Star Wars Film Parallels

[Sluggo]

I want to start a place where various re-occuring themes in all six movies, including plot parallels, visual parallels, leitmotifs, structure and other similiarities between the movies can be discussed. And maybe contrast them as well.


Maybe a few sample topics to get things started:

What if Anakin would have burned Shmi's body instead of burying her?

Is the battle of Hoth more powerful to watch than the battle of Geonosis?

Is the Phantom Menace closer in structure to Return of the Jedi or A New Hope?


Anyway, if you have ideas or observations about the films, post 'em here.

[Sam Kenobi]

Hmmm . . . That would have been interesting if Shmi was burned, rather than burried. I'll state the obvious movie title ones

A New Hope and The Phantom Menace. Both three words. An article, an adjectve, and a noun.

The Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones. Both four words, but the structure is different, even though it's the same mixture of speech. ESB is an article, a noun, a verb, and a preposition (I think). AotC is a verb, a preposition, an article, and a noun.

Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith. Pretty obvioius. Four words. They are a verb, a preposition, an article, and a proper noun.

[Momin327]

ANH and TPM: Both begin with a shootout at a door.

[darthimmus]

A couple obvious ones: TMP and ANH feature a young Skywalker and R2D2 flying a starfighter towards a large spherical space ship.
Also, a Sith slays a wise Jedi knight much to the horror of his young aprentice.

[Momin327]

ROTJ & AOTC: A heroine, chained to a structure, uses her chain as a weapon.

[Sargoth]

Originally posted by darthimmus@Oct 26 2004, 03:33 PM
Also, a Sith slays a wise Jedi knight much to the horror of his young aprentice.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Done to the scream of "Nooooooooooooo"!!!!!

[Sargoth]

ESB/AOTC

- The only "space" action involved a chase through an asteroid field.

- Final scene showed a Skywalker revealing his new mechanical hand

- Final scene showed Hero/Heroine and the droids turning their backs to the camera to look outwards.

- A skywalker interrupts his training/mission and places himself in peril of being tempted by the dark side because of visions of a loved one suffering.

- A sith apprentice tempts a jedi to join him under the pretense of destroying the Sith Master.

- Both had the "first kiss" between the love interests of the respective trilogies.

- The only films to show Slave I and to use a Fett as an integral part of the story

[Momin327]

Adding to what I said earlier between ROTJ & AOTC:

The heroine, bearing her navel, uses her chain as a weapon.

[brookie]

AOTC and ESB- c3po is annoying... hee heee style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif



but seriously folks, this is an awsome thread! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Momin327]

TPM and ESB: The Sith apprentice communicates with his master via intercom.

[Sam Kenobi]

TPM, AOTC, ROTS, ANH, TESB, & ROTJ all have the name Star Wars in them . . . style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[darthimmus]

ESB/AOTC
Massive ground battle on barren terrain

3PO ends up in pieces and complains during reassembly

A ship avoids detection by powering down and attaching itself to the hidden side of an object.

Boba Fett has very little dialog.

[Sargoth]

Originally posted by darthimmus@Oct 27 2004, 03:33 PM
ESB/AOTC
A ship avoids detection by powering down and attaching itself to the hidden side of an object.

<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Ahh, good catch!!

You can also compare the endings of the respective movies:

TPM/ANH ended with a formal celebration with the final scene focusing on the main characters receiving their praises from a cheering crowd.

AOTC/ESB - I've mentioned those paralells above.

ROTJ/ROTS - Hmm, could it possibly end with a montage of planets falling under the oppression of the Empire? That could be an element of it. But these two films will be sooo entirely different that it'll be difficult to paralell the endings as closely as the other four. My bet is the final scene will show Obi-wan on Tatooine.

[darthimmus]

TMP/ANH
Young Skywalker leaves home with a wise Jedi knight who tells him of the force

For the first time in ages, Sith and Jedi duel

A female Royal needs rescue

After their ship is damaged, the heros must turn to Tatooine for help

CGI Jabba

[Momin327]

AOTC/ANH:

Luke and Anakin face Sand People

A Skywalker gets up from the Lars dinner table, and is asked "Where are you going?"

[Sargoth]

Originally posted by Momin327@Oct 28 2004, 06:46 PM
AOTC/ANH:

Luke and Anakin face Sand People

A Skywalker gets up from the Lars dinner table, and is asked "Where are you going?"
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


... and proceeds to exit the homestead just as the sun sets (with "The Force" theme playing in the background). One thing I thought was kind of strange was that the "where are you going?" line was spoken by Beru in ANH, and Owen in AOTC. You would think that if they were trying to force the parallel, they would have the same character speak the line. Could this line have been a coincidence?

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Sargoth@Oct 28 2004, 08:12 PM
Could this line have been a coincidence?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


A coincidence? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif

[Kapit]

i think it shows the evolution of character

it shows that at one point owen was more....compassionate, i guess, but as he got older, he became a grumpy old man

[Sargoth]

Originally posted by Mothman+Oct 28 2004, 07:41 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mothman @ Oct 28 2004, 07:41 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Sargoth@Oct 28 2004, 08:12 PM
Could this line have been a coincidence?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


A coincidence? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

My point simply is, if they were going to do the paralell between Luke/Anakin, standing up and leaving the table with someone saying "Where are you going?" why didn't they have Beru say it in AOTC as well?? She *was* at the table. They came 90% within "completing the circle", then threw a little curve by having Owen deliver the line. Perhaps 'coincidence' was a bad choice of words. I wonder if they intended this line to be spoken by the same person who spoke it in ANH, but due to some 'event' (rushed editing, the continuity guy had the day off, etc), it wound up being delivered by a different character.

The parallel is absolutely there. I just wonder if Owen speaking the line instead of Beru was their original intention.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Sargoth+Oct 29 2004, 11:03 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sargoth @ Oct 29 2004, 11:03 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Mothman@Oct 28 2004, 07:41 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Sargoth@Oct 28 2004, 08:12 PM
Could this line have been a coincidence?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


A coincidence? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


My point simply is, if they were going to do the paralell between Luke/Anakin, standing up and leaving the table with someone saying "Where are you going?" why didn't they have Beru say it in AOTC as well?? She *was* at the table. They came 90% within "completing the circle", then threw a little curve by having Owen deliver the line. Perhaps 'coincidence' was a bad choice of words. I wonder if they intended this line to be spoken by the same person who spoke it in ANH, but due to some 'event' (rushed editing, the continuity guy had the day off, etc), it wound up being delivered by a different character.

The parallel is absolutely there. I just wonder if Owen speaking the line instead of Beru was their original intention.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

In AOTC, it would not be "appropriate" for Beru to ask the question. At this point in the family timeline, she's "just the girlfriend."

Actually, I think that the parallel is already there:
-- In AOTC, Cliegg is at the head of the table. In ANH, Owen is at the head of the table. As such, they signify the head of the household, so to speak.
-- In AOTC, Owen asks the question ("Where are you going?"). In ANH, Beru asks the same question. In this case, they each signify the "second in command," so to speak.
If you look at it from this point of view, there is an exact parallel.

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>-- In AOTC, Cliegg is at the head of the table. In ANH, Owen is at the head of the table. As such, they signify the head of the household, so to speak.
-- In AOTC, Owen asks the question ("Where are you going?"). In ANH, Beru asks the same question. In this case, they each signify the "second in command," so to speak.
If you look at it from this point of view, there is an exact parallel. [/b][/quote]
A very good point you make about the second in command at the table. To add to that, both Owen and later Beru were sitting in the same seat at the side of the table when they asked the question.

[Momin327]

AOTC/ANH:

When Obi-Wan and a Skywalker are in a tavern setting, Obi-Wan calmly sits drinking while the Skywalker seems tense.

[Tovor]

Good one. I noticed that too. And Obi-Wan sliced an arm off in both cases.

[Momin327]

ROTJ/TPM:

A small ship penetrates the inside of a larger ship and destroys the larger ship with two proton torpedoes.

A Sith lord falls to his death down a shaft.

A green lightsaber is used to defeat a Sith Lord.

Funeral pyre

Celebration between Humans and a primitive society.

[Momin327]

ROTJ & ANH:

Leia, as a prisoner, is pulled back by her captor as some point during her captivity as she watches something.

[Kapit]

AOTC/ESB

the first kiss between the romantic couple is cut short

[Momin327]

TPM/ROTJ:

Jabba the Hutt has a bikini-clad slave girl by his side.

[Momin327]

ROTJ/ANH:

Leia provides cover from Stormtroopers as Han/Luke are doing something.

[Sluggo]

Well, this is cool. Glad to see the thread sparking some imagination. One of my favorite parts of these films has been their symmetry. It seems that the six films have a regular pattern of similarities:

A. A New Hope
...B. The Empire Strikes Back
......C. Return of the Jedi
A. The Phantom Menace
...B. Attack of the Clones
......C. Revenge of the Sith

Or the other way around if you want to look them chronologically. Interestingly, they also have an inverted pattern of parallels (to a lesser degree) where

A. A New Hope
...B. The Empire Strikes Back
......C. Return of the Jedi
......C. The Phantom Menace
...B. Attack of the Clones
A. Revenge of the Sith.

One of the ANH/ROTS parallels I am looking forward to is the particular ship they filmed in for both films. Not wanting to spoil anything (this isn't the spoiler thread, after all) I'll leave it at that, even though the Official site and the Insider talk about it.

One of my favorite ESB/AOTC parallel is the Temptation of the Sith "Join Me", etc. Very cool.

Another thing I really like is how ideas are dropped from one film and make it into the next one. The scene where Obi-wan gets his lightsaber fried in the Naboo swamps never made the final cut, but the idea shows back up in Attack of the Clones, where Anakin loses his saber and Obi-wan gives him a lecture.
Also notice that ANH was supposed to start with Luke watching the 'space battle' from the ground with his binocs, but this was cut. Empire begins with Luke on the ground checking out an object from the belly of a star destroyer (where the Tantive IV ended up) with his binocs.
R2 was supposed to fly in TPM, but it was cut. This was fully realized by a CG R2 in Clones.

[Momin327]

ANH/ESB:

Leia listens to the intercom in the Rebel base as Luke flies into a battle.

[Sargoth]

Originally posted by Sluggo@Nov 2 2004, 01:10 AM
Another thing I really like is how ideas are dropped from one film and make it into the next one.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


The idea of the "Air Whales" has been around since the early drafts and concepts of ANH. It took 25 years for these to be realized on screen!

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Sargoth+Nov 3 2004, 07:41 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sargoth @ Nov 3 2004, 07:41 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Sluggo@Nov 2 2004, 01:10 AM
Another thing I really like is how ideas are dropped from one film and make it into the next one.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


The idea of the "Air Whales" has been around since the early drafts and concepts of ANH. It took 25 years for these to be realized on screen!
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

What are the "Air Whales"?

[Sargoth]

Originally posted by Mothman@Nov 5 2004, 10:11 AM
What are the "Air Whales"?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/aiwha/?id=bts

[Momin327]

ROTJ/TPM:

A small ship, with important passengers, asks a larger station for permission to dock.

ESB/TPM:

A shield generator has an important role during the ground battle.

ANH/TPM:

The heroes are shot as when they are escaping in their starship.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Sargoth+Nov 5 2004, 11:48 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sargoth @ Nov 5 2004, 11:48 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Mothman@Nov 5 2004, 10:11 AM
What are the "Air Whales"?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/aiwha/?id=bts
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

Thank you! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[JLX-1138]

More about the titles:

TPM: can be applied to Sidious and the risng of his empire, and to Anakin and his dark future
ANH: could be applied to the Rebellion that could turn the tide and to Luke and his light future

AOTC: the republic strikes back, it seems positive but we all know how it will end, with the final victory for the dark side
ESB: the empire strikes back, not a very good thing for our heroes but we know how it will end, with the fianal victory for our heroes.

ROTJ: Anakin comes back to the light, Luke is not seduced by the dark side of the force. They both return with glory, even if fir Anakin it's not for a long time.
ROTS: Anakin is seduced by the dark side of the Force. Sidious and Vader avenge themselves by overtaking the galaxy and destroying the Jedi. A revenge with glory from their certain point of view.

Anakin standing after his nightmare, hands in the back in aotc. Vader stands the same in esb or rotj.

the end of aotc and esb: 2 droids, 2 skywalkers looking at the horizon.

that's all for now.

[Darth Star]

In AOTC/ESB a Skywalker willingly leaps from a great height and survives despite improbable odds.

[Momin327]

AOTC/ESB:

C-3PO is damaged, and fixed by R2-D2, who drags his body around.

[CyHunter]

Originally posted by Sluggo@Oct 23 2004, 06:23 PM
What if Anakin would have burned Shmi's body instead of burying her?

It's true, this seems the one time in SW where a signifigant character who leaves a body behind isn't burned. Not exactly a parallel to Ep I or VI's pyres, though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Is the battle of Hoth more powerful to watch than the battle of Geonosis?[/b][/quote]

Actually, I think the Geonosis battle is more powerful (it's definitely grown on me the more I see it). I mean, this is the first appearance of the "white knights" in action--and it is basically the gunshot that begins the bloodshed to follow in the next four episodes. Hoth is a great battle as well, and I love the airspeeders--but I don't think it has quite the same historical impact.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Is the Phantom Menace closer in structure to Return of the Jedi or A New Hope?[/b][/quote]

Now this is an interesting point. I guess what you're saying is "Is it paralleling the beginning of the second generation or is it bringing things full circle?" I'm not really sure it's either.

People who complain about Ep I find flaws with Jar Jar being annoying or Jake Lloyd being too cutsey. I think those are all superficial issues that don't make or break it--I think it's underlying problem is of a structural one. It has a very fast and grinding way of going from A to B to C to D to C to B to A to D, etc... In a structural sense, it doesn't parallel either Ep IV or VI, IMO.

In a thematic way, I suppose it more parallels Ep IV, as it shows the introduction of the hero character and sets up conflicts that will carry through to the following films. The problem with comparing them is that Ep IV and Ep VI are basing much of their material on what occurs in Ep I (The origin of the empire, Luke's father, Threepio and Artoo, etc.) so it's less about comparing them and more about layering them.

[Sluggo]

Originally posted by CyHunter@Nov 16 2004, 04:48 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Is the Phantom Menace closer in structure to Return of the Jedi or A New Hope?

Now this is an interesting point. I guess what you're saying is "Is it paralleling the beginning of the second generation or is it bringing things full circle?" I'm not really sure it's either.


<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

Well, not really in so many words, but since you bring it up, is the beginning worthy of the end? Is the end worthy of the beginning? And is the end worthy of the end?* I am not sure my structuralist approach contains that answer, but I think it points things in the right direction.












*Won't know that until it's counterpart (Episode III) comes out.

[Master_Mams]

Look at the twin suns of tatooine:


[attachmentid=6645]
[attachmentid=6646]


I love this one, because one is the begining of the night while the other is a new dawn after the same night. Extremly symbolic. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.gif
And those 2 shots are in the ROTS teaser trailer.

[darthimmus]

Another AOTC/ESB parallel:
Blasters are fired on a landing pad (situated on a city in the middle of a "sea") as a Fett makes an escape in Slave I.

The "sea" is a sea of clouds in ESB and a literal sea in ATOC

[darthimmus]

Non-spoiler ROTJ/ROTS:
Skywalker must choose between the light and dark sides of the force...and his choice will seal the fate of either the Jedi or the Sith

This applies to both Luke in episode 6 and Akankin in episodes 3 AND 6

[Momin327]

TPM/ANH:

A Tusken Raider aims at a Skywalker traveling through the Jundland Wastes with his rifle.

[Sluggo]

Anakin and Han Solo had to fly thier ship sideways to fit through a narrow ravine. (TPM and ESB)

[borgmatrix]

Here's one I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention:

In TPM, an overconfident Maul seems to have the advantage only to see Obi-wan vault up and out of danger using the Force.

In ESB, a similarly overconfident Vader remarks "All to easy" at which point Luke leaps up out of the carbonite chamber using the Force.

[Sluggo]

Bump!!!

[Momin327]

ROTS:

Anakin has visions of bad things happening to his loved one (Padme), and acts hoping to stop it.

ESB:

Luke has visions of bad things happening to his loved ones (Han, Leia), and acts hoping to stop it.

[Sluggo]

I loved the Wookiee "Tarzan" yells in Sith and Jedi.

[Momin327]

During the Order 66 montage, when the Scout troopers on speeder bikes fall back behind that Jedi, it reminded me of ROTJ, when Luke does the same thing to two Scout troopers on his speeder bike.

[James William Alexander Atreides]

Hey, the more things change, the more they stay the same. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[Sluggo]

Bumpity-bump bump!

[Sluggo]

I was watching Sith again on the big screen last night and I was struck by the similarities with the endings of Episodes 1 and 3. Particularly Padme's and Qui-gon's funerals. The same cast of characters were there, minus all the dead or hiding Jedi. And the funeral procession through the great Naboo architecture reminded me of the victory parade at the end of the Phantom Menace. One feels like the opposite of the other.

[Erick Landrider]

^ Not to mention the music was the same. (Beautiful piece by the way).

'Jedi' and 'Revenge' have a duel betwen a Sith Lord and a young Jedi while Palpatine watches on.

Both Luke and Anakin make impulsive descions to try and help those who they love, and both based on visions through the Force.

For both Skywalkers, the third film see what they do under their own guidance. Luke is left alone after Yoda dies and Obi-Wan leaves him again, similarly to how Anakin is alone in the Jedi Council Chamber. Both sides of influence have had their say, but ultimately it's there descisions that determine their destinies.

That's all for now.

[Sluggo]

Originally posted by GollaFett@Oct 8 2005, 11:12 PM
Now we all know how GL likes to have various themes reoccur throughout the SW saga, right? Well, I have one I'd like to add to the list.
The duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul in TPM and the duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin/Vader (I'll simply call him Vader the rest of the time) in ROTS share a rather significgant theme.
In TPM, Obi-Wan is at the mercy of Maul while hanging down that reactor shaft. How did he get there? He allowed emotion to control his actions when he charged Maul after he had struck down Qui-Gon. That emotion, obviously, was anger. As we all know, anger leads to the dark side. Obi-Wan had a dark side moment when he attacked Maul and it nearly cost him his life. It wasn't until he was hanging down there when he finally calmed himself and allowed the Force to flow through him without anger or hate. it was that that allowed him to fling himself from that shaft, overtop of Maul, force grab Qui-Gon's lightsaber, and defeat Maul.
Fast forward 12 years to Mustafar and the duel between Obi-Wan and Vader.
Obi-Wan has just lept from the floating platform and has the 'high ground'. Much like the high ground that Maul had over him in TPM. Vader's only shot is to leap from that platform and overtop of Obi-Wan to resume the duel. Obi-Wan was there 12 years earlier and knew what it would take to succeed. He also knew that Vader would not be able to calm himself enough with the force to succeed. He was too full of hate and anger and the dark side. Add to that the fact that Obi-Wan did succeed at that move and also knows what to do to defend it and Vader stood no chance.
Basically, the theme I see repeated is how Obi-Wan shakes off the dark side and uses the force as his ally to escape certain death against Maul, and how he uses that knowledge years later against Vader, who is utterly consumed by hate and anger and the dark side, in a very similar scenario.
I don't know if any of what I wrote is clear, it sounded so much better in my head, and I knew I'd have trouble explaining it. Anyway, your thoughts are appreciated.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


I like what GollaFett said, so I'm mentioning it here as well.

Let's not forget about the Wookiee swing in the forest battle (ROTJ and ROTS). And the cool Tarzan yell.

[billytheskink]

the space battles of Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith both involve traps, though they are slightly different traps. The revelation of such traps is much better when done by Ackbar, perhaps he should have joined Anakin and Kenobi...

[Sluggo]

I posted this in another thread, but it fits here, so...

I just noticed a parallel with film making technique called the McGuffin. The McGuffin is something that the plot supposedly is about, but the audience doesn't really care about. The Death Star plans are something that drive all the characters to action, but the audience isn't corncerned with them. Nobody really cares about if the Empire really gets the plans, we are more concerned about Luke's adventure quest.

The equivalant to the Death Star plans in The Phantom Menace is the treaty that Amidala is 'persuaded' to sign. Ergo, the whole point of the movie is the treaty, if you take my meaning. Sidious's main objective to Nute and the boys is to make sure Amidala is forced to sign the treaty, ensuring more turmoil in the senate and eventually giving him more power.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/holosid.gif

[Mothman]

I liked how in ROTS, Palpatine's face kind of melted when he was hit with his reflected Force Lightning. Then, the way Luke's face kind of melted in ROTJ when he was hit straight on with Palpatine's Force Lightning ....... Oh, that's right. That didn't happen that way. Never mind. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Sluggo]

Still, force lightning was a big part of both movies. In one, Anakin saved the last Sith from a Jedi Master, and in the other, Anakin saved the last Jedi from a Sith Master.

[Mothman]

I was watching the ROTS DVD over the weekend.

One of the parallels that jumped out at me was near the end, when lil' Ani is on Mustafar and he has just wiped out the Separatist leaders. He is reporting in to the Emperor. I liked how the Emperor's hologram image style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/holosid.gif was huge and the newly-knighted Lord Vader is small by comparison. It struck me to be alot like when Vader style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/vader.gif is kneeling before the Emperor's hologram image in ESB.

[The Bandit]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I just noticed a parallel with film making technique called the McGuffin. The McGuffin is something that the plot supposedly is about, but the audience doesn't really care about. The Death Star plans are something that drive all the characters to action, but the audience isn't corncerned with them. Nobody really cares about if the Empire really gets the plans, we are more concerned about Luke's adventure quest.[/b][/quote]

That's not really a McGuffin, as the Death Star plans are crucial to the plot --> our heroes are going to die if they don't get to the Alliance and the Death Star itself plays a crucial role as both a setting and a plot device in the film. The plans would better serve as a McGuffin if the Death Star were not a threat and was not shown in the film.

This is different from the quintessential McGuffin, which is of course the microfilm in Hitchcock's North by Northwest -- what is on the film is irrelevant to the plot, it only exists to drive the plot.

The briefcase in Pulp Fiction is another good example.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The equivalant to the Death Star plans in The Phantom Menace is the treaty that Amidala is 'persuaded' to sign. Ergo, the whole point of the movie is the treaty, if you take my meaning. Sidious's main objective to Nute and the boys is to make sure Amidala is forced to sign the treaty, ensuring more turmoil in the senate and eventually giving him more power. [/b][/quote]

This is closer... but I don't think you're quite getting what the McGuffin is in terms of cinema. Might as well go to the source on this one -->

Originally posted by "Alfred Hitchcock"
It might be a Scottish name, taken from a story about two men in a train. One man says, 'What's that package up there in the baggage rack?' And the other answers, 'Oh that's a McGuffin.' The first one asks 'What's a McGuffin?' 'Well' the other man says, 'It's an apparatus for trapping lions in the Scottish Highlands.' The first man says, 'But there are no lions in the Scottish Highlands,' and the other one answers 'Well, then that's no McGuffin!' So you see, a McGuffin is nothing at all.

-- 2bq

[KingKongsK]

I dont think anyone has mentioned this. In both AOTC and ESB , there was a problem with needed Technology

AOTC - Obi-Wan's Long Range Transmitter wasn't working

ESB - Millenium Falcon's Hyperdrive wasn't working

[Erick Landrider]

Ray shields!

I just realized this the other night.

Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Palpatine were caught up in ray shields on Grevious' ship, which ties into the exhaust port on the Death Star, which was ray shielded.

[Ant]

Oh Yeah

[Momin327]

I just had the most provoking thought. The scene in ROTS where Anakin reaches for Obi-Wan as he burns is reminiscent of the scene in ESB when Luke reaches for Obi-Wan's spirit as he's freezing.

[Erick Landrider]

Probably doesn't mean anything.

The destroyer scene's on the Federation ships are almost exatly alike in both 'Menace' and 'Revenge'. One time with Anakin and Obi-wan and the earlier time with Quo-gon and Obi-wan.

[Momin327]

It just popped into my mind. And Anakin and Luke are reaching with the same arm in both scenes!

[Erick Landrider]

eh? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

[Sluggo]

Originally posted by Momin327@Nov 29 2005, 08:26 PM
I just had the most provoking thought. The scene in ROTS where Anakin reaches for Obi-Wan as he burns is reminiscent of the scene in ESB when Luke reaches for Obi-Wan's spirit as he's freezing.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Nice. I do like the contrast between the burning and the freezing as well.

I wonder how far one could take the parallels between these two scenes. Both Luke and Anakin are rescued by a friend after that, both are given medical attention, there's the discussion of losing a loved one right after that... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sidxmas.gif

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Momin327@Nov 29 2005, 09:26 PM
I just had the most provoking thought. The scene in ROTS where Anakin reaches for Obi-Wan as he burns is reminiscent of the scene in ESB when Luke reaches for Obi-Wan's spirit as he's freezing.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Nice observation! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Sluggo]

Compare this scene in Episode 2 (as it was in the shooting script):

INT. COCKPIT, NABOO STARSHIP - SUNSET

ANAKIN sits down in the cockpit with PADME. THREEPIO is behind them. ARTOO is beside him. They are watching a hologram of MACE WINDU.

MACE WINDU
We will deal with Count Dooku. The most important thing for you, Anakin, is to stay where you are. Protect the Senator at all costs. That is your priority.

ANAKIN
Understood, Master.


with this scene in Episode 3:

124 INT. JEDI GUNSHIP-LANDING PLATFORM-EARLY EVENING

MACE and the JEDI (AGEN KOLAR, KIT FISTO, AND SAESEE TIIN) are preparing to board a JEDI GUNSHIP to the CHANCELLOR's office. ANAKIN enters the hangar.

ANAKIN: Master Windu, I must talk to you.

Mace Windu: What is it, Skywalker? We are in a hurry. We have just received word that Obi-Wan has destroyed General Grievous. We are on our way to make sure the Chancellor returns emergency powers back to the Senate.

ANAKIN: He won't give up his power. I've just learned a terrible truth. I think Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord.

Mace Windu: A Sith Lord?

ANAKIN: Yes. The one we have been looking for.

Mace Windu: How do you know this?

ANAKIN: He knows the ways of the Force. He has been trained to use the dark side.

Mace Windu: Are you sure?

ANAKIN: Absolutely.

Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

ANAKIN: Master, the Chancellor is very powerful. You will need my help if you are going to arrest him.

Mace Windu: For your own good, stay out of this affair. I sense a great deal of confusion in you, young Skywalker. There is much fear that clouds your judgment.

ANAKIN: I must go, Master.

Mace Windu: No. If what you told me is true, you will have gained my trust, but for now remain here.

ANAKIN: Yes, Master.

Mace Windu: Wait for us in the Council Chamber until we return.

ANAKIN: Yes, Master.

ANAKIN watches as the JEDI leave in their ship.


You think Mace would have learned in Episode 2 that Anakin won't sit around and wait. It's a recipe for disaster! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sidxmas.gif

[Erick Landrider]

Keep in mind that happened at the beginning of the Clone Wars. Anakin supposedly had agrown a great deal in that time. Not to mention that Mace didn't want Anakin there, and likely couldn't have even imagined the course of events which were going to take place.

Give Mace some credit.

[Sluggo]

Well, sure. But that wasn't my point.

[Sluggo]

Hey, it got moved. I shoulda had it here in the first place. And back to the parallels.

[T-bone]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by Sluggo@Dec 30 2005, 02:22 AM
Well, sure. But that wasn't my point.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>




Hmm. Sorry, what was your point on that?

[Sluggo]

Just that both movies had Mace telling Anakin to stay behind while the Jedi went after a Sith Lord. And Anakin ignored the order both times.

[Erick Landrider]

Okay, I follow. but the fact remains that Mace did not want Anakin in the middle of all that.

This isn't quite a parrallel, but it is something i just noticed.

Leia refers to Obi-wan as her "only hope".

However Obi-wan not long after is killed. This sets up Luke as A New Hope. Interesting way of passing off the torch from one Jedi to another.

[Erick Landrider]

This doesn't completely fit in this, but it is a very interesting new perspective on one of my favorite scenes.

In TESB, when Luke is hanging off of the weather main, and he reaches out to find Leia, if you think about it, it's the first real time that they as brother and sister connect on a higher level. If one were to watch the films 1-6, this would become one of the most critical points in the entire saga.

It sets up a first connection between the two which build into the revelation that they are infact twins.

[Sluggo]

True. I've always thought the weather vane scene (and the following Vader communicating with Luke through the force while Luke was recuperating on the Falcon) would have book-ended nicely with Vader communicating with Luke at the beginning of Jedi, but it was cut.

[Erick Landrider]

That scene is also important because (once again, assuming that one is watching the films 1-6), it shows a connection with Luke and Leia.

I hadn't remembered this perticular scene, and it would seem kind of lame for the both of them to go the entire trilogy and only figure it out in the last 1/6.

It says something great without really saying it.

[Erick Landrider]

Both Luke and Obi-Wan loose there Jedi Mentors of the first film of each trilogy.

[Sluggo]

One of the things that struck me lately is the repeated dialogue in many of the space battles. Particularly lines like "Lock s-foils in attack formation". The novelization of ROTJ (I assume it is following the shooting script) has numerous lines repeated from ANH.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Erick Landrider@Feb 6 2006, 11:23 AM
Both Luke and Obi-Wan loose there Jedi Mentors of the first film of each trilogy.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


And, they both yell, "NOOOOOO!" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/butbut.gif when it happens.

[Erick Landrider]

I had to laugh at that.

Any time that I hear the word "No" in a Star Wars context, I think of Vader.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/vader.gif "Noooo!"

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by Sluggo@Feb 6 2006, 12:47 PM
One of the things that struck me lately is the repeated dialogue in many of the space battles. Particularly lines like "Lock s-foils in attack formation". The novelization of ROTJ (I assume it is following the shooting script) has numerous lines repeated from ANH.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


That was probably one of my favorite cross over lines. That and when Palpatine told Anakin that good and evil is a "point of view". Oh man, goose bumps to the max!

[Sluggo]

Both Anakin and Luke aren't introduced until about 20 or so minutes in Episodes 1 and 4 respectively.

[Commander Zero]

ESB and AOTC:


Both features Rishi Maze.

In AOTC, Obi-Wan was looking at a map featuring the said cluster of stars while looking for Kamino.

In ESB, the siblings were looking at it at the end scene while the Falcon with Lando and Chewie on it was flying over the cluster of stars.

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by Commander Zero@Mar 2 2006, 09:00 AM
ESB and AOTC:


Both features Rishi Maze.

In AOTC, Obi-Wan was looking at a map featuring the said cluster of stars while looking for Kamino.

In ESB, the siblings were looking at it at the end scene while the Falcon with Lando and Chewie on it was flying over the cluster of stars.
Quoted post


I'd never thought of it that way. It make sense though. I'd always wondered where another galaxy just randomly popped up from.

[Braden Dar]

One parallel I was looking for was the line, "I've got a bad feeling about this." That line did not appear in at least one of the Prequels.
But each movie was pieced together in a certain manner.
Ep I and IV are our introductions to the essential characters, of course.
Ep II and V are the first major in-depth battles, Hoth and Geonsis.
Ep III and VI are epic confrontations between Jedi and Sith, Ep III ending with the Jedi ultimately on the losing side while VI has the Jedi on the winning side.
There are a great many other possibilities, a number listed here already, that this thread could go 30 pages or more.

[Sluggo]

Originally posted by Braden Dar@Mar 3 2006, 04:41 PM
One parallel I was looking for was the line, "I've got a bad feeling about this." That line did not appear in at least one of the Prequels.
But each movie was pieced together in a certain manner.
Ep I and IV are our introductions to the essential characters, of course.
Ep II and V are the first major in-depth battles, Hoth and Geonsis.
Ep III and VI are epic confrontations between Jedi and Sith, Ep III ending with the Jedi ultimately on the losing side while VI has the Jedi on the winning side.
There are a great many other possibilities, a number listed here already, that this thread could go 30 pages or more.
Quoted post


30 pages? That would be a shame! :nahnah:

Speaking of bad feelings, I put all of 'em in an mp3 (http://s17.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3R4Y6HUDSMDH32SIJNKBVIWG91) a while ago. Enjoy.

[Braden Dar]

LOL Sluggo.

Its easy to consider all the parallels when you think about the simple fact that Lucas probably wrote many of them into the films. I think he liked the continuity that repetative lines would bring to the characters, and he simply continued the theme in the PT.
Plus, there's the parallel of what role Lucas himself played in the Trilogies. Very hands on in the first movie of each Trilogy, then he allowed more "outside" involvement in the next two, though having a specific demand for the ending of the third movie of each Trilogy. You can say that GL grew tired and was plum worn out by the time he got to EP's III and VI, or you can believe that he was stepping aside to allow those he trusted with his vision to take a more active role. He went from writing almost all of the story for Ep IV and Ep I, to co-writing the stories on the rest. And he went from being the Director as well as the head Executive on those Ep's, to being less Director and more Executive on Ep's II,III,V,and VI.
Of course...one parallel is that Ep's I and IV were there to tell a story, but mainly to introduce us to the main characters (not as much so in Ep IV, since GL didn't know that this was going to be so big).
There's the locations aspect. He used so many of the same locations in the Trilogies.
There are the epic duels and when they take place in each movie. In Ep's I and IV, the timing is a little different; Ep's II and V are roughly the same timing and with a similar theme (Dooku and Vader were the Emperor's apprentice and were supposed to help to turn someone that the Emperor wanted, or kill him if he refused); Ep's III and VI were climactic duels with everything on the line for the combatants. And there was the bonus duel near the begining of Ep III. I don't know where there is supposed to be a parallel with that one. :blush:

[jayce78]

''I have a bad feeling about this'' . . . .

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Braden Dar@Mar 3 2006, 05:41 PM
One parallel I was looking for was the line, "I've got a bad feeling about this." That line did not appear in at least one of the Prequels...
Quoted post


This line was in every movie, wasn't it? (Although off the top of my head I can't recall where it is in AOTC.)

[Sluggo]

Anakin said it as he was being chained up in the execution arena.

[Rabid Whiphid]

Originally posted by Braden Dar@Mar 3 2006, 04:41 PM
One parallel I was looking for was the line, "I've got a bad feeling about this." That line did not appear in at least one of the Prequels.



It's in all the movies.

Ep. 1: Spoken by Obi Wan at the very beginning when he and Qui Gon enter the Trade Federation ship Conference Room.

Ep. 2: Spoken by Anakin when he's bound to the pillar in the execution arena.

Ep. 3: Spoken by Obi Wan during the opening space battle.

Ep. 4: Spoken by Luke as the Millenium Falcon approaches the Death Star, and later spoken by Han when they're in the Trash Compactor.

Ep. 5: Spoken by Leia when they are walking around inside the Asteroid Cave (actually the Space Slug's stomach.)

Ep. 6: Spoken by C-3PO when he and R2 are led by Bib Fortuna into Jabba's throne room, and then by Han when he's about to be cooked on a spit for the Ewok's dinner.

[Rabid Whiphid]

I'm feeling too lazy at the momnt to go back and find out if somebody else has already mentioned this but...

Color schemes:

TPM/ANH & ROTJ - Browns and earth tones (Tatooine, in all 3 cases), Greens (Naboo, Yavin 4, Endor), greys and neutral tones (Trade Federation ship interiors, Death Star interiors).

AOTC/ESB - Dominated by white and a range of light and dark blues (Coruscant, Kamino, Hoth, Dagobah, Cloud City interiors) which is contrasted in alternating scenes using intense oranges (Geonosis, Cloud City exteriors).

ROTS/ROTJ - Not many paralells here... Similar color patterns in the giant space battles in both films, but nothing in ROTS compares to the multi-colored denizens of Jabba's Palace in ROTJ, and nothing in ROTJ compares to the stark contrast of black and orange of Mustafar in ROTS.

[Sluggo]

Originally posted by Rabid Whiphid+Mar 22 2006, 06:30 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rabid Whiphid @ Mar 22 2006, 06:30 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Braden Dar@Mar 3 2006, 04:41 PM
One parallel I was looking for was the line, "I've got a bad feeling about this." That line did not appear in at least one of the Prequels.



It's in all the movies.

Ep. 1: Spoken by Obi Wan at the very beginning when he and Qui Gon enter the Trade Federation ship Conference Room.

Ep. 2: Spoken by Anakin when he's bound to the pillar in the execution arena.

Ep. 3: Spoken by Obi Wan during the opening space battle.

Ep. 4: Spoken by Luke as the Millenium Falcon approaches the Death Star, and later spoken by Han when they're in the Trash Compactor.

Ep. 5: Spoken by Leia when they are walking around inside the Asteroid Cave (actually the Space Slug's stomach.)

Ep. 6: Spoken by C-3PO when he and R2 are led by Bib Fortuna into Jabba's throne room, and then by Han when he's about to be cooked on a spit for the Ewok's dinner.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

just as a side note, the shooting script had Lando also say the line after he complains to Vader about altering the deal.

[Rabid Whiphid]

Originally posted by Sluggo+Mar 23 2006, 11:25 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sluggo @ Mar 23 2006, 11:25 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Rabid Whiphid@Mar 22 2006, 06:30 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Braden Dar@Mar 3 2006, 04:41 PM
One parallel I was looking for was the line, "I've got a bad feeling about this." That line did not appear in at least one of the Prequels.



It's in all the movies.

Ep. 1: Spoken by Obi Wan at the very beginning when he and Qui Gon enter the Trade Federation ship Conference Room.

Ep. 2: Spoken by Anakin when he's bound to the pillar in the execution arena.

Ep. 3: Spoken by Obi Wan during the opening space battle.

Ep. 4: Spoken by Luke as the Millenium Falcon approaches the Death Star, and later spoken by Han when they're in the Trash Compactor.

Ep. 5: Spoken by Leia when they are walking around inside the Asteroid Cave (actually the Space Slug's stomach.)

Ep. 6: Spoken by C-3PO when he and R2 are led by Bib Fortuna into Jabba's throne room, and then by Han when he's about to be cooked on a spit for the Ewok's dinner.
Quoted post


just as a side note, the shooting script had Lando also say the line after he complains to Vader about altering the deal.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]



Aww, that would have been a good place for it. I always thought Lando should have said it somewhere. Although I do enjoy his "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!" Because it sounds like a genuine Star Wars line, like something Han would say.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Sluggo@Mar 22 2006, 01:21 PM
Anakin said it as he was being chained up in the execution arena.
Quoted post


Thanks! :bye:

[RollaFett]

I created a thread for one parallel that I believe occurred in TPM and ROTS.

And here IT (http://www.galacticsenate.com/index.php?showtopic=15931&hl=) is.

[Sluggo]

Originally posted by GollaFett@Mar 24 2006, 12:12 PM
Now we all know how GL likes to have various themes reoccur throughout the SW saga, right? Well, I have one I'd like to add to the list.
The duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul in TPM and the duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin/Vader (I'll simply call him Vader the rest of the time) in ROTS share a rather significgant theme.
In TPM, Obi-Wan is at the mercy of Maul while hanging down that reactor shaft. How did he get there? He allowed emotion to control his actions when he charged Maul after he had struck down Qui-Gon. That emotion, obviously, was anger. As we all know, anger leads to the dark side. Obi-Wan had a dark side moment when he attacked Maul and it nearly cost him his life. It wasn't until he was hanging down there when he finally calmed himself and allowed the Force to flow through him without anger or hate. it was that that allowed him to fling himself from that shaft, overtop of Maul, force grab Qui-Gon's lightsaber, and defeat Maul.
Fast forward 12 years to Mustafar and the duel between Obi-Wan and Vader.
Obi-Wan has just lept from the floating platform and has the 'high ground'. Much like the high ground that Maul had over him in TPM. Vader's only shot is to leap from that platform and overtop of Obi-Wan to resume the duel. Obi-Wan was there 12 years earlier and knew what it would take to succeed. He also knew that Vader would not be able to calm himself enough with the force to succeed. He was too full of hate and anger and the dark side. Add to that the fact that Obi-Wan did succeed at that move and also knows what to do to defend it and Vader stood no chance.
Basically, the theme I see repeated is how Obi-Wan shakes off the dark side and uses the force as his ally to escape certain death against Maul, and how he uses that knowledge years later against Vader, who is utterly consumed by hate and anger and the dark side, in a very similar scenario.
I don't know if any of what I wrote is clear, it sounded so much better in my head, and I knew I'd have trouble explaining it. Anyway, your thoughts are appreciated.



Nice. I remember reading that. A great observation worthy of recognition in the archives of the Jedi Order. :lol: I'd bet that Obi-wan wondered for a second whether to cut Anakin in half like he did with Maul or just seriously disable him.

[andrewkess159]

ANH and ESB both begin with a big Imperial ship flying overhead.

The first half of the PT movies all have Jar Jar.

Darth Vader/ Anakin kill a new person in each movie:

killed:
ANH Obi-wan, rebel commander, etc...
ESB Imperial workers aboard star destroyer, etc...
ROTJ Palpy :)

TPM All aboard the droid command ship
AOTC the sandpeople
ROTS everyone!

At the end of all movies, Luke/Anakin is looking either towards or away from the camera

[Momin327]

*Bump*

ROTS/ANH:

When Anakin/Vader and Obi-Wan fight, the one that ignites their lightsaber first (Obi-Wan in ROTS, Vader in ANH) is the one who wins, the one who walks away with the other's lightsaber.

[Momin327]

I just thought of something. It hit me in the face like a wampa claw on a chilly Hoth morning. A parallel in lines between TPM and ROTS:

TPM:

Gunray: "My Lord, it is impossible to locate the ship. It's out of our range.

Sidious: "Not for a Sith..."

Now, compare that with this exchange from ROTS:

Anakin: "Is it possible to learn this power?"

Palpatine/Sidious: "Not from a Jedi."

When Palpatine/Sidious said the former line in TPM, his hood covered his upper face, hiding his eyes from Gunray and Haako. When Palpatine/Sidious says the latter line in ROTS, he's not hiding his face from Anakin. By the time of ROTS, Palpatine/Sidious is about ready to unleash his plot, so he sees no more need to hide himself.

[Momin327]

*Bump*

AOTC: Anakin gets a blue-bladed lightsaber from Obi-Wan. Anakin uses this saber to fight a Sith lord (Dooku), but he loses part of his right arm during that duel.

ANH: Luke gets a blue-bladed lightsaber from Obi-Wan. Luke uses this saber to fight a Sith lord (Vader), but loses part of his right arm during that duel.

[therealmixmaster]

Hello all,

I've enjoyed looking through some very interesting parallels here. You've done a very good job, and you've noted a lot that I hadn't noticed before.

I've made a website that I thought you might be interested in... it's about the visual parallels between the Star Wars films: http://gs.michaelhopcroft.com

I'm planning on expanding the site to cover dialogue parallels and it would be great if some of you wanted to get involved. If you're interested drop me an email at: gsadmin@michaelhopcroft.com

Cheers guys!
Michael