The Obi-Wan Kenobi Thread

[darthmac]

Just pure speculation on my part here and it is not even a theory that I believe in, but , this boards are for this reason.

Over the course of the StarWars series we have always heard of how powerfull Vader/Anakin is. However, he seems to lose a lot. Dooku, Luke and Kenobi. I want to see him kick some ass. So, hopefully he will take out a few Jedi. If he does indeed lose to Kenobi, I hope that they have a second encounter in episode 3. If Kenobi knows who Vader is and Kenobi was indeed the one who sent him into the suit, they must of met twice. Kenobi didn't just here who was in the that suit through the grapevine. Maybe there was a second encounter where Vader gains the upper hand and lets Kenobi go after Kenobi tells of Luke but not Leia. Giving him the sabre to give to Luke. Telling him " Give this to my son when he is ready and do not come back Obi-Wan! " This showing some humanity left in Vader. By A New Hope he has been praticing the darkside for 20 years and just wants to get rid of Obi-Wan.

[Count Dooku]

How though? At this point Vader doesnt know anything about Luke, or Leia. If I'am correct. Oh I wander if he tell's Vader in Ep3? We'll have to wait but that'd be cool. I'd like to see Vader hand over his old lightsaber to Obi-Wan and tell him "Give this to Luke when he is ready". Lol that'd be pretty cool.

[JediBendu]

nah
Vader's searching the galaxy for Luke after he realises his existence after SW. 'The emperor knew, as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they'd be a threat to him. That is why you and your sister remain safely anonymous.'
There is a point though, Vader does say 'You should not have come back' - kind of implies the last encounter wasn't a duel, rather an altercation where Obi voluntarily leaves.

[Obidobi]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

In Knightfall Vader does let OB1 go so he could rethink his life and live with his failure to the republic.
Vader also tells him to get the hell out of the empire and never come back or else he would be destroyed. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

[DarthKueller]

Darth Vader "will" let Obi-Wan go in Ep. III.

[Downtown]

You were on the right track, until you mentioned Luke and Leia. I totally think they should fight twice, but wonder if a two hour movie could pull it off.
I believe Vader learned of Luke after his Death Star #1 encounter. He investigated (somehow through the force perhaps) "There is a tremor in the force" - Emperor "I have sensed it too my master (or something like that)" - Vader

[DarthAl]

Could somebody please tell me when Vader said, "you should not have come back" Was it aboard the Death Star in ANH??

If it was then we must also remember what Darth Told him, "When you left I was but a learner NOW iam the master!"

This tells me that if Obi and Anakin do fight Anakin would be the that gets his ass kicked. Why else would Vader say, "Now i am the Master!"????? :devil: :devil:

Also, could somebody tell me how you guys get those cool pictures under you log -in names when you send messages?????

[JediBendu]

Your Control Panel - Personal Settings - Avatar options.

We have to distinguish between Anakin and Darth. On the DS, after Vader says '...now I am the master' to which Obi replies 'Only a master of evil Darth'. This means that on their last encounter Vader had existed, had only been a learner [of the Dark Side] and that he left Obi. This could have been a fight which Vader was bettered, but did not loose.

[darthwicker]

After reading some of these posts, a few thoughts are swirling round my head.
Does anyone think it's possible that the death star we all know and love in ANH was the second death star and Ep III might show us an earlier version, maybe without the ability to destroy a planet?
Perhaps Obi1 is a prisoner there or has a confrontation of some kind with Anakin\Vader. Since Vader does say 'you should not have come back'.
I know he probably isn't refering to a place in general or is he?
I dunno. It's probably just a silly excited thought.

[BEARlyworking]

The thought of a possible early deathstar prototype has crossed my mind...mostly because of a thread I've read here.

Someone asked, given the prevalence of Naboo in Episodes I&II, why wasn't Naboo referenced in Episodes IV,V,or VI.

PERHAPS, an early version of the deathstar destroyed Naboo. The super-duper planetary destroyer laser had to be tested somewhere, right? But at the same time, everyone seems somewhat suprised by the sheer power of the deathstar in ANH.

thoughts?

[tunafishman]

I think when Vader tells Kenobi "You should not have come back" he means Kenobi should not have come out of hiding and back into the "Republic" (aka Empire). It's just a curt, artistic way of saying "You should have stayed in hiding where I couldn't find you to kill you because now I'm going to"

And I don't think that Naboo will get destroyed in Ep. III. The Death Star was both tested on Alderaan and used as an example for the "new" might of the Empire. Remember, the Senate is not dissolved until ANH, so the Empire still has no need to use a weapon like the Death Star on a system loyal to the Republic until ANH. The Empire doesn't really become the Empire until the Senate is dissolved.

[Martini]

Where in ANH does it ever mention the senate? Is that the small round table of about 10 or so admirals with vader standing behind them?

[tunafishman]

The first time we see Tarkin, he says something to the effect of "The Emperor has dissolved the Senate...the last reminants of the old Republic are now gone..blah blah blah" Something like that. Then one of the other guys at the round table asks "But how will we maintain control" and Tarkin says "The regional governors have direct control...Fear will keep systems in check...Fear of this space station and its power"

That's why they destory Alderaan, to use fear to keep people down. And that's why Naboo can't be destroyed - Alderaan is when they use totaliarian rather than democratic tactics to rule the galaxy.

[Darth_Cyberius]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.gif What Knightfall says about the final encounter between Vader and Obi-Wan makes sense to me, I think that he will banish him and tell him never to come back without telling the Emperor that he let him go

[Martini]

Hmmm, that sounds right even though i think you guys are crazy to believe anything that wasnt written by GL. But if you think about the line in ANH where Tarkin says something like "you are the last of their kind".....speaking about the jedis, i bet everyone thinks yoda is dead and only Vader knows Obi-Wan is alive cause he let him go. probably the only time in EPISODE III where he wont show the dark side.

[DanielSkywalker]

I think that Vader letting Kenobi go is a cool idea, but, I just hope it doesn't take away from the sheer evilness of Darth Vader. In EPIII, I want Anakin to be so evil that when he enters that blockade runner in ANH, everyone cringes because they know just what this guy is capable of.

[Martini]

Nah, it wont be bad if he lets him go. He sorta let Luke go in TESB. I'm sure when Luke jumped he could have used the force to pull him back up or something

[JediBendu]

'He is here'

'Obi-Wan Kenobi. What makes you think so?'

'A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the
presence of my old master.'

'Surely he must be dead by now.'

'Do not underestimate the power of the Force.'

'The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out.
You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.'


Tarkin knows he wasn't killed and just assumed he died of old age. Vader also seems surprised that he's shown up.

'You should not have come back' coupled with the above dialogue implies that Obi (with Yoda) fled from the Jedi persecutions. Vader just never found him while he was hunting Jedi

[sithlordrandy]

Will we see a total unleashing of Obi Wan's jedi ability in ep 3

[Justin]

I sure hope so. He's one of my favorite characters in the whole saga (behind Luke and Han), and I want to see him kick some ass.

[Obi-Stu]

I agree, Vader tells him that his powers are weak....Lets hope we see Obi-wan at his prime.

[Phantomised Menace]

Well he has to be, afterall he kicks the chosen ones' *ss style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

I do agree that it would be cool to see old Ben cut loose, but for some reason I hope he doesn't have "special" powers like lightning or some other kind of force blast. I like the force push, and the tossing around of objects, but I think a REALLY cool duel and fencing skills would be not only most exciting, but most appropriate. It's a little more fitting of Obi-wans personality.


At least I think so anyway.

[Jacen Solo]

I think we saw a pretty good display of his power when he battled Darth Maul. I don't think he's going to use his full power against Anakin, but ... I could be wrong.

[Jedi D'oh]

Remember, he did stop force lightning with his saber. Neat trick that.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Phantomised Menace@Nov 5 2002, 06:03 AM
Well he has to be, afterall he kicks the chosen ones' *ss :sly:
I've said this alot, but I seriously doubt that Obi-Wan is going to kick Vader's ass in Episode 3.

Anakin did far better against Count Dooku then his master did, so this is doubtful.

Most likely, in his rage Vader will lose his balance, and either fall into the lava pit, fire, chemical pool, whatever, or take one mismove, and he'll be cut by Kenobi's blade.

But Obi-Wan will in no way kick him to the curb, it's not realistic for Obi-Wan to all of the sudden become more powerful, and come close to killing the one who has already murdered hundreds of Jedi.

[JediBendu]

Ewan and Hayden are already said to be training for the duel so you can bet it'll be a good one.

But I don't think Obi will come out as the superior fighter, rather, he'll almost loose and by some stroke of luck (or by Anakin's youthful naivety) he'll end up scoring a fatal blow (or what he thinks is fatal) against Anakin, much like he did to Maul.

'When I left you, I was but a learner, now I am the master.' - vader, anh

The humiliation of defeat, especially if Anakin was going to win if not for his arrogance, would be another taunt that keeps the dark side juices flowing. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/evil.gif

[Jacen Solo]

Anakin says in Episode II that Obi-Wan has been holding him back, that in some ways - a lot of ways - he's really ahead of him. Y'all have brought up some interesting points ... Anakin is the Chosen One, it doesn't seem like he'd go down really easily.

But I still hope we see Obi-Wan in some serious action. This is going to be one cool duel. This question could be used to start another thread, but ... if Obi-Wan was so great in his battle with Darth Maul, what in the world happened to him when we was dealing with Dooku?

[Javen]

Dooku just got some good hits that took Obi Wan out for a little bit. Dooku was powerful though and alot arrogant, plus talked trash. Anakin had him for good bit to, but just got the better of by a more experienced opponet.

Ibelive we will see alot of unleashed power in EP III by alot of people.

[Jacen Solo]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Nov 7 2002, 03:47 PM
by some stroke of luck (or by Anakin's youthful naivety) he'll end up scoring a fatal blow (or what he thinks is fatal) against Anakin, much like he did to Maul
I agree with you on that one. "His abilities have made him arrogant," Master Obi-Wan tells Yoda in AotC. That's probably a part of what gives Obi-Wan the victory.

[Darth Badly]

But that dialogue doesn't rule out Vader/Anakin letting Obi-Wan get away / flee with or withourt Anakin's son as a last act of humanity before donning the vader suit.

His line about 'You should not have come back' could be taken to mean 'I let you go on the agreement that you kept out of the way and made no trouble, now you have returned in front of everyone I have no choice but to kill your smellyold forgetful arse.'

[DblDwn]

That's a good point Badly. I said something along those lines in a different thread some time ago.

The possibility of Vader letting Obi-Wan go was one of the reasons that have lead me to be leaning heavily towards the possibility that Sidious is the one that causes Anakin's injuries. He lets Obi-Wan go, Sidious knows this, gives him the lightning, causes him to wear the suit, Vader fears him, that is why he must obey his master, and it adds more power to the scene in ROTJ when the Emperor is feeding Luke the lightning. Vader would have firsthand knowledge of how that would feel and would also know what was about to happen to Luke because he also experienced that. A bit of help in deciding to save his son and killing the man he fears most.

Just a thought. ???

[bluemilk]

it makes sense.. as we know Anakin never fully turned to the darkside. Perhaps it was out of respect for Obi Wan that he gave him a 'headstart' of sorts.

Somebody on one of the threads mentioned that Vader fell in line because Palpy beat him into submission (in a way). Intriguing that Vader was true to the darkside but never fully turned. It gives more significance to Luke saying "I feel the conflict within you, let go of your hate". Ep III is going to rock!

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by bluemilk@Aug 26 2003, 07:27 PM
it makes sense.. as we know Anakin never fully turned to the darkside. Perhaps it was out of respect for Obi Wan that he gave him a 'headstart' of sorts.
I think it's more likely Obi-Wan got away after Anakin fell in the lava pit.

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by darthmac@Jun 11 2002, 12:16 AM
Telling him *" Give this to my son when he is ready and do not come back Obi-Wan! " This showing some humanity left in Vader. By A New Hope he has been praticing the darkside for 20 years and just wants to get rid of Obi-Wan.
obi-wan was lying to luke about the circumstances of Anakin's 'death', it's more likely he was lying about the lightsaber to.

"I sense something..a presence I haven't felt since..."

and

"A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old Master." - vader: anh

Anakin's and Obi-Wan's last encounter was when Obi was still Anakin's master ie before he had completely turned to the dark side. If a second confrontation occured after this, when he was brimming with dark side energies, he wouldn't have said that to tarkin, nor would he say to obi:

"When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master" - vader: anh

[Sithlord Jutkendo]

I find it very unlikley that Vader would let Obi Wan go. I believe, IMHOP, that Vader simply would have killed him. But, these theories are very interesting and the posts are intriguing...


Hmmmm..... medicate on this I will. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[DblDwn]

"You should not have come back"

OK we can take this line to mean that Vader/Anakin let Obi-Wan go on the stipulation that he not return and that he hide out the remaining years of his life. Now on the flip side of that if Anakin were to end up in lava, or an energy field of some sort, or whatever else could have caused the injuries, then wouldn't it be known that Obi-Wan got away? I'm sure that between Vader and the Emperor they could figure out that no one had killed Obi-Wan and he was still alive. If that is the case then wouldn't they have hunted him down as they do 99.99998% of the other Jedi in the galaxy? If not, then why? Did they not hunt him down because of some mutual respect? Unlikely. Did they not hunt him down because they simply didn't care? Probably not. Did they not hunt him down because they figured that one Jedi left alive couldn't single-handedly bring down the Empire and the Sith? Perhaps, but we all know that is what happened. Without Obi-Wan there would be no Luke, no Jedi training from Yoda, no Leia, no Han, no Chewie, no Lando, no victory for the Rebellion. Interesting if you think about it.

"You're over-confidence is your weakness."

Interesting indeed ???

[The Dark Moose]

I actually find some merit in this theory. I think Anakin / Vader's conflict is a theme throughout the saga, and it makes him do things that are ambiguous.

I think this conflict will prevent him from destroying his old master - I've even theorized this on the sw.com boards.

It's a Vader thang - he hates those he loves, he loves those he hates...

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by The Dark Moose@Aug 27 2003, 05:46 PM
I actually find some merit in this theory. I think Anakin / Vader's conflict is a theme throughout the saga, and it makes him do things that are ambiguous.

I think this conflict will prevent him from destroying his old master - I've even theorized this on the sw.com boards.

It's a Vader thang - he hates those he loves, he loves those he hates...
if he prevents himself from destroying his master it kinda implies that he's now the master, which negates his comment in anh.

but as you said, it's still ambiguous style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel.gif



...and welcome to the Senate btw style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[The Dark Moose]

Thanks, glad to be here. Thought its time I start exploring other message boards to see what the scuttlebut is style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

I think that no matter what happens in Ep3, Vader fears losing Obi-Wan. Only when Obi-Wan returns does he realize that he must strike his old master down. "His plan is not escape," Vader says. I don't think Vader has a problem killing Obi-Wan if his hand is forced to do so, but I think he would rather his old master simply stay away.

I may be giving Vader more sensitivity than he deserves, but ultimately it is seen that he is an extremely conflicted character, one that is very afraid to lose the one's he cares for. I dont think he cares for Obi-Wan as much as his mother (notice his reluctance to save him on Geonosis without Padme's prodding) but he does still have an attachment nonetheless.

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by The Dark Moose@Aug 27 2003, 06:02 PM
Thanks, glad to be here. Thought its time I start exploring other message boards to see what the scuttlebut is style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

I think that no matter what happens in Ep3, Vader fears losing Obi-Wan. Only when Obi-Wan returns does he realize that he must strike his old master down. "His plan is not escape," Vader says. I don't think Vader has a problem killing Obi-Wan if his hand is forced to do so, but I think he would rather his old master simply stay away.


good point - 'you should not have come back' does imply that - plus it also means that he knew Obi-Wan wasn't dead, but didn't look for him. Might be something he hides from Palpatine as well style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I may be giving Vader more sensitivity than he deserves, but ultimately it is seen that he is an extremely conflicted character, one that is very afraid to lose the one's he cares for. I dont think he cares for Obi-Wan as much as his mother (notice his reluctance to save him on Geonosis without Padme's prodding) but he does still have an attachment nonetheless. [/b][/quote]

He was ready to leave Obi-Wan (or surpass him) when he confides in Padme in her appartment, yet will say to Obi-Wan that he's more like the father he never had. He then totally blames Obi-Wan for 'holding him back'. I think something will be the trigger that goes a long way in severing the attachment.

[conron_montyn23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think that no matter what happens in Ep3, Vader fears losing Obi-Wan. Only when Obi-Wan returns does he realize that he must strike his old master down. "His plan is not escape," Vader says. I don't think Vader has a problem killing Obi-Wan if his hand is forced to do so, but I think he would rather his old master simply stay away.
[/b][/quote]

i agree with this.

[DblDwn]

"When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master"

Perhaps he is saying that he was learning the dark side because it was an early moment in his turn but, after 18 years of practice, he had become the master meaning that he wouldn't be foolish enough to let him go this time.

That is why Obi-Wan says that he is only a master of evil. He's telling us what Vader means. After all it's not like Vader was now the master and Obi-Wan had become his padawan. So there really is nothing else that he could mean.

[conron_montyn23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> "When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master"

Perhaps he is saying that he was learning the dark side because it was an early moment in his turn but, after 18 years of practice, he had become the master meaning that he wouldn't be foolish enough to let him go this time.

That is why Obi-Wan says that he is only a master of evil. He's telling us what Vader means. After all it's not like Vader was now the master and Obi-Wan had become his padawan. So there really is nothing else that he could mean. [/b][/quote]

by this I simply think that Vader is telling Obi-wan that with the power of the darkside he has become more powerful, and therefore the master while since Obi-wan's powers have not matched up to Vader's, Obi-wan is the apprentice.

So, I believe Vader is saying that he is much more powerful than Obi-wan, and Obi-wan is almost insignificant.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by conron_montyn23@Aug 27 2003, 11:20 AM
Obi-wan is the apprentice.


That's my point.

Obi-Wan is obviously not going to become the apprentice so it is really isn't a likely scenario to look at it that way. But if you want to that's cool.

[conron_montyn23]

True.

[The Dark Moose]

Its a bit off-topic, but just to comment on the "master" thing...

Vader I think means that in the old Jedi regime, Obi-Wan was his master. Now, in the "New Order", he is the both figurative and potitical master over Obi-Wan.

Situationally, of course, he's correct. He can have Obi-Wan arrested, tortured, thrown out of an airlock for all he cares.

But of course, in reality, Obi-Wan is still the wiser, still the Jedi Master, despite the order being defunct, and Anakin is the old prodigal padawan.

It's a matter of perspective - a play on the whole "from a certain point of view" thang...

[JediBendu]

true, and as Padme says, every student out grows their mentor - it's the only way they grow. If there was some 'unfinished business' between the two, Vader would use the opportunity to prove that he was the Master now.

[Darth_Badman]

Anakin Skywalker will die. Darth Vader will be born. Darth Vader, who does not know he has a DAUGHTER. I am not sure about a galaxy far far away and long time ago, but they may not ultrasound. Anakin may know Padme is pregnant, but they think it's just one child. When Obi-Wan and Anakin fight, Anakin will undoubtedly get seriously F@#$ked up, okay? Anakin, who is dying in Obi-Wan's arms gives Obi-Wan the lightsaber and tells him to give it to Luke, not knowing that he is going to survive. So in a sense, yeah I guess he does let him go. They knew Obi-Wan was alive after Anakin survived but he stayed so well hidden they figured the slow decay of time got him.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Darth_Badman@Sep 1 2003, 09:14 PM
Anakin, who is dying in Obi-Wan's arms gives Obi-Wan the lightsaber and tells him to give it to Luke, not knowing that he is going to survive.
Anakin duels Obi-Wan out of rage and Obi-Wan is forced to 'kill' his apprentice who happens to be the Chosen One. I doubt there is going to be this whole scene where Obi-Wan beats Anakin down, holds him in his arms at which point they say goodbye and kiss, and then throws him into some lava because he smells bad.

You can have the Terms of Endearment moment in your mind but if Lucas does it then I might just rage myself and beat the $hit out of the person sitting in front of me at the theater. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif

[Darth_Badman]

LOL. Again point taken. I am just trying to figure out Lucas. I don't see Obi-Wan trying to strike down Anakin, but rather like in ROTJ trying to save him and bring him back to the light. I believe Obi-Wan would fight hard but try not to confront him. Which brings shades of thought, "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." Regardless, I don't believe there will be 2 confrontations in Episode III, there is one battle and Anakin gets hurt. Then Episode IV comes along and Little Annie vapes Obi-Wan into the force.

[Darth_Badman]

OOoo, one more thing I wasn't saying Obi-Wan would throw him into lava or kiss. I was trying to draw parallels with the PT and OT. Which has been recurrence.

[mrnapier]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> don't believe there will be 2 confrontations in Episode III, there is one battle and Anakin gets hurt. Then Episode IV comes along and Little Annie vapes Obi-Wan into the force. [/b][/quote]

And to prove this: when vader confronts the old Ben Kenobi he says: the circle is complete, back then I was but the learner, now I am the master!

so this is the second confrontation.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Aug 27 2003, 06:09 PM
"You should not have come back"

OK we can take this line to mean that Vader/Anakin let Obi-Wan go on the stipulation that he not return and that he hide out the remaining years of his life. Now on the flip side of that if Anakin were to end up in lava, or an energy field of some sort, or whatever else could have caused the injuries, then wouldn't it be known that Obi-Wan got away? I'm sure that between Vader and the Emperor they could figure out that no one had killed Obi-Wan and he was still alive. If that is the case then wouldn't they have hunted him down as they do 99.99998% of the other Jedi in the galaxy? If not, then why? Did they not hunt him down because of some mutual respect? Unlikely.

I still think there's every chance that at the end of Ep III Vader will know that Obi-Wan is alive and have perhaps even turned a blind eye to his escape.

Over in the Clowns thread we've been discussing the duel at the end of AOTC. There's a very spotlighted bit where Obi-Wan has taken a beating from Count Duckular and is laying helpless on the floor. Just as Duckular is about to slice him in half, Anakin leaps right across the room to save him.

Now why is this in there. Sure it's part of the overall fight. But at that point in the film Anakin has already expressed all kind of resentments of Obi-Wan. So why does Uncle George go out of his way to manlipulate the fight so that Anakin has to save obi-Wan?

Maybe there's a point in Ep III where Obi-Wan has defeated Anakin, (maybe the lava pit, maybe not.) but can't bring himself to kill his former student, partly because Anakin lost his hand saving Obi-Wan in AOTC.

They part - Obi-Wan having won a victory but sparing Anakin, and in return Anakin falls to the darkside but never goes looking for oni-Wan perhaps even telling Palpy something that's true from a certain point of view like "Obi-Wan Kenobi is no more." meaning that he'll no longer be an active Jedi and be called plain Ben. Palpy assumes he's dead.

Obi-Wan stays out of sight until...

"You should not have come back."

[Darth Vegas]

I think it's more of a case of Obi-Wan leaving Vader behind after he takes his fall into the lava pit, much as the duel in ESB, Obi-Wan will cut off Vader's arm and then try to convince him to turn back to the light, and then Vader will take his dip in the lava pit.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by TK-007@Sep 5 2003, 02:12 AM
I think it's more of a case of Obi-Wan leaving Vader behind after he takes his fall into the lava pit, much as the duel in ESB, Obi-Wan will cut off Vader's arm and then try to convince him to turn back to the light, and then Vader will take his dip in the lava pit.

You think Anakin will have his arm cut off AGAIN?

I don't see why? (Or do you mean another arm!)

[darthsparky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think that no matter what happens in Ep3, Vader fears losing Obi-Wan. Only when Obi-Wan returns does he realize that he must strike his old master down. "His plan is not escape," Vader says. I don't think Vader has a problem killing Obi-Wan if his hand is forced to do so, but I think he would rather his old master simply stay away.[/b][/quote]

i also agree with this....i've always had a hard time believing that Obi is 'hiding' on the very planet that anakin grew up on. if vader wanted to find him, it wouldn't have been a long search. i also think that Vader knew where luke was and that the 'Tremor' mentioned in ESB is caused when luke starts his jedi training. Until then, Vader (the good that's left in him) is 'hiding' luke from the emperor.

[PhantomX]

Originally posted by darthsparky@Sep 5 2003, 07:35 AM
i also agree with this....i've always had a hard time believing that Obi is 'hiding' on the very planet that anakin grew up on. if vader wanted to find him, it wouldn't have been a long search. i also think that Vader knew where luke was and that the 'Tremor' mentioned in ESB is caused when luke starts his jedi training. Until then, Vader (the good that's left in him) is 'hiding' luke from the emperor.
I think Vader's home planet would be the perfect place to hide. All Tatooine is to Vader is one big bad memory.. He was the absolute lowest class of person while he was there, that's where his mother died,... Why on earth would he ever go back to Tatooine? As soon as he became the powerful Dark Lord Darth Vader, why would he ever want to remember that there was a time when he was a slave?

[Ewok Hater]

I have a question.

Are Obi Wan, Yoda, Owen Lars & Palpatine the only ones who know Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader? With Anakin being a hero at the end of the Clone Wars, he would be a very public figure & any news of his actions would be known around the galaxy, much like any war hero. If something happened to him, I'm sure it would be reported somewhere. The galaxy is not going to believe Anakin Skywalker, the supposed Chosen One & Greatest Force User Ever disappeared or died and coincidentally, Darth Vader, appears around the same time as Anakin's disappearance/death and he has the same Force Powers & Abilities as he did. (Then again, a pair of glasses prevent everyone from knowing Clark Kent is Superman but I don't think GL would make the general public in Star Wars as naive as the people in Metropolis).

I'm sure some people other than the afore-mentioned know Anakin is Vader, probably some higher up Imperials like Tarkin & so on. However, I think news like Anakin becomming Vader would be pretty public, considering his status in the galaxy, despite any Imperial actions to deny it.

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

One theory that could work in that case is Anakin taking on the name Vader before the duel with Obi that ends with him needing the suit.

If this were the case, much like Dooku/Tyrannus, Anakin and Vader would exist at the same time. After the duel with Obi, Anakin is "dead" as Vader remains.

I do think that there is certainly a lot to say about who will know who Vader realy is by the end of Ep III. I think it will be closely guarded, with few other, in any, than Obi, Yoda, and Palpy. Bail Organa and Tarkin might be the only others that know the deal.

I dont think that Owen Lars knows, but is simply lying to Luke about what happened to his father in order to keep him out of trouble. I would think more towards Owem beleiving Anakin dead, and perhaps blaming Obi-wan and/or the Jedi in general.

[Ewok Hater]

The only problem I have with that theory is that very few people know Dooku is Darth Tyrannus. Yoda, Mace & Obi Wan all call him Dooku. In fact, the only people who ever called him Tyrannus were Jango Fett, (& he's dead), & Darth Sidious. Nobody really knows about the Tyrannus name.

If Anakin became Vader in name only mid-way through Episode 3, as has been rumored, who would know? The average person in the Star Wars Universe would still know him as Anakin instead of Vader much like everyone knows Dooku instead of Tyrannus. Only a very few select would know both identities. The only way for this to work is to have Anakin seemingly "die" via a fall, spaceship crash, etc. kind of early on. Everyone would think he's dead when he's either barely alive or stranded. Then have him get found or he comes back only known to a few people, turns to the dark side, becomes Vader, fights Kenobi & we all know the rest.

It's going to be very interesting how they explain what happens to Anakin & who knows about him. Anyone else care to comment?

[bluemilk]

Originally posted by NIGHTTRAVELER@Sep 6 2003, 08:30 PM
I dont think that Owen Lars knows, but is simply lying to Luke about what happened to his father in order to keep him out of trouble. I would think more towards Owem beleiving Anakin dead, and perhaps blaming Obi-wan and/or the Jedi in general.
nah. I bet my peanut M&Ms that Owen knows that Anakin is Vader because he doesn't want to send Luke off the planet hence keeping him around to work on the farm with more excuses. You can tell Owen doesn't care for Obi Wan and is fearful. That's probably because Obi Wan informed the Lars what happened to Anakin.

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

Originally posted by Ewok Hater@Sep 7 2003, 05:02 AM
The only problem I have with that theory is that very few people know Dooku is Darth Tyrannus. Yoda, Mace & Obi Wan all call him Dooku. In fact, the only people who ever called him Tyrannus were Jango Fett, (& he's dead), & Darth Sidious. Nobody really knows about the Tyrannus name.

If Anakin became Vader in name only mid-way through Episode 3, as has been rumored, who would know? The average person in the Star Wars Universe would still know him as Anakin instead of Vader much like everyone knows Dooku instead of Tyrannus. Only a very few select would know both identities. The only way for this to work is to have Anakin seemingly "die" via a fall, spaceship crash, etc. kind of early on. Everyone would think he's dead when he's either barely alive or stranded. Then have him get found or he comes back only known to a few people, turns to the dark side, becomes Vader, fights Kenobi & we all know the rest.

It's going to be very interesting how they explain what happens to Anakin & who knows about him. Anyone else care to comment?
But the name Tyrannus is known at least to the Jedi. Point being Dooku could be killed in Ep 3 without the Jedi finding out that they were one and the same. Same goes for Anakin if Vader kills off some Jedi perhaps, and Palpy leaks the name around town....

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Ewok Hater@Sep 6 2003, 09:02 PM
Anyone else care to comment?
Yeah, Owen is afraid of Luke having too much of his father in him to the point where he doesn't want him having contact with the crazy old wizard and he won't let him have his father's weapon, I say it's fairly obvious that Owen knows precisely what happened to Anakin and that Obi-Wan told him, Owen and Beru had to have a reason to hide the boy and there has to be a good reason that Owen doesn't like Old Ben.

Owen thought he should ahve stayed and not gotten involved and we all know if Anakin hadn't gone on that damn fool-idealistic crusade in AOTC, than he would never have become Darth Vader.

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

I think it is quite possible that Ben does not leave Luke with Owen, but instead with Cleigg. If so, Owen coulsd simply be bitter that he got stuck with the boy after Cleigg passes on.

True about the weapon, but only because he doest want Luke to run off (like Dad) and become a Jedi. The lightsaber doesnt mean Owen knows Anakin is Vader, but we know he was aware of him being a Jedi. Same goes for his wanting Luke to stay away from Ben....

[mace]

I think that at some point during Ep. III, Obiwan Kenobi will leave the Jedi Order, change his name to Ben, and possibly even join the CIS - all before "the duel" with Anakin occurs. My reasons for thinking this are:

1. In ANH, Obiwan says to Luke "I haven't gone by the name Obiwan since...oh...before you were born." Since we're all assuming Luke and Leia will be born during Ep. III, this means that Obiwan has to change his name at some point during the movie.

2. Also in ANH, Obiwan says to Luke, "I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father." It seems like if he never left the Jedi Order but was simply in hiding, he would say that he is a Jedi - not that he once was.

3. We all know Leia addresses Obiwan as "General Kenobi" in ANH. Hasn't it always seemed strange that she didn't refer to him as "Master Kenobi"? A Jedi Master is a much more powerful and respected position than a mere general. Although, I do realize that the fact that she also refers to him as "Obiwan" somewhat weakens reason #1.

4. In TPM, we see how Obiwan is not afraid to go against the wishes of the council (much like his former master) when he takes Anakin as his Padawan. Yoda admonishes him, "Quigon's defiance I sense in you. Need that you do not."

5. In AOTC, Yoda's criticism of Obiwan continues when he indirectly accuses Obiwan of being cocky and arrogant.

6. In AOTC, Dooku tries to get Obiwan to join him, implying that Quigon would have joined him if he were still alive.

7. All the Jedi except Yoda and Obiwan are apparently dead by ANH. I can see maybe Yoda somehow surviving some mass Jedi genocide because he's obviously the wisest and most powerful of them all. But why would Obiwan be any more likely to survive than, say, Mace Windu or any of the other members of the council - unless Obiwan had already deserted the Jedi Order?

8. I've read a lot of people writing about a supposed cut scene from AOTC where Obiwan is very intrigued by the "lost 20" Jedi when researching in the temple archives. Supposedly there was a whole conversation around this with Jocasta Nu that was later dropped. Although this cut scene wasn't even included on the DVD, it may have given additional foreshadowing to Obiwan's eventual desertion of the Order.

Any thoughts?

[JediBendu]

moved to Spoilers :yinyang:

[Obi-Stu]

My two cents:

I think it's more that the order diminishes in power and authority, till there is really nothing left, rather than ObiWan leaving the order.

Hasn't the Hyperspace chats revealed that we will find out why Obi Wan
changes his name?

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

I dont think Obi deserts the Jedi order, but rather the order ceases to exist after EpIII.

In the time of ANH, the Jedi Order is disbanded, but the public is still aware that they existed. It's kinda like working for a company for say 20 years, and a competitor buys the plant, shutting it down. Later, you might say "I once worked for that company" as opposed to "I STILL work for that company"

General Kenobi- The Clone Wars are stated as being the first full scale war since the formation of the replublic. Prior to that, the Republic had no military, only the Jedi as "keepers of the peace". It makes perfect sense that the Jedi become generals and/or other ranking officials during this crisis, to lead teams of soldiers in protecting the Republic (that is their job, right?)

Jedi Genocide- Perhaps Obi-wan is not present when the Jedi purge takes place?

The lost 20- I could be wrong, but my understandnig of that cut scene was that Obi-wan was looking at a statue of Dooku when the librarian approached him in the library. She goes on to say what a shame it was that Dooku left the order. If thats the case, its a lot different than Obi-wan being fascinated by the lost 20.

[Obi-Stu]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I dont think Obi deserts the Jedi order, but rather the order ceases to exist after EpIII. [/b][/quote]

that's what I was trying to say. Thanks. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by mace@Sep 9 2003, 12:36 AM
1. In ANH, Obiwan says to Luke "I haven't gone by the name Obiwan since...oh...before you were born." Since we're all assuming Luke and Leia will be born during Ep. III, this means that Obiwan has to change his name at some point during the movie.
Just a thought: Ben might have been a nick name that was given to Obi-Wan during the war, because it was easier and quicker to say...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>2. Also in ANH, Obiwan says to Luke, "I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father." It seems like if he never left the Jedi Order but was simply in hiding, he would say that he is a Jedi - not that he once was.[/b][/quote]
I agree that he probably said that he used to be a Jedi Knight because the order ceased to exist.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>3. We all know Leia addresses Obiwan as "General Kenobi" in ANH. Hasn't it always seemed strange that she didn't refer to him as "Master Kenobi"? A Jedi Master is a much more powerful and respected position than a mere general. Although, I do realize that the fact that she also refers to him as "Obiwan" somewhat weakens reason #1.[/b][/quote]
If you've been able to read some of the Holonet reports in the Insider, they are already refering to Obi-Wan as "General Kenobi." I think Jedi who were put in charge of a contingent of Clone Troopers were given a military rank.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>4. In TPM, we see how Obiwan is not afraid to go against the wishes of the council (much like his former master) when he takes Anakin as his Padawan. Yoda admonishes him, "Quigon's defiance I sense in you. Need that you do not."

5. In AOTC, Yoda's criticism of Obiwan continues when he indirectly accuses Obiwan of being cocky and arrogant.

6. In AOTC, Dooku tries to get Obiwan to join him, implying that Quigon would have joined him if he were still alive.[/b][/quote]
Good points. Some things to think about...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>7. All the Jedi except Yoda and Obiwan are apparently dead by ANH. I can see maybe Yoda somehow surviving some mass Jedi genocide because he's obviously the wisest and most powerful of them all. But why would Obiwan be any more likely to survive than, say, Mace Windu or any of the other members of the council - unless Obiwan had already deserted the Jedi Order?[/b][/quote]
I think the reason that Ben was able to survive the genocide is because of where he chose to hide. There's speculation that comes from the EU that Yoda chose to stay on Dagobah because the dark side cave kind of canceled out his presence in the Force. In the book Tatooine Ghost, it's revealed that Ben's hut wasn't too far from where Anakin slaughtered all those Tusken Raiders in AOTC. Again, a major dark side presence cancelling out Ben's presence.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>8. I've read a lot of people writing about a supposed cut scene from AOTC where Obiwan is very intrigued by the "lost 20" Jedi when researching in the temple archives. Supposedly there was a whole conversation around this with Jocasta Nu that was later dropped. Although this cut scene wasn't even included on the DVD, it may have given additional foreshadowing to Obiwan's eventual desertion of the Order.[/b][/quote]
The conversation between Obi-Wan and Jocasta Nu is in the novelization of AOTC. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif There was the short scene cut from the movie and later included on the DVD, but Obi-Wan does ask her questions about the Lost 20 in the book.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by mace@Sep 8 2003, 11:36 PM
6. In AOTC, Dooku tries to get Obiwan to join him, implying that Quigon would have joined him if he were still alive.

What does that have to do with anything? So Dooku tried to recruit Obi-Wan. That was to mirror Vader trying to recruit Luke in Empire. It's not like Obi-Wan is going to change his mind and become Dooku's b*#ch in Episode III.

Obi-Wan doesn't abandon the Jedi because, as it has alrady been stated, the Jedi cease to exist after the purge. They is no Order to be in allegiance to. Obi-Wan has to hide out in order to take Luke to Yoda so that he may one day be trained in order to redeem his father and save the galaxy.

That about sums that up. Well, I guess we can close this thread now. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Yes Dbldwn, he doens't abbandon the Jedi Order, he abbandon's the corrupt Empire that the Republic has become and becomes a fugitive becomes one of those pesky rebels that the Jedi not to long ago were fighting against.

[James]

Obi-Wan didn't abandon the order. By the time the Republic fell and was replaced with the Empire, and Palpy's Jedi purge had begun, there was no order to abandon.

[Mark Skywalker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Obi Wan Unleashed In Ep 3?, will we see the full extent of his power[/b][/quote]

When Obi-Wan faces Young Darth Vader at MUSTAFAR (In The MOTHER OF ALL LIGHTSABER Battles) before Luke vs Vader in ROTJ. I'm sure were going to see Obi-Wan's Force powers used to the Max, His Lightsaber skills to the max. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[RebelRoss0587]

I'm sure we will see Obi-wan's light side fight to it's full potential, but he won't embrace any of his dark side power. Obi-wan is everything that Anakin should've and could've been.

[JMAS]

I'm looking forward to seeing Obi-Wan having to push is abilities to the max to best Vader. In fact, I don't really think he's going to "best" him as it were. I think it's going to be more a situation similar to how Bruce Lee was able to defeat any opponent. But learning/knowing their weakness and exploiting it. Ben's going to use Ananin own overconfidence against him.

Also looking forward to seeing Palpidious unleashing a lifetime of pent up rage and hatred on the Mace and Yoda style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/holosid.gif

[The Prism]

Originally posted by mace@Sep 9 2003, 01:36 AM
I think that at some point during Ep. III, Obiwan Kenobi will leave the Jedi Order, change his name to Ben, and possibly even join the CIS - all before "the duel" with Anakin occurs. My reasons for thinking this are:

1. In ANH, Obiwan says to Luke "I haven't gone by the name Obiwan since...oh...before you were born." Since we're all assuming Luke and Leia will be born during Ep. III, this means that Obiwan has to change his name at some point during the movie.

2. Also in ANH, Obiwan says to Luke, "I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father." It seems like if he never left the Jedi Order but was simply in hiding, he would say that he is a Jedi - not that he once was.

3. We all know Leia addresses Obiwan as "General Kenobi" in ANH. Hasn't it always seemed strange that she didn't refer to him as "Master Kenobi"? A Jedi Master is a much more powerful and respected position than a mere general. Although, I do realize that the fact that she also refers to him as "Obiwan" somewhat weakens reason #1.

4. In TPM, we see how Obiwan is not afraid to go against the wishes of the council (much like his former master) when he takes Anakin as his Padawan. Yoda admonishes him, "Quigon's defiance I sense in you. Need that you do not."

5. In AOTC, Yoda's criticism of Obiwan continues when he indirectly accuses Obiwan of being cocky and arrogant.

6. In AOTC, Dooku tries to get Obiwan to join him, implying that Quigon would have joined him if he were still alive.

7. All the Jedi except Yoda and Obiwan are apparently dead by ANH. I can see maybe Yoda somehow surviving some mass Jedi genocide because he's obviously the wisest and most powerful of them all. But why would Obiwan be any more likely to survive than, say, Mace Windu or any of the other members of the council - unless Obiwan had already deserted the Jedi Order?

8. I've read a lot of people writing about a supposed cut scene from AOTC where Obiwan is very intrigued by the "lost 20" Jedi when researching in the temple archives. Supposedly there was a whole conversation around this with Jocasta Nu that was later dropped. Although this cut scene wasn't even included on the DVD, it may have given additional foreshadowing to Obiwan's eventual desertion of the Order.

Any thoughts?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



Sorry to bust your bubble, but based on what I've seen from the graphic novel and other spoilers on this site, I'm 99.9999% sure that's not going to happen.

Edit: Whoops! Didn't realize how old that quote was. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohwell.gif

[Raganork8]

how does obi become ben this is something i haven't heard yet...

[mtilden]

I don't believe that it is explained at all in the screenplay, and I don't think it really needs to be. The point is that Obi Wan is 'hiding out' and hence he has adopted an assumed name. No biggie.

[GeneralDirection]

It's not mentioned in RotS. We can assume he just decides on the name off-screen, or between RotS and ANH.

[Raganork8]

i'd like to see ani call him ben...

[Mark Skywalker]

Originally posted by raganork8@Apr 29 2005, 05:11 PM
i'd like to see ani call him ben...
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Me too

[Raganork8]

I'm glad someone agrees it'd be a nice touch.

[Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)]

I disagree - whilst it's not exactly the best alias around, using the same surname and all, it is meant to be an alias isn't it - something that goes with him going into hiding ... so I would have thought that having anyone in RotS calling him Ben - other than perhaps Yoda at the end - would have defeated the purpose.

[Raganork8]

I don't think the empire went after kenobi ever again i think they left it at that if he came back they'd get him, they were hoping he died off so using en in ROTS wouldn't mean too much.

[Luminara Skye]

I don't think they will address why Obi-Wan came to be called "Ben" in the movie. It doesn't really need to be. Perhaps in a novel between Ep III and IV. Perhaps it's a name that Luke stuck on him because (as a child) he couldn't say Obi-Wan. Although I don't get the impression that Owen would have let Luke have a lot of contact with Obi-Wan. Who knows? However, Leia did seem to know him as Ben Kenobi, as well, when Luke sprung her from the prision block in Ep IV. We'll see...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

[Ewok Hater]

Just wondering....what if Obi Wan HAD rescued Anakin from the burning lava instead of just leaving him to die. That would be a great infinities storyline. Had Obi Wan rescued Anakin, maybe Padme lives too. Something to think about.

[Mark Skywalker]

Originally posted by Ewok Hater@May 7 2005, 12:15 PM
Just wondering....what if Obi Wan HAD rescued Anakin from the burning lava instead of just leaving him to die. That would be a great infinities storyline. Had Obi Wan rescued Anakin, maybe Padme lives too. Something to think about.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


If Obi-Wan had helped Anakin/Vader from The Burning lava, It's most likely that Vader would have killed him. Keep in mind the reason Obi-Wan didn't help Anakin was because Anakin joined The DARK SIDE Of The Force. And with that he joined The Sith (The Enemies Of The Jedi) as DARTH VADER. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/vader.gif .

Padme couldn't be save due to Vader raises his hand and starts to Force choke Padme. She hangs in the air choking for about 4 seconds, then Vader releases her and she falls to the ground unconscious. Plus she dies bring Luke & Leia into the world.

[Ewok Hater]

But how could Vader have killed him? He had no legs, no arms, well, one mechanical, and was severely weakened. Perhaps be bringing him aboard the Tantive, Padme doesn't die of a broken heart, Yoda & Obi Wan help turn Anakin back to the light side; or even Anakin seeing his 2 kids alive would help bring him back.

[yoda19873]

"I though i could instruct him as well as Yoda. I was wrong!" This is a line delivered by Ben Kenobi in Return Of the Jedi. This line suggests to tme that Yoda instructed Aanakin as a Jedi and then Ben tried but failed and that is why Anakin turned ot the Dark Side. But there is no evidence of that at all in the prequels? Am i wrong? any comments?

[Bandersnatch]

No evidence at all?

Yoda tests Anakin in TPM. We see that Yoda teaches young Jedi students in AOTC. We can safely assume that Anakin had at least one or two "Yoda Classes" sometime between TPM and AOTC.

Or you can take the grammar of Obi-Wan's line to mean "I thought I could train him just as well as Yoda (would have trained him...").

[LasheFett]

No No No.....Yoda never has anything to do with Anakins training. All the council did was grant Obi-Wan the right to train him.....Anakin was too old to be trained by Yoda. Obi-Wan trained him......what hes saying when he thought he could train him as good as Yoda....it was meant to sound like well if Yoda had trained him he may have came out better...ya know!!!

[Bandersnatch]

...Like I said. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

[FalekDawn]

Originally posted by Ewok Hater@May 10 2005, 08:15 PM
But how could Vader have killed him? He had no legs, no arms, well, one mechanical, and was severely weakened. <div align="right">Quoted post</div>

He could bite Obi-Wan's legs off. 'Tis merely a flesh wound.

[jjsterner]

The black knight always triumphs!

I'm invincible!

[Cassus Fett]

Like the lines Obi-Wan said to anakin at the end, "I loved you, you were my brother"

[Bretsch]

^style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif And the fact that he couldn't bring himself to kill him or watch him dye. I have to admit that I've allways considered Ewan a great actor, but that little scene in ROTS really blew me away. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif

[Jedi Pin-Jaz]

something cool could hapen if obi1 kills anakien.. everybody wold be wondering who is vader in E-IV, and lucas will have a chanse to do another movie traing to explain who is Vader....

But as we all knew since teh bigining of these movie.. Vader an Obi1 will survive

[leiaorgana]

If I liked ewan mcgregor already imagine now after seeing ROTS, he and Ian stole the movie!!!
I still cannot erased from my mind the Mustafar scene with Anakin lying, fighting for his life and Obi screaming how much he loved him and what It meant for him, I couldn't help get teary-eyed!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif

[obstructed3ntity]

That was an awesome scene. I love how he says all that stuff to Anakin about being the Chosen One and all.

[Cassus Fett]

Originally posted by Bretsch@May 19 2005, 10:56 PM
^style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif And the fact that he couldn't bring himself to kill him or watch him dye. I have to admit that I've allways considered Ewan a great actor, but that little scene in ROTS really blew me away. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


yeah it blew me away also the scene with Anakin in the Jedi temple and the younglings blew me away

Originally posted by leiaorgana@May 19 2005, 11:32 PM
If I liked ewan mcgregor already imagine now after seeing ROTS, he and Ian stole the movie!!!
I still cannot erased from my mind the Mustafar scene with Anakin lying, fighting for his life and Obi screaming how much he loved him and what It meant for him, I couldn't help get teary-eyed!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


i also got teary-eyed.

[Otis_Frampton]

Anyone else notice where that new sound on the ANH DVD comes from? The one Obi-Wan uses to scare off the sand people?

It's Boga! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

-Otis

[Master Shrive]

One thing I was impressed with is how Obi stated to really look like the OT Obi. Small things like the touch of white in his beard made it for me.

[leiaorgana]

As far as I'm concern it was a brilliant performance! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif

[Luminara Skye]

Ewan was superb in that scene. The duel was awesome! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[T-bone]

From the second he was at that ramp to the end of the duel when he walks away - Obi-Wan is the man, no doubt.

I loved every second of that whole part of the film though I feel the duel was not what it was hyped to be - the biggest of all the films, multiple locations, etc... I still think the Vader/Luke duel is more coherent and exciting and dramatic.

But I LOVED this one too - don't take it the wrong way.

[lovelucas]

one of the endearing (not quite the word i'm looking for) qualities of RotS for me is the range of the actors:
ian - the oily master manipulator evolving into a cackling victory-is-mine monster
hayden - delivers, from the confident brother of obiwan who truly deeply cares for him to the lost soul making stops at total love and loved and then discovering the jedi have an agenda and what that does to his beliefs - it's all there on his face and when he makes that decision staring out from the temple to padme, the abandoned hope is what's breaking my heart. then consider the entire dialogue with padme on mustafar. one of the strongest scenes ever. 'i hate you' has never been delivered with such sincerity.
ewan - the easy camaraderie with his brother - just captured fantastically by both players here, esp when anakin is defending artoo and also the poster boy comment. the confession scene by anakin to obi wan and obi wan's positive affirmation of the jedi that anakin is (more than i could ever hope to be) contrasted with, not only the entire duel culminating in 'you were the chosen one', but also the birth scene and immediately afterwards. no one looks like they have more weight on their shoulders than obi wan does in this movie. ewan IS obi wan.

[Bretsch]

Originally posted by Otis_Frampton@May 20 2005, 05:54 AM
Anyone else notice where that new sound on the ANH DVD comes from? The one Obi-Wan uses to scare off the sand people?

It's Boga! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

-Otis
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

That's really interesting, I'll have to pay extra attention to that the next time I see the movie. Thanks for the heads up.

[darthimmus]

I loved how whenever he thought about Anakin killing the younglings, Obi-wan almost teared up everytime

[Luvinna]

Originally posted by Otis_Frampton@May 20 2005, 03:54 AM
Anyone else notice where that new sound on the ANH DVD comes from? The one Obi-Wan uses to scare off the sand people?

It's Boga! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

-Otis
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Oh my gosh! You're right!! I watched ANH last night and I should have picked up on that! Granted, I was going on 2-1/2 hours of sleep, but I still should have picked up on that! Now it doesn't bother me that they changed it. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif

[DarthAnakin]

Originally posted by Otis_Frampton@May 20 2005, 03:54 AM
Anyone else notice where that new sound on the ANH DVD comes from? The one Obi-Wan uses to scare off the sand people?

It's Boga! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

-Otis
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That's awesome!

[Tarkheki JD]

You know, I can really see Obi do that. He is a dweeb. My lovable dweeb. DId you guys know he is a vetrinarian?

Yah, when Boga burst out on the ramp the first time, everyone was chearing. And then I started the chant of "Boga! Boga!" when she was chasin' grevious! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Tarkheki JD]

Oh, and by the way, I total approve of this thread and it's content with the highest blessing I have. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Javen]

Originally posted by Tarkheki JD@May 20 2005, 08:05 PM
Oh, and by the way, I total approve of this thread and it's content with the highest blessing I have. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
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I knew you would. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif

[Justin]

Originally posted by T'bone@May 20 2005, 02:23 PM
From the second he was at that ramp to the end of the duel when he walks away - Obi-Wan is the man, no doubt.

I loved every second of that whole part of the film though I feel the duel was not what it was hyped to be - the biggest of all the films, multiple locations, etc... I still think the Vader/Luke duel is more coherent and exciting and dramatic.

But I LOVED this one too - don't take it the wrong way.
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I agree with you completely and I think the problem is with the camera work and the editing, not the choreography. The camera got too close and didn't let you just watch the fight, it kept cutting away.

[BlueDaintree]

That Boga sound in ANH is cool!

As I said in another thread, it was kinda sad to say goodbye to Ewan and see an older Obi-Wan in ANH.

I just read in a new Star Wars magazine an interview with Ewan. He said something interesting about Obi-Wan not making sure Anakin isn't dead after the duel.

"I think it's quite important that Obi-Wan doesn't realise that Anakin isn't dead. I think if he knew Darth Sidious was going to save Anakin and rebuild him, Obi-Wan would have killed him".

He says that Obi-Wan made a conscious decision not to take Anakin's life, even when he could have. He leaves Anakin for dead, but of course, that doesn't happen.

[Tarkheki JD]

That's becuase Obi is sympathetic and merciful and is the shmex-yo! He's my dweeb! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Mark Skywalker]

Ewan did an amazing job as Obi-Wan Kenobi in The Prequels, And this movie he did a fantastic job.

[Phil Tinajero]

Obi-Wan's always been my favorite character in the saga. The only problem with the OT now, is that Obi-Wan is gone too soon. We've been at his side for three films and then we're ripped away from him and stuck with totally new characters. It'll have a new effect which I'm not sure will be appreciated.

I think Ewan's done a great job, especially in ROTS with Obi-Wan. He gave one of the finest performances in the film and he's managed to throw in a few Alec Guiness mannerisms without distracting the audience and also being able to throw his own spin on it. He sounded most like Guiness when they were in the elevator..."Always on the move"

[darthimmus]

I think Ben's death will so much more powerfull next time I watch ANH.

[Tarkheki JD]

Ack! I alway cover my eyes for that scene. And the scene qui-gon gets hacked. "Thout shalt never watch those scenes" has moved in to my 11 commandments! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Cassus Fett]

i think Ewan McGregor has really done Sir Alec Guiness proud in being a great Obi-wan

[Tarkheki JD]

Actually, Alec HATED this role. That's why I laugh. Ha ha! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[fred2]

Originally posted by Tarkheki JD@May 21 2005, 07:55 PM
Actually, Alec HATED this role. That's why I laugh. Ha ha! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
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Not true. This has become a widespread rumor and misunderstanding. Alec Guiness had actually requested not to be killed off in ANH. He was very happy to return as a ghost in the next two. It was later in life that he got a bit irritated with nutty fans type-casting him.

On the other hand, Harrison Ford is the one that asked George Lucas to kill off Han Solo in ESB.

[Warrior of Old]

Good think Lucas didn't listen...

[Tamu The Hutt]

Originally posted by darthimmus@May 21 2005, 03:19 PM
I think Ben's death will so much more powerfull next time I watch ANH.
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Definitely. It must be soooo satisfying for Vader to chop that sucka in half after being left to burn to death!

[Phil Tinajero]

I think I'll be sad to leave Obi-Wan after being with him for so long. It almost makes you feel sad to be stuck with three characters who can't really relate what you've seen in ROTS. Luke, Han, and Leia are oblivious to the real story, the tragedy and the drama of those who preceded them until the climax of ESB. Instead of, "I am your father" being an "Oh My God!!" moment, it will now be a moment of emotional relief: "Ahh, thank God, Luke knows. Now we can get back to the real story!"

[Sargoth]

What I thought was soooo incredible about the final duel was how it ended. Nick Gillard described how Obi-wan would win by saying "Anakin is more powerful, Obi-wan is more experienced." After the blindingly fast display of swordplay and amazing shows of force power, the battle hinged on the most fundamental rule of close-quarter combat: "Don't attack an opponent who's on higher ground." At this point, Obi-wan is confident enough to declare victory. But of course, Anakin's headstrong and reckless nature once again gets the better of him and he attacks anyway - with catastrophic results.

[Justin]

Originally posted by Sargoth@May 22 2005, 02:55 AM
What I thought was soooo incredible about the final duel was how it ended. Nick Gillard described how Obi-wan would win by saying "Anakin is more powerful, Obi-wan is more experienced." After the blindingly fast display of swordplay and amazing shows of force power, the battle hinged on the most fundamental rule of close-quarter combat: "Don't attack an opponent who's on higher ground." At this point, Obi-wan is confident enough to declare victory. But of course, Anakin's headstrong and reckless nature once again gets the better of him and he attacks anyway - with catastrophic results.
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Yes I thought that was fantastic as well. I am really happy that Obi-Wan actually defeated Anakin instead of just having Anakin accidentally fall into the lava.

[Phil Tinajero]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Yes I thought that was fantastic as well. I am really happy that Obi-Wan actually defeated Anakin instead of just having Anakin accidentally fall into the lava.[/b][/quote]
Yeah, and I also like how Obi-Wan didn't just flat out defeated him. He tried every way to reason with Anakin and only used violence as a last resort.

[BlueDaintree]

It's good having Obi-Wan as the hero of the Prequels and that Ewan was the one who played him.

So he left Anakin for dead...does he know who Darth Vader is then? (Obviously he knows by ANH!)

[Tarkheki JD]

Well, considering that Anakin was named "Darth Vader" before, and Obi watched the holovids of him being named, I'd assume he put one and one together and figured it WAS anakin.

And yah, I like that Obi defeated anakin. Also like Sargoth said, it was Anakin's wrecklessness to make him fall. That's the best morla Obi teaches.. YOU are responcible for yourself, not others. GO OBI!

On a side note, I watched it again last night- Obi and Boga are STILL the most awsome thing in that movie! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happydance.gif

[darthimmus]

Originally posted by Tarkheki JD@May 22 2005, 02:09 PM
Well, considering that Anakin was named "Darth Vader" before, and Obi watched the holovids of him being named, I'd assume he put one and one together and figured it WAS anakin.

And yah, I like that Obi defeated anakin. Also like Sargoth said, it was Anakin's wrecklessness to make him fall. That's the best morla Obi teaches.. YOU are responcible for yourself, not others. GO OBI!

On a side note, I watched it again last night- Obi and Boga are STILL the most awsome thing in that movie! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happydance.gif
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I'm also glad Obi didn't get lucky fighting Anakin. Anakin's suppossed to be a better sword fighter, but Obi used his experience to out fox him. And Anakin's aragence cost him his limbs.

[JKRich]

Originally posted by BlueDaintree@May 22 2005, 03:15 AM
It's good having Obi-Wan as the hero of the Prequels and that Ewan was the one who played him.

So he left Anakin for dead...does he know who Darth Vader is then? (Obviously he knows by ANH!)
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After leaving him for certain death or so he thought.I wonder when Obi Wan learned that Vader didnt die on Mustafar.

[GeneralDirection]

Originally posted by darthimmus@May 21 2005, 10:19 PM
I think Ben's death will so much more powerfull next time I watch ANH.
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I've watched ANH today, and it works brilliantly. Vader has a line in RotS where he says "I have become more powerful than any Jedi could ever dream of being". Then we get the little scene at the end of RotS which explained that Qui-Gon has learned the path to immortality. When Vader and Obi-Wan meet, it's such a powerful moment, and especially Obi-Wan's taunt "I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - he's paraphrasing Anakin, and he's telling the truth. When he joins the Force, Vader is absolutely baffled. What should be a moment of triumph for Vader - striking down the man he hates, who left him burning on the lava-banks of Mustafar - turns out to make him look a bit of a fool. The dark side isn't quite as powerful as he thinks it is ...

[Tarkheki JD]

Obi, you sly pooch you! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Tamu The Hutt]

What if Anakin had just... not jumped. He could have floated away down river and just disapeared... would Obi have failed if Anakin hadn't leapt? I mean, I guess Obi failed anyway by not makng sure he was dead before walking away, but... could have been way worse if that little gamb;e hadn't paid off, right?

[darth bangkok]

I'm not sure why anakin didn't just move his little floater thing to the side and then jump just out of reach of obi-wan so he could get set before they resumed fighting.

[Jacen Solo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>"It's over, Anakin! I have the high ground."

"You underestimate my power!"

"Don't try it."[/b][/quote]

But Anakin was so arrogant that he tried it anyway. Obi-Wan must have known something about Anakin here that we didn't -- perhaps that Anakin is vulnerable on slopes?

Now, suppose Anakin had kept going down the river, eh? It is my belief that Obi-Wan would have found some way to pursue him, by leaping atop something else or by even using the Force to summon another platform. He would have seen it through to the end.

There came a certain point in the confrontation where Obi-Wan realized just how far gone Anakin was. After seeing everything Anakin had done (i.e. choking Padme, killing the Separatists) and what he was up to ("YOUR new Empire?!"), something led him to completely give up on Anakin ("Then you are lost!"). We see this in ROTJ, when Obi-Wan is talking to Luke. "He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."

[darth bangkok]

Anakin had already flipped over Obi-wan's head from the small skiff to the large one. Nothing happened. I didn't mean that Anakin should have run away, I meant that he could have just gotten onto land safely and then started fighting again. I guess I was expecting Obi-wan to take advantage of an opportunity, like for example splashing lava burnt into Anankin's arm and distracted him for a second, rather than just out right defeat him. I assumed Anakin would be stronger than Obi-Wan

[JKRich]

Originally posted by Jacen Solo@May 22 2005, 10:29 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>"It's over, Anakin!* I have the high ground."

"You underestimate my power!"

"Don't try it."

But Anakin was so arrogant that he tried it anyway. Obi-Wan must have known something about Anakin here that we didn't -- perhaps that Anakin is vulnerable on slopes?

Now, suppose Anakin had kept going down the river, eh? It is my belief that Obi-Wan would have found some way to pursue him, by leaping atop something else or by even using the Force to summon another platform. He would have seen it through to the end.

There came a certain point in the confrontation where Obi-Wan realized just how far gone Anakin was. After seeing everything Anakin had done (i.e. choking Padme, killing the Separatists) and what he was up to ("YOUR new Empire?!"), something led him to completely give up on Anakin ("Then you are lost!"). We see this in ROTJ, when Obi-Wan is talking to Luke. "He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
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[/b][/quote]



He did say that from his point of view the jedi were evil.This gave Obi Wan no other choice but to finish it.

[Luminara Skye]

I think Obi-Wan knew he had to kill Anakin after he choked Padme and that little verbal exchange they had and he became more convinced as the fight progressed. He was very twisted to be able to justify the things he did. In his mind he was doing right or at least he had convinced himself that he was doing the right thing.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

[Sargoth]

^Agreed. Anakin was gone on so many levels at this point. Had he simply been centered on saving Padme when he fell, he perhaps could have been redeemed. But by the time Obi-wan appeared, Anakin showed the true nature of how far he had fallen. He no longer wanted simply the power to save Padme. He wanted power for the sake of power. He wanted the power to control. He even admitted his ambition to overthrow Palpatine and rule the galaxy himself. At this point, Anakin was a Sith Lord through and through.

As far as Obi-wan taking advantage of Anakin/Vader's "weakness": from what we've seen in AotC, ESB, and RotJ, the one weak spot he keeps opening up is his sword arm. This spot was hit in *three* of the six films. Most ironicly, this is the one limb that Obi-wan *doesn't* sever when Anakin jumps for him

[DarthAnakin]

After watching ROTS I have a new found respect for Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Max Starkiller]

So, what happened there in terms of Obi-Wan and An's relationship? And how does this effect the amount of times Ani has saved him?

[mtilden]

I was wondering when this question would show up! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif Honestly, I think Obi Wan was just making a joke.

[Darth Ridiculous]

it's humour. Like when you open a jar for someone and they say i loosened it for you

[lordmakalpine]

Read Labyrinth of Evil by James Luceno. Anakin flew at Obi-Wan and stabbed a droideka that was coming up to him.

[Thundercracker]

It's a reference to the events that happend in the Labyrinth of Evil book.

[Max Starkiller]

Originally posted by lordmakalpine@May 23 2005, 09:12 PM
Read Labyrinth of Evil by James Luceno. Anakin flew at Obi-Wan and stabbed a droideka that was coming up to him.
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There goes this thread.

[lordmakalpine]

I'm just saying what happened EU-wise. I haven't heard any alternative ideas about what happened on Cato Neimodia so I'll just go by the Lucasfilm sanctioned idea...

[Max Starkiller]

Don't bother, the only respectable EU is the official EU, which is licensed by George. In my opinion.

[lordmakalpine]

Luceno personally interviewed Lucas for his book. He probably asked him about the Cato Neimodia incident.

[Master_Mams]

Besides EU, the were more than one reference about "that time on cato neimodia" in the original screenplay of ROTS. Cody and obiwan mentioned it just before obiwan's first trip to utapau, just after cody's line:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Clone commander Cody: Come on boss, when have I ever let you down?.
they laugh.
Obiwan: (laughing)Cato Neimodia...for starters.
Obiwan climbs into his jedi starfighter.

Clone commander Cody: That was Anakin who was late, I believe.
Obiwan: Very well, the burden is on me not to destroy all the droids before you get there.
Clone commander Cody: I'm counting on you.[/b][/quote]

Pity it didn't make it into the final cut, but hopefully it will be in the DVD release.

[Tamu The Hutt]

Originally posted by Luminara Skye@May 23 2005, 05:42 PM
...He was very twisted to be able to justify the things he did. In his mind he was doing right or at least he had convinced himself that he was doing the right thing.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif
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Twisted, really? I mean, given what we know as the audience, sure. But given what Anakin knows? The best thing about the fall is that, given what Anakin knows, it seems reasonable. I totally would have made the same mistake. Except I would have kicked Obi Wan's tookus. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Mark Skywalker]

Originally posted by DarthAnakin@May 23 2005, 05:31 PM
After watching ROTS I have a new found respect for Obi-Wan Kenobi
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I liked Obi-Wan from since ANH, When I saw him In ESB & ROTJ, he still was cool. Then seeing him in TMP , AOTC & ROTS, He became my thrid favorite jedi.

Luke

Yoda

Obi-Wan

Adult Anakin (ROTS)

Mace

[Bretsch]

Originally posted by Tamu The Hutt+May 24 2005, 12:00 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tamu The Hutt @ May 24 2005, 12:00 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Luminara Skye@May 23 2005, 05:42 PM
...He was very twisted to be able to justify the things he did.* In his mind he was doing right or at least he had convinced himself that he was doing the right thing.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif
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Twisted, really? I mean, given what we know as the audience, sure. But given what Anakin knows? The best thing about the fall is that, given what Anakin knows, it seems reasonable. I totally would have made the same mistake. Except I would have kicked Obi Wan's tookus. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
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[/b][/quote]
^You would try style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Even if he thought he was doing the right thing at first, at some point (killing younglings) he must've realised that what he was doing was just plain wrong. He just convinced himself of the opposite, but I'm possitively shure that he knew.

[Luminara Skye]

Originally posted by Tamu The Hutt+May 23 2005, 11:00 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tamu The Hutt @ May 23 2005, 11:00 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Luminara Skye@May 23 2005, 05:42 PM
...He was very twisted to be able to justify the things he did.* In his mind he was doing right or at least he had convinced himself that he was doing the right thing.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif
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Twisted, really? I mean, given what we know as the audience, sure. But given what Anakin knows? The best thing about the fall is that, given what Anakin knows, it seems reasonable. I totally would have made the same mistake. Except I would have kicked Obi Wan's tookus. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
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[/b][/quote]

I agree that Anakin has been manipulated and he choices seemed reasonable to him. However, no matter what universe you're in something is wrong with you if you can justify slaughtering helpless children. The Jedi were Anakin's family. Palpatine had messed with his mind so much that he could just kill him family and feel like he was doing the right thing. Anakin was really easy to manipulate. In the opera house scene Palpatine was fishing to see what Anakin would respond to and then he'd aim at what he responded to--keeping someone alive.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

[brookie]

is it just me or does obi wan/ewan look rather pale throughout the entire film? maybe its just the lighting, but i thought in particular the dooku and grevious scenes. there were times i thought he was going to puke.

[darth bangkok]

Originally posted by Tamu The Hutt+May 24 2005, 12:00 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tamu The Hutt @ May 24 2005, 12:00 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Luminara Skye@May 23 2005, 05:42 PM
...He was very twisted to be able to justify the things he did.* In his mind he was doing right or at least he had convinced himself that he was doing the right thing.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif
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Twisted, really? I mean, given what we know as the audience, sure. But given what Anakin knows? The best thing about the fall is that, given what Anakin knows, it seems reasonable. I totally would have made the same mistake. Except I would have kicked Obi Wan's tookus. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
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[/b][/quote]

When they went outside, Anakin should have picked up Obi-Wan with the force like Dooku did and just flipped him over the side and into the lava.

[Kici]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>is it just me or does obi wan/ewan look rather pale throughout the entire film? maybe its just the lighting, but i thought in particular the dooku and grevious scenes. there were times i thought he was going to puke. [/b][/quote]

No. Ewan's just extremely fair skinned. Get Shallow Grave on DVD. He's just naturally very pale.

After ROTS, I also have a newfound respect for Obi-Wan. He really was between a rock and a hard place most of his life. It seems to me his great "sin" is that he loved Anakin and was blind to his faults...with tragic results for so many. Obi-Wan raised Anakin since he was nine years old. If anyone should have been able to predict how Anakin would have reacted to being asked to spy, Obi-Wan should have, but he didn't see.

He didn't want to see. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif All that tragedy because he had faith in someone who let him down viciously. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Mark Skywalker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>OBI-WAN : I have failed you, Anakin. I was never able to teach you to think.[/b][/quote]

Obi-Wan Kenobi says this to Anakin in ROTS

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>LUKE : I can't do it, Artoo. I can't go on alone.

BEN : (OS) Yoda will always be with you.

Luke looks up to see the shimmering image of BEN KENOBI.

LUKE : Obi-Wan! Why didn't you tell me?

LUKE : You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

BEN : You father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view.

LUKE : (turning away, derisive) A certain point of view!

BEN : Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Luke is unresponsive. Ben studies him in silence for a moment.

BEN : I don't blame you for being angry. If I was wrong in what I did, it certainly wouldn't have been for the first time. You see, what happened to your father was my fault ( Ben pauses sadly ). Anakin was a good friend.

Luke turns with interest at this. As Ben speaks, Luke settles on a stump, mesmerized. Artoo comes over to offer his comforting presence.

BEN : When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong. My pride has had terrible consequences for the galaxy.

Luke is entranced.

LUKE : There's still good in him.

BEN : I also thought he could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.

LUKE : I can't do it, Ben.

BEN : You cannot escape your destiny.

LUKE : I tried to stop him once. I couldn't do it.

BEN : Vader humbled you when first you met him, Luke...but that experience was part of your training. It taught you, among other things, the value of patience. Had you not been so impatient to defeat Vader then, you could have finished your training here with Yoda. You would have been prepared.

LUKE : But I had to help my friends.

BEN : (grinning at Luke's indignation) And did you help them? It was they who had to save you. You achieved little by rushing back prematurely, I fear.

LUKE : (with sadness) I found out Darth Vader was my father.

BEN : To be a Jedi, Luke, you must confront and then go beyond the dark side - the side your father couldn't get past. Impatience is the easiest door - for you, like your father. Only, your father was seduced by what he found on the other side of the door, and you have held firm. You're no longer so reckless now, Luke. You are strong and patient. And now, you must face Darth Vader again! [/b][/quote]

Then he says This To Luke in ROTJ.

[Ben-jit]

I don't know if this has already been raised, but having seen ROTS for the third time last night, the penny finally dropped on the whole "point of view" thing. It was Anakin who came up with this, so anyone who has a problem with Obi's POV in describing hoe Anakin was and that he wanted Luke to have his lightsaber, should reassess their issues.

When they are on the platforms fighting Obi says "Palpatine is evil" and Anakin replies, "from my point of view the Jedi are evil".

For me that really amplifies Obi's line when he says to Luke "many of the things we cling to depend greatly on our point of view".

I feel Obo Wan is completely vindicated - he largely did it for Luke's protection.

[Kici]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I feel Obo Wan is completely vindicated - he largely did it for Luke's protection.[/b][/quote]

Exactly. When we left the theater, my husband said it all gelled together in his mind and he could understand Obi-Wan a lot better. Of course he did it for Luke's protection. Obi-Wan was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. If he doesn't tell Luke the complete truth, he's a liar. If he does lay it all on the line for Luke on Tatooine....who knows how Luke would have reacted to the entire truth? You're our last hope. It's all on you, kid. Everything. Freedom for the galaxy.

No pressure. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif Did I mention your father was this abhorrent monster? I hope that doesn't make you feel guilty or overwhelmed. He murdered an entire temple full of children, but there's still good in him. Yeah, Luke was going to go into this thing with the proper mindset with all that information thrust at him. Even Yoda in ROTJ is surprised that Vader told Luke the truth. Luke had to come to the decision to do everything he did on his own.

Told you, he did. Most unexpected.

Yoda and Ben weren't going to tell Luke about the filial connection because they never expected Vader to tell Luke the truth. They thought Vader was irretrievably lost to the dark side. If Luke had known that his father had killed all those children and done what he did to Obi-Wan, he might have been prejudiced against him as well....as anybody would have been. Luke would have given up on Vader completely if Ben and Yoda had given Luke the full, ugly truth. As it turns out, Luke giving up on Vader would have been disastrous. It was Luke's faith in him that allowed Vader to break free from the emperor's grip and balance the force by killing him at last like he should have done years ago.

Your father broke my heart, Luke. Let me tell you this sad tale of how he betrayed me before you were born. I raised him from the time he was nine years old and he did such terrible things to me. If Obi-Wan had done that, people would be saying how terrible he was for manipulating Luke into feeling sorry for him and getting him to go risk his life. No wonder Owen was reluctant for Obi-Wan to interact with him. He'd raised Luke and didn't want him to die. It was understandable. That's why it drives me nuts when I hear the unreasonable criticism. What was Obi supposed to do? Kidnap Luke when he was a little boy from Owen and Beru and start training him against his will? Not a lot of perfect choices available to old Obi-Wan anymore.

[LadySylvia]

Originally posted by Ben-jit@Jun 3 2005, 04:57 AM
I don't know if this has already been raised, but having seen ROTS for the third time last night, the penny finally dropped on the whole "point of view" thing. It was Anakin who came up with this, so anyone who has a problem with Obi's POV in describing hoe Anakin was and that he wanted Luke to have his lightsaber, should reassess their issues.

When they are on the platforms fighting Obi says "Palpatine is evil" and Anakin replies, "from my point of view the Jedi are evil".

For me that really amplifies Obi's line when he says to Luke "many of the things we cling to depend greatly on our point of view".

I feel Obo Wan is completely vindicated - he largely did it for Luke's protection.
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Protection from what?

What right did Obi-Wan have to decide that Luke could not handle knowing the truth about his father? In the end, Luke proved him wrong. In fact, Luke proved Obi-Wan wrong about Anakin's character, as well.

[Kici]

Protection from being overwhelmed. Protection from Vader, whom Kenobi and Yoda believed to be irretrievably lost to darkness. Because he didn't want this young man to know that his father had done something so monstrous as murdering a temple full of children, perhaps? People try to protect people from things. It's a judgment call. Don't make it into an act of malice.

How could Kenobi have believed Vader wasn't irretrievably lost? He'd seen no evidence to the contrary. I continue to be surprised at how people are willing to make excuses for Anakin's behavior and judge other characters harshly. Anakin was responsible for his own behavior.

[Luminara Skye]

Or like Yoda tells Luke, he wasn't ready for the burnden of knowing who his father was. I think Yoda and Obi-Wan figured Luke would figure it out on his own but they hoped that it would have been after Vader was defeated. They were afraid of what that knowledge might have done to Luke. I think Luke reacted differently than they thought he would. He handled it pretty good. I can't help but wonder if Luke's feelings of there being good left in Vader/Anakin had anything to do with that being Padme's last words and Obi-Wan was standing there holding baby Luke the whole time.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

[clarkson88]

I dont think they would have been influenced by Padme. Luke had to ask Leia about her mother, (even though Padme died giving birth, perhaps it refers to Bail's wife). Luke came up with that conclusion of Vader still being good because it is in Lukes character.
I agrre with you that they hoped he would have defeated ader before he found out, but had he not found out would Vader have been redeemed by the love for his son?

[Kici]

Well, Luke was pretty special. The talk is always that Anakin balanced the force by killing the emperor, but I have to think that siring Luke was part of the equation. Luke was the balance. He could deal with his emotions and still function properly as a Jedi. He didn't have to suppress them.

Of course, not being around to have actually seen Vader help exterminate the Jedi and slaughter the children probably helped. To know about it is one thing--to see it happening is another. I can't blame Obi-Wan or Yoda for believing that Anakin was beyond redemption. If you'd seen someone commit such acts, it just wouldn't be natural for you to think the best of them anymore. Let's face it, manipulated or not, Anakin did horrific things. That look on McGregor's face when he saw Anakin in the security recordings was spot on. He is so talented. You could feel the character's pain. Very sad. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[clarkson88]

Originally posted by Kici@Jun 4 2005, 04:31 PM
Well, Luke was pretty special. The talk is always that Anakin balanced the force by killing the emperor, but I have to think that siring Luke was part of the equation. Luke was the balance. He could deal with his emotions and still function properly as a Jedi. He didn't have to suppress them.

Of course, not being around to have actually seen Vader help exterminate the Jedi and slaughter the children probably helped. To know about it is one thing--to see it happening is another. I can't blame Obi-Wan or Yoda for believing that Anakin was beyond redemption. If you'd seen someone commit such acts, it just wouldn't be natural for you to think the best of them anymore. Let's face it, manipulated or not, Anakin did horrific things. That look on McGregor's face when he saw Anakin in the security recordings was spot on. He is so talented. You could feel the character's pain. Very sad. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif
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good point. Lukes love and belief in redemption saved Anakin, contrasting with Yoda and Kenobi's view on destroying Darth Vader. They believed him beyond redemption.

[Darth Octavious]

In Ep1 why Obi-Wan didn't use Force Speed to help Qui-Gon defeat Darth Maul?

[Erick Landrider]

Obi-Wan was moving as fast as he could-at the speed of PLOT. It's nothing new for Lucas.

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by LadySylvia+Jun 3 2005, 05