Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines

[Darth Vegas]

In just a few weeks a new trailer for Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, is premiering with "The Two Towers".

[Javen]

I can't wait to see it, I just hope it will be good.

[Darth Whaler]

I second that Javen. I'm a big Terminator fan but I'm worried that the story will be ruined. No Linda Hamilton, James Cameron no longer directing, an aging Arnold, etc.

How do they plan to continue the story anyway?...Is it going to be based on Arnie's arm that got caught in that machine and was never destroyed?

[RollaFett]

I've heard very little about this flick. Who is directing, anyway?

[Javen]

Synopsis: Nearly a decade after Skynet sent back the T-1000, John Connor faces a female Terminator, the T-X, with power over all machines. But John has another protector: a new T-800 unit Terminator is sent back through time to help guide John through the coming battle.

If you want to read more about it go hereTerminator 3 Story (http://www.killermovies.com/t/terminator3/)

[Darth Vegas]

Those of you worried about Arnold being old, should know that he is actually in his prime, hence the recent placing in the Guiness World Records as the worlds most healthy man.

Also, he will not look old in the movie, they are using new technology to make him look the same as he did in T2.

A few things I'm really looking forward to in this film, is seeing Kyle Reese and the first T-800 that was programmed to protect John, sent back through time, James Cameron confirmed on the T2 dvd that we will get to see that.

We also get to see the new T-800 built.

[Lonesabre]

Kyle Reese? But I thought Michael Biehns not going to be in it? Also I think we will get to see some other earlier Terminators before the T-800.

[RollaFett]

Not that I was a big Edward Furlong fan or anything, but why wouldn't he be cast as John Connor? It is supposed to be 10 years after what took place in T2, right? So, the age would be right. Was he simply uninterested in the part (wise move, considering how stellar a career he's had), or did the studio not want him?

[Handothrawn]

Edward Furlong has been in the news recently for drug problems, and they didn't want that relation coming up later on.

[RollaFett]

Ahhh, that makes sense.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@Nov 20 2002, 02:28 PM
Kyle Reese? But I thought Michael Biehns not going to be in it? Also I think we will get to see some other earlier Terminators before the T-800.
Michael Biehn is only going to be shown being sent through time, showing us exactly how the time travel works, and that Skynet had been defeated and therefore had to send two Terminators throug time to kill John Conner, we will see Skynet defeated, and then John, Kyle, and other's breaking into Skynet and using the time machine.

This was actually supposed to be in T2, and when it was cut from the script, James Cameron decided it would be in the third film.


Lonesabre, if you look closely in the future war sequencein T2, you can see several Terminator exoskelotons, which are similar to the T-800, but are actually T-600's.

We're supposed to see a huge future war sequene in this film, which includes the fall of Skynet, so we'll most defineately see Terminators of every shape and size.

[Brian]

There's a Terminatrix in this one!
She's <font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=red)'>hot</font>!
I saw the commercial for it today. I am looking forward to seeing the trailer at LOTR: TTT screening.

[non compos mentis]

I just saw the trailer and it looks awful. I'm not a big Cameron or Arnie fan but I liked the first two. But the trailer for this one makes it look like crap.

[Darth Vegas]

Uh no it doesn't. The trailer didn't give anything away about story/plot or the quality of the acting.

It might not be better than T2, but it'll defineately be better than the first.

The bits of the futue war and the TX look great, I believe it just might have some of the best CG effects that ILM has ever done.

[Lord Laviathan]

Yeah, I love the terminators so im pshched about this movie. I liked the Trailor because it does what a trailor should do give you a glimpse of what your going to see but gives away nothing, and I too think the effects will be pretty amazing they couldnt do much in 91.

[QuigonWindu]

When's it coing out I can't wait to see it.

[Lord Laviathan]

its coming out July 2 2003,so this summer.

[QuigonWindu]

What? Damn I thought it was gonna be out in like February.

[Javen]

When I went to see Two Towers, I seen the T3 trailer and it looked really good.

[bodhisattva yoda]

it looks pretty cheesy to me.

don't get me wrong. i'm definitely going to see it, but with very low expetactions.

[bodhisattva yoda]

i must be dyslexic or something. ex-pec-ta-tions.

[Javen]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@Dec 21 2002, 12:19 PM
it looks pretty cheesy to me.

don't get me wrong. i'm definitely going to see it, but with very low expetactions.
The only thing I thought was cheesey was when Arnold said"she'll be back"

[Justin]

Did I blink and miss it or something?? I saw The Two Towers last night, and there was no T3 trailer.

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah they cut it off after opening night, same with the X-men 2 trailer. No problem, they can both be downloaded.

Try Terminator3.com (http://www.terminator3.com) for the T3 trailer.

[Whisper]

They didn't cut it off after Opening night. I saw it on Thursday and friday and both times I saw both trailers.

[Darth Vegas]

Well they cut it off here Thursday.

[Siamese Sith]

Hey don't they have to send terminator's back NAKED????!!!
The trailer was cool except for when Arnie said "she'll be back" the entire audience groaned! And I believe it's being produced and directed by two guys from the now defunct Carolca (total recall).
What was that thing on the end of her arm?? It looked like some sorta Mega Man thingie....

[Darth Vegas]

The entire audience groaned? ???

Maybe where you're from, not here, they all liked that, that line has to fit in the film somewhere, it just as sacred to Terminator as "I have a bad feeling about this." is to Star Wars.

BTW, yeah, Arnie said he was going to be naked again, so be prepared to shield those eyes.

[Siamese Sith]

It wasn't Arnie I was thinking about......T-X YEAH BABY!
"I want your clothes your boots and your motorcycle"
Chicks on rice-racers are HOT!

[Darth Vegas]

Oh well, yeah somethiong for the men and the ladies........

T-X we salute to you, shaaaaa------wing!!!!!!!!!

[Siamese Sith]

God how funny would it be if it was unearthed after T3 that the woman playing the T-X was in porn! T-XXX style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Darth Vegas]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Mann]

LOL that's great!

Oh, i groaned when arnold said that line. God, I hope it's not a bad movie. I saw them filming it one day in L.A. and someone got shot against a car. I saw Arnold too! the guy is short/

[Justin]

I went to see The Two Towers again yesterday, and it had a different set of trailers this time, including T3.

I don't think it was a very good trailer, but that doesn't mean it will be a bad movie. I'm just wary because I didn't see James Cameron's name anywhere in it. I hope it's not going to be like the Batman franchise, where when they get a new director it all goes to ****.

And it doesn't have Linda Hamilton either, which is pretty messed up. Sarah Connor is at the heart of the Terminator films, I don't see how they can have a movie without her.

It doesn't look like it will mesh very well with the last two movies, but I'll keep my mind open.

And hey, where was the "duh-duh-duh duh-dunt" music??

[Padme]

I can't wait to see T3. I can't count how many times I have ssen the first 2.

[Darth Vegas]

Justin, James Cameron has little involvement with T3, I believe he wrote the story, but someone else scripted it, and a new director took the helm. But Arnold has said a quite a few times not to worry, it's going to be at least as good as the last.

The music you referred to was played at the very end of the trailer. Little known fact, is that the metal sound is only a frying pan!

[Mann]

Actually, I'm glad Linda Hamilton left. She didn't do much except run in the those movies.

who agrees with me that Arnold was robbed of an Oscar nomination for the Original Terminator. that is his best performance, and he's better as a villan.

[Darth Vegas]

I loathe the first Terminator, good back in the day, but nothing compared to T2, and Linda Hamilton should have been in T3, it's a shame she isn't, especially since she is now Mrs. James Cameron!

[Siamese Sith]

I thought they became a statistic? Linda and James...
I watched T2 a few months ago and the once heralded special effects belong in special ed compared to todays standards! But I still enjoy the flick.."I know now why you cry, but it is something I can never do" I loved that scene! I remember hearing people in the theater all choked up, and others were wimpering no...no don't do it...awwww poor killing machine :tears:

[Darth Vegas]

I think what it was about that scene, is the whole movie we hear how mankind essentially is deystroying itself, and in the end a machine, that is a machine programmed to kill, learned the value of human life, when alot of humans have a hard time grasping that concept.

[Justin]

I think the effects in T2 are still pretty awesome.

[Streen]

I'll see T3, but I'm really disappointed that neither Linda Hamilton or Edward Furlong will be in it. Or Micheal Bien for that matter. It really takes away from the cohesion of the film.

Not to mention Cameron had nothing to do with it. That's like having Lucas not doing Star Wars. :mad:

-Streen

[Lord Laviathan]

As long as Arnold is in it, thats all that matters. I mean Hamilton shes not gonna have a role in this movie shes going to be dead, and Cameron wish he would have stayed but in the end its of no consequence. This movie is long anticipated and I forsee it to stay true to its self and be a success.

[Justin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>That's like having Lucas not doing Star Wars.
[/b][/quote]

I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing.

[Lord Laviathan]

hahahaha Justin may be on to something here.

[Darth Vegas]

Justin, too true my friend.

James Cameron IMO is among the greatest directors there has ever been (The Abyss, Aliens, T2). However, I do not believe his absense will make much of a difference in this case, the story is still his.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Streen@Dec 24 2002, 07:14 PM
I'll see T3, but I'm really disappointed that neither Linda Hamilton or Edward Furlong will be in it. Or Micheal Bien for that matter. It really takes away from the cohesion of the film.


Streen, James Cameron said that Micheal Beihn will be in it. We get see John send him back to 1984. Linda Hamilton is also going to appear, only brief though, like in a flash back, or in pictures. It could be her funeral that is the reason for the Funeral Home sequence.

[Siamese Sith]

I read on cinescape.com that Hamilton read the original script for T3 and said it has no humanity in it. I guess that means the kill meter will reach a new high.
I'm kinda hoping it doesn't suck. What do you think the chances are Ahnold will make a Total Recall 2?

[Darth Darthy]

This film will be very poor indeed.

Please keep this thread and mark my words. Erm, that's all I have to say.

[Javen]

It will probably be a Collateral Damage Movie, a lot of action a nd not a good story.

[Siamese Sith]

Indeed.....?

[Darth Darthy]

As I said - just wait and see.

Trust the Darthy...Cause Goddammit this film is completely pointless!!!

Oh, and a certain Austrian body builder is desperate for a career booster. And this ain't gonna be it.

Just you wait, my young apprentices'....

[Siamese Sith]

AWWWW C'MON Collateral Damage & the 6th Day! Oh wait I didn't see those....hmmmmmmm wonder why?

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Javen@Jan 2 2003, 04:12 PM
It will probably be a Collateral Damage Movie, a lot of action a nd not a good story.
Sorta like the first Terminator!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Darthy, Javen, were talking about an action flick here, not many of them have a story.

Siamese Sith, I really enjoyed The Sixth Day, I don't know why nobod saw it, it was a very good film for Arnold. Better than End of Days that's for sure.

[Mann]

I saw The Sixth Day. Not a great movie with alot of Plot holes, but certainly a good stint for Arnold. He was really good in this movie.

But the original terminator was Arnold's best role. I loved him as a villain. He gave me nightmares.

[Darth Vegas]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Not a great movie with alot of Plot holes, but certainly a good stint for Arnold. He was really good in this movie.[/b][/quote]

I don't recall any plot holes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>But the original terminator was Arnold's best role. I loved him as a villain. He gave me nightmares.[/b][/quote]

I prefer him in T2 myself, and True Lies, you ask me, that's Arnolds best role, that and Total Recall. If T3 sucks, which I doubt it will, there is still hope in True Lies 2.

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Jan 3 2003, 05:23 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Not a great movie with alot of Plot holes, but certainly a good stint for Arnold. He was really good in this movie.

I don't recall any plot holes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>But the original terminator was Arnold's best role. I loved him as a villain. He gave me nightmares.[/b][/quote]

I prefer him in T2 myself, and True Lies, you ask me, that's Arnolds best role, that and Total Recall. If T3 sucks, which I doubt it will, there is still hope in True Lies 2.[/b][/quote]
True Lies 2= False Truths style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
I liked End of Days even bought the DVD......
I think Ahnold needs to revisit the realm of Conan! Just 1 more and we have a trilogy! I think TripleH should play Conans rival.....

[kopernikuz]

A few things I feel:

Why no Eddie Furlong? Because he's a dope addict "allegedly" and he's the "worst actor ever" (my opinion)... he was the worst thing about T2...

"She'll be back" - Blasphemy... you don't mess with a classic line... people groaned because they ruined it that way... HOWEVER... they can redeem themselves if shortly after he says it, she drives a vehicle through a building... cause we all know "I'll be Back" is just Terminator lingo for "I'm going to drive a vehicle through your building now". I still say they shouldn't have changed it...

If I remember correctly... the Kull: the conqueror movie that came out a few years back with Kevin "Hercules" Sorbo was originally pitched as the new Conan movie, but Ahnold declined to do another one. So they Hit CTRL-F and replaced Conan with Kull in the script and found a new actor. Something about Arnold not feeling as though he physically fit the role anymore... not that he wasn't built... but he's just not ripped like that anymore and he didn't feel up to the semi nude posing.

I would have liked this movie coming out much better if it was the way I originally heard it was pitched... where it all takes place in the future during the wars with the machines. As it is... it's more a rehash of T2... hope it's as good.

[RollaFett]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What do you think the chances are Ahnold will make a Total Recall 2?[/b][/quote]

Oh dear God, NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
That movie is not worth a sequel, period.

[Siamese Sith]

Wow Golla, I think you're the first person I've met that doesn't like that movie!
<marquee>"HEY....HEY QUAID I'M GONNA SQUASH YOU......I'M GONNA GRILL YOU UP SUCKA!"</marquee>
remember=recall
forget=????
ummmmm, what would be the opposite of total recall?

[RollaFett]

It's not that I don't like the movie, it's just terribly overrated in my opinion. When it first came out, I loved it, but it was on TV recently, and I checked it out, because it had been some time since I last saw it. Man, was I dissapointed.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Jan 3 2003, 06:50 PM
I think Ahnold needs to revisit the realm of Conan! Just 1 more and we have a trilogy! I think TripleH should play Conans rival.....
Well geuss what.......he is.

Check out IGN.

Apparantly it's going to be called King Conan, and Vin Deisel is going to play his son.

[Siamese Sith]

No $h!t...I thought triple H would've made a great "son of Conan".

[Lord Laviathan]

Yeah I think he would have too they both have similar builds, long hair hey it works. Vin as his son I guess that could work I need to check out where ever you found this info on King Conan.

[Siamese Sith]

Only problem is Vin Deisel is BALD!

[Lord Rocha]

Why another Terminator ?!

The ending in Judgment Day was fair and very conclusive

[Mann]

this title ruined the prospects for Rise of the Empire.

But, it's a great title.

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Senator Pter Thanas@Feb 22 2003, 08:40 PM
Why another Terminator ?!

The ending in Judgment Day was fair and very conclusive
<span style="color:green"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">$$$</span></span>

[Mann]

I can just see the razzie title:

Terminator 3- Rise of the box office.

[RollaFett]

Recently found out that another version of T2 is coming out on DVD within weeks of the release date for T3. The new version is called the Extreme Edition. I haven't seen any info for it, so I don't know how different it might be from the Ultimate Edition, but I'm not too happy about this. I have yet to buy the Ultimate Edition, and was planning on doing so soon, and now I hear this! UGH!

[Siamese Sith]

Oh c'mon that's rediculous! the ultimate edition was really well done with the menus and all the x-tras. That is just a $$$$ makin gimmick.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Senator Pter Thanas@Feb 22 2003, 05:40 PM
Why another Terminator ?!

The ending in Judgment Day was fair and very conclusive
T3 was already planned when they did T2, if you have the dvd and watched the docs you'd know that, in fact some things that will be in T3 including the very scene where Skynet is defeated because it knew it was going to be defeated and therefore sent not on not two, but three Terminators back through time was going to be in T2 it was in the script.

In T2 the war was never stopped from happening, Judgement Day, which was the Nuclear incident in L.A. was stopped from happening, by the very laws of time travel, if it all had been stopped from happening, then the very events of T2 and T1 would've been erased from history John Conner would never have been born.

BTW, stop fnck!ng complaining about sequels and how it's all about the dollars, if you don't like em' don't pay to see them.

[Siamese Sith]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>BTW, stop fnck!ng complaining about sequels and how it's all about the dollars, if you don't like em' don't pay to see them. [/b][/quote]

I wasn't complaining about the sequels, I was saying it's rediculous to come out with a third DVD version of T2, I own the "ultimate" edition and it has a TON of extra material (guy talking about neural net technology!) What the hell would the "extreme" edition have? Probably some CGI scenes whipped up to tie T2 better w/ T3.

[flagcupomeatball]

I can't wait to see it I loved the first two....I just hope it is good

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Feb 25 2003, 09:00 AM
I wasn't complaining about the sequels, I was saying it's rediculous to come out with a third DVD version of T2, I own the "ultimate" edition and it has a TON of extra material (guy talking about neural net technology!) What the hell would the "extreme" edition have? Probably some CGI scenes whipped up to tie T2 better w/ T3.
Oh not you SS, I was talking about Senator Pter Thanas' comments.


As for the second version of the T2 dvd, the reason would be to include some T3 stuff. Even so it's still a waste, they could just include like a by-mail free disk when you purchase the T2 dvd.

[Siamese Sith]

Bump
This thread will be back........

[Siamese Sith]

Bump
I'll be back
again

[Darth Vegas]

Brand spanking new trailer and tv spot!!! \http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/t/t3.php (http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/t/t3.php)

[Darth Vegas]

BTW, that's the new UK trailer, it's a bit fuzzy, but it's cool, this movie is going to be alot better than I think anyone previously thought.

[Siamese Sith]

Too fuzzy to make much out... ??? MMMmmmmmm TX style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/inlove.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah I know she is HOT, smoking!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

I know it's fuzzy, but it's still new footage, and I think it's gonna be a great movie.

I havn't figured it out completely, but during that new trailer, you can see the TX's skin flickering like the T-1000 did in T2, I think her skin is a layer of liquid metal, she's gotta lot of neat gadgets.

Looks like this film is gonna be pretty action packed!!

[Darth Vegas]

Just in from www.apple.com/trailers (http://http://www.apple.com/trailers/), a much better quality version of the international trailer, click here. (http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony_pictures/t3-international/)

[Siamese Sith]

I have a good pic of the T-X endoskeleton, I'm at work right now , I'll post it when I get home tonight
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif <-----"sarah conner"
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif "yes"
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG!!!!!!!!!
:0 "UGGHhhh

[Mann]

Trailer shows me what i wanted to see...naked TX

[Darth Vegas]

Yup, that's definately the best part!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Mann]

and they show it twice!

[Darth Vegas]

The only bad thing about that, is that they'll even it out for the ladies, hopefully we won't see Arnolds "muscle" again as in the first Terminator... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Mann]

EGAD! NO!

[Siamese Sith]

As promised...

[Darth Vegas]

Ooo, very cool. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Looks sorta alien.

I prefer her with her liquid metal skin on though. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Mann]

Is it liquid Metal skin? We don't know yet huh?

[Darth Vegas]

It's clearly seen in the trailer, you can see her without the skin, and the skin suddenly molds back onto her body in the same fashion as the T-1000.

[Mann]

Yep, you're right. I see it.

[Siamese Sith]

What was the deal with the T-1000? No guns or bombs cause they have moving parts...I thought I saw the TX with a cannon at the end of her arm. Anyone else notice that?

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah, I think that's how she works, she's like the T-1000, only she can make guns, machines, moving parts, just speculation.

[StarWarsFan1]

Ok wait one min, i just rented t2 and i thought buy that one guy blowing everything up that destroyed skynet, and everything to make the all the bots, so how in the world are they all made again, it thought they were destroyed?

[Darth Vegas]

Knowing it was going to be defeated in the past, Skynet sent back, not one, not two, but three Terminators to get the job done.

If they had actually exceeded in defeated Skynet in the past in T2, then the whole history of the Terminators being sent back through time would have been erased, as Skynet would never have exsisted in the first place.

[Darth Vegas]

The way I suppose this works, is because the T-X basically is Skynet, but some scientist had to have been able to pass on Miles Dyson's work, and we do find that out, Arnold has a little fight with this guy, the T 1-8, one of Skynet's modern, man-made machines:

[Darth Vegas]

T1-8

[Siamese Sith]

Kewlio! It looks like a household HK!

[Mann]

Let's face it,

In all technical terms of Time travel and such, Terminator is confusing a basically wrong. However, it is all about things exploding. The story is obviously not to be taken seriously, because frankly it's retarded. I love the movies, they are awesome, and It's the one time I think Arnold did a good performance. Oscar Worthy even!

[Siamese Sith]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif "Sarrah Conna"
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif "yes"
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif BANG BANG BANG!
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif "you've been termunaded"

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith@May 5 2003, 04:22 PM
Kewlio! It looks like a household HK!
Yeah it does, with a built in egg beater on top. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Siamese Sith]

Bump
I'll be back style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

[Mann]

cheesy reincarnation:

She'll be back!

[Darth Vegas]

Oh yes it be much less cheesy for him to say "I'll be back" again.

[Siamese Sith]

You'll be back would even be better than she'll be back!

[Mann]

LOL, that';s true Sith, that would be better style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Siamese Sith]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

[Javen]

Is it me, or does Awnold have more make up on than Anna Nicole Smith and Tammy Faye Baker?

[Darth Vegas]

Only when it comes to the terminator make-up. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Mann]

It's to cover up the fact that Aronold can't act...well...

(except for the first one, which was the perfect role for him)

[Darth Vegas]

Oh yes, it has nothing to do with him being a cyborg. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

Mann, I suggest you see the following films: Running Man, Total Recall, Twins, Kindergarten Cop, Eraser, and of course, True Lies. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

The man is perfect in most of the roles he picks.

[Mann]

um, no You see all his action movies. If you are trying to say Arnold can act, it's a losing battle. Ever seen let's see: Batman and Robin? Collateral damage? Conan? Raw deal? These are example of Arnold's choice movies where he just has a gun and shoots.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@May 9 2003, 07:56 PM
If you are trying to say Arnold can act, it's a losing battle.
No I'm trying to say exactly what I said, the man does a fine job in most of the films he is in.

See: Above style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Mann]

take away the word most, and supplement the word with some.

[Siamese Sith]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif bump
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif I'll be back....again

[Javen]

Originally posted by TK-007@May 9 2003, 09:11 PM
Only when it comes to the terminator make-up. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
riiighhttt...

[Mann]

^LOL!

[Siamese Sith]

That chick's gonna whoop Ahhnolds flabby arse in T3!

[Darth Vegas]

Just got back from seeing the Matrix and the new T3 trailer, looks like it's gonna kick some serious ass!!!

Check out the new final trailer for T3:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/t3/domestictrailer/

[Siamese Sith]

So you've seen X2, Matrix reloaded, and the latest trailer for T3....what are the chances T3 will be the surprise hit of the summer?

[Mann]

suprise hit? The movie is going to be huge no matter what!

From the new trialer, I must say, Arnold actually looks like he's acting in it. His whole: "I AM A MACHINE!" line looked like it had emotion in it. Also, I like the fact that it looks like he's going bad again, for part of it. that means he'll reprise part of The Terminator character, which was excellent.

[Siamese Sith]

What's the chances we'll see during the intro, Skynet sending the original T-800 back in time, then the T-1000, then the fabled scene when the humans break into skynet and capture a T-800 reprogram it and send it back in time to save John connor in T2? How does the T-850 get sent back in time? Is it true that as a last ditch effort skynet downloads itself into the T-X and sends itself back in time?

[Mann]

too many questions to answer. most likely we wont see them doing those things, but we will see Micheal Bien in the film. Maybe we'll se him go back in time. However, I think that ending the film with Skynet downloading itself into the TX would be great, adn be a good closure on the story.

Also, I guess Sarah Connors dies in this film.

[Siamese Sith]

DAM! I just caught the trailer @ apple.com ! F'N amazing looking!
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif LOL John Conner "can you defeat the T-X?"
Ahnold "Negative, I'm an obsolete model"
I was ROTFLOL!!!

[Mann]

just glad Arnold will go postal on people again. T2 was good, but to see him do the same thig wouldn't be as cool. We need the villainous terminator back!

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@May 17 2003, 10:38 AM
Also, I like the fact that it looks like he's going bad again, for part of it.
Arnold talked about that a little on ET I believe, he said he has to get reprogrammed.

I'm really digging that, though I would also like to see good Arnold fighting another Arnold Terminator.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What's the chances we'll see during the intro, Skynet sending the original T-800 back in time, then the T-1000, then the fabled scene when the humans break into skynet and capture a T-800 reprogram it and send it back in time to save John connor in T2? How does the T-850 get sent back in time? Is it true that as a last ditch effort skynet downloads itself into the T-X and sends itself back in time? [/b][/quote]

Yes, Mr. Cameron himself made those comments on the T2 dvd, it was originally going to be in T2, so hopefully we will get to see it this time around.

Oh BTW, if you didn't notice SS, the T-X can transform into "guns and explosives, moving parts".

[Siamese Sith]

Yeah I saw her forearm "transform" into various things. That's sooo cool hoe JC was yelling at Ahnold, commanding it! I can totally see him becoming the total badass you see at the beginning of T2 w/ the scar.
Mike Bien's gonna show up in T3?
Bond, so I'm right that Skynet downloads itself into the T-X? DUDE, SHE's SMOKIN!

[Mann]

she is hot.

[Siamese Sith]

What do you think Ahnolds cheesy line will be in this one?
Will John Conner teach him new lingo?

[Mann]

Arnold already gave his cheesy line: "She'll be back"

John Conner will be too busy running away from the hot chic.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith@May 17 2003, 01:45 PM
Bond, so I'm right that Skynet downloads itself into the T-X? DUDE, SHE's SMOKIN!
Yup I'm pretty sure of that. The T-X is Skynet, and she's damn hot!!! The international trailer shows her booty! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Arnold's cheesy lingo...

Something along the lines of: "Fo shizzle my nizzle y'all" or "What's up in the hizouse!!!" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Mann]

Okay, so then maybe the film starts with the machines losing the battle, skynet get the TX to download itself and then go back to kill conner.

[Darth Vegas]

I would imagine so, that along with everything else SS asked about up there, seeing the first T-800 sent back through time etc. etc.

[Mann]

Maybe, but I'd get all confused and such.

[Darth Vegas]

What would be confusing about it?

Skynet is defeated, John Conner and his father break into Skynet, send back Kyle and the three T-800's....

[Mann]

So many Terminators get sent back...and I thought only one could go back.

[Darth Vegas]

I have never heard anything of the sort before.

I meant the 2 T-800's, the one seen in T2, and the one seen in T3.

[Siamese Sith]

Ok so lets say we see the first T-800 sent back to T1 to kill Sarah Conner, then the humans take over Skynet long enough to send John Conner back. Then some how Skynet gets back online and sends The T-1000 back, then the humans battle back and send a reprogramed T-800 back to protect John Conner from the T-1000.
So what's the catalyst tha'll make them send the T-850 back? The T-X?

[Darth Vegas]

Actaully, Skynet is supposed to send the three baddies before she is defeated.

She anticipates failure and because of that she send the Terminators back in time to kill John Conner.

[Mann]

did they say that in the first movie? (i forget, i only remember Michael Bein saying one)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>, then the humans take over Skynet long enough to send John Conner back[/b][/quote]

whoa! when did he get sent back? I thought the issue was he wasn't going to get sent back. Michael Bien gets sent back, but then has sex with Sarah and they conceve John.

[Siamese Sith]

I sorta remember Kyle saying something like that, but I guess he wouldn't know about the other events since they took place after he's sent back in the future, and after he dies in the 80's.....(the past)

[Mann]

Still, he said something like: there was only enough for one of us.

See, Terminator's not about consistancy, it's about the action. The whole future thing doesn't logically work.

[Darth Vegas]

I don't recall him saying that, but he did say this:

REESE

"...it had no choice.

The defensive grid was

smashed. We'd taken the

mainframes...

We'd won. Taking out

Connor then would make no

difference. Skynet had to

wipe out his entire exist-

ence. We captured the lab

complex. Found the...what-

ever it was called...the

time-displacement equipment.

The Terminator had already

gone through. They sent two

of us to intercept, then

zeroed the whole place.

Sumner didn't make it."

And then this:

SILBERMAN

"Then how are you supposed to

get back?"


REESE

"Can't. Nobody goes home.

Nobody else comes through.

It's just him and me."

[Mann]

well he only said 1 went through. so the consistenacy is bad in those films. but who cares, things explode. It's all good!

[Darth Vegas]

This is precisely what he said:

"They sent two

of us to intercept, then

zeroed the whole place.

Sumner didn't make it."

How he knew the guy got killed in the process I don't, but he was sent back with someone else.

And of course if he went through before the 2 T-800's were sent, he wouldn't know about that.

[Mann]

I thought they built their own thing, or repaired it to go and stop them.

anyway, the thing is that unless the two went through at the same time, then it would all go to hell. If one terminator goes through, the instant he left, time would change. It's logic, because if he goes back, then he changes time and none of that happens.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@May 17 2003, 07:04 PM
I thought they built their own thing, or repaired it to go and stop them.
Nope, they broke into Skynet after defeating her, they used SKynet's time travel technology.

Do you have the T2 dvd Mann? James Cameron talks about all of this stuff.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@May 17 2003, 07:04 PM
anyway, the thing is that unless the two went through at the same time, then it would all go to hell. If one terminator goes through, the instant he left, time would change. It's logic, because if he goes back, then he changes time and none of that happens.
Umm, I don't think so.

They don't necessarily have to be sent back at the same time, they have to be sent back to the same time.

[Mann]

Originally posted by TK-007+May 18 2003, 03:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TK-007 @ May 18 2003, 03:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mann@May 17 2003, 07:04 PM
anyway, the thing is that unless the two went through at the same time, then it would all go to hell. If one terminator goes through, the instant he left, time would change. It's logic, because if he goes back, then he changes time and none of that happens.
Umm, I don't think so.

They don't necessarily have to be sent back at the same time, they have to be sent back to the same time. [/b][/quote]
No look at the logic

The minute you get sent back in time everything changes because by the time the actions you have already caught up with the time you are sent to. So being sent back like 30 years will cause time that you were sent to to change immeditaley.

[Darth Vegas]

Well, time was never really changed, at least not until T3 anyway.

They never stopped Skynet from being built, or John Conner from being born, which is what matters.

[Siamese Sith]

Ok lets say for arguements sake, Kyle Reese was successful in T1 AND LIVED.... John Conner would be born, he'd never need to send his father back in time. Then the possible future that once was, Judgement Day, et al no longer existed as a possiblility. So would that mean that Kyle would also disappear from current existance?

[Darth Vegas]

Well the only way to stop Judgement day from happening is to stop Skynet from being built, and if that happened than Kyle would never be sent back to begin with and John Conner would never exsist, being that Skynet developed the time displacement technology to begin with.

[Mann]

Think of this.

JOhn Conner was born before Reese, or around the same time. Without Reese, John would never be born, where as with Reese how could JOhn be around?

[Siamese Sith]

Yeah if Skynet was defeated then history would be rewritten. But since Reese and John now existed in the current timeline they wouldn't disappear. What would be cool to see if they make a definative ending w/ T3 is seeing old school 80's Sarah Conner going on that date ISO going out alone.

[Jedi Killer]

hey TK Bond 007, I like reading what you have to say about all of the Terminator stuff. One thing i dont agrue with you on style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

the only thing that I dont get with the whole terminator movies is that when they are sending people back in time to end the war....its really simple to solve. All you have to do is keep sending people back one after another until the the present is changed. So it would go like this...."arnold 1 goes in, nothing happens. arnold 2 goes in, nothing happens. arnold 57 goes in......hey its not a war now. we won, its over. ta da!"

and i agree with Bond 007 saying that T3 will be good. I have faith in this movie even though my man Cameron isnt doing ANYTHING with it. thats my only downfall of the movie.

hey bond, you think there will be a T4? they are thinking about it, with or without arnold

[Darth Vegas]

T4? I dunno, I think this film is going to nicely tie everything up...or at least we think it will. If it's successful then I wouldn't doubt that they'd go for a 4th, they are making Jurassic Park 4 after all.

[Jedi Killer]

JP4 ive heard and they need to give it up! just STOP or go straight to video or dvd. leave us alone!!!!

but alien5 with cameron doing it is different (hehe) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Jedi Killer]

oh and about the guy who played Kyle (Michael Beign, bad spelling), he laughed at the idea of T3 and didnt want anything to do with it. so he aint in it!

thats gonna make it hard for them to show him going back in time.

[Handothrawn]

Just one idea I thought I'd bring up. Judgement Day happens in Rise of the Machines, so Skynet will come online. I think that the TX actually makes Skynet attain sentience, and will also make John's Terminator turn on him, which would explain where the machines get the technology to create plasma weapons, and stuff.

But in one trailer you can see John standing on a burned out car and rallying the survivors, so that leads me to think that that is part of the time when John helps people escape the camps, like in Reese's story.

But anyway...
T3 is gonna rule.

[Handothrawn]

bump

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Handothrawn@May 24 2003, 05:04 AM
I think that the TX actually makes Skynet attain sentience, and will also make John's Terminator turn on him, which would explain where the machines get the technology to create plasma weapons, and stuff.
From what I understand from James Cameron's comment about T3 on the T2 dvd and a few other sources including www.terminator3.com (http://www.terminator3.com), what happens is when Skynet foresees that it is going to be defeated, it creates the T-X which basically is Skynet in compact film, the technology they create, including the Time Displacement device is the effect of Skynet being a giant computer that does nothing but think and learn after it becomes sentient.

But you're right about Arnold turning evil, the trail showed that the TX had "..corrupted his sytem."

[Javen]

That probably means a T4 soon...?

[Handothrawn]

Has anyone read the T2 books that have come out recently?

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Javen@May 25 2003, 06:37 AM
That probably means a T4 soon...?
Possibly, there have been rumors...

[Siamese Sith]

Lets take it one T-800 at a time style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif I don't/can't see what time period will be left out after T3

[Darth Vegas]

If there is a sequel to T3, I don't think there's going to be two more Terminators sent back, rather T3 will end with a cliffhanger leading into T4.

[Handothrawn]

The rumors and stuff I've seen have said that T3 is about how the war of the machines starts and how John becomes the 'great military leader,' and T4 would be about how the survivors lead the last attempt at stopping the machines, and how they 'smash the defense grid', and how Kyle Reese gets sent back.

[Darth Vegas]

That's what I imagined, I'd like to see that.

[Mann]

I think they should end it with T3. John should stop the machines from coming and then it would be all good.

[Darth Vegas]

Well if it does, the film has alot to cover....

[Mann]

Like what? That Skynet could very well be taken down at the conclusin of the film, now that John Conner knows about the end of the world.

[Darth Vegas]

Like what? Like everything that's talked about concerning the war in the other two films.....John Conner being a slave and teaching the other slaves how to fight etc. etc., breaking the machines defense grid and defeating skynet...too much to cover in a two hour film, and by the looks of the trailers that stuff is hardly going to be touched upon, the war begins in this movie, but it centers around the TX hunting down John Conner, Arnie protecting him, and the war starts somewhere in between, hardly enough time to see Judgement Day followed by the War against the Machines, and then everything else as mentioned above.

[Mann]

yet, if the John can stop skynet before it takes over, as the movie says "Three hours" then maybe John wont have to do that.

[Darth Vegas]

Mann, he doesn't. Judgement day happens in this movie as seen in the trailer, and the war against the machines begins.

[Handothrawn]

To TK you listen. In th etrailer you can see John standing in the ruins and it looks like he's rallying the survivors, probably to get them to fight the HKs and escape the camps.

PLUS John is in his early thirties when ROTMl, he's in his forties when he sends Kyle back, so the war isn't going to end in ROTM.

[Mann]

Originally posted by TK-007@May 26 2003, 11:08 PM
Mann, he doesn't. Judgement day happens in this movie as seen in the trailer, and the war against the machines begins.
You do remember the dreams and such that are in the other films, and the "flashbacks" that happen? Maybe this is it. John is attempting to stop Judgement Day from happening.

[Darth Vegas]

Dude, it says all over the add campaing "The war begins July 2nd".

How much more clear can you get?

[Mann]

Do you not see in the trailer that JOhn is trying TO STOP the war? That was the whole point of T2 remember? They wanted to end the creation of Skynet. My guess is that Skynet starts to rise up, but it will lose out before the end of the film.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@May 27 2003, 06:08 AM
Do you not see in the trailer that JOhn is trying TO STOP the war?
I've seen all the trailers Mann, nothing like that was stated at all.

He simply said Judgement day was going to happen in three hours, and by the looks of it, it does.

Did you miss the part where John asked Arnold if he would be able to defeat the Tx and Arnie said no?

The War with the Machines takes place after Judgement day, the war begins in this movie, so do the math.

Stopping Skynet and Judgement Day from happening would mean erasing John from exsistance, which would mean Skynet was never defeated in the future, which would mean John Conner never sent back Kyle Reese to begin with, which could mean Skynet wins anyway, because it creates a paradox.

Bottom line, the war begins in T3, it may or may not be won by the end of it, but it is not stopped from happening at all.

[Mann]

Originally posted by TK-007+May 27 2003, 02:21 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TK-007 @ May 27 2003, 02:21 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mann@May 27 2003, 06:08 AM
Do you not see in the trailer that JOhn is trying TO STOP the war?
I've seen all the trailers Mann, nothing like that was stated at all.

He simply said Judgement day was going to happen in three hours, and by the looks of it, it does.

Did you miss the part where John asked Arnold if he would be able to defeat the Tx and Arnie said no?

The War with the Machines takes place after Judgement day, the war begins in this movie, so do the math.

Stopping Skynet and Judgement Day from happening would mean erasing John from exsistance, which would mean Skynet was never defeated in the future, which would mean John Conner never sent back Kyle Reese to begin with, which could mean Skynet wins anyway, because it creates a paradox.

Bottom line, the war begins in T3, it may or may not be won by the end of it, but it is not stopped from happening at all. [/b][/quote]
I've seen the trailers too Bond, frankly saying that Judegement happens in 3 hours is like them saying: "We have three hours to stop judgement from happening"

Remember, Sarah Conner and JOhn Conner at the end of t2 go on a mission to prevent the coming of Judgement day. That's why she tried to kill the guy incharge of Cybertronics.

Also, basic continuity hasn't been very good in this story. John being the son of a guy in the ftutre who was sent back on his orders? Do the math, it's doesn't work.

Arnold's Terminator wasn't supposed to beat the T-1000 either, but he did. He begins to learn human emotion, and he's able to overcome being a machine and not feel he's unable to win.

I bet it starts with a redux of the machines losing, which is why John Conner is shown in the trailer holding the rifle. Just like T2.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@May 27 2003, 12:02 PM
Arnold's Terminator wasn't supposed to beat the T-1000 either, but he did. He begins to learn human emotion, and he's able to overcome being a machine and not feel he's unable to win.
Sorry you're off base there, it was never stated in T2 that Arnold couldn't defeat the T-1000. Arnold specifically states in the trailer that he cannot defeat the TX.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I bet it starts with a redux of the machines losing, which is why John Conner is shown in the trailer holding the rifle. Just like T2.[/b][/quote]

Could be, but I would think that it would come at the end of the film, that is unless there is a T4. Which is entirely possible, that rumor goes back to the first announcement of T3.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I've seen the trailers too Bond, frankly saying that Judegement happens in 3 hours is like them saying: "We have three hours to stop judgement from happening"[/b][/quote]

His exact words are "The end of the world, it's today, three hours from now." So I think not, Mann.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Remember, Sarah Conner and John Conner at the end of t2 go on a mission to prevent the coming of Judgement day. That's why she tried to kill the guy incharge of Cybertronics. [/b][/quote]

Yes, they sure do, and they failed, to quote Arnold himself in the movie, the conditions were "No one must follow your work." That is, Dyson's work, someone obviously did.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Also, basic continuity hasn't been very good in this story. John being the son of a guy in the ftutre who was sent back on his orders? Do the math, it's doesn't work.[/b][/quote]

I don't agree, the son exsisted in the future to see his father sent back in time because Kyle was sent back to the past to begin with, thus changing the course of history, you could say it was destiny, works just fine in the context of the movie, though it might be a little hard for some people to comprehend.

Time travel isn't possible anyway, that's why they call it Science Fiction. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

This movie is not just going to be a rehash of T2, the trailers and the ad campaing have made that very clear.

[Handothrawn]

Well, IMO, its pretty obvious that someone copied Dyson's work, I mean the original Terminator left behind most of its entire body(it was blown up, they actually show the legs) and the chest and head was crushed in the compactor. There was probably enough there for Cyberdyne to get the same results somewhere else with that stuff, and the arm that the second Terminator left behind.

[Mann]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I don't agree, the son exsisted in the future to see his father sent back in time because Kyle was sent back to the past to begin with, thus changing the course of history, you could say it was destiny, works just fine in the context of the movie, though it might be a little hard for some people to comprehend.[/b][/quote]

Bond, here it is.

John Conner in T2 is alive before his father. In the future he sends back Reese, to see Sarah in 1984, before John was born. He impregnates her, which makes John. So, if you think about it:

John not being conceived yet in 1984, could not have sent back Reese, because he wasn't even existing until Reese get's sent back.

Yes I know time travel doesn't exist, but i like plausibility.

[Handothrawn]

But Kyle is sent back because the sending happens in "one possible future."

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@May 27 2003, 04:52 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I don't agree, the son exsisted in the future to see his father sent back in time because Kyle was sent back to the past to begin with, thus changing the course of history, you could say it was destiny, works just fine in the context of the movie, though it might be a little hard for some people to comprehend.

Bond, here it is.

John Conner in T2 is alive before his father. In the future he sends back Reese, to see Sarah in 1984, before John was born. He impregnates her, which makes John. So, if you think about it:

John not being conceived yet in 1984, could not have sent back Reese, because he wasn't even existing until Reese get's sent back.

Yes I know time travel doesn't exist, but i like plausibility. [/b][/quote]
John exsisted in the future to see his father sent back only because he was born in the past when Kyle Reese was sent back.

[Mann]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>John exsisted in the future to see his father sent back only because he was born in the past when Kyle Reese was sent back. [/b][/quote]

But his father would never have been sent back if John had not existed, and John would then exist after his father was sent back.

[Darth Vegas]

Mann it's simple, to begin with, Kyle Reese was sent back having never met John Conner, but the momment he impregnated Sarah Conner, history changed, and John Conner was then in the future at the time Kyle was sent back.

[Mann]

um, since when did that happen? from what we hear in terminator 1, Reese get's sent back BECAUSE he met John conner, and his mission was to save John Conner. Why would he get sent back in the first place?

[Darth Vegas]

You really need to review the first film and look at the basic concepts.

John Conner is Kyle Reese's son, it's simply not possible for him to have meant John Conner to begin without going back to beging with, because John would never have been born, but by going back history changed, it's the only plausible way for it to work, and it certainly fits into what we're told in the movie.

[Mann]

Bond,

I think you must be James Cameron, becuase you've seen past the paradoxes that are created. the Terminator films aren't meant to be story driven, but If you look past everything, the film needs to make sence. Another Paradox is if the chip that would create the terminators is destroyed, then wouldn't all of them just get erased from existance?

[kopernikuz]

The movie states that the entire key to the resistance lies in John Connor... so that implies that a timeline exists where.... John Connor is born... and grows up as machines rise... Kyle Reese is born... John Connor leads a resistance... the machines decide to end the resistance by deleting from existance their leader... they send back a Terminator to kill John's mother before John is even conceived.... John sends back Reese to stop Terminator save mom.

On the whole... that's a great story as long as you leave out one impossible (even with multiple timelines) statement... that Reese is Connor's father. In order for Connor to exist in the first place to send Reese, he has to be born first... You are thinking as if the future hasn't happened yet... but it has... we all know what happens... and because it happens Connor is able to send Reese back... but he MUST exist PRIOR to that happening... and if Reese is his father... then SOMEONE ELSE in that future would have had to send him back... because in that future, Connor cannot exist yet...

Here is a valid timeline where Connor can be Reese's son:

+----No Connor, Machines rise----Resistance happens----some leader sends back Kyle Reese to save... um... whom? Some lady who right now has no connection to the resistance... but if you knock her up her son could end up helping us out tremendously, thanks Reese, take one for the team....---+

It is simply not possible in any time travel theory to send back someone to conceive you... You would have had to have been conceived already. And if you could, the machines would simply have to kill Reese in the future prior to his little trip and suddenly Connor doesn't exist.

You have great difficulties already when you mess with time travel in a film... but there are certain probabilities and possibilities which you just can't toss aside.

Here's an example... I don't know if you have a brother... but let's say you don't right now. Now follow me on a little adventure... You are five, you are an only child... you are twenty, you are an only child... you are thirty, you are an only child and wish desperately that you'd had a sibling... but you HAVE discovered how to send people back in time... so... in a moment of inspiration you talk Mel Gibson into travelling back in time to meet your mom and concieve a brother. Now let's follow Mel... he comes back to when you were five years old... meets your mom, has a few drinks, one thing leads to another and voila!... she's pregnant... nine months later she gives birth to your brother, Mel Jr. and you are six years old. Now you'd like to think that the rest of the timeline plays out as normal, but it won't... now it is You are six, you have a brother... you are twenty, you have a brother... you are thirty, you have a brother and NO desire nor need to send back Mel Gibson to conceive one...

Now here's where things get tricky... you could have a paradox... if you have no desire to send Mel back... then the event that took place that created your brother... never happened.... so how can your brother exist now? The only way it works is if you now created a branching timeline... even then, it sucks because you have a brother in this new parallel timeline or existence... but in the original timeline you are still thirty, have no brother, and Mel has come back immensely satisfied from his trip. Now there are parallel existences... and you managed to make a parallel version of yourself happy... but the version here who wanted the brother remains lonely... unless Mel decides to stick around and be your friend.

So, let's take what we've learned about time travel and apply it to Connor and Reese. Connor cannot possibly send Reese back to concieve him... in fact, other than the moral and incestual implications... if you allow for that then you must also allow the possiblity that Connor could go back and concieve himself.

Connor and Reese must both be born along a timeline... Machines must then threaten Connor's past... and Reese can go back to protect that past. But they must exist on the timeline FIRST... one cannot go back and concieve oneself. Period. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

A good example of this was Back to the Future. What if Marty hadn't realized that the girl fawning over him was his mom? What if he'd not ensured that she hooked up with his dad and had just wooed her on his own? He'd cease to exist... which is what the movie suggested would happen. This movie series best played with the ideas of time travel, because even Doc had dreamt up the Flux capacitor before he saw it in the Delorean in 1950. Otherwise, they'd have created a paradox too... When Marty gave his dad some confidence, 1980 was a different world... in fact, he arrived just as his previous self was taking off into the past. Imagine if he'd arrived earlier... and somehow stopped himself from going into the past... talk about a paradoxical nightmare...

You run into all kinds of problems with this kind of movie... but some movies play the conventions well... and others throw them out the window for completely impossible ideas... Terminator is one of the latter...

... but it's a damn good time.

[Darth Vegas]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Handothrawn]

Well, I think its makes pretty good sense if you take into account the fact that the future isn't set, and the timeline where John sends back Reese is only one possible future.

Reese is sent back in time by some one different all together, but once he gets there, the timeline where he is john's father is cemented in place once Reese can come true because Kyle impregnates Sarah. Then since the future is now set, Sarah tells John to send back Kyle, and John trains Kyle to love Sarah, if you get any of this.

Still, it is a damn good movie irregardless.

[Handothrawn]

Just found a website that explains the Terminator time travels in a scientifically more correct, or theorized to be scientifically correct way. Hope this will clear it up for everyone.

"Original History
The first movie presents a story in which a robot from the future comes back in time to kill the mother of an as-yet-unborn rebel leader. During the course of the movie, the child is conceived, as son of a man he has sent back from the future to protect his mother; the robot is destroyed and the father killed.

The patent absurdity of this immediately presents itself: the birth of the rebel leader is dependent upon his adult self sending his father back in time to meet his mother. Most reasoning adults would immediately write this off as impossible. However, in studying the patterns of temporal anomalies, we discover a form elsewhere referred to as an "N-Jump", which, properly understood, resolves this difficulty.

In an N-Jump, time extending from the past reaches point A, the point in time to which a traveler from the future will return, and beyond to point B, the point from which the traveler leaves for the past. During this segment of the time line, no changes have been made; it is the original unaltered sequence of events. When our traveler leaves point B, that time line ends--the history based on the A-B segment cannot progress, because the instant the traveler reaches point A, it is changed by his presence, and is re-named point C; this creates an alternate C-D timeline, with D being the same point in time as B. If at point D, the traveler can and does return to point C with the same intentions, history is able to continue into the future. This is an N-Jump.

(The temporal anomalies mentioned here are defined and described more completely in Appendix 11: Temporal Anomalies, of the Referee's Rules of Multiverser, an RPG from Valdron Inc, and in the Primer on Time on this site.)

If upon reaching point D, there is any reason why the traveler cannot return to point C, or if there is no reason for him to do so, the result is an infinity loop: the original A-B segment is restored, ending with the return to the C-D segment, reverting to the A-B segment in a perpetual cycle. In this case, there is no future beyond the time represented by points B and D.

The N-Jump provides the solution to the absurdity of the first Terminator movie. It suggests that this is not the original timeline, but the altered timeline. Although the story of the original timeline has not been told, a substantial amount of it can be reconstructed.

In the original timeline, Sarah Conner's life was fairly ordinary. Very near point A, she met a guy unknown to the altered timeline; he is the necessary original father of John Conner. So little remains of this timeline that almost anything is possible. John Conner might have had a different name, if his mother married. He might in this original timeline have been a girl. One thing is certain: when the war came, Sarah Conner's child was a thorn in the flesh of Skynet.

Of course, Skynet also must have been created in the original timeline, or there would be no war. However, the details of this creation are unknown, as will become clear as the thread unravels."

[Handothrawn]

Part II of the theory:

First Change: Sky Net
Sarah Conner's child is a major problem for Skynet, so the computer devises the ill-considered plan of sending a machine into the past to destroy Sarah Conner before the child is born. It is important to recognize that this is point B; nothing done after this moment follows from the same history. That gives us information about the C-D timeline, because we know that certain things did not happen. Of first importance, we know that the birth of Sarah Conner's child still occurred, because had that not happened, no one would have been sent back to protect her. In fact, had the Terminator successfully prevented the birth of that child, then the Terminator would not have been sent back (at point D), and the original timeline would have been restored, forcing the world into an infinity loop. However, something must have happened which John Conner needed to change; otherwise, no one would have come back to protect Sarah. The fact that John sends Reese tells us first that the Terminator failed, but second that something was dreadfully wrong.

This is a difficult point. John must know that the Terminator failed, or he would not be alive. Sending Reese is a calculated risk; if it goes wrong, John may cease to exist. However, there is a possible reconstruction of this segment which solves the problem. Remember that when the Terminator reached the past, he began killing people named Sarah Conner. Perhaps Sarah became aware of this, and fled. It is still necessary that she have a child. It may or may not have the same father as the other. The Terminator, intent on its mission, pursues her, catches her, and kills her. Its simple logic tells it the mission is accomplished, and it finds a place to shut down. It does not understand the basic failure: John Conner has been born. The first N-Jump resolves, and there is a future

Second Change: Rebels
The grown Conner child doesn't like that future. He wants to save, not himself, but his mother. So he sends Reese back to protect his mother. Reese doesn't realize that the Terminator had to fail in order for this time line to exist; he thinks he's there to save Sarah's child. However, his presence drastically changes the entire timeline in several ways. First, he interferes with the birth of Sarah Conner's child, replacing the original father with himself. Second, he gives information to Sarah which she uses to protect herself and to prepare John to be a more formidable opponent. Third, he jump-starts the Skynet program.

This third point will require some reflection. In the second film, we are introduced to Cyberdyne Systems, the company which created Skynet by studying parts from Terminator. However, in the original timeline, someone created Skynet, and it was most likely someone else, someone who was very near the technological breakthrough when, in this timeline, the system goes on line. So now the dates are all shifted earlier, and the company credited with the development has changed.

This could create a minor loop. After all, it appears that the technology for Skynet is created sooner, preventing it from being created by someone else later. However, this is not insoluble if we recognize the creation of a brief sawtooth snap. The Terminators sent back by the original SkyNet may have been created by someone else, but as Cyberdyne takes over that technology those in the next timeline are built by them and sent back at the same point in time to do the same tasks, but with a different memory of their constructions.

Reese succeeds in saving Sarah's life. Normally, this would create an infinity loop, because the reason for sending Reese back is gone, so he wouldn't be sent back. But this new history gives birth to the John Conner we know, and he knows from his mother that Reese is his father, and that he saved his mother's life, so this John has a different reason to send Reese back. It is this segment which is shown in the first movie, and which forms the history for the second.

(This actually creates another sawtooth snap. John will have given Reese information which Reese will give Sarah, who will give it to John. This timeline may repeat several times until the information stabilizes--that is, what John tells Reese affects what Sarah tells John, and vice versa, so that information may be in flux for several repeats of the events, changing history slightly but not critically.)

[Handothrawn]

Part III of the theory:

Third Change: Skynet
This timeline still brings the war, and John and Skynet are still primary combatants. The computer, still not comprehending the hazards of attempting to change history, sends a more advanced Terminator back, this time to kill John. Remember: that instantly changes history. No one can remember a past in which that Terminator did not return. There is therefore an altered time segment again lost to us in which the T-1000 tried to kill John Conner and failed, but which John Conner felt it vital to alter by sending the first Terminator model back to protect himself from a machine which he knew from his perspective had already failed in its mission. Let's reconstruct it.

As unlikely as it seems, John Conner must manage to evade the T-1000 with the aid of such friends as he can find. The T-1000's backup plan was to capture Sarah, to use her as bait in his effort to catch John. John doesn't take the bait; he recognizes that his one hope is to survive. His mother, perhaps aided by police or military authorities, manages to destroy the T-1000 before it reaches John. However, she dies in the process. Thus at the end of this altered timeline, John determines once again to save his mother. Only the stakes are higher. If in sending help for his mother he opens the door for the Terminator to kill him, he has lost everything, even time itself. So he sends the original model Terminator back to protect himself, knowing that as a boy he would have saved her if he could have, and knowing that if he succeeded he would know that he saved his mother because he sent the Terminator back, and so would do so at the right time. The future is preserved.

Fourth Change: Rebels
Unfortunately, Sarah doesn't realize the complications of temporal anomalies. She thoroughly questions the machine, discovering how Skynet comes to be. No one realizes that all of this information is based on a time line which has been altered not less than five times from the original. All of the critical facts have changed. Relying on this information, Sarah Conner destroys all trace of the Skynet project at Cyberdyne, and (with a lot of help) both Terminator machines. She believes that she has stopped the war.

She has not stopped the war. She has merely created a new timeline. The company which originally invented Skynet will now invent it on the original schedule. The destruction of Cyberdyne and the original terminator will only shift the construction of Skynet back to its original timetable, unknown to us but undoubtedly slightly later.

She may have also changed her information. In this timeline she by destroying Cyberdyne has thrown Skynet back to the unknown company, but the sequence is again fforced to repeat itself. Just as in this timeline the Terminator has no knowledge of the company who would have developed Skynet had Cyberdyne failed, so too the Terminator who returns at the end of this link would know only that Sarah Conner destroyed the wrong company: it was not Cyberdyne but its competitor who created Skynet.

Here our story halts. We are in the second leg of our fourth temporal anomaly. To review, the first terminator killed Sarah after John was born, creating an N-Jump. Reese saved Sarah, but jump-started Skynet, creating a second anomaly, but because at the end of the second leg of this anomaly John sends Reese back not to save his mother but to become his father, and information flows in a circuitous manner from the future to the past to the future, this becomes a sawtooth snap resolved into an N-Jump escape. The T-1000 returns and, unable to kill John, instead kills his mother, creating a third anomaly, also an N-Jump. The fourth anomaly begins when the original terminator returns, ostensibly to protect John but actually to save Sarah; we are in the second leg of this anomaly. But this anomaly is going to become a problem, not because a person or a machine returned to the present, but because information did.


The problem begins when Sarah Conner questions the Terminator about the future. Changes begin to occur when Sarah Conner begins to question the Terminator regarding the future, because she in the segment we saw has changed that future, and so the machine's information regarding its past should be different. According to its version of the future, Sarah Conner attacked and destroyed Cyberdyne Systems, for no apparent reason. John Conner knows this; he knows it was based on information from the terminator which for some reason proved incorrect. Another company, the company which built the terminator, was responsible for the development of Skynet, which went on line at a date later than Sarah expected. Sarah would probably, and foolishly, attempt to destroy the research at that other facility as well. This would be more difficult, since that is genuine original research, not based on the study of pieces of a machine from the future; therefore, it will be spread out, stored in pieces in dozens of separate databases throughout the company, duplicated in the files of several individuals in several departments. However, she is obsessed with stopping the war, so she will probably try.

If she succeeds, an infinity loop is created--an extremely complex one. She is not only still in the C-D segment of the fourth anomaly, she is still in the C-D segment of every anomaly, including the first. If she stops the war, time is thrown back to the first segment, the segment in which she knew nothing and made no effort to stop anything, the segment in which she had a child of unknown name by a man not mentioned in the stories, and an unknown company launched a system called Skynet which became sentient and started a war to protect itself. All of time is caught in the loop. Let us hope she cannot stop the war.


It doesn't matter whether in this segment she destroys Cyberdyne. If she destroys the other company, the original terminator cannot come back, therefore Cyberdyne cannot have the pieces of the technology from the future, therefore neither company can create Skynet, war is averted, and time is restored to the original segment in which war is inevitable: the loop occurs.

If she fails, the original company continues on the original schedule. Cyberdyne is out of the picture, immaterial to the future. The war comes on the never-revealed original date, and the future is preserved. All that matters is that the war must begin, and Sarah Conner's child must survive to become SkyNet's enemy.

[Handothrawn]

Part IV of the Theory, Last Part:

Looking Ahead


It is rumored that a Terminator 3 is coming. Let us hope the script writers consider the matter carefully. There are a few directions such a film could take.

It is doubtful that they would attempt to present the C-D segment of the current anomaly; although that makes better temporal sense, it makes bad theater. Most of the patrons will have little understanding of the temporal anomaly created when Sarah used future information to change the future, and a reconstruction of those events with the new timeline will confuse most, bore most, and cost a great deal of money to re-create a story too like one already told. Yet to treat the C-D segment as the history which continues into the future would be equally faulty. Somehow the history of the A-B segment must be maintained in the C-D segment. There is one way to cause this: John must lie to his mother.


From his perspective in the future, although John cannot see all of the threads, he can see that the past has been tampered with severely. He can see that the original history is unknown to him. At the end of the A-B segment of this fourth anomaly, this is his history; the events of this line are established according to all that has happened to this point:

His mother was attacked by a machine sent back from the future by Skynet to prevent his birth. This induced him to cause his own birth by sending Reese back, instructing him to protect his mother. His mother was locked up as insane, but when another machine was sent by Skynet to kill him, he rescued her, using the original machine which he sent back to do so. Both of those machines were destroyed, and Cyberdyne Systems was also destroyed, because the Terminator told them that Cyberdyne designed Skynet, and told them when the war would start. But it was another company which ultimately designed Skynet, and the war began anyway--but later than expected. Clearly, time has been changed multiply, and changing it again is not going to stop the war. John Conner may even realize that stopping the war would so convolute time that there would be no future. But at this point, if he does not send the terminator back on schedule, he has an infinity loop (a smaller one--only this last anomaly loops, as Sarah, being killed by the T-1000, fails to destroy Cyberdyne, so Cyberdyne beats its competitor to Skynet, so the events of the first segment recur). He will recognize that he must send the terminator back "to protect himself", in order to save his mother, but that it is necessary for the Terminator to give his mother the same--now wrong--information it gave before, so that she will repeat her previous actions. Therefore, he must program the Terminator with the wrong information, so that it will give Sarah the answers which preserve the timeline, not the answers which will stop the war. If he does this, the C-D segment is indistinguishable from the A-B segment, but that at the end of the C-D segment John will have to send the Terminator back based on his knowledge that the Terminator came back with specific information, and will have to repeat the process based on the previous time line.

(All of this assumes that an effort to change the past which fails will not result in a decision not to attempt to change the past the same way again. We must assume that, given full knowledge that both Terminators failed in their missions, Skynet will still send them back in the hope that the result will be different. If a decision is made not to send someone back at the end of the C-D segment of an anomaly who did return at the end of the A-B segment of that anomaly, an infinity loop is created; this hangs over the entire scenario, and we must assume that as long as the past has not changed in the desired way, those in the future will take the same actions to change it.)

Thus, if John Conner lied to his mother, programming the Terminator with the information it would have had on the A-B segment of this anomaly, then all that we saw in the second movie would still be the history of the C-D segment, the history upon which the future is built. History would continue beyond the end of this segment, as John would have the same information at the end of this segment as he had at the end of the last one. However, with that bit of future, there is something he can do which will result in the happiest possible ending (given that the war is necessary) which may also make for a good basis for a movie:

He can invade the past once more, this time taking the initiative to reach the past first. If a temporal recall device has been developed, he might even come himself.

In this scenario, John, from a point in the future beyond all of the time travelers to date, devises a way to build a weakness into Skynet. In order to win the war, he must return to the past and penetrate the systems of the company which ultimately develops Skynet. At this point he must create the flaw, a weakness which will be undetected by the developers, and which will not prevent the war or any of the temporal transits previously made, but which the rebels can use after he leaves for the past to end the war. While he is in the past, he must give to his younger self the secret, but in a form which the young John cannot fully comprehend until he reaches the same point in the future. Thus, John will understand that a weakness exists in Skynet because he went back in time and put it there, and that that weakness must not be accessed until after he goes back in time, or time is lost. This creates a simple N-Jump, at the end of which the rebels will be able to stop Skynet by accessing that weakness.

To keep it in harmony with the other Terminator movies, we should suggest that, in the space of time between John's exit to the past and his ability to stop Skynet, Skynet sends another Terminator into the past, this time to destroy the older John before he can effect his change; a more sophisticated machine, it will recognize that it can win by killing either John, and that it can use John's mother as a bargaining chip as long as it has her alive. This will give us the full action of the previous terminator movies. However, the younger John cannot be killed without creating an infinity loop, and the older John must finish the work and return to the future to take advantage of it.

There are a few other possible scenarios for the next anomaly; however, I have seen none which afford a clean temporal resolution and contain sufficient action to be worthwhile as a movie.


Link to website:
http://www.mjyoung.net/time/terminat.html

[Mann]

This theory Handothrawn, is just that as such. The basically not going to register with the audience as they would have to think really hard. Yes this is a grerat series non the less, but the logic is still not right. This was James Cameron's second screenplay, and if you look at Titanic it's an example of his "finest" writing, so don't make him out to be some great thinker. The whole idea is to make a robot come back in time and try to kill some one. that's waht all three are. No logic is involved. No need. But if you take th etime to think about it, it can't work.

[Handothrawn]

Yeah, I know. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Mann]

Originally posted by Handothrawn@May 28 2003, 10:44 PM
Yeah, I know. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
know what?

[Siamese Sith]

Not to sound like a total dork, but there's a really good book by Richard Bach titled One. It attempts to tackle the perplexing theories of multiple realities.....take a look at your fingerprint style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Nerd. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

I'll have to check that out, hopefully it's at the local library... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[Siamese Sith]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif Oh GOD now I'm a dorky nerd! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Hey didn't say I wasn't... :look:

[Mann]

everyone on this site is!

[Handothrawn]

I know it can't work.

[Jango]

thats going to be a great movie

[Jedi Killer]

i hate how Arnold wants to do a T4 and we havent even seen T3.......he's just trying to suck all of the money out of these movies.

[Handothrawn]

There was a time when Arnie said he'd never do another Terminator, and if he did he wouldn't do it without James Cameron.

[Darth Vegas]

Could a mod please delete or edit Jango's post up there, that's just rude.

[Handothrawn]

Aaron Allston is writing a book that happens around the time of T3, just to let everyone know.

[Mann]

Originally posted by Handothrawn@Jun 3 2003, 12:01 AM
There was a time when Arnie said he'd never do another Terminator, and if he did he wouldn't do it without James Cameron.
That was until they gave arnold 30 million for this movie, the highest paycheck he's ever had.

[P-Ray]

I also just read an article with the new director who stated that Arnie actually didn't agree to do it until Cameron talked him into it. Cameron knew he was never going to be involved again and he encouraged Arnie to do it since the Character was such a cult classic.

Mostow, the director also said that he knows sequals are suppossed to be bigger and better but he has always been a more concerned with the story kind of director.

That along with the new trailer has really got me pumped for this movie.

[P-Ray]

I read T2: Infiltrator and it was really good. I'm just about to start T2:Storm Rising.

Has anybody read it? Is it any good?

[Handothrawn]

Yeah, I read Infiltrator, it was pretty cool, IMHO. Haven't got ahold of Storm Rising.

[Mann]

Originally posted by P-Ray@Jun 8 2003, 10:52 PM
I also just read an article with the new director who stated that Arnie actually didn't agree to do it until Cameron talked him into it. Cameron knew he was never going to be involved again and he encouraged Arnie to do it since the Character was such a cult classic.

Mostow, the director also said that he knows sequals are suppossed to be bigger and better but he has always been a more concerned with the story kind of director.

That along with the new trailer has really got me pumped for this movie.
James Cameron will be better known for Terminator than Titanic, I think. These movies are better and more his style.

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by TK-007@Jun 2 2003, 07:33 PM
Could a mod please delete or edit Jango's post up there, that's just rude.
From the look of it Mr Jango had alot to say... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif Hey bond PM me with the goods cause I'm sure he said more than "yeah it's gonna be good" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Jedi Killer]

yea PM me too. i wanna know style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif hehe

I think that T3 will just be average. nothing special, nothing aweful

[bodhisattva yoda]

hey. siamese sith. i love wings of honneamise! could you tell me though, how exactly is honneamise pronounced?

[Lad]

Yunno, every time I hear about this film, I wonder why they're bothering? I mean, look at T2. It ended, perfectly wrapped up. There was no more Skynet, no more Judgement Day and most importantly, no sequels. A prequel I could kind of understand, though I still wouldn't like the idea, and it's not undermining the overall storyline of the first two Terminator films, but a sequel in which none of the main characters should exist? Something just isn't right there.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith+Jun 8 2003, 08:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Siamese Sith @ Jun 8 2003, 08:32 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-TK-007@Jun 2 2003, 07:33 PM
Could a mod please delete or edit Jango's post up there, that's just rude.
From the look of it Mr Jango had alot to say... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif Hey bond PM me with the goods cause I'm sure he said more than "yeah it's gonna be good" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif [/b][/quote]
Must be the new dissapearing font.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Lad@Jun 10 2003, 10:47 AM
Yunno, every time I hear about this film, I wonder why they're bothering? I mean, look at T2. It ended, perfectly wrapped up. There was no more Skynet, no more Judgement Day and most importantly, no sequels.
If Skynet was really stopped from ever exsisting, than John Conner also would've ceased to exsist, and thus we would have a paradox, if he never exsisted, than Skynet would've never been defeated in the Future to beging with and John would've never sent his father back through time to do his mother and oh no I've gone cross eyed. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[kopernikuz]

Originally posted by TK-007@Jun 10 2003, 02:21 PM
If Skynet was really stopped from ever exsisting, than John Conner also would've ceased to exsist, and thus we would have a paradox, if he never exsisted, than Skynet would've never been defeated in the Future to beging with and John would've never sent his father back through time to do his mother and oh no I've gone cross eyed. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif
LOL... well, the whole Reese as Connor's dad set aside and it's not so bad...

However... when I left T2 I didn't feel it wrapped it up at all. They made such a big deal about the chip and the arm of the original Terminator... so much so as to make sure they destroyed both in the molten steel... right?

Well, the T2 Arnold h