Star Wars Saga

[FerrisWiel]

Note: This is very critical of ROTJ, TPM and AOTC. If you are easily offended by a poorly worded, half-coherent drunkard's opposition to these films, please save yourself the trouble and don't read it. Remember kids, Boozing and Boarding don't mix.

Historically, I am a fan of Star Wars. I thrilled to A New Hope and cheered as Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antilles destroyed AT-ATs in Empire Strikes Back.

I pored over the novels, collected the comic books, played with the action figures.

I lined up for the opening day of the Special Editions and even had my photo in the local paper with my classic Chewbacca and Darth Vader figures.

I've read the scripts over at Starkiller and I can wow my friends with knowledge of Imperial and Rebellion minutae.

But something changed. As I got older I saw more movies that weren't Star Wars and by the time Episode 1 came around my expectations were for a slightly mature, highly entertaining, galactic extravaganza. I mean, George Lucas had a budget limited only by his imagination for casting, effects, writers, directors.

I was disappointed.

It wasn't the last time.

The problem that comes with franchise (sci-fi and other) films is that the fans become so rabid, apathetic or so hungry for a new film that they don't expect quality anymore.

Star Wars (later re-named A New Hope) is a good film. It works as either a standalone or as part of a series, the writing was passable, the story had several intriguing moments, the villains remained obscured and threatening. While the acting certainly wasn't first-rate, it wasn't bottom of the barrel. A surprise antihero generated as much interest as the main hero. It stunned audiences with its special effects and scope. It was a decent and relatively original picture (Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress aside).

The Empire Strikes Back is a very good film technically and very entertaining in spite of its black sheep status. Well acted, well written, well directed. It did exactly what it was supposed to do - leave the audience in suspense for Episode 6.

Return of the Jedi was the beginning of the end. Mass marketing, poor script and directing (mostly due to Lucas' stranglehold after butting heads with "The Kirsch"), half-hearted acting, cliched plot beleaguered what should have been a brilliant final act.

The Phantom Menace took and perfected what Jedi started. Talking down to children rather than simply talking to a general audience. It had an identity crisis from start to finish. Directing, writing, editing - the film couldn't decide what it wanted to be. Sad for one with such potential.

Attack of the Clones was a Dawson's Creek meets Buffy meets Star Wars meets with even a touch of Pretty in Pink and Sixteen Candles. It was no compelling love story as a proper audience shouldn't care about the two romantic leads. It wasn't a mystery thriller because the mystery was about things uninteresting and largely unrelated to "earlier" Star Wars lore. It had a battle made of quick cuts with no real suspense using "actors" that looked like they were friends and family of the crew (or perhaps pop stars - N*SYNC, I am looking in your direction). The final battle was more cliched than anything and the line that introduced it was pathetic. Bad.

Compared with the original two the films fall flat and even compared to classic war films like The Dirty Dozen and modern war films like Saving Private Ryan, classic mystery thrillers like The Maltese Falcon and modern mystery thrillers like Memento, ROTJ, TPM and AOTC are lifeless and shallow.

It's unfortunate that no matter how much money these pictures make, I will always classify Return of the Jedi, The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones as failures. Moreso considering the fan I am of ANH and ESB.

[Darth Badly]

Hello matey and welcome aboard:

Please please go check out page one of the thread ATTACK OF THE CLOWNS in the prequels spoiler section.

I think you'll find it an interesting discussion. (And one where I've come under great fire for having views very similar to your own.

I love you all.

[FerrisWiel]

I have an ally?!?!?!? This simply cannot be!!!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

On a serious note, the practical majority of these forums is just one big GL fanboy circle-jerk.

They sport wood seeing Yoda run around with a lightsabre and love when Star Wars babes expose skin, they're immune to logical criticism of the new trilogy and have zero appreciation for actual cinema.

I just finished reading A Year At The Movies by Kevin Murphy - you know, Tom Servo from MST3k - who, even after publicly viewing the number of stinkers he was exposed to, said The Phantom Menace was the loudest, dumbest film of its or any decade. A man who sat through Aztec Mummy, Pod People, and Manos: The Hands of Fate said TPM was the loudest, dumbest movie ever!

Can I get a witness? Anybody? Do you see the huge problem here?!?

--Ferris Wiel
"Meet Ranma Saotome, of the Anything Goes school of martial arts."

[Yodas_toothpick]

Woah there. Granted TPM was, at the best of times a little, er, bad. But it surely can't be " the loudest dumbest film of its or any decade." What about, The Concierge ( spelt wrong i think ) with Michael J Fox? Certainly Dumber maybe not louder, and what about star trek the motion picture?

Attack of the Clones though i thought to be brilliant, and while i know you are entitled to your opinion i feel that you are possibly being a bit harsh. You say that the final battle was cliched, yeah it was i will go along with that, but cliches do not make something unentertaining.

And please prove me wrong on the next one. I also feel that fans of the OT ( which i am, although not first time round ) are a tad elitist. They feel that the newer films are an insult to there precious babies. That they do not deliever the same amount of magic the OT did. I for one disagree with this and i like AOTC equally as much as i like the OT films ( TPM is weaker though ). The PT is supposed to just finish the holes and to make the OT better by knowing how the galaxy got into this state, to see the old jedis in their prime, and really just to be visual eye candy. If you look at star wars as just a simple sci-fi film and not the new Hamlet, it is so much easier to enjoy.

And i am not a GL fanboy.......and yoda isn't my 'cup of tea' if yo know what i mean and i am sure that you do.

[Jedi D'oh]

I am a fan of all things SW. While I agree that TPM was not the best of all of them AOTC was at least a better attempt at making the movies a little better.

ANH and ESB are the best. Hands down, no question. ROTJ was a little weak. TPM was waaayyy weak. AOTC give ME hope that III will be better.

I was around for the OT on the first run. I saw ANH in 1977 at 4, only months after it came out.

I, personally, am not immune to the critisism, but I think some people just bash the hell out of it either to get folks riled up or because they are older now and don't appreciate the magic.

At this stage, nothing GL does is ever going to be good enough because of people being too analitical. Stop analyzing and just enjoy the fact that we get to see jedi whoopin' ass.

I'm not telling you, Ferris, that your opinions are not valid or noted. Just that I think you're reading way too deep into these things.

And your way of thinking could be right. In my eyes, GL has one more chance to make the new trilogy stand on end. He may screw it up and he may not. I'm not some fanboy that will cream his pants just because it's SW, but I still want it to be good. If not, I will be very disappointed.

Perhaps you are just pessimistic about this trilogy, I am optomistic. I hope we can both be satisfied in the end.

Peace.

[FerrisWiel]

The only reason why I read so deeply into it is that Lucas has all these grand delusions about the importance of his films.

He wants to write "morality tales" but doesn't want to spend time on actual storytelliing. His hollow references to Campbell and great myth are just shadows and not the real meat of EpVI, EpI, and EpII.

I have "From Star Wars to Jedi" and it has Lucas spouting off things in an interview that he obviously doesn't believe - and this was back in 1984!!! I say obviously doesn't believe because he regularly ignores the tenets he lays out in the documentary, chief among these are "show don't tell" and "effects are just a tool to tell a story."

A man who makes the effort Lucas has to document his filmmaking philosophies deserves to be burned up under the magnifying glass he put himself under.

--Ferris Wiel
"Damn, we're in a tight spot!"
-Ulysses Everett McGill

[FerrisWiel]

I am inclined to agree with Kevin Murphy about the film. Perhaps, though, he meant it as a combination of the two, not the two separately.

--Ferris Wiel
"Work, booze, work."
-Hired!, part II

[Darth Stix]

For me, the biggest difference between the OT and the PT is, I grew up.

And so did the Star Wars Universe thru the novels that have been published over the years.

Star Wars became a more mature, entertaining universe unto itself.

Lucas, is still living back in 1977 making movies for 10 year olds.

What he didn't realize was the original fan base is now in their 30's or 40's, not their teens.

Thats were he totally dropped the ball. The good acting by McGreggor and Lee were wasted by the Hayden's horrible performance.

Stixx

[MegoHulk]

I must admit, I don't get the same thrill watching Ep1, 2, 6, as I do from 4,5. I'll hold out hope till I see Ep3, if that leaves me feeling hollow then yeah, the PT was a waste of time. TPM is not the worst movie ever...Starship Troopers is. I'm sure there are a dozen directors that could give SW a better treatment, but would it still be SW then? GL IS SW, like it or not....maybe he can redeem himself with Ep3. Keep your fingers crossed.

[Jedi D'oh]

I am Megohulk. And I agree with you ,IV and V are the ones I feel most attached to, but I still like them all.

[Justin]

On a serious note, the practical majority of these forums is just one big GL fanboy circle-jerk.

They sport wood seeing Yoda run around with a lightsabre and love when Star Wars babes expose skin, they're immune to logical criticism of the new trilogy and have zero appreciation for actual cinema.

You know, for someone who goes around saying how enlightened, intelligent, and sophisticated you supposedly are, that was an awfully immature thing to say.

You're entitled to your opinion on the quality of the Star Wars films, but you have no right to go insulting people simply because they don't agree with you.

[Blizzard]

Originally posted by FerrisWiel@Oct 30 2002, 04:13 PM
On a serious note, the practical majority of these forums is just one big GL fanboy circle-jerk.
You must be mistaken. This is not TF.N. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

[FerrisWiel]

Maybe they're just more vociferous, then.

--Ferris Wiel
"Screaming about it won't help."
-C-3P0