TV: Lost

[JackBauer24]

8 hours, 36 minutes!

[nefertiti]

TV Guide clip....


http://www.tvguide.com/

[DblDwn]

Just a reminder, in case anyone forgot, the new epsiodes are now on at 10/9 Central. The 9/8 Central episode tonight is a recap of previous episodes.

[Blizzard]

Minus 07:22

[Blizzard]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Sorry, still having a Lost moment!

Alex! Ben's STOLEN daughter! That is Danielle's daughter! Right? (I love that actress from Malcom in the Middle.)

I loved the pre-show. It outright explained things we more or less had to assume before.

[JackBauer24]

Maybe not STOLEN....maybe Danielle and Ben....

[Blizzard]

And then he stranded his ex on the island? Interesting...

[JackBauer24]

Well, if you'd had a kid with Rousseau, wouldn't you?

[Blizzard]

No! I wouldn't have slept with the weasel Ben Linus in the first place.

[JackBauer24]

No, but if you were a guy and you slept with Rousseau and the two of you had a kid, would you want to stay on the same island as her?

[Blizzard]

Why? What's wrong with Danielle?

[kopernikuz]

I think his point might be that she's a nutjob... lol... but to be fair, she probably wasn't a nutjob prior to her daughter being taken from her and abandoned on the island... soooooo....

[JackBauer24]

Why? What's wrong with Danielle?

I think his point might be that she's a nutjob... lol... but to be fair, she probably wasn't a nutjob prior to her daughter being taken from her and abandoned on the island... soooooo....

That's exactly my point. And personally, I think she WAS a nutjob when they crashed on the island...I think she's always been a nutjob.

[TAGLINE]

If she was crazy...does she have amnesia? I mean she caught Ben in that trap that introduced him into the story...if she was that connected with him she would know she slept with the guy.

I think they aren't on the big island because there is this giant cloud monster on it.

[Blizzard]

Aha! Exactly. Alex was stolen from her, THAT made her crazy, and Alex grew up from a baby thinking Ben was her father.

When the Others were shooting at Sawyer and Kate I told my son, "Those guys shoot like Stormtroopers." No sooner did I say that and Sawyer says, "I can't believe you fell for the Wookiee prisoner trick!" :lol:

[nefertiti]

Loved the Wook reference....!!!

But... as usual...I'm lost (hahah)... who's Danielle? You know how I get with all the names.... I mean I didn't get the Heroes names till EP 3, for crying out loud!

[STar war spUNK]

i seriously got super excited with the wookiee reference b/c i was thinking the same thing!

this show is starting to kill me... just tell me what's going to happen instead of confusing me for goodness sake!!!

[Blizzard]

Danielle is the French woman who kidnapped Sayid.

[TAGLINE]

Danielle is also known as Rousseau (http://imdb.com/title/tt0636280/quotes).

I am DYING for her flashback story.

[DblDwn]

I love 24 and Prison Break but Lost just keeps getting better and better. Arguably the best show on TV.

I agree with Blizz. Alex was taken from Rousseau when she was a baby and grew up believing that Ben was her father.

Who is the guy who was recruiting Juliet? Obviously he was recruiting her to go to the island, for reproductive research and the like, but we have not seen him before have we? I didn't recognize him anyway.

And does anyone else get the impression that Tom may end up helping Jack? He seemed to be warming up to him throughout the course of the episode. So much so that he even told Jack his name.

[TAGLINE]

The guy is obviously a Hanso lackey...even though he's knew. I suspect his character will play a part in a few episodes, connecting the story together.

[Blizzard]

As we found out, even the Others are prisoners on the island. Tom may want to go home just as bad as Julia and that could make him switch sides.

As for the recruiter, never saw him before, either.

[kopernikuz]

Who is the guy who was recruiting Juliet? Obviously he was recruiting her to go to the island, for reproductive research and the like, but we have not seen him before have we? I didn't recognize him anyway.
I dunno, but that Ethan sure gets around, eh? He's more than just a stranded and more than just an other we see now.

[TAGLINE]

As we found out, even the Others are prisoners on the island. Tom may want to go home just as bad as Julia and that could make him switch sides.

As for the recruiter, never saw him before, either.

Well...some of the Others are prisoners. Ethan clearly wasn't, and neither is Ben.

[Blizzard]

I want to see more of the kids. They still have all the kids from the plane somewhere.

[Justin]

This show is amazing.

[Ripley]

This show is amazing.

I agree. Best network show I've seen in a while.

[DblDwn]

Has there been any word as to whether or not we will ever see Michael and Walt again? Not in flashbacks but in the "current" timeline of the show.

[kopernikuz]

In this weeks EW, the creators answered some questions and that was one of them... the answer was that we WILL see them again and what happened to them after they left... but that it will be next season before it's fully revealed.

[P-Ray]

I finally got to watch it and I thought that it was excellent.

Loved the revelation about Julia/Juliette and the new question about what they were doing to Carl.

I'm also glad that they are going back to the original Island so we can see some of the other cast.

[nefertiti]

Danielle!

Damn...how did I forget her! Delenn from B5...thanks!

[James T. Skywalker]

Wow.

That episode blew my mind.

Welcome back, LOST!

~JTS

[DblDwn]

Right about the end of the episode Charlie was thinking he should have saved the 60 year old whiskey for until after he had gotten the info out of Desmond instead of using it to get the info.

[TAGLINE]

I guess they have read the messageboards about Charlie...

[kopernikuz]

What have they been saying?

[TAGLINE]

What have they been saying?

Charlie needs to die.

[kopernikuz]

Why "needs"?

[Blizzard]

No one needs to die. Please explain.

[Blizzard]

I got this from BobPalpatine

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z7swZaOWO3c

It's the scene where they rescue Carl, played backwards.

[DblDwn]

You mean when they rescued Larc?

[James T. Skywalker]

Freaky.

~JTS

[TAGLINE]

Why "needs"?

Because he annoys the fans and provides the worst episodes when they center around him.

[kopernikuz]

Huh... I kind of like him.

[DblDwn]

I have no problem with Charlie. He's far from my favorite character, or the most engaging, but he means well and his intentions are genuine as far as Clare is concerned.

[Master Cephus]

Yeah I was cracking up when Desmond was carrying here and Charlie was at his hip being a pestering fool in a nice way :)

I don't know. I can see the actor playing Charlie saying it's time to move on, but I have gotten to where I don't care for Charlie. Not in the sense that I wish he would die, but in the sense that I could care less if he were there or not.

This season I think the writers have done badly in how they have split everything. You aren't seeing the whole cast, but mostly on Jack, Kate, & Sawyer with sprinkling of Sun, Hurley, and Locke. You haven't heard much at all from Sayid, Rose, Claire, etc. It would be nice to return to the ensemble that we once had.

but I trust the writers. They have done a good job the first two seasons, and I don't see why I shouldn't let them do what they are doing.

[TAGLINE]

Well, I would have liked it more if the Writers had just made the first six episodes the "miniseason" that they had promised. They made it sound ike it would JUST be Kate, Jack and Sawyer with The Others for the first six episodes...

Ever since Charlie assaulted Sun last season, he's been a ticking clock in terms of his death. While he might mean well, he's a guy that we can no longer root for.

[Blizzard]

That's all opinion. In terms of storyline Charlie does not need to die, he a major part of the story and the island and always has been.

Unlike the Tailies, who we found were quite expendable.

[TAGLINE]

Opinion? that's the point since they are comments coming from blogs and messageboards.

How is Charlie a major part of the story? His episodes are always self contained and pretty useless to the overall plot. Now he's set on the path of dying...

[Blizzard]

What exactly is the overall plot?

[TAGLINE]

What exactly is the overall plot?

Are you seriously asking that?

[kopernikuz]

Are you seriously asking that?
You seem to know something about the overall plot we don't... just looking for some insight.

[TAGLINE]

Was I the one that said Charlie was important to the story? I'd like insight on how he's that relevant.

[kopernikuz]

Was I the one that said Charlie was important to the story? I'd like insight on how he's that relevant.
You said he was NOT relevant to the overall plot, and we'd just like to know how you know this... since the overall plot is pretty much very much in question still... unless you know something we don't, hence the questions.

[TAGLINE]

Actually, the question came up with this:

In terms of storyline Charlie does not need to die, he a major part of the story and the island and always has been.


So then I asked how he's a major part of the story...which hasn't been answered.

In terms of the overall plot...anyone that watches the show should pretty much know what the "plot" of the show is...and that it seems to revolve around Jack, Locke, Kate, Sawyer, Claire (for her child), Hurley, Desmond...

[kopernikuz]

His episodes are always self contained and pretty useless to the overall plot.
Regardless of what she said before, this is the statement that sparked Blizz's question about the "overall plot" and my subsequent questions, to which you responded "are you seriously asking", which I would say... sure... how do you know they are unrelated to the overall plot since we're still figuring it out? I just wonder what insight you have into the overall plot, other than your opinion... unless this too as you're pointing out his "needing to die" it is just opinion, which is cool too... but it sounded like a statement of fact... "useless to the overall plot"... when the plot is still a mystery, that's a tough statement to back up. With all thats up in the air on this show... he could feasibly be a key revealed at some point... who knows really? You just seemed very sure.

[TAGLINE]

Regardless of what she said before

Actually, that's exactly what this was about.

I just wonder what insight you have into the overall plot,

About as insightful as someone saying he is important...

when the plot is still a mystery

Hardly. What connection do these people (listed to earlier) have to the island and how do they get off. The show is about the discovery of that importance...and Charlie's connection seems none existent...so much that he's supposed to already be dead.

His purpose was much clearer in the first season...his kidnapping and murder of Ethan was relevant, but he is now just there. The writers have no where to go with him, and its obvious with his episodes being about his drug problems.

he could feasibly be a key revealed at some point... who knows really? You just seemed very sure.

He's supposed to have died already. The most important contribution Charlie seems to have is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pCnfbiQBfI

And having met the writers/producers, I kinda got the feeling that they weren't enthusiastic about Charlie anymore.

[kopernikuz]

Actually, that's exactly what this was about.
How can you say that? She asked her question based on your statement, period. You were led to say it because of what she said... but that's beside the point. The point is... how are you so sure of the "overall plot".

Obviously we know the show is about what you've said but since the way they get off, why they're connected, and everything you just said could be tied to Charlie at any time, I just don't get where he's useless, except that it's your opinion... characters gain new insight every few episodes. I'm still reeling about some of them... and now that Desmond and Charlie are linked through Desmond's bizarre Groundhog Day experience, perhaps there's more to this hobbit than we thought, lol.

Don't get me wrong... I have no idea where they're going... but at least I can admit that, lol. Charlie could die in the next episode... he could end up saving the whole day at the end, I just don't know... my point is it just isn't clear that I can see, and simply wanted you to explain why you seem so sure it is clear...

Maybe the whole thing is just an elaborate music video for his band... one of those with a whole story behind it and soon the rest of the guys will jump out from behind some trees and they'll sing, fade to black... lol.

[Blizzard]

Maybe the whole thing is just an elaborate music video for his band... one of those with a whole story behind it and soon the rest of the guys will jump out from behind some trees and they'll sing, fade to black... lol.
LMAO!! :rofl:

[DblDwn]

If Charlie is supposed to be dead then Charlie would be dead. I really don't see the writers creating this mystique around Desmond as Mr. Fortune Teller Man and having him save Charlie twice. Most of us, if not all of us, watching the last episode put 2 and 2 together and got 5 in that we assumed it was Claire that Desmond was saving from the lightning and the drowning. The shock value that the show likes to put forth was done perfectly in that we were lead to believe he was saving Claire and then we find that he was, in fact, saving Charlie. If they kill Charlie off now then it is extremely anti-climatic, because now we expect it to happen, which is the furthest thing from common to this show.

Plus Dominick is still engaged to Evangeline and he's not going to want to leave the show when they are both on it together and living happily in Hawaii. That of course being from the standpoint of the hobbit wanting to leave the show ala Maggie Grace and her horrid career decision a couple years back.

We could say that Charlie has not had much to do as of late but neither have many of the other "main" characters. The show revolves around Jack, Kate and Sawyer. Everyone else (Locke, Sayid, Sun, Jin, Hurley, Claire, Charlie, etc) are secondary to the big three. Just because he hasn't had much to do doesn't mean that he is being set up for death.

[Justin]

That's all opinion. In terms of storyline Charlie does not need to die, he a major part of the story and the island and always has been.

Unlike the Tailies, who we found were quite expendable.
You do know that the dude playing Mr. Eko wanted to die, right? He told the writers, studio executives, etc, that he wanted off the show.

The writers clearly had bigger plans for him (and they mention that in the recent Entertainment Weekly article) but they aquiesced to the guy's demands. It's kind of a shame for the sake of the story, but apparently he wasn't very nice around the set, and he seems kind of arrogant.

[TAGLINE]

Don't get me wrong... I have no idea where they're going... but at least I can admit that, lol. Charlie could die in the next episode... he could end up saving the whole day at the end, I just don't know... my point is it just isn't clear that I can see, and simply wanted you to explain why you seem so sure it is clear...

The thing is that if you have been following the show from day 1 you can see that Charlie has dropped off the Writers' focus. That's how clear it is. Watch him in season 1, he's pretty much a co-lead with Jack and Kate...then he slides back into obscurity and Hurley and at times Sawyer take his spot. Now they have set him up to die...its clear he's going to go out in some way, and I am betting the key is that Desmond has a role to play in it, throwing us all for a loop.

If Charlie is supposed to be dead then Charlie would be dead. I really don't see the writers creating this mystique around Desmond as Mr. Fortune Teller Man and having him save Charlie twice. Most of us, if not all of us, watching the last episode put 2 and 2 together and got 5 in that we assumed it was Claire that Desmond was saving from the lightning and the drowning. The shock value that the show likes to put forth was done perfectly in that we were lead to believe he was saving Claire and then we find that he was, in fact, saving Charlie. If they kill Charlie off now then it is extremely anti-climatic, because now we expect it to happen, which is the furthest thing from common to this show.

Except that its revealed when someone will die usually. IN the first season most people I knew had the person to die pegged as Boone. And he was. After an episode where he hallucinated dying.

As of now, if Desmond can't save Charlie...he's going to die. That's what they set in motion right now.

Plus Dominick is still engaged to Evangeline and he's not going to want to leave the show when they are both on it together and living happily in Hawaii. That of course being from the standpoint of the hobbit wanting to leave the show ala Maggie Grace and her horrid career decision a couple years back.

Except, in terms of television, they can kill off a character at any moment. Think of when they killed Cynthia Watros and Michelle Rodriguiez last year, and got rid of Harold Perrineau...they served their purpose at that point and were done.

We could say that Charlie has not had much to do as of late but neither have many of the other "main" characters. The show revolves around Jack, Kate and Sawyer. Everyone else (Locke, Sayid, Sun, Jin, Hurley, Claire, Charlie, etc) are secondary to the big three. Just because he hasn't had much to do doesn't mean that he is being set up for death.In the early stages of the show, Charlie was the go-to guy to help out Jack and Kate. Since then Hurley has taken over that role...and his connection to the numbers and the island is more direct than most. Sun is pregnant mysteriously right now, Claire's child has a mystery surrounding it, Sayid apparently has episodes coming that will show his importance. Charlie just seems to have the least amount to do and the one the writers just do not care about. And his popularity with the fans has gone down, his episodes seem to rate the lowest according to TV.com.

Locke hasn't had anything to do? did you see his first episode this season? It was ALL Locke.

Given the set up at the beginning of the season, the Jack/Kate/Sawyer thing was a miniseason of sorts, so the other castaways will get their due.

[DblDwn]

Except, in terms of television, they can kill off a character at any moment.

Quite true but I was speaking in terms of the actor making the decision to leave the show ala Maggie Grace.

Think of when they killed Cynthia Watros and Michelle Rodriguiez last year

Let's be honest here. It is clearly obvious that, regardless of how the executives try to spin it, these two were killed off because of the negative publicity the actress' got after they both received separate DUI's at almost the exact same moment.

and got rid of Harold Perrineau

I'm still under the impression that we haven't seen the last of Michael and Walt.

Sun is pregnant mysteriously right now, Claire's child has a mystery surrounding it

What mystery? It's pretty apparent, until we are told otherwise, that she got knocked up by the guy she had the affair with.

Locke hasn't had anything to do? did you see his first episode this season? It was ALL Locke.

I didn't say that the other characters had nothing to do. I said that they are all secondary to Jack, Kate and Sawyer who are the big three.

[kopernikuz]

Except, in terms of television, they can kill off a character at any moment. Think of when they killed Cynthia Watros and Michelle Rodriguiez last year, and got rid of Harold Perrineau...they served their purpose at that point and were done.
Except that they didn't get rid of Harold Perrineau, they've already stated that Walt and Michael will be back next season as they reveal what has happened to them... the writer's focus changes constantly, and it's just not really as easy to predict as you seem to insist.

I saw Boone's death coming a mile away too... and until they entered the forest I had not predicted his sister's... I suppose your precog abilities did however, lol... I just think you're oversimplifying the writer's motives, particularly since they've done some pretty outrageous turns in every season.

Again, I'm not arguing Charlie won't die... I'm simply saying your reasoning for being so sure is not entirely sound considering the makeup of the show.

[TAGLINE]

Quite true but I was speaking in terms of the actor making the decision to leave the show ala Maggie Grace.

She wanted to stay actually. She wanted more money, and they kicked her off because she was a diva. The way you know its true is that if you ask the producers about it...they shut up and are uncomfortable...and have no comment.

Let's be honest here. It is clearly obvious that, regardless of how the executives try to spin it, these two were killed off because of the negative publicity the actress' got after they both received separate DUI's at almost the exact same moment.

True, except that Ana Lucia was planned to die after one season. Rodriguez is a rising movie star. she doesn't want to stay on a TV show longer than she needs to. This was a career move, and she wanted to just be on for one season.

I'm still under the impression that we haven't seen the last of Michael and Walt.

Yeah, but the way that PErrineau has been jerked around for months...disappearing for a large chunk of season 2 and he's no longer a regular on the show....the writers have had enough of him.

What mystery? It's pretty apparent, until we are told otherwise, that she got knocked up by the guy she had the affair with.

what mystery? um...she couldn't have children before the island....so if it was the other guy, we have to know how she got cured BEFORE the island...

I didn't say that the other characters had nothing to do. I said that they are all secondary to Jack, Kate and Sawyer who are the big three.

Well yeah...but for this season that has made sense. Given the previews for the next 14 episodes show it being pretty ensemble-ish.

[TAGLINE]

Except that they didn't get rid of Harold Perrineau, they've already stated that Walt and Michael will be back next season as they reveal what has happened to them... the writer's focus changes constantly, and it's just not really as easy to predict as you seem to insist.

Yeah...they got rid of Walt and Michael...if they wanted to keep them around they would have. Its easy to see that given how he was gone for a huge chunk of season 2 and booted from the opening credits...they are tired of Michael. They are going to wrap up his story for sure, but I forsee it being much like how Mia Maestro was wrapped up on Alias...she woke up and then died.

I saw Boone's death coming a mile away too... and until they entered the forest I had not predicted his sister's... I suppose your precog abilities did however, lol... I just think you're oversimplifying the writer's motives, particularly since they've done some pretty outrageous turns in every season.

Actually I did. They announced someone would die in the season, and given what happened to Grace, it was assured she would die. So when the episode was revealed as a Shannon-centered episode...yeah it was more obvious she was die than anyone else.

Again, I'm not arguing Charlie won't die... I'm simply saying your reasoning for being so sure is not entirely sound considering the makeup of the show.

And my reasoning is apparently not disproven either...

[kopernikuz]

Yeah...they got rid of Walt and Michael...if they wanted to keep them around they would have.
Maybe you didn't read my whole sentence... they're coming back... they're not gone for good, simply not pertinent to the events at hand. This is directly from the producer's mouth. Certainly better than a hunch based on what you'd like to see happen to a character you've grown tired of ;) I think they certainly have set it up last episode for him to die, no doubt... but I am not going to assume anything, simply because they constantly turn formula on its ear. A prediction that he will die, could be precisely why he won't... because they like to throw loops at us. I'm not arguing with you... just reserving my own judgement of Charlie's fate until we see just what's going to happen.

[TAGLINE]

Maybe you didn't read my whole sentence... they're coming back... they're not gone for good, simply not pertinent to the events at hand. This is directly from the producer's mouth. Certainly better than a hunch based on what you'd like to see happen to a character you've grown tired of ;)

Read the whole paragraph. I know they coming back, but if you think they are coming back for good...that's not apparent. They will be back to wrap up the storyline. But the writers haven't really touched on the story for a number of reasons, one being Walt is too old.

And seriously, the condescension is growing tiring. I have met Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse...more than what is said on the internet (which they have known to leak a false story about the show). But these guys kill negative characters all the time, or boot them.

Michael was getting ALOT of negative reviews from people. He's now gone.
Shannon was perceived as negative, and when she wanted more money they fired her
Ana Lucia got a HUGE vibe from fans. while it was planned she would leave, they didn't even wait til the last episode.

These guys listen to fans. Its a network show anyway.

[kopernikuz]

Well, this fan wonders why they've managed to kill off or push out all the black characters. Personally Michael and Walt were some of my favorites... Eko wanted to leave, and was apparently a jerk about it...

I think Harold Perrineau is awesome, his work on OZ was brilliant... heck everyone on that show was brilliant though. I don't spend a lot of time on Lost message boards (read... none, lol) but I didn't have a problem with Michael and Walt at all. But I shed no tears when Shannon died or Ana Lucia for that matter.

[Blizzard]

You do know that the dude playing Mr. Eko wanted to die, right? He told the writers, studio executives, etc, that he wanted off the show.

The writers clearly had bigger plans for him (and they mention that in the recent Entertainment Weekly article) but they aquiesced to the guy's demands. It's kind of a shame for the sake of the story, but apparently he wasn't very nice around the set, and he seems kind of arrogant.
And drunk driving gets you shot.

[DblDwn]

She wanted to stay actually. She wanted more money, and they kicked her off because she was a diva.

I heard it was because she had gotten the role in The Fog and, because of that, she became a diva and didn't want to hold up her imminent movie career by continuing on television. Either way her head got too big for her shoulders.

Rodriguez is a rising movie star. she doesn't want to stay on a TV show longer than she needs to. This was a career move, and she wanted to just be on for one season.

What parallel universe are you visiting? Michelle Rodriquez is far from a rising movie star. She was a rising movie star after that boxing movie she did but then she was useless in The Fast and The Furious, pathetic in SWAT and just to show you how far from rising she is I can't even think of anything else noteworthy that she has been in. She needed Lost as a way to get a paycheck and get some recognition for future film roles but, like I said, drinking and driving has its penalties.

Yeah, but the way that PErrineau has been jerked around for months...disappearing for a large chunk of season 2 and he's no longer a regular on the show....the writers have had enough of him.

The story goes how the story goes. Part of the first season cliffhanger was Walt being taken by the Others. Michael disappearing to look for him in the second season was part of his story. He had to have been gone long enough within the context of the story in order for the Others to manipulate him to turn against his fellow castaways in order to free Walt. His betrayal of Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley in the second season finale was key to the current status of the storyline with Jack, Kate and Sawyer being captives of the Others. It was necessary in the story for Michael and Walt to leave the island because that was the deal that Ben and the Others had made with Michael regarding his leading the other 4 to them.

It's like on Prison Break. Someone like Haywire, up until his death two weeks ago, was only in periodic episodes because his character wasn't key to the main aspects of the story regarding the main characters.

what mystery? um...she couldn't have children before the island....so if it was the other guy, we have to know how she got cured BEFORE the island...

Dude you're killing me. I respect your opinion because you do at least make an effort to sound knowledgable when you type but, in this case, you're too far in the forest to see the trees. The episode where we found out that Sun was infertile do you not remember the end when she bumped into the fertility doctor on the street and he apologized to her for making a mistake. She isn't the one that is infertile, Jin is. She never told him because she was planning on leaving him anyway once they got to LA. So when she told him she was pregnant of course he thinks it is a miracle because he still thinks that the problem is with her and not with himself. That said, in true Lost fashion, since Jin is the infertile one the baby is obviously the guy who she had an affair with that jumped off the balcony and killed himself after Jin let him off with a "get outta Dodge" card.

To be honest, I am very disappointed that you missed that plot point because you portray yourself as so knowledgable about the show.

I have met Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse

You keep reminding us of that as if we are supposed to be impressed. For starters, and I'm not saying that you haven't met them, but none of us really have any reason to believe that you have. I could say that I have met George Lucas and have insight into the TV show but I have no way of proving that to anyone (I haven't). But I could say I have as a way of somehow attempting to overvalidate my opinion over someone else's.

[DblDwn]

And drunk driving gets you shot.

Thank you :)

[DblDwn]

Good episode last night.

More and more Tom seems to be warming up to Jack. Interesting to see if he does end up helping the good doctor.

But it is very interesting to see that, by no fault of his own really, Jack is slowly becoming an Other. He's getting more and more sympathetic yet he doesn't want to admit it.

[TAGLINE]

Bai Ling is bad casting on the Producer's part. What a dumb character.

Flashback wasn't bad...if puzzling...but the episode itself left ALOT to be desired.

Did I mention that Bai Ling is not good casting?

[JackBauer24]

Good episode last night.

More and more Tom seems to be warming up to Jack. Interesting to see if he does end up helping the good doctor.

But it is very interesting to see that, by no fault of his own really, Jack is slowly becoming an Other. He's getting more and more sympathetic yet he doesn't want to admit it.

I think you're right...more so, I think he's going to become a leader of the others. I think that's what that whole bit with his tatoos was leading to...that's he's going to be a leader despite being an outsider.

[DblDwn]

I agree.

Now if Jack fully becomes an Other does he then lead them against the 815 survivors that he once lead or does he work to find a mutual co-existence between the two sects?

The story is really, really starting to get interesting right now because it is possibly about to take turns that none of us saw coming.

[P-Ray]

What were the 3 revealed mystery plotlines that were advertised?

One was the Flight attendant observing. What were the other 2?

[DblDwn]

I would imagine one of them was the meaning of Jack's tattoo. As to the final mystery I'm not so sure. A mystery to some, i.e. the producer's interpretation of what the viewer's may be stuck on, may be different from what some viewer's had already figured out on our own.

Ooh, Kate is still hung up on Jack. Shocking. News at 11.

[P-Ray]

Thanx!

Would someone mind explaining to me the tattoo thing. I know he got it because of his personality, but why was he beat up. Honestly, I'm a little confused with that.

[kopernikuz]

Perhaps Jack getting to go to the Other's real camp was a third, or the situation with Juliet? I dunno...

[P-Ray]

Perhaps Jack getting to go to the Other's real camp was a third, or the situation with Juliet? I dunno...
I actually thought they were finally going to reveal something from the past. There are so many quetions.

Such as why has Locke and Rose been healed of their ailments but Ben had a tumor on his spine.

Plus, I really want to know how Jack's dad had been running around at one time.

[DblDwn]

Plus, I really want to know how Jack's dad had been running around at one time.

I would say that it was the "monster" taking the shape of Jack's father like when it appeared to Eko as his brother.

[DblDwn]

Would someone mind explaining to me the tattoo thing. I know he got it because of his personality, but why was he beat up. Honestly, I'm a little confused with that.

The tattoo, as we are told at the end, says "He is among us, but he is not one of us." To which Jack replies that that is what it says but not what it means. So we'll have to wait a bit longer to get the 411 on the specifics there. As to why he was beaten on the beach I would imagine that it was looked upon as a disgrace in Thai culture for an outsider to be branded with Bai Ling's "gift." Or something along those lines. She warned him that he was not to be tattooed but he didn't care. That is the reason why he was beaten.

[P-Ray]

The tattoo, as we are told at the end, says "He is among us, but he is not one of us." To which Jack replies that that is what it says but not what it means. So we'll have to wait a bit longer to get the 411 on the specifics there. As to why he was beaten on the beach I would imagine that it was looked upon as a disgrace in Thai culture for an outsider to be branded with Bai Ling's "gift." Or something along those lines. She warned him that he was not to be tattooed but he didn't care. That is the reason why he was beaten.
Thanx! That helps.:)

[P-Ray]

I would say that it was the "monster" taking the shape of Jack's father like when it appeared to Eko as his brother.
Ah...very good! Didn't think of that.

[TAGLINE]

We don't know what the "monster" is besides the smoke. Its not sure if it takes shape...or if that is just a paranormal occurance on the Island. Try when the Island killed fake Shannon in season 1. Its not sure if the Monster comes as a result, or that the Monsteris just a different entity entirely.

[Justin]

I thought everything in the main body of the episode was great, but the flashback was pointless. I'm glad the love tirangle is still up in the air.

I'm a little confused as to the "mark" they gave Juliet; was it just a painful punishment or is there some other meaning?

I really liked the way they closed the episode, with the music and camerawork, etc.

[DblDwn]

Great episode this week. I loved Sawyer having a beer with "Skeletor" and then his teaching Jin the only three things that a guy needs to say to a woman.

[Blizzard]

Yes, finally some great comedy and a great Hurley story!

Momma has needs! LMAO!!

[kopernikuz]

While I was itching for more revelations, it was an awesome break in the mood to have some fun again.

Was it just me, or were you REALLY wanting to see Hurley drive that van up the beach at the end there and past all the doubters, lol.

[P-Ray]

While I was itching for more revelations, it was an awesome break in the mood to have some fun again.

Was it just me, or were you REALLY wanting to see Hurley drive that van up the beach at the end there and past all the doubters, lol.
Very true!

And that would have been awesome!

[nefertiti]

TV Guides weekly Lost scoop...

SPOILERS...(as the body count rises.....:( )

http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx



edit...be sure to read through to the end of Ausiello's report...

[DblDwn]

Good episode. I can't figure out, based on the link above, what Sawyer's funniest line ever was supposed to have been. The Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon line was pretty good but he has had much better material in the past.

Too bad the C4 went off and blew up the place. They wasted all that meat that was in the freezer.

[Master Cephus]

Locke is becoming the proverbial screw up :)

So who thinks that Sayid really tortured that lady or did what she did and finally just confessed so she could have closure?

[DblDwn]

He seemed genuinely broken up when he confessed. Whether that was an act or not remains to be seen. I would imagine that it was a genuine confession though.

[Blizzard]

Oh course he really tortured her. I was quite strange and emotional watching a torturer being tortured, wondering when he would break. Especially a character we are already close to.

John is smart, then stupid, then smart, then stupid... in other words, just your average guy. ;)

I didn't like this one. Hurley conning Sawyer? Sayid being tortured? A random Dharma house being blown up? A cat? Was any of it really necessary in the grand scheme?

And in the spoiler links it said Sawyer was going to have one of the funniest lines ever and that we'd know it when we heard it. The only funny thing I heard him say was to the random, blonde beach chick, "And who are you anyway?!"

[DblDwn]

The "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" comment to Sun and Jin was pretty good but a far cry from his best material ever.

[TAGLINE]

I think the salad line was great.

[nefertiti]

ABC's put out a video with bits from next weeks episode...

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index

[Justin]

The last episode was great, as usual. I really don't understand all the people complaining how this show isn't as good as it used to be, I think it is just as awesome as it's always been.

[DblDwn]

I couldn't agree more.

[Blizzard]

Fanboys! :P

[TAGLINE]

Season 1 is pretty much perfection. I think that without the direct involvement of Abrams, the show has been trying to pack on too much. When Abrams is involved like say with Alias in the first 2 seasons before he decided to go off and make Lost, the show was ON FIRE. Some of the BEST episode of TV and Jennifer Garner delivering some of the best work of a TV Actress. Then Season 3 was a drop off because it got bogged down, and season 4 was pretty throwaway until the final few episodes which were KILLER. Then seaosn 5 tried to start something, but they killed it, so the tying up the loose ends was a combination of sad and AWESOME, because the climactic final confrontation is just out of this world good.

Lost seems to have fallen victim to the same curse...Abrams left after seaosn 1 and went off to make M:I 3, and now Star Trek...he doesn't get involved and make the show gell. It sucks. Oh well, I still love the show and I will never leave it.

[DblDwn]

The thing that people seem to have with Lost is the lack of answers regarding the questions that the show raises. But the same people that complain day and night about the fact that the show presents more questions than it answers these days are the same people, at least to me, that seem to have forgotten that the very questions they are seeking the answers to are the very questions that can only be answered during the final season/episodes of the show. The writers throw us a grape every once in a while and that is fine for me. I like trying to figure out what will happen next and I really enjoy that the writers hold true to their intentions with the story and don't alter it from the perspective of giving us more than they care to because the media wants to portray the show is faltering in the ratings because people are frustrated with the lack of revelations.

It's still one of the best shows on TV.

[Justin]

Plus, Lost isn't about the overall story arc, or what the Island is all about, it's about how these characters are dealing with the unusual circumstances they find themselves in.

[P-Ray]

Yeah, and I thought last weeks ep. was very good!

[JackBauer24]

Plus, Lost isn't about the overall story arc, or what the Island is all about, it's about how these characters are dealing with the unusual circumstances they find themselves in.

I agree, it's about how the characters deal....
Which, ironically enough, is by not asking questions about their situation so that they can learn how they're supposed to deal. ;)

[P-Ray]

I don't get why the characters don't ask more questions to the people on the Island during their situations.

I know it's just a show, but for example, don't you think that while Jack was in custody, he would be asking a ton of questions.

[DblDwn]

What's the point? He knows they aren't going to be answered.

And let's talk about how hardcore the Other chick was when he demanded One-Eyed Willy kill her. Anyone want to speculate as to why she had no problem with Eyepatch being captured but was willing to die before allowing herself to be held captive?

[Blizzard]

Yeah, I don't get that.

[nefertiti]

Good point! I forgot about it in all the other excitement...

[P-Ray]

What's the point? He knows they aren't going to be answered.

He wouldn't know what they are willing to reveal to him unless he asks.

Why not? He's got nuthin' to lose.

[TAGLINE]

Anyone want to speculate as to why she had no problem with Eyepatch being captured but was willing to die before allowing herself to be held captive?

Eye Patch was going to off himself right after that. He pointed the guy at his head. The plan was that both would die.

[Blizzard]

In the previews it looks like he succeeds.

[DblDwn]

Was it so that they could not be forced to reveal where the "community" was? Keep in mind that Eyepatch killed the chick before Sayid revealed that they had a map.

By the way, excellent point that he had attempted to kill himself after shooting her. I had forgotten that.

[nefertiti]

Another good show! Damn, this thing is heating up... Gotta say, Desmond is giving me the creeps. Is Kate a b*llys woman or what? She shimmied up that tree limb like a trooper! Locke is loosing credabilty with the gang ...again.... Next week looks like a tough one...

[JackBauer24]

It's actually kinda nice to see Locke in this position again...it's some great echoes of the first season when he got so obsessed with getting into the hatch.

[nefertiti]

I agree... The Slav almost put his secret out there... I think only Kate got the ? on her face as he was describing what he knew about them...

Jack's got to be playing the "Other" game.... but I felt bad for Kate..superhero and all off to save her man, who doesn't seem to need saving....

[Blizzard]

Loved seeing Jack and Tom having a gay ol' time. I LOVE with the show ends with a great shocker.

[JackBauer24]

I didn't know Jack was gay!

[nefertiti]

That's the rumor.....either Sawyer or Jack....we sorta got some of Sawyers action...so Jack kinda fits....

[JackBauer24]

Wow. I'd have put my money on Paolo.

[Blizzard]

:bop:

Damn kids.

[DblDwn]

My DVR folded last night and didn't record so I missed the episode. Anyone care to give me a recap? Thanks in advance.

[TAGLINE]

It's actually kinda nice to see Locke in this position again...it's some great echoes of the first season when he got so obsessed with getting into the hatch.

Yep...now he wants that sub.

Does anyone think he's gonna blow that thing up too? I mean this is the place where he can walk...why not prevent people from getting him off the island?

[nefertiti]

I think you can see excerpts from the show and a run down of last nights events...free... (SPOILERS - it also gives a rundown of next weeks episode)

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index

[Darth Relentless]

Damn you Americans being an episode ahead of us.

[Justin]

Doesn't anyone else find it a bit CONVENIENT that Claire's father JUST HAPPENS TO BE Jack's father too?? :rolleyes:

Just kidding. I totally called it back in that episode where they showed what Jack's Dad was doing in Australia, when he was banging on that door going "I have a right to see my daughter!!"

The question now is when and how Jack and Claire figure it out. Good thing Jack wasn't ever macking on her. Although that would have been hilarious.

[JediJaina]

Doesn't anyone else find it a bit CONVENIENT that Claire's father JUST HAPPENS TO BE Jack's father too?? :rolleyes:

Just kidding. I totally called it back in that episode where they showed what Jack's Dad was doing in Australia, when he was banging on that door going "I have a right to see my daughter!!"

The question now is when and how Jack and Claire figure it out. Good thing Jack wasn't ever macking on her. Although that would have been hilarious.


I wouldn't be surprised if they planned it from the beginning. It just seemed a bit funny that Jack's dad took *regular* trips to Australia.

Yeah anyone surprised by that needs to go back and watch that Ana-Lucia flashback episode.

[TAGLINE]

I am pretty sure the OTHERS are going to reveal the truth about Jack and Claire sometime down the road. I mean, they know EVERYTHING about EVERYONE.

The death of Eye patch is the coolest death of an Other since Charlie unloaded on Ethan.

[P-Ray]

I'm dying to know how and why Jack's all warm and friendly with The Others.

[DblDwn]

I'm telling ya, Jack is going to end up leading the Others.

[P-Ray]

I'm telling ya, Jack is going to end up leading the Others.
Yeah and that's why he seems to have been captured to join the ranks.

[nefertiti]

Weekly TV Guide ...interviews Terry O'Quinn
SPOILERS.....

http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting={67176138-FEC7-40AA-818B-09DC1F95A44A}

[DblDwn]

Not shocking at all that the "Man from Tallahassee" was Locke's father. All I've got to say is, is this show getting good or is this show getting good.

[Master Cephus]

I have the same feeling for it as I do BSG...I don't love the show anymore, I just really want to know what happens...

I just can't for the life of me understand Locke's character...why would he want to blow up the sub?

[DblDwn]

Because, on the island, he can walk. He can be who he wants to be. If he leaves the island then he is afraid that his handicap would return and he would be confined to the wheelchair again. Plus, he would have to go back to a life that he hates. He hated the wheelchair. He hated his patronizing boss at the box company. He knows that he is capable of more. On the island, he can achieve that. On the island he is a hunter. He is one with nature. He understands the island and, for that, he believes that the island has rewarded him with the ability to walk again. Remember the first season, when he was at work talking about how excited he was to go on the Outback excursion? Now he is living his own variation of the Outback excursion that he wasn't allowed to go on before because of his disability.

With the sub there was a chance of rescue. A chance to communicate with the real world and bring a rescue. He doesn't want that. He wants to stay on the island because, there, he can live the life that he wants. He can be someone that he cannot in the real world. If a rescue came then they would take everyone back. He couldn't say that he wants to stay and then expect them to allow him to. He would be treated as having gone mad for wanting to stay and probably undergo extensive mental evaluations because of it.

He destroyed the sub to maintain his livelihood. To maintain his happiness. Because he is the only one of the 875 survivors that is truly happy and at peace on the island. He did it for his own selfish reasons but, to him, it had to be done.

By the way, this episode showed a humorously sarcastic side of Ben that I enjoyed. I loved the exchange between he and Locke:

Locke: "Man from Tallahassee? What's that? Some kind of code?"

Ben: "No John I'm sorry. We don't have a code for there's a man in the closet with a gun to my daughter's head. Although, apparently we should."

That's great stuff.

[P-Ray]

Wow...what an episode and what an ending!

[Justin]

I liked the line about the two giant hamsters in the secret lair.

Anyway this episode was amazing, and I've said that every week for the last 5 weeks, and each episode has been better than the last. I can't wait to see what happens next wednesday.

Also, I think Locke's motivation was more than just selfish, I think he also doesn't want anyone else to be able to reach the island because of what would happen if someone exploited its power, or something like that.

[P-Ray]

I loved that they covered the fact that Locke could now walk but Ben still had his tumor but yet lived there.

I was really questioning that and wondering when they would even bring it up on the show.

[Ripley]

Well I'm just about done with the second season DVDs. I have to agree with what Justin said a few pages back about people not liking the show anymore. I'd have to say season two so far has been way better than season one.

[Oscar the Grouch]

I loved that they covered the fact that Locke could now walk but Ben still had his tumor but yet lived there.

I was really questioning that and wondering when they would even bring it up on the show.

Maybe the effect of the island is like steroids, where short term use (Locke) can patch you up quickly but long term use (Linus) will mess you up.

Maybe.

[nefertiti]

A couple of Ausiello hints.....

Question: Last week's Lost (http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/lost/100272) was amazing. Any scoop on what's coming next?— Haz

Ausiello: OK, can we just talk about the genius that was Terry O'Quinn's performance in those hospital scenes? The look on Locke's face when he was being lowered into the wheelchair for the first time was beyond heartbreaking. And regarding that humdinger of an ending, WTF!? I'm dying to see where Darlton (that's Damon and Carlton) go with that. Unfortunately we won't find out tonight, since Locke's reunion with Pops is only "obliquely referred to," according to Michael Emerson. (For more from Emerson, check out today's scoopy Q&A (http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7b3FABEB36-04AC-453D-9AA8-AEAEC9E4E5C6%7d)!)

Question: No Lost scoop last week? This is a disgrace. You better make up for this horrible crime with extra scoop this time!— Brian

Ausiello: I'm hearing something about a season-ending showdown between the 815ers and the Others. And there are at least three more deaths, including the one tonight.

[TAGLINE]

So I pretty much know who dies tonight.

[Justin]

Hmm. I guess now we know for a fact that Nikki and Paolo really WERE useless characters.

Don't get me wrong, I thought the episode was entertaining, but I figured we were going to find out they had some special link to what was going on. Oh well.

This episode was cool the way it recreated different times throughout the show and showed you things that were going on that we didn't see before, and it was cool that they brought back certain characters who are dead (but no Libby??). It reminded me of Back to the Future Part II.

I am a little sad that they are gone now though because it seemed like they might be interesting characters, not to mention Nikki was smoking hot.

Also, I thought having them be buried alive was a little too much.

[TAGLINE]

Best...episode....of the season.

Wow, just wow.

[DblDwn]

That was pretty intense watching them be buried alive. But, after all, they were killers so they got what they had coming to an extent.

I agree with Justin. I liked, for example, when they showed Paolo in the station hatch and then Ben and Juliet came in to discuss him getting Jack to do the operation. That was cool.

[Blizzard]

Yeah, it did fill in a few loop holes and answer a few questions... but all I can say is AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That show scared the bejebus out of me! In my opinion, LOST is back!

[DblDwn]

To me it never left.

[aymo87]

But, after all, they were killers so they got what they had coming to an extent.
Who on the island hasn't killed somebody? :blink: Other than Aaron.

[TAGLINE]

Who on the island hasn't killed somebody? :blink: Other than Aaron.

Hurley?

[kopernikuz]

Well, this is a longshot... but some have said perhaps the dog (who has been significant in odd ways) pulled the sheets off of them because he could tell they were still alive. There's some discussion involving the possibility he might dig one or both up enough to let them escape.

Not saying I'm on board with it... just it made for interesting discussion.

[nefertiti]

Now I know I watched. I did think in the first 3 minutes I was on the wrong channel...but no, it was Lost. Other than seeing the flashes from the past...it did nothing for me. I got the feeling the writers were Lost...about where they were going. Wednesday's show left me...Lost....

[Blizzard]

Who on the island hasn't killed somebody? :blink: Other than Aaron.

Hurley?
Hurley killed his grandpa and Tricia Tanaka. :wink: :innocent:

[TAGLINE]

Hurley killed his grandpa and Tricia Tanaka. :wink: :innocent:

The numbers are not Hurley.

[JackBauer24]

Hurley killed the people on that balcony...and that was before the numbers!

[Blizzard]

Yep, Hurley killed 23 people.

[Oscar the Grouch]

Locke hasn't killed anyone...yet. Boone doesn't count, that really wasn't his fault.

[TAGLINE]

Locke hasn't killed anyone...yet. Boone doesn't count, that really wasn't his fault.

So, throwing Eye Patch into the "fence" doesn't count?

[Oscar the Grouch]

:ohwell: Oh...yeah.

Forgot about that one.

[aymo87]

So, throwing Eye Patch into the "fence" doesn't count?

LMAO!!! :rofl:

well my friend and i were talking and it seems that everyone still on the island- so not including Boone, Shannon, Libby or Michael, has either killed someone directly, like Sawyer shot the shrimp guy or at least been partly to blame, like Claire and her mom.

(and i still blame Locke for Boone's death :mad:)



:scratchchin: btw if anyone's got a thing for Kate...and a thing for the gold bikini...I hate self promoting as much as the next person BUT i figured if anyone might enjoy them LOST fans would be them

right there --> http://www.galacticsenate.com/showthread.php?t=14545&page=4 (http://www.galacticsenate.com/showthread.php?t=14545&page=4)

[JackBauer24]

Spoilers: the rumored flashback order for the rest of the season:


The final flashback batting order is said to be:
3.15 Kate Austen
3.16 Juliet Burke
3.17 Desmond Hume
3.18 Jin & Sun Kwon
3.19 Jack Shephard
3.20 Karen & Gerald DeGroot
3.21 Charlie Pace
3.22-23 Benjamin Linus

[aymo87]

Spoilers: the rumored flashback order for the rest of the season:


The final flashback batting order is said to be:
3.15 Kate Austen
3.16 Juliet Burke
3.17 Desmond Hume
3.18 Jin & Sun Kwon
3.19 Jack Shephard
3.20 Karen & Gerald DeGroot
3.21 Charlie Pace
3.22-23 Benjamin Linus

I thought we were suppose to have one with Sawyer soon saying why he's has such a need to give everyone nick-names? And why why why do we need another Juliet flash back? *ew* (btw...did everyone else notice the lack of...um...creativity in coming up with last names that ABC has. The two doctors on Lost: Shephard & Burke...the two original attendings on Grey's Anatomy: Shepherd & Burke...:glare:..."seriously?" )

ok lastly....sorry I think I'm having a brain fart, but who are Karen & Gerald DeGroot? :blink:

[JackBauer24]

They're the people who created the Dharma Initiative.

[Oscar the Grouch]

Oooh, that should be a good one then. hopefully.

[DblDwn]

I like that the two hour season finale gives us a Ben flashback. That should answer a few questions while creating a few more in typical cliffhanger fashion.

It makes sense that we will have a Juliet flashback next week because, based on the preview, her induction into the "tribe" is the focal point of the episode.

Interesting that there was no follow up on Locke's reunion with papa but I imagine that it played heavily into his leaving with the Others. So it stands to reason that the reunion will be addressed in coming episodes.

[JackBauer24]

According to the producers, it'll still be a few more eps before we learn anything about his meeting with Papa Cooper. I think with the Others gone for the moment, we won't hear anything from Ben, Tom, Locke or the other uh...Others for a while.

[DblDwn]

True. I meant coming episodes as in future episodes that aren't necessarily in the next week or two. Based on the flashback schedule it may not even be until the season finale when we get the Ben flashbacks.

[TAGLINE]

Charlie is the second to last episode of the season

Given that there is going to be another "death"...

[DblDwn]

Interesting idea..........

[TAGLINE]

Interesting idea..........

I mean, look who had the second to last episode last year.

[P-Ray]

Good ep. this week.

I forgot to mention about last weeks ep. and those spiders. We have never seen or heard of them on the show before but they amazingly show up biting 2 people within seconds of each. Weird how no one's been bitten b4(except maybe off camera).

[TAGLINE]

Good ep. this week.

I forgot to mention about last weeks ep. and those spiders. We have never seen or heard of them on the show before but they amazingly show up biting 2 people within seconds of each. Weird how no one's been bitten b4(except maybe off camera).

Did you hear the Monster's noise though? Right before she was bit Nikki reacted the the Monster.

[Oscar the Grouch]

Did you hear the Monster's noise though? Right before she was bit Nikki reacted the the Monster.

I noticed that too. I didn't know if it had any significance or if the sound editors were just being lazy and recycling sound bytes.

[TAGLINE]

I noticed that too. I didn't know if it had any significance or if the sound editors were just being lazy and recycling sound bytes.

If its there, the significance is there too.

[P-Ray]

Did you hear the Monster's noise though? Right before she was bit Nikki reacted the the Monster.
Yeah, I actually forgot about that.

What significance do you think that has?

[TAGLINE]

Yeah, I actually forgot about that.

What significance do you think that has?

Well, it seems that forgiveness is something that both The monster and The Others seem to have little of, as Locke said to Kate. I think the Monster is in some ways enacting vengeance or karma on these people, and that since Locke himself had not done anything wrong at that point, and wasn't afraid, it didn't attack him in season one. Eko showed no fear the first time he saw the Monster, and it wasn't able to prey on him then, but when he was alone and frightened, it got him. I think that the Spiders were a direct message from the Monster. It gave them a fitting punishment.

[P-Ray]

Well, it seems that forgiveness is something that both The monster and The Others seem to have little of, as Locke said to Kate. I think the Monster is in some ways enacting vengeance or karma on these people, and that since Locke himself had not done anything wrong at that point, and wasn't afraid, it didn't attack him in season one. Eko showed no fear the first time he saw the Monster, and it wasn't able to prey on him then, but when he was alone and frightened, it got him. I think that the Spiders were a direct message from the Monster. It gave them a fitting punishment.
Gotcha! Makes sense, thanx!

[DblDwn]

I would disagree with that idea. Although it is a decent thought. I reason I disagree is that, through flashbacks, we saw that Nikki had befriended the high school science teacher that blew up last season and that he had one of the spiders, a female, in a jar. That would be the female spider in the har that she threw onto Paulo. But high school science teacher guy also told her that the female, once it bites I believe, releases an extreme amount of pharamones (sp?) which in turn attracts every male of the species in the vicinity. That is why all the male spiders came rushing into the area and bit Nikki. Because the female had been released and bitten Paulo which in turn released the pharamones (sp?) which attracted all the males.

Nothing to do with the monster at all.

[P-Ray]

I would disagree with that idea. Although it is a decent thought. I reason I disagree is that, through flashbacks, we saw that Nikki had befriended the high school science teacher that blew up last season and that he had one of the spiders, a female, in a jar. That would be the female spider in the har that she threw onto Paulo. But high school science teacher guy also told her that the female, once it bites I believe, releases an extreme amount of pharamones (sp?) which in turn attracts every male of the species in the vicinity. That is why all the male spiders came rushing into the area and bit Nikki. Because the female had been released and bitten Paulo which in turn released the pharamones (sp?) which attracted all the males.

I forgot about all that. It is amazing that we have never seen that spider b4:wink:

[TAGLINE]

I would disagree with that idea. Although it is a decent thought. I reason I disagree is that, through flashbacks, we saw that Nikki had befriended the high school science teacher that blew up last season and that he had one of the spiders, a female, in a jar. That would be the female spider in the har that she threw onto Paulo. But high school science teacher guy also told her that the female, once it bites I believe, releases an extreme amount of pharamones (sp?) which in turn attracts every male of the species in the vicinity. That is why all the male spiders came rushing into the area and bit Nikki. Because the female had been released and bitten Paulo which in turn released the pharamones (sp?) which attracted all the males.

Nothing to do with the monster at all.

Actually, they were attracted to Nikki because she smashed the spider on her hand. That said, right after that happened, ou hear the monster's sound and that cause Nikki to look around in fear, and then the Spider crawls up her leg.

However, it's important to note that there was a sound made. It was the monster's sound. So he had a point, and its reported on basically every site.

[nefertiti]

Ok...let me go out on a limb here... This weeks episode was super. I was disappointed in the one before...but this one had a lot going for it. And one thing jumped out at me.

Ok...the limb. Emp....you might remember this one (for sure)...Forbidden Planet.

Walter Pidgeon is Morphus alone on planet with daughter (I think it's always been compared to King Lear-ish). When other people come, Morphus's Id "activates" and kills the other people.

Everytime there is conflict between the characters, whether that is anger, frustration or down right beat the crap out of eachother...the island "monster" shows up.

This week Kate was really pissed at Juliette and suddenly the monster shows up. In the film FP, Morphus was not immune to his own Id's monster... It doesn't work for everyone and not completely, but it sure could fit the bill. Their own guilts taking on "monster" like form. And Juliette knows...because there is of course conflict within the Others as well.

Ok, did I just fall off the limb? Should I go back to the old medications?

[DblDwn]

Actually, they were attracted to Nikki because she smashed the spider on her hand.

They weren't attracted to Nikki. They were attracted to the pharamones put out by the female spider that was smashed on Nikki's hand. If we want to get specific that is.


That said, right after that happened, ou hear the monster's sound and that cause Nikki to look around in fear, and then the Spider crawls up her leg.

But the monster had nothing to do with the presence of the spiders in the first place. So, in turn, it had nothing to do with the end result.

However, it's important to note that there was a sound made. It was the monster's sound. So he had a point, and its reported on basically every site.

I never claimed that he didn't have a point. I even went so far as to call it a good point. It is just not significant to the end result.

[Ripley]

Finally finished the season two DVDs. I loved it even more than season one. I really want season three out on DVD so I can finally get caught up for season four.

[TAGLINE]

They weren't attracted to Nikki. They were attracted to the pharamones put out by the female spider that was smashed on Nikki's hand. If we want to get specific that is.

What would be what I said...they were attracted to Nikki's spider smashed hand.


But the monster had nothing to do with the presence of the spiders in the first place. So, in turn, it had nothing to do with the end result.

Except that they actually do. Take into account that the Spiders themselves are entirely fictional. They don't exist ANYWHERE else in the world. It is possible that they are a manifestation by the Monster, and there is a reason the sound was heard. They wouldn't throw the sound in if there was no reason for it. The monster and the spiders are connected.


I never claimed that he didn't have a point. I even went so far as to call it a good point. It is just not significant to the end result.

Except that it actually might, since the Monster has already been responsible for the deaths of two individuals on the island. It manifests itself in many different forms...and directly hurts people...is it really hard to believe that it could take the form of a spider?

[DblDwn]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with that one since high school science teacher guy knew what species the spider was in the flashback. There are many real life instances where a particular species of something is exclusive to only one remote location. The spider is no different. However the fact that high school science teacher guy knew of the species then that would mean that the spiders are not fictional in the sense of the show at least. Therefore there is no manifestation of the monster in this instance.

As I said before, it was a good thought though.

[TAGLINE]

Therefore there is no manifestation of the monster in this instance.

I think that the noise is clear enough to signify that the Monster had a part to play. If you don't want to believe it, fine, but the monster noise is made...then the spiders appear...I mean it has appeared in the form of a friggin bear already...

The point of Artz telling Nikki about the effects of the Spider was so the whole episode would make sense. But the monster played a part in their demise. It's clear.

[JackBauer24]

I know! Arzt was a manifestation of the monster! It's all so clear now!

[DblDwn]

I think that the noise is clear enough to signify that the Monster had a part to play. If you don't want to believe it, fine, but the monster noise is made...then the spiders appear...I mean it has appeared in the form of a friggin bear already...

The point of Artz telling Nikki about the effects of the Spider was so the whole episode would make sense. But the monster played a part in their demise. It's clear.

Agree to disagree then old friend.

[TAGLINE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaqbyekJHHs

I love the dramatic ending. But the case is made in that video.

[kopernikuz]

I couldn't get the smoke monster from that clip. I could see how if you amplified it and all that you might be able to hear it and maybe say it sounds kind of like that, but to me it just wasn't as obvious as you say. Just me I guess. When you said the sound was there, I was expecting the echoey gurgling horror that we usually hear... not some clicking that could just as easily be creepy spider noises, lol. I'm not saying it isn't... I'm simply saying I can't see the obviousness that you can.

[kopernikuz]

I mean it has appeared in the form of a friggin bear already...
So you don't think the bear escaped from what was the "zoo" there? I mean the cages were all designed for animals... not for Kate and Sawyer, lol.

[TAGLINE]

So you don't think the bear escaped from what was the "zoo" there? I mean the cages were all designed for animals... not for Kate and Sawyer, lol.

So...what, the bear escaped into the sweat lodge to John Locke?

[TAGLINE]

I was expecting the echoey gurgling horror that we usually hear... not some clicking that could just as easily be creepy spider noises, lol. I'm not saying it isn't... I'm simply saying I can't see the obviousness that you can.

Um...the clicking is the monster...that clip DOES make it obvious.

The clip is amplified. But this is what it actually sounded like in full.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAwpgY0G7_E

Nikki is CLEARLY reacting the noise.

[kopernikuz]

Yeah it sounds like scurrying, lol. Sorry, life will still go on if we don't agree, no? ;)

[kopernikuz]

So...what, the bear escaped into the sweat lodge to John Locke?
It's been a while since the bear incident, explain what you mean maybe I'm just thinking of something else... remember when Sawyer shot it?

[TAGLINE]

Yeah it sounds like scurrying, lol. Sorry, life will still go on if we don't agree, no? ;)

Well, its not. Its the same sound the monster makes when he's stalking someone, and its the clicking noise it makes.

You stated it was spider noises...since when did spiders scurry that loudly?

[JackBauer24]

Well, its not. Its the same sound the monster makes when he's stalking someone, and its the clicking noise it makes.

You stated it was spider noises...since when did spiders scurry that loudly?

Dude, can't you ever concede ANYTHING?

[kopernikuz]

Well, its not. Its the same sound the monster makes when he's stalking someone, and its the clicking noise it makes.

You stated it was spider noises...since when did spiders scurry that loudly?
When foley artists need to let you know something is coming, :P Not to mention there were several of them on bed of leaves in a quiet part of the jungle... I don't know... I'm simply not conceding that I agree it sounded like the monster... not disagreeing with your theory, just not hearing it the same way you are. To me, if they wanted me to think "monster" they'd have used the full sound, not barely audible scuffling.

[TAGLINE]

It's been a while since the bear incident, explain what you mean maybe I'm just thinking of something else... remember when Sawyer shot it?

At the beginning of the season, Further Instructions, when Locke returned from the Hatch, he built a lodge to "communicate with the Island" while doing it, a bear jumped at him while in the hut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zszj5g7SWQo

[TAGLINE]

Dude, can't you ever concede ANYTHING?

What should I concede?

[JackBauer24]

Kop was clearly trying to end the argument and you keep hammering in your point. You can't even concede that you and he disagree, and that's how you are in every discussion you post in around here. You make a point, then hammer it in until no one wants to bother arguing with you anymore.

[TAGLINE]

When foley artists need to let you know something is coming, :P Not to mention there were several of them on bed of leaves in a quiet part of the jungle... I don't know... I'm simply not conceding that I agree it sounded like the monster... not disagreeing with your theory, just not hearing it the same way you are. To me, if they wanted me to think "monster" they'd have used the full sound, not barely audible scuffling.


The monster has alot of different sounds. But when it is stalking someone, the clicking sound happens.

Spiders that small do not scurry that loudly, and wouldn't cause someone to look around the jungle in fear...they probably know what the clicking sound is. Even Paulo listens in fear.

[TAGLINE]

Kop was clearly trying to end the argument and you keep hammering in your point. You can't even concede that you and he disagree, and that's how you are in every discussion you post in around here. You make a point, then hammer it in until no one wants to bother arguing with you anymore.

...and?

[kopernikuz]

At the beginning of the season, Further Instructions, when Locke returned from the Hatch, he built a lodge to "communicate with the Island" while doing it, a bear jumped at him while in the hut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zszj5g7SWQo
Wait a minute... you're talking about his vision???? LOL... so a vision of a spectral bear that just scares the bejezus out of him during a revelation... and actual spiders who kill Nikki... are both manifestations of the monster.

Here I thought we were talking about a real bear manifested by the monster. It was a vision... not a manifestation. And it likely was fueled by the multiple instances of Polar Bear sightings in the show... and gee... the fact they actually killed one?

[TAGLINE]

Wait a minute... you're talking about his vision???? LOL... so a vision of a spectral bear that just scares the bejezus out of him during a revelation... and actual spiders who kill Nikki... are both manifestations of the monster.

Yes...cause the Monster has appeared as a black cloud, Shannon, Eko's brother...

And the spiders don't kill Nikki.

[kopernikuz]

And the spiders don't kill Nikki.
*pause for effect... then elaborate ;)*

Unless you mean burying them alive is what actually killed them... cause that's true... but it's as a direct result of the spider's biting her. This crazy island also has polar bears... and god knows what other creatures. But the polar bear killed by Sawyer was not the "monster", and obviously escaped from what used to be the "zoo" on the island where animals were being studied and whatnot. No reason the spiders are not there for the same or similar reasons or even native to the island. But regardless... that polar bear was there and was a real polar bear... not from Locke's vision two seasons later, and not a manifestation of the monster. So too could the spiders be actual spiders... crazy, but possible :P You know the boars they've been eating are real too. There are actually living creatures on the island that are not survivors, tailies, others, or smoke monsters.

[DblDwn]

So you don't think the bear escaped from what was the "zoo" there? I mean the cages were all designed for animals... not for Kate and Sawyer, lol.

That would be reasonable if those cages hadn't been on a different island.

Kop, I imagine you edited because you realized that the science teacher jarred the spider after the crash, on the island, and didn't just happen to be carrying it in his carry on bag aboard the plane?

[TAGLINE]

Unless you mean burying them alive is what actually killed them... cause that's true... but it's as a direct result of the spider's biting her.

Well, yes. But then, this idea of being "specific" was brought up a few post ago.

not from Locke's vision two seasons later, and not a manifestation of the monster.

The theory on the polar bear is not so much that there were animals on the Island (Dharma itself has a zoology sector that they were studying there) but if you remember the comic that Hurley brought to the island and that Walt read in season 1 featured...a polar bear. So there has ALWAYS , and I stress, ALWAYS been speculation as to the validity of the polar bear's existence. Walt read the comic, and later on is attacked by it? The same episode featured him reading about a bird that then flew into a window, a bird that wasn't even native to that area.

You know the boars they've been eating are real too. There are actually living creatures on the island that are not survivors, tailies, others, or smoke monsters.

Yes, but the vision itself was a result of the Monster communicating with Locke. The final image of the polar bear jumping at him...that's not a "real" animal, but a manifestation of the Monster.

[DblDwn]

And Tag, you're killing me here. The clicking sound isn't the "monster" but rather the sound of all the male spiders scurrying in at once as was mentioned before. It was that sound, that broke the silence of the jungle, that Nikki was reacting to probably because she put two and two together and remembered what science teacher guy had told her about the pharamones of the female.

Like I said, the concept that it was the monster is a nice thought but the evidence presented throughout the course of the episode strongly suggests otherwise.

[kopernikuz]

The theory on the polar bear is not so much that there were animals on the Island (Dharma itself has a zoology sector that they were studying there) but if you remember the comic that Hurley brought to the island and that Walt read in season 1 featured...a polar bear. So there has ALWAYS , and I stress, ALWAYS been speculation as to the validity of the polar bear's existence. Walt read the comic, and later on is attacked by it? The same episode featured him reading about a bird that then flew into a window, a bird that wasn't even native to that area.
Well, yes... but Walt did have a weird effect on everything around him that is still to be explained. It doesn't mean it wasn't a real polar bear... I mean... they killed it and stood over it's corpse... it didn't vanish upon impact with the bullet or anything odd... it just died like shot polar bears do, nothing suspicious there.

And DD, yes the cages were on the other island, but the animals were being studied by Dharma and were likely only caged when under study (or experimentation?). It's more likely they let the animals roam on the other island... as we all know, except for global warming phenomenons... polar bears are not native to tropical isles, lol, so they were clearly "put" there somehow.

Let's just be frank... when the monster wanted to kill Eko... it didn't pretend to be anything... it just threw him around like a rag doll and killed him. It only pretended to be things in visions to give him revelations... but when the time came... it laid the smack down. A bystander who discovered the body could assume he was beaten to death by a polar bear if they wanted to... but we knew the truth.

The spiders were spiders.

And DD, leave me alone, I'm agreeing with you, ROTFL... :P

[TAGLINE]

And Tag, you're killing me here. The clicking sound isn't the "monster" but rather the sound of all the male spiders scurrying in at once as was mentioned before. It was that sound, that broke the silence of the jungle, that Nikki was reacting to probably because she put two and two together and remembered what science teacher guy had told her about the pharamones of the female.

Where is this source that says the spider's make that sound, or scurry that loud? This isn't Eight Legged Freaks, these things are small tiny little spiders that didn't make any clicking sounds.

Like I said, the concept that it was the monster is a nice thought but the evidence presented throughout the course of the episode strongly suggests otherwise.

Except that the monster made the sound. The thing has appeared as many different people, and had physical contact with people. (It was a friggin horse now that I remember!)

While Arntz does present a scientific explanation for their phenomena of causing a person to be paralyzed, that was merely exposition for us to understand what happened. I mean, who else on the island would know about a spider's poison? No one, the science teacher would. And while its likely that it happened they were attacted to the pheramones...think about how long it took, mere seconds, after the sound was heard for them to appear. The attraction was explained, but how the Spiders appeared so suddenly, and coincidently after the noise, is the speculation here. But if you want to believe that spiders scurry that loudly...

[kopernikuz]

Also... regarding polar bears and other islands:

1. Polar bears are strong swimmers; they swim across bays or wide leads without hesitation. They can swim for several hours at a time over long distances. They've been tracked swimming continuously for 100 km (62 mi.)
;)

[TAGLINE]

Well, yes... but Walt did have a weird effect on everything around him that is still to be explained. It doesn't mean it wasn't a real polar bear... I mean... they killed it and stood over it's corpse... it didn't vanish upon impact with the bullet or anything odd... it just died like shot polar bears do, nothing suspicious there.



Actually, watch the walt episode again. The bear does at one point disappear and then reappear. Then it runs away.

The FIRST Polar Bear does die though, but that was the only one to die.

And DD, yes the cages were on the other island, but the animals were being studied by Dharma and were likely only caged when under study (or experimentation?). It's more likely they let the animals roam on the other island... as we all know, except for global warming phenomenons... polar bears are not native to tropical isles, lol, so they were clearly "put" there somehow.

Who knows.

Let's just be frank... when the monster wanted to kill Eko... it didn't pretend to be anything... it just threw him around like a rag doll and killed him. It only pretended to be things in visions to give him revelations... but when the time came... it laid the smack down. A bystander who discovered the body could assume he was beaten to death by a polar bear if they wanted to... but we knew the truth.

Yeah, but before it was his brother. And one could say its a vision...but it is as much a "vision" as Dave was to HUrley on the Island. The Monster can be a great many things to people (a horse to Kate of all things).

[TAGLINE]

Also... regarding polar bears and other islands:


;)

And I'm sure they will be doing a ton of swimming in Shark infested waters.

The Polar Bears are studied on the island. Its already been revealed on the website for fans.

[kopernikuz]

So you agree there are actual living non-smoke-monster creatures on the island. I'm simply posing that the spiders are the same... as are the boars, the birds, etc...

The island exacts retribution, no question... but the very fact that the teacher explains the pheremones explains the spiders. It's simple storytelling. Otherwise, the nature of the poison is the only logical thing needed to be said... but it wasn't.

If you believe the monster was there, fine... it was there to chuckle and soak in the ironic retribution about to take place. But the spiders were real... unless you believe her jarred one was the only one on the island. As for how fast... how fast would you show up for a booty call? ROTFL :P

[DblDwn]

I hate to do it Kop but, regarding the polar bear, I have to side with Tag on this one. As he said Walt was reading the comic with the polar bear in it and then the polar bear appeared on the island. Much like in Walt's flashback to when he was living in Sydney with his mother, in the flashback right before she collapsed and died I believe it was, Walt was drawing the picture of the bird and then the same bird magically appeared on the balcony outside. Even Walt's stepfather was mystified by that one.

Walt had a power that was touched upon in the first season and, hopefully since he was "kidnapped" the entire 2nd season and is now on the high seas with Michael the writers won't forget about it and will follow up on that down the road.

[TAGLINE]

The island exacts retribution, no question... but the very fact that the teacher explains the pheremones explains the spiders. It's simple storytelling. Otherwise, the nature of the poison is the only logical thing needed to be said... but it wasn't.

And the island enacted its vengence in a means that was more subtle than throwing Eko against a tree. But it has manifested as animals before. The storytelling was to allow Nikki to know what the spider would do, why they might crawl up her leg of all the others, and explained the whole story.

Perhaps the intention of the writers was to create a kind of Pan's Labyrinth scenario...there was a logical explanation, and then there was an illogical solution involving other worldly influence. But the sound of the monster is there, I'm not the one person is going off on it, its been discussed since the episode came out. However, if it truely was the spiders...then why when they were close up on them was there no sound?

[DblDwn]

Where is this source that says the spider's make that sound, or scurry that loud? This isn't Eight Legged Freaks, these things are small tiny little spiders that didn't make any clicking sounds.

Maybe so but we don't know how many spiders were on their way. Arntz made it sound like the males just hang out and wait for the female to be ready so for all we know there were hundreds of spiders coming from as far as 1 mile, perhaps even 5 miles, away. We don't know how far their scent goes. So if you've got hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of spiders scurrying through the jungle then there is going to be a clattering sound that someone would react to if they were in the midst of realizing that they just f-ed themselves.

Except that the monster made the sound.[/quote]

To quote you, where is this source that says that the sound, or even the spiders, were manifested by the "monster?" Is that officially documented so that we can all apologize for arguing for this long or are you just being stubborn again and refusing to consider that your idea, once again while a good thought at first, is probably not all that likely in hindsight.

[kopernikuz]

I hate to do it Kop but, regarding the polar bear, I have to side with Tag on this one. As he said Walt was reading the comic with the polar bear in it and then the polar bear appeared on the island. Much like in Walt's flashback to when he was living in Sydney with his mother, in the flashback right before she collapsed and died I believe it was, Walt was drawing the picture of the bird and then the same bird magically appeared on the balcony outside. Even Walt's stepfather was mystified by that one.

Walt had a power that was touched upon in the first season and, hopefully since he was "kidnapped" the entire 2nd season and is now on the high seas with Michael the writers won't forget about it and will follow up on that down the road.
I'm in complete agreement with you here about Walt... but the show has also been clear and as Tag said about the website, that the bears were part of the "experiment". The fact that Walt also had this power off the island further makes it all the weirder, in that it wasn't something the Island made happen, like healing Locke.

The fact that the bear attack was instigated by Walt's imagning him at that moment is probably true... but the bear was real. He didn't create it, the show has made no bones about the animals reasons for being there. For all we know, the bird was real and was "attracted" by Walt... as was the bear.

Locke's vision for example could be considered a "premonition"... Kate and Sawyer exchange lines that happen in a later episode... Maybe Walt doesn't conjure the animals... but "predicts" them ;)

Premonitions figure heavily in this show... just ask Desmond :)

[DblDwn]

The storytelling was to allow Nikki to know what the spider would do

Precisely!!!!!! Nikki knew what the spider would do and that was why she reacted to the sound of a great many male spiders hurriedly approaching.

why they might crawl up her leg of all the others

All the other what? People that weren't in the jungle at the time? People that didn't have spider pharamones on her hand?

Now you're proving my side of the argument without even trying.

[DblDwn]

I'm in complete agreement with you here about Walt... but the show has also been clear and as Tag said about the website, that the bears were part of the "experiment". The fact that Walt also had this power off the island further makes it all the weirder, in that it wasn't something the Island made happen, like healing Locke.

The fact that the bear attack was instigated by Walt's imagning him at that moment is probably true... but the bear was real. He didn't create it, the show has made no bones about the animals reasons for being there. For all we know, the bird was real and was "attracted" by Walt... as was the bear.

Locke's vision for example could be considered a "premonition"... Kate and Sawyer exchange lines that happen in a later episode... Maybe Walt doesn't conjure the animals... but "predicts" them ;)

Premonitions figure heavily in this show... just ask Desmond :)

That's a fair point good buddy.

[TAGLINE]

Maybe so but we don't know how many spiders were on their way. Arntz made it sound like the males just hang out and wait for the female to be ready so for all we know there were hundreds of spiders coming from as far as 1 mile, perhaps even 5 miles, away. We don't know how far their scent goes. So if you've got hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of spiders scurrying through the jungle then there is going to be a clattering sound that someone would react to if they were in the midst of realiz