WORLD NEWS: The USA

[Sargoth]

From a Presidential press conference (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/11/20071107-5.html) yesterday


I spoke to President Musharraf right before I came over here to visit with President Sarkozy. And my message was that we believe strongly in elections, and that you ought to have elections soon, and you need to take off your uniform. You can't be the President and the head of the military at the same time. So I had a very frank discussion with him.


Trust us Mr. Pres'nit, regardless of the fact that our Constitution stipulates that the President is also to be the Commander in Chief, we've had five years to learn that your words ring absolutely true. "You can't be the President and the head of the military at the same time!"

[DblDwn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22272157/

Am I the only one who takes that as a threat to the judge? If he ends up dead or disappears we'll be in the middle of a real life Enemy of the State. :innocent:

[Sargoth]

I've been saying for years: "If you want to tackle illegal immigration, you have to attack the demand. If employers are held criminally liable for hiring illegal employees, they will eventually stop the practice. They do it because it's cheap, easy, and everyone turns a blind eye. They're not about to risk losing their business license over them.

Guess what??


Illegal immigrants packing up and leaving Arizona
(http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrants.leave.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)

[kopernikuz]

Interesting, nice find Sargoth... Though this part bugs me a bit:
"People are calling me telling me about their friend, their cousin, their neighbors -- they're moving back to Mexico (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/mexico)," said Magdalena Schwartz, an immigrant-rights activist and pastor at a Mesa church. "They don't want to live in fear, in terror."Instead of packing their bags, why not just... I don't know... apply for visas or legal citizenship???? What the heck?

[Sargoth]

^That falls under the entire "amnesty" controversy. Do you provide people living here illegally a way to alter their status? Or do you deport them first, then have them wait in line for a legal visa?

[kopernikuz]

Yeah I guess so... I don't know where I fall on that argument really... I don't think you just give them the chance to "flip the switch" on their status kind of... but instead of pussyfooting around they should at least apply and go through the process every legal immigrant did. If that means they do so while still on our soil, I dunno... at least they'd be in process.

I guess it does kind of sound like someone serving community service for a crime while they're still in the process of committing the crime, lol.

[T-bone]

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[leiaorgana]

US university gunman kills five

A gunman has opened fire on students at a university near Chicago in the United States, killing five people before turning the gun on himself, police say. The shooting took place at Northern Illinois University, in De Kalb, 65 miles (100km) west of Chicago.
Students ran for cover as a white male armed with two handguns and a shotgun opened fire in a lecture theatre.
Police said he had shot himself before they arrived on the scene and that there was no apparent motive.
Two weapons have been recovered and police are searching for a third firearm in Cole Hall near the King Commons, a central gathering place for the 25,000 students on campus.
The victims, four women and a man, were killed in a "brief, rapid-fire assault", university president John Peters said.


<table> <tbody><tr> <td width="5">
</td> <td class="fact"> <!--So--> <!--Eo--> <!--Smva--> Some girl got hit in the eye, a guy got hit in the leg
<!--Emva--> <!--Smva--> George Gaynor
Student <!--Emva--> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The gunman was believed to be a former graduate student in sociology, but he was not currently enrolled at the university, Mr Peters told a news conference.
Earlier reports said 17 victims had been transported to Kishwaukee Community Hospital, several with serious head wounds.
The shooting comes 10 months after 32 students and staff were shot by a student at Virginia Tech University in one of the worst shootings ever at a US school.
It is also the fourth shooting at a US education establishment within a week.
Last Friday, a woman shot dead two fellow students before killing herself at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge. In Memphis, Tennessee, a 17-year-old is accused of shooting and critically wounding a student on Monday, and a 15-year-old was shot at a junior high school in California on Tuesday.
Terrifying
A student named John told local radio station WBBM that the gunman entered a lecture theatre and began firing a shotgun on the more than 100 students inside.


"He pointed it into the middle of the class... then he went for the teacher," John said.
George Gaynor, a senior geography student, told the student newspaper that the gunman was "a skinny white guy with a stocking cap on".
He described the scene immediately following the incident as terrifying and chaotic.
"Some girl got hit in the eye, a guy got hit in the leg," he said.
The university's website first issued alerts, warning of the possibility of a gunman on campus.
"Get to a safe area and take precautions until given the all clear," it warned students.
The site then carried updates confirming the shooting and telling students to stay away or stay in doors. It then said the gunman was "no longer a threat".
Emergency hotlines and counselling are being offered for students and parents.



Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/7246003.stm

[JediKeri]

*sighs*


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[Jedi Master Harrison]

OK, to avoid heading too far off topic in the 2008 election thread.........

The top news item in the UK tonight is the economic crisis in the USA. It disturbs me that it appears that the 2 main political parties simply cannot agree on the right method to try to turn the economic downturn around. In fact to me, for want of a better phrase, it is simply retarded.

Today, another bank went down, while they continue to debate instead of taking much needed action. While I appreciate that both Democrats and Republicans want to win the election, they must realise the devastating effect that it will have on the country if they do nothing to stop this crisis as they are in stalemate. Uniting now will make the nation much stronger for whoever eventually wins.

The knock on effect around the world, if it is not sorted, is going to be very significant, it is not going to just affect US inhabitants. I am very interested (and worried!) to read that most US residents are more interested in the election and the debates than they are in the state of the economy. It sounds to me as if a huge collapse is possible, massive unemployment is not out of the question - and again this is not going to just affect the one country.

As a UK mortgage payer who currently lives (through no choice, I might add) on a monthly cheque by cheque basis, I am very concerned that when my mortgage comes up for renewal in a couple of months I am going to be screwed. How are people in the US thinking about this? Are there similar concerns? Or do you believe that in fact there is no crisis and it can be easily reconciled?

[Sargoth]

As a UK mortgage payer who currently lives (through no choice, I might add) on a monthly cheque by cheque basis, I am very concerned that when my mortgage comes up for renewal in a couple of months I am going to be screwed. How are people in the US thinking about this? Are there similar concerns? Or do you believe that in fact there is no crisis and it can be easily reconciled?

Since I don't know the UK mortgage industry, what do you mean by Mortgage renewal? I'm *assuming* it's a parallel to the US ARM (adjustable rate mortgage) where the interest rate remains fixed for a brief period of time, then adjusts monthly thereafter based on market conditions.

We got into our first house on an ARM (at 4.25%! FTW!), but after two years, as rates started a steady climb, we refinanced into a 30 year fixed-rate mortgage at about 5.7%. So there's no issue for us, although we've lost about $100,000 in equity in the past two years as the housing meltdown started. But we bought at the perfect time, so we're still somewhat ahead of the game.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Yeah, that's right. I got a 2 year fixed mortgage at 5.09% but it will revert to something like 7% now, which will mean a significant increase in monthly payments. But with things possibly getting a lot worse, then I am very concerned. Further, inflation is steadily rising here and costs of living are increasing way beyond that of wages.

Had I sold my home a year ago I would have made about £15k on it. If I sold it today I would probably be even. But, as house prices continue to drop, I could end up having negative equity. Living in a 1 bed starter home, this is an issue as obviously at some point you need to move on. Now I'm for sure not in the worst situation, many people have moved over the last year and so would already be in negative equity.

I am also lucky in that I have a relatively stable job and would be quite high up the pecking order if redundancies were required. I am just surprised I guess at the seeming apathy that US residents have at this time when your economy could be on the brink of a serious collapse, when I am sweating it here and things aren't quite as bad. It's frustrating worrying about things that are beyond your control - and are seemingly not being dealt with.

[sharyntyre]

You aren't the first to say the US is apathetic, as a nation. We're quite cynical about our government's ability as well.

I'm hearing a lot of mixxed views around work and among friends about the failed bail out bill. Everyone agrees things need change, and the government needs to help, but no one I know is ready to storm DC over it, or anything else for that matter.

I'll stop before I get the ol'

:offtopic:

[T-bone]

Lots of Bailout Protesters out in the city today.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

^ They obviously skipped economics lessons. Poverty also kills.

[DblDwn]

We need to get those pictures up in the Caption Cantina.

I like how casual the guys having lunch on the steps are.

[T-bone]

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Jesus_costume_gets_child_sent_home_from_school.htm l

[kopernikuz]

That is abso-frickin-lutely ridiculous... unbelievable.

[DblDwn]

I'm about as Atheist or Agnostic as one can be but that is absolutely pathetic. Any non-religious person who is offended by a child dressing as Jesus for Halloween needs something to do with their time because they clearly have too much of it on their hands.

[Sargoth]

Am I the only one who thought of the South Park episode "Pink Eye" when reading this?

[DblDwn]

Never been a big South Park fan. More casual than anything. Remember, I'm the only person left on Earth who still has never seen one episode of The Simpsons. I do enjoy Family Guy though.

[T-bone]

http://www.northjersey.com/news/northernnj/West_Paterson_no_more.html

Yep - you guessed it. This is my town.
I'm sure my taxes are going to go up for changing logos on friggin letterheads and other crap. Yippee.

[DblDwn]

Is that where Tim Thomas is from? I seem to remember he played ball at Paterson Catholic or something like that.

[T-bone]

Are you talking sports? Because I don't speak that language.

[DblDwn]

Fair enough

[T-bone]

Yea I just don't follow sports - no idea who people are in sports.
Couldn't care less. I like a game now and then like anyone.
I don't follow players.
If he's from West Paterson, he's not anymore.

[kopernikuz]

That's kind of weird, how do you feel about it... did you vote for it? Why did they feel the need to change the name?

[T-bone]

No I didn't want it.

The issue mainly is this. The town of Paterson is next door. It's sort of like a Newark. Very urban, drugs, crime, poor - etc. Not all of it, but a lot. Big town.

Many years back the town of East Paterson decided they didn't like being associated with Paterson anymore so they got their name changed to Elmwood Park (E.P. - East Paterson/Elmwood Park --- see?) It's thinly veiled racism in a way but whatever.

They've been trying for a few years to change this town's name too. I didn't think it would go through but it did. So now I live in Woodland Park (W.P - West Paterson/Woodland Park)

But man, if they start raising taxes to pay for sign changes and crap like that I'm gonna really be pissed. Our mayor (and Gov) are all tax happy freaks. NJ is out of control with tax and spend. Then when they get in a hole, they just tax us more. That's the main reason I didn't vote blue down the line.

[T-bone]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081106/ap_on_re_us/odd_passenger_duct_tape;_ylt=AhtuQbgZ5EJfVJRGsEuvJ PMDW7oF

[DblDwn]

Don't get me wrong, I like to have a drink now and then just as much as the next person, but even I think that there's a lot to be said for the state of someone who is cut off at 30,000 feet.

[T-bone]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=6251086&page=1

Campaign Boogeyman William Ayers Talks to 'GMA'

Chris Cuomo Grills '60s Radical Bill Ayers

By MARK MOONEY

Nov. 14, 2008 —

William Ayers, the 1960s radical whose violent history became a focal point in the 2008 presidential election, said today that the Republicans unfairly "demonized" him in an attempt to damage the campaign (rtsp://start.real.com/rd?pid=abcchan&url=081015_debate_ayers.rm) of President-elect Obama.
Ayers defended his bomb-throwing past and repeated a statement that has infuriated his critics: "I don't think we did enough."
The college professor also argued to "Good Morning America's" Chris Cuomo (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=6252993) today that the bombing campaign by the Weather Underground, the group he helped found, was not terrorism.
The Weather Underground bombed the Capitol, the Pentagon and the New York City Police Department in protest of the Vietnam War.
"It's not terrorism because it doesn't target people, to kill or injure," Ayers said.
Ayers became a boogeyman for Sen. John McCain (http://blogs.abcnews.com/liveblogging/2008/10/if-mccain-doesn.html) and Gov. Sarah Palin, who demanded to know more about Obama's relationship with his Chicago neighbor. Palin accused Obama of "palling around ... with a terrorist."
Breaking his silence today, Ayers said that the GOP attack was a "dishonest narrative ... to demonize me."
"I don't buy the idea that guilt by association should have any part of our politics," he said.
Ayers scoffed at the Republican effort to make his ties to Obama appear suspicious.
"This idea that we need to know more, like there's some dark, hidden secret, some secret link," Ayers said. "It's a myth thrown up by people who want to exploit the politics of fear."
But he was unapologetic about his militant actions (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5976774&page=1) during the Vietnam War.
"What you call the violent past, that was a time when thousands of people were being murdered every month by our own government. ... We were on the right side," he told "GMA."
The co-founder of the Weather Underground was, as McCain has claimed, unrepentant about the the bombings his group committed during the 1960s.
"The content of the Vietnam protest is that there were despicable acts going on, but the despicable acts were being done by our government. ... I never hurt or killed anyone," Ayers said.
"Frankly, I don't think we did enough, just as today I don't think we've done enough to stop these wars," he said.
<!-- page -->

Ayers Says He Is a 'Family Friend' of Obama

Ayers softened his stand on violence during the "GMA" interview.
"We knew it was wrong. We knew it was illegal. We knew it was immoral," he said, but the group's members felt they "had to do more" to stop the Vietnam War.
He urged people today "to participate in resistance, in nonviolent, direct action" to stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Ayers, 63, currently a distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, became a political pinata (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5976774&page=1) for McCain and Palin during the presidential campaign.
Despite Obama's attempt to portray their relationship as a distant one, Ayers, in a new afterward to his book "Fugitive Days," describes Obama as a "neighbor and family friend."
On "GMA," Ayers again downplayed any close ties to Obama despite the reference to"family friend."
"I'm talking there about the fact that I became an issue, unwillingly and unwittingly," he said. "It was a profoundly dishonest narrative. ... I'm describing there how the blogosphere characterized the relationship."
"I would say, really, that we knew each other in a professional way on the same level of, say, thousands of other people," he said.
He added, echoing a phrase that Obama used to describe Ayers, "I am a guy around the neighborhood."
Ayers acknowledged that he held a reception in his home when Obama began his political run for state office.
"He was probably in 20 homes that day," Ayers said.
During the campaign, Obama tried to defuse the Ayers issue by condemning Ayers' past actions as "detestable."
"The notion that ... me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn't make much sense," Obama said.
<!-- page -->

Palin Still Concerned About Ayers Tie

Ayers remained silent during the presidential race, but his proximity to Obama was highlighted on Election Day when the two men nearly ran into each other in the same polling place. As recently as Wednesday, Palin was still raising the Ayers' issue, telling NBC that she was still concerned about Obama's relationship to the former radical. Palin was the fiercest critic of the Obama-Ayers tie, accusing Obama of "palling around with a domestic terrorist." While he was a fugitive, he married Bernardine Dorhn, another member of the Weather Underground.
Obama and Ayers have several connections. The two men have also served on boards together, including the Woods Fund of Chicago and the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

[DblDwn]

While I'm not from that time, the 60's and the whole hippy and "peace and love" thing, I get it. I can understand where people who were against the war in Vietnam were coming from. And, while I'm certainly not condoning the actions taken by Ayers' group, history has more or less taught us that they were right about the war and the government was wrong. Much like history will one day do with our current war in Iraq.

But, other than that, I'm fine with Ayers. I have more respect for the man saying that they should have done more than saying that they were wrong. If you believe you were right you should not be forced by anyone to say otherwise.

As for his connection with Obama I honestly could care less. I've had friends that have become junkies, drug dealers, gang members, that have killed people and have sexually abused children. That doesn't have anything to do with me. Even as their friend I'm not responsible for anything that they choose to do or have done. That's the case with Obama and Ayers. As Barack said, he was 8 when Ayers' was blowing things up. To hold that against the President-elect is to grasp at the last straw.

Which, ironically, is what Palin is down to. Can someone please tell her that she lost and that she needs to move on.

[T-bone]

I have more respect for the man saying that they should have done more than saying that they were wrong.


I'll go ahead and disagree with that.


As for his connection with Obama I honestly could care less.

Something tells me that were Obama a republican, you'd care more.

[DblDwn]

Not really and I don't appreciate the implication. Thank you very much.

[Vibroblade]

I second the implication.

[DblDwn]

If McCain had been friends with Ayers then I would have no problem with it just like I do not with the actual situation.

It was over 40 years ago. Now the man's highly respected in his field which, ironically enough, is to educate. If he can get tenured as an instructor of higher education, and can be as respected and honored in the position as he is, then the things he did more than 40 years ago don't seem to matter very much to his employers and his peers. I don't see why the general public should think any different.

[lovelucas]

^^so true and I agree which may be redundant - love your posts.

[Javen]

Here we go and with every year right on time. Now it is Thanksgiving.

People like this overlook one fact. Thomas Jefferson endorsed church services in public buildings. Love how people try to rewrite some things about history.



http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/susan_jacoby/2008/11/thanksgiving.html

[DblDwn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28067187/

There really never was any doubt that OJ was going to prison for this but it is news all the same.

The only downside of it is that it brought Fred Goldman, one of the people I can stand the least in this world, back into the lime light by the medias interest in his reaction after the sentencing.

So does OJ even survive his time in prison? A lot of clout among the cons to be made if you're the guy that, um, squeezed the life out of the Juice.

[T-bone]

This Reid really has to go. It's just getting silly now. You don't use an international crisis to squeeze in little crap you couldn't get done during the year.

Pay raise for judges tucked into bailout plan

<cite class="vcard"> By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer Andrew Taylor, Associated Press Writer </cite> <abbr title="2008-12-10T14:13:09-0800" class="timedate">Wed Dec 10, 5:13 pm ET</abbr>
<!-- end .byline --> WASHINGTON – If the $14 billion bailout plan for U.S. automakers passes, it will help more than just Ford, Chrysler and General Motors. Federal judges would get a pay raise, as well.
The raise — an annual cost of living adjustment, or COLA — would bring U.S. District court judges up to par with members of Congress, who will receive an almost $5,000 boost on Jan. 1. District judges and lawmakers now earn $169,300 a year but are expected to be awarded a 2.8 percent raise next year, said Dick Carelli, a spokesman for the Administrative Office of the United States Courts.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., insisted that the judicial pay raise go into the automaker loan measure, which is the only item of business on Congress' lame-duck agenda.
Under ethics legislation enacted almost two decades ago, members of Congress get a cost of living raise automatically, but they have to vote to give judges an identical raise. Because the spending bill covering U.S. courts has not passed, the step is necessary if judges are going to get their COLA.
The Senate passed the judicial pay measure as a separate bill in November, but the House never acted. A House Democratic leadership aide said that while House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., supports the pay raise, it was difficult for the House to hold a stand-alone vote in the midst of a recession to increase the pay for people making far more than most workers.
As a result, Reid has taken the unusual step of linking the obscure but important judicial pay issue to the unpopular auto bailout.
There is concern among many policymakers that judges are not paid enough relative to the importance of their offices, and in six of the past 13 years, judges have been denied their pay raise as lawmakers opted not to take their own COLA.
Even with the raise, judges earn far less than lawyers at big firms, just as members of Congress make less than many lobbyists.
If the pay measure fails to go through this year, judges are likely to get the increase as one of the first pieces of business next year.

[DblDwn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28203326/

This is a big story here locally in the Portland area. Just sad. Tragic and sad.

[DblDwn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28215616/

So I'm guessing that since he was walking arm in arm with his brother that he wasn't even gay and that the men involved just assumed that they were? Either way, regardless of his sexual orientation or his Hispanic roots, this is still a tragic story.

I remember watching in awe after 9/11 at how NYC came together and got through the aftermath as a whole regardless of race, gender, orientation, etc (at least that's how it looked on the news from the West coast) but now, only a short 7 years later, it looks as if any lessons learned that day have already been forgotten by some. Very sad indeed.

[DblDwn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28306346/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28306346/)

Deep Throat has been swallowed. :blink:

[Emalin]

Haaaa. :laughing:

Very interesting article... I think Felt did the right thing.

[DblDwn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28332671/

If this doesn't justify skepticism in the outgoing Administration then I don't know what to tell you. To me, this has "we need more time to coverup our shenanigans" written all over it.

[Master_Kinnon]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28215616/

So I'm guessing that since he was walking arm in arm with his brother that he wasn't even gay and that the men involved just assumed that they were? Either way, regardless of his sexual orientation or his Hispanic roots, this is still a tragic story.

I remember watching in awe after 9/11 at how NYC came together and got through the aftermath as a whole regardless of race, gender, orientation, etc (at least that's how it looked on the news from the West coast) but now, only a short 7 years later, it looks as if any lessons learned that day have already been forgotten by some. Very sad indeed.

This story made me really sad to see just how closed minded people still are. I agree with everything you said DblDwn, people should remember back to the lessons of years gone by instead of hating here and now.

[DblDwn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28477607/page/2/

This is a time when people show their true colors and we find out who our allies really are and who just kisses our @$$ for personal development.

Everybody wants to kick you when you're down and I'm sure a lot of nations are getting a kick out of watching the cool kid in class get knocked around a bit.

[kopernikuz]

Wow... that Russian's theory is kind of stupid.

[Emalin]

I wouldn't be so quick to denounce his theory. I mean, I wouldn't go so far as to predict the different parts that the U.S. will split into, OR that it will do so by 2010, but the fact remains that we as a country are in danger. And there's a chance that something will happen soon -- maybe even as soon as 2010, if things spiral out of the politicians' control. Just think about it: our economy is unhealthy, and in no small way. In fact, I would go so far as to say it's an economy that's destined to collapse due to the philosophy behind it (a debt-based economy). The value of the dollar is unstable, and I'm convinced it won't hold its value for much longer. Various industries are on their knees before the government, begging for money (which equals nationalization). But a few band-aids and bailouts are not going to fix this problem.

Sorry if I sound like a fearmonger. I'm just calling it how I see it. :(

[DblDwn]

The threat is certainly there. No one can deny that.

[Javen]

I knew eventually someone who doesn't need it would come forward.

Porn industry wants 5 billion bailout. I believe it to be more of a publicity stunt than anything.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/264775

[DblDwn]

Oh boy.

If porn can't survive the tough times what chance have the rest of us got? LOL!!!

[Sargoth]

Oh boy.

If porn can't survive the tough times what chance have the rest of us got? LOL!!!

They just need a "stimulus package". :D

[T-bone]

^^^ Ok, that was funny.

[DblDwn]

Yes it was. Nicely done.

[Sargoth]

Glad you liked it. However, I don't think I used that joke's full potential. Let me try again:


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office. A KNOCK is heard at the door.

PELOSI: Come in.

DELIVERY MAN: Hello, madame speaker. I'm here to deliver your... stimulus package.

PELOSI: Hmmm, shut the door...

Bowmp-chicka bow-wow!

[DblDwn]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

That's got the whole Log Jammin, "he fixes the cable" scene from Lebowski written all over it.Very nicely done.

[T-bone]

Glad you liked it. However, I don't think I used that joke's full potential. Let me try again:


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office. A KNOCK is heard at the door.

PELOSI: Come in.

DELIVERY MAN: Hello, madame speaker. I'm here to deliver your... stimulus package.

PELOSI: Hmmm, shut the door...

Bowmp-chicka bow-wow!


OK now you ruined it. Ew.