Any EU authors or books to avoid altogether?

[Lirael]

So far I haven't had much luck with the EU; I read Kevin J. Anderson's Darksaber and thought it was pretty lousy, and found Barbara Hambly's Planet of Twilight to be just as bad. (What the heck was with this Callista character?)

At this point I'm wondering, are there any authors or books in particular that I should just skip over entirely and save myself the trouble? From the people I've talked to, Anderson's name comes up a lot...wish I'd known that before reading Darksaber!

[James]

I don't like the EU much either except for:

The Crystal Star
The Truce at Bakura
Splinter of the Mind's Eye

I thought Darksaber was pretty dumb too, and so was I, Jedi... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleeping.gif

Also, Zahn isn't very good

Also, I don't like Mara Jade. Luke shouldn't marry at all!! It breaks the Jedi Code!

Mara Jade is about the worst person ever in all of the Star Wars series.

[Smeghead]

<span style="color:green">DarthJames: Wow, talk about flying in the face of popular opinion... The three books you like are almost universally loathed (tho Truce at Bakura isnt that bad) And pretty much everyone likes Zahn and Mara Jade. And I, Jedi is one of the best books. But you're right about Darksaber sucking.

Lirael: I reccomend avoiding The Crystal Star, and The Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy. I'm also not a huge Kevin J Anderson fan, but his Jedi Academy Trilogy is referenced alot in basically all the books that follow it. Some people might tell you to not read Courtship of Princess Leia, but I thought it was ok.

Now if you're looking for suggestions of books to read, I'd say everything by Zahn, Stackpole, and Allison, but you should prolly try it in the right order if at all possible.

Anything else you need?</span>

[darthfool]

Hmmm The Crystal Star - didn't really like it myself. Still it's good to know that there's at least one other person who likes Splinter Of The Mind's Eye
I was going to suggest you avoid the black fleet crisis but my computer crashed TWICE and smeghead beat me to it. But yeah AVOID!!!!
Stockpole is a populour choice. I've only read the first 4 X-wing books but loved them. They are a definite must.

[Rogue_0009]

Crystal star is very bad and the Black Fleet crisis isn't terrible also don't read Children of the Jedi.

DarthJames are u utterly insane!?!?!?!Mara Jade kicks@$$,so does Zahn and I,Jedi :mad:

[Doctor Evil]

Originally posted by DarthJames@June 20 2002 - 03:0
I don't like the EU much either
When the post starts off like that, his opinion really does not mean much here. Especially when he later recommends "The Crystal Star."

Would you accept the opinion of someone who hates baseball, on who is the most exciting baseball player to watch?

Doc * style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

[Luthien]

I have read Crystal Star, and I think it is the suckiest, worst Star Wars book ever. STAY AWAY!

[Lirael]

Hey, thanks for the tips, guys; I'm pretty new when it comes to the Expanded Universe. For example, I haven't read the NJO or any of Zahn's books, but I intend to in the future. I'm curious about the X-Wing series, though I'm a little hesitant about venturing into a Star Wars series that lacks the characters I'm familiar with (except for Wedge).

I just picked up Shadows of the Empire, which intrigued me because it's set in between ESB and ROTJ...haven't started it yet, though. Hopefully it'll be better than Hambly and Anderson's novels!

[Doctor Evil]

Originally posted by Lirael@June 20 2002 - 17:0
I'm a little hesitant about venturing into a Star Wars series that lacks the characters I'm familiar with (except for Wedge).


I felt the same way at first, but the authors do a good job of easing you into them if you read them in something close to the chronological order. Read the ones that you know deal with core characters before venturing into others.

I think that is one of the cool things about the EU books. Mixing the old characters and new ones. For example, Corran Horn may be my favorite character of all time now. (Although after AOTC, young Obi-Wan is right up there)

Doc *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

[Rogue_0009]

I was a bit skeptical about the X-wing books but they're very well written and you get to know the new characters really fast

[Luthien]

Originally posted by Lirael@June 20 2002 - 17:02
Hey, thanks for the tips, guys; I'm pretty new when it comes to the Expanded Universe. For example, I haven't read the NJO or any of Zahn's books, but I intend to in the future.
You haven't read the Zahn books? Those are my favorites. I'd recommend them.

[Whuffa]

We should all just ignore the posts that start with "I don't like the EU" :sly:


You should deffinetly read the Zahn novels, and the X-Wing books have amazing characters and good humor (especially the Allston books).

The Han Solo Trilogy by A.C. Crsipin was pretty good also.

After reading those books you can start on the NJO, it's pretty good so far too!

[James]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>When the post starts off like that, his opinion really does not mean much here. Especially when he later recommends "The Crystal Star."[/b][/quote]

My opinion means as much as everyone else.

[shaps]

I was first introduced to the EU back in the early 90s with Zahn's books. I instantly fell in love with them. Over the course of the 90s leading up to the SE and then TPM, I continued reading all the EU books just because I loved the SW universe.

Of course there were some stinkers along the way... like Truce at Bakura, the K.J. Anderson books, Black Fleet Crisis, Crystal Star....

But hey, at the time it was better than no Star Wars.

I would say, try and read the books in chronological order. If you find one you don't like, just skip over it and get a brief synopsis of it from the internet or something like that.

Even with the bad books, there's some redeeming qualities to them... plus it's the summer, so hit up the beach with a book and read away....

[Doctor Evil]

Originally posted by DarthJames@June 24 2002 - 01:56
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>When the post starts off like that, his opinion really does not mean much here. Especially when he later recommends "The Crystal Star."

My opinion means as much as everyone else.[/b][/quote]
I did not say your opinion does not matter. I said your opinion does not matter HERE. If you do not like the EU, you have no business recomending any books. I stand by the baseball analogy.

Here's another anaolgy. If you are in a Yankee fan bar and you don't like the Yankees, you'd be best off to keep your mouth shut. To say the least no one will take you seriously and more than likely you'll be attacked.

My point being, if you want your opinions to be taken seriously, you might want to try a different opening line.

Doc :devil:

[cmulligan01]

Lirael, starting with Darksaber and Planet of Twilight is, imo, just about the worst place to start. Not only did you start with two of the worst EU books you didn't read Children of the Jedi, the first book in the loose Callista Trilogy of which Darksaber and Planet of Twilight make up the rest of the trilogy.

IMO when it comes to the books the two best writters are Ann Cripsin and Aaron Allston.

Stackpole I originally I didn't care for. When I started on Rogue Squadron I thought Corran was just dumb. I had played the X-wing game and I never thought the Redemption mission was hard. A little tricky but easy when you know what's coming. Corran knew what was coming, he and the others had done that simulation numerous times and they still got beat up. And this guy thinks he's in Luke Skywalker's caliber. That was just insulting. And then over the course of the books Corran turned into more of a Superman than Luke had been. It would have been more tolerable if Corran was put in his place a couple times but he never really was. I, Jedi was more of that and certain parts of Onslaught kept that curve going and Ruin was the height of Stackpole (and thus Corran's arrogance, just look at Corran's condition for returning given at the end of the book). Hero's Trial was a definate step in the right direction after that but for me it took until Conquest to fully recover my opinion of the NJO from Ruin, more or less.

I need to add to my above comments that for a few years Stackpole was one of my favorites. He truly lost me in Onslaught when once again he showed his lack of guts as a writer. He is fairly good but, imo, he's too timid and until he moves beyond that he'll stay where he is.

DarthJames you can gripe about Luke and Mara marrying but if you're only reason is it's against the Jedi Code that doesn't stand up. Luke and Mara were engaged and for all intents and purposes married at the end of VotF which came out in 9/98. Zahn had not seen the TPM script much less the AotC script when he was working on the HoT as far back as '94. It wasn't until AotC came out that we learned about Jedi not being able to marry though there were hints and vague references before that. Also since Luke doesn't know much about the Republic's Jedi Order he isn't breaking a rule he didn't know about.

However if you examined that more a future writer could change that. We know Luke has several holocrons if an author says he had one just decades old or with information just decades old (though what we know about holocrons I don't think that's very likely) then he should know about the marriage rule. Then again he could decide, in his opinion, that was part of the Jedi's downfall. If his only knowledge of Jedi and marriage is from the Sith War area he'd learn about Nomi Sunrider and how she was married to a Jedi and had a kid and then became a Jedi herself.

Back to the question at hand. I think a couple good places to start are either The Thrawn Trilogy or the Han Solo Trilogy.

If you like Zahn I think you will like Stackpole and then you can get what happens in The Jedi Academy Trilogy recounted from an alternate view in I, Jedi.

[Doctor Evil]

Now I can see why some people hate Corran so much. Personally, I like him a lot and never understood the resentment.

See, the reason I like him is presicely the reason you dislike him. I thought the EU was kinda lame with only the same few heros all the time, so the addition of a new one was welcome to me. I have just never seen this arrogance people talk about, but since I welcomed a new hero so readily, perhaps I just overlooked that. I will say that being a fighter pilot would, by the jobs very nature, attract the most confident, self assured people, just like they are here on our home world. Jedi in general seem to have similar arrogance in my opinion. Even in GL's movies.

Doc *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

[Meche]

Well, the prequel Jedi are often arrogant to a fault, as Yoda pointed out.

Corran was rather dorky, but my dislike for him is mainly because of his views on sex.

As for what EU to try, well it seems that most people first read Splinter or the Thrawn trilogy (begins with Heir to the Empire) first, and I recommend those as well. Then the Jedi Academy trilogy, which draws mixed opinions. I hesitate to recommend the Callista trilogy (Children of the Jedi, Darksaber, and Planet of Twilight), but if you want to know the background behind a few stuff such as Callista then reading one or more of those books should be quite alright--you may even like them.

I didn't like Crystal Star. But speaking of books to avoid, which is the whole point of this thread anyway, I do feel it should be alright to read any of them. Some may surprise you.

And don't avoid Truce at Bakura.

[James]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If you do not like the EU, you have no business recomending any books[/b][/quote]

I'm not saying everyone has to like The Crystal Star just because I like it. If you wanna like Zahn's books, like them, for all I care. I just liked The Crystal Star. I got it for my birthday a couple of weeks ago and thought it was really cool.

[Keiran_Halcyon]

I have two points in this forum. Lirael read the books that you want to read. If they sound interesting and they pull you in within the first chapter or so than more than likely you are going to enjoy the book as a whole. If it can't hold your interest from the beginning than more than likely it won't hold your interest all the way through. I've found that books that finally grab your interest by the seventh or eighth chapters will leave you confused in the long run due to the fact that you have six chapters of worthless text to work through. I do however recommend Zahn, and Stackpole. Both are good writers and have a good even pace to their stories.

As far as Corran is concerned I don't find him to be that cocky. Just sure of himself and his abilities. He happens to be very competitive with himself. He's not out to be better than someone else. He's out to beat his personal best. This can be construed as cocky and yes it is a very fine line to walk. Cockiness in one person can be arrogance in someone else. It's how the person acts that makes the difference.

[cmulligan01]

Doctor Evil for me Corran after a while was indistingisable from the way characters like Luke and Leia and other perfect characters.

I didn't see an arrogance for a while because I agreed with it. It was only upon getting older and reading more, both in and out of SW that Corran and Stackpole kept dropping in my opinion and then there was the death knell for my opinion of them with Ruin.

Corran was supposed to be different and became more of what made the EU boring.

[Doctor Evil]

Originally posted by cmulligan01@June 25 2002 - 23:53
Corran was supposed to be different and became more of what made the EU boring.

Just to be fair here, YOU THOUGHT Corran was supposed to be different. He was a creation of Stackpole, so it is a bit presumptuous of you to say what he should or should not be.

Now, you can say you did not like (or even hated) what he became, that is a perfectly valid opinion and I'll bet that is what you meant.

Doc *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

[Clara]

<span style="color:7000CC">Stay away from The New Jedi Order. They're terrible... No, terrible's to kind, but it will do because I doubt the words used to discribe it are allowed.</span>

[JonBob]

If you want the full EU picture, you should read it all. The writing is pretty good through all the books, it is the treatment of certain characters and such that people do not like. I think the Black Fleet Crisis and Splinter of the Mind's were both great, as well as the New Jedi Order. I would not not read something on somebody elses opinion, that would be stupid.

[jade51999]

Whoa! there's a lot of opinions flying around...

All righty,

i'm not an expert on the subject..but i'd say read them all, even the bad ones..

why? b/c you can distinguish between the two then..
my problems with Black Fleet and Crystal star were characterization problems, where the actions of Leia/Han and Luke were very strange..and based on their actions in ANH, TESB, and ROTJ i could never see them doing any of that...

DarthJames--as with all of us I respect your opinion, b/c a few people did like the crystal star--and if you did like crystal star i can understand why you wouldn't like Zah, Stackpole, or allston b/c they are completely different writers then Vonda McIntyre. *i may pm you b/c i have a few questions about certain sections of that and Black Fleet...

As for New Jedi Order (don't worry about them right now since you're just starting) I don't like the idea of having a blanket statement saying that the entire series stinks..it has its postive sides and it has its negitive sides..decide for yoruself...NJO is essentially a unique stituation that pulls charachterizations to their limits..you can only speculate what each of these charachters would do..

Certain books in NJO are better than others..but each series adds to this remarkable (refreshing and unpredictable) chain of events in an EU universe where i was constantly believing that none of the major charachters could ever be affected in the ways they have been in the NJO..

NJO changed the boundries of what could happen in a book....

~~~~~~~
lastly...
MTFBWYA style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
Lirael i would recommend the following,

Truce at Bakura
Courtship of Princess Leia
Thrawn Trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command)
Jedi Academy Trilogy

Note: this is where the loose callista trilogy comes in
Children of the Jedi is very confusing (in my opinion)...Darksaber, and the other one Planet of Twilght help fix what COTJ messed up..

After that i recommend trying the Correlian Trilogy
and the last two books by Zahn

Additionaly supplant all those with STackpole, and Allston rouge squadron, and I, Jedi novels..

(Corran Horn is one of those charachters you either love or hate..overall people like him..but reserve yoru opinion)..
~~~~~~~~~~`
oh and the point of her question was to find out what to read...not to make her not read at all..and if we tell her not to read NJO, Zahn etc. there is virtually no one left to read..and you miss out on this very interesting Star Wars development that is encompassed by reading ALL of the books.style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

once again just my opinion..
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
Jade/Priya[I]

[catwmnjedi]

<span style="color:#daa500">Yeah... what Smeg said up there.. third post. I think most of the EU defenders I know agree.

Hate Corran? Whoa... that's new to me too. He's one of my faves. But then, I kinda like Kyp Durron even though he's a baddie... I keep waiting for him to turn around.

Definitely X-Wing Series
Definitely anything by Stackpole and Allison
I liked "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", but I need to re-read it - it's been 20 years!
NJO is fine, but there are things that depress me

But like Clara said, listening to us won't do. You can see there are varied opinions.. you'll have to just try different authors/series and decide what you like.</span>

[lathian]

Heir to the Empire
Dark Force Rising
The Last Command

Scepter of the Past
Vision of the Future

'Nuff said

[James T. Skywalker]

Good: Zahn, Stackpole, Allston, Stover, Keyes, Denning, Brooks, Salvatore, Crispin, Daley

Average: Tyers, Luceno, Cunningham, Rusch, Anderson, Wolverton, Foster

Bad: Hambley, McIntyre, Jeter, Allen, Bear, McDowell

[Note: These are the opinions of James T. Skywalker, the Cloned Jedi Hero, and are not the opinions of anyone else. They're mine, you can make decisions on these authors on your own.]

~JTS

[Mookel1138]

Well put, JTS. I agree with your ranking. I find Stackpole especially good on my list. I'm a space battle fanatic, and Stackpole's X-wing books were heavy on the space and atmospheric starfighter battles.

I would also say that I'm not very into L. Neil Smith's writing (The Lando Calrissian Adventures). I just can't get into a story of his like other SW books.

[James T. Skywalker]

Yeah, I would have added Smith to my "Bad" list, but I've heard so many bad things about his books that I haven't actually read them yet. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

~JTS

[James T. Skywalker]

I must now add Stover to the very front of my "Good" list. He's more on the lines of "Excellent" (up there with Zahn and Allston, and probably Stackpole), but I only need three rankings for now. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

~JTS

[Mookel1138]

JTS, I would only recommend reading Neil's "Lando Calrissian Adventures" if you really want to just say you've read them. Honestly, I found it hard to concentrate on his writing. I'm not making any judgements, he just doesn't appeal to my reading style.

[James T. Skywalker]

Well, if I truly want to be a master of the Expanded Universe, I'm going to have to read them sooner or later. (Personally, I couldn't even get through Slave Ship... even that, with all the bounty hunter intrigue, just didn't appeal... like I said, Jeter=bad.)

So Mookel, who (besides Corellia) are you betting on for the GSL Championship Circuit? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

~JTS

[Whuffa]

I agree with your ranking, except I'd put Anderson on the "bad" list, and Bear on the "average" list.

[Justin]

OK, I can give you a list of things in the EU to avoid:

1. The Expanded Universe.

Does that clear things up for ya?

HOO-HAH!!!

[jade51999]

Thank you justin! (insert sarcasm)

i'll respectfully disagree...

there are somethings to avoid but i recommend going through it all even the bad stuff..(that way you can decide for yourself)

i'm not totally sure why Justin doesn't like the EU

If he doesn't read at all..it would make sense..
If he chooses to not like any of the EU b/c they aren't Cannon in Nathans sense or anyother..it would be ok--in that case my advice would be to go post somewhere where you can actually discuss stuff..b/c than you make having boards like this a moot point

The third reason i think he doesn't like EU is b/c he's just being a malcontent..(sorry i know this is probably gonna be edited)

I think that you (meaning the person who asked the initial question) should give the EU a try..just read it and decide for yourself..b/c there are different ways of writing and even in the Star Wars galaxy you have a choice as to whether you want to believe something or not..

All I have to say is this

If you don't like Star Wars ..why post at a Star Wars board?
in the Same vein--
If you don't like EU
go talk about the movies!

[Rogue_0009]

<span style="color:666666">Justin, EU is very good. why must you continue to bash it, it has become extremely frustrating.
I agree with everything jade51999 said.</span>

[Mookel1138]

OK, let me itemize my responses:

JTS: I'm going heavily for Coruscant. They've always had a good team (good athletic program, good coach). They're a definite win in their bracket.

Justin: I see no need for EU bashing and then gloating about it (hoo-hah? Would that be refering to the movie Scent of A Woman with Al Pacino?). Why post in the Books and Comics forum if you don't like the EU? It would seem that if you don't like the EU, yet you post here, you post solely for the reason of defiling the EU. I have to disagree with this sort of behavior. I see no reason to put down other peoples' hobby.

[Master Jason]

Opinions are like %#&holes, everybody's got one. If you want to know what the good one and the bad ones are, start at the beginning, SotE, and read them all. Each has its own special place in the SW galaxy. Decide for yourself whether you like it or not. At least you will have a library of SW books built up for your kids to read when they are old enough. Remember, don't judge a book by its cover. I've read many Stephen King books that were great, then I read some that were horrible. Other people thought they were great. It's all a matter of taste and where you feel like going with your imagination at that time. If you are reading a book that is not meeting your expectations, concentrate on a certain piece and make it your own. Twist things different ways in your mind and wonder what would have happened if this character had done something different, do anything to make it through. Then you can say it sucked or it was good.

[Lirael]

Hey, it's the original poster here; thanks for all the responses! I've heard a lot of varied opinions on the NJO series, but I intend to read it eventually...so I want to know the backstory (Zahn's books and so forth). I think I'll check out the X-Wing series as well.

Eek, series...I'm always sort of hesitant to dive into any big series, because by the end they can be a real letdown sometimes and you're wondering, "Why did I invest my time in this?" But hey, I've always been curious about the X-wing books, so why not. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[RedMirax]

You will NOT be disappointed in the X-Wing series. In fact, the last one, Starfighters of Adumar, is one of the best!! (IMO) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[jade51999]

RM i love your sign style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

and i agree with her too style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif SOA is awesome

[Ikrit]

I've heard a lot of what people's favorite books and comics are, but what about worst? Is there anything someone would warn against staying away from completely or risk having your brain explode?

[James T. Skywalker]

ANYTHING by Barbara Hambley, The Crystal Star, Darksaber, the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy, the Black Fleet Crisis, and the Corellian Trilogy come to mind (though the first four and last six [i.e. not the BHW trilogy] do play important roles in the overall continuity).

~JTS

[Brian]

The book I least enjoyed so far was Rogue Planet. What a bore! I don't care about the NJO ties in that book, it was just plain bor-ing!


As for comics, the Sith Era stuff was pretty boring. It could have been much cooler! I think the folks they got to write and draw the stuff just didn't work. Now if Ostranduursema worked on them, the comics would have been good!


Note: I haven't read anything past Tatooine Ghost on the timeline.

[Obitwokenobi]

Shadow Of The Minds Eye

[James T. Skywalker]

Originally posted by Obitwokenobi@Jun 2 2003, 06:45 PM
Shadow Of The Minds Eye
Splinter of the Mind's Eye, not Shadow.

~JTS

[Obitwokenobi]

Whoops... I've been taking therapy to rinse my mind of this unclean book.

Remember this scene?
slight paraphrasing

Halla or whoever: moans and grunts for a while and finally moves a saltshaker an inch.
Luke: Ooooooh... You're very strong in the Force!!!

[Whuffa]

The Crystal star and the Bounty Hunter Wars. Yuck Yuck Yuck! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Ikrit]

Of the one's you have already mentioned, the only one I've read is The Crystal Star, aka Waru the Cosmic Snot. That little fiasco is the reason I made the threads, so I can avoid anything like that.

What about comics? Are there any really bad comic series?

[BEARlyworking]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Are there any really bad comic series? [/b][/quote]

Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire

Just my opinion, but I would avoid this like the plague.

[Darth Badly]

Anything EU really.

[Luvinna.]

Yes, Badly, we already know your opinion. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

My least favorite books? Children of the Jedi and Shadows of the Empire come to mind. As well as the Jedi Academy books by KJA. Pretty much anything that happens in the timeline between The Last Command and Specter of the Past with the exception of the X-wing books (it was all a dream). I also didn't really like the Agents of Chaos books in the NJO.

Comics? Well, I've only read Union and a couple of the Mara Jade comics, so I can't really say.

[JediKeri.]

Hehe, I got Union stored in plastic.

Splintor of the Minds eye was bad, but that's expected...it was written back in the 80's...style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[DarthSolo]

Originally posted by O-B-GATES@Jun 2 2003, 07:32 PM
The book I least enjoyed so far was Rogue Planet. What a bore! I don't care about the NJO ties in that book, it was just plain bor-ing!



DANGIT!! I just started reading Rogue Planet. Oh, well maybe ill love the NJO ties.

For all those bashing the BHW trilogy, hey i kinda like em...i mean i know they dont do anything for the story, but I LOVE BOBA FETT OK???!!! but yeah they were kinda weak books. KJA isnt the greatest SW writer.

AOC series in the NJO i dint enjoy as much as the other NJO, but its part of the series so you gotta read it. Same with Balance Point.

[JediKeri.]

Rogue Planet is not that bad...I enjoyed it. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[DarthSolo]

oh kay good. i hate reading boring books, it just takes forever.

[Luvinna.]

I liked Rogue Planet, too. I really enjoyed the NJO tie-ins and I'm curious to see how else it's going to tie-in with the way the NJO is going right now.

[Brian]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Jun 3 2003, 01:46 PM
I liked Rogue Planet, too. I really enjoyed the NJO tie-ins and I'm curious to see how else it's going to tie-in with the way the NJO is going right now.
I guess I was just confused about all that "seed" stuff. That was just boring b/c it wasn't clear for me. The whole idea of a person making a ship based on how many "seeds" are attached to your body was kind of out there...even for Star Wars, IMHO.

No sweat, I still think the book is boring and I will probably never read it again. I remember the NJO ties so, when I start the NJO i'll be good to go.

obg

[James T. Skywalker]

Originally posted by JediKeri@Jun 3 2003, 07:49 AM
Splintor of the Minds eye was bad, but that's expected...it was written back in the 80's...style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
Splinter was written in the 70's. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

I wanna make a note on my least favorites, though:

There are only two Star Wars books that I have not finished completely that I own (some books, like quite a few of the YJK books, all the JJK, the Jedi Apprentice/Quest books, and the new Boba Fett books, I don't have yet). This is because they bored me to death. I survived through The Crystal Star, the Hambley and KJA books, the BFC and the Corellian trilogy. The only series I was never able to finish was the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy. I read the first one, The Mandalorian Armor. It was half-way decent; I started Slave Ship; I still haven't finished it, and I will not finish it. I bought it eight to ten months ago. I won't be reading it anytime soon. It was that bad.

Just a little historical note.

~JTS

[Whuffa]

Stay clear of Crimson Empire II. And Jedi Academy: Leivathan. Really bad comics.

[James T. Skywalker]

ALTHOUGH, if you're really into seeing all the links to the New Jedi Order, reading Crimson Empire II might be a good idea, as you'll see a certain infiltrator working his magic way before the invasion...

~JTS

[JediKeri.]

JTS: Yeah yeah...I spelled it wrong. And got the dates wrong. It's still an old book...style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[mtilden]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What about comics? Are there any really bad comic series? [/b][/quote]

Dark Empire

[bluemilk]

Oh definitly I would agree that Splinter of the Mind's Eye was horrible. I thought the Bounty Hunter Trilogy was really boring.

However I really enjoyed both the X-Wing Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron books and of course the Thrawn Trilogy, Han Solo Trilogy and I, Jedi. I haven't read in NJO except for Vector Prime and Balance Point. Currently I'm reading Children of the Jedi but I admit it's going so slow style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

I think the book I disliked the most, but a lot of people may have liked, was The Courtship of Princess Leia. I thought she was overly mean and heartless in this book so I couldn't understand why Han Solo would even have bothered. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Soontir Solo]

Definitely Crystal Star, that just sucked. So did Children of the Jedi and Planet of Twilight.

[Master Sage]

Bounty Hunter Wars was truely a horrible read.

Vector Prime was a great read.

[Zane Marit]

The absolute worst Star Wars books...

The New Rebellion - Started with promise but just soo disappointing
Children of the Jedi - BBBOOOOOORRRRIIINGGGGG
Planet of Twilight - I don't believe this woman has won any awards for Sci Fi writing...
Crystal Star - Weak story
Darksaber - Weak story

The problem with most of these is either a lack of believability or imagination. After reading Rebellion...I decided that I caould do better than some these "published" authors, so I took a stab at it.

I realized it is harder than it looks but I still think I could do better.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Zane Marit]

The absolute worst Star Wars books...

The New Rebellion - Started with promise but just soo disappointing
Children of the Jedi - BBBOOOOOORRRRIIINGGGGG
Planet of Twilight - I don't believe this woman has won any awards for Sci Fi writing...
Crystal Star - Weak story
Darksaber - Weak story

The problem with most of these is either a lack of believability or imagination. These are the worst but many of the other books are just average. An OK read and never touch it again. The gap between the best books and the average ones is fairly wide. Zahn Stackpole and Alston are definately the cream of the crop.

After reading Rebellion...I decided that I could do better than some these "published" authors, so I took a stab at it.

I realized it is harder than it looks but I still think I could do better.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Aurra Sing]

Crap, just started Children of the Jedi. lol someone gave me Splinter of the minds Eye, never read it though.

[LadySith]

Greetings ~ I hope y'all don't mind if a newbie just jumps in with both feet. I've been searching for forums with active SW book discussions, and I've lurked for a couple of days and really like what I see here style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Add my boos to Children of the Jedi, Planet of Twilight, Crystal Star, Darksaber, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and Tales of the Bounty Hunters. I also want to add The Approaching Storm ~ ugh! Now what did that have to do with AOTC? I expected to see far more than 3 seconds of screen time for Luminara since this book gave her such a big part. And I hated the fact that it basically blames Shmi for Darth Vader. I could go on (and on) but I won't style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif I expected more from KJA.

[Soontir Solo]

I actually liked they Approaching Storm and I thought Darksaber was descent.

[kevin31]

Originally posted by Zane Marit@Jun 12 2003, 02:32 PM
The absolute worst Star Wars books...

The New Rebellion - Started with promise but just soo disappointing
Children of the Jedi - BBBOOOOOORRRRIIINGGGGG
Planet of Twilight - I don't believe this woman has won any awards for Sci Fi writing...
Crystal Star - Weak story
Darksaber - Weak story

The problem with most of these is either a lack of believability or imagination. These are the worst but many of the other books are just average. An OK read and never touch it again. The gap between the best books and the average ones is fairly wide. Zahn Stackpole and Alston are definately the cream of the crop.

After reading Rebellion...I decided that I could do better than some these "published" authors, so I took a stab at it.

I realized it is harder than it looks but I still think I could do better.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


I agree, Zahn and Stackpole are definitely the best out there. And Darksaber did suck. I read it again so that I could have a more refined opinion on it..haha. Well...here it is: IT SUCKED. The book just...I don't know. Somehow Admiral Daala's incredible fleet goes down the tube after one battle? I don't know...disappointing.

As far as The New Rebellion...I hated it the first time I tried to read it. Just because it was one of the first EU books I had read at the time, and I had no clue what the hell was going on. My opinion after reading it again, though, is about the same as Zane's. It could have been so much better.

I guess that's all I can think of at the moment...just avoid Darksaber...just not worth the read. At all.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

<span style="color:blue">Probably X-Wing and Thrawn Trilogy.(knows I better put on flame retardent suit) For the Stackpole X-Wing, not very many of the characters interested me. Allston X-Wing, I liked the characters but hated the pacing. Thrawn Trilogy had too many mary/gary sues or characters too close to them like Mara(my fandom of her has gone down a lot), Karrde, Ghent, and Thrawn for examples. Plus I didn't care for Zahn's style in his writing.

I actually remember enjoying I,Jedi, Hand of Thrawn, and Enemy Lines, but it's been a long time since I read them. Dark Tide and Survivor's Quest were A LOT better than the author's original work, IMO.</span>

[brookie]

Originally posted by bluemilk@Jun 6 2003, 09:41 PM
I think the book I disliked the most, but a lot of people may have liked, was The Courtship of Princess Leia. I thought she was overly mean and heartless in this book so I couldn't understand why Han Solo would even have bothered. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



i agree, i put it down half way through i found the story to be dull, leia, a ***** and the pacing to be very slowwwwwww.

[Soontir Solo]

Sniper: I can't believe you didn't like the X-Wing series or the Thrawn Trilogy. That amazes me. I have never heard of someone liking EU but not liking those books. They were awesome.

Zane: Darksaber didn't suck that bad, not how your making it out as at least. Daala's fleet didn't get destroyed in one battle either. Almost all of her Victory Class Star Destroyers were fine and all 17 Imperial Star Destroyers were still intact. The only major loss was that of her Super Star Destroyer. The book had some good battle scenes, the thing with the Hutt trying to make a smaller Death Star was definitely bogus, and it had some good stuff with the Jedi, giving Kyp and all the young ones some spotlight.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Aug 27 2004, 08:10 AM
Sniper: I can't believe you didn't like the X-Wing series or the Thrawn Trilogy. That amazes me. I have never heard of someone liking EU but not liking those books. They were awesome.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

<span style="color:blue">I can tell someone has never been to TFN. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
As I've said many times before, I greatly prefer the Del Rey line over the Bantam line. I enjoy the works of Stover, Luceno, Denning, and Reaves over Zahn, Stackpole, and Allston. I even found the Del Rey novels by Zahn, Stackpole, and Allston to be a lot better than their Bantam novels.

I can stand the first four X-Wing, but I consider 5-9 to be rehashes of the first four. I'd probably also be less critical of X-Wing if they were general sci-fi instead of Star Wars. I felt the X-Wing novels, both Stackpole and Allston, got too far away from the feel of the original trilogy. The only one that came close to it was Bacta War, which is my favourite of the series.</span>

[Soontir Solo]

Well I thought they didn't get too far away from the trilogy, and if they did would that be so bad? The trilogy focused on Luke and Vader mainly. It was focused almost entirely on what would happen between them. The X-Wing series has a different purpose. It is to show what the life was like for an X-Wing pilot after the war. It didn't focus on the main characters from the Trilogy or the force so it would seem far away from the Trilogy, but I think it just seems that way because of the different perspective it does things from. It is telling a story from the point of view of soldiers and Imperial warlords, not Jedi, smugglers, or Sith. The series has great battle scenes, good humor, lots of awesome characters, and just an overall air of fun about them.

I still would like to hear why you don't like the Thrawn Trilogy. That trilogy pretty much catapulted the post ROTJ EU.

[Whuffa]

Also, I think the X-wing series has the most believable characters in the Eu ever. You can tell the authors had complete freedom with them, and while you're reading the books they really seem alive.

[Soontir Solo]

Very true, and not just the good guys either. The villains are really portrayed good as well, we get good glimpses of there personalities as well.

[Mask of Ice]

CHILDREN OF THE JEDI suck. Don't buy it! I spent days tring to finish reading it but to no boring avail. Don't waste money!

[Justin]

The Dark Empire series was a pretty bad comic.

[Jjm3233]

Children of the Jedi or the Crystal Star

[Sam Kenobi]

Children of the Jedi was bad, Darksaber was bad, and I've had Planet of Twilight for a year and a half and I'm one chapter in. The Bounty Hunter Wars were bad, but that might be because, and don't ask me how I did this, I read them out of order. I read them 1, 3, 2. I read the Splinter of the Mind's Eye comic, and it was horrible. The Star Wars books that I'm supprises haven't been mentioned are The Adventure's of Lando Calrissian and The Han Solo Adventure's. I have had Lando for two years, have started it about three or four times, and can't get past the fifth or sixth chapter. The Han Solo Adventure's were slow at first, but okay later on. I'm sure you all know my opinion of The NJO. Beautiful idea, but so much wasted potential. Most of these books I will reread, because I remember I originally hated The Truca at Bakura but I liked it after two rereads. I just misunderstood it.

And on a side note, Timothy Zahn is the nicest person in the world.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Aug 28 2004, 01:17 AM
Well I thought they didn't get too far away from the trilogy, and if they did would that be so bad? The trilogy focused on Luke and Vader mainly. It was focused almost entirely on what would happen between them. The X-Wing series has a different purpose. It is to show what the life was like for an X-Wing pilot after the war. It didn't focus on the main characters from the Trilogy or the force so it would seem far away from the Trilogy, but I think it just seems that way because of the different perspective it does things from. It is telling a story from the point of view of soldiers and Imperial warlords, not Jedi, smugglers, or Sith. The series has great battle scenes, good humor, lots of awesome characters, and just an overall air of fun about them.

I still would like to hear why you don't like the Thrawn Trilogy. That trilogy pretty much catapulted the post ROTJ EU.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

<span style="color:blue">First, I need to state something first. I watch/read Star Wars because I enjoy jedi. They are what makes Star Wars what it is to me. So whenever I'm talking Star Wars, I come from a very pro-Jedi/Sith/Force users point of view. That is the main reason for my dislike of X-Wing. It doesn't have the thing that I like Star Wars for.

X-Wing came with poor execution. Stackpole focussed on too few characters, and I didn't care for them. The only ones in Stackpole X-Wing I really liked were the Loor and Wedge parts.(didn't really care for Corran till I,Jedi.) Plus I hate Isard. That was a very failed attempt to have a villain out do the Emperor. She was an idiot, and her sections were a waste of time.

At least Allston's novels had some halfway interesting characters.(Kell, Zsinj, Face, and Ton) I didn't like his pacing though. Wraith Squadron seemed to stumble along for too long. Plus you knew how the Zsinj campaign would end four years before these novels came out. I also find Allston's humour to be bad. I don't even want to start on the horridity that was Starfighters of Adumar. Having an entire planet of people talking like idiots, and the plot taking the backseat to very bad attempts at humour. The only Allston jokes I found funny were the original Lt. Kettch and the personal cloaking device.

I don't think X-Wing had an air of fun. It didn't get much fun out of the series. Also I don't care for the battle scenes. If I don't care about the characters or like the pacing, I don't care for the battles. I highly suggest you read MedStar. It is what X-Wing should be.

Now to Zahn. My listed criticism of it was too many Mary/Gary Sues. Lets start Thrawn. Thrawn is written to be the most terrifying villain ever. This is a attempt to make the Emperor and Vader to look like inferior villains, which the movies have clearly shown they aren't. Han, Leia, Luke, and company are scared when he is mention, but Karrde stays calm. Karrde has connections everywhere and can always get information. Ghent is the perfect slicer. Mara is now made to look like she wasn't so bad when she was a dark jedi and she loved her job as Emperor's Hand. There is also the whole talk in Vision with Luke. How does a minor adept know more about the force than a jedi master? Sorry, but it's laughable.

I don't care that Thrawn Trilogy set the stage for the post-ROTJ works. The only one I really like is New Jedi Order. Prequel Trilogy EU is far superior to post-ROTJ EU. PT EU feels like the Prequels when post-ROTJ don't. For a product that's supposed to be like what is based off of(which EUs for all movies are), Thrawn Trilogy and X-Wing fail horribly. I don't consider them Star Wars by any means.</span>

[Sam Kenobi]

Well, in a logical view, the PT EU feels more like the PT than the post-RotJ EU because it takes place before. Put it this way; 1990 was more like 1995 than 2000 was. The galaxy is changing, so it is expected to become different. Another point, if youi look at this from a Star Wars Universe perspective, the movies are only a smidgen of what happens in Star Wars. You could almost say the movies are nothing liek the EU, as opposed to the EU is nothing like Star Wars. All the movies do is put the very important moments of Star Wars on the big screen. If George ever changes his mind, and decides to make some of the books into movies, than the most important things to happen in Star Wars would most likely be chosen, such as the fall of Isard, the fall of Thrawn/the birth of the twins, the fall of Zsinj/marriage of Han & Leia, Imperial - New Republic Peace/the marriage of Luke and Mara, and the Entire NJO (the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, Chewie's death, the birth of Ben Skywalker, Anakin's heartwhrenching death, the fall of Coruscant, the battle of Yuuzhan'tar (*SP), and the resolution of the Vong.)

I hope this made as much sense as I thought it does.

[kevin31]

I've seen some people say they didn't like the Bounty Hunter Wars...I'm close to finishing the first book, and I like it. It's not like most of the novels...it does a lot of jumping around as far as the setting's time goes. But, I still think it's good and I shall defend it!

[Soontir Solo]

Sniper: Well I see your point about the X-Wing Series, I don't agree but we can't change that. There isn't the focus on Jedi, I still don't think that makes it dull or bad EU at all. Basically I disagree with everything you said in your post. I think Isard was a good villain. I thought Allston had good humor. I loved Starfighters of Adumar. I loved the humor in it. With this it is just difference in opinion, and I can't respect that at least.

The Thrawn trilogy I really disagree about with you though. I don't think the point was to portray Thrawn to be more terriying than Palpatine and Vader. Thrawn wasn't meant to be greater than them and a bigger threat. If he was then he wouldn't of been beaten. He was meant to be a different kind of enemy thats all, to give the readers another type of enemy to read about, one that is intelligent and uses tactics and strategy rather than the dark side and overwhelming strength. I like the additions of Kaard and Ghent, too good characters. I don't see any problems with Kaarde being an information specialist and Ghent being an expert hacker. Mara wasn't a dark Jedi. She was an assasin/spy/special agent with force abilities, doesn't make you a dark Jedi. She had no lightsaber, her force skills were almost non-existant, and she wasn't evil. She didn't know more about the force than Luke, and she didn't act like she did. She simply saw things with Luke that she didn't like and pointed them out to him, doesn't mean she knows more about the force, simply that she has an opinion about something and she let him know. I think you jumped to way too many conclusions with these books.

[Sam Kenobi]

You wanna' know what I'm tired of in Star Wars Novels? And the NJO was really bad at this, too. Whenever someone wasn't sure if they could trust someone, they would say, "Well, if this person wanted to kill me, they could have done it a dozen times by now, so its okay, I can trust them." That is REALLY ANNOYING! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif

[Whuffa]

lol! That is annoying, I remember thinking just that while I was rereading the NJO recently. I think Jaina thought that about Ta Chume, and I was like "wow, does the dark side make you stupid, too?"

[Soontir Solo]

That didn't really annoy me, it was to be expected. All movies and books have that said all the time.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Aug 30 2004, 12:02 AM
Sniper: Well I see your point about the X-Wing Series, I don't agree but we can't change that. There isn't the focus on Jedi, I still don't think that makes it dull or bad EU at all. Basically I disagree with everything you said in your post. I think Isard was a good villain. I thought Allston had good humor. I loved Starfighters of Adumar. I loved the humor in it. With this it is just difference in opinion, and I can't respect that at least.

The Thrawn trilogy I really disagree about with you though. I don't think the point was to portray Thrawn to be more terriying than Palpatine and Vader. Thrawn wasn't meant to be greater than them and a bigger threat. If he was then he wouldn't of been beaten. He was meant to be a different kind of enemy thats all, to give the readers another type of enemy to read about, one that is intelligent and uses tactics and strategy rather than the dark side and overwhelming strength. I like the additions of Kaard and Ghent, too good characters. I don't see any problems with Kaarde being an information specialist and Ghent being an expert hacker. Mara wasn't a dark Jedi. She was an assasin/spy/special agent with force abilities, doesn't make you a dark Jedi. She had no lightsaber, her force skills were almost non-existant, and she wasn't evil. She didn't know more about the force than Luke, and she didn't act like she did. She simply saw things with Luke that she didn't like and pointed them out to him, doesn't mean she knows more about the force, simply that she has an opinion about something and she let him know. I think you jumped to way too many conclusions with these books.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

<span style="color:blue">Mara was slicing people up in "Mara Jade: By The Emperor's Hand" with a lightsabre, and this at the time of ROTJ. Also her forces powers were not non-existent there. Thrawn said he talked down the Emperor four times. That makes the Emperor look like a fool, which he isn't. Ghent had no substance. All it was "I'm an expert slicer, and watch me slice away." All he ever do. Karrde is also a weak character. He's stayed the same through out all of the novels he's in. "I'm the best source of information, I am never wrong" etc. Mara has no right to say what she said. When she's experinced as Luke, maybe, but that's a long ways away.

In cased you wondered, "Mara Jade: By The Emperor's Hand" is a comic written by Zahn/Stackpole. It deals with Mara right after the Emperor's death. I highly suggest you read it because it deals with Mara's days as Emperor's Hand.</span>

[Sam Kenobi]

Untill they make more comic anthologies (like the Clone Wars stuff and the Thrawn Crisis Trilogy) I can't/won't buy any comics. They're too expensive. Same with the childrens books. I just started reading The Jedi Knights Series, because they came out with three-book anthologies. I just wish I would have read them before I read the NJO. I would have appreciated so much stuff in their so much more.

[Soontir Solo]

"Mara was slicing people up in "Mara Jade: By The Emperor's Hand" with a lightsabre, and this at the time of ROTJ. Also her forces powers were not non-existent there. Thrawn said he talked down the Emperor four times. That makes the Emperor look like a fool, which he isn't. Ghent had no substance. All it was "I'm an expert slicer, and watch me slice away." All he ever do. Karrde is also a weak character. He's stayed the same through out all of the novels he's in. "I'm the best source of information, I am never wrong" etc. Mara has no right to say what she said. When she's experinced as Luke, maybe, but that's a long ways away."

Sniper: First off Zahn wrote in his HOT Duology that Mara wasn't really dark, she did some bad things of course but she wasn't a fully trained Dark Jedi. She was barely a Dark Jedi Apprentice. She wasn't trained to be a Dark Jedi or a Sith like Palpatine did with Vader. And I didn't say her force powers were non-existant, I said they almost were. I should have also added when compared to Luke, Palpatine, or Vaders force powers. Ghent wasn't supposed to be this great main character, just a small role for someone with computer skills. I think Kaarde is an awesome character. He didn't stay the same at all. In Heir to the Empire he was very anti-Republic and wouldn't trust them or anything. By the end of the series he is helping Leia get to Luke and everybody, organizing a smuggler fleet to fight Thrawn alongside the New Republic, and cutting deals with Leia and Mon Mothma.
Kaarde is an arrogant character, and he does know more information than pretty much everyone else so why should't he say it. And I don't get the attitude that he thinks he can never be wrong. I really don't know where you get that. Maybe you mistake his confidence for that but I don't.

Everyone has a right to an opinion, Mara Jade had every right to say this to Luke because she has a right to an opinion. Corran Horn thought alot of the same stuff as Mara in I, Jedi. He left the Academy in large part because of Luke. He had his right to an opinion too. And he let Luke know alot of it, not all of it thought because he felt sorry for Luke at the time.

[Mask of Ice]

DArksaber was good!
POT sucks!

[Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)]

Originally posted by Mask of Ice@Sep 1 2004, 05:44 PM
DArksaber was good!
POT sucks!
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


It's interesting how different people perceive things so differently.

I thought Darksaber was appalling, but didn't mind PoT so much.

To me Darksaber was the least enjoyable EU item I've read, and The Crystal Star just didn't feel right - the characterisations of the adults were off-kilter. I did enjoy reading the kids' parts though.

[Sam Kenobi]

Children of the Jedi was really wierd, and after already reading the HOT Duology and half of the NJO, seeing Luke fall in love like that left me with a bad taste in my mouth. That book was the most far away from Star Wars.

[Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)]

in fairness to Barbara Hambly, CotJ was written well before HoT (and Ep II which really mucked things up for her as far as married Jedi went) - but I didn't really like the Luke parts either.

I did quite like the Han and Leia stuff, though.

[Sam Kenobi]

Well, then it can slide, but only a little. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Soontir Solo]

I thought Darksaber wasn't that bad because of the battles and all the Jed in it. That is what was lacking in COTJ and POT, and there plots were worse than Darksaber I thought.

[Sam Kenobi]

And that was one of the first attepmts at killing of major characters (Crix Madine).

[Soontir Solo]

I didn't consider Madine major, but if you consider him major then he wasn't the first. What about all the pilots who died in the X-Wing Series? And there was Dorsk 81, alot of evil characters like Isard were definitely major characters that died as well.

[Lord Ulic]

I think he meant characters who had an important role in the movies. Madine did help alot at the battle of Endor.

[Sam Kenobi]

Exactly.

[Obi-Stu]

I've haven't gotten too far into the EU timeline, but I thought "The Crystal Star" was terrible.

[Soontir Solo]

I don't think he helped alot at Endor. Ackbar led the fleet, Lando led the fighters, Han led teh Strike Team. Madine designed the idea for destroying the shield generators but that is all, wasn't anything genius to it and he didn't do it himself. If it hadn't been for Han and everybody making allies with the Ewoks it would have failed.

[Mask of Ice]

I'll serve under Syndic Mitth'rawn'nuruodo anyday.

[Durnar]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Sep 8 2004, 04:15 AM
I don't think he helped alot at Endor. Ackbar led the fleet, Lando led the fighters, Han led teh Strike Team. Madine designed the idea for destroying the shield generators but that is all, wasn't anything genius to it and he didn't do it himself. If it hadn't been for Han and everybody making allies with the Ewoks it would have failed.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

According to the deleted scenes of ROTJ, Madine commanded one of the Rebel Capital ships. So he did do a little more than you think.

[Soontir Solo]

Even that wasn't that important, if that is true. What did he do that was so great in the battle? It was Ackbar, Calrissian, Skywalker, Solo, and Antilles who were the main heroes of that battle.

Mask of Ice: I would too, I would rather serve under Thrawn then anyother commander in Star Wars.

[cj790]

There are some truly diabolical SW things published. For books I would say:
The Crystal Star
The Truce at Bakura
Planet of Twilight
The Correllian Trilogy

and for comics:
Union
Dark Empire2
Empire's End
Jedi vs Sith
Rogue Squadron
Requiem for a Rogue

are the worst IMHO.

[Soontir Solo]

I didn't see anything wrong with the Corellian Trilogy really. It was great but it certainly wasn't "diabolical." And I don't like comics period so I can't disagree with you about that.

[Durnar]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Sep 14 2004, 06:59 PM
I didn't see anything wrong with the Corellian Trilogy really. It was great but it certainly wasn't "diabolical." And I don't like comics period so I can't disagree with you about that.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

Why dont you like comics Soontir?

[Soontir Solo]

I view Comics to be too childish. I like good novels with a real story and plenty of detail.

[Durnar]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Sep 14 2004, 07:27 PM
I view Comics to be too childish. I like good novels with a real story and plenty of detail.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

No offence, but I think thats a bit ignorant. Have you read an issue of Republic lately? That series is fantastically written, especially work by the Jan and John team. And the detail is all there, but in pictures rather than words.

[Kapit]

the only reason i will read a comic is if it's the TALES series, or if it's something i REALLY want to see, for example, the ARC troopers

other than that, it's kinda nice sometimes to take a load off the brain and look at some pictures

[Soontir Solo]

Durnar: Can a comic honestly offer the same size of a story, or the same amount of detail? I have read a few Star Wars comics and find them to be childish and lacking of what I look for in a story. Call it ignorant if you wish but I think thinking a comic and can be as detailed as a Star Wars novel is ignorant.

[Lord Ulic]

For me the current Republic series really captures the feeling of the Clone Wars. We should take this to the EUDF pratice thread.

[Soontir Solo]

Originally posted by Lord Ulic@Sep 15 2004, 02:12 PM
For me the current Republic series really captures the feeling of the Clone Wars. We should take this to the EUDF pratice thread.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



Maybe, I would have to support anything bashing the comics though.

[Whuffa]

I think that saying how one form of art must offer more depth then another is narrowminded. Stories can be told in many ways and in many forms and I have read SW comics with much greater depth than a lot of SW novels. It all depends on the artist not the art form. Saying that SW comics are generaly more childish than SW novels is analogous to (although this is something much more significant) saying that the great painters of the past did work with less depth than the great novelists. You just can't compare two forms of art that way.

And have you even read such great SW comics as "Twilight", "Darkness", "Chewbacca", "Darklighter" etc. , not to mention many modern, highly moving, non-SW classics?

Don't bash something unless you've studied it and found out it was bad from experience.

[cj790]

Something you are missing here Soontir is that SW comics are not representative of the medium as a whole - just as SW novels are not representative of literature as a whole, but merely a merchandised genre of it. There have been some pretty impressive comics over the years; the medium has a lot to offer when fully realised by authors such as Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, et al. ; things that could never work in literature or film in the same way. To decry the medium as a whole seems churlish, especially when you have not looked at it.
Can you imagine someone saying "I don't like reading books beacuse I read The Crystal Star and hated it, therefore the medium must be cr*p"! You'd probably direct them to more accomplished texts and authors.
Have a look around at some more mature comics, not just superhero or SW stuff. You might like what is out there style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Durnar]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Sep 15 2004, 06:30 PM
Durnar: Can a comic honestly offer the same size of a story, or the same amount of detail? I have read a few Star Wars comics and find them to be childish and lacking of what I look for in a story. Call it ignorant if you wish but I think thinking a comic and can be as detailed as a Star Wars novel is ignorant.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

Ok, your ignorant. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
Comics can and have offered better size and quality of stories than novels. Cos frankly, youre missing the point of the whole medium:
1. You cannot compare 1 issue of a comic to one novel. Comics are serialized, so when you actually get all the isssues of one story, its a much bigger story than your probably looking at.
2. Comics do offer the same amount of detail, but visually rather than in text. Instead of saying 'the character scowled' you see the character scowling. Thats where a lot of a novel goes: describing detials of charactes, places etc. Instead, theyre given to you visually, which lets writers concentrate on telling the story.
3. There is nothing childish about the SW comics Ive seen. I read Empire and Republic, and theyre gritty. Empire has given me a lot more information on the Rebellion era, and has had a lot of stories of people being killed, all written in a way where you actually care. That isnt childish.
As for Republic, Id say its the best comic run ever. Whilst some of the earlier stories were only average, the Quinlan Vos storyling is my favourite of any EU. Better than the NJO, better than Thrawn. Quin, Aayla and Tholme are some of the best EU characters around, much more interesting than the types that turn up in a lot of novels. The QUin stories have been gritty, disturbing and powerful, everything EU should be. I care much more about what happens to Quin than I do in Ep3. Hes the premier CW character right now, and Aayla was the first (and until Ep3 only) EU character to make it into the real films.
To me, none of this is conclusive to being childish.

SO basically, go read some CW comics. They are in a quality level all of there own.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

Originally posted by Durnar+Sep 25 2004, 05:36 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Durnar @ Sep 25 2004, 05:36 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Soontir Solo@Sep 15 2004, 06:30 PM
Durnar: Can a comic honestly offer the same size of a story, or the same amount of detail? I have read a few Star Wars comics and find them to be childish and lacking of what I look for in a story. Call it ignorant if you wish but I think thinking a comic and can be as detailed as a Star Wars novel is ignorant.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

Ok, your ignorant. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
Comics can and have offered better size and quality of stories than novels. Cos frankly, youre missing the point of the whole medium:
1. You cannot compare 1 issue of a comic to one novel. Comics are serialized, so when you actually get all the isssues of one story, its a much bigger story than your probably looking at.
2. Comics do offer the same amount of detail, but visually rather than in text. Instead of saying 'the character scowled' you see the character scowling. Thats where a lot of a novel goes: describing detials of charactes, places etc. Instead, theyre given to you visually, which lets writers concentrate on telling the story.
3. There is nothing childish about the SW comics Ive seen. I read Empire and Republic, and theyre gritty. Empire has given me a lot more information on the Rebellion era, and has had a lot of stories of people being killed, all written in a way where you actually care. That isnt childish.
As for Republic, Id say its the best comic run ever. Whilst some of the earlier stories were only average, the Quinlan Vos storyling is my favourite of any EU. Better than the NJO, better than Thrawn. Quin, Aayla and Tholme are some of the best EU characters around, much more interesting than the types that turn up in a lot of novels. The QUin stories have been gritty, disturbing and powerful, everything EU should be. I care much more about what happens to Quin than I do in Ep3. Hes the premier CW character right now, and Aayla was the first (and until Ep3 only) EU character to make it into the real films.
To me, none of this is conclusive to being childish.

SO basically, go read some CW comics. They are in a quality level all of there own.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

<span style="color:blue">Nearly all Star Wars comics are ARCs, which is more than one comic. I've seen very few single stand alones. A lot of the SW comics I've read are better than the novels I've read. I just wonder, which SW comcis have you read? Maybe you read some of the bad ones.</span>

[Obi-Stu]

Originally posted by cj790@Sep 20 2004, 12:16 PM
Can you imagine someone saying "I don't like reading books beacuse I read The Crystal Star and hated it, therefore the medium must be cr*p"! <div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Too true.

Crystal Star was awful.

What book should I read next?

[Lord Ulic]

So far I've read nothing that was horrible. Actually, most things were pretty good.

[Soontir Solo]

I don't remember exact stories that I have read because when I tried out comics, years ago (I'd say 3 or 4 years ago) at the same time I started reading EU like mad I just didn't get into them. And I assure you I read more than one comic. And I have read the Reborn Palpatine comic series, a few years ago. I gave up comics because, for me, they just dont' shape up to novels.

And they don't have the same amount of detail and suspense as a novel Durnar.

So would anybody like to give me a suggestion of a good comic story I should read? And I will tell you right now it should be post-ROTJ stuff because if it takes place in the prequel era I am that much more likely to hate it.

[Kapit]

i know it's probaby not what you want, but pick up the STAR WARS TALES series

there's some great stuff in there!

and check the rogue squadron stuff, i've heard it's good

[Soontir Solo]

The Tales stuff is ok, but it wouldn't prepare you for the great NJO Series.

[Kapit]

no, but it's just fun!

the only thing i can think of right now is "union", tha marriage of luke and mara

[Soontir Solo]

I haven't even read that. Didn't see much of a point. I have read the Hand of Thrawn Duology and Survivor and both of those are all about Luke and Mara basically.

[Kapit]

yeah, it was basically just leading up to and showing the wedding

i think it was actually kinda crappy, now that i think about it

[Whuffa]

Yeah, I never really liked Union either. If you want good post-ROTJ comics Soontir, I highly suggest Mara Jade:By The Emperor's hand , It's by Zahn and Stackpole and it's really good, plus the art is great. Also Chewbacca is excellent, as are most of the X-Wing comics (except Requiem for a Rogue, Masquerade and The Rebel Opposition). Those are the best post-ROTJ ones, IMHO. The Empire comics are pretty good also, but those take place mostly between ANH and ESB. And I know you said no prequel ones, but comics like Twilight, Darkness and the Clone Wars comics are the only prequel EU stuff IMHO that makes you actual like the prequel jedi (well the clone wars novels make them seem likeable also).

[cj790]

Obi Stu - I recommed anything by Haruki Murakami style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Soontir - If I understand you correctly, you read the Dark Empire series, so it's not surprising you didn't like them - parts 2 and 3 were truly diabolical. Try The Phantom Affair, that's probably the best post-ROTJ one. Union was awful. Actually many of the best SW comics are set pre-ANH- try Twilight, anything involving the current Quinlan Vos arc, or the Tales of the Jedi arc: the TOTJ trade paperback, The Freedon Nadd Uprising, Dark Lords of the Sith, The Sith War, and Redemption. They take a while to get into (Dark Lords is where it gets really good), but are worthwhile by the end.

[RougePilot09]

Soontir check out the Crimson Empire Series of comics...they are some of my favorite comics...and im not a big comic book fan.

[Whuffa]

I disagree. I found Crimson Empire awful. The story was weak and shallow. The characters were total clichés, and the art was unimaginative and rigid. I'm so glad they didn't make the third one.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

<span style="color:blue">Soontir, I echo reading Mara Jade, By the Emperor's Hand and Republic. I'd say you would like X-Wing. Written by Stackpole. There's like 41 issues, one of the longest running SW comics I think, and the entire last half is the rise of Isard. Ties into the X-Wing novels, especially Isard's Revenge.</span>

[Soontir Solo]

Sniper: I have read some of those.

the mara jade one sounds like it could have potential. Maybe I will try out that one.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Oct 3 2004, 11:15 PM
Sniper: I have read some of those.

the mara jade one sounds like it could have potential. Maybe I will try out that one.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

<span style="color:blue">Ah. You should like the Mara ones. Best EU I've read about Mara.</span>

[Tresk Im'nel]

I didn't care for Infinities: A New Hope.

*SPOILERS*


I found the Dark Leia subplot very sad, but at least they handled it better than I had feared. What I really had a problem with was Yoda crashing the Death Star into Coruscant... That just didn't fit at all, IMHO.


*SPOILERS*

[Kapit]

AHHH!! spoilers!!

oh well, now i'm intrigued.....

i'd have to say my least favorite book is planet of twilight

i was bored out of my mind!

[Tresk Im'nel]

Sorry, I'll add tags.

I was following TOS spoiler policy, where it only counts as spoiler material if it's fairly recent...

[Kapit]

HAHHA, i was just kiddin!!

it's fine, i was probably not going to get to it soon anyways, so i would forget aboot it....hehe

[Whuffa]

Originally posted by Tresk Im'nel@Oct 4 2004, 12:13 PM
I didn't care for Infinities: A New Hope.

*SPOILERS*


I found the Dark Leia subplot very sad, but at least they handled it better than I had feared. What I really had a problem with was Yoda crashing the Death Star into Coruscant... That just didn't fit at all, IMHO.


*SPOILERS*
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



I totaly agree! The wisest Jedi master killing the entire population of Coruscant. I don't think so.

[bluemilk]

I don't know if I've mentioned this or not but Planet of Twilight was definitly the worst novel I've ever read -- Star Wars or not. The mere idea that this woman created a force sensitive Hutt is to me an insult to the fans. I've always believed that Toydarians and Hutts were non-sensitive to the force so I wonder why she would even attempt something so inane as creating Beldorian.

The book was also boring with Leia spending much of the book in a drugged up stupor and Luke wandering around seemingly dazed and confused. It's not worth reading and if you wanted to know what happens for the sake of continuity then just read a review or read about it in the Star Wars: The Essential Chronology.

[Kapit]

^i completely agree

it was a terrible concept, it was boring, and i'm glad i don't remember much more than what you've put

DON'T READ THIS BOOK

[Tresk Im'nel]

Let me put it this way: I'm not looking forward to reading PoT... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

However, I'm not absolutely sure invulnerability to mind tricks means Hutts and Toydarians are meant to be incapable of being Force-sensitive. Still, it does sound like a pretty bad read from everything I've heard...

My least favourite SW novels so far are The New Rebellion, the Black Fleet Crisis, Rogue Planet and Ruins of Dantooine. None of them are so bad that I'd counsel against reading them, but I wouldn't recommend them, either.

TNR was weak all around, IMHO. The whole business with the Glottalphibs didn't work for me, and Kueller was the weakest example of the Darksider-of-the-Month-Club school of Bantam-era villains, IMO.

The BFC had some good points, especially in the main (Leia's) plot, but I found Akanah rather difficult to get used to, and the whole wild goose chase for Luke's mother a waste of time. And, with my apologies to Bluemilk, I personally found Lando's subplot exceptionally boring, which is too bad because I like Lando's character and wish he got more time in the EU.

Rogue Planet was actually not bad, but I found it so boring I couldn't finish, and wound up picking up something else instead (Aaron Allston's Wraith Squadron X-wing novels, I think...) I do intend to go back and read it through, though, especially given the NJO connections.

Finally, I just found that RoD had far too many "your game mechanics are showing" moments for my taste. There was scene after scene where I could practically see the menu screen or in-game dialogue menu, even without having played SWG...

[bluemilk]

You have a point about the story of Akanah and Luke. I found it tedious and pointless as well. I do remember mentioning in a thread last year sometime that I really enjoyed the Black Fleet Crisis. I felt it really showed the New Republic growing into itself. I also enjoyed the way the author developed the relationship of Luke and Leia.

Leia had a point when she got upset at Luke about drudging up the past again and never letting go. She's looking forward to the future with Han, raising their family and Luke is still in the past and not letting old wounds heal.

And yes..I really enjoyed Lando's story in this book style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Tresk Im'nel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I felt it really showed the New Republic growing into itself. I also enjoyed the way the author developed the relationship of Luke and Leia.

Leia had a point when she got upset at Luke about drudging up the past again and never letting go. She's looking forward to the future with Han, raising their family and Luke is still in the past and not letting old wounds heal.[/b][/quote]

Good point. Those were among the stronger points of the series. I thought Leia's characterisation wasn't too bad, and the author did a good job of having her try to strike a balance when faced with a very difficult situation (I know some fans have criticised her for not stepping in more aggressively, but I can see why she didn't want to risk the internal political crisis that could have triggered, or the potential step towards a neo-Imperial foreign policy).

On the flip side, however, although I think he handled Leia's interaction with Luke fairly well, I think I found his characterisation of Luke a little hard to swallow. Just my opinion, though...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And yes..I really enjoyed Lando's story in this book[/b][/quote]

Each to their own... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Soontir Solo]

Well I just finished A New Rebellion, hadn't read it for a few years, and I don't think it is near as bad as some Star Wars books. It is definitely better than the Hambly books and Crystal Star. I didn't really like how Dolph or Kueller (whatever you prefer to call him) was so powerful though. He was getting up there with the Emperor in that book.

[Lord Ulic]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>However, I'm not absolutely sure invulnerability to mind tricks means Hutts and Toydarians are meant to be incapable of being Force-sensitive. [/b][/quote]

Or they're just not weak-minded.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Rogue Planet was actually not bad, but I found it so boring I couldn't finish, and wound up picking up something else instead (Aaron Allston's Wraith Squadron X-wing novels, I think...) I do intend to go back and read it through, though, especially given the NJO connections.[/b][/quote]
<span style="color:blue">The Tarkin/Seniar chapters were the best parts of the novel.</span>

[Soontir Solo]

Rogue Planet wasn't all that great but it does shed some light on certain things about the NJO.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

<span style="color:blue">X-Wing is penned in an ill suited militaristic fashion for a story set in a space fantasy setting. Along with a gary sue/ripoff hero, repetitive stories, lackluster fights, and poor attempts at humour make this series worth skipping. It's half-brother I, Jedi is equally as worthless.

The Thrawn Trilogy and all Zahn works are as dry as saltines with gary and mary sues flying rampid, and at the same time making the movie characters look inept idiots. Pathetic hard sci-fi novels. I laugh in it's general direction.

The Bria Tharen Trilogy. Bloviating over Bria's greatness along with boring prose. Couldn't even finish the first novel.

The Courtship of Princess Leia. Characterizations are poor. Couldn't finish.

The Corellian Trilogy. Children's novels advertised as adult reads. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl.gif

Yoda: Dark Rendezvous. Novel that hardly deals with what is advertised with ripoffs and horrid characterizations running around at 200 MPH.

There's a quick no read list.</span>

[DarthSolo]

dont listen to him. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Whuffa]

I'd say read all of those (except maybe the Corellian trilogy) and AVOID The Approaching Storm, !!!Jedi Trial!!!!, The Crystal Star and The Bounty Hunter Wars.

[DarthSolo]

yeah, the bounty hunter war trilogy didnt really float my boat too much.

[James T. Skywalker]

Anything by Barbara Hambley, Roger MacBride Allen, K.W. Jeter, and Vonda McIntyre, avoid with extreme prejudice!

(Though, I've been told that McIntyre's non-Star Wars work is ok, as is Hambley's... but definitely avoid the SW stuff.)

EDIT: And with the exception of the Corellian Trilogy, don't listen to anything Ripley says.

~JTS

[Sam Kenobi]

I agree with the general sentiment of good bokos and bad books. But y' know what? I'll read them anyway.

[Kapit]

seeing as how they're SW books, i'll read them anyways, and if they're that bad, i'll just stop

[Ripley the Warmaster]

Originally posted by DarthSolo@Feb 1 2005, 01:50 AM
dont listen to him. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

<span style="color:blue">Why? Because I have good taste in novels? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happydance.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif</span>

[Soontir Solo]

No because you have bad taste in novels.

[DarthSolo]

i was kidding, but rip is known to have a rather radical taste on novels (not good or bad), and unless you share that taste, you might want to stick with the majority.

[James T. Skywalker]

Originally posted by Ripley the Warmaster+Feb 2 2005, 10:18 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ripley the Warmaster @ Feb 2 2005, 10:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DarthSolo@Feb 1 2005, 01:50 AM
dont listen to him. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

<span style="color:blue">Why? Because I have good taste in novels? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happydance.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif</span>
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

What are your tastes in novels, exactly? Because the books you've mentioned, with the exception of the Corellian Trilogy (which I agree was not the class of the EU), are pretty darn mainstream for Star Wars.

~JTS

[Master Magnus]

The only EU that I really don't like (and I haven't read all that much, mind you) is Dark Empire.

[Ripley the Warmaster]

Originally posted by Ripley the Warmaster+Feb 2 2005, 11:18 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ripley the Warmaster @ Feb 2 2005, 11:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DarthSolo@Feb 1 2005, 01:50 AM
dont listen to him. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

<span style="color:blue">Why? Because I have good taste in novels? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happydance.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif</span>
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
<span style="color:blue">I was being sarcastic in response to DarthSolo's sarcastic post.

For my novel tastes, they are pretty around the board. Right now I'm reading The Great War: Breakthroughs by Harry Turtledove. I enjoy his alternate history epics, though his prose skills does have a few faults, the main one is he's repititive at times. I've also read a few historical novels. I read about 3/4s of Rise to Rebellion by Jeff Shaara before I had to stop do to school. It was well written from what I read. I'm also going to be starting Black Hawk Down soon for school, and in preperations for seeing Sir Ridley's movie.

Now the point probably a lot of you are wondering about my reading styles- comedy. Some of the comedic novels I've read and enjoyed are I rant therfore I am and The Rant Zone by Dennis Miller. Good politcal jokes that require the reader to be well aware of politcal events for the comedy to be effective. How to protect yourself from Alien Aubductions is funny as hell, but I think because of the nature of the novel. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas does have some funny parts in the novel when it is a bit more serious than what I've listed. Carlin's Silly Putty and Naplam(or is it the other way around) is great as well.

In the science fiction realm, there is of course the Dune Chronicles. Those six novels are by far the best sci-fi novels ever written. God Emperor of Dune was a little hard to get through at times, but was well worth it. THe other big sci-fi series that I own are Robert Doherty's Area 51 series. It's about nine novels I believe. It's a lot like The X-Files, especially the first novel. I urge all X-Files fans to take a look at these novels.

Fantasy has a very troubled past with me. My fifth grade teacher read my class the first Harry Potter novel. That is still by far the biggest piece of trash I've had read to me. With the exception of The Lord of the Rings novels, I did not touch a fantasy novel for four years. Last spring, I read Heroes Die by Stover. It was a nice breath of fresh air. I read some of Stackpole's fantasy novels. Talion: Revenant was very good, and The DragonCrown War cycle was comedable. The novels were vastly superior to Stackpole's attempts to write a good Star Wars novel.

Since I mention Star Wars, I've read some of Carrie Fisher's novels. Postcards from the Edge was so-so and Surrender the Pink was very good. I can't wait to read her two other novels. Very funny, in my opinion.

I must mention one last genre I'm starting to read, novels about movies. The reason for going into this direction is that the best novel I read last year was a little book called Alien Woman: The Making of Lt. Ellen Ripley. Truly great response to the four Alien movies. I should be picking up similar novels in the near future.

There you have it. A condensed version of Ripley the Warmaster's reading tastes.</span>

[Soontir Solo]

Well Jeff Shaara is a really good author. I have read all his books except for his new World War 1 book.

[Ithorian guy]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif I HATE THE CRYSTAL STAR style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif

[James T. Skywalker]

Ripley, I've always wanted to get my hands on Talion: Revnant, as I've heard it's quite good.

I'm also looking into checking out Kevin J. Anderson's Saga of Seven Suns series, which is supposed to be very good.

~JTS

[Soontir Solo]

The onl sci-fi books I really like are Star Wars, and that is pretty much it for Sci-fi.

[Master Shrive]

In response to the topic, I'm yet to find a SW book that I don't like. I haven't read a lot of them however. Also, I'm not a very picky reader. I've never put down a book once I've started reading it, but I've never hated one either.

Thats just my two cents.

[Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)]

Originally posted by Ithorian guy@Feb 4 2005, 12:51 PM
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif I HATE THE CRYSTAL STAR style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


I'm in total agreement with that one.

It and Darksaber are, in my opinion, the two worst SW novels ever written (well, iut of the ones that I've read, and I've read most).

However they are still worth reading for the sake of keeping up with the story...

[Tresk Im'nel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>It and Darksaber are, in my opinion, the two worst SW novels ever written (well, iut of the ones that I've read, and I've read most).[/b][/quote]

I haven't read them yet. Not looking forward to it, either... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif

Not having read those ones, I'd have to say my personal least favourite was The New Rebellion, although even it had a few worthwhile points (let me just try to remember them... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif) The Black Fleet Crisis is also right down there, although it would be alright (just) if that awful Luke subplot and the interminable, boring waste of time they stuck poor old Lando with got cut. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif And the Corellian Trilogy was not too much better, although I did like the two Drall. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

But that's just my humble opinion, apologies to those who liked those books better than I did. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[yodafn]

Originally posted by Ithorian guy@Feb 4 2005, 12:51 PM
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif* style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif* style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif I HATE THE CRYSTAL STAR style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif* style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>




I couldn't agree more! This was by far my least favorite book. Although, I do read them all, because I just can't get enough of the SW Universe, or characters. I can ususally find something redeemable about each book, even if it isn't a personal favorite. This one, however, was just plain awful! I honestly can't think of one good thing to say about it. I wish it had never been written.



Oh, and I don't think you put nearly enough head banging smilies in there.

[Soontir Solo]

The Crystal Star was the worst. It is the only one I couldn't finish. After that come Children of the Jedi and Planet of Twilight. I actually thought Darksaber was ok. I had no problems with it at all. The New Rebellion I think would be next worst after Planet of Twilight. After that I would have to put the MedStar books or Approaching Storm.

[DarthSolo]

i liked Darksaber a little bit, too. I thought Crix Maidine's death was written well, and it was good that they weren't afraid to kill a character!

[Soontir Solo]

Yeah, and I liked Dorsk 81's death in the book.

[DarthSolo]

oh yeah, i forgot about that momentarily.

[Soontir Solo]

I am glad it wasn't Kyp that decided to sacrifice himself in Darksaber. The EU is so much better with Kyp involved. He really was a main character in NJO right alongside the Skywalker's and Solo's. He was probably the most important character in NJO that wasn't a Skywalker or Solo. It would have to be him or Nom Anor.

[DarthSolo]

most important on the GFFA in any case. but, yeah Kyp really keeps the EU alive, because he is a wild card of sorts. i dont like him alot as a guy, but he is a great character to add to story lines

[Soontir Solo]

Yeah, that is how I feel about him. And really he is probably the overall heir of Luke right now. He is the middle man to be the most prominent one between Luke and Jacen I think.

[DarthSolo]

really? i didnt think you would think that. so you think Kyp is Luke's #2 vs. Jacen?

[Soontir Solo]

Jacen is still young. And Kyp has been a Jedi Master for a long time now. Kyp is on the Council. Now I think in one on one combat Jacen would win but overall right now Kyp would probably be the next in line to be the Leader of the Jedi. Now once Jacen gets a bit older and become a Jedi Master all bets are off.

[DarthSolo]

depends on how long luke survives, me thinks!

[Soontir Solo]

Possibly, but nevertheless Kyp would have seniority.

[DarthSolo]

well, if Jacen continues to grow like it looks like he is, and Kyp doesn't have much else to go, i think Jacen would be as good a choice. What if kyp reverts back to VP Kyp? Then Jacen would be a shoe-in.

[Soontir Solo]

I don't think that will happen with Kyp. Remember that what he saw when Jaina was going to the Dark Side caused huge changes in him. He finally understood what it meant to be a Jedi and after that he was just as reliable as anyone else.

I think Jacen should be considered the leader after Luke but I have a feeling Kyp really will be, though for how long I don't know.

[DarthSolo]

yeah, i dont think Kyp will screw around anymore. Jacen is or will be as qualifired as him though. we shall see.

[Soontir Solo]

And we may never really find out either. The EU might not go on that far into the Star Wars future because you can probably honestly say Luke will at least live another 40 years.

[empire21]

the only EU book to avoid The Truce at Bakura, it's a shame to because I prefer stand alone novels

[TuskenRaider1]

Crystal Star, followed by Children and Planet. Id have to go with Kyp. I just dont see Jacen at the point where he would want the responsibility. He wants to go off at the end of GFFA and learn about others. Of course, Jaina has s