plus if palpy controls his life how come he didn't just 'kill' vader before he threw him in?

I think the Emporer was halfway down that shaft before he realized what was going on.

To clarify, I don't think that the Emporer's death was the sole factor in Vader's death. I agree that the lightning damaged his life support systems, but I also have a hard time believing that was the only reason. I think it's a combination of theories one and three.

[Raganork8]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Dec 7 2002, 05:36 PM
theory three is just silly. hasn't anyone seen empire strikes back? vader was plotting to kill palpatine anyway.

Did it ever occur to you that Vader was trying to seduce Luke to join him and might say anything to convince him? Have you seen Attack of the Clones? Dooku asked Obi-Wan to join him and help destroy the Sith. Do you think he was serious? "Joined the Darkside Dooku has. Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are his ways now."
First of all dooku was serious about destroying the sith he wants them killed so there can be balanced.
And vader was also serious if they killed palpy then vader would rule and luke would be at his side.
You can't always belive yoda even the jedi master is wrong sometimes. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Lord Laviathan]

I believe Dooku did want Obi-Wan, if Qui-Gon had still been alive Dooku would have asked him. I think Dooku is still power hungry he wants Obi-Wan to help kill Sidious thus Dooku is the most pwerful. But when Obi-Wan turned him down he would just have to wait for another to help him.

[Raganork8]

I agree a little lets not forget dooku is a jedi power is not his thing.
He wants to kill palpy because he's a sith and he's doing all of this bad stuff because he knows that using both the light side and the dark side is the only way to conquer either or check out my topic it's more detailed.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by raganork8@Dec 7 2002, 10:52 AM
I couldn't agree more also if you listen you can here vaders breathing become labored so that's a sign that the malfunction theory is true
I thought Vader's breathing became "labored" long before he ever got hit with the Emperor's Force Lightning. Wasn't he breathing heavy as he was climbing back up the stairs, after Luke had tossed him down them earlier? He didn't have any respirator malfunction then, did he?

[X-3PO]

Vader was breathing faster from the fight but if you listen after he is struck with the lightning you will hear a more mechanical kind of breathing, like his breathing unit was short circuting, or something. It sounds different from just his normal fast breathing.

[Bandet]

I guess most of us agree that theory 3 is a nice twist but just like Bond said.

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Dec 6 2002, 03:32 AM
He was seriously injured in his attempt to kill the Emporer, that's from the official site. I would imagine that his life support system was affected in the effort.


Of course his life support system failed you could clearly see Vader in pain when he raised that old man that hes not heavy but the electricity going in him hurts a lot and looks like hes burning.

[X-3PO]

Personally I always thought it was kind of funny when Vader is getting shocked, and you can see his skeleton from the electricity going through him. A classic Tom and Jerry gag there. I love it. And this only shows that he probably wasn't feeling too hot after those zaps of Force lightning. But I still think there may be something to the third theory.

[Mann]

I think Anakin (he's anakin now) killed himself. he had to use the force to keep himself alive, so when he realized he had completed his destiny and saved Luke, he just stopped.

[Krogenar]

That's an interesting idea, but why just stop living? I mean... I imagine that he'd been miserable all those years oppressing people, and being a slave to the Emperor. Now he's killed the Emperor, and his son is with him - he actually has something to live for. You'd think he'd want to live.

I think there's some evidence that Palpatine has some hand in keeping Vader alive. It would be such a perfectly ironic leash for Anakin. Also, I can't help but wonder if Palpatine would also have some control over the clone troopers. It would be easier to control them, considering that their minds are all the same, right? Maybe that would be Palpy's way of maintaining a hold on the military - through the Dark Side. Joruus C'Baoth, a cloned Jedi Master from one of the EU books, had that ability - to give a large group of people direction.

Also, if Anakin is such good friends with Palpatine, Palpatine's rescuing him would work in nicely with the story. I give support to theory three -- though we can't prove anything. The most openly logical reason is that the Force lightning short circuited Vader's suit. If Luke fixed the suit, it would have just ruined the story. It was time for him to die.

[X-3PO]

In the EU they do talk about Palpatine having that same kind of darkside influence over the whole of the Empire. And that explains that why after he was gone things went down hill for the Empire and they fought amoung themselves, there wasn't that lingering connection between everyone when Palpatine wasn't there anymore to pull the strings, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mann]

About Vader killing himself:

yeah he had his son and he saved the Galaxy, but he was going to live with the knowledge that he killed so many people, and ruined so many lives. Not to mention the only way to live is to put the suit on, which is a symbol of the evil in Anakin. I think he killed himself, because he's done so much wrong he'd have to live with it forever.

I also think all Sith Lords have some sort of ability to control others. Infact all JEdi do. It's one of their abilities. Anakin was weak minded, he succumbed to the Dark Side. And we can tell that most of the Imperials are imbosols. So, I guess it's easy for Palpatine.

[jawajedi]

From the Official site databank: "Vader was bombarded by the Emperor's Force lightning, mortally wounding him."

[JediBendu]

I would describe it as self sacrifice rather than killing himself, and I don't think the souls of the thousands Vader's killed played a part.
He put himself on the line (unconditionally) to save his son, in doing so he saved himself. He became a Jedi again in that moment.

[Dark Prince]

Correct me if I am wrong, but on the offical website, Palpatine came back into a clone body long after ROTJ, so, if the 2 were conected, then vader would be back too(which he is not)

[X-3PO]

But you see at the end of ROTJ Vader turns back to the good side, breaking free of any power the Emperor had over him, and so Palpatine couldn't have brought Vader back because he wasn't in the Darkside any more.

[Dark Prince]

I know that, so it probably was reason #1 and2 The force lightning and the weird energy from the shaft style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[echoseven]

The emperor had nothing to do with keeping Vader alive, if he did, Vader would have never tried to get Luke to join him to destroy the Emperor, so they could rule as father and son.

[Darth Insightful]

Thought I'd bring this little beauty back to the top, because I think it's an interesting topic, and the fact that I feel guilty for ignoring this part of the board.

[Justin]

I always figured the lightning short-circuited his suit, and that's why he died.

[Master Sage]

Here's my favorite reason: "What killed Vader?"
Luke's blow that cut Vaders hand off at the wrist caused Vader pain and should be considered a major wound, but not life threating. Then when Vader was hit with a leathal dose of force lightning ment for Luke, the damage to his still human parts was to much and his non replaced organ's started to fail.

My second favorite resaon: "What killed Vader?" Vader felt the good in himself and new that he couldn't live with all the evil he had done. By the will of the force he would die and he knew this and wanted to look at his son with his own eyes.

Just talking here.

[Smeghead]

The hand that Luke cut off was a robotic hand.
I pretty much assume the lightning shorted his suit and/or electrocuted the biological parts of him.

[Mann]

I tell you, he let himself die. He sacrificed his life to save Luke, and he knew that he had completed his destiny. So now, I think he's let's himself die so he can be at peace.

[Cæsar Iaius I]

The immediate cause of Lord Vader's death was asphyxiation. No other causes are relevant.

[Lord Chaos]

I have to agree with Caesar. Vader was dying from the damage to his body and life support from the Emperor's deadly Force Lightning attack, which is why he said nothing could stop his death. It's not like they kept tools around to repair Vader's life support equipment everywhere, especially on a Death Star he was only visiting to put construction back on schedule. Therefore, I believe he chose to die sooner from a lack of oxygen, even if only to see Luke through the eyes of Anakin Skywalker and not through the eyes of Vader. It was a self-sacrifice, as was mentioned by Mann.

[Jedi Ryv]

The immediate cause of Lord Vader's death was asphyxiation. - Cæsar Iaius I
Agree: Technically that was the cause of his death.
No other causes are relevant. - Cæsar Iaius I
Disagree: He wouldn't have taken his mask off if he wasn't dying already.

I think the lightning did short circuit his breathing system but I also suspect that any chance of recovery was impossible due to the intense inner struggle he had gone through. Just my opinion but I always thought that once he had fulfilled his destiny and broken his bond with the dark side of the force, the will of the dark side was no longer keeping him alive. So in a round about way I guess I agree with 1 and a slightly amended 3.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Mothman@Dec 6 2002, 01:34 PM
I've always thought that the Emperor had something to do with keeping Vader alive. That makes his "Nothing can stop that now" statement have more impact. Otherwise, if it was just his life support system gone bad, he could just have Luke grab some tools and help him fix it. Remember, he said, "NOTHING can stop that now." There's got to be a connection with the Emperor somehow. To me, that's also why he earlier said that he MUST obey his master.
I'm resurrecting my comments from ages ago. I realize that no one liked them back then, but I still do. This view gives a deeper meaning to Vader's demise -- not just a short-circuited life support system. It's my theory and I'm sticking with it! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif

[Cæsar Iaius I]

Originally posted by Jedi Ryv@Apr 8 2003, 01:02 AM
Disagree: He wouldn't have taken his mask off if he wasn't dying already.

The cause of death is associated with that of which attributed directly to the death. Suppose someone were to wander the streets due to a domestic dispute and that this person was then shot? One would argue that the cause of death was a fight with a family member?

One should hope not.

[Jawa Juice]

Originally posted by Mothman@Dec 6 2002, 02:34 PM
I've always thought that the Emperor had something to do with keeping Vader alive. That makes his "Nothing can stop that now" statement have more impact. Otherwise, if it was just his life support system gone bad, he could just have Luke grab some tools and help him fix it. Remember, he said, "NOTHING can stop that now." There's got to be a connection with the Emperor somehow. To me, that's also why he earlier said that he MUST obey his master.
you forgot one tiny detail..... THE DS II WAS BLOWING UP AROUND HIM!!! there is no way he could fix his suit, he just saved his son's life, he's not gonna turn around and risk it but tell him to fix his suit.

[khan]

I think the mask is not a breather. It's some kind of a lung-support device. Otherwise how he could he talk with luke when the mask went off? He died of hypoxia.

When vader turned to the light side he found his meaningless life as a sith had to be replaced with the light side of the force thus he felt a strong attraction of the force itself and he just gave himself to it. After the emperor is dead he transferred his soul to another clone of his. If the emperor wanted vader dead he could have killed him anyway.

[Cæsar Iaius I]

Originally posted by khan@May 3 2003, 06:04 AM
I think the mask is not a breather. It's some kind of a lung-support device. Otherwise how he could he talk with luke when the mask went off? He died of hypoxia.

Hypoxia is characterized merely by a definciency of oxygen in bodily tissues. One cannot die of hypoxia, because the condition is no longer one of hypoxia--but rather, asphyxiation.

[Darth Star]

Since the thread about Vader and Palyp’s new dialogue is now partially debating the cause of Vader's death, I thought I would bump this.

I believe that the injuries that Anakin suffers in epIII are fatal and he uses his darkside powers as well as his life support system to stay alive. In ROTJ Vader says that not even his mask can stop his death, though some will argue that that's because it was damaged by Palpy.

[Kapit]

i remember reading in the ESB novel that vader uses the dark side to help himself breathe, that's why he has that chamber on the executor, he practices breathing in their, trying to open up his lungs with the dark side. thought that might be interesting...

anywho, i think what happened is that the breather was damaged by the lightning, and thus the breathing sounding funny

also, the theories of him not killing himself are very good too, i think it's a wonderful idea, and makes sense, but it contradicts the breather on the fritz

anywho, this is quite interesting

[Darth Ridiculous]

The dark side of the force was keeping Vader alive. The suit just sustained him so he could be mobile. Anakin, like any other human would have died from the lava burns, but because he was already down the dark path the dark side was keeping him alive. When he fully embraced the dark side, no longer becoming Anakin Skywalker but becoming darth Vader the dark side gave him new life and invincible power.

When he threw Sidious down the shaft in Jedi he turned away from the dark side which gave him life and became "human" again. He was bound to die from his injuries, which is why he told Luke that removing the mask would not matter anymore. So in a way he sacraficed his life for Luke's.

Even though he died a 45 year old man, His former good self Hayden Christensen) is what became one with the force.

[Darth Ridiculous]

The dark side of the force was keeping Vader alive. The suit just sustained him so he could be mobile. Anakin, like any other human would have died from the lava burns, but because he was already down the dark path the dark side was keeping him alive. When he fully embraced the dark side, no longer becoming Anakin Skywalker but becoming darth Vader the dark side gave him new life and invincible power.

When he threw Sidious down the shaft in Jedi he turned away from the dark side which gave him life and became "human" again. He was bound to die from his injuries, which is why he told Luke that removing the mask would not matter anymore. So in a way he sacraficed his life for Luke's.

Even though he died a 45 year old man, His former good self Hayden Christensen) is what became one with the force.

[Ewok Hater]

Plus remember, Palpatine was just "toying" with Luke using the Force lightning. A short zap, then some taunting. Then another zap & then more taunting. Palpatine was just torturing Luke as he, (Palpy), was not being threatened in any way. When Vader picked him up, Palpatine was threatened so he intensified the Force Lightning, probably as harsh as he could to stop Vader. The intense lightning was the main reason for Vader dying.