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FerrisWiel
11-01-2002, 01:21 AM
What was it that Lucas intended doing for the sequel to Star Wars? Look no further than Splinter of the Mind's Eye, by none other than Lucas' own ghost-writer for the Star Wars novelization, Alan Dean Foster.

This was intended to be the filmed sequel until Harrison Ford signed back on. In it, Luke and Leia grow romantically attached, Luke has some success in defeating Vader, and Kaiburr Crystal, a charm that channels the Force (found in at least one draft of the old scripts), makes an appearance. Foster and Lucas deny the allegations, yet Ralph McQuarrie, art designer for the original trilogy, did the cover art on at least one version of the novel, a sign that some pre-production work had started on the nix'd film.

I like the novel primarily for the fact that it proves Lucas to be a liar. In those days, Lucas controlled licensing even more closely than he does now because 1. Lucasfilm wasn't big yet and 2. The franchise hadn't really taken off. He didn't simply "rubberstamp" Foster's book, he obviously had to have at least read it first and this was the only time during the making of the original trilogy that a book was published establishing stories that took place "between" episodes.

For obvious reasons, the content of this story is harshly contrary to Return of the Jedi and somewhat contradictory to parts of The Empire Strikes Back, more than anything, what stands out is the idea that Vader was not Luke's father in the beginning and Luke and Leia were not related (If you thought the kiss in ESB was incestuous, listen in on some of Luke's thoughts).

What's funny was that the sequel to Star Wars was going to be a low-budget sci-fi film because Lucas wasn't sure how much capital he would have at his disposal. With ANH generating the funds that it did, Lucas had the chance for a re-write, but still, the book stands as evidence diametrically opposed to anything he has said about his "complete vision."

--Ferris Wiel
"I'm sorry, Leia. I loved you."
-Luke Skywalker

Brian
11-01-2002, 10:45 AM
This belongs in Classic Star Wars.

Justin
11-01-2002, 10:47 PM
I've been saying this forever, that Lucas is a liar and that the revelations about Darth Vader, Luke, and Leia weren't planned from the beginning.

Unfortunately, a lot of people take Lucas' word as gospel truth, even though he's contradicted himself in the media multiple times.

QuigonWindu
11-01-2002, 11:02 PM
Yea he's been lying this whole time. I agree with yall.

FerrisWiel
11-03-2002, 01:39 PM
Unfortunatlier, the majority of OT fans have flown the coop after three consecutive bad SW films.

--Ferris Wiel
"Distributed by Inter-American Foods, Inc."
-Kroger's Big K Cola

Justin
11-03-2002, 03:20 PM
I don't think that's true. The majority of Star Wars fans thought Return of the Jedi was a good movie, thought The Phantom Menace could have been better and was kind of disappointing, and liked Attack of the Clones. That's what I've heard from almost everyone I've ever talked to about Star Wars.

Just because you and a few of your friends have the same opinion doesn't mean the majority of we fans agree with you.

FerrisWiel
11-03-2002, 03:38 PM
You forget. I have no friends.

--Ferris Wiel
"I have no friends. I walk alone."
-Jane Lane

Justin
11-03-2002, 04:11 PM
I'm not surprised.

FerrisWiel
11-03-2002, 04:12 PM
Hey, does that count as a flame?

--Ferris Wiel
"He's on fire!"
-Announcer, NBA Jam

Justin
11-03-2002, 04:33 PM
Not nearly as close to a flame as the blanket statements you've made about the Senators in your other posts.

bodhisattva yoda
11-03-2002, 04:47 PM
the different drafts for star wars were also vastly different. it's already obvious that lucas is a bit fickle about what he wants to do, but i think his 'vision' is very abstract, and his filmmaking techniques are somewhat improvisational. i don't think this makes him a liar. and as to whether or not he originally intended vader to be luke's father, even the empire script didn't contain that information for secretive purposes. darth vader meaning dark father in dutch is enough evidence to me about lucas' intentions about luke's relationship to vader.

Justin
11-03-2002, 04:49 PM
Darth Vader DOES NOT mean "dark father"!!!

FerrisWiel
11-03-2002, 04:54 PM
Flame blanket? Sounds toasty.

Darth Vader doesn't mean "Dark Father." Also, Beru spoke in a wistful tone about Luke's dad and how, "He's got too much of his father in him."

--Ferris Wiel
"Any yous guys wanna buy some fireworks?"
-Jay

bodhisattva yoda
11-04-2002, 12:02 AM
vader means father, anyway. which is what's important.

bodhisattva yoda
11-04-2002, 12:04 AM
and yeah. owen was obviously apprehensive about talking about luke's father.

FerrisWiel
11-04-2002, 12:13 AM
Owen simply didn't want Luke to grow up and get himself killed off for being an idealistic rabble-rousing revolutionary like his father was.

This before the historical re-write which set up Vader as Luke's daddy.

--Ferris Wiel
"Now this is pod racing!"
-Darth Vader

Justin
11-04-2002, 12:18 AM
The whole Dutch thing is merely a coincidence.

Look at "Darth Sidious." Now look at "Darth Vader."

Notice anything?

FerrisWiel
11-04-2002, 12:29 AM
*Raises hand*
Ooh! Ooh!
*Squirms in seat, raises hand higher*
Ooooh! I know!!! I know!!! They both have "quote marks" around their names, right?!?

--Ferris Wiel
"How am I supposed to know a power socket from a computer terminal?"
-C-3P0

Justin
11-04-2002, 12:38 AM
No. They both come from words with the prefix "in" dropped. Invader and insidious. That's all there is to it.

FerrisWiel
11-04-2002, 12:54 AM
Oh. Rounding.

--Ferris Wiel
"Bike Messenger."
-Peter Parker

Darth Vegas
11-04-2002, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by FerrisWiel@Nov 3 2002, 08:13 PM
Owen simply didn't want Luke to grow up and get himself killed off for being an idealistic rabble-rousing revolutionary like his father was.

This before the historical re-write which set up Vader as Luke's daddy.


You are so way off Wiel, GL indeed did have it in mind since his final draft of Star Wars that Darth Vader was Luke SKywalker's father.

"Luke's just not a farmer Owen, he has to much of his father in him."

"That's what I'm afraid of."

Why would Owen be afraid of Luke dying in combat, when the chances of him dying out in the desert were just as good?

What with the tusken raiders, and the krayt dragons and all?

You want to answer why he disliked Obi-Wan so much?

It's because he knew what happened to Anakin, and you'll see that in Episode 3.

As far as the cut love scenes between Luke and Leia in ESB, just remember that GL did not write ESB. I'm sure if he had there would never have been any of that crap.

Besides, it was cut from the film, for obvious reasons, all we saw was Leia kill Luke on the lips once, which was only to torment Han, she liked Han and she knew it.



Justin, the "whole Dutch thing" is not a coincidence. I believe that it was discussed in a biograpohy of GL, if I am not mistaken.

Justin
11-04-2002, 11:16 AM
Oh please.

Jedi D'oh
11-04-2002, 11:25 AM
I remember hearing that somewhere to, That Darth Vader meant Dark Father. I will see if I can find where I read that.

FerrisWiel
11-04-2002, 12:25 PM
Vader was a demon-man from day one. In every incarnation of the SWIV script. And yes, Owen would prefer that Anakin stay behind on Tatooine because it was at least a calculated risk, and he would have another hand to help out with the family inheritance - the moisture farm. Look at it from the perspective of NOT having seen the other films.

Luke and Leia kissed in ANH "for luck." Luke looked at her longingly several times, and in all incarnations of the SWIV scripts the primary young male adventurer was romantically attracted to her.

Finally, Lucas didn't write ESB?!? He at least had veto power. He didn't just blindly wander off. Now I'll say that he wasn't responsible for the majority of positives that ESB brought with it, but he definitely was responsible for the elements being canonical.

--Ferris Wiel
"Don't just stand there, try and brace it with something!"
-Leia Organa

Sgt_Jedi
11-08-2002, 01:20 PM
look at www.imdb.com under star wars 1977
It says that Darth Vader=Dark Father in Dutch.

FerrisWiel
11-08-2002, 02:00 PM
Those pieces of "Trivia" are put there by IMDB users, not by anyone in an official capacity.

--Ferris Wiel

darthfool
11-11-2002, 07:41 AM
This is kind of a long post but I'm just trying to cover everything that has been discussed on this thread and give my opinion.

Star Wars 2: Splinter Of The Minds Eye
I like this book and it offers a great elseworlds style version of Star Wars. Various sources have claimed it was to be a sequel to the original film but the official stance is that was only if the original flopped.
This strikes me as a bit odd. Why make ANY kind of sequel to a flop?

The fans view on the Star Wars saga
People argue about what they like and tell other people what they like so I might as well do the same:

1. The geeky fan-boy/girl - Love all Star Wars films as they have a grasp of the big picture. They understand the reasons for everything and are perfectly happy with things. Claim TPM only has "minor" flaws.

2. The Star Wars Hater - Star Wars as in the bigger story. These fans loved the original film (which they will only ever refer to as "Star Wars"). They didn't like Vader suddenly becoming Lukes father in "Empire" but it's a good film so they let it slide. Jedi opens and they are horrified - teddy bears, a rehash of the original and a crap twist for the sake of having a twist.
Menace opens and things are worse. Clones opens and it's better than Menace. However they are so disillusioned with the saga at this point that it would have to be the best SW film ever if they are to like it. It isn't and their hatred guarantees that they will not like Episode III.

3. The casual fan - This type of fan is normal. They don't post on messege boards because thats just too geeky. They loved the original trilogy but when they saw TPM they didn't like it. Deffintly not as good as the original three. Clones opens and they love it as it's just like the old films. They too are happy but willl only pick up TPM if they see it on offer or in the bargin bin.

The above is just a rough guide to the types of fans but everyone can be placed roughly in one of the three categories.

Darth Vader = Dark Farther
Not as far as I know. In France all the sith lords are called Dark rather than Darth; Dark Vader, Dark Maul et cetera. So I'm guessing that that's why people are claiming Darth = Dark.
I have heard that Vader=Farther in some language but I'm not sure where or what.

The original big plan
As I understand it the original Star Wars was "A New Hope" but with the "Return Of The Jedi" Death Star Battle (no Luke-Vader-Palpatine bit tho) and somewhere along the way they visit a place like cload city.
As anyone does, in writing this Lucas came up with a back story - a section of which is in the Hope novel.

When it came to empire he added new stuff (Yoda - a replacement for the now dead Obi-wan) and borrowed stuff from earlier drafts (the farther) set this arround what he did have (cload city) and we have the first sequel. As a result of this however the back story has gained extra material (who is Yoda? what's Vader's story?). Lucas realises that he could make more films out of the backstory and so in 1979 Star Wars becomes "Star Wars - Episode IV: A New Hope" and Empire opens as "Episode V" rather than "Episode II".

Lucas decides the final chapter will see the redemption of Anakin. Kurtz walks.
Jedi comes out and Lucas splits the film in two. Part 1 - new stuff (get the heros back together again). Part 2 - the original end battle but now it's the backdrop to the redemption of Anakin. For no reason whatsoever he decides that Leia is Lukes sister (although the farther and two kids idea is again vaguely present in early versions).

Lucas then decides to only make 6 films rather than 9. As he only has back story and not the aftermath covered this makes sense. For the Jedi Special Edition he adds a mention of "the son of the sun" (again borrowed from an early draft) and Star Wars becomes Anakins story rather than the Skywalkers.

Lucas fleshes out the backstory into three films again borrowing from earlier drafts (names, and settings) as well as new material. Boba Fett's role changes (as admitted in articles and on the Clones commentary) and some elements (Qui-Gons dis-embodied voice) are added as he goes along but it is all carfully planned out. Some people don't believe him. Oh well.

So that is how IMO Star Wars will have elvoved into what it will be in 2005. He's not just making it up as he goes along, things have changed, new stuff has been added but there is a form to all this.
At the same time it needs to be acknowledged that in "A New Hope" Vader wasn't Lukes farther and in "Empire" Leia wasn't his sister.
Still, have faith people. It will work.

Shoma Barad
11-11-2002, 10:30 AM
I read the early drafts of 'Star Wars' today. While some character names keep pooping up, and a few ideas continue to flow right through, its easy to see while reading them that his mind wasn't on a 6 part saga- he wanted to make one big Sci-fi flick.

As for the three categories of fan- i don't fit in any of those categories. TPM has huge flaws, I do post on message boards, i like AOTC coz it was closer to the original films etc. etc. I don't believe SW fans CAN be pigeon holed, unless you divide us into 'Normal' and 'Fan-boy'.

Lucas didn't have a huge plan, and still doesn't. He has plot points he has to cover, and he might have a general idea of where he needs to end up at the conclusion of the prequels, but the whole thing is being done almost by the seat of his pants.

GL readily admits that while he was shooting TPM he was re-writing bits of the script, and even adding new scenes. He is making it up as he goes along- and that is costing him, and us, in terms of quality.

Personally, i'd rather wait a few extra years for an incredible episode III, than have him rush it and leave millions of fans disappointed worldwide.

But hey, this is star wars... so no matter what he does with his saga, there's gonna be millions of people who kick and scream. That's life.

I'd like to get my hands on a copy of SOTME... I've never read it.

~~Shoma

Shoma Barad
11-11-2002, 10:33 AM
I just realised some of that might sound a little condescending.. not my intention. No offence intended at/to anyone.

~~Shoma

Jedi D'oh
11-11-2002, 10:38 AM
I remember hearing that it was originally intended to be one long movie, and the Ewoks are a scaled down version of a Wookie ground battle he wanted, but they were to be a primitive race. When Jedi came around, he didn't want to do it with wookies cause Chewie was established as a very intelligent creature, hence the Ewoks.

Shoma Barad
11-11-2002, 10:50 AM
The Ewoks were intelligent?!?!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

~~Shoma

darthfool
11-12-2002, 06:24 AM
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
My "the original big plan" was meant to show how Star Wars has evolved and not (as the title suggests) state the original big plan. Sorry, my bad.
Like I detailed in the first paragraph of that section, the so called big plan was pretty much all shown on screen in 1977.

As for the three categories of fan, well I don't really fit in to any either. They are meant as a semi-humourous way at how other fans see you.
For example I roughly fit in to the geeky fanboy category. Although that's not how I see myself. I'm just a fan. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
Also I'd rate the films:
[3/5] [5/5] [?/5] [5/5] [5/5] [4/5]
so I'm hardly "perfectly happy with things" but I don't really fall into the other categories.

Anyway just thought I'd clear that up.

Would have responded sooner but my PC kept turning itsef off.

Mothman
11-12-2002, 07:21 PM
On 11/11, darthfool said:
Darth Vader = Dark Farther
Not as far as I know. In France all the sith lords are called Dark rather than Darth; Dark Vader, Dark Maul et cetera. So I'm guessing that that's why people are claiming Darth = Dark.
I have heard that Vader=Farther in some language but I'm not sure where or what.

Well, to set the record straight, back in the early 1980's, it was GL himself who said that the name "Darth Vader" suggests "Dark Father". I remember him saying it in an interview (but, unfortunately, I can't remember exactly which one it was). If I remember right, this was shortly after ESB came out and Georgie was trying to justify the "Vader is Luke's father" plotline.

Shoma Barad
11-12-2002, 09:22 PM
Yeah, sounds like something Lucas would say...

Reporter: "Darth Vader sounds alot like Dark Father. Was that a clue for the audience, to tip us off about what was going to happen in ESB?"

Lucas: <thinks, Hey! I never noticed that! What a great idea!> "Oh, absolutely! I mean, I can't believe people didn't get that in the first film... because you know, I've totally planned <Quick! Think of a number!>9 <nice!> of these movies... and like, it's all ready to go... so uh, yeah, Darth Vader was MEANT to sound like Dark Father... it's um, Swedish, or something."

Reporter: "Mr. Lucas, you're a genious!"

Lucas: "Yeah, I know. Cool, huh? Hey, dig my flannel shirt... <hehehe... suckers...>

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

~~Shoma

James
11-12-2002, 11:43 PM
I've never thought of Darth Vader= Dark father...what the heck?!???

I'm glad GL made TESB instead of Splinter of the Mind's eye though, because I didn't enjoy that book...

Shoma Barad
11-14-2002, 08:58 AM
Pfft.. as if ANYTHING could be better than the sequel we got... Empire is an amazing film.. perfect? No. But amazing, nonetheless.

~~Shoma

Brian
11-14-2002, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Darth James@Nov 12 2002, 10:43 PM
I'm glad GL made TESB instead of Splinter of the Mind's eye though, because I didn't enjoy that book...
I totally agree! That book was not that good at all!

James
11-14-2002, 03:45 PM
Thankyou O-B-gates

FerrisWiel
11-14-2002, 07:05 PM
Regardless of the sequel we got (my favorite of the Star Wars films), SOTME just displays Lucas' intents (or lack thereof).

--Ferris Wiel

Lord Laviathan
11-25-2002, 07:44 PM
This pointless bickering is going to gert all of you no where why dont you go and look up the real facts and then present them,but thats just it theres is no way to ever no GL is certainly not goin to say hes been lying and theres no way to prove otherwise.

FerrisWiel
11-25-2002, 07:50 PM
3 points, Leviathan:

1. Intent is clearly outlined by the plots, lines, notes and additional approved and genuine information, which I cited.

2. The bickering ended quite a while back.

3. If you keep digging up my old posts somebody will start accusing me of being a doppleganger.

(The last point was a joke)

--Ferris Wiel

Justin
11-25-2002, 11:09 PM
I just went back and looked at one of Shoma Beard's posts, in which he said:
While some character names keep pooping up, and a few ideas continue to flow right through

YUCK!!!

bullumhead
11-26-2002, 02:57 AM
look back to the early drafts of the star wars script, when luke's name was luke starkiller. luke was one of the son's of the starkiller and the bad guy's name was DARTH VADER. the name was around even back then...when there was no chance GL intended Vader to be luke's father. so the whole DARK FATHER thing really doesn't hold water...it sounds like it was just a cool sounding name.

FerrisWiel
11-26-2002, 10:17 AM
Roger that. 10-4, good buddy.

--Ferris Wiel

The Prism
11-30-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Justin@Nov 1 2002, 09:47 PM
I've been saying this forever, that Lucas is a liar and that the revelations about Darth Vader, Luke, and Leia weren't planned from the beginning.
I'm not so sure about that. I think I remember hearing somewhere that SOTME was going to be the Star Wars sequel IF the movie wasn't successful enough. That's why Lucas kept the rights to sequels so he could make them regardless of who distributed it. But, because ANH was HUGE, he took the opportunity to make the rest of the story he originally planned.

I could be completely wrong about this, and Lucas could be a big liar, but I remember reading that somewhere.

kopernikuz
03-17-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Justin@Nov 25 2002, 10:09 PM
I just went back and looked at one of Shoma Beard's posts, in which he said:
While some character names keep pooping up, and a few ideas continue to flow right through

YUCK!!!
Justin, LOL!


I just read the graphic novel version of this book this weekend.

AWFUL.

Is it awful because I know the backstory that is created now? Or is it awful because it's just awful?

There were a lot of dumb things in this book, but nothing was worse than a lightsaber battle... ending with Luke slicing off Darth Vader's arm... the arm laying there with the lightsaber still in it and ignited. Darth Vader advancing on the injured Luke, picks up the lightsaber from his severed arm, says something menacing about Luke's impending doom... then proceeds to trip over his own damn severed arm and falls into a chasm to his death.

Come on!?!?!?! That is a worse death scene than Boba's in ROTJ. This is how the GN ended... don't know if the book was exactly that way. I almost threw the book. Not to mention I thought the whole crystal that magnifies the force was really dumb IMHO.

I had more than a few chuckles about this crummy story. Thank God it was never ESB.

Though I did find it interesting to see DV using Sith Lightning on Luke.

Darth Badly
03-18-2003, 07:09 PM
I just read this whole topic. I can't believe I missed it on it's first outing in November.

Good call, Ferris.

I remember reading S of the Mind's Eye when it first came out.

It is amazing proof (and proof that I'd completely forgotten during these arguments in the Clowns thread in the summer) about just how "planned" the entire SW story really was.

First there was SW, then it became a hit, then Uncle George decided that Vader was Luke's dad etc. Likewise the new decisions made between ESB and ROTJ.

I love you all. (But particularly Ferris for reminding me of a part of my childhood that I'd completely forgotten - but yeah, hey I remember Vader tripping over his own arm. Even at 10 I knew that was crap.)

Darth Vegas
03-19-2003, 12:09 AM
If anybody hasn't pointed this out yet, SOTME was written and planned to be a sequel only if Star Wars bombed at the box office.

Darth Badly
03-21-2003, 02:43 PM
Ferris - Can you confirm what Agent Bond says?

Darth Vegas
03-21-2003, 02:50 PM
Uneccessary Badly, just read this interview with the author himself:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/interviews/a...deanfoster1.htm (http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/interviews/alandeanfoster1.htm) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Erick Landrider
03-22-2003, 10:57 PM
Vader wasn't suppose to Luke's Father
Luke and Liea were originally meant to be in love, not siblings
Bens character was originally named Luke

I know after this looking at www.starwarz.com/starkiller/scripts.htm

Look at the Story Synopsis or Rough Draft they both prove Papa Vader came later

Darth Vegas
03-23-2003, 02:15 AM
Yeah, the Starkiller scripts were written a few years before the final draft of Star Wars, before George ever struck a deal with 20th century fox. And of course alot of things changed while he was first getting his story on paper.

The first script he gave them was a about a Jedi named Mace Windu, and his Padawan learner. 20th Century Fox asked him to do a different version of the script, something that wasn't as long and complex, and that's when he sat down to write the script for Star Wars, that's when he created his short backstory for Episode's 1-3 that he told throughout Episodes 4-6.

Surely there were several changes throughout the course of writing ESB and ROTJ, but even the earliest draft ESB revealed Darth Vader to be the father, hell it is hinted out in ANH, by Ben's hatred with Obi-Wan and how he doesn't want Luke to have anything to do with him because he was afraid he had too much of his father in him. Really ESB starts to reveal that Leia is his sister, when at cloud city she hears him through the Force, that was a big clue there.

And as previously stated, SPlinter of the Mind's Eye was only written and meant to be a cheap sequel to Star Wars only if it wasn't successful, and because George wanted to make sure the fans had more Star Wars stuff to keep them interested.

Darth Badly
03-23-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Mar 23 2003, 07:15 AM


And as previously stated, SPlinter of the Mind's Eye was only written and meant to be a cheap sequel to Star Wars only if it wasn't successful, and because George wanted to make sure the fans had more Star Wars stuff to keep them interested.

Serious question:

Given that Star Wars was a huge hit from the day it came out (and certainly within a few weeks) why release it at all then?

Darth Badly
03-23-2003, 02:03 PM
T: You mentioned filming, and I do remember reading that "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" was actually supposed to end up being the sequel film to Star Wars. Is this true to your knowledge and if so, how did it end up remaining a book?

Well, I just went and answered my own question. See the paragraph below from an interview with Alan Dean Foster.

QUOTE:
ADF: When George commissioned SPLINTER, he wanted me to write a story that could be filmed on a low budget. That's why, for example, everything takes place on a fog-shrouded planet. His idea was that if SW didn't flop, wasn't a huge success, but maybe made a few bucks, he would have a story in hand that could be done using many of the props, costumes, etc., from the first film. It's the approach of a good engineer, who always includes a backup system in his design.
The book was written and completed before SW was released, hence it was always intended to appear as a book. Also, proceeding on the assumption that the film was a success, George didn't want any fans to have to sit around and wait for the next film...he wanted them to have additional SW material available.

END QUOTE:

That also answers for good a question that was asked and debated during the Clowns thread many times. Namely proving that even when Uncle George had finished SW he had not yet decided that Vader was Luke's father, or Leia was his sister.

He really does make this crap up as he goes along.

Darth Vegas
03-23-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Darth Badly@Mar 23 2003, 10:03 AM
It's the approach of a good engineer, who always includes a backup system in his design.
And that's what Splinter was, a backup, nothing more, nothing,less.

RollaFett
03-23-2003, 03:52 PM
The first script he gave them was a about a Jedi named Mace Windu

Sorry to be picky, but it was actually Mace Windy, with a 'y'.

Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007 Posted on Mar 23 2003, 01:15 AM
Surely there were several changes throughout the course of writing ESB and ROTJ, but even the earliest draft ESB revealed Darth Vader to be the father, hell it is hinted out in ANH, by Ben's hatred with Obi-Wan and how he doesn't want Luke to have anything to do with him because he was afraid he had too much of his father in him. Really ESB starts to reveal that Leia is his sister, when at cloud city she hears him through the Force, that was a big clue there.

Hey, I agree with you Bond! It's rare, so I got surprised. I suppose that you mean Owen, however, and not Ben.
It's so obvious while watching ESB that Leia is going to be revealed as Luke's sister. Sure I was surprised at first, but when you go back and look at all of the blatent clues, it becomes obvious. The fact that the kiss was kept in the movie gives people a reason to say that GL made up the sibling thing at the last moment or something. I'll admit that GL does seem to make a lot of it up as he goes along, but let's not forget one impotant fact. This whole universe is made up! And don't give me any of that 'borrowing elements' crap, because that is an entirely different subject. Besides, borrowing elements from other works is not an uncommon practice amongst artists/writers/creators.

Darth Vegas
03-23-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by GollaFett@Mar 23 2003, 11:52 AM
Sorry to be picky, but it was actually Mace Windy, with a 'y'.


:sigh:

Hey, I agree with you Bond! It's rare, so I got surprised. I suppose that you mean Owen, however, and not Ben.

Yeah I meant Owen. :dunce:

Jedi D'oh
04-13-2003, 03:54 AM
Does anyone realize that the early versions of SW were nothing more than a writer's idea? Does a writer have not the right to change his or her own ideas in the process? If something seems to fit, should they leave it out? I think no.

So in the original rough drafts things were different than they became. Is that reason to bash Lucas as being an idiot? I don't think so. If the story changed to suit an idea that he had at the time, so be it.

SOTME was a book i recently found in a book store and bought because i lost my copy as a child. I read it and found many faults with it. Only because the story is as it is today. When it was written, it was only a year after the original movie came out. no one had any idea that the movie would be such a fan fave or that it would be an iconic flick. The story is from the imagination.

If SOTME became the sequel, this discussion would not exist and the SW story would not be the same as we know it today. Think about it.