Does AOTC Teach Us A Message?

[James]

I was looking at my copy of the AOTC Visual Dictionary last night, and my dad said that it never does to appease aggressors. (In case you didn't know, 'appease' means to sacrifice to avoid a conflict style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif ) This is what the Brits and the French did to Hitler to stop him starting a war. He wanted more and more, and in the end, a huge war resulted, killing over 60 million people...

Isn't this the case with Dooku and the Separatists? Their negotiations caused a huge conflict, killing hundreds of Jedi. This allowed for the rise of the sith, and many were killed during the Clone Wars.

So I think my dad is right, what about you??? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[MegoHulk]

Your dad is Hitler? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[James]

Um, no... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

[Jedi Master Shaft]

Well I do not agree with you and your father.

First, what you said about the Brits and the French appeasing Hitler before the World War II is wrong. As far as I know ( and I've been studying this War at school for years ), there were no negotacions between Hitler and the other European governments. The German invaded a few East-Europe countries, and the War started with no negociations inbetween.

Two, as far as I know ( and I've been talking about Clones for years style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif ), there are no negociations existing between the Galactic Republic and Count Dooku's Confederacy of Independent Systems. On his side, the Count rally more and more planets to his Confederacy while the Republic is helplessly slitted in two. Just like the World War II, the War erupted with no negociations.

History told us that no negociations eventually lead to War. Of course, negociations do not always calm the opinion and stop the possibility of creating a War but for sure, it reduce the possibility of starting a War. There should always be negociations. That's the European point of view.

You don't know the Power of Psychology !

Whoah, it was strange to be so serious here,... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif


style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tie.gif

[Blizzard]

*Blizzardbops Mego on the head.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Darth James@Oct 27 2002, 06:15 AM
I was looking at my copy of the AOTC Visual Dictionary last night, and my dad said that it never does to appease aggressors. (In case you didn't know, 'appease' means to sacrifice to avoid a conflict style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif ) This is what the Brits and the French did to Hitler to stop him starting a war. He wanted more and more, and in the end, a huge war resulted, killing over 60 million people...

Isn't this the case with Dooku and the Separatists? Their negotiations caused a huge conflict, killing hundreds of Jedi. This allowed for the rise of the sith, and many were killed during the Clone Wars.

So I think my dad is right, what about you??? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

World War II is almost a text book example of people standing up to an agressor and stoppng him before he took over the whole world.

The Brits did not appease Hitler! A tiny minority (and a mean tiny) wanted to, but the vast majority realised that he had to be stopped. Britain declared war on Germany after they invaded Poland, thereby standing up to Mr Hitler and his Nazi loons even though he wasn't actually threatening to invade England and wanted to sign a peace agreement with us. ie we could easily have appeased him and sold out Poland, but we didn't.

I would suggest that perhaps you might buy your dad a history book for Christmas. Then he can read about how the Brits were fighting Hitler while waiting for the Americans to get off their collective backside and join the war.


I love you all.

[Darth Badly]

PS If Attack of the Clowns teaches any message it's this: You can't go home again.

ie the magic of Star Wars was a fantastic and powerful part of my childhood, BUT you can't revisit that with these new pieces of nonsense that Uncle George is thrusting upon us like unwelcome chickens.

[RollaFett]

Nice job how you managed to sneak in an AOTC slam, Badly. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[Darth Drew]

<font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=blue)'>The only lesson I learned is don't marry anbody with an attitude problem, they might be a sith.</font>

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by GollaFett@Oct 28 2002, 01:19 AM
Nice job how you managed to sneak in an AOTC slam, Badly. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

Thanks, Mr Fett.

You gotta take dem chances as dey comes up.

[James]

First, what you said about the Brits and the French appeasing Hitler before the World War II is wrong. As far as I know ( and I've been studying this War at school for years ), there were no negotacions between Hitler and the other European governments. The German invaded a few East-Europe countries, and the War started with no negociations inbetween.

Well, I've been studying World war 2 at school as well. The British and the french did appease Hitler: what was the Munich Conference all about? Ceding parts of Czecslovkia to avoid war, in the end, Hitler grabbed the rest of the country and invaded Poland. What about in 1938, when the Germans went to Austria? THe Brits and the French did nothing.

Two, as far as I know ( and I've been talking about Clones for years ), there are no negociations existing between the Galactic Republic and Count Dooku's Confederacy of Independent Systems. On his side, the Count rally more and more planets to his Confederacy while the Republic is helplessly slitted in two. Just like the World War II, the War erupted with no negociations.

Yes, there were negotiations, both in AOTC and the years preceding World War 2. When Palpy meets with the Jedi, he says:

"I will not let this Republic, which has stood for a thousand years, be split in two. My negotiations will not fail."

History told us that no negociations eventually lead to War. Of course, negociations do not always calm the opinion and stop the possibility of creating a War but for sure, it reduce the possibility of starting a War. There should always be negociations. That's the European point of view.

There were negotations, it's just that appeasement was a terrible negotating policy.

[James]

Oh, and Darth Badly, I think you need a history book for Christmas. The British definitely did appease Hitler

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Darth James@Oct 28 2002, 03:31 AM
Oh, and Darth Badly, I think you need a history book for Christmas. The British definitely did appease Hitler
The situation with the German annexation of Austria in the spring of 1938 was rather different given the close ties between the countries.

The 1938 Munich agreement was about appeasing Adolf, but met with huge public disquiet. So much so that the Prime Minister had to resign a short time later. The majority of Brits weren't in favour of that policy at all. The annexation of Czechoslovakia made things more unstable and the invasion of Poland led to war.

While all this was happening America, of course, bravely sat on its hands doing absolutely nothing as Britain, America's closest friend, was attacked, bombed and blasted by Adolf.

Finally having been attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor, the US entered the war late in 1941. (Compare that with our response to 9-11).

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by MegoHulk@Oct 27 2002, 01:20 AM
Your dad is Hitler? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
MegoHulk... you have the best avatar. Hands down.
And yes, that guy's dad is Hitler.

On a more serious note, I'd like to take a moment to vouch for Darth James' historical facts. Thank you James, for taking the time to educate someone from France. :look: No offense to the member who stated that appeasement was not a tactic used by Europeans, but your facts are just flat out incorrect.

Europeans have a history of trying to avoid difficult conflicts, while snidely deriding Americans as 'cowboys' who confront danger directly. I'll shut up now, before I offend anyone with my patriotism. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[James]

DON'T CALL MY DAD HITLER!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif

btw, Thankyou Krogenar for helping me in my argument with Badly and the rest of them...

The Brits and the French did actually have the big chance to stop Hitler in 1936 when he went into the Rhineland with the most pitiful army in Europe, and the French had the largest about of a bout 1million or so men!!!

Not trying to put down France or anything, but letting aggressors have their own way was a bad idea.......

As in Churchill's words (I think he's one of the wordl's greatest men), after Chamberlain returned from Munich

"We have sustained a defeat without war."

[James]

Originally posted by Darth Badly@Oct 29 2002, 12:41 AM
The 1938 Munich agreement was about appeasing Adolf, but met with huge public disquiet. So much so that the Prime Minister had to resign a short time later. The majority of Brits weren't in favour of that policy at all. The annexation of Czechoslovakia made things more unstable and the invasion of Poland led to war.

While all this was happening America, of course, bravely sat on its hands doing absolutely nothing as Britain, America's closest friend, was attacked, bombed and blasted by Adolf.
There may have been public disquiet about the appeasement policy, so why didn't the British leaders do what was in the best interests of the people? :0

But Badly, I do honestly agree with your thinking that America should have come in earlier. 2-3 yrs of fighting could have possibly been stopped. Their policy of isolation after the Treaty at Versailles was not good, because it was kind of, their duty, after having fought in World War I, to help the place they'd been fighitng in recover

[Krogenar]

In recent news, the Republicans (led by George Dubya) have taken control of Congress, and proven that the current U.S. President has America behind him.

Soon, we'll be kicking Saddam Hussein's ass and crushing his regime. Taxes will be cut, the economy will slowly improve, and liberalism will die as a political ideology. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

[James]

Um, uh-huh style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[MegoHulk]

Soon, we'll be kicking Saddam Hussein's ass and crushing his regime. Taxes will be cut, the economy will slowly improve, and liberalism will die as a political ideology.


Hmm...coincidence that Bush and Hitler were named in the same thread? By the way...what is your definition of liberalism anyway?

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by MegoHulk@Nov 8 2002, 03:42 AM
Hmm...coincidence that Bush and Hitler were named in the same thread? By the way...what is your definition of liberalism anyway?
I think of liberalism as the mistaken belief that the government is the tool that can make people's lives better. I don't support that view of a paternalistic government. I'm more of a libertarian. Historically, governments have been the enemy of human freedom and prosperity - not its defenders. Only individual humans can make the world a better place. Government has its role in the general defense, and highway-building - but not much else.

The government shouldn't have so much control over individual citizens. I think drugs like marijuana and others should be legalized, but the government should no longer be responsible for people who cook their brains using those drugs. I'm against giving people tickets for not wearing safety belt while driving. People should be able to buy cigarettes without taking out a loan (I don't smoke, by the way). And though I don't carry a gun myself, other Americans should be allowed to bear guns if they wish.

Repeal the estate tax, lower taxes in general - for everyone, especially the wealthy. Abolish the Department of Education, and allow for the public funding of charter schools through government-issued educational vouchers. Let the free market come to bear on education.

Finally, every American has the right to one 'property tax free' home. 'Power to the people'? Give them their money back. That would be a start.

'Liberals' as I see them, are people who genuinely want to make the world a better place - but they are horribly, horribly misguided in believing that the government is the place to start.

Just look at what happened to the Galactic Republic! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[MegoHulk]

Well I consider myself a liberal person in my personal beliefs not so much what I think the government should be. Any government, conservative or liberal, shouldn't play a huge role in our lives. America is so behind the rest of the world in healthcare and education....but hey, we can kick everyones butt though right? So now the republicans have the congress....let's see what they can do. Bush has 2 years to show America what he can do...he has no excuses now. But I'd bet, instead of fixing problems with OUR country, we'll be off fighting wars all over the world instead. I don't like BUsh but hey, I'll give him a chance....impress me Dubya. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Krogenar]

(stops laughing at MegoHulk's avatar)

First off, if we EVER have another avatar contest, I'm voting for yours. DAMN! I wish I had thought of that avatar. I just look at it and laugh. :roll:

Anyway, back to politics.
I don't think liberals are evil people, sitting in dark meeting rooms, plotting how to destroy America. I just think their policies are wrong-headed.

Well I consider myself a liberal person in my personal beliefs not so much what I think the government should be. Any government, conservative or liberal, shouldn't play a huge role in our lives.

Agreed.

America is so behind the rest of the world in healthcare and education....but hey, we can kick everyones butt though right?

Ah! A two part question!
America isn't behind the rest of the world in health care or education. Most other countries have the benefit of a homogenous society. America is filled to overflowing with immigrants, who have special educational needs (like learning English).

Medically, America is on the forefront of medical technology. That's not to say that there are no medical advances outside the country - before anyone gets their panties in a twist. If I need a special procedure, more often than not, I don't have to go outside the country for it. I can only assume you mean that health care isn't cheap enough for your liking.

In that case, you should realize that it was the government's involvement (price fixing) that caused medical costs to skyrocket, and the increasing cost of medical malpractice insurance - which is a result of outrageous claims from lawyers - most of whom donate heavily to Liberal Democrats. The health care system's customers would be better served under a free market system, without the government getting involved.

Education also needs a massive overhaul. A systemic overhaul, as I stated with vouchers. If you listen to liberals (like the United Federation of Teachers) the only solution they have is 'more money' and 'more resources'. We're subsidizing failure!

And yes. We can kick anyone's butt.

So now the republicans have the congress....let's see what they can do. Bush has 2 years to show America what he can do...he has no excuses now. But I'd bet, instead of fixing problems with OUR country, we'll be off fighting wars all over the world instead. I don't like BUsh but hey, I'll give him a chance....impress me Dubya.

Destroying Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq will do a lot of good for America's security. Bush could handle things as Boy Clinton did during his 8 years of squandered opportunities. Instead of attacking the terrorists, he blew up an aspirin factory. *claps*

Also, Bush wanted the ability to hire and fire security agents as he saw fit. But the democrats (at the behest of the labor unions) would not allow it unless Bush followed union guidelines - which would protect even the most boldy inept employees. These security guards are our first line of defense when it comes to keeping terrorists out of the country - if they want more job security, they should join the Teamsters. National security is more important than letting security guards takes a half hour break for each hour spent working.

The democrats were trounced in this week's election because they're out of step with reality. Politics is more important to them than security: at least in the eyes of most voters. I pray that the Republicans don't allow some sort of brokered 'power-sharing' as they did the last time they won the Congress.

[Siamese Sith]

Ummm star wars folks...
Anywho AOTC taught me an invalueable lesson! Old folks should NEVER EVER ride anti grav Harley's!

[James]

Then why do they go and finish saddam off??!! The longer the Americans don't do anything, the more time Saddam can buy with getting his armed forces better

[Siamese Sith]

unngh I hate talking about politics but...
Politics(today)=busines=politics.
Ever hear of builderberg....go check it out, I think it's a bit hokey but hey ya never know...

[bodhisattva yoda]

if clones taught me anything, it taught me that bush is a sith lord.

[Siamese Sith]

It also taught me this. If I ever move to the outback with my mother, and go away to some academy for 10 years, then come home to find her missing...... to hop on my anti grav speeder bike thingie, grab my handy dandy super sharp sabre, find those damn Aboriginees and KILL KILL KILL and not the men....but the women and the childred too!