Expanded Universe [Archive] - The Galactic Senate

X-3PO

11-19-2002, 12:58 PM

Oh I am so fed up with people who throw aside information found in the visual dictionaries and other sources just as they would information in the novels and such. I think that anything in these dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc. (Up to the latest editions) should be valid for making arguments, and supporting theories. They don't just MAKE up these FACTS in these books they are brought from GL ideas and back story. For all you people who don't beleive in this type of information I don't want to see any of you write the name Mon Mothma on the threads, I never heard that in the movie! I don't want to see any of you talk about Ki-Adi Mundi, Plo Koon or Yarael Poof, as far as I'm concerned their names are Long Head, Freaky Mask, and Wobbly Neck. The Cantina was never called the Cantina, I think it was a Tatooine TGIFridays!
In my opinion these Star Wars informational sources are not EU and should be as canon as the movies which they come from, now of course there are EU things in some of these books but that information is for those who follow the novels, which is another topic entirely. What I would like to see is some acceptence of these types of books, after all they aren't just publishing them for their health and Lucasfilm makes a conscious effort to not contradict the information in them.
Your Thoughts?

Jedi D'oh

11-19-2002, 01:16 PM

Here! Here!

I am a fan of all things SW, EU included. I have most if not all these books and love the info given because it all fits in with the movies and books.

I completely agree with your above statement.

Blizzard

11-19-2002, 01:22 PM

I agree. And LOL!

Luvinna.

11-19-2002, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by X-3PO@Nov 19 2002, 09:58 AM
For all you people who don't beleive in this type of information I don't want to see any of you write the name Mon Mothma on the threads, I never heard that in the movie! I don't want to see any of you talk about Ki-Adi Mundi, Plo Koon or Yarael Poof, as far as I'm concerned their names are Long Head, Freaky Mask, and Wobbly Neck.
Ever read the credits? (and the name I would have chosen for Ki-Adi was Conehead.) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Originally posted by X-3PO@Nov 19 2002, 09:58 AM
The Cantina was never called the Cantina, I think it was a Tatooine TGIFridays!
I think people call it the Cantina because the track on the soundtrack is entitled Cantina Band.

Though I do have to agree that the info given in those technical journals and reference guides is very enlightening. If anything, they tend to tie the EU to the movies in those books. Hmmm... maybe that's why some people don't like them. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

X-3PO

11-19-2002, 01:33 PM

Beleive it or not there are some people out there that refuse to acknowledge even the credits! Sad but true. They feel, if it isn't in the movie it can't be trusted and I think that is silly.

Jedi D'oh

11-19-2002, 01:42 PM

I agree. In my mind, everything is usuable from the EU, but some of the purists don't like it, so I don't try to use it as a stepping stone here. Unless of course, that's what the tpoic is about.

Swamprat_Jedi_Knight

11-19-2002, 06:22 PM

Long live the EU, deleted scenes, dictionaries, encyclopedias, (credits ???), and the rest !!! Its all good. I'm just sorry people throw it all away because Lucas didn't write every word of it. They are missing out big time.

Rogue_0009

11-19-2002, 06:32 PM

How could you not count the credits they're part of the movie!!

Anyway...I agree whole-heartedly with the above statements.

Lord Laviathan

11-25-2002, 03:33 PM

I agree too, Timothy Zahn is far better of a story writer than GL could ever imagine to be. and i consider those to be episodes 7,8, and 9. And who came up with the capital worlds name of Coruscant..........Zahn. But hes not the only one their are many other Authors that do a good job of writing on SW based material. All should accept the EU and soon they shall.

Jedi D'oh

11-25-2002, 03:46 PM

Actually, Dark Horse comics came out with the Dark Empire series first. That is the first place the name Coruscant was used.

James T. Skywalker

11-25-2002, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Jedi D'oh@Nov 25 2002, 11:46 AM
Actually, Dark Horse comics came out with the Dark Empire series first. That is the first place the name Coruscant was used.
No, Heir to the Empire was first published in 1991. The Dark Empire saga didn't begin until 1994.

~JTS

X-3PO

11-25-2002, 05:30 PM

I enjoy the extended universe a great deal and one of my most recent favorites, though I know many will disagree with me, has been Cloak of Deception. I really liked the way the author (whose name escapes me at the moment) wrote Palpatine. That is a tough thing to do. I am one who beleives Palpy and Sidious are the same person, and it was tricky to write subtle hints to that. Correct me if I am wrong but I beleive Palpatine used a mind trick on Havok (is that his name? Leader of the Nebula Front) when he is talking to Palpatine. It is very cleaverly written, if I had the book here with me I would quote it, but it was something like he disagreed with something Palpatine said, then palpy moves his hand on the table slightly and says it again and Havok suddenly better understands palpatines point. I just really liked the writting in that book.

Rogue_0009

11-25-2002, 06:28 PM

The author's name was James Luceno.

And you're right about the mind trick thing, which is what I pretty sure he did to Jar Jar to convince him to call the motion to give Palps emrgency powers.

MegoHulk

11-25-2002, 06:35 PM

Someone watch the movie again and see if Palps ever makes a hand movement while talking to JAr Jar or anyone else... :0

X-3PO

11-25-2002, 08:32 PM

I know Mas Ameeda moves his hands when he says "If only Senator Amidala were here." Not that, that matters. http://65.68.63.156/mysmilies/cwm/3dlil/smirk.gif

bullumhead

11-26-2002, 03:45 AM

The Dark Empire saga didn't begin until 1994
Dark Empire was released in December of 91. Dark Empire 2 was released in 94. Heir To The Empire was still first, though, released in June 91.

Though there have been a few EU comics that I have enjoyed, I say they should be viewed as entertainment only, and not as cannon. Taking names from them is one thing, since when GL or ILM creates a character, they usually give him or her a name. That kind of information I'm sure is available to writers of the EU.

When it comes to stories, though, I think it's best to just view the movies as the real deal. The EU introduces too many different writers and different points of view...plot lines across the timeline get way too conveluted, every writer try's to introduce his own new character who has some incredible galactic significance or is a long forgotten fallen jedi. most of the writers can't even get the characterizations of the key players right.

I'll agree that there are some writers out there who are more talented writers than GL, but it's still his story to tell. He's not about to take the EU continuity into consideration while crafting his tale and there have already been contradictions. i say accept the EU for what it is...good fun (in some cases).

vodo

11-28-2002, 09:58 AM

hurrah

X-3PO

11-28-2002, 12:04 PM

My views however are mainly that reference material should be viewed as canon as well. It appears that the information in these books is generally just pretty basic information that doesn't have so much to do with the story of the movies but the charecters, places, and things from the story.

bullumhead

11-28-2002, 07:38 PM

didn't the official guide to star wars characters say (i don't own it and read it some time ago) that boba fett was a cop and he was accused of killing his partner and that's why he conceals his identity in the armor? this could be wrong, i haven't seen that thing in quite a while, but that's the story i remember reading.

anyway, the reference materials will try to fill in gaps from time to time that will conflict with GL's stories. that's why they should not be viewed as canon. at least, that's my opinion.

X-3PO

11-29-2002, 12:34 AM

The whole Boba Fett thing is now of course changed, and I don't recall that particular information but there has been some pretty wacko things written about Boba Fett. But for the most part things in the reference materials have not changed all that much. A few things here and there about main charecters and such, but once the final movie is out I see no reason why a Star Wars dictionary can not be considered (and I hate this term) Canon.

bullumhead

11-29-2002, 03:42 AM

after all six films are complete you will have a definitive Star Wars dictionary...it will be called Episodes 1-6. Everything you really need to know will all be right there.

what else do you really need to know?

Rogue_0009

11-29-2002, 06:05 PM

everything else.

X-3PO

11-30-2002, 02:18 PM

Exactally my freind! I want the names of all the people in the Podrace arena crowd, I want the blood type of all the Ewoks, I want the instruction manual on lightsaber construction, I want a roster of every Jedi EVER, I want two death stars and a side of bacon, I want senatorial party planks, I want the location of the factory where Artoo was built, and I want everything else I can possibly get my mits on!

RollaFett

11-30-2002, 07:38 PM

THE EU SUCKS AND THAT'S THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RollaFett

11-30-2002, 07:38 PM

Uhhh....just kidding. :whatsthat:

bullumhead

11-30-2002, 08:12 PM

James T. Skywalker

11-30-2002, 09:17 PM

I still suggest that people read the Levels of Officiality in the Star Wars Timeline Gold (linked in the sig). For those people who think that the EU is a valuable resource, but that it's not considered capital "C" Canon (i.e. the movies and their direct adaptions), you'll find that the Levels that LFL have set up will work well for you.

Some stuff just needs to be included, because the movies can't cover every single event in the Star Wars universe.

~JTS

X-3PO

12-01-2002, 12:35 PM

Exactally. You can't tell the whole story in just the movies.

JediKeri.

12-02-2002, 03:59 PM

Or, just Think for yourself, and what you think is valid or what's not. That's what I did, because I don't have all the terrific resourses that James and Nathan do. I seem to have done fairly well anyway.

X-3PO

12-05-2002, 01:26 PM

Your in the EU defense force and your telling people to not pay attention to it. Whoa dude!

spaceman2386

12-06-2002, 10:41 AM

i don't like EU too much reading.

X-3PO

12-11-2002, 11:27 PM

Then it's not that you dislike the EU, you just dislike reading. http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/lynx/magwink.gif

Silver Jedi

12-12-2002, 12:23 AM

X-3PO, I'm pretty sure that Mon Mothma was named in the ROTJ novel.

Anyway, you have to be careful about the non-story guides too. The ICS's are pretty good, but the Essential Guide to Vehicals and Vessels, for example, has alot of mistakes. I also don't think that all of the EU should be tossed out. As much as some of it sucks, there are aloot of well written storys. My bigest problem with it is that alot of it is very inconsistant with the movies, due to authors using things like video games and RPGs as reaserch material. I think if they got someone (like Dr. Saxton) to work as a continuity editor, or technical advisor, the accuracy, and in turn quality, of the EU would go up tremendosly. And as much as Lucas says he doesn't care about the EU, he does. Look at how much the Fetts' roles in galactic history changed from the way we knew it after the OT to the way it is now.

Basicly, I feel about the EU the way i feel about the prequals: yes, I'd often (but not always) like to forget it exsists, but it is indisputably a part of the universe of starwars and there is not much I can do about that.

X-3PO

12-12-2002, 01:03 AM

X-3PO, I'm pretty sure that Mon Mothma was named in the ROTJ novel.

Yes that may be true but people tend to argue that things in the books can be changed, and therefore are not to be looked at as clues to future movies. There was a thread recently that stated a theory that Mon Mothma was Padme! (And please don't rekindle that flame here).

I do agree with most of everything else you said Silver Jedi, except the bit about the essential guide to vehicles being incorrect. It's been awhile since I looked over it, what exactally is incorrect?

conron_montyn23

12-13-2002, 01:22 PM

QUOTE
Exactally my freind! I want the names of all the people in the Podrace arena crowd, I want the blood type of all the Ewoks, I want the instruction manual on lightsaber construction, I want a roster of every Jedi EVER, I want two death stars and a side of bacon, I want senatorial party planks, I want the location of the factory where Artoo was built, and I want everything else I can possibly get my mits on!

okay...that's not being a fan. that's a fetish!

in real life i am straight...

but if starwars is a man, im gay.

Angel Starmaster

12-14-2002, 03:50 AM

Okay........Not gonna comment on that last post.

My stand on the subject is this; I read the NJO. I've read the comics, I've seen the essential guides and I've played the RPG's (Yes, both versions.) I own Jedi Knight 2 for my PC and I come here to talk about Star Wars.

But wait, my purist friends, I get worse! I listen to music that are covers of other bands' songs! I watch movies that are remakes and spin-off's of other movies. Y'know what? I like the Ewok adventure and The Battle for Endor.
Jar Jar Binks? He and go out and do shots down at the Cantina on Friday nights. Oops! Did I just say Cantina? Did I say it was the Cantina in the Film? No. Maybe the bar down the street from my house is called the Cantina because the owner is a star wars fan too!

Anyhow, if you can't accept EU how can you accept sequels, prequels, or spin-off's? How can you accept that plot twist that threw you off the trail in the "let's guess who Palpy is" game.
How can you come to this fan site and tell other people who CAN accept these things, simply by employing use of their imaginations, that they're wrong? Did YOU write the movies? Are YOU Big George?

Cuz until he comes on here and tells me what's Kosher and what's not in HIS story, I'm gonna read, play-with, sleep-on, study, build, dismatle, eat, throw, transport, genarate, (insert your adjective here) any damn thing they slap a star wars label and a picture of Natalie Portman or Harrison Ford on! Do I even CARE if it's EU? NO!

That's where I stand.

Oh yeah...Hi everyone. I'm back! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

X-3PO

12-14-2002, 01:30 PM

Excellant words my friend. "Cannon" or EU it is all Star Wars and I love it man!

conron_montyn23

12-14-2002, 01:34 PM

Meee Tooo style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

X-3PO

12-14-2002, 05:13 PM

Is Obi-Wan in some sort of Leapord print strip club? http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/corky/smilies1.gif

conron_montyn23

12-14-2002, 05:37 PM

bahhahahaha!

that was mean! Obi-nobi is my favourite Jedi!

lostjedi

12-14-2002, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by bullumhead@Nov 26 2002, 02:45 AM
When it comes to stories, though, I think it's best to just view the movies as the real deal. The EU introduces too many different writers and different points of view...plot lines across the timeline get way too conveluted, every writer try's to introduce his own new character who has some incredible galactic significance or is a long forgotten fallen jedi. most of the writers can't even get the characterizations of the key players right.
when GL decided that there were going to be books he decided that all books would go along with each other. So if there are any post SW movies(WE CAN ONLY HOPE)
they will have to answer to the BOOKS already written.
And i doubt that the almighty GL would ever let anything happen in his EU that he did not approve.

Silver Jedi

12-15-2002, 12:32 PM

I do agree with most of everything else you said Silver Jedi, except the bit about the essential guide to vehicles being incorrect. It's been awhile since I looked over it, what exactally is incorrect?
I admit, they get most of the major facts right, but it is the minor details that are often overlooked in their research. I'm sure you, as a protocolist, understand the importance of things like that. Off hand, I think they say X-wings have ejection systems, yet Heir to the Empire and Shadows of the empire both make it clear that X-wing pilots can't eject. I'm pretty sure they say the resonance torpedos of the sun cruser are phisical torpedos, while Dark Apprentace makes it clear they are "energy torpedoes". The thing that I hate the most is that they list the globes on the top of Star Distroyers as shield genorators.

conron_montyn23

12-15-2002, 01:33 PM

when GL decided that there were going to be books he decided that all books would go along with each other. So if there are any post SW movies(WE CAN ONLY HOPE)
they will have to answer to the BOOKS already written.
And i doubt that the almighty GL would ever let anything happen in his EU that he did not approve.

Definatly.

Luvinna.

12-16-2002, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Silver Jedi@Dec 15 2002, 09:32 AM
I think they say X-wings have ejection systems, yet Heir to the Empire and Shadows of the empire both make it clear that X-wing pilots can't eject.
But in Specter of the Past it's mentioned that X-wings do have ejection systems. So... maybe they didn't, and now they do. There's 10 years between those books. Plenty of time to make an upgrade like that. But then, there's a line in ANH, where Biggs tells Porkins to eject. So... maybe they did, then didn't, then did. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif Okay, someone goofed.

X-3PO

12-17-2002, 03:11 PM

The thing that I hate the most is that they list the globes on the top of Star Distroyers as shield genorators.

But those are Sheild Generators. If you remember in ROTJ a couple of A-Wings blow up one of the globes and it immediatly cuts to an Imperial officer saying, "Admiral, we've lost our bridge deflector sheild." And, as Luvinna points out there must have been ejector seats at some point in X-Wings or else Biggs didn't know much about X-Wings. But I understand what you mean Silver Jedi there are a few things that fall through the cracks on reference materials, but I think for the most part they are accurate and should be viable argument fodder.

Silver Jedi

12-17-2002, 10:32 PM

Silver Jedi

12-17-2002, 10:35 PM

If you remember in ROTJ a couple of A-Wings blow up one of the globes and it immediatly cuts to an Imperial officer saying, "Admiral, we've lost our bridge deflector sheild."
If that was the cause of the shield loss, then the shields must have been up until the globes were distroyed, right? So how did the A-wing's blow up the shields in the first place. What if the A-wings blowing up the globes was ment to be an effect of the shields going down, rather thaqn the cause. What if it was to illistrate the vunerability of the tower? Also, only one globe was distroyed, but the shields were lost over the whole bridge. Furthermore, why are star distroyers the only sips with sheld genorators rased up promanintly above the rest of the ship? Whay does every other ship class in the SW universe have internal shield genorators, but not Star distroyers?

It is probably worth noting that the Star Wars:ICS lists the globes as sensor domes, and they seem to be modeled after radar domes on modern navel warships.

But I understand what you mean Silver Jedi there are a few things that fall through the cracks on reference materials, but I think for the most part they are accurate and should be viable argument fodder
I agree. I'm just trying to remind people that, while they should not neccisarily be thrown out alltogether, they should be taken with a grain of salt.

X-3PO

12-18-2002, 12:43 AM

Well all I know is that every source I've looked into states that the domes on the top of Star Destroyers are sheild generators. The rounded bubble on the bottom on several occasions has also been called a sheild generator. There are several reasons why the A-Wings were able to destroy the generators. First they could have been so close to the generators that they were actually below the shields, and two they could have been using torpedos that were able to penetrate the shields. If you remember the exhoust port on the Death Star was "Ray shielded" but proton torps were able to get past and blow up the Death Stars main reactor. So I think that should satisfy your query.

Angel Starmaster

12-18-2002, 03:44 AM

Okay I sit down to play the games or watch the movies. I see a star fighter pumping rounds into a large bulbous dome on top of a star destroyer, and you know what I think??
I think, "BLOW IT UP! BLOW IT UP!"
I'm not thinking, "Gee, I wonder what model of tie fighter that is whizzing by in a ball of superheated gasses." or "Gosh, that constellation sure is kooky, I wonder what a Gungan would call it."

See, I know there are people out there who ponder these subject though. And while I'm spilling my popcorn in a frenzy of jedi bloodlust, these folks think the deeper thoughts.
You want to use all those little facts that you found in an EU book in an arguement? That's fine, but watch out. The person you're speaking with may not have read the same book. Or may not agree with it.

I see SW like a cracker; everyone has their own favorite toppings, and some people just like 'em plain.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/satisfied.gif

Luvinna.

12-18-2002, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Angel Starmaster@Dec 18 2002, 12:44 AM
I see SW like a cracker; everyone has their own favorite toppings, and some people just like 'em plain.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/satisfied.gif
Bravo!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

conron_montyn23

12-18-2002, 12:47 PM

???.... WHATEVER!

i say SW is the best thing that ever happened, and EU makes EVEN BETTER!

although my love for SW is great, i love my God more.

And i have a life...

Let's make this clear, SW is NOT my life.

I plan to enlist in the Israeli army, im 14 now, and ive had all A's in school.

The only problem is... only older and younger girls like me... girls my age hate me.... whyyyyy!?
im 14 and 11, 12, 15, and 16 year olds like me... strange they are.

Angel Starmaster

12-21-2002, 08:06 PM

Um, well for starters you could stop posting HUGE FRICKIN' PICS There's a Thread for those and it ain't here.

As for chicks....dude, age is but a number. It's not about getting someone as old as you are. I'm 23 right now. My last girlfriend was 28!
It not about the numbers it's about the chemistry between the two of you.

Good grief, what was this thread about when we got started?!

lostjedi

12-22-2002, 12:36 AM

so far i have liked every book i've read. Not because it was the best writing ever and i couldn't put it down, but that every book has put a little more color on the would of sw. I learn a little more of the characters that i come to love. but to read these messages about the the parts of the ship or the fact that x-wings have or don't have ejection seats is so bizar. my opinion is "IT DOESN"T MATTER"

lostjedi

12-22-2002, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by lostjedi@Dec 21 2002, 11:36 PM
"IT DOESN"T MATTER"
bravo!!!

X-3PO

12-22-2002, 02:03 AM

the fact that x-wings have or don't have ejection seats is so bizar. my opinion is "IT DOESN"T MATTER"

If you don't like the topic my friend you don't have to post here. Someone asked what the domes were on the top of Star Destroyers and there was some contradiction, in different books supposedly, and that brought up something about ejection seats in X-Wings. You say you enjoy reading the books and I do too. You say they shed some light on the SW universe and give it color and I agree. They also give details on technical aspects of the fictional machines and workings of the SW gear, and that is what we were discussing.

QUOTE (lostjedi @ Dec 21 2002, 11:36 PM)
"IT DOESN"T MATTER"

bravo!!!

It's a bit egotistical to be praising yourself don't you think?