Obi-Wan's Memory Wipe

[JediBendu]

an old concept I thought I'd rehash

The time when the twins will be separated would be an ideal time for the droids to have the memories wiped, but also a good time for Obi as well.
It would explain why Obi doesn't know about Leia while negating the need to have the twins birthed separately. It also explains why Obi doesn't 'seem to remember ever owning a droid'.
The memory wipe would have to be targeted, with only selected memories removed. More than likely could only be performed by Yoda, probably at Alderaan just prior to departing for Dagobah. Obi then travels with Yoda who fills in any blanks as he sees necessary in keeping the secret. Obi then travels on to Tatooine none the wiser.

[Blizzard]

Are you serious? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

[Obidobi]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif
I don`t belive that.
I belive that OB1 didn`t know about Leia.
R2 did never belong to OB1 so that is why he says he don`t remember ever owning a droid. I belive that it was bad translation by 3PO when he said R2 was the propherty of a man called Obi wan Kenobi. :look:

[yodagirl]

Yeah, but Obi never actually owned R2 & 3P0, did he? He wasn't lying or suffering from a memory-wipe. Anakin constructed 3P0 *in TPM and didn't R2 belong to Padme *originally?

It makes sense that the droids will have their own memories wiped btwn Ep III & Ep IV, though. Otherwise they'd have blown the Skywalker family secret!

[JediBendu]

completely serious
A back up plan from Yoda to protect Leia.
I don't make the distinction between 'ever owning a droid' and 'ever seeing the same droid droid that Anakin happened to own (or Padme)'
At the very least he should recognise the names.

I'm not talking about a total memory wipe. Just the particular memories associated with Leia. Jedi's are already effecting the minds of the weak, a powerful Jedi could effect the mind of another Jedi, if he was a willing participant.

of course the theory falls down if you consider ESB ' that boy is our last hope' implying Obi doesn't know but ROJ 'that is why your sister remains safely anonymous' implying he did know.

[Obidobi]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif
At that point he did know.
"That boy is our only hope"
"No there is another"

He had a little chat with Yoda after Luke left them at Dagobah.
That is why he knows. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bigsmile.gif

[JediBendu]

ya
but that's assuming a lot so I wasn't going to mention it.

I started thinking about it after I watched SW last night (note classic not special) When Obi chases of the sand people from an unconcious Luke, he bends down and places his fingers on Luke's temple, as though he's doing a Jedi healing trick with Luke's mind to bring him round. I was picturing Yoda doing kinda the same thing.

[Blizzard]

Obi-Wan knew all about Leia. He just has his own point of view to everything. And he didn't remember owning a droid because he was old, old people forget. *:sarcasm:

And in my opinion only C-3PO will have a memory wipe. R2 knows everything, he's just good at keeping secrets.

[JediBendu]

60's isn't that old
although I would go with dementure brought on by extreme isolation
Makes sense re R2 - fits his character to a tee

[Jedi Master Gandalf]

Are you guys serious? Are you actually believing that Obi-Wan's memory was erased?? :but:

Of course he knows about Leia in ROTJ. Yoda told him about her just as Luke left in Empire. I mean, he's not just going to end the conversation at "No, there is another." That would be like, "No, there is another. Well, you want some coffee?"

I'm sorry but its ludicrous to say that Obi-Wan's memory was erased. Threepio and Artoo, yes. But a human? Come on!

[Blizzard]

LOL!

[Obidobi]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif
I don`t think it is assuming. We did see their conversation but the scene was cut before he told him, so the secret not to be revealed for us poor deadly. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/alien.gif

[JediBendu]

ok so then someone explain how he didn't know about Leia until ESB
fair enough it's possible to have twins delivered separately, with considerable time between. But it would mean Obi grabs Luke straight away and doesn't realise there's another on the way. Hello - they're Jedi! how about sensing the little bugger's minds in the womb.
and it's not a total wipe, just selective. Obi would come round and say 'Yoda why are standing above me?'

[Blizzard]

Because Lucas wouldn't write something as goofy and a memory wipe just to explain Ben's not knowing.

[Obidobi]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif
Maybe Padme was alone giving birth?
Maybe OB1 was on the other end of the galaxy when they were born and Yoda was there? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

[JediBendu]

he's written about an immaculate conception and used it as a central them - pretty goofy
next to that, a memory - let's call it adjustment shall we - would be pretty normal

[Blizzard]

Ok, Bendu, you got me there. Besides, didn't he steal the immaculate conception thing from the bible. ;)

[Jedi Master Gandalf]

No a memory wipe delivered to Obi-Wan would just be off-the-wall stupidity, and I don't think Lucas would ever do something that crazy.

Yoda, and possibly Mace, were present at Padme's labor. Obi-Wan wasn't. There, mystery solved.

[JediBendu]

yeah I read that on a post somewhere style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

I could go with obidobi however. *I would mean that Yoda's got luke on Dagobah for a considerable period while Obi's absent. *'I don't know, there's something familiar about this place'

to Gandalf
It's not that far off the wall considering that Obi's already made some dealer go home and re-think his life. Jedi's are messing with people's heads all the time.

[Obidobi]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif
U are a wise man Gandalf style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[catwmnjedi]

<span style='color:#daa500'>Obi-Wan wouldn't need a memory wipe to be confused... just a wild night with Tark would've done the trick... *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

Or maybe he had early stages of Alzheimer's...

When Obi-Wan says "Hello there!" to R2 in ANH, it seems to me like he recognized the droid. *I don't think he forgot, just didn't want to admit he knew to Luke yet. *Maybe seeing R2 again was a sign to him that it was "time" to get to know Luke better and start explaining the Force and his heritage to him.</span>

[Jedi Master Gandalf]

Thank you, obidobi! ;)

[JediBendu]

ok I'll concede
It would be unlikely that Obi would have his memory messed with to explain why he hasn't heard of Leia.

At least we've worked out that Obi can't be at the birth :p

but if GL throws it in I'll remember you all in my fits of laughter :D :D

[Jedi Master Gandalf]

And I'll walk out of the theater in pure horror. :happy:

[Blizzard]

LOL Cat! :hehe:

[catwmnjedi]

And who says Obi-Wan didn't know about Leia? When he says Luke is the last hope of the Jedi, maybe he only DISCOUNTED Leia because he figured she was not strong enough in the Force or that no one had trained her. Doesn't mean he didn't know she existed. He wouldn't have recognized her necessarily if the last time he saw her was as a baby!

Actually, I think he may have indeed recognize her when he watched her holo... another sign it was time to start Luke's training.

[Jedi Master Gandalf]

No, I highly doubt that he knew about Leia.

[catwmnjedi]

Thanks Blizz... I thought you'd appreciate that one! ;)

[JediBendu]

It could go either way - he does know or he doesn't.
If he does you can still view the OT as unchanged as cat states. If he doesn't same applies.

[Justin]

Why do you think Obi-Wan didn't know about Leia? In The Empire Strikes Back, Yoda isn't telling him about her for the first time, he's just reminding him. Why would Yoda need to erase his memory to protect her? He's a Jedi Knight, I doubt he would go blabbing it to anybody.

And Obi-Wan never owned R2-D2. He belongs to Padme.

[Polunis]

Don't any of you remember the look on Obi-Wan's face after he watched the holographic message? It seemed that he recognized her, and that gave him all the more of a desire to bring Luke along with him. Watch ANH again. This idea is, after all, debatable; however, I think it is compelling.

[JediBendu]

If Obi was in insolation for 20 years while Luke was growing up, how would he possibly know what Leia looked like? Bail Organa sent him update photos? I think not. His reaction was simply due to the General Kenobi intro, he realised the serious of the matter prior to her saying anything else.

[cornixcuror]

My take on things is simple and does not include a mind wipe (Though I must say that its an interesting idea.)

1. Obi Wan was not present at the birth of Leia and Luke, though I'm certain that Yoda was.

2. The droids never were owned by Obi Wan, but I think that he is a bit surprised that R2 entered his life again. Though I have fooled around with the idea that R2 was sent with Leia as a "watcher" aka an early warning system about Leia's activities. Which means that his memory was never wiped. 3PO on the other hand never had a chance, he memory was wiped for certain, he's build as a chatter box.

3. As for when Obi Wan sees that message from Leia, I think that he may see Leia as what she is a senator that has spoken out often and laudly about the injustices of the Empire. Obi Wan lives on Tattoine, one of the furthest planets from the galactic core but I'm certain that he has learned to gather all types of info since needed excile. Perhaps even he can sense the strength of Leia's bond to the Force though her, empassioned speechs and noble actions.
* * Though I think its more of a future-vision about her importance to the Rebellion. We have not seen to what level Obi Wan's abilities strech into visions so it's completely possible that he did not see her as Vader's daughter. But if you watch there appears to be more recogniton of Obi Wan's face then just casual concern.

cornixcuror

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

Obi-wan could be at the birth.....of Luke. Luke could be handed off the Obi-wan, as he is told to "hide" the child. Obi-wan leaves with Luke. After Obi-wan is gone, somebody says "By the power of Greyskull!!!! There is another one!!" (O.K., the dialog could be off a little!?!) Obi-wan takes Luke to the Lars household, and remains on Tatooine, without further contact with the rest of the crew. He wouldn't have the opportunity to know about the female twin.

[Polunis]

JediBendu, I think your assessment deserves a reply. Obi knew who she was referring to when she said, "For years you fought with my father in the Clone Wars..." Her words were more true than she realized, of course, but that is not what I am trying to get across. He knew about Alderaan as well as her "father", Bail Organa. He undoubtedly knew, at least from memory, where Leia ended up. Now is the opportunity for Obi to reunite the family, if it be possible.

I hope this has proved helpful.

[JediBendu]

'That boy is our last hope'

If he knew about Leia as Luke's brother then he would assume that she's force sensitive. If Luke's the 'last hope' then he's discounting the existence of another force sensitive Skywalker, until Yoda THEN tells him 'there is another'.

I don't think he would be unaware of Princess Leia, as cornixcuror :exclamation: says, Obi would pay attention to the fall of the Empire.

Either way, we're talking some hard core duplicity going on.

and NIGHT - if I here 'by the power of greyskull' I'm walking straight out style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[echoseven]

No way does Obi get his memory erased. *He may or may not know about Leia until Yoda tells him and so many droids look the same, I doubt he would recognize R2 and 3PO by sight after 20 years. *He never owned R2 anyway. *Besides, I can't remember if I owned a droid 20 years ago. *

I agree that he may have discounted Leia and Yoda reminds him for dramatic effect (so the audience knows)
If Ben did know of Leia, then he would recognize her from the hologram because he would know who she is.
But it is very possible that Luke was born first and Ben took him not even witnessing Leia's birth. Either way it should be interesting

Just my opinions.

[QuigonWindu]

OK here's what I think. First, Obi-Wan doesnt remeber R2-D2 because it was 20 years since he last saw him. He doesnt remember C-3P0, because they never met. The only time he ever saw 3P0 was on Geonosis when he was attatched to a different body.

[DblDwn]

That's a good point. Through Episode II in the prequels, Obi-Wan has never encountered 3PO. Even on Geonosis he had more important matters on his mind, like survival, to notice a specific droid amidst all the other droids he had to worry about. He never owned R2 either, she belonged to Padme and then to Captain Antilles. So he doesn't lie about having never owned a droid. I don't think he knows about Leia based on the, I know it's been beaten to death around here, but his comment to Yoda after Luke leaves in ANH. If he did know about Leia then he is nothing more than a sexist for assuming that Leia wasn't an option if and when Luke failed. I don't think he is a sexist, I really don't think he knows about her. When the twins are born he could be of fighting Anakin, or doing some other stuff, and when he shows up, Leia has already been taken to Alderaan and only Luke remains for him to take to Tatooine.

[DblDwn]

Yeah, I know..........typos all over the place. That's what I get for trying to quickly type out 3 or 4 ideas at a time. So let's see.......take out the "she belonged to Padme" and replace that with 'he', I'm not trying to start a rumor that R2 was a switch hitting droid or anything. Also change "when Luke leaves in ANH" and obviously make that ESB. Lastly that should say that Obi-Wan could be "off fighting Anakin." Well that about fixes that mess. Sorry.

[JediBendu]

ok so that leaves it down to Yoda - he must then convince Padme of the decision to separate her (recently born) children. How would anyone do that? Let alone a Jedi. Bail Organa's more than likely going to be there - so I'm betting the separation will be on Alderaan, followed by Yoda travelling to Dagobah with Luke, Obi arriving soon after, perhaps just after his Anakin battle, carrying Anakin's lightsaber.

[thelandosystem]

I think Obi Wan knew about Leia as well but felt that Luke was the stronger of the two due to him being a male as was his father and being exposed to the teachings of Obi-Wan and Yoda. Don't get me wrong Leia is a tough personality but she would easily get smacked around by Vador in any fight.

[JediBendu]

Seeing how we're entertaining...ideas about a shapeshifting palpy/sidious/sifo, figured this deserves a bump

:::bump:::

hehe over a year old - gettin pretty rancid down the bowells of the Senate now style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Jedi Killer]

this is the dumbest topic ever

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Jun 14 2002, 05:19 AM
ok so then someone explain how he didn't know about Leia until ESB '

Hang on, who says Ben doesn't know that Leia & Luke are kin.

His line "That's boy is our last hope" might well just reflect the fact that he is just that. Leia has shown little force sense up to that point (if any) and has had NO training.

If vader had killed or seduced Luke then what chance would a hardly trained Leia had against both of them??

None - I'd say and that's why Ben recognises that "that boy is our last hope."

[Jedi Killer]

exactly. cause Yoda's days were numbered and who would train her

[jbird669]

No one knows that Padme is pregnant with Twins, and when Luke is born Obi-Wan immediately takes him away. Then Leia is born, and tehn Bail decides to take her in.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by jbird669@Jun 17 2003, 11:13 AM
No one knows that Padme is pregnant with Twins, and when Luke is born Obi-Wan immediately takes him away. Then Leia is born, and tehn Bail decides to take her in.
We don't know that for sure though

[jbird669]

Sorry, that last post is speculation. I thought that was what the this thread was.

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by Darth Badly@Jun 17 2003, 05:02 PM
Hang on, who says Ben doesn't know that Leia & Luke are kin.

His line "That's boy is our last hope" might well just reflect the fact that he is just that. Leia has shown little force sense up to that point (if any) and has had NO training.


"The emporer knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. " - obi, roj

even Luke says '...my sister has it'

besides, Yoda corrects Obi in esb by saying 'NO, there is another'.

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by Jedi Killer@Jun 17 2003, 04:29 PM
this is the dumbest topic ever
perhaps you would explain Obi's non-recognition of R2, 3p0 and (if speculation is true) chewbacca?

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Jun 17 2003, 03:10 PM
"The emporer knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. " - obi, roj

even Luke says '...my sister has it'

besides, Yoda corrects Obi in esb by saying 'NO, there is another'.
Excellent point JB

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Darth Badly+Jun 17 2003, 09:02 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darth Badly @ Jun 17 2003, 09:02 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-JediBendu@Jun 14 2002, 05:19 AM
ok so then someone explain how he didn't know about Leia until ESB '

Hang on, who says Ben doesn't know that Leia & Luke are kin.

His line "That's boy is our last hope" might well just reflect the fact that he is just that. Leia has shown little force sense up to that point (if any) and has had NO training.

If vader had killed or seduced Luke then what chance would a hardly trained Leia had against both of them??

None - I'd say and that's why Ben recognises that "that boy is our last hope." [/b][/quote]
Badly, you are entirely correct, Ben didn't think Leia was strong enough in the Force to be trained, this is addressed in the ROTJ screenplay, deleted scenes, and in the novel.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by JediBendu+Jun 17 2003, 02:13 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JediBendu @ Jun 17 2003, 02:13 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jedi Killer@Jun 17 2003, 04:29 PM
this is the dumbest topic ever
perhaps you would explain Obi's non-recognition of R2, 3p0 and (if speculation is true) chewbacca? [/b][/quote]
I think the scene with Ben and Chewie in the Canina denotes that they did know eachother, there was no reason for Ben to come out and say so, quiet the opposite really, they were both criminals, fugitives from the Empire, they had to keep on the low-down.

[JediBendu]

true
although Obi's chatting with another spacer just prior and it's Chewie who really aproaches him
Chewie may recognise Obi and maneuvre over to the 'next in line' seat, but I don't think Obi recognised him.

[Darth Vegas]

To me, it looks more like Obi-Wan asked that other guy to leave.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by jbird669@Jun 17 2003, 07:13 PM
No one knows that Padme is pregnant with Twins, and when Luke is born Obi-Wan immediately takes him away. Then Leia is born, and tehn Bail decides to take her in.

Dude, do you know anything about having babies?

Like:

1/ Twins are real easy to spot because it's most likely that the mother would be about as big as a family car.

2/ How would a force sensitive jedi not spot two lifeforms inside Padme?

3/ Likewise when the first twin is born, things don't just come to a 'it's all over halt'.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by TK-007@Jun 18 2003, 05:16 AM

Badly, you are entirely correct, Ben didn't think Leia was strong enough in the Force to be trained, this is addressed in the ROTJ screenplay, deleted scenes, and in the novel.

Why, thank you Mr Bond.

Also - another point in favour of Leia not really being considered strong enough to battle Vader.

Let's say that ObiWan does only find out about Leia as the camera cuts away from the 'No, there is another' line in ESB (although I DO NOT believe that), neither Yoda, or Obiwan (or Luke when he is told later in ROTJ) go: "Wow - Another Skywalker - great! Quickly, let's train her up fast like we did with Luke and they can defeat Vader together!".

No, sir. Everyone just carries on assuming that Leia will be a rebel leader etc. She had already chosen her path. Luke in ANH is looking for a life path to take and chooses the way of the Jedi.

[Count Dookie]

Originally posted by Blizzard@Jun 14 2002, 12:11 AM
Obi-Wan knew all about Leia. He just has his own point of view to everything. And he didn't remember owning a droid because he was old, old people forget. *:sarcasm:


That is not a very good arguement.

[Count Dookie]

Originally posted by jbird669@Jun 17 2003, 02:13 PM
No one knows that Padme is pregnant with Twins, and when Luke is born Obi-Wan immediately takes him away. Then Leia is born, and tehn Bail decides to take her in.
I don't think Obi takes Luke the very minute he is born. That is crazy. I think it is plausable that the twins stay with Padme to a certain point and then Luke is taken away...My thought is before he is a year old.

But, to say that Luke is taken away immediately before Leia is even born IMO is crazy. Secondly, I don't think Padme would alow that to happen.

[maddog62]

Originally posted by Count Dookie+Jun 18 2003, 12:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Count Dookie @ Jun 18 2003, 12:50 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-jbird669@Jun 17 2003, 02:13 PM
No one knows that Padme is pregnant with Twins, and when Luke is born Obi-Wan immediately takes him away. Then Leia is born, and tehn Bail decides to take her in.
I don't think Obi takes Luke the very minute he is born. That is crazy. I think it is plausable that the twins stay with Padme to a certain point and then Luke is taken away...My thought is before he is a year old.

But, to say that Luke is taken away immediately before Leia is even born IMO is crazy. Secondly, I don't think Padme would alow that to happen. [/b][/quote]
Maybe she has no chioce and she dies befor she can add her 2 cents.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Count Dookie+Jun 18 2003, 06:50 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Count Dookie @ Jun 18 2003, 06:50 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-jbird669@Jun 17 2003, 02:13 PM
No one knows that Padme is pregnant with Twins, and when Luke is born Obi-Wan immediately takes him away. Then Leia is born, and tehn Bail decides to take her in.
I don't think Obi takes Luke the very minute he is born. That is crazy. I think it is plausable that the twins stay with Padme to a certain point and then Luke is taken away...My thought is before he is a year old.

But, to say that Luke is taken away immediately before Leia is even born IMO is crazy. Secondly, I don't think Padme would alow that to happen. [/b][/quote]
Your line of speculation is all being approached that the twins have to be born during the timeframe of the movie. Do we know that for sure? Has GL or some other "official" source stated that the birth of the twins will take place during Episode III?

Since the film is rumored to take place some 3 years after AOTC, couldn't it be plausible that Padme gives birth sometime just prior to the start of the film, while Anakin is off to war? Then (during the film) when events following the Clone Wars sends Anakin over to the dark side, that is what makes Padme decide to go into hiding, along with her infant children.

While the typical SW film covers an unspecified time frame, none have seemed to take place over more than the span of a few days or weeks. If GL sticks to that same basic formula (which I believe he will), it seems more logical for the birth to have occured prior to the film. The real drama is in the turn of Anakin to Vader. It seems too coincidental (IMO) for both his transformation and the birth of his children to take place at exactly the same time.

[Jedi Killer]

Originally posted by TK-007+Jun 17 2003, 11:18 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TK-007 @ Jun 17 2003, 11:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by JediBendu@Jun 17 2003, 02:13 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Jedi Killer@Jun 17 2003, 04:29 PM
this is the dumbest topic ever
perhaps you would explain Obi's non-recognition of R2, 3p0 and (if speculation is true) chewbacca?
I think the scene with Ben and Chewie in the Canina denotes that they did know eachother, there was no reason for Ben to come out and say so, quiet the opposite really, they were both criminals, fugitives from the Empire, they had to keep on the low-down. [/b][/quote]
I love this idea.....but then why does Obi-wan not recognize the ship and also asks if it is fast

[jbird669]

When Luke takes off in the X-Wing in ESB, and Obi-Wan says that Luke is their last hope he says taht cuz Leia has taken the path of politics and has no idea of her true heritage, therefore it'd be too late and the Alliance be wiped out, and Yoda is reminding him that she is there and can be trained.

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by Jedi Killer+Jun 18 2003, 03:37 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jedi Killer @ Jun 18 2003, 03:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by TK-007@Jun 17 2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by JediBendu@Jun 17 2003, 02:13 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Jedi Killer@Jun 17 2003, 04:29 PM
this is the dumbest topic ever
perhaps you would explain Obi's non-recognition of R2, 3p0 and (if speculation is true) chewbacca?
I think the scene with Ben and Chewie in the Canina denotes that they did know eachother, there was no reason for Ben to come out and say so, quiet the opposite really, they were both criminals, fugitives from the Empire, they had to keep on the low-down.
I love this idea.....but then why does Obi-wan not recognize the ship and also asks if it is fast[/b][/quote]
I've only heard bits and pieces of this theory. Something about Chewie rescuing the twins and delivering Luke to Tatooine... something like that? I also seem to remember hearing a rumor that the Falcon is the ship that gets them there. Is that what you're talking about?

Why wouldn't Ben recognize the name of the ship? Is that what you're asking? My reasoning is that usually, when a ship transfers ownership, the name gets changed. Look at it this way. Some people out there name their cars. If a person named a car and then sold that car, and the next owner is also a person who names cars, it's likely that the second owner of the car is not going to use the same name after they buy it. They will rename the car as something that suits them.

So even if the Falcon is the ship that get's Luke and Ben to Tatooine, it probably won't be called the Millennium Falcon because it will not be owned by Han Solo at the time. When Han's talking about the Falcon being a fast ship, he's really talking about his reputation as a smuggler. Just in a way that doesn't make him sound so conceited. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[codeorama]

Originally posted by jbird669@Jun 18 2003, 04:47 PM
When Luke takes off in the X-Wing in ESB, and Obi-Wan says that Luke is their last hope he says taht cuz Leia has taken the path of politics and has no idea of her true heritage, therefore it'd be too late and the Alliance be wiped out, and Yoda is reminding him that she is there and can be trained.
I always took the "last hope" comment to mean Anakin. I may be wrong, but I thought Yoda (not Ben) may have realized that it was possible for Vader to be turned.

[Darth Vegas]

Well, you have to take Yoda's dying words into account, "There is another Skywalker."

And when Obi-Wan told Luke shortly after: "You are our only hope."

Luke: "Yoda spoke of another."

Obi-Wan: "The other he spoke of was your twin sister."

Luke: "But I have no sister."

Obi-Wan: "To protect you both from the Emperor you were hidden frm your father when you were born. For the Emperor knew as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him, that is the reason why your sister remains safely annonymous."

From the those lines we learned that Leia was Luke's sister, and we learned the "other" that Yoda spoke of in ESB and ROTJ.

And the reason why Ben believed Luke was the only hope is because he didn't believe Leia was strong enough in the Force, or that she would be able to go through the training, I find that easy to believe being thats he grew up in royalty, it would be difficult for her to "unlearn".

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Jedi Killer+Jun 18 2003, 01:37 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jedi Killer @ Jun 18 2003, 01:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by TK-007@Jun 17 2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by JediBendu@Jun 17 2003, 02:13 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Jedi Killer@Jun 17 2003, 04:29 PM
this is the dumbest topic ever
perhaps you would explain Obi's non-recognition of R2, 3p0 and (if speculation is true) chewbacca?
I think the scene with Ben and Chewie in the Canina denotes that they did know eachother, there was no reason for Ben to come out and say so, quiet the opposite really, they were both criminals, fugitives from the Empire, they had to keep on the low-down.
I love this idea.....but then why does Obi-wan not recognize the ship and also asks if it is fast [/b][/quote]
The ship belonged to Han, who had won it from Lando, Chewie wasn't involved with Han and the Falcon until long after Episode 3.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by TK-007@Jun 18 2003, 06:47 PM
The ship belonged to Han, who had won it from Lando, Chewie wasn't involved with Han and the Falcon until long after Episode 3.
You beat me to it Bond.

But just to add my 2 cents, Han did win the Falcon from Lando and unless it was while they were playing Chutes and Ladders then there is no way that it happened anywhere near the time of Episode III.

[Darth Vegas]

Chute and Ladders? LOL!

I think we've seen enough SW kids.

[JediBendu]

When Han's talking about the Falcon being a fast ship, he's really talking about his reputation as a smuggler. Just in a way that doesn't make him sound so conceited.

"What a piece of junk!"
"She may not look like much but she's got it where it counts kid...and I've made a few special modifications myself." - luke & han, anh

Lando didn't want to give it up because it was fast, I think Han was boasting about it being fast because he's tinkered with carby and hooked a nitrous feed up to the main fuel line.
GL has alread set it up that the YT-1300 are a common enough freighter, in the same way as R2 units are common enough astro droids. Obi could just recognise them both as more of the same ubiquitous technology.
but I doubt it

Obi doesn't recognise them because he's had his memory altered by Yoda in order to protect the twin's identity and location.

And the reason why Ben believed Luke was the only hope is because he didn't believe Leia was strong enough in the Force, or that she would be able to go through the training, I find that easy to believe being thats he grew up in royalty, it would be difficult for her to "unlearn".

at the risk of repeating myself:

"The Emperor knew as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring they would be a threat to him." - obi, roj

I don't think Leia (for that matter anyone) would be a political threat to the Emperor. Obi is referring to their Force abilities - which Leia first demonstrates in ESB [without any training] - almost the same amount as luke when he pulls the lightsaber from the snow in the same flick.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Jun 18 2003, 11:55 PM
Lando didn't want to give it up because it was fast, I think Han was boasting about it being fast because he's tinkered with carby and hooked a nitrous feed up to the main fuel line.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif Thank the Force he didn't make it look like a friggin' neon flamingo.

[maddog62]

Originally posted by DblDwn+Jun 19 2003, 02:42 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DblDwn @ Jun 19 2003, 02:42 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-TK-007@Jun 18 2003, 06:47 PM
The ship belonged to Han, who had won it from Lando, Chewie wasn't involved with Han and the Falcon until long after Episode 3.
You beat me to it Bond.

But just to add my 2 cents, Han did win the Falcon from Lando and unless it was while they were playing Chutes and Ladders then there is no way that it happened anywhere near the time of Episode III. [/b][/quote]
I think some people think that chewie is part of the Falcon like a car and a spare tire. Part of the SL3 for the military people.

[maddog62]

Originally posted by TK-007+Jun 19 2003, 08:32 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TK-007 @ Jun 19 2003, 08:32 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-JediBendu@Jun 18 2003, 11:55 PM
Lando didn't want to give it up because it was fast, I think Han was boasting about it being fast because he's tinkered with carby and hooked a nitrous feed up to the main fuel line.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif Thank the Force he didn't make it look like a friggin' neon flamingo. [/b][/quote]
He didn't do it all himself he brought it to the Discovery Channel Moster Garage and Jesse James had his team give it hydro's, a super air intake, and a wicked flame job. By the way it also cuts grass.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by maddog62+Jun 19 2003, 05:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maddog62 @ Jun 19 2003, 05:04 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by DblDwn@Jun 19 2003, 02:42 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TK-007@Jun 18 2003, 06:47 PM
The ship belonged to Han, who had won it from Lando, Chewie wasn't involved with Han and the Falcon until long after Episode 3.
You beat me to it Bond.

But just to add my 2 cents, Han did win the Falcon from Lando and unless it was while they were playing Chutes and Ladders then there is no way that it happened anywhere near the time of Episode III.
I think some people think that chewie is part of the Falcon like a car and a spare tire. Part of the SL3 for the military people. [/b][/quote]
I always thought of Chewie as sort of the family dog that became part of another family.

[Count Dookie]

Originally posted by maddog62+Jun 19 2003, 09:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maddog62 @ Jun 19 2003, 09:09 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by TK-007@Jun 19 2003, 08:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-JediBendu@Jun 18 2003, 11:55 PM
Lando didn't want to give it up because it was fast, I think Han was boasting about it being fast because he's tinkered with carby and hooked a nitrous feed up to the main fuel line.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif Thank the Force he didn't make it look like a friggin' neon flamingo.
He didn't do it all himself he brought it to the Discovery Channel Moster Garage and Jesse James had his team give it hydro's, a super air intake, and a wicked flame job. By the way it also cuts grass. [/b][/quote]
Yeah, but can it do 160 and still pick up garbage?

[JediBendu]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif LMAO!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Da Black Mage 12t]

THE KENOBI THING

1. NOT KNOWING LEIA
The main comment made that say Obi-Wan didn't know Leia was born is his comment on Dagobah about Luke being our only hope is easy to dispose if you look at his commet from this point of view...

Your playing 2-2 basketball and the games tied, next point wins. Your team has the ball. Your teamate has just recently been drafted #1 to play pro basketball (ala Lebron James in a about a month). Now personally all you did was warm the bench in high school and not your a little over weight from to many viewings of the OT (Special Edition). Now what do you do if you really want to win. Take the shot yourself or give it to the #1 pick?

This is how Obi was thinking. Luke was a recent graduate of Yoda's Jedi Training. Luke at that moment was a rookie Jedi ready to truely dawn his robes once he finally confronted Vader. Whereas Leia was out of shape by "force-using" standards and had no clue she even had force abilities. Let alone ready to confront Vader.

So if I was Obi-Wan I would say that Luke was their only hope since Obi knew like we didn't know that Yoda was on his last leg and was soon going to die. Meaning if Luke failed/died Leia would never even know to make it to Dagobah to train before Yoda died.

2. NOT KNOWING THE DROIDS
This one is easy. Obi-Wan never once owned the droids so when he made his statement he was correct. Also, TOS posted that both C-3PO and R2-D2 get there memories wiped. Or else when everyone was on Endor with the Ewoks, that story would be a whole lot longer.


THE CHEWBACCA THING

Don't forget that Chewie is over 500 years old himself, and that by his own people he is considered a "rebel" leader by his own people's standards. So for him to be one of the ones to fight out against the new forming Empire would be right to que. I just wouldn't expect him to play as huge a role as shipping Luke around, but do expect to see him in a firefight or as a leader in a secret meeting.

It's Lucas folks he always gives us a little less than we want, but more than we expect as a whole.

[Ewok Hater]

The only problem I have with Obi Wan not knowing about Leia was a line spoken by Vader in ROTJ...

"A...sister! So. You have a twin sister! OBI WAN WAS WISE TO HIDE HER FROM ME. Now his failure is complete."

Now if Obi Wan knew nothing about Leia, that line wouldn't make much sense. Vader would have simply said, "Yoda was wise", "Bail was wise" "Padme was wise" or even "Jar Jar was wise". He could have also simply said a generic "they were wise".

[Obitwokenobi]

Didn't Obi-wan have a droid in AotC? On his starship? He just has a bad memory!

[maddog62]

Originally posted by Ewok Hater@Jun 21 2003, 12:39 AM
The only problem I have with Obi Wan not knowing about Leia was a line spoken by Vader in ROTJ...

"A...sister! So. You have a twin sister! OBI WAN WAS WISE TO HIDE HER FROM ME. Now his failure is complete."

Now if Obi Wan knew nothing about Leia, that line wouldn't make much sense. Vader would have simply said, "Yoda was wise", "Bail was wise" "Padme was wise" or even "Jar Jar was wise". He could have also simply said a generic "they were wise".
I think Vader is just assuming that OW hid her and I think he believes Yoda is dead. Luke never reveals anything about Yoda to vader or palpy. They don't even mention Yoda.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Da Black Mage 12t@Jun 20 2003, 03:01 PM
Your playing 2-2 basketball and the games tied, next point wins. Your team has the ball. Your teamate has just recently been drafted #1 to play pro basketball (ala Lebron James in a about a month). Now personally all you did was warm the bench in high school and not your a little over weight from to many viewings of the OT (Special Edition). Now what do you do if you really want to win. Take the shot yourself or give it to the #1 pick?

Don't forget that Chewie is over 500 years old himself,
The draft is next Thursday and I take the shot myself because, although I'll never play in the NBA, I am still an above average basketball player who lives for pressure situations.

Chewie is 200 years old.

[aries]

I agree with maddog... Anakin assumes that Yoda is dead, and that every Jedi is, except for Obi Wan, which he sees on ANH.

[Jedi Killer]

exactly. it seems the only guys in the OT that know of Yoda are Obi-wan and luke. you can tell in ANH that Vader feels that he has finally killed every last jedi when he strikes down Obi-Wan. He raves about how he killed him and that its a great day for the empire and such

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by Da Black Mage 12t@Jun 20 2003, 10:01 PM
Now what do you do if you really want to win. Take the shot yourself or give it to the #1 pick?

you still would take yourself out of the game

This is how Obi was thinking. Luke was a recent graduate of Yoda's Jedi Training. Luke at that moment was a rookie Jedi ready to truely dawn his robes once he finally confronted Vader. Whereas Leia was out of shape by "force-using" standards and had no clue she even had force abilities. Let alone ready to confront Vader.

Both Leia and Luke show comparable Force abilities in ESB, luke at the start, leia at the end. Leia on the other hand is already proving herself more than worthy in taking on the Emperor and Vader - she's leading the rebellion for godsakes!

So if I was Obi-Wan I would say that Luke was their only hope since Obi knew like we didn't know that Yoda was on his last leg and was soon going to die. Meaning if Luke failed/died Leia would never even know to make it to Dagobah to train before Yoda died.

both Yoda and Obi can retain their identity after death - they both could have made the effort after they died. Actually, Luke's received training (of sorts) after Obi died.

2. NOT KNOWING THE DROIDS
This one is easy. Obi-Wan never once owned the droids so when he made his statement he was correct. Also, TOS posted that both C-3PO and R2-D2 get there memories wiped. Or else when everyone was on Endor with the Ewoks, that story would be a whole lot longer.

sorry, I just can't accept that R2 is not recognised by Obi after saving so many people's butt in the first 3 films - granted R2 unit's are ubiquitous in the SW universe, but one that just happens to be searching Tatooine for someone that just happens to called Obi-Wan? nah
I'm betting that Yoda suppresses the name Obi-Wan with the memory repression - the name itself could be a trigger that releases some sort of memory recall. Watch Obi's reaction when he here's the name Obi-Wan - he goes way deep into thought, as though a thousand different memories come rushing back all at once.

THE CHEWBACCA THING

Don't forget that Chewie is over 500 years old himself, and that by his own people he is considered a "rebel" leader by his own people's standards. So for him to be one of the ones to fight out against the new forming Empire would be right to que. I just wouldn't expect him to play as huge a role as shipping Luke around, but do expect to see him in a firefight or as a leader in a secret meeting.

agreed, although Chewie is only 200 years old style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

It's Lucas folks he always gives us a little less than we want, but more than we expect as a whole.
too true too true

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by Jedi Killer@Jun 21 2003, 05:47 PM
exactly. it seems the only guys in the OT that know of Yoda are Obi-wan and luke. you can tell in ANH that Vader feels that he has finally killed every last jedi when he strikes down Obi-Wan. He raves about how he killed him and that its a great day for the empire and such
agreed
he believes that Obi-Wan is the only one who's ever trainied Luke

[maddog62]

Originally posted by DblDwn+Jun 21 2003, 06:08 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DblDwn @ Jun 21 2003, 06:08 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Da Black Mage 12t@Jun 20 2003, 03:01 PM
Your playing 2-2 basketball and the games tied, next point wins. Your team has the ball. Your teamate has just recently been drafted #1 to play pro basketball (ala Lebron James in a about a month). Now personally all you did was warm the bench in high school and not your a little over weight from to many viewings of the OT (Special Edition). Now what do you do if you really want to win. Take the shot yourself or give it to the #1 pick?

Don't forget that Chewie is over 500 years old himself,
The draft is next Thursday and I take the shot myself because, although I'll never play in the NBA, I am still an above average basketball player who lives for pressure situations.

Chewie is 200 years old. [/b][/quote]
Although Michael Jordan was by far the greatest basketball player in history he would have never made it anywhere without great clutch shooters like BJ Armstrong, Craig Hodges, and John Paxton. So really it depends whos hot and who is rested.

[brewed]

I think y'all forget that Lucas didn't know Leia was Luke's brother until he was writing the scene for Vader and Luke's fight in ROTJ. He wanted something that would tip Luke's glass so that his anger spilled over. All the rest is just consistency errors due to that. Nothing more.

As for Obi's wipe, that just isn't possible. Even Yoda wouldn't manipulate the Force to alter someone's mind, even for good. That is the path to the dark side...

Maybe it's just been twenty-something years since Obi-Wan saw R2, and I'm sure his memory will be failing because he's old. Maybe that line will show that Obi-Wan is getting alzheimer's or just plain old and forgetful. It would be a nice tie-in with Vader's "Your powers are weak, old man..."

Anyone know anything about Lucas' rumoured plan to enhance the original trilogy with extra scenes, etc., to tie it in better and make it consistent? It would make us speculators' life easier...

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by brewed@Jun 28 2003, 10:47 PM
I think y'all forget that Lucas didn't know Leia was Luke's brother until he was writing the scene for Vader and Luke's fight in ROTJ. He wanted something that would tip Luke's glass so that his anger spilled over. All the rest is just consistency errors due to that. Nothing more.

sorry - you obviously missed the line

'No, there is another.' - yoda, esb

GL wrote esb with roj in mind, the most obvious point being Han's capture, but Yoda saying that there is another hope for the Jedi and Leia showing Force abilities at the end indicate that GL had Leia down as Luke's sister whilst writing esb.

As for Obi's wipe, that just isn't possible. Even Yoda wouldn't manipulate the Force to alter someone's mind, even for good. That is the path to the dark side...

'Let me see your identification'
'You don't need to see his identification.
'We don't need to see his identification.
'These are not the droids your looking for.
'These are not the droids we're looking for.'
'He can go about his business.'
'You can go about your business.'
'Move along.'
'Move along. Move along.'

How is that not affecting someone's memory? Qui-Gon does to anyone he needs something for, Obi-Wan ruins someone's lucrative and highly profitable trade in death sticks. I'm betting Yoda decides that it's necessary in order to protect the future of the Jedi Order, allowing for a backup in case the first doesn't work.
The issue of mind tricks only working on the weak minded is circumvented if Obi is a willing participant - which he would be if both Yoda and Obi realise that they're some of the few remaining Jedi left.

Maybe it's just been twenty-something years since Obi-Wan saw R2, and I'm sure his memory will be failing because he's old. Maybe that line will show that Obi-Wan is getting alzheimer's or just plain old and forgetful. It would be a nice tie-in with Vader's "Your powers are weak, old man..."

Senility I'll accept as possible reason, but I don't think GL would allow one of the greatest Jedi ever to fall victim to failing mind.