Why I'm Critical

[FerrisWiel]

<div align=center>Why I'm Critical of The Phantom Menace</div>

1975 - Young filmmaker with a small success in American Graffiti, George Lucas, begins, with some trepidation, the daunting task of crafting a Sci-Fi film with fantastic elements and a storybook feel, while maintaining adult sensibilities. When finished he will have created Star Wars

1978 - Still reeling from his astonishing success with Star Wars, George Lucas makes two daring decisions:

1. Change the opening crawl so that the original film, which had once been a standalone, would require three prequels.
2. Create a sequel, allowing another screenwriter to advance the plot and another director to shape the vision. Not just any sequel, though - a sequel that will require a third part.

This beautifully rendered film would become The Empire Strikes Back, richly developed, more mature, yet less commercially successful than its predecessor.

1981 - Realizing that it may be the last Star Wars film that he ever makes, George Lucas pulls out all the stops, commercially. He markets, he panders, he cajoles. It is end of the Empire, but strangely, it is the beginning of the dark times. It was Return of the Jedi.

Cute and fuzzy Ewoks romp, play and effortlessly wage a nearly-humorous war against the best of the Emperor's once-terrifying Imperial Stormtroopers. The Death Star makes its return, virtually identical to the first with only a few caveats - a shield generator, the entirety of the Imperial fleet lying in wait.

Children swoon, many to become fans for life, trapped in a myopic haze, eagerly awaiting the latest and greatest from a galaxy far far away.

Others do not. At one point or another, discerning eyes, ears, and tastes make out a phoney. A pale reflection of the series that might have been. Sure, there were passable moments and a few excellent ones, but not enough to mend the film.

1983 - Lucas' self-importance, as he believes himself a consummate storyteller, coupled with fear that he will be shown a fraud, thus shrinking his a fan base, sets in motion the spin-cycle, the dark path.

From Star Wars to Jedi, a documentary that examines the making of the Star Wars films is released. It provides many insights and even explains how to make a good film. Yet, for all of it, it seems to be more of a defense of Return of the Jedi than anything. Plot elements that seemed misplaced or bizarre are explained in one of four ways:
1. This is an incomplete story - wait for the prequels.
2. The Force is very powerful and mysterious.
3. It had been intended from the beginning.
4. The technology had been unavailable previously for his full vision to be realized.

Many bought it.

I did. I fell for the first story. How couldn't I? He had two great films and one not-so great. His batting average was excellent.

I forgave the ills.

1999 - A surprisingly cool May evening in Denver, Colorado, I kiss my girlfriend good night and make my way to the world-premiere of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, the first in a series of films to start making sense of the saga. The crowd buzzes in the theater, many dressed as Jedi and bounty hunters, more not. There is an actual hum of energy, much like that of lightsabres and hyperdrives and the excitement rises with each passing minute.

Rowdier patrons of the cineplex act out battles that never were, lightsabres slashing and crashing, they are requested to take their seats. Mine is in the upper haf of the theater, dead centered. I watch the screen, with my peripheral vision waiting for the slightest hint of the house lights going down.

Finally, they do. No false starts, no commercials, no previews, 20th Century Fox fanfare blasts us as we cheer. Reverent and anticipatory silence overtakes us as we wait following "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away."

A flare of trumpets and the title "STAR WARS" comes rushing in from over our heads. We cheer. If possible, more loudly than the first time. Plastic lightsabres are bandied about but quickly retracted out of respect for the others present as well as for the film itself.

The opening crawl is where my excitement first starts to wane. There is something about it. It seems more... slick, somehow - less gritty, obviously digital. I attempt to shake it off and read the text. Information about Trade Federations and planets called Naboo is ingested. Where is Alderaan? Why this new planet?

A sleek craft glides in as the text leaves and it also seems too glossy. It flies toward space stations hovering over an Earth-like planet. Something strikes me as I see the crew of the ship - they look like actors... better stated, they look like extras.

The villains are aliens, no hidden threat they be. They are openly cowards, never even facing the Jedi, simply attempting to gas them, opening the door after only a few scant moments.

The Jedi handle the threat of the battle 'droids with ease, using several unanticipated Jedi tricks and many well-known. It is all too easy. No losses for the heroes, no foreboding. Unlike Obi-Wan's first declaration of impending doom, there are no "bad feelings," except that everything is happening quickly with little explanation and more questions are being raised than answered.

The travels continue to Naboo where the very young Queen has a strange, if not distracting accent and an outlandish costume. No beautiful princesses here. The army marches on the city easily. The Jedi rescue the queen easily, the escape vessel takes off. Again, everything happens quickly and with great ease.

A space battle! Delight! Where are the fighters? Where is the dogfight? They're not there. The Queen's vessel is damaged and they are forced to land on Tatooine. The place with the sand, the place with the Jawas and Sand People. The place we've been to in two out of three movies. Why? Where are the worlds we have heard of but never experienced? Why are we being introduced to a brand new planet and then one that's had too much exposure already?

Qui-Gon Jinn, the elder Jedi takes a team and enters the city of Mos Espa. A slum in comparison with the Mos Eisley introduced in the Special Edition and everything looks like a film set. It all feels like it's made of aluminum and the practical alien costumes look as if they are made of rubber.

I sit lower in my seat. It is late, I had work the morning before and I will work the next morning. I hope that the film will pick up.

The troupe, new refugee in tow, heads to Coruscant, a planet I knew well, from its seedy underbelly to the palaces and high-rises. Yet all the angles seem wrong, as if they're hiding something - not evil, but plywood and plaster. The Jedi temple resides here? Again, why?

Chancellors, senators, politics, bickering. It's like C-Span with the representatives wearing weird and ridiculous masks. Queen takes King. Checkmate. Thus, by exploitation of the feeble, Palpatine begins his meteoric rise.

I now check my watch. The film has been dull. The pod race had some excitement, but it all looked fake. No matter how much CGI, it somehow looks false, almost as much as the speeder bike chase.

Yoda appears more like a puppet than ever. His eyes look wrong, and he moves his head when he talks just like a puppet. Several other Jedi now appear, one human Mace Windu. Discussion of prophecies and balance. With no knowledge of an imbalance, these points seem irrelavent.

With literally nothing accomplished on Coruscant, the team heads back to Naboo. No support. No extra Jedi.

Perhaps a battle? There is talk. Support is enlisted. Plans are made. The Jedi and other Naboo citizens in the coup-coup party easily stride into the palace and free pilots. The sleek fighters take off. Coincidentally a young pilot with no spacing experience takes a cockpit while a 'droid takes a back seat.

The coup-coup Naboo team, queen at head, makes its way into the heart of the palace as the Jedi are peeled off by a fascinating Sith with red and black tattoos. The first point of real interest. The first real challenge for these Jedi.

The coup-coup Naboo team makes it to the heart of the palace. They find the leaders of the original coup holed up in the throne room, or perhaps the Queen's bedroom, I could never tell. Surrounded, the Queen's marines are forced to surrender.

I feel the same way.

Lightsabres flashing, legs kicking and jumping, using now every trick they've demonstrated up until this point, the Jedi are on the verge of victory one minute, failure the next. The choreography is excellent. Master and learner are separated.

The Queen (decoy?) draws off the battle droids guarding the Queen (decoy?). The Naboo coup-coup team pulls out hidden weapons, killing the remaining battle droids and holding insurrectionists hostage.

Well-experienced fighter pilots, who strangely enough look like haggard extras and film crew members are being destroyed while the inexperienced boy demonstrates that talent, planning and skill aren't necessary for success and are actually detrimental. A few well-placed shots after accidentally entering a hangar bay end all challenges.

The elder Jedi is cut down. Tragic. I like him.

Battles that once looked grim now look promising as the battledroids go dead since the large battlestation destroyed was none other than the control ship.

Enraged apprentice attacks the Sith. Anger? Agression? Obviously. Any mention of it later? No. A fall, hanging. He pulls himself back up, it looks as if he were pulled up by cables. He cuts the Sith in half. All too easy.

There is a celebration, there are awards, there are funerals, there is a promotion or two.

Fanfare and credits.

The film leaves me cold and the night air feels even cooler after being inside a theater with many others generating volumes of body heat. There is absolutely no substance. Nothing to hold on to.

2001 - The great philosophies that Lucas spoke of, both as Force-principles and film-making principles were cast aside. Mysteries were replaced with plot holes, the Force became the duct-tape that held the film together and rather than answering things made bigger problems.

I tried to overlook it all. I went to the film several more times in the theater. I bought the film on VHS. When the DVD came out, I had the disposable income to purchase it but didn't. I rented it a while later and was unimpressed. More spin.

This is why I'm critical. I went into the theater as an innocent boy. I left having all of my expectations dashed by glitz and lack of substance.

If this movie was intended for children I hope that they grow out of it. It does more harm than good, feeding them pat, smug answers. Lying to them about "great visions." Diminishing their ever-shrinking attention spans. With any luck, they'll grow out of it.

As for me, there is still a faint hope. Small and glimmering; that little bit of child inside me who hopes that Episode II will be great and that Episode III will be the best ever.

--Ferris Wiel (2001)

[Siamese Sith]

I remember how much I loved Star Wars when I was a kid, I ate it up.....it will always be a happy memory of a simpler time. It is unfortunately unavoidable, we all grow up. Our perceptions are altered, we become jaded unknowingly. These new PT's don't have the same magic for most of us........but perhaps those 5 or 6 year olds seeing it for the first time are feeling what we no longer can, but desparately cling to. I droped the hope of reliving those memories ever again after seeing TPM the first time, but I don't blame GL, Jake Lloyd, Natalie Portman, or any of them.

We live in a much different world nowadays, a much more synical world. I do miss the way things were back then, but you don't see the world for what it really is thru a childs eyes.

What I look forward to more than being first on line @ the Zigfeld or having the entire saga on DVD is being able to spend a sunday watching the saga and sharing my childhood memories with my kid....when I have one:)

You can't stop the change Ferris, any more than you can stop the suns from setting.

[MegoHulk]

Very well said ferris and sith. I guess my problem with the films is that they lost a certain charm. Everything is digital and CGI and not really there. In ESB, they really were in the snow and cloud city was partially filmed in a real hotel! In TPM and AOTC, the real places stick out like a sore thumb now compared to the slick digital buildings. Talking to CGI characters just seems like a cartoon...make up effects are alot better these days...why not more of that? It just seems GL is making these movies to show off his new camera and computer equipment. I did , "enjoy" these movies though and took them at face value...a good time. I'll buy the AOTC probably...and the TPM one if I can find it really cheap. I have the OT on DVD now so I can go back and watch how SW movies are supposed to be. I'll keep the faith untill Ep3, if GL screws that up...well, I can just look forward to the next 6 Harry Potter movies. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Handothrawn]

Thats the way the prequels are supposed to feel, everything is supposed to be shiny and nice, because after the prequels the main places we are shown belong to the hodge-podge militia bases of the Rebels, if they'd shown us Coruscant in the OT, it would porbably have looked alot like it did in the prequels.

But this is just my opinion.

[Shoma Barad]

Ferris, that was one of the most rational, well-thought-out and well-presented anti-TPM opinions ever presented on ANY message board I've ever visited. Well done!

When I watch TPM, I'm into it because its Star Wars. However, I do think GL didn't make the most of the potential that is within the universe he created.

AOTC was set 10 years after TPM- why? To seperate it as much as possible from what took place in TPM. It's obvious that even Lucas knew he'd botched it. So now, he has to tell 3 films worth of Story in Two films. I can hear the "Doh!" from here...

The digital effects I love. I'm very big on things looking realistic. I cringe when I see the Rancor in Jedi, or watch the assault on the Death Star in ANH.

But I think the aliens etc should be masks and makeup. I hate Dexter Jettster more than Jar Jar (I LOVE Jar Jar.. sue me).

Doh.. I'm talking about 2 aren't I.. lol

TPM IS a flawed film. There's no denying that. But, for me, seeing TPM was apivotal moment- it made me remember Star Wars, and how much I'd loved it growing up. It made me rediscover that wonder and fascination that had been missing within me for so long.

Things bug me about it. THe assault on the control Ship. Amidala. The distinct lack of Jedi. Using Tatooine for a full 3rd of the film instead of a planet/planets i'd never been to before. Most of all, as anyone who has heard me talk about this film before will know, I HATED Anakin/Jake Loyyd.

BUT, I can still watch TPM, and I can still enjoy it. I fast-forward parts occasionally, but I can watch it. I think all SW fans can find one thing in TPM they didn't like.

But funnily enough, I think I could find more things in ANH, Empire or Jedi.

Anyway, one last thing I just realised that I wanted to thank you for, Ferris- your argument had NO Jar Jar bashing. I know it doesn't mean you love him- but bashing Jar Jar is a very fan-boy thing to do, so KUDOS for not going there style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

~~Shoma

[FerrisWiel]

Shoma,

It's obvious that we respectfully disagree (given my track record, I think it's a first). But, differing opinions are what make markets.

It wasn't the digital effects that made me cringe so much as just the glossy feel of everything. It lacked realism. No grit. Everything looked like it was in a movie. It was as if nobody had lived there, they just showed up, acted and then left.

No fan of Return of the Jedi am I. The rancor scene was unpleasant. The assault on the second Death Star had some of the best space combat sequences in the history of film, though. A New Hope was different. It was the first film ever to use cameras that moved around objects, making for greater mobility. Practical miniatures gained credibility heretofore unheard of, so, while the sequence was not up to today's (or even 1983's) standards, it was revolutionary and had the feel of a real battle.

Once again, though. My primary focus comes to plot and movement, story and meaning. The Phantom Menace is lacking this on many levels.

I can watch The Empire Stikes Back a host of times and still revel in seeing Han and Leia fall in love, the Millenium Falcon break down, Vader wipe out the lionshare of his officers and Lando betray the heroes. There were twists and turns, hidden identities and foes. Luke had to deal with loss: of his friends and compatriots in Rogue Squadron, of his hand, of the woman he loved and of his innocence. This is storytelling. The special effects were the icing on the cake.

As for Jar Jar, why beat a dead horse (gungan)? Take care, though, he won't be spared my ire in my viewing of Attack of the Clones.

--Ferris Wiel

[Javen]

Wow, you guys are bitter and need some therapy.

[Justin]

Ferris, you are overly-critical. There were a lot of things I disliked about TPM, but you're really nitpicking.

I went to the film several more times in the theater. I bought the film on VHS.

You obviously liked the movie, even if there was a lot of it you didn't like about it. If you really hated it so much, you wouldn't have seen it more than twice, or purchased the video. So don't be all "it's the most horrible movie I've ever seen."

And really, the only problem with ROTJ is the Ewoks. Other than that it was a good movie.

[bodhisattva yoda]

it's my theory that all that fanboy excitement over the phantom menace was actually just a cover for skepticism. watch the film about twenty times. with every sitting you'll probably feel less and less jaded and learn to appreciate it for what it is. one of the film's major strengths is its sheer watchability. i personally enjoy the film more with each viewing, mainly for the visuals (not just visual effects but set and costum design, cinematography, etcetera) and the music, which is old george's intent, really.

[FerrisWiel]

Justin and bodhisattva yoda,

Repeated viewings made the film worse. I bought the film believing that it would get better. It didn't. I have watched it since purchase exactly two times. Once when I first purchased it and again when I thought it would improve with some time and a better perspective having seen AOTC. It wasn't good the first time. It's worse now.

Yes, I hate the film. My problem is that I am a completist and a presently begrudging fan of the original trilogy.

George himself in multiple interviews has stated how he fancies himself a modern Aesop or Grimm Brother. He says that he created the series with the intent of bringing back the art of storytelling. TPM is the antithesis of storytelling.

Special effects mean nothing to me. Score means nothing to me. Costumes, et cetera mean nothing. The cinematography in a film where scope is added with a mouseclick means that the director doesn't have to have skill, just a good programmer.

Classic Star Wars was a phenomena. This means when the first new film in twenty years was released I saw it several times in an attempt to grab any missed points, to find the inside jokes and to probe more deeply for the hidden layers that existed in the prior films. TPM had no layers. It was spread bare in one viewing. I returned in an attempt to dissect it: It couldn't be that the master storyteller himself couldn't write a story. It was preposterous. Yet it was also true.

Don't attempt to psychoanalyze me or contradict me on what my thoughts and feelings are. I'm attempting to be honest and non-threatening, attempting to allow those who like the prequel trilogy and The Phantom Menace to know what goes on in the head of a non-fan, then I'm told to get over it and get over myself. I just want to promote understanding and open a dialogue.

I thought I had laid all this out subtly in my original text, though. Apparently, it couldn't hold the attention of the audience. I failed, just as I believe Lucas has.

--Ferris Wiel

[Trilogist]

Star Wars plays out like a myth, TPM especially so. These are tales of heroic deeds, of great battles between giants of the past. Of course some of the plot elements seem coincidental and fantastic, but so does any ancient Greek myth, so do the Arthurian legends.

And if special effects mean nothing to you, then things looking "too CGI" or fake, or whatever, shouldn't bother you.

But I do appreciate your points, you have carried over your concerns in a civil discussion about the prequels. I don't think you failed, you just didn't convince everybody.

[FerrisWiel]

It is easy to forgive ancient myth because the storytelling techniques weren't devloped in the fashion they are now. The stories didn't have much dialogue, plot advanced with little questioning of the "fantastic" and the works were just that, fantasy.

Star Wars has a fine line to walk, but it is not an impossible one. It has to walk between suspended reality of science fiction with the surreality (if that's even a word) of fantasy. The Matrix had this line to walk, the modern mythology, and it succeeded - not only in effects but most importantly in story. The Phantom Menace failed in story. Unexplained coincidences in science fiction are weak writing, not great myth.

Perhaps I should have qualified the importance of the superficial elements rather than denying them outright. I can have poor score, poor special effects (or none at all), poor costumes and masks. These are second tier to the actual plot, the execution, the dialogue and the acting. If a movie gives me the chance to pick apart those elements during my first viewing, then the plot is not engaging.

Evil Dead, for all of its obviously fake blood and latex, is still a superior film to Thirteen Ghosts and Resident Evil. The same goes for $23,000 Clerks with its static camera, drab locales and monochromatic stock, when compared to multi-million dollar Town and Country slicked and glitzed with beautiful locations and "better" cinematography.

The Phantom Menace does not impress on any level in my eyes - story or special effects.

As I've said before, Liam Neesen can read the ingredients from a box of cereal with conviction, so I refuse to count his performance as some redeeming quality of the film itself.

--Ferris Wiel

[Shoma Barad]

Originally posted by FerrisWiel@Nov 10 2002, 03:49 PM
The same goes for $23,000 Clerks with its static camera, drab locales and monochromatic stock, when compared to multi-million dollar Town and Country slicked and glitzed with beautiful locations and "better" cinematography.

The Phantom Menace does not impress on any level in my eyes - story or special effects.

--Ferris Wiel
These are the points I want to pick up on.

Clerks is one of my all time favourite movies. Kevin SMith, for me, is one of the best story tellers alive today. His writing, both in film and comics, is second to none, IMHO. Maybe Lucas should collaborate with KS on III.. lol. And it is superior to other films that are similar- it isn't the camera work or cinematography or special effects- it's simply the story and the dialogue that make it a great film.

TPM, in that regard, was inferior to the the OT. So was AOTC- but AOTC is far closer to what we expect from GL (the love story was terrible though.. sorry all). The dialogue was clumsy and with the exception of a 4-5 characters, poorly delivered. The two most guilty? Portman and Loyyd. Any long speeches from these two, and my fast forward button is hammered.

The Phantom Menace's effects DO impress me. The huge panoramic shot of the battle field on Naboo, with the Gungans and the Driods forming ranks was awesome to see. It gave a sense of enormous SCALE, something lacking from the OT, particularly ANH (admittedly, due to technological limitations).

That being said, that shot would have been better used in AOTC, with the Clones lining up rather than Gungans. That would have made more sense to me.

Alot of what takes place in TPM we could have done without. The assault on the control ship bugs me- it was too un-original... death star 3, almost.

I like the film. I enjoy watching it for the most part. I guess its safe to say I'm a fan of it. But it isn't perfect. As Watto (one of my favourite TPM characters, and I think the best CG character of the lot) would say, "Not by a long Shot!"

~~Shoma

[RollaFett]

Clerks is one of my all time favourite movies. Kevin SMith, for me, is one of the best story tellers alive today. His writing, both in film and comics, is second to none, IMHO. Maybe Lucas should collaborate with KS on III.. lol.

First off, I agree with your assesment of Kevin Smith. Secondly, I have to ask why 'lol' after suggesting that GL should collaberate with him for EPIII? I think that is an outstanding idea! Hell, he needs some outside influence on the screenplay, IMO. Anyone remember Lawrence Kasden? And don't give me Jonathan Hales, either. Someone recently said on these boards that was a 'yes-man' for GL, and I whole-heartedly agree.

[Krogenar]

Quoted from Ferris

Yes, I hate the film. My problem is that ...

Well, if you hate the film, you sound biased to me. I've repeatedly asked you to point out any ONE scene of the PT that was done well. You've never answered that question. That leaves two possibilities. Either every scene, every frame of the film is a failure in your eyes - which would make you rabidly, senselessly antagonistic to the films - and not the cool, analytical film student you pretend to be. I find it hard to believe that nothing was done right in those films. In sum you can deem the film a failure - but every scene?

Or, maybe you don't want to answer my question because you enjoy ranting about the PT more than the 'open discussion' you're claiming to provoke.

You will doubtless argue that you don't have to answer my question. You don't. But for someone who so vocally trumpets their own opinion, you could answer my single, small question.

Special effects mean nothing to me. Score means nothing to me. Costumes, et cetera mean nothing. The cinematography in a film where scope is added with a mouseclick means that the director doesn't have to have skill, just a good programmer.

So you can subsist on pure plot alone? (sends Ferris tickets to 'The Vagina Monologues' and 'Our Town') The fact is, these elements that mean nothing to you, mean a lot to directors who care about their craft. The score, cinematography and costuming set the stage for the plot. If there is no plot to move forward, these elements are not completely wasted. They still transport the audience to the proper place. Also, your dig against 'point-and-click' film-making also smacks of elitism. Those same digital editing advances that you turn your nose up at have allowed many amateur directors to make the movies they would otherwise been unable to produce. Should film-makers not take advantage of existing technology for the sake of your delicate sensibilities?

I'm attempting to be honest and non-threatening, attempting to allow those who like the prequel trilogy and The Phantom Menace to know what goes on in the head of a non-fan, then I'm told to get over it and get over myself. I just want to promote understanding and open a dialogue.

More arrogance. Thank you, Ferris, for being an ambassador of non-fans to all the maniacal 'fan-boys' of this forum. We were able to tear ourselves away from our 'circle jerking' as you so glibly stated it (in an earlier post), in order to hear your message from the real world. Thank you for a glimpse into the mind of a non-fan. It's like I've stepped out into the dappled sunlight of a whole new world!

I thought I had laid all this out subtly in my original text, though. Apparently, it couldn't hold the attention of the audience. I failed, just as I believe Lucas has.
--Ferris Wiel

It's wisest to blame the audience when you haven't swayed them. I remain convinced, Ferris, that your real intent here on this Forum is to generate flames - or if nothing else, to inflate your own gargantuan ego by tearing at someone else's movies for not living up to your expectations.

[FerrisWiel]

Golla Fett,

I'm in your camp about Kevin Smith, if there's a man with appreciation for the OT it is the ultimate fan: Kevin Smith.

I have also mentioned I'd like to have seen M. Night Shyamalan attempt a Star Wars film, or at least provide a treatment.

--Ferris Wiel

[Justin]

Beuller, for you to say that musical score and costumes mean nothing, you're proving you don't know jack about movie making.

You couldn't make a better movie than Phantom Menace (which is by no means great) if you had all the money in the world and your life depended on it.

I don't hate you because you dislike the prequels, I hate you because you're arrogant, condescending, insulting, and a complete poser, pretending you know all about the art of filmmaking, when you know nothing about it other than what you like and don't like.

You can say you don't like the movies and why, but don't pesume to tell other people that their views are invalid because they don't agree with you, and don't pretend to be an authority of filmmaking, because you know very little about their construction.

[Siamese Sith]

I thought I had laid all this out subtly in my original text, though.
Concisely, not subtly, and MUCH less berating than usual. I give a flame-free response and I get....
Apparently, it couldn't hold the attention of the audience. I failed, just as I believe Lucas has.
You are a funny little man, and I use that term VERY loosely. Your little comment about us "fanboys circlejerking each other" was completely F"N rude and uncaled for. So, I will make every effort to ruin every single thread you open by bringing up your favorite ROTJ star MON MOTHMA. You've been here about a month and have more useless threads than some long time veterans! Krogenar is absolutely right about your gargantuan ego.
PLEASE, when you make your own space opera saga send me tix, I gotta see what you and your infinate cinematic wisdom can create.

[Justin]

PLEASE, when you make your own space opera saga send me tix, I gotta see what you and your infinate cinematic wisdom can create.

High five.

[Das_Funked]

I agree with almost everything FerrisWiel stated.

I also hate TPM, but that doesn't mean I hate the other movies, nad just because I enjoy the other movies doesn't mean I have to enjoy TPM. TPM was one of the worst movies of 1999. GL absolutley failed with it. He can't direct, his script was feeble, and he couldn't get decent performances out of the actors, even though he had quite a good cast. And then there is the simple fact that it was just a terrible story.

Krogenar - You are being everything you just accused FerrisWiel of being. Get off your high horse and instead of insulting him why don't you debate him and get you opinions across, because reading your rant above I couldn't find any.

[MegoHulk]

Qouted by Krogenar:
Those same digital editing advances that you turn your nose up at have allowed many amateur directors to make the movies they would otherwise been unable to produce. Should film-makers not take advantage of existing technology for the sake of your delicate sensibilities?


But GL is not an amateur, or is he? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif But seriously...I think the point Ferris was trying to make is that sure, you can have all the pretty pictures you want but if theres no story to back it up , then you might as well just be watching a 120 million dollar slide show. TPM was like eating a donut...sure it's sweet and tasty but ultimatly it doesn't leave you full and satisfied.

[Shoma Barad]

YES! Exactly like eating a donut!!! lol.. that is THE best analogy for the film I've ever heard! Kudos to you, Hulk! lol

It doesn't have the same FULLNESS of the OT films- AOTC was alot more full than TPM, but it still wasn't quite there. It may be because I haven't seen TPM nearly as many times as I have seen Empire, Jedi, or ANH, but the layers aren't in it- sure, it raises questions- what are midichlorians (ugh), why are all the ships sleek, is sidious palpatine etc.. but nothing like the questions from the OT.

The depth was missing- instead of a 12 course meal like ESB, we got a donut:P. And it isn't because GL didn't do what I wanted him to do- i went in with little or no expectations at all, the first time I saw it. It's because by comparison with the first two films of the saga (ANH and ESB), it just isn't up to the same standard of story telling.

Amidala could've died, and It wouldn't have bothered me. Heck, ANAKIN could've bought the farm, and I would've been a little concerned, but not overly. Naboo could've exploded, and It wouldn't have fazed me the same way Alderaan exploding did. the characters werén't as likable for me- except for Jar Jar, the Jedi, and the only other really familiar face in the film- Palpatine.

Ferris was making intelligent arguments, and was voicing his opinions civilly. Then people came out of no-where and began flaming to your hearts content. I've been seeing more and more of that on these boards lately, and more often than not it's the same faces popping up.

We were discussing why/why we don't think TPM was a good film. We weren't discussing how much one person knows about film making compared to everyone else. Read the first four or five posts of this thread- thats what I want to get back to. I'm not trying to sound all high and mighty here- i just wish people would stop being antagonistic, and could settle down for some discussion, instead of fighting.

And Ferris, Kudos to you for not responding to them all yet. My recommendation is- don't.

~~Shoma

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by MegoHulk@Nov 11 2002, 02:12 AM
Qouted by Krogenar:
Those same digital editing advances that you turn your nose up at have allowed many amateur directors to make the movies they would otherwise been unable to produce. Should film-makers not take advantage of existing technology for the sake of your delicate sensibilities?


But GL is not an amateur, or is he? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif But seriously...I think the point Ferris was trying to make is that sure, you can have all the pretty pictures you want but if theres no story to back it up , then you might as well just be watching a 120 million dollar slide show. TPM was like eating a donut...sure it's sweet and tasty but ultimatly it doesn't leave you full and satisfied.
Well said MegoHulk. If you want to say that TPM and AOTC were like 'donuts' - frosty and tasty but not providing much real nourishment (i.e. plot!) - then I'm in relative agreement with you.

Donuts are tasty and sweet, and some are freshly baked. Eating them won't make you look like Charles Atlas, but they will make you smile. Your analogy sheds light on my point: The PT films may not be as fulfilling as say, an English Muffin (those nooks and crannies really hold the butter!) but they do have some redeeming value.

Ferris isn't claiming that the PT films are equivalent to 'donuts' - he's stating that they are completely inedible. That's a strong statement. Though I've asked Ferris numerous times to concede that point, he's refused. He's refused because he's just here to flame and vent, not to discuss. A rational discussion of the films would include some discussion of the films' good points, however faint they may be.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by dasfunked@Nov 11 2002, 01:26 AM
I agree with almost everything FerrisWiel stated.
Almost? Where did you disagree with him, or me for that matter? Let's discuss it.

[Martini]

wow, alot of hate here style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

look, i watched the end of TPM over the weekend, and i realized that it isnt the best there is. and everyone hates it more cause it leaves us with nothing. just like ANH did. GL could have just made those movies as stand-alones and they would be fine. but everyone *****es about TPM cause they are wanting more and need to know more. if we knew what happened by the end of ROTJ, then we would have been pissed off about seeing ANH.

the thing about TPM, is it serves no purpose. i only get out of it is where anakin comes from, why obi-wan trains him, where the mother of the twins comes in, and i guess how the trade federation will be replaced by the Empire (sorta).

I just think GL should have started this trilogy out with AOTC. all well. he "can" and i repeat "can" make up for it in EP3 cause it will answer everyones questions and he can please everyone with space battles, lightsabers and a suited darth vader

[Martini]

Ferris, do you have a similar paper written about AOTC? id like to read it. so if you do, post it here.

and Ferris, i think most of your agruments in ROTJ and TPM are really weak. especially ROTJ, so many people love that movie. it works so well and is happy. thats all what matters. and vader is cool in it but not the best since he is turning back to the good

[Martini]

also, i see how you like The Matrix. yes its one of the best films ever. BUT!!! and i say BUT....its exactly like ANH. it can be left alone as a stand-alone movie. or it can be made into a trilogy, which it is doing. and it can also have prequels. my roommates and i thought we'd like to see a prequel to the 1st matrix movie. and once again, people like you guys would ***** and complain about it. and why? cause you'd be left empty holes in the plot. course that sucks. thats why TPM sucked cause there was 5 hours of film in the trilogy that i hadnt seen yet.

lastly, i stil think this trilogy would be better if GL pulled a Lord of the Rings move and put all 3 out in 3 years.

(btw, if you hate ROTJ so much, why do you have one of its character as your avatar? hmmm)

[FerrisWiel]

In my plot point-by-plot point analysis that started off this thread about TPM I cited what I liked - very little, but it was there - about TPM.

Later, when challenged about my blanket dismissal of effects, score and costumes I did grudgingly cede those points as important secondary qualities.

TPM wasn't like a donut for me. Dude, Where's My Car was a donut, as was Mallrats, as were any Die Hard movies. These films were either very funny and/or thrilling (in Die Hard's case, both), they were an escape that allowed you to turn your brain off and nothing more was expected. I can forgive Dude because it did exactly what it was supposed to, Mallrats I struggle with a little more because of Clerks, but the dialogue was very funny and Brodie carried the film. Die Hard was just a romp, as were the sequels.

In TPM there was no wild ride because there was no palpable danger until the battle with Darth Maul. The humor wasn't funny. The film had an identity crisis.

Yeah, it had "purty pitchers" but I can get that from digitalblasphemy.com or by purchasing a coffee-table book. Filmmaking is an amalgamation of three different elements - sound, image and most importantly the stage. It failed on the last front and from George Lucas any mis-steps on the first two is solely a lack of planning or vision because he has virtually limitless stores of capital to make films from.

In filmmaking - with great power comes great responsibility.

--Ferris Wiel

[Martini]

theres nothing wrong with CGI old-timer. its new and you have to move forward with technology. if not, things become bland and boring.

[Krogenar]

You raised a lot of good points Martini!

wow, alot of hate here style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

We don't hate anyone here. But we do disagree very strongly about the nature of the criticism. I don't hate a single person on this board. Your next comment was important too. I italicized the critical point.

but everyone *****es about TPM cause they are wanting more and need to know more. if we knew what happened by the end of ROTJ, then we would have been pissed off about seeing ANH.

I think we expected too much of these films. Were they perfect? Clearly not. Do they deserve to be trashed as garbage? Also, no.

the thing about TPM, is it serves no purpose. i only get out of it is where anakin comes from, why obi-wan trains him, where the mother of the twins comes in, and i guess how the trade federation will be replaced by the Empire (sorta).

Actually, if you re-read your quote above, you'll see that the most critical parts of the story have been met by the movie. How skillfully these point were delivered is open to debate. But the points were made, so the plot did move forward.

I just think GL should have started this trilogy out with AOTC. all well. he "can" and i repeat "can" make up for it in EP3 cause it will answer everyones questions and he can please everyone with space battles, lightsabers and a suited darth vader

Answering everyone's questions might be too great a task for any filmmaker. No film series in history has ever matched the fan base of the Star Wars films. There will always be someone else out there who has just _one_ more question. As for space battles, etc. that goes back to my earlier posts: the 'spectacle' of the SW films are what really draw people.

[FerrisWiel]

Martini,

I've never said I disliked the use of CGI. I think it makes films possible that never were before. What I don't like is the abuse of CGI and this clearly is what GL does.

I would say that he should have perhaps made a few "test films" before he made TPM. Practice with a few effects-heavy sci-fi fare pictures in order to get back into writing and directing. Lucas was unfamiliar with the audience and thought that by filling the film to brimming with eye-candy he could please them.

It didn't please me, but I'm not the average movie-goer. I liked Surf Ninjas and if that isn't an indemnification of my taste, I don't know what is.

--Ferris Wiel

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by FerrisWiel@Nov 11 2002, 02:19 PM
Martini,

I've never said I disliked the use of CGI. I think it makes films possible that never were before. What I don't like is the abuse of CGI and this clearly is what GL does.

I would say that he should have perhaps made a few "test films" before he made TPM. Practice with a few effects-heavy sci-fi fare pictures in order to get back into writing and directing. Lucas was unfamiliar with the audience and thought that by filling the film to brimming with eye-candy he could please them.

It didn't please me, but I'm not the average movie-goer. I liked Surf Ninjas and if that isn't an indemnification of my taste, I don't know what is.

--Ferris Wiel
I think what happened to you Ferris, was that you were so angered by the plot deficiencies, that you saw every beautiful frame of the movie as an excuse for not having a plot. I think GL has tried to use the best technology possible for each of his movies. Anything less would be a shock. How exactly did GL 'abuse' the use of CGI in the PT films, Ferris? Did he use them too much? Or did the lack of a plot (in your opinion) sour you on every aspect of the film?

The very 'clean' CGI look of the PT films took me aback as well. No more furry, rubber Muppets. Instead we had Jar Jar Binks. But I don't think that was the movie's fault, or the director's fault. It was my fault. When Star Wars came out when I was a boy, there were numerous movies explaining how the film was made. It was a point of pride for me, at that age, to learn the green screen techniques they used, and the models, etc. Previous to the advent of SW, there wasn't such an interest in 'special effects'.

I'm more experienced now. When I see the film (or any film for that matter) I don't just see the film as entertainment: I try to see the brush strokes. I could tell that Liam Neeson had to act against an empty area of space! There was no other actor for him to work with, he just had to imagine this faggy, Rastafarian retard, and act into empty space. And it made me laugh!

But it didn't make me hate the movie. Eventually I slipped back into my suspension of disbelief, and just ate my popcorn.

[Jedi D'oh]

I personally don't get all the harsh critisism. I admit that TPM is slow and not my favorite SW movie. I've never lost sight of the child in me that loved SW in the first place. That may be why I enjoyed both these prequels. Sure there was alot of CGI in them, If this stuff was around when ANH was made, It would have been a better movie. The fact that he used ILM and his companies to create these effects until HE was satisfied that it met his imagination says alot. He could have just capitalized on the name and created SW movies at any time. He thought if he waited to expand his vision it would please the fans. I guess he was wrong. Not to me though.

I watched TPM with my son this weekend. He is 4. I was excited to see his reaction as I am showing them to him in order. He really liked TPM and will see AOTC when I get it tomorrow. Seeing it from his point of view, he knows nothing else but this one and was completely happy.

[FerrisWiel]

Ah, Krog, but did you like Surf Ninjas?

Jar jar looked like an amphibious creature, yes, complete with rubbery skin. But I sincerely hope that the effects in this film were intended as a buyout of the audience. I hope that he thought he could skimp on the plot and the dialogue because the effects would be good. Of course, I'm hoping this was the case in AOTC, too.

The effects being good in a Lucasfilm is no longer a wonder, it's an expectation. AOTC will be hearing about this.

If it isn't the case that Lucas sought to buy out the audience with special effects, though, he really is out of touch.

I realize that Neesen (who I like) was acting against a bluescreen at points in TPM but interaction between the physical actors in this film was at many points horrible. Excepting Neesen.

--Ferris Wiel

[Martini]

the dialogue and acting in ANH, ESB, and ROTJ were poor too.

i think the only bad parts is the "yippie" when he blows up the trade federation ship and in AOTC with the love stuff.......BUT the love scenes were a must. it is important for the overall saga

[FerrisWiel]

The acting in ESB and ANH were not "poor." There were a few weak scenes involving Hamill in ANH, but he was strong during the rest. Ford, Guinness, Cushing, the folks who played Owen and Beru were excellent, Fisher did well and the council of Admirals in ANH were believable. In ESB, the entirety of the Executor bridge were great, as were the ground troops. The extras didn't simply mill around in these films, either, they looked like they had real goals when they moved.

Mind you, they weren't Olivier, but by the standards of popcorn films (and in direct contrast to TPM and AOTC) the acting was superb.

In my very angry and very controversial "Jake Lloyd" thread, I covered Lloyd, refraining from discussing Portman's crimes against the audience and if I ever get around to finishing my AOTC "stream of consciousness" review, I'll have pretty harsh criticism for almost the whole cast.

--Ferris Wiel

[Siamese Sith]

I would say that he should have perhaps made a few "test films" before he made TPM. Practice with a few effects-heavy sci-fi fare pictures in order to get back into writing and directing.

I believe that The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles were his "test films". Yes they weren't "effects-heavy sci-fi fare" but he used them as a warm up.

Lucas was unfamiliar with the audience and thought that by filling the film to brimming with eye-candy he could please them.

I personally don't mind the eye candy, it helps add to the fantasticness (not a real word) of the fiction.

It didn't please me, but I'm not the average movie-goer.
How would you describe the "average movie-goer? What classification movie-goer are you?

I liked Surf Ninjas and if that isn't an indemnification of my taste, I don't know what is.
Ever see The Crippled Masters ? WOW now that is plot heavy!

[FerrisWiel]

I have weird tastes. The following are in my collection:

Zero Effect
The Majestic
Gross Pointe Blank
High Fidelity
Dead Pet
The Brady Bunch Movie
Get Over It
Drop Dead Gorgeous
Army of Darkness
Mallrats
Dogma
Spiderman
Dude, Where's My Car
Project A
The Philadelphia Story


I also have three copies of ANH, ESB (one pirated VHS transfer from back in 1986 with both on it, one 1990 re-release of each, and one THX remaster from 1995 of each - all Pan&Scan style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif), and ROTJ (1995 and 1990 re-releases) as well and a single, barely-used Pan&Scan copy of TPM.

My collection isn't very large, either. I only have a total of 50 DVDs and 150 VHS casettes (some overlapping).

--Ferris Wiel

[Javen]

Dude, Where's My Car

You have this movie in your collection and you say TPM isn't that good? Did you actually watch Dude Where's My Car?

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Jedi D'oh@Nov 11 2002, 02:43 PM
I personally don't get all the harsh critisism. I admit that TPM is slow and not my favorite SW movie. I've never lost sight of the child in me that loved SW in the first place. That may be why I enjoyed both these prequels. Sure there was alot of CGI in them, If this stuff was around when ANH was made, It would have been a better movie. The fact that he used ILM and his companies to create these effects until HE was satisfied that it met his imagination says alot. He could have just capitalized on the name and created SW movies at any time. He thought if he waited to expand his vision it would please the fans. I guess he was wrong. Not to me though.

I watched TPM with my son this weekend. He is 4. I was excited to see his reaction as I am showing them to him in order. He really liked TPM and will see AOTC when I get it tomorrow. Seeing it from his point of view, he knows nothing else but this one and was completely happy.
That is exactly what I was trying to say with my first response on this thread! Thankyou Jedi D'oh. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif All your criticism, Ferris, is your personal opinions, which is fine. But keep in mind GL didn't make these prequels strictly for you, and definately didn't make them as good as YOU and others think they could've been. So what, in the end they are just movies. If you (anyone who spends too much time complaining about the short comings of the PT) were expecting some profound revelation about the universe, or hoping to discover some evidence that "the force" exists you will never enjoy these films. Sorry :sigh:

[FerrisWiel]

Yes, Dude, Where's My Car, because it wasn't pretentious. It was just a stupid film about stupid guys doing stupid things with stupid subplots that all somehow got tied back up together at the end. Because the maker of the film didn't claim to be a philosopher or a great storyteller, just a guy with an idea and a camera...

...and there were lots of jiggling breasts.

--Ferris Wiel

[Martini]

oh yea, the acting in ESB was great ferris. your smoking man....how about this

"good, our first catch of the day."

[Siamese Sith]

Lucas got that one from the Gordons Fisherman commercial.

[FerrisWiel]

S. Sith,

The Force is probably my least favorite part about the SW films - it made things too easy. I preferred the swashbuckling, the Falcon and the Captain.

Of course I prefer Captain America and Batman to Superman and his ilk.

--F. Wiel

[Martini]

how can u like "dude wheres my car" "brady bunch movie" and "spiderman" wow those are 3 crap flicks. and you turn around and say TPM sucked. you on something dude

[Martini]

the force is what makes these movies so good. it allows only a few to have lightsabers (the best part of the movies)

[Javen]

Originally posted by Martini@Nov 11 2002, 04:30 PM
oh yea, the acting in ESB was great ferris. your smoking man....how about this

"good, our first catch of the day."
Since Martini, you and Ferris is such great Film and Acting experienced Veterans(had to use that word since today is Veterans Day) Anyway I would like you both to write, film and direct a movie and see what great acting and lines you guys have, so we can rip it apart piece by piece and nitpick it to death about every single, itty bitty tiny of a fraction of details.

[Martini]

its my right to complain. and its not my job to write and direct. thats GL's job, he signed up for it

[Jedi D'oh]

Complaining is different than cynacisim. You just hate everything unless it conforms to your standards.

[Martini]

why would i not hate something that i dont enjoy?

[Siamese Sith]

The Force is probably my least favorite part about the SW films - it made things too easy.

Isn't the idea of "the force" kinda the backbone of this saga?

I preferred the swashbuckling, the Falcon and the Captain.
Maybe you would prefere Battlestar Galactica or Buck Rodgers??
Of course I prefer Captain America and Batman to Superman and his ilk.
Captain America has gotta be the gayest super hero next to Aquaman! Batman (not Adam West or these craptastic new movies) the slightly off, nocturnal, merc was a great superhero. Till Hollywood got it's claws on it.
Superman was neato for it's time but he's been replaced by Neo and the like.

[Jedi D'oh]

I don't enjoy root canals. You don't hear me ***** about it every day.

[Siamese Sith]

??? What was I "*****in" about?

[Jedi D'oh]

Not you dude, sorry. Was responding to Martini.

Sorry for the confusion. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Siamese Sith]

No worries style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif I got a kick out of your little conversation with Bond about episodes 7-9. Jeez, i think starwars is like life support for some out there.

[FerrisWiel]

This contrarian nonsense is just getting ridiculous.

Yes, obviously what I say is MY OPINION. It has been since day one and will remain that way. I have come on carelessly strong about particular points and been rebuffed or forced to amend, but by and large I stand by them. I attempt, as is the case for people discussing and debating, to sway people to my opinion, while -at least of late- refraining from personal attack.

Initially, when I stated my opinions, albeit bluntly, I was insulted and shouted down. I responded in kind. I attempted to reform my ways and I was once again insulted and shouted down. I would guess that, unless I reform my ideas, I will be harangued until the end as I'm more vocal and dogmatic about my opinions, holding a larger post-per-day average than many who share my views. If it offends you that I say these things but I'm not actually insulting anyone on these boards - which I no longer do - then let me be and allow those who agree with me to live on in our shared miseries.

On these I will not bend, though: TPM was a waste of film, AOTC was thrown together and the acting in both were, painting in broad strokes, awful.

ANH, which had (again, in my opinion) a few degrees worse acting and writing than ESB (more because of the directing, comfort of the actors in their roles and the writer's talent and comfort with the universe) is in the top 10 or 25 of nearly every critic's list citing the best American films in history. TPM will never make that kind of list, nor will AOTC.

As has happened between Jedi D'oh and myself, let's live and let live. Jest and heated discussion of film facts, and even opinions is fine, but trashing an individual on the board is pointless.

By the way, where are the mods at when I'm getting crucified and my topics are getting overrun by pure antagonists?

--Ferris Wiel

[FerrisWiel]

Javen,

Roger Ebert and many film critics have never made or acted in films. Hey, I'm no expert. I just know what I like, what I don't like, and a helluva lot about George Lucas, having read and listened to his lies over the years.

I simply turn the guy's own words on him, comparing what he's said in interviews with the facts of what he's done and suddenly I'm branded as a rage-encrusted lunatic seeking to de-throne him from his now rotting heap of celluloid.

I come up with an alternative idea for Episode VI and it's heresy or "stupid" with no rhyme or reason as to why.

I give a run-down of what I thought the first time I watched TPM in order to promote understanding and I'm a hate-mongerer who needs "therapy."

All this hyper-driven apologism for Lucas' mega-budget, creative-lockdown turds is beyond comprehension. Why is it that when he feeds you crap and I point out that you're being fed crap that I'M the one who did something wrong?

--Ferris Wiel

[Siamese Sith]

Stop trying to "open our eyes" to the crap we're being fed by GL. We average movie goers can decide for our selves what we like and don't.

[FerrisWiel]

I'm "opening your eyes" to why people, particularly I, don't like it. All I'm doing is providing an opportunity for those more timid with similar views to agree with me and see that there are others out there who share their view. I'm simply "saying" that the films are crap, take it or leave it, but quit attacking me for doing so.

--Ferris Wiel

[Siamese Sith]

Whoa there cowboy! When have I attacked you?

[Krogenar]

Quoted from Ferris: (in bold)

This contrarian nonsense is just getting ridiculous.

I disagree! (that's a joke...) Seriously, though, I disagree. This thread has degenerated from a potential flame, into a more balanced review of the PT films. People have raised valid points, and expressed their expectations of the films. A little conflict is good for a forum. This thread wouldn't be interesting if we all just agreed completely with each other.

Yes, obviously what I say is MY OPINION. It has been since day one and will remain that way.

No one's expecting you to change your entire view of the films Ferris. My goal here is just to see if I can crack the veneer of cynicism, that carapace of disgust you seem to harbor towards these films. I've probably failed. But you haven't failed to express yourself to me. Many of your points were very well informed, and relevent: and I've said so. But I enjoy a good joust once in a while, so thank you. I don't think you started this thread just to hear everyone agree with you.

I have come on carelessly strong about particular points and been rebuffed or forced to amend, but by and large I stand by them.

So this discussion wasn't a waste. It take courage on both side of the table to admit that their opinions have changed, even if only a little. But as for your presentation of the facts, they seem very bitter, very angry. And that saps the strength from an otherwise very cogent argument. And you are entitled to your opinion.

I attempt, as is the case for people discussing and debating, to sway people to my opinion, while -at least of late- refraining from personal attack.

Who attacked you personally? I've tried (and maybe failed, I admit) to attack your cynicism, and not you personally. If I've offended you or hurt your feelings, you have my sincere apologies.

Initially, when I stated my opinions, albeit bluntly, I was insulted and shouted down. I responded in kind. I attempted to reform my ways and I was once again insulted and shouted down.

I don't think you were shouted down - really, I don't. I think people like myself challenged your ideas and your cynicism.

I would guess that, unless I reform my ideas, I will be harangued until the end as I'm more vocal and dogmatic about my opinions, holding a larger post-per-day average than many who share my views. If it offends you that I say these things but I'm not actually insulting anyone on these boards - which I no longer do - then let me be and allow those who agree with me to live on in our shared miseries.

You have the freedom to post your opinions anywhere on this forum - but that freedom doesn't allow you silence others. If you choose to make bold (or in your words, 'blunt') statements about the PT films, you should expect to be challenged.

On these I will not bend, though: TPM was a waste of film, AOTC was thrown together and the acting in both were, painting in broad strokes, awful.

Translated: You hated the PT films.
We all knew this a while back Ferris. Why try to explain your reasoning behind your dislike to everyone? So that people will just blindly agree with you? I give you credit for having the audacity to post such an opinion on a SW forum board - undoubtedly populated by people who adore all things SW. You've also had the courage to defend your views. Don't ruin it by whining at the end. This discussion was enlightening, in my opinion.

As has happened between Jedi D'oh and myself, let's live and let live. Jest and heated discussion of film facts, and even opinions is fine, but trashing an individual on the board is pointless. By the way, where are the mods at when I'm getting crucified and my topics are getting overrun by pure antagonists?
--Ferris Wiel

I think your attitude and your opinion were challenged. I have a lot of respect for you Ferris. Great thread so far. And not one mention of Mon Mothma.

As for Surf Nazi's, I haven't yet had the pleasure. My local video store was pushed out of business by a Blockbuster, and they don't carry those sorts of titles. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif I highly recommend The Crippled Masters (http://www.badmovies.org/movies/cripmasters/)to you - it's a scream! You'll laugh, and then feel like a rotten ******* for laughing. I also recommend 'Dead Alive' a zombie film. Very funny. Keep an eye out for the Irish Catholic Priest who uses kung-fu and declares: "I kick *ss for the LORD!" and proceeds to shatter zombie heads with his eagle claw maneuvers.

And now, an image from Crippled Masters.
http://www.badmovies.org/movies/cripmasters/cripmasters3.jpg

[FerrisWiel]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 10 2002, 11:54 PM
...I will make every effort to ruin every single thread you open...
Giddyup.

--Ferris Wiel

[FerrisWiel]

Krog,

Surf Ninjas...not the Troma flick (Surf Nazis Must Die), the Ernie Reyes Jr. (of TMNT II fame) flick. It has Leslie Nielsen and Rob Schneider and perhaps the dumbest dialogue ever. I still enjoy it because it doesn't pretend to be something it's not.

--Ferris Wiel

[Krogenar]

(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 10 2002, 11:54 PM
I thought I had laid all this out subtly in my original text, though.
Concisely, not subtly, and MUCH less berating than usual. I give a flame-free response and I get....
Apparently, it couldn't hold the attention of the audience. I failed, just as I believe Lucas has.
You are a funny little man, and I use that term VERY loosely. Your little comment about us "fanboys circlejerking each other" was completely F"N rude and uncaled for. So, I will make every effort to ruin every single thread you open by bringing up your favorite ROTJ star MON MOTHMA. You've been here about a month and have more useless threads than some long time veterans! Krogenar is absolutely right about your gargantuan ego.
PLEASE, when you make your own space opera saga send me tix, I gotta see what you and your infinate cinematic wisdom can create.
That did come off nastier than expected, sorry Ferris style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif

[Das_Funked]

Krog - The points I disagree with Ferris on is Dude, Where's My Car. That is the worst movie of the decade. Whoever made that should be shot in some dark woods somewhere and forgotten forever. Also, his remark about music in films. I feel that the music is an important aspect of movies and they make the movie alot better.

[Trilogist]

I just know what I like, what I don't like, and a helluva lot about George Lucas, having read and listened to his lies over the years.

I simply turn the guy's own words on him, comparing what he's said in interviews with the facts of what he's done and suddenly I'm branded as a rage-encrusted lunatic seeking to de-throne him from his now rotting heap of celluloid.

You know, there have been several references to this. You put way too much stock to what GL says in interviews. He's just being "Hollywood." Listen to any other producer, director, or actor hyping their new film or reminiscing about their older films. Hell, I just watched a bunch of BS from Spielberg and his cast about some of the magic behind E.T. They're just trying to add more magic, more lore, the feeling that it was destined, fate had a role, blah, blah. If you're going to attack GL for some half truth he said on TV, you might as well attack all of Hollywood including all your beloved films. You know, the ones you actually like.

Now for something new: I think ESB represents the exception to Lucas' work. I don't think he meant it to be as it was. Looking at the body of work that is Star Wars, it is high-flying adventure, it is fun, it is mainly for kids, and it happens to sell a lot of toys. ESB was probably entirely too serious for Lucas' liking, and today he explains that as it being 'the darker film, the second Act of a three Act play', etc. Now you and I will always love ESB because it was darker, more serious, better written, meant for an older audience. But you should have realized way back then, 20 years ago, that it was going to be the exception, not the rule.

Incidentally, I sense many of the fans pressing the panic button for this reason, that 2 of the films are out already, and we're still waiting for our reincarnation of ESB. Perhaps, if ROTJ followed right after ANH, with ESB waiting to conclude the saga, we would have felt similarly 20 years ago.

Do not despair, fellow Senators. Consider this: when Episode V hit the theaters, it represented the 'dark, middle act' of the Trilogy. Today, in the shadows between AOTC and the final chapter of the most profound adventure ever conceived, Episode III represents the middle, the dark climax, of The Star Wars. The entire body of work will be the story of Anakin Skywalker: rise, fall, redemption. No chapter will be darker, no point lower, than the period encompassed from Episode III to the the start of Episode IV, where we learn of a new hope.

Ferris, your ESB may very well be awaiting you in 2 years.

[Shoma Barad]

Wow... at one ponit it looked like we were getting back to intelligent debate... and then the ever-reliable "why dont you make a film" made yet another appearance.

We're talking about TPM, here. I know I can't change Ferris' mind, or anyone elses mind for that matter. But just as Ferris' goal was to show why HE didn't like TPM, I'm here to show why I DID like it. As I've said, I'm not naive enough to say it's a fantastic film. It isn't. I'm critical of it too. But I can still enjoy it.

Why can't we justify our own positions, instead of attacking everyone elses?

~~Shoma

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by dasfunked@Nov 11 2002, 09:23 PM
Krog - The points I disagree with Ferris on is Dude, Where's My Car. That is the worst movie of the decade. Whoever made that should be shot in some dark woods somewhere and forgotten forever. Also, his remark about music in films. I feel that the music is an important aspect of movies and they make the movie alot better.
I havent's seen Dude, Where's My Car? but Ferris' statement does raise a critical issue: expectations. When he went into the theater to see that film, he did not expect to see a tightly written drama about two men seeking out a car. He probably went (like the other two guys who saw it) to see some stupid pranks and pratfalls - which it probably delivered.

Star Wars fans probably had very, very high expectations for the PT films, have waited for them so long. Like drug addicts trying to recapture that initial 'high', some of them hoped the PT would be as revolutionary as SW:ANH and ESB.

If you go into a movie expecting a light-hearted comedy, and instead end up with a tear-jerking chick flick, then yeah, you have a right to be upset. Ferris also pointed out that Lucas had a near infinite budget for the PT films - which he saw as a wasted opportunity. DWMC? will go down in cinema history as just another throwaway comedy.

As for music in films, I agree that music is important to a film - especially the Star Wars films.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith+Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Siamese Sith @ Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)

[Shoma Barad]

"Dude, what does mine say?"

"Sweet! What does mine say?"

"Dude, what does mine say?"

"Sweet! What does mine say?"

"Dude, what does mine say?"

"Sweet! What does mine say?"

"Dude, what does mine say?"

"Sweet! What does mine say?"

"Dude, what does mine say?"

"Sweet! What does mine say?"

"Dude, what does mine say?"

"Sweet! What does mine say?"

"Dude, what does mine say?"

"Sweet! What does mine say?"

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

~~Shoma

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Krogenar+Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Krogenar @ Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

[FerrisWiel]

If I knew how to do the hug thing, I would. Since I can't figure it out, I'll just point out that I hug like one of the "crippled masters."

Seriously. I'm glad we all got something out of this and I'm sorry for stepping on toes.

Here goes...http://www.galacticsenate.com/html/emoticons/grouphug.gif

Hey, it worked! ^_^

--Ferris Wiel

[FerrisWiel]

ps - Dude Where's My Car was funny, even if it was one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

I especially loved Brent Spiner as the frenchman.

--Ferris Wiel

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith+Nov 11 2002, 10:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Siamese Sith @ Nov 11 2002, 10:50 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

[FerrisWiel]

SS,

It's all right. Things get said in the heat of the moment.

--Ferris Wiel

http://www.galacticsenate.com/html/emoticons/grouphug.gif
"Aren't you glad you use Dial? Don't you wish everybody else did?"
-Dial Commerical, early '90's

[MegoHulk]

Good post Trilogist....I too am hoping like others here that EP3 will be the saving grace of the PT. I want to come away feeling satisfied that my faith and waiting has been justified. TPm was a let down...even if you liked the film , you have to admit it was a bit disappointing. AOTC was better (not including the romance) and I'm hoping EP3 will take all the good stuff and squeeze it into 2 and a half hours.

[StarWarsFan1]

I rember also when i was young i am almost 19 now but me and one of my best friends ever would sit on summer day and watch rotj ever day of the summer (at this time it was recorded off of tv) and the tape got used so much santa brought me it on the real verson, and for about two years or so from like i think 8-9 years me and my best friend (whos sn is teekman) would watch rtoj every day for many times i rember that and i get chills ever time i watch a star wars movie i still to this day wish i had a light saber and was able to use the "force" may be one day i will.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by FerrisWiel@Nov 12 2002, 12:52 AM
I especially loved Brent Spiner as the frenchman.


Stares at the statement above.
I think I may rent DWMC? after all.

Anyone here ever watch 'The A-Team'?
What a great show.
(hums the theme song)

In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.

This show had everything. It had Mr. T. (I pitah da foo!), Dirk Benedict, explosions, you name it! My favorite thing about the show was how mind numbingly formulaic it was. Every other episode ended with the 'bad guys' locking the heros up in some garage someplace, with every tool known to humanity inside. They would then announce that they would be 'coming inside' in just 3 hours! In that time, the 'A-Team' would construct some Rube Goldberg-type tank that would bust down the doors of the garage and begin firing heads of lettuce at the bad guys; with Mr. T. snarling at the helm.

Oh yeah, and no one ever gets hurt on the show, despite the fact that several thousand rounds of live ammunition are fired every few minutes. The bad guys always stand in front of oil barrels, which conveniently explode, knocking them to the floor and unconscious.

Luckily, the bullets don't penetrate flesh. Only oil barrels. Just stay away from oil barrels on that show, and you'd be pretty much invincible. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Oh yeah... we were talking about Star Wars. Sorry. :look:

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Trilogist@Nov 11 2002, 09:38 PM
Now for something new: I think ESB represents the exception to Lucas' work. I don't think he meant it to be as it was. Looking at the body of work that is Star Wars, it is high-flying adventure, it is fun, it is mainly for kids, and it happens to sell a lot of toys. ESB was probably entirely too serious for Lucas' liking, and today he explains that as it being 'the darker film, the second Act of a three Act play', etc. Now you and I will always love ESB because it was darker, more serious, better written, meant for an older audience. But you should have realized way back then, 20 years ago, that it was going to be the exception, not the rule.
Trilogist raised a great point there. I look forward to the grittier, more serious Star Wars plots, like in ESB. The heroes struggled to survive throughout that entire film, and I loved it.

I agree with Trilogist. The third episode is where the fit hits the shan. The wincingly cute, sincere, selfless little boy from TPM will become a hate-filled monster that ushers in a new age of darkness. This final episode should be the most plot-oriented of all the PT films.

Great post Trilogist.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Trilogist@Nov 11 2002, 09:38 PM
Now for something new: I think ESB represents the exception to Lucas' work. I don't think he meant it to be as it was. Looking at the body of work that is Star Wars, it is high-flying adventure, it is fun, it is mainly for kids, and it happens to sell a lot of toys. ESB was probably entirely too serious for Lucas' liking, and today he explains that as it being 'the darker film, the second Act of a three Act play', etc. Now you and I will always love ESB because it was darker, more serious, better written, meant for an older audience. But you should have realized way back then, 20 years ago, that it was going to be the exception, not the rule.
Trilogist raised a great point there. I look forward to the grittier, more serious Star Wars plots, like in ESB. The heroes struggled to survive throughout that entire film, and I loved it.

I agree with Trilogist. The third episode is where the fit hits the shan. The wincingly cute, sincere, selfless little boy from TPM will become a hate-filled monster that ushers in a new age of darkness. This final episode should be the most plot-oriented of all the PT films.

Great post Trilogist.

[Trilogist]

Thanks. And the A-Team was one of the greatest shows ever. I think despite all the great characters, Murdock's insanity always stole the show. However you should be aware that I STILL love it when a plan comes together. (see sig below)

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 12 2002, 08:04 AM
Anyone here ever watch 'The A-Team'?
What a great show.
(hums the theme song)

In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.

This show had everything. It had Mr. T. (I pitah da foo!), Dirk Benedict, explosions, you name it! My favorite thing about the show was how mind numbingly formulaic it was. Every other episode ended with the 'bad guys' locking the heros up in some garage someplace, with every tool known to humanity inside. They would then announce that they would be 'coming inside' in just 3 hours! In that time, the 'A-Team' would construct some Rube Goldberg-type tank that would bust down the doors of the garage and begin firing heads of lettuce at the bad guys; with Mr. T. snarling at the helm.

Oh yeah, and no one ever gets hurt on the show, despite the fact that several thousand rounds of live ammunition are fired every few minutes. The bad guys always stand in front of oil barrels, which conveniently explode, knocking them to the floor and unconscious.

Luckily, the bullets don't penetrate flesh. Only oil barrels. Just stay away from oil barrels on that show, and you'd be pretty much invincible. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Oh yeah... we were talking about Star Wars. Sorry. :look:
Knight Rider-A shadowy flight into the dangerous world
of a man who does not exist. Michael Knight-A young
loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent,
the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who
operate above the law.

Now that was a show! Guidos everywhere idolized Michael Knight and his gravity defying trans am. I'm not a guido I'm not even italian but I loved that show, I was like little Ralphy with his decoder ring! This show had everything PLUS a car that was equiped with turbo boost.....to get outta those sticky situations. AND Pac Man!

[StarWarsFan1]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith+Nov 12 2002, 07:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Siamese Sith @ Nov 12 2002, 07:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 12 2002, 08:04 AM


Anyone here ever watch 'The A-Team'?
What a great show.
(hums the theme song)

In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.

This show had everything. It had Mr. T. (I pitah da foo!), Dirk Benedict, explosions, you name it! My favorite thing about the show was how mind numbingly formulaic it was. Every other episode ended with the 'bad guys' locking the heros up in some garage someplace, with every tool known to humanity inside. They would then announce that they would be 'coming inside' in just 3 hours! In that time, the 'A-Team' would construct some Rube Goldberg-type tank that would bust down the doors of the garage and begin firing heads of lettuce at the bad guys; with Mr. T. snarling at the helm.

Oh yeah, and no one ever gets hurt on the show, despite the fact that several thousand rounds of live ammunition are fired every few minutes. The bad guys always stand in front of oil barrels, which conveniently explode, knocking them to the floor and unconscious.

Luckily, the bullets don't penetrate flesh. Only oil barrels. Just stay away from oil barrels on that show, and you'd be pretty much invincible. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Oh yeah... we were talking about Star Wars. Sorry. :look:
Knight Rider-A shadowy flight into the dangerous world
of a man who does not exist. Michael Knight-A young
loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent,
the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who
operate above the law.

Now that was a show! Guidos everywhere idolized Michael Knight and his gravity defying trans am. I'm not a guido I'm not even italian but I loved that show, I was like little Ralphy with his decoder ring! This show had everything PLUS a car that was equiped with turbo boost.....to get outta those sticky situations. AND Pac Man![/b][/quote]
I two watched that show that is number 2 on my list of great things

[FerrisWiel]

Somebody should start a TV nostalgia thread in the Gen Disc area - it would light up fast!

^_^

--Ferris Wiel

[sith happens]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith+Nov 12 2002, 12:01 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Siamese Sith @ Nov 12 2002, 12:01 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

[Shoma Barad]

Geez.. I almost wish people would start flaming again... this trip back to the 80's is making me nautious... lol

~~Shoma

[Siamese Sith]

TURBO BOOST Kit!!!!

[MegoHulk]

Ok..how about the 70's then...this might be before some of your time. "The Six Million Dollar Man"...remember that show? Steve Austin..the bionic man. He always ran in slow motion to potray how fast he was running...go figure. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Siamese Sith]

The CEO of my company makes over 5 million in annual salary alone! No....I don't work for Enron. $h!t he could own Steve Austin today.
Hey Mego you rememer the bionic woman.....the doc never thought about PMS that might explain why she kept breaking!
Was there a bionic family reunion??? Oh God I think there was!Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by MegoHulk@Nov 13 2002, 01:56 AM
Ok..how about the 70's then...this might be before some of your time. "The Six Million Dollar Man"...remember that show? Steve Austin..the bionic man. He always ran in slow motion to potray how fast he was running...go figure. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
Yeah! Steve Austin rocked! And they would put small circular trampolines just under the surface of the floor, so he could perform a bionic 'jump'. And that 'bionic sound' was pretty funny too.

Geh-geggeggeggeggeg
(Steve twists off an aluminum foil doorknob... Wow!)

Geh-geggeggeggeggeg
(Steve twists off a bottle cap in slow motion.)

Geh-geggeggeggeggeg
(Steve squeezes some woman's behind in a disco)

What about The Love Boat? My favorite was Isaac, the black bartender. (like that could ever happen in a sit-com again...) with his classic move of pointing his gun fingers at someone. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif This is a fun thread!

Oh yeah. Another style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif for Ferris.

[FerrisWiel]

I've started a thread:Classic TV Shows (http://www.galacticsenate.com/index.php?act=ST&f=19&t=2489)

Cheers.

--Ferris Wiel

[Trilogist]

Originally posted by sith happens+Nov 13 2002, 01:28 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sith happens @ Nov 13 2002, 01:28 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 12 2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

[Trilogist]

This could very well become the largest group hug ever! Pile on!!

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Trilogist+Nov 14 2002, 12:42 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Trilogist @ Nov 14 2002, 12:42 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by sith happens@Nov 13 2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 12 2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif[/b][/quote]
it's a fanboy circle jerk, ask ferris......... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

[Tovor]

Oh my God, it looks more like an orgy with more and more people joining in.

[FerrisWiel]

Jeez.

Enough with the...whatever...already.

--Ferris Wiel

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith+Nov 14 2002, 01:45 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Siamese Sith @ Nov 14 2002, 01:45 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Trilogist@Nov 14 2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by sith happens@Nov 13 2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 12 2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
it's a fanboy circle jerk, ask ferris......... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif .. yep. And there's Ferris inside it, trying to get out! *cackle*

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Shoma Barad@Nov 12 2002, 09:35 PM
Geez.. I almost wish people would start flaming again... this trip back to the 80's is making me nautious... lol

~~Shoma
Bah! No one was flaming Barad. We took a cynical, one-dimensional thread, made it peaceful with a massive circl- er, group hug, and shot off into a cheerful discussion of 70's/80's television shows.

In an attempt to keep it relatively on topic, what did you guys think of the TV series, 'V' - you know, with the friendly aliens that turn out to be lizards? I loved that show.

I also got a kick out of The Greatest American Hero. It's about a guy who is given a special superhero suit by aliens, that will give him super powers. But he loses the instruction manual. He spends most of the time flying around ass-first, like one of his suspension wires has been cut! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Shoma Barad]

Ewwwwwwww.... if I wanted over-sentimentality and nauseating cuteness, I'd go and watch ROTJ.... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

~~Shoma

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Krogenar+Nov 14 2002, 08:11 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Krogenar @ Nov 14 2002, 08:11 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 14 2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Trilogist@Nov 14 2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by sith happens@Nov 13 2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 12 2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
it's a fanboy circle jerk, ask ferris......... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif .. yep. And there's Ferris inside it, trying to get out! *cackle*[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

[Trilogist]

Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 14 2002, 01:21 PM
In an attempt to keep it relatively on topic, what did you guys think of the TV series, 'V' - you know, with the friendly aliens that turn out to be lizards? I loved that show.

I also got a kick out of The Greatest American Hero. It's about a guy who is given a special superhero suit by aliens, that will give him super powers. But he loses the instruction manual. He spends most of the time flying around ass-first, like one of his suspension wires has been cut! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
Yeah, I think Ferris created a thread for that already. Go check it out. I loved V, incidentally. I still consider myself part of the Resistance. As for that other show, didn't he find the suit in a trash can or something?

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Trilogist+Nov 14 2002, 10:52 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Trilogist @ Nov 14 2002, 10:52 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 14 2002, 01:21 PM
In an attempt to keep it relatively on topic, what did you guys think of the TV series, 'V' - you know, with the friendly aliens that turn out to be lizards? I loved that show.

I also got a kick out of The Greatest American Hero. It's about a guy who is given a special superhero suit by aliens, that will give him super powers. But he loses the instruction manual. He spends most of the time flying around ass-first, like one of his suspension wires has been cut! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
Yeah, I think Ferris created a thread for that already. Go check it out. I loved V, incidentally. I still consider myself part of the Resistance. As for that other show, didn't he find the suit in a trash can or something?[/b][/quote]
Actually Krogenar first brought up the whole eighties TV show subject before Ferris started a whole thread on it...eh.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Trilogist@Nov 14 2002, 11:52 PM
As for [The Greatest American Hero], didn't he find the suit in a trash can or something?
I seem to recall him being in the Arizona desert or something. Where the manual ended up... I don't know.
I think I started the discussion about old TV Shows, but alas, I did not create the new thread.

It was Ferris who saw the lack of interest in bashing the PT, and greater interest in talking about Mr. T. - and started a thread to provide people with that outlet.

Now we can all go back to griping! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif (wink)

[FerrisWiel]

Don't get me wrong. I find bashing the PT to be very therapeutic (and very right). I just thought classic TV would be better served in another thread.

--Ferris Wiel

[spaceman2386]

you know, we don't realy care what kind of fan you are. you do what ever you what. because <font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=red)'>we don't care</font>

[Javen]

hmmm...

[FerrisWiel]

Caring so little that I'm informed of how little anybody cares.

Yes.

Excellent.

--Ferris Wiel

[Javen]

Actually you are critical, because your a critical person.

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Siamese Sith+Nov 14 2002, 02:38 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Siamese Sith @ Nov 14 2002, 02:38 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 14 2002, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 14 2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Trilogist@Nov 14 2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by sith happens@Nov 13 2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 12 2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Siamese Sith@Nov 11 2002, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Krogenar@Nov 11 2002, 07:00 PM
(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don't do that. Group hug everyone.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

If you look very carefully, you can see Ferris in the center there, struggling to get free. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Siamese, you should hug Ferris for forgiveness. *snicker* C'mon. Group hug everyone.

As for Surf Ninjas.. no, I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an eye out for it.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif (hugs Ferris)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
it's a fanboy circle jerk, ask ferris......... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif .. yep. And there's Ferris inside it, trying to get out! *cackle*
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif time for another......

[FerrisWiel]

Correction:
I'm critical because I have a critical mind.

--Ferris Wiel

[Krogenar]

C'mon guys, be nice to Ferris. I'm serious.
Javen, Spaceman, give the guy a hug. Type a colon, then type 'grouphug' and then another colon.

We have a difference of opinion, but it doesn't have to be personal. As I see it, the PT films were generally good, maybe even great - despite some bad plot points and some bad acting.

The difference is that those same flaws (which we all basically agree upon) have caused others to write the films off as failures. That seems to be the crux of the issue.

Let's all be civil to one another.

[Jedi D'oh]

I agree. Ferris is not a bad guy. He doesn't like the PT. He has ideas that could be better than GL did. I for one enjoy the nonflaming way he posts. From what I've seen he only really went overboard once and apologized for it soon after. Besides myself, I've not seen anyone do that here. You are to be commended in my opinion, Ferris. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif

[Javen]

I'm not making anything personal Krogenar, I have not attcked him in anyway. I have in fact rarely spoken to him at all.

[Siamese Sith]

Originally posted by Krogenar@Nov 15 2002, 02:55 PM
C'mon guys, be nice to Ferris. I'm serious.
Javen, Spaceman, give the guy a hug. Type a colon, then type 'grouphug' and then another colon.

We have a difference of opinion, but it doesn't have to be personal. As I see it, the PT films were generally good, maybe even great - despite some bad plot points and some bad acting.

The difference is that those same flaws (which we all basically agree upon) have caused others to write the films off as failures. That seems to be the crux of the issue.

Let's all be civil to one another.
Hey Krogenar,

Ferris is a big boy he can speak for himself, you circle-jerkin fanboy.
The force is with you young Krogenar........but you are not a Mod yet!

[Javen]

Originally posted by Jedi D'oh@Nov 15 2002, 02:59 PM
I agree. Ferris is not a bad guy. He doesn't like the PT. He has ideas that could be better than GL did. I for one enjoy the nonflaming way he posts. From what I've seen he only really went overboard once and apologized for it soon after. Besides myself, I've not seen anyone do that here. You are to be commended in my opinion, Ferris. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif
Ideas better than GL? I doubt that, he likes

Dude, Wheres My Car for god sakes.

[Siamese Sith]

(reads Siamese's quote about ruining threads)

... hrm. :unhappy: That ain't so nice.
Don&#