Fleet Geeks Anonymous

[Tresk Im'nel]

I've been authorised to start a general discussion thread for EU capital ships and starfighters. So now we can use this thread for any general discussion of EU class designations, ship classes established in the EU, capabilities of different vessels, etc. We can probably squeeze in discussion of civilian freighters, etc. as well...

Also, here's the place for vehicle-related questions of all sorts. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

And anyone is welcome to use the "Fleet Geek" title seen in my sig. We can be something of a loose fanclub, sort of like the Fleet Junkies at TFN (but not affiliated in any way). All stances on tech matters are welcome, so don't worry about that when contemplating joining. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[RougePilot09]

Star Fighters or Starships? what would rather have?

[Tresk Im'nel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Star Fighters or Starships? what would rather have?[/b][/quote]

Either or. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif I'm equally happy to discuss either one.

We've been having a rather interesting discussion of SW capital ship designations in the ITW thread...

[Jjm3233]

Well don't leave us hanging . . .

[Soontir Solo]

Well I am a huge fan of EU everything. I love all the EU ship creations. The New Jedi Order Series really did a good job of creating some awesome ships, that were great to read about. I am a particular fan of the Chiss Clawcraft from the NJO.

The EU created E-wings, Tie Defenders, Bothan Assault Cruisers, Dreadnaughts, and variations of already created ships from the movies. I love them all. I don't like a few of the creations like the Eye of Palpatine, but that is the only one that particularly stands out.

[Tresk Im'nel]

Okay, here's one: now that they've officially adopted the film-derived 17.6 km measurement for an Executor-class Super Star Destroyer, do you think they'll retcon the lengths of the Eclipse- and Sovereign-classes?

My favourite EU capital ships are the Defender-class Star Destroyer and the Bothan Assault Cruiser. How can one not like a ship named the Ralroost? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif Although the Rejuvenator-class SDs might also be near the top of my list if we knew more about them...

[Jjm3233]

I think now that they have settled on a length for the SSD, we may see some new data. But how long will it take?

My favorite EU ships are of the specialist variety - Lancer class Frigates and Interdictor Cruisers.

[stormtrooper9]

Is this a EU Q and A thried? If so Ive seen differnt Pics of E and K wings on the way they look where can I get the Offical Pics from?

[Tresk Im'nel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think now that they have settled on a length for the SSD, we may see some new data. But how long will it take?[/b][/quote]

Possibly a long time, there's not much room for new material related to DE, and the New EGVV gave the previously-established length for the Eclipse...

And how could I have forgotten Lancers and Interdictors? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif Definitely two of the more interesting concepts for specialised starships in SW. The Lancer-class has a definite similarity to a real-world AEGIS Cruiser in function, which is neat in its own way, but the Interdictor is something truly distinctive...

BTW, one link no Fleet Geek should be without: Asset Tracking (http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/stu/dwongfau/assettracking/index.php). style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Is this a EU Q and A thried? If so Ive seen differnt Pics of E and K wings on the way they look where can I get the Offical Pics from?[/b][/quote]

Hang on, I'll try and link some.

There are E-wing pics in the starwars.com Databank. I've seen official pics of K-wings in The Essential Chronology and The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels.

Here (http://www.sicqnus.com/swafcl8.htm) are some pics of the Action Fleet E-wing, which seems fairly accurate compared to the pics I've seen...

No luck on the K-wing, sorry.

[Jjm3233]

Here is a link for a K-Wing pic from X-wing Alliance, but I have not seen the official pics on the web.

http://optreview.iwarp.com/k-wing.htm

[stormtrooper9]

Originally posted by Tresk Im'nel@Aug 24 2004, 06:37 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Is this a EU Q and A thried? If so Ive seen differnt Pics of E and K wings on the way they look where can I get the Offical Pics from?

Hang on, I'll try and link some.

There are E-wing pics in the starwars.com Databank. I've seen official pics of K-wings in The Essential Chronology and The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels.

Here (http://www.sicqnus.com/swafcl8.htm) are some pics of the Action Fleet E-wing, which seems fairly accurate compared to the pics I've seen...

No luck on the K-wing, sorry.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]
Thanks That how it looks in the New Essential guide to Vehiles But I dont know what it ssaids on the site I would like to know what it saids about the R 7 droid since the is an Empiral logo on it. If you can get it in Eneglish that will be great.


Originally posted by Jjm3233@Aug 24 2004, 07:14 PM
Here is a link for a K-Wing pic from X-wing Alliance, but I have not seen the official pics on the web.

http://optreview.iwarp.com/k-wing.htm
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

This is what I was talking about Ive seen that one and the one in the New Essintal guide to vecails.

[Soontir Solo]

I haven't heard much about the K-Wing in the past. Can anybody give me a heads up on some of its capabilities?

[Tresk Im'nel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I haven't heard much about the K-Wing in the past. Can anybody give me a heads up on some of its capabilities?[/b][/quote]

It's a New Republic heavy starfighter/bomber (it's worth noting that it's always referred to as a "K-wing Bomber") developed after the Emperor Reborn Crisis and used heavily in the Yevethan War. The K-wing has a two-being crew, pilot and weapons officer. Its primary armament is comprised of assorted missiles, torpedoes and projectile weapons, although it does have two remotely-operated laser turrets, primarily for self-defence. It should be noted that the NEGVV states that the K-wing lacks a hyperdrive, which implies that they usually operate off of NRN fleet carriers, and would also explain why they seldom appear in the NJO. CUSWE entry:

http://www1.theforce.net/cuswe/search.asp?search=k-wing

Sorry about the delay responding.

[Soontir Solo]

Thanks Tresk, by the way good idea with the EU Practice Range thread.

[Lord Ulic]

So this game, X-Wing Alliance, is it in continuity? And if it is, what's the time setting?

[Tresk Im'nel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>So this game, X-Wing Alliance, is it in continuity? And if it is, what's the time setting?[/b][/quote]

It takes place between ESB and ROTJ. As for its continuity status, I'm pretty sure it's S-level (Supplemental Continuity), which means that it is in continuity, but only the parts that don't contradict other sources (XWA's Battle of Endor scenario makes a hash of the timeline and has Ace Azzameen flying the Millennium Falcon instead of Lando Calrissian, so that part of the game is non-continuity). Also, its S-level status would mean that it's outranked by the NEGVV, ICS, ITW and other C-level sources (not to mention the G-level films, of course, and I won't get into the debate over whether ICS/ITW books rank above other C-level sources or not... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif) for ships specifications, etc.

However, it definitely does have some continuity standing, since Ace Azzameen has a paragraph in the New Essential Guide to Characters.

[Sam Kenobi]

Speeking of Star Wars Space Sims, wouldn't LucasArts make a killing if they made a new one? I just love those games. Especially if they made a NJO one. That would bne the coolest thing ever.

[Lord Ulic]

Originally posted by Sam Kenobi@Sep 4 2004, 10:31 AM
Speeking of Star Wars Space Sims, wouldn't LucasArts make a killing if they made a new one?* I just love those games.* Especially if they made a NJO one.* That would bne the coolest thing ever.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


A new Rogue Squadron game as a follow-up or tie-in to the X-wing novels and comics. It could be set post-Starfighters of Adumar. I got the original Rogue Squadron on PC and no matter how old it will ever be, it will always be a classic.

[Sam Kenobi]

Yep, better than II and III. Especially III.

[Soontir Solo]

I would love a game where you are in the fleet and control your own ship and move up to eventually controlling a fleet and stuff and having missions like escort, hit and fade, invasion, and stuff like that with the fleet you control. That would be awesome.

[Tresk Im'nel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I would love a game where you are in the fleet and control your own ship and move up to eventually controlling a fleet and stuff and having missions like escort, hit and fade, invasion, and stuff like that with the fleet you control. That would be awesome.[/b][/quote]

That would be fantastic! Sort of a Star Wars version of Harpoon or Starfleet Command. Maybe they could call it Fleet Commander to tie in with Force Commander. It would be great if they had scenarios for the Sith Wars, the Clone Wars, the Rebellion, the Thrawn Crisis, the Emperor Reborn Crisis, the Black Fleet Crisis and the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion...

[Soontir Solo]

Exactly, I have played Starfleet command. That would be awesome to be able to do a similar thing with Star Wars. Except like when you have a huge cruiser you would actually be able to have a full complement of squadrons (like 6 for an Impstar Deuce). I think it would be hard to make but if it could be done it would be incredible. Especially if it followed real Star Wars campaigns, like commanding a Star Destroyer or some other cruiser during the Thrawn Series or X-Wing Series, or even better New Jedi Order Series.

[Tresk Im'nel]

The Thrawn Trilogy or the NJO would be great. Or maybe the Battle of Endor...

I've got the stripped-down Neutral Zone Edition of Starfleet Command, which is just Klingons vs. Federation, but I've never really gotten into it. What might work better for Star Wars battles would a system like Harpoon Classic where most of your orders are given to an entire task force or air group (fighter group, in this case style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif) rather than always dealing with individual ships (does Starfleet Command ever allow for tactical orders to a whole task force? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif). That way you could have a grouping of, say, an SSD, 12 ISDs, 5 VSDs and 15 escorts of assorted classes, acting as a single fleet task force and represented by one icon on the sector map. And if you wanted to execute a pincer manoeuvre or divide your forces, you could split some of them off into a different group. Always giving orders to each ship separately just wouldn't work for the scale of engagements common in Star Wars...

[Jjm3233]

That sounds like a very cool game - deploy your Interdictors and fight!

[Tresk Im'nel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>That sounds like a very cool game - deploy your Interdictors and fight! [/b][/quote]

Now if only we could persuade the developers at LucasArts of that... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Soontir Solo]

Exactly

And about your question, I played Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates and you could control your own task force of up to 3 ships and give them commands and orders to do. You always had direct command of one ship (the flagship or whichever ship you chose) and the others you could beam over too or just give orders too.

But I would definitely favor big fleets that you could eventually command in a Star Wars game like it. I could understand starting off with one ship, like a Frigate or Dreadnaught, but eventually I would want to be at the command of a Mon Cal Cruiser with my own fleet of at least 6 or 7 ships.

[Braden Dar]

I want to throw together some fiction but I need some help. I'll give a Star Destroyer name and I'd like responses as to:

A) When is the latest mention of this ship in relative terms to the EU?
B) Names of any crew and their position on the ship.
C) Where was the ship said to be during the post-Hoth to pre-Endor time period?
D) When was construction supposed to be completed and at what shipyards?
E) Does the ship survive to the events in ROTJ? Past the events of ROTJ? Etc.


Here's the first one:
Red Dragon
Mentioned in the Star Wars XWing game
[attachmentid=16176]
Need time frame and all of the above.

[Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)]

Braden Dar - I've transferred your questions into the Fleet Geeks thread because I think they fit neatly in here.

If you haven't had a chance yet, you might like to have a look through the thread directory (pinned to the top of the forum) where you'll find threads to cover most areas of EU interest.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Jediwan]

I think a Fleet based game would be great. But since Lucas Arts probably won't make it, why don't we make a mod for Starfleet Command?

[Braden Dar]

Thank you, Suzanne. I appreciate the help. I just got back from church and tried looking for the post, and was baffled when I couldn't find it. Feel free to send me a PM if this should occur again. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Braden Dar]

And really...I'd love info I could use for a story set between Hoth and Endor, around the construction of a few new SD's, using SD's that would be available for the time and place.

I know the Riesa is listed as being at the shipyards at Tallaaan, and the Leonides is at Achillea (nearby). But what of the ships listed in various places/sources that are going unaccounted for elsewhere.

Red Dragon, Blacken, Maximum, Harpox...a steady list of Imperial SD's. Just don't know what would be expendable and available. Help me, my fellow geeks!

[Ripley]

<span style="color:blue">Length of a Super Star Destroyer. Discuss.</span>

[Jediwan]

9 Kilometers long.

[Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)]

Oh-oh ... this could get nasty.

*takes a deep breath*

Stay calm everydoby.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Anguirus111]

Why can't we just use the Databank's number? It's been updated to correspond with Curtis Saxon's answer so there's no longer any need for debate.

From the databank:

Size:
19,000 meters

[DarthSolo]

Do we even know for a fact that all ImpStars are the same length necesarily? Obviously there would be differention between the ImpStar I and ImpStar II, but might there even be a difference within each series? I've never been one to be picky about lenghts, though.

[Braden Dar]

Um...a Super-class Star Destroyer has (as far as I know) always been listed as 8 km, or 8000 meters, long.
An Imperial-class is 1.6 km, or 1,600 meters, long.
A Victory-class is 0.9 km, or 900 meters, long.

DS, I could see a difference of a few meters either side of the listed length. But not a significant size difference.
Anything else?

[Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)]

Ah, Braden - you have yet to become a true fanboy if you are unaware of the controversy that this question raises. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Have a look at this thread over at TOS forums:
http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=152248

But beware - your feelings about the Star Wars Universe may never be the same after reading it! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Braden Dar]

Wow. Sorry I spoke so soon. I only read the first page of the thread, and already I'm thinking I need a college education majoring in trigonometry or something.

[Jediwan]

Originally posted by Anguirus111@Feb 20 2006, 07:07 PM
Why can't we just use the Databank's number? It's been updated to correspond with Curtis Saxon's answer so there's no longer any need for debate.

From the databank:

Size:
19,000 meters
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Actually the Databank used to say 8,000. They recently changed it.

[Braden Dar]

Now I'm all confused. I'm not sure what numbers I'll be able to use, and what I'll have to dis-count. When I do piece together a story, I'll have to bug all the "Knowledgable Ones" for whatever specifications I need.

Hmm...<thinking aloud>should I then discard and recycle my WEG material?


And I get to start another new page...woo hoo. This is my lucky day.

[Anguirus111]

Originally posted by Jediwan+Feb 20 2006, 10:58 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jediwan @ Feb 20 2006, 10:58 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Anguirus111@Feb 20 2006, 07:07 PM
Why can't we just use the Databank's number?* It's been updated to correspond with Curtis Saxon's answer so there's no longer any need for debate.

From the databank:

Size:
19,000 meters
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Actually the Databank used to say 8,000. They recently changed it.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]


Yeah I know they recently changed it which is why I say just run with it.

[Braden Dar]

From 8000 to 19000...that is a big difference. How come its been wrong for so long and its just now being made right?

And that thread comments on the size differences between an XWing and an AWing. It sounds to me like the statement is that an AWing looks smaller on the screen, but it's supposed to be bigger! Wha...?

What gives? In all of the stories, the XWing is longer and taller and wider. Is the statement acurate? Or is it mis-printed?

[Anguirus111]

History of the '5-Mile Fallacy'

http://theforce.net/swtc/ssd5mile.html


But whether or not you believe it is up to you.

[Soontir Solo]

I personally regard teh SSD to be 8,000 meters and the X-Wing to be larger than the A-Wing, for the simple fact that in every book I have read that is how it has been.

[Tresk Im'nel]

LOL, the SSD length debate... Now there's a can of worms I like to leave alone. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif I'd have to say that 19 km should be taken as definitive, IMHO. It's consistent with the G-level film visuals (unlike the original 8 km figure) and quite aside from that I gather SW canon policy favours the newer source in the event of same-level conflict, so since there's no possibility of it being accidental or mistaken, 19 km it is for the Executor-class Star Dreadnought...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>and the X-Wing to be larger than the A-Wing[/b][/quote]

Has that ever been challenged? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif Every source I've seen seems to agree with that, in fact (apologies in advance for kicking over another hornet's nest style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif), it's been suggested that the A-wing studio models were scaled to look even smaller than it's usually reported to be:

http://deckplans.00sf.com/Studio_Models/RZ-1_Studio.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I want to throw together some fiction but I need some help. I'll give a Star Destroyer name and I'd like responses as to:

A) When is the latest mention of this ship in relative terms to the EU?
B) Names of any crew and their position on the ship.
C) Where was the ship said to be during the post-Hoth to pre-Endor time period?
D) When was construction supposed to be completed and at what shipyards?
E) Does the ship survive to the events in ROTJ? Past the events of ROTJ? Etc.[/b][/quote]

Kaelis, one of the mods from starwars.com, runs an excellent site called Asset Tracking (http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/stu/dwongfau/AssetTracking.php), which should help a lot: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif It doesn't list any further information on the Red Dragon, though.

You might also want to try the CUSWE (http://www.theforce.net/swenc) or Wookieepedia (http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page). style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Hmm...<thinking aloud>should I then discard and recycle my WEG material?[/b][/quote]

No. It's still at least S-level canon, probably mostly C-level, and even the SWTC site frequently references WEG material. It's just a matter of being aware that there are occasional mistakes.

The best books for technical background on Star Wars ships would be the Incredible Cross-Sections / Inside the Worlds series from DK...

[Master Magnus]

^Yes. The length of the Executor wasn't the only thing that WEG screwed up (among other things, they also screwed up the height of the AT-AT and even the height of R2-D2!).

[Tresk Im'nel]

^Yes. The length of the Executor wasn't the only thing that WEG screwed up (among other things, they also screwed up the height of the AT-AT and even the height of R2-D2!).

I hadn't heard about Artoo being a WEG error, although that site does have an article on R2 unit scaling in the same section as the A-wing, so I was aware there were inconsistencies. And the AT-AT's height was also corrected in ITW:OT, of course. It's funny how those errors proved far less controversial than the Executor-class... Even the Snowspeeder measurements aren't consistent with the size of the full-scale props, I gather.

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Anguirus111@Feb 21 2006, 05:21 AM
History of the '5-Mile Fallacy'

http://theforce.net/swtc/ssd5mile.html


But whether or not you believe it is up to you.
Quoted post

There's not an issue of believing, that's how F/X crewscaled the Executor (eleven times the length of a regular ISD. See for example From Star Wars to Indiana Jones). There's also Anthony Tully's site (http://home.flash.net/~atully/ExecHist.ht) on the matter (which is older than Dr. Saxton's site IIRC).

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Tresk Im'nel@Feb 22 2006, 02:41 PM
^Yes. The length of the Executor wasn't the only thing that WEG screwed up (among other things, they also screwed up the height of the AT-AT and even the height of R2-D2!).

I hadn't heard about Artoo being a WEG error, although that site does have an article on R2 unit scaling in the same section as the A-wing, so I was aware there were inconsistencies. And the AT-AT's height was also corrected in ITW:OT, of course. It's funny how those errors proved far less controversial than the Executor-class... Even the Snowspeeder measurements aren't consistent with the size of the full-scale props, I gather.
Quoted post

The scaling on that site has been shown to be dubios. If those measurements are correct, then the pilot's head is only 11 cm wide. You can read more at the StarDestroyer.net forum (which is heavily tech-oriented):

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php...t=awing+scaling (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=74127&highlight=awing+scaling)'

EDIT: Pity, the images doesn't show up.

[Tresk Im'nel]

The scaling on that site has been shown to be dubios. If those measurements are correct, then the pilot's head is only 11 cm wide. You can read more at the StarDestroyer.net forum (which is heavily tech-oriented):

Ah, thanks for the link. :) I hadn't yet checked it over myself, but since I'm planning to scratchbuild a 1:72 scale A-wing ("someday" ;)) I'll have to eventually...

[Master Magnus]

^You're welcome! I'm just glad that LFL is retconning the mistakes that WEG did (although of course I'm a huge WEG fan, they did a lot of great stuff, their sourcebooks were awesome and they were important in a time when the general interest for Star Wars was in the low)

[Tresk Im'nel]

I'm just glad that LFL is retconning the mistakes that WEG did (although of course I'm a huge WEG fan, they did a lot of great stuff, their sourcebooks were awesome and they were important in a time when the general interest for Star Wars was in the low).

Agreed. :) On both counts, WEG produced some great EU material despite their occasional errors and I regret being enough of a latecomer to SW fandom to have missed a lot of their stuff...

[Master Magnus]

^This is a bit off-topic, but when did you "discover" SW?

[Tresk Im'nel]

On topic comment: Am I correct that the use of "HIMS" (His Imperial Majesty's Ship) as a name prefix for Imperial warships is fanon with no official evidence to support it? I've asked a few people and so far no one's come up with a definite canon usage of it...

^This is a bit off-topic, but when did you "discover" SW?

No worries. :) My reply is, however, a bit long-winded, so I'll post it in the Foreign Club... ;)

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Tresk Im'nel+Feb 22 2006, 03:20 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tresk Im'nel @ Feb 22 2006, 03:20 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>On topic comment: Am I correct that the use of "HIMS" (His Imperial Majesty's Ship) as a name prefix for Imperial warships is fanon with no official evidence to support it? I've asked a few people and so far no one's come up with a definite canon usage of it...
Quoted post
[/b]
As far as I know, that's fanon.

EDIT: I went over to Wookieepedia and it's listed in the "List of fanon creations":
http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/List_o...non_terminology (http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/List_of_fanon_creations#Fanon_terminology)

^This is a bit off-topic, but when did you "discover" SW?

<!--QuoteBegin-Tresk Im'nel@Feb 22 2006, 03:20 PM
No worries. :) My reply is, however, a bit long-winded, so I'll post it in the Foreign Club... ;)
Quoted post
[/quote]
Ahh, I'll head over there.

[Jediwan]

Wasn't the Eclipse class SSD 19 kilometers long?

[Anguirus111]

So here's the thing. The Eclipse length stated in DE was actually based off of the faulty specs for the SSD. The Eclipse was supposed to be twice as long but given the new length of the SSD it comes up slightly shorter.

So I reconcile it as this. Originally the Eclipse was supposed to be twice as long and considerably deeper than the SSD. Unfortunately after the fall of Endor, the remnants of the Empire did not have time to make one big ship so they made two small Eclipse's which appeared in DE and Empire's End. If you add those two ships together in terms of length, you get the same image that WEG had in the Dark Empire Sourcebook which was compared to the faulty SSD length.

[Braden Dar]

Kaelis, one of the mods from starwars.com, runs an excellent site called Asset Tracking (http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/stu/dwongfau/AssetTracking.php), which should help a lot: :) It doesn't list any further information on the Red Dragon, though.

You might also want to try the CUSWE (http://www.theforce.net/swenc) or Wookieepedia (http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page). :)

Actually, Asset Tracking is the prime site I've collected names for the unaccounted for SD's. I really like the site (from a statisticians point of view) and just wish I could get all the detailed listings for ALL of the ships on the site to appear onscreen at the same time so I can print it off. Its much easier working from a handful of paper than combing the website while trying to figure out what I'm looking at.

LOL...I really AM a Star Wars Fleet Geek!!


<edit> I really do need to waste some time in here trying to figure out all the right buttons to hit. hehe And don't bother telling me I sould read the forum header posts, I won't listen...no, certainly not.

EDIT: I put in the quote tags, hope you don't mind. :)
~Tresk

[Tresk Im'nel]

EDIT: I went over to Wookieepedia and it's listed in the "List of fanon creations":

Thanks. :) That was actually put there at my instigation... ;) Glad to hear I don't seem to have been too hasty to add it...

Actually, as an aside, after reading the ROTS novelisation I think ISS (Imperial Space Ship or Imperial Star Ship) is far likelier because we now know that the Old Republic used the prefix RSS. Since the Empire tried to present itself as a legitimate "reorganisation" of the Republic, the less dramatic change seems likelier to me.

Alternately, the Empire may not have used a name prefix at all, as a number of major real-world navies don't. (The Imperial Japanese Navy didn't (I gather "HIJMS" is apocryphal), although current JMSDF ships carry the prefix JDS and the Germans and French don't use a prefix internally, although FGS and FNS are used in NATO communications and the old Imperial German Navy up to 1919 used the prefix SMS. I also don't think the Russian Navy has ever used name prefixes internally, although apparently RFS is now used internationally in much the same way as FGS and FNS).

So here's the thing. The Eclipse length stated in DE was actually based off of the faulty specs for the SSD. The Eclipse was supposed to be twice as long but given the new length of the SSD it comes up slightly shorter.

So I reconcile it as this. Originally the Eclipse was supposed to be twice as long and considerably deeper than the SSD. Unfortunately after the fall of Endor, the remnants of the Empire did not have time to make one big ship so they made two small Eclipse's which appeared in DE and Empire's End. If you add those two ships together in terms of length, you get the same image that WEG had in the Dark Empire Sourcebook which was compared to the faulty SSD length.

That would work. However I usually tend to just treat the official length for the Eclipse class as a "misprint" and assume that the "actual" length is somewhere around 41.5 km. Alternately, Dr. Saxton still uses the canon length on the grounds that with its far deeper hull the Eclipse would still be a far more massive ship than the Executor... :ohwell:

Actually, Asset Tracking is the prime site I've collected names for the unaccounted for SD's. I really like the site (from a statisticians point of view) and just wish I could get all the detailed listings for ALL of the ships on the site to appear onscreen at the same time so I can print it off. Its much easier working from a handful of paper than combing the website while trying to figure out what I'm looking at.

Hmm... Would probably have to cut and paste into a text file...

LOL...I really AM a Star Wars Fleet Geek!!

Welcome to the club. ;)

[Anguirus111]

That would work. However I usually tend to just treat the official length for the Eclipse class as a "misprint" and assume that the "actual" length is somewhere around 41.5 km. Alternately, Dr. Saxton still uses the canon length on the grounds that with its far deeper hull the Eclipse would still be a far more massive ship than the Executor...

No offense to Dr. Saxon but I get the distinct impression that he's in love with the SSD and has it in for the Eclipse because it's 'bigger' than his beloved SSD. At least that's what I've gathered from his website. :shots:

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Anguirus111@Feb 25 2006, 10:01 PM
That would work. However I usually tend to just treat the official length for the Eclipse class as a "misprint" and assume that the "actual" length is somewhere around 41.5 km. Alternately, Dr. Saxton still uses the canon length on the grounds that with its far deeper hull the Eclipse would still be a far more massive ship than the Executor...

No offense to Dr. Saxon but I get the distinct impression that he's in love with the SSD and has it in for the Eclipse because it's 'bigger' than his beloved SSD. At least that's what I've gathered from his website. :shots:
Quoted post

I'm not sure what you're implying, but Dr. Saxton wasn't the first or the only one that pointed out the 5 mile fallacy.

[Braden Dar]

Lets change gears here. Is it safe to say that the "speeds" of the starfighters is accurate? The YWing is too slow, the XWing is sort of slow (by comparison to Imperial fighters) but all around a great fighter, the BWing is just not worth it - it has little speed, manueverability lacks, and payload isn't what its cracked up to be - and the AWingis just too fragile for massive engagements.
As for the Imperial fighters...the TIE is a good space superiority fighter, but it is fragile, and get it into the atmosphere and it suffers from terrible aerodynamics. The Interceptor is a little better. Its more agile with more firepower - and it is an improvement when it comes to atmosphereic flying.
The EU adds vessels like the EWing. Its a real improvement on the XWing platform (i.e. space superiority, and not specialized mission vehicle). It adds more speed, of course everything's newer on it, and it has a new astromech (not always an improvement, but in this case it works), and the weapons don't suffer.

[Anguirus111]

Originally posted by Master Magnus+Feb 25 2006, 05:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Master Magnus @ Feb 25 2006, 05:32 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Anguirus111@Feb 25 2006, 10:01 PM
That would work. However I usually tend to just treat the official length for the Eclipse class as a "misprint" and assume that the "actual" length is somewhere around 41.5 km. Alternately, Dr. Saxton still uses the canon length on the grounds that with its far deeper hull the Eclipse would still be a far more massive ship than the Executor...

No offense to Dr. Saxon but I get the distinct impression that he's in love with the SSD and has it in for the Eclipse because it's 'bigger' than his beloved SSD. At least that's what I've gathered from his website. :shots:
Quoted post

I'm not sure what you're implying, but Dr. Saxton wasn't the first or the only one that pointed out the 5 mile fallacy.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]


No, no I'm talking about his decision not to increase the length of the Eclipse under the guise that it's length was screwed up like the Executor's length was. The WEG sourcebook for DE shows a proportional sketch of the Eclipse in comparison to the SSD and that showed be used to determine it's length like how Dr. Saxon used the length of an SD to determine the length of the SSD. But instead he's strictly going on the length of the Eclipise provided in Dark Empire where with the Executor length that's been published in numerous sources he's been much more liberal with it. So why the double standard?

[/rantings of an Eclipse fan]

[Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)]

At Braden Dar's suggestion his Starfighter's Gallery (http://www.galacticsenate.com/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=16533&st=0#entry817346) was closed with discussion to be continued in this thread.

Unfortunately the scattering of dates in that thread would mean that the two threads would not mesh well so could not be merged without looking like a dog's breakfast, so I simply include a link to it here for anyone who wants to remember the lovely pictures and brief discussion in that thread.

:)

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Anguirus111+Mar 3 2006, 06:02 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Anguirus111 @ Mar 3 2006, 06:02 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Master Magnus@Feb 25 2006, 05:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Anguirus111@Feb 25 2006, 10:01 PM
That would work. However I usually tend to just treat the official length for the Eclipse class as a "misprint" and assume that the "actual" length is somewhere around 41.5 km. Alternately, Dr. Saxton still uses the canon length on the grounds that with its far deeper hull the Eclipse would still be a far more massive ship than the Executor...

No offense to Dr. Saxon but I get the distinct impression that he's in love with the SSD and has it in for the Eclipse because it's 'bigger' than his beloved SSD. At least that's what I've gathered from his website. :shots:
Quoted post

I'm not sure what you're implying, but Dr. Saxton wasn't the first or the only one that pointed out the 5 mile fallacy.
Quoted post



No, no I'm talking about his decision not to increase the length of the Eclipse under the guise that it's length was screwed up like the Executor's length was. The WEG sourcebook for DE shows a proportional sketch of the Eclipse in comparison to the SSD and that showed be used to determine it's length like how Dr. Saxon used the length of an SD to determine the length of the SSD. But instead he's strictly going on the length of the Eclipise provided in Dark Empire where with the Executor length that's been published in numerous sources he's been much more liberal with it. So why the double standard?

[/rantings of an Eclipse fan]
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]
Oh, I see what you mean, well, Dr. Saxton says that:
The primary evidence still stands [from DE]: although the Eclipse is much fatter and wider, and therefore has a greater total tonnage, it is definitely shorter.
So, while Executor may be longer, Eclipse is far more massive.

[Anguirus111]

But right before that it says:

Some secondary and derivative books have wrongly stated that the Eclipse is twice the length of Executor. Such statements were based on a false understanding of the Executor's length.

It seems to be a double standard in my opinion. He should at least leave the possibility out there that the Eclipse could be as big as WEG suggests even if it might not have appeared so in the comic.

[Braden Dar]

Thank you, Suzanne...I appreciate that.
Now lets drop the capital ships issues and talk Death Star's. I know that the WEG and other earlier info listed them as, what 120 km?, and the DS II was supposed to be about 160 km?
What is the now-official appraisel of the diameters of those monsters?
Are we talking about the DS II being more than 200, 300 or even 400 km?

Sheesh !
Now that would be an undertaking. And to think that it was kept pretty secret with all that material being shipped in all the time.

[Braden Dar]

And another topic...
[attachmentid=16300]
Let's talk about these little beauties...

What do you think makes the EWing better than other starfighters? How about what makes it worse?

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Braden Dar@Mar 3 2006, 11:48 PM
Thank you, Suzanne...I appreciate that.
Now lets drop the capital ships issues and talk Death Star's. I know that the WEG and other earlier info listed them as, what 120 km?, and the DS II was supposed to be about 160 km?
What is the now-official appraisel of the diameters of those monsters?
Are we talking about the DS II being more than 200, 300 or even 400 km?

Sheesh !
Now that would be an undertaking. And to think that it was kept pretty secret with all that material being shipped in all the time.
Quoted post

The Star Wars Incredible Cross-Sections retconned the size of the first Death Star to 160 kilometer (which is more in line with the intentions of the model makers). The size of the second Death Star hasn't been officially retconned yet, but according to the model makers, the intended size was 500 miles (~800 km) in diameter (which is also supported by the movie. With the WEG figure, Endor would be smaller than our moon).

EDIT: Oops, sorry I was mistaken. The size of the second Death Star has indeed been officially retconned. According to the Inside the Worlds of the Star Wars Trilogy (published in 2004), the size of the second Death Star was 900 kilometers in diameter.

[Braden Dar]

Um...that's huge. No wonder a few fighters and a freighter could fly through its corridors. Or at least part of the superstructure.

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Braden Dar@Mar 8 2006, 04:13 AM
Um...that's huge. No wonder a few fighters and a freighter could fly through its corridors. Or at least part of the superstructure.
Quoted post

Yes, that's huge (although it was never finished of course).

[Braden Dar]

Oh, of course. But a half built, fully operational DS is better than no DS at all. lol
I know that Luke began looking at the events of Yavin during the BFC and started to doubt the validity of his act. But you have to admit, gunning down something like a DS means that potentially billions of lives would be spared. So I don't think the DS's (for all their size) were a good tool...even for the Empire.

[Anguirus111]

Yeah but how about all the innocent Imperials that were housed onboard the Death Star? Officers and their families who had merely been doing their duty and trying to survive were gunned down perhaps even when they were sleeping. So sad. :(

And what about those independent contractors working on the second Death Star. Was it their fault they just wanted to make a buck and survive in a harsh galaxy?



Where's the justice I tell you? Why does nobody think about the henchman's family? :giveup:

[Braden Dar]

That's what Luke felt...remorse for all those "innocent". The people that weren't high level officers seeking to dominate the galaxy. It made him hurt inside.

[Anguirus111]

It's a good thing Luke wasn't that much attuned to the Force. All of those deaths at such a close range would likely have incapacitated him and left him a vegetable.

[Braden Dar]

Now look at what we've done...this was supposed to be a thread for discussing the ships, capital and otherwise, in the galaxy. And here we are talking about somebodies feelings. LOL. Guess we should redouble our efforts to stay on topic.

Hutt space defenses, and the ships they get the poorly defended with...on the next Geraldo...

[Braden Dar]

Needed to move this thread back towards the top of the board. Come on, geeks, get busy. We've got tons of ships and things to talk about.

No matter how anti-Empire I am, I still think this is one of the coolest looking things in space.
[attachmentid=16439]
It just speaks volumes to me. It gives me chills sometimes to think about how much destruction one of these bad boys can dish out.

[Anguirus111]

I'm somewhat of a fan of the Firefly-Class Transport myself.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Firefly-class_transport

[Jeff Darklighter]

I have a related question on the Executor-class Super Star Destroyer. Why was this much larger ship developed? Was it just a newer and bigger destroyer or was it to replace the Death Star?

[Jeff Darklighter]

The Death Stars did have hyper drive engines, right? I used to think they did not, but that'd take to long to get across the galaxy without them.

[Braden Dar]

Originally posted by Jeff Darklighter@Apr 8 2006, 09:05 AM
I have a related question on the Executor-class Super Star Destroyer. Why was this much larger ship developed? Was it just a newer and bigger destroyer or was it to replace the Death Star?
Quoted post


The Empire lived by the motto "rule by fear". So it makes sense to continually make larger ships to scare beings into serving the Empire without complaint. The ships were built to control larger sectors of space than a lone Imperial Star Destroyer or two could handle. It was as much a command vessel as it was a capital warship, and as a much a traveling Imperial Center as it was anything else.
The ships served the purpose of intimidation and if any one dared to speak up it could slag an entire planet on its own. It could also populate an entire planet, due to its immense crew needs.

Speaking of the Super-class, I was recently re-watching parts of the OT with my nephew, and I did notice that the Executor was at least 8 or 9 times the length of the Imperial-class escort ships. So the argument over its "true" length is not much of an argument for me anymore. They were at least 10,000 meters long...and likely much closer to that 19,000 meter mark than West End Games listing of 8000 meters.
But the debating of these points is still fun to me...

[Jeff Darklighter]

Originally posted by Suzanne (ex CoS Leia)@Mar 3 2006, 01:28 AM
At Braden Dar's suggestion his Starfighter's Gallery (http://www.galacticsenate.com/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=16533&st=0#entry817346) was closed with discussion to be continued in this thread.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/...hter/index.html (http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/bwingstarfighter/index.html)
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/...hter/index.html (http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/ywingstarfighter/index.html)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-wing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-wing

Looks like the B-wing is sort of a replacement for the Y-wing. They are more attack craft than fighters. The Y-wing is not that fast or manuverable. The B-wing is difficult to fly. The B-wings are escorted by other fighters in the X-Wing books, where the Y-wings aren't.

What makes the B-Wing better than a Y-wing?

[Braden Dar]

Originally posted by Jeff Darklighter@Apr 8 2006, 09:07 AM
The Death Stars did have hyper drive engines, right? I used to think they did not, but that'd take to long to get across the galaxy without them.
Quoted post


Yes. The Death Star's did possess hyperdrives. They weren't the fastest hyperdrives, but they didn't need blinding speed so as to pop up on their "target" and take them by surprise. They also had slower than average sublight drives, for an Imperial "warship". However, they did possess some of the best armor and shielding in the Imperial Fleet.

What I can't figure out is why the Death Star's would rotate on their "north/south poles" like a planet. Was it necessary for the station's artificial gravity? Or was it due to the propulsion system?
And lets have a breakdown of how many crew members there were and listed by their respective roles (i.e. troops, hangar personnel [mechanics, pilots, etc], security/brig, etc).

[Braden Dar]

Originally posted by Jeff Darklighter@Apr 8 2006, 09:24 AM
Looks like the B-wing is sort of a replacement for the Y-wing. They are more attack craft than fighters. The Y-wing is not that fast or manuverable. The B-wing is difficult to fly. The B-wings are escorted by other fighters in the X-Wing books, where the Y-wings aren't.

What makes the B-Wing better than a Y-wing?
Quoted post


Well, the BWing is supposed to be a replacement of sorts for the YWing. They are both quite slow for fighter craft, but the BWing was meant to be more heavily armed and armored. However, the BWing is not actually as armored as Ackbar had hoped for. Its laser cannon is better than the YWings two fire-linked laser cannons, and it serves as a range finder for the other weapon systems. Its design was of importance to the Rebellion because it allows a single crewer to run everything, where the YWings featured a lot of two man crews. The BWing also has a gyroscopically stabilized command pod...that means the pilot can pick which way he/she wants to orient as "up", and it stays that way.
The BWing is not really much of a starfighter or an assualt craft, in my opinion. It can deliver some good blows to an opponent target, en mass, but as you said, its usually being escorted by XWings or other craft. They lack considerably in their intended role.
For a closer look at what the BWings can and can not accomplish, check out X-Wing:Iron Fist. The last few chapters feature a BWing assualt. Its a pretty good look at why I feel less than positive about this fighter.

Not that I want the YWing to live forever in Alliance service. I think its outdated and needing to be replaced, too. But it had its day in the sun.

[Jeff Darklighter]

Thanks Braden.

Originally posted by Braden Dar@Apr 8 2006, 12:12 PM
For a closer look at what the BWings can and can not accomplish, check out X-Wing:Iron Fist. The last few chapters feature a BWing assualt. Its a pretty good look at why I feel less than positive about this fighter.


Right, Iron Fist and Solo Command is where I got the escort comment.

Edit: Fixed grammar flaw.

[Braden Dar]

Yeah...for a anti-capital ship fighter, they sure seem to suck. They are too easily damaged and too underpowered for my tastes. If it had any of the following it wouldn't be so bad:
Blazing speed.
Awesome armor.
Heavy artillery.
An astromech socket.
he he he...I like the little domed ones.

Don't get me wrong, I have my problems with speed demons like the AWing that have almost no armor or weapons. Shall we delve into that one next?

[Jeff Darklighter]

I'd like to see a updated X-Wing with lasers on the nose with more speed. Or some cross between the X-Wing, Y-Wing and A-Wing designs (but not an Ugly).

The Rebel snubfighters have been touched on a lot already. What about moving the the various TIE fighters (fighter, interceptor, defender)?

The TIE fighter (eyeballs) is fast and manueverable, but lacks shields and hyperdrives. It is lean on firepower with only 2 laser cannons. Interceptor (squints) was better, but still lacked shields and hyperdrives in general. Defender (trips) came out later with shields and hyperdrives, but few were made.

[Braden Dar]

I've liked the idea of an updated XWing, myself. But the nose has the torpedo launchers and sensor package, not much room left for a pair of lasers. I think some overall upgrading on fresh production XWings would be great though. Improved sensors, shields and more output from the thrusters.
The TIE's are so fast and manuverable in part because they lack the added bulk of shield generators (which eat up your power supply) and hyperdrives (which take up space). We must remember that the TIE's were built with the idea of having an abundance of pilots and manufacturing facilities to produce so many of the fighters that they (the Empire) would never run out. They didn't even put life support in these things, why would they bother with shields and hyperdrives? They didn't need thier pilots to head out several lightyears from a fleet of capital ships, they needed them to tear into the Rebel fighters so the larger ships could make waste of the Rebel's cruisers.
As for models like the TIE Defender...some of the newer models failed to go into mass production for various reasons. Lack of resources amongst the Imperial's still around well after the Battle of Endor, destruction of manufacturing plants at the hands of the Alliance, etc. And again, the Empire figured that they had plenty of pilots and plenty of TIE's that they could throw away in huge numbers. Sacrificing them to the Rebel fighter pilots wasn't much of a concern to the Empire until just before the Battle of Endor and soon afterwards.

[Jeff Darklighter]

Originally posted by Braden Dar@Apr 8 2006, 10:39 PM
We must remember that the TIE's were built with the idea of having an abundance of pilots and manufacturing facilities to produce so many of the fighters that they (the Empire) would never run out. They didn't even put life support in these things, why would they bother with shields and hyperdrives? They didn't need thier pilots to head out several lightyears from a fleet of capital ships, they needed them to tear into the Rebel fighters so the larger ships could make waste of the Rebel's cruisers.
I keep wanting to think in terms of 1 on 1 fighting even though I largely know that. The General/Admiral's point of view is the way to go here.

The Rebel craft and fighters did mess up the Empire's model in the Original Trilogy forcing at least better TIE fighters.

[csr74]

Possibly an analogy with WWII fighters would help: the TIE is supposed to be equivalent to a Mitsubishi A6M Zero, easy to build, very maneuvrable, relatively fast (at least in the beginning of its career) and lacking protection. And for the TIE Defender, the Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate seems a good comparison: faster, better protected, but more difficult to build in great series.
And for the Rebel fighters:
Y-Wing = Curtiss P-40
X-Wing = North American P-51
B-Wing = Republic P-47
A-Wing= It could be one of the first jet fighters, fast but difficult to handle...Messerschmitt Me 262?

[Tresk Im'nel]

Possibly an analogy with WWII fighters would help: the TIE is supposed to be equivalent to a Mitsubishi A6M Zero, easy to build, very maneuvrable, relatively fast (at least in the beginning of its career) and lacking protection. And for the TIE Defender, the Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate seems a good comparison: faster, better protected, but more difficult to build in great series.
And for the Rebel fighters:
Y-Wing = Curtiss P-40
X-Wing = North American P-51
B-Wing = Republic P-47
A-Wing= It could be one of the first jet fighters, fast but difficult to handle...Messerschmitt Me 262?

Interesting comparison. I certainly agree about the TIE Fighter/A6M comparison, which I suspect was intentional.

As for Rebel fighters, being Canadian I tend to think in terms of British Commonwealth fighters. ;) So I'd probably say:

Y-Wing = Hawker Hurricane
X-Wing = Supermarine Spitfire (Merlin engine)
B-Wing = DeHavilland Mosquito
A-Wing = Supermarine Spitfire (Griffon engine), or Hawker Tempest. (Or, in keeping with your jet analogy, DeHavilland Vampire, though it was too late for Wartime service).

(Roughly).

Actually, I almost wonder if the Y-wing and X-wing / Hurricane and Spitfire parallel is deliberate, given the similarity between Rebel fighter squadrons and RAF Fighter Command in the Battle of Britain...

[Braden Dar]

I hadn't really considered it in WWII era fighters. It does seem in fitting with George Lucas' fascination with the older genre of films and life. He has a deep love, I've heard, with 30's era films.

[csr74]

Well, it´s quite clear the resemblance of space battles in SW with the aerial engagements in WWII. And it´s possibly deliberated. About Tresk Im´nel comparisons, i would agree more or less (though being GL American it´s possibly more "natural" to think of the ones i´ve said). Perhaps some explanation would help:

-First, i choose the P-40 as the equivalent of the Y-Wing because of the background, the P-40 was tough and a true fighter bomber in a time when this was uncommon, and it was used because (mainly) it was the best thing available, though not as good as other models. The background story of the Y-Wing is pretty similar: tough, not the best in maneuvrability and speed, but a true fighter bomber and it was available when other things weren´t.

-The X-Wing and the P-51: they are both good all around fighters. The Spitfire perhaps is going too far...Would it suit better for the E-Wing? Or that would be the Corsair?

-The B-Wing and the P-47: both big heavy fighters/fighter bombers. Though perhaps this one is a bit feeble, i reckon. The P-47 was very fast and the B-Wing not (as far as i know). The Mosquito? Possibly, though a Mosquito seems a better craft, more maneuvrable and a better fighter in comparison. And didn´t lack speed either. Then the A-1 Skyraider?

-The A-Wing: Tremendous speed and difficult to handle. Yes, it looks to me like one of the first jet fighters. Though the EU doesn´t leave it very well in terms of speed (nearly every new model is faster!). Another idea: Maybe the late versions of the Messerschmitt Me-109? I mean G-10, G-14 and K-4....

And the squadrons...12 craft each....yes, very RAF-like indeed. In the USAF it was 24 (now 18 , i think, as in the Spanish Air Force)...

[Jeff Darklighter]

Got a question on the Mon Calamari starships. Starwars databank says they were 1.2 km long. Each was made different like a work of art. They are smaller than a star destroyer, but more advanced (redendent shields, etc.).

The Mon Remonda was the lead ship going against Warlord Zsinji"s Superstar Destroyer Iron Fist. In the first meeting of these ships, the Imps stated the Mon Remonda had more firepower out the side than the SSD had pointing forward. The Mon Remonda went across the Iron First's path.

Was this Mon Calamari starship bigger than earlier ones? Or just heavier armed? (I vote for the later).

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Jeff Darklighter@Apr 17 2006, 05:15 AM
Got a question on the Mon Calamari starships. Starwars databank says they were 1.2 km long. Each was made different like a work of art. They are smaller than a star destroyer, but more advanced (redendent shields, etc.).

The Mon Remonda was the lead ship going against Warlord Zsinji"s Superstar Destroyer Iron Fist. In the first meeting of these ships, the Imps stated the Mon Remonda had more firepower out the side than the SSD had pointing forward. The Mon Remonda went across the Iron First's path.

Was this Mon Calamari starship bigger than earlier ones? Or just heavier armed? (I vote for the later).
Quoted post

You have different classes of Mon Calamari starships. The class the Home One belonged to was the largest at the battle of Endor (3,800 meters), while the winged cruisers were 1,200 meters in length. After the Galactic Civil War, the Mon Remonda was the first MC80B cruiser that was delivered by the Mon Calamari shipyards. It sported more backup shield generators and stronger hull. IIRC, the armament was the same, but it had a better fire arc.
I don't know if that helps...

[Jeff Darklighter]

Originally posted by Master Magnus+Apr 17 2006, 02:06 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Master Magnus @ Apr 17 2006, 02:06 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Jeff Darklighter@Apr 17 2006, 05:15 AM
Got a question on the Mon Calamari starships. Starwars databank says they were 1.2 km long. Each was made different like a work of art. They are smaller than a star destroyer, but more advanced (redendent shields, etc.).

The Mon Remonda was the lead ship going against Warlord Zsinji"s Superstar Destroyer Iron Fist. In the first meeting of these ships, the Imps stated the Mon Remonda had more firepower out the side than the SSD had pointing forward. The Mon Remonda went across the Iron First's path.

Was this Mon Calamari starship bigger than earlier ones? Or just heavier armed? (I vote for the later).
Quoted post

You have different classes of Mon Calamari starships. The class the Home One belonged to was the largest at the battle of Endor (3,800 meters), while the winged cruisers were 1,200 meters in length. After the Galactic Civil War, the Mon Remonda was the first MC80B cruiser that was delivered by the Mon Calamari shipyards. It sported more backup shield generators and stronger hull. IIRC, the armament was the same, but it had a better fire arc.
I don't know if that helps...
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

That helped a lot. Thanks!

The Star Wars databank only covers the star cruisers. :(
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/...iser/index.html (http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/moncalamaristarcruiser/index.html)

[Master Magnus]

^Glad that helped!

Yeah, the OS databank is rather limited.

[Jeff Darklighter]

True. I'll try to fill in more information I know on Wookieepedia Starfighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Starfighters).

Edit: Actually Wookieepeia covers the Mon Cal ships well. Just took be a bit of digging to get to the right places.

[csr74]

Very interesting and useful, the Wookiepedia, particularly on those not so well known models.

[Braden Dar]

I've just been cruising the Wookiepedia and stalking...er, I mean investigating all sorts of ships. Especially diving into the whole Executor-class and Super-class of Star Destroyers.

I think we (LFL, Lucas himself, and all the fans) should stick with the labels as such to distinguish ships seen in the movies (Eps V and VI) and ships described in the novels. The film canon ships were the Executor's and many of the ones in the novels fall into the Super category.
Wookiepedia does a solid job (many thanks to the countless people who have added or corrected something there) of telling us where the different ships are most likely to fit in with the two classes.

As an example, Executor, Lusankya, and perhaps Iron Fist are counted in the Executor-class of destroyers...being 19km long. A larger number of the commonly referred to "Super" Star Destroyers would fit into the Super-class of ship being (only) 8000 meters long, bow to stern.
I do see a need to alter the Wookiepedia's, and any other sources (starwars.com) listing of weapons and crew compliments for the larger of the classes. Both vessels boast the same numbers of crewers, passenger capacity and a few other (trivial) listings. If one ship is so much larger than the other, it would seem reasonable that it could/would hold more troops and need more hands to staff all the functions involved in running the vastly bigger machine. Just extra hands in engineering to run the various banks of engines would seem prudent.

But alas, it is not my decision to include or exclude information or to make alterations to the available data. It is my place only to enjoy what is there in the Star Wars universe.

[csr74]

The most curious thing, i thought there was only one class, the Super, which was 12,800 meters long and to which the Executor and Lusankya belonged... :but: :what:


Seems a further revision of the Wookiepedia would be advisable...

[Master Magnus]

^No, the Wookieepedia is up to date. It's the earlier sources that were mistaken.

[Braden Dar]

The 12,800 meter length was created as a waypoint between the two theories that were widely held to. It was discounted and the sizes are broken down in a fashion such as this:

Executor: 19000 m
Super: 8000 m
Imperial: 1600 m
Victory: 900 m

Some others include the Soveriegn-class and the Eclipse-class. They are both actually smaller than the Executor-class, despite being newer and with more firepower. They both measured something like 11000 meters along the keel. Eye Of Palpatine, an enormous dreadnaught built long before the first Death Star, was even bigger than this, according to some estimates.

[Master Magnus]

^I mentioned this earlier. While the Executor is longer. the Eclipse is far more massive and more volumunous (and it was armed with a superlaser ;)).

[Jeff Darklighter]

Originally posted by Braden Dar+Apr 29 2006, 04:10 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Braden Dar @ Apr 29 2006, 04:10 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I've just been cruising the Wookiepedia and stalking...er, I mean investigating all sorts of ships. Especially diving into the whole Executor-class and Super-class of Star Destroyers. [/b]
The Executor class ships have been commonly called Super Star Destroyers. The Ellipse is something bigger and better.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Victory_I-c..._Star_Destroyer (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Victory_I-class_Star_Destroyer)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-..._Star_Destroyer (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eclipse-cla...tar_Dreadnought (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eclipse-class_Star_Dreadnought)

There's almost too much information on the Wookieepedia site. The same thing can be listed under different names with different information.

<!--QuoteBegin-Braden Dar
I do see a need to alter the Wookiepedia's, and any other sources (starwars.com) listing of weapons and crew compliments for the larger of the classes. Both vessels boast the same numbers of crewers, passenger capacity and a few other (trivial) listings. If one ship is so much larger than the other, it would seem reasonable that it could/would hold more troops and need more hands to staff all the functions involved in running the vastly bigger machine. Just extra hands in engineering to run the various banks of engines would seem prudent. [/quote]
There's should be more crew for the bigger ships. But the newer ships are more efficient with the crew.

The old Katana dreadnoughts had a crew of ~16k normal (~9k skel, ~2.2k slave mode), while the Imp Star Destroyer required ~38k normal (~5000 min).
Much more higher density of crew for the older ship. See size comparison here.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dreadnaught...s_heavy_cruiser (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dreadnaught-class_heavy_cruiser)

Edit: Corrected numbers to normal crew, added link.

[Master Magnus]

Originally posted by Braden Dar+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Braden Dar)</div><div class='quotemain'>I do see a need to alter the Wookiepedia's, and any other sources (starwars.com) listing of weapons and crew compliments for the larger of the classes. Both vessels boast the same numbers of crewers, passenger capacity and a few other (trivial) listings. If one ship is so much larger than the other, it would seem reasonable that it could/would hold more troops and need more hands to staff all the functions involved in running the vastly bigger machine. Just extra hands in engineering to run the various banks of engines would seem prudent. [/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-James Darklighter
There's should be more crew for th ebigger ships. But the newer ships are more efficient with the crew. The old Katana dreadnoughts had a crew of ~9000, while the Imp Star Destroyer required ~5000.
Quoted post
[/quote]
5,000 is just for a skeleton crew, right? Otherwise the crew complement for an ISD is ~38,000.

[Jeff Darklighter]

Originally posted by Master Magnus+Apr 30 2006, 02:07 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Master Magnus @ Apr 30 2006, 02:07 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-James Darklighter
There's should be more crew for th ebigger ships. But the newer ships are more efficient with the crew. The old Katana dreadnoughts had a crew of ~9000, while the Imp Star Destroyer required ~5000.

5,000 is just for a skeleton crew, right? Otherwise the crew complement for an ISD is ~38,000.
[/b][/quote]
Right, looked in the wrong place. ISD used a normal crew of 38K. The normal crew size for the old Katana dreadnoughts was 16K. Much more crew per voume for the older ship.

[csr74]

Well, the reduction in crew size is normal, it even happens with warships right now, an old Washington type heavy cruiser would require about 1,000 sailors (pendimg on the class), and a Ticonderoga of about the same size needs a lot less (and it´s much more capable).

But going back to the thing, if i recall well, the Sovereign was 15,800 meters long and the Eclipse 17,500...or that´s changed too? :banghead:


PS. When i talked about a revison of the Wookiepedia, i was meaning that i should take another look at it.

[Braden Dar]

I know a lot of the Executor-class SD's were commonly mistaken for the Super-class. For instance, the Lusankya is called a Super Star Destroyer in Isard's Revenge, though we know it is in the Executor-class. Therefore, we can know that many of the ships from both classes are commonly referred to as Super Star Destroyers.
This can still be a topic of great dispute...however, I am now very comfortable in the "fact" that their are very likely the two different classes. And that ships of both classes are usually called Super Star Destroyers.
The Executor-class is 19,000 meters long from bow to stern, the Executor being the namesake of the entire class; and the Lusankya and Iron Fist are more likely than not in this class as well.
The Super-class is 8,000 meters long from bow to stern, and features a number of vessels itself, though the specifics on which vessels belong in the class can be greatly disputed. Was Knighthammer in this class? Or Guardian? These are matters of which the authors of the novels and the folks at LFL can decide...at their leisure.

As to the earlier matter of the larger Executor-class having the same number of crew as the smaller Super-class, I believe that the numbers are mistaken. I think the Executor's had a larger crew demand than the Super's. Whether the Super's crew demand is actually smaller than the listed number, or if the Executor's should be larger than the listed number, I do not know.
I think the Super's should be about 125,000 crew members (or there abouts) and the Executor's should be around that 275,000 crew member mark.
Think about it...the ImpStar's need about 38,000 crewers and are 1/5 the size of the SSD. That would make the number around 190,000 crewers if you simply multiply by five. But as you said, Darklighter and Master Magnus, the crew needs would likely go down as the technology improved and more things could made automated.
With that, the ESD's could reasonably run a crew of 300,000 and still be less per meter of ship than the SSD's. (The number comes out, roughly, to 450,000 crewers.) So the ESD's could have a crew need of 275,000 and be well under the mark set forth by the ISD's. This gives us a good way to look at the matter and decide, mostly on our own feelings and opinions, what the right number should be.

And again, I feel comfortable standing on this position. If other information comes to life, please post it here and let us dissect it thoroughly. Mwahahahahahahaha!!!

[Master Magnus]

^The ships of the Executor-class Star Dreadnought-class (colloquy known as Super Star Destroyers) are all 19,000 meters in length.

[Braden Dar]

I know that...that's what I said, isn't it? ;)

Anyway, whether you wish to refer to them as Star Dreadnought or Star Destroyer, the concept remains the same. And the ESD's and SSD's are always being confused for the same class of ship...which they are not. No one would get confused about the ISD's and VSD's. But the Empire, it is said, deliberately spread mis-information to confuse people about the ESD's and SSD's. Obviously, it worked all too well.

And since we all seem to have come to an agreement on the topic...lets do our little happy dance... :happydance:

[csr74]

I´m Ok with the crew figures you suggest there, Braden Dar, though the rest is still confusing me... :banghead: Then the one we see in ESB is an Executor and the one we see in ROTJ is a Super?

Now, let´s talk about the Dianoga....

[Braden Dar]

Actually, csr74, the one we see in both Ep V and Ep VI is the same one...its the flagship of the Executor-class, and the namesake. Its really simple if you have read a good handful of the stories covering the vastly large starships.
First, we know that when the Executor was built (at Fondor, presumably) a sister ship was constructed that was supposed to bear the same name. This allowed the Empire to build two of them and no one knew for sure what had actually happened. The second one built was Lusankya.
We also know of a number of other ships having been built during the height of the Empire...ships such as Iron Fist, originally named Brawl or Brawler. That original name is sort of a matter of dispute.

If the moderators will allow me, I'll copy over a bit from the wookiepedia...including the actually web address of the page in reference.

wookiepedia's Super Star Destroyers info page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Star_Destroyer)

Named Examples
Aggressor — Admiral Roek's flagship was stationed in the Inner Rim region prior to the Battle of Endor. Later, it was recalled to Corellia to protect the Corellian Engineering Corporation shipyards. It is believed to have been destroyed during a fratricidal battle between warlord Imperial factions, when it collided with a torpedo sphere at the Battle Of Tralus. Grand Admiral Pitta used a torpedo sphere to defend the planet Tralus from Grand Admiral Grunger's entire fleet of 30 Star Destroyers, 60 Strike Cruises and 100 Carrack Cruisers, until Grunger rammed the Aggressor into Pitta's sphere killing them both.
Executor — The lead ship of its class and the only such vessel featured in the movies. This ship was the first ship of its type, built at the Fondor Shipyards. Executor was involved in the siege of Hoth in The Empire Strikes Back, and the Battle of Endor in Return of the Jedi. The ship was destroyed by the Rebel Alliance during the Battle of Endor, colliding with the second Death Star after its bridge was destroyed by Arvel Crynyd's crashing A-wing fighter, along with many of the Imperial Navy's finest officers. There is some irony in this, as the Executor was designed by Lira Wessex, and the A-Wing that caused its loss was designed by Walex Blissex, her father.
Guardian — This ship was stationed in the Core regions and was the flagship of Fleet Admiral Gaen Drommel, who (like many high-ranking Imperial officers) turned to warlordism after the death of Emperor Palpatine. Three years after the Battle of Endor, the ship was severely damaged in battle with the nascent New Republic. She was captured by the New Republic some ten years later, apparently in poor condition and was eventually repaired. Guardian saw operational service in the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, and became a Galactic Alliance command-ship/mobile base.
Intimidator — Originally assigned to Black Sword Command together with two other anonymous "Super Star Destroyers", Intimidator was rechristened Pride of Yevetha and pressed into service for the Duskhan League after the Yevethan revolt at the Black Fifteen shipyards over N'zoth. It was later reacquired by subjugated human crewmen during a revolt. Intimidator eventually came to rest as a heavily-damaged derelict somewhere in the galactic core.
Iron Fist — This ship was the flagship of Warlord Zsinj's fleet. It was the symbol of the warlord's power, and he used it to terrorize worlds into submission. Iron Fist was reported destroyed at Selaggis, but was later found intact and still in Zsinj's service at his primary shipyard over the planet Dathomir. Iron Fist was soon destroyed during a battle over Dathomir between his fleet and the Hapan Navy, when the Millennium Falcon fired two concussion missiles into the bridge. Originally named HIMS Brawl, and renamed by Zsinj after his first command, a Victory-class Star Destroyer.
Knight Hammer — Seeing the inefficiencies of the Emperor's heirs, Admiral Daala murdered most of the warlords who had risen to power after the fall of the Empire. Consolidating command over the remaining Imperial military, Daala took command of the Night Hammer, which had been built in secret by one of the murdered warlords, Supreme General Delvardus, and renamed it to Knight Hammer in preparation for the attack on Luke Skywalker's Jedi academy on Yavin 4. Different than most Star Destroyers, the Knight Hammer was entirely black. It also had stealth technology, emitting no outward light and reducing its sensor cross section. During the attack on the Jedi academy, the Knight Hammer fell victim to sabotage by ex-Jedi Knight Callista when she was able to sabotage the engines by pointing all TIE bombers at the rear hangar bay (at the bulkhead by the engines). They fired their missiles, breaking through the bulkhead and heavily damaging the engines; the vessel was subsequently destroyed when it was pulled into Yavin's gravity well, but not before Admiral Daala evacuated the crew.
Lusankya — This was the sister-ship of the Executor. Both ships were built at the same time at separate facilities, both under the name of Executor. When they were completed, one went on to become the ship seen in the movies, the other was renamed Lusankya and somehow ended up buried under the surface of Coruscant, capital of the Empire. The method Emperor Palpatine used to hide the Lusankya's existence is unknown, but fans have speculated he must have either used the Force to erase the memories of the ship's builders, or ordered the deaths of millions and an extraordinary cover-up. (The book where this was revealed toyed with both of the possibilities, though seemed to lean towards the Force.) Lusankya was given to Ysanne Isard, who used it to flee Coruscant after it was conquered by the New Republic using repulsors installed on the ship to leave the atmosphere. The ship was eventually captured by Wedge Antilles over Thyferra, and became a vessel in the New Republic's fleet. Under orders of Mon Mothma, Lusankya was decommissioned, but was reactivated some years before the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. She was finally destroyed around 25 years after the Battle of Endor, when it was sent on a suicide mission to ram a Yuuzhan Vong Worldship.
Pride of Yevetha — See Intimidator (see above for brief outline or hyperlink for dedicated page)
Razor's Kiss — Although it was built for the Empire by Kuat Drive Yards, this ship was never commissioned in service to the Empire. When it was nearly completed, a commando force sent by Warlord Zsinj took control of it, and began fighting their way out of the shipyards. When the ships stationed there moved to intercept it, Warlord Zsinj brought in his fleet, led by another Executor-class ship named Iron Fist, to protect it until they jumped out of the system. Unfortunately for Zsinj, one member of his commando forces was a spy dispatched by the New Republic's Wraith Squadron, who destroyed the shield generators and planted a program in the ship's computers that told the New Republic's fleet the location it escaped to. Razor's Kiss was destroyed by the New Republic before ever seeing a real battle. Its remains were recovered and became the Second Death, which Warlord Zsinj used to fool the New Republic into thinking the Iron Fist was destroyed at Selaggis.
Reaper — Originally the flagship of Grand Moff Governor Ardus Kaine, it was eventually acquired by Admiral Pelleaon after consolidating Kaine's former holdings (the Pentastar Alignment) into the Imperial Remnant. Reaper was destroyed in combat with the New Republic.
Terror — The flagship of Admiral Sarn as part of Grand Admiral Martio Batch's Project Phantom at Immdar Alpha involving the mass-use of stygian crystal cloaking devices on V38 assault fighters. Rebel agents managed to use a single fighter to damage key components of HIMS Terror. The ship was destroyed, along with the Immdar Alpha facility and the majority of Project PHANTOM.
Vindictive — Flagship of Grand Admiral Harkelan, used to launch full-scale war in the Core Systems in order to reassert control over the Imperial factions. The ship was an altered Executor - class ship, capable of conducting entire planetary invasions. The ship was thought to be destroyed, but evidence points to the fact that the ship made a blind hyperspace jump, and may be in the Outer Rim Territories.
Vengeance — Admiral Senn's flagship in the suppression of the lawless Airam sector. She was eventually destroyed in a battle with out-gunned Rebel forces when Rogue squadron and the Rebels managed to destroy the shields with several Dreadnaughts on suicide runs, then rammed the Vengeance's bridge with the Airam corvette Thunder. The Rebels fired heavy rockets at the heavily-damaged ship, destroying it.
Whelm — This ship was flagship of the Azure Hammer Command in Sector Zero, the Imperial Center Oversector, containing the capital of the Empire. Leading a fleet of fifty-seven capital ships, Whelm served as the personal flagship of Grand Admiral Osvald Teshik.
[edit]
Anonymous Examples
Two Anonymous Black Sword "Super Star Destroyers" — In addition to the captured HIMS Intimidator, there were two additional Super Star Destroyers indicated to be of the same class deployed within Black Sword Command, but not ensconced at the shipyard of Black Fifteen that was seized by Yevethan partisans. It is possible that one or both of these ships was retained/obtained by the Imperial Remnant sometime after the Armistice, and could possibly be the unknown-name "Super Star Destroyer" present at Bastion in "Destiny's Way" (speculation on this craft is discussed below), however, their eventual fate is unknown and undocumented.
Anonymous Executor-class at the Fondor Shipyards (partially constructed) — During the film era of the Galactic Civil War, Rogue Squadron used captured TIE hunters to infiltrate an Imperial construction yard at Fondor and destroy the cloaking devices protecting an under-construction vessel of the Executor-class. It was destroyed when all three cloaking devices were destroyed by the alliance fighters, creating a chain reaction that destroyed the ship.
[edit]
Presumed Examples
Defiant?/Stalwart? — Limitations on the resources available to the Imperial Remnant, and a poor economy ended production of ships larger than the 600 meter long Vindicator-class until around the time of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, where one, presumably Executor-class, ship was commissioned in the Imperial Starfleet. This ship may be HIMS Defiant or the HIMS Stalwart (not to be confused with Grand Admiral Thrawn's famous Victory-class Star Destroyer Stalwart) as seen in Force Heretic I: Remnant at the Battle of Borosk.
The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels implies that following the end of the Galactic Civil War, a small number of "Super Star Destroyers" of unspecified class were brought back into Imperial hands by unreconstructed Imperial units and former ex-Imperial warlords. Some of these unknown ships may be of the Executor-class.

This is, of course, just a listing of the known and believed Executor-class Star Dreadnought (as Master Magnus has pointed out, its not a destroyer, but a dreadnought...there is a difference from certain points of view).
I'll research this Dianoga and get back to you on the matter. :D

[Master Magnus]

^That's a very good summary. Perhaps you should edit it into paragraphs (it would make it easier to read).

[csr74]

Thanks a lot, Braden Dar , it´s in fact much more than i asked for. :)

This info actually makes one wonders things like, why do people insist in throwing ships to the Executors? :lol:

I agree the name Dreadnought suits much better to this kind of vessel (or Star-Battleship, if you want a change)...makes me wonder what GL did in the USN, because when he devises a SF Universe, Destroyers are bigger than Cruisers. :but: :blink: :shocked:

This Dianoga is a fighter i found lurking in the Wookiepedia, it looked interesting.

[Braden Dar]

I typed Dianoga in the search tool on wookiepedia and it said it couldn't find a match. Hmm...it said the same thing about Adumar, but the Starfighters Of Adumar listing was just fine as a book, and the name appears in their list of planets, so I could find another way to locate it, I guess.

And Magnus, I just cut and pasted in a hurry about the SSD's...sorry. I didn't have the time available to make it as pretty as I would have liked. I'll try to do better in the future, I promise.

:yoda:

[Braden Dar]

On a different topic...

I would absolutely love to get my hands on some pics of the Adumari Blade-32. I know the novel (Starfighters Of Adumar) depicted them as slow and sluggish. And that they had some much different instrumentation.
I'd take one and do some extensive modifications to it to bring it up to NR/Imperial standards. But I would need to see one to make sure I would really want one.
Anyone able to help on this matter.

[Braden Dar]

Found a link for info on the Blade-32's, but no picture. Here's the wookiepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blade-32_superiority_fighter) link.

[csr74]

You can easily find the Dianoga in the Starfighters category of the Wookiepedia, and it has a picture, too.

Hmmm, it seems you want to make something like the Virago with the Blade-32...would like to see that.

EDIT: I´ve found a picture of it just typing "adumari blade-32" in Google (searching images, of course).

[Braden Dar]

Thanks csr74, I'll give it a look. That goes for both items of interest.


[Edit] I looked on wookiepedia and still can't find this Dianoga. If you have a direct link to it, or can tell precisely what info you entered for your search, perhaps I'll have better luck.

[csr74]

Well , to find the Dianoga i just typed "starfighters" in the search space of the Wookiepedia and obtained some results related with the starfighters, one of them is the Category:Starfighters in the Wookiepedia, and once you get there, there´s a list of all the models (in the bottom part of the page), and it´s listed under the D.

[Braden Dar]

Will try again. Thanks. I'll report back in when I have something to report.

[Braden Dar]

I found that Blade-32. Here's a sketch drawing...
[attachmentid=16881]

...and I found an image of this Dianoga, but on a different site. I'm still looking for more info on it.

[Edit] Here's a link to one site's Dianoga info...<link type object> (http://www.swrpgnetwork.com/entry.php?id=1124)

[csr74]

Well, the info on the Dianoga that i found in the Wookiepedia was more or less the same as what you´ve got in that link. Even the picture is the same. As a curiousity, most of the specifications are for gameplaying and not the actual figures (no MGLT, SBD and MTU and so on). The same goes with the Blade-32. By the way, may i suggest installing a couple of Event Horizon thrusters in your upgraded craft? Just to get a bit more speed... :ohhlala:

[Braden Dar]

I kind of liked the notes for rpg'ing the craft. I used to play (and still have in my possession) a number of the West End Games 2nd Edition stuff for Star Wars. I could get a better feel for what the vehicles/ships are capable of because I can match them up against other info...say for the XWing. So the Blades are slightly slower than a YWing, but still faster than a BWing. They have no shields, but an extra tough hull. Their lasers are pretty good, but their missiles need an extensive upgrade.
I think there's enough room on one of them for a shield generator. And we could equip them with proton torpedoes...that means likely having less of them, but packing a bigger punch with each one. Plus there might be an inkling of extra space for the other mods they would need.

[csr74]

I see. But, for non-players like me, it´s not very clear. And how fast would be the Dianoga in comparison to other fighters? Just to make me an idea...

I may sound as a speed fanatic*, but i tend to think that more powerful sublight engines should be a priority (Okey, along with the shield generator)...what about a pair of micro-thrusters in the wingtips? To increase maneuvravility, i mean.


*: Even in real world, i once suggested putting the EFA Typhoon engines to the A/F-18...

[Braden Dar]

In comparison to other craft, the Dianoga would be noticeably slower than a YWing, but equal to a BWing. It is equivalent to an AWing in its hull strength and its shields. And is less manuverable than almost any other fighter in the Rebel Alliance. The BWing is just slightly more manuverable than this Dianoga...but just barely.
Its weapons are okay. The laser cannons are strong (fire linked fours that match the XWing's) but have poor fire control to assist in targeting. The ion cannon is a top notch item. Its strong and punishing, though it too lacks in fire control. As a comparison:
Bwing
Space (or speed in a vacuum): 6
Hull: 3D
Shields: 2D
Manuverability: 1D+1
Weapons:
Ion Cannon
Fire Control: 4D
Damage: 4D

Dianoga
Space: 6
Hull: 2D+2
Shields: 1D
Manuverability: 1D
Weapons:
Ion Cannon
Fire Control: 1D
Damage: 6D
4 Laser Cannons (can be fire-linked)
Fire Control: 1D+1
Damage: 6D

XWing
Space: 8
Hull: 4D
Shields: 1D
Manuverability: 3D
Weapons
4 Laser Cannons (can be fire-linked)
Fire Control: 3D
Damage: 6D

So here's a good overview of the differences and similarities between these fighters. The die codes are for 6 sided die, one being used as a "wild" dice. Its usually a different color from the rest so it can spotted in the jumble of numbers.
You roll all your die at once, add up the totals, and if your wild dice comes up 6 you add it in and roll again with that die. You can continue rolling this die as long as it keeps coming up as a 6.
If it comes up as a 1, the "GM", or gamemaster, gets to decide if the roll goes as rolled, or if you suffer a complication. Sometimes its a system failure. Perhaps the laser cannon melted itself or exploded. Sometimes, as in astrogation charting and hyperspace travel, you may wind up flying right into a supernova. Usually the GM doesn't get that crazy. Its usually a simple system problem that the character(s) must overcome to continue in their adventure.
If you have further questions, feel free to ask. I won't consider a question to be "stupid." I remember when I knew nothing of the die code system...

[csr74]

Thanks for the info. It makes thing more clear. Then, this 1D means you roll the dice once, and 2D would be roll the dice twice? And the 1D+1 means you roll the dice once and add one point to the total you´ve obtained from the dice?

About the craft itself...let me see, slow and lacking maneuvravility, not particularly strong in hull and shields, and with poor fire control...it will need and extensive (and costly) overhaul...did i mentioned the thrusters of the A-Wing? This will need four...and microthrusters in the wingtips...

How about your Blade-32?

[Braden Dar]

Originally posted by csr74@May 12 2006, 07:06 AM
Thanks for the info. It makes thing more clear. Then, this 1D means you roll the dice once, and 2D would be roll the dice twice? And the 1D+1 means you roll the dice once and add one point to the total you´ve obtained from the dice?

About the craft itself...let me see, slow and lacking maneuvravility, not particularly strong in hull and shields, and with poor fire control...it will need and extensive (and costly) overhaul...did i mentioned the thrusters of the A-Wing? This will need four...and microthrusters in the wingtips...

How about your Blade-32?
Quoted post


Yes to the +1 question. But instead of rolling one die over and over, you roll lots of die at once, with one being the wild die. So if you have 4D+1 and you roll a 2,4,5,and 2 with your wild die...your total would be 14.
I have to run for the moment, but I'll be back later to answer the second part of your query.

[Braden Dar]

I'm back. I was on the "Internet Cafe" at work, and my break came to an untimely end.

As for my Blade-32, an extensive overhaul would be required to bring it up to what I consider a good quality starfighter.

I It lacks the speed to fit into "space superiority fighter" and lacks the shielding and weapons punch to fit "bomber" or "assualt fighter". Its more of a mid-grade fighter craft. To change this I would first want to increase pilot survivability by adding shields. The shield generators would need space, and the Blade-32 has enough room to make it fit. I might need to make some room by taking up some missile storage space. I am relatively certain that I could replace the missile launchers with proton torpedo launchers and replace the 12 missiles carried to a more standard 6 torpedos. Hopefully that would fill my needs for shield space...now for shield type.
II I would scavenge a shield generator (or two) off an XWing. I'm sure there are a few XWings thrown in a military dump of some kind. I'd place them in the previously mentioned space I had freed up, and route all the necessary controls and power to them. Even if it was one shield generator unit, it would be better than none at all.
III Weapons...I touched on it in I, but I'll say it again. Proton torpedos would be a must. Dual launchers and three torpedos per launch tube. As for the lasers, they're alright. Two lasers being fire linked to the front arc with pretty good punch and two more facing the rear firing arc to cover the fighters tail are a solid, though not overwhelming, weapon. It makes it at least lethal as a TIE or AWing, but is a more sturdy craft that can take more abuse. Of course, fire control would need improving to make it easier for the pilot to nail his target without having to strain himself to get a lock all alone. So a better computer system would be required. Again, why not scavenge from an XWing? Their combat computers are pretty good, and Alliance/New Republic pilots would not need to adjust for a different system tracking in a different scheme.
IV The need for speed. The thrusters need an amazing amount of upgrade. I would need to find a reliable, almost custom built thruster package to accomadate my desires. I don't require the fastest fighter in the galaxy. Merely one that holds its own against most other fighter craft. I'm not sure I could say something like "why not take the thrusters off an XWing?" I'm trying to make this fighter something of its own, not just a copycat of the XWing in a new shell. Whoever would be helping in this endevour (whether it be the NR or a private group) would likely have to manufacture a brand new thruster package designed for this fighter. In gaming terms, something that pushed the fighter into the 8's or 9's for space flight, with a comparible atmosphere speed.
V Manuvering the Blade-32 becomes a must in any dogfight. Just because you could stand there and take a beating doesn't mean you should stand there and take one. Microthrusters for manuvering in space and better elevators and such for atmospheric flight. For this, something could be scavenged from a larger craft (like a light freighter or small transport) so that the micros; tuned to push a larger, heavier craft; could be used for a notably lighter craft. I certainly wouldn't want the micros from an AWing...they wouldn't be strong enough to turn the Blade.
VI Updating the entire sensor and display system comes in to play. When pilots are used to calling things out by "clicks", or kilometers, it would cause confusion to adjust to a measurement devised by some long dead perator. And they would want the familiar feel of the IFF (Identify, Friend or Foe) to take into battle with them. The Blades showed ineptness in identifying multiple targets are longer distances. Only when the craft got much closer did the system register them as individual fighters.

I think that just about covers most of it. Of course the Blades I would be modifying/upgrading would already be hyperdrive equipped. The only mods there would be faster hyperdrives.

[Edit] Hey, have you considered enlisting in the EUDF? If you haven't, why don't you stop by the EUDF Hangar Bay and check it out. Start at the first page and go through the charter...maybe we'll get to be wingmen.

[csr74]

Once again, thanks a lot for the info. It´s very interesting.

Going into the Blade-32, all that seems like a big amount of credits to me, well , at least the parts that aren´t scrapped from an X-Wing. And to get the spare parts you should fend off some Ugly-builders like pirates and so on, but the result no doubt would be worth the effort.

My Dianoga would need a very similar overhaul.

[Braden Dar]

I know what you mean. It takes a lot of credits to remanufacture something like this, but it may cost more to buy an already existing craft like an XWing or a newer EWing.
A YWing would be cheap enough to buy but it is a familiar target and opponents know how to exploit it.
The Adumari are, evidentally, building Blade models that are up to NR/Imperial standards. I hope to hear something more from the internet about that.

[csr74]

Now , that last thing seems a good idea, and quite inevitable.

About the reconstruction/overhaul of my Dianoga i´ve thought of this: the craft is slow and with poor maneuvravility, the shields and armour aren´t exactly the best and the fire control system is poor. The idea is to make a workable heavy fighter, as in the attack role, it would be very hampered by the lack of torpedo launchers. I think that the wings are a major factor here, in my opinion, they don´t have enough internal space to accomodate any launchers, and the possibility to install some payload under the wings is dubious, because the wings may fold backwards (otherwise, how would it be possible to land?).

So , here we go:

1) Installing a better fire control system.

2) New sublight engines. Wether they could be those of another craft (an A-Wing?) or a custom model i don´t know. Possibly the last in order not to modify the hull too much seems advisable.

3) Micro thrusters in the wingtips.

4) New shield generators.

Possible add-ins:

5) Reinforcements and armour plating in the hull.

6) ECM suite. A god jammer seems useful. From an A-Wing?

All spare parts can be obtained from scrapped X-Wings, apart from the micro thrusters, which, as you´ve suggested should come from a heavier craft.


About the joining the EUDF, well, thanks for the offer, i´ll check the thread. :cheers:

[Braden Dar]

With both of our ideas comes the obvious need to throw lots of credits into something that may not work with a squat. If Han and Lando had seen the future and planned out all of the things that would be needed for the Falcon, its possible that they would have sold the ship early on.
All the mods I can think of and all I'd really need to do is reinforce the hull of an XWing and go with an upgraded set of Incom thrusters, which they came out with at some point. They went from space of 8 to space of 10 (I believe). That would make them a new consideration for the opposition to think of.

Oh, and I'm not so big on jammers. Just using your own sensors or comm equipment can jam a ship for awhile...until they figure the exactings they need for countering the jam. But by then, their attention would have been diverted enough to allow for a good kill.

[csr74]

Yes, it´s a good deal of money, and lots of work too. But somehow i can´t refrain myself from trying...and even an X-Wing might deserve some modifications...What about installing eight thrusters? Well, i remember the last models of X-Wing were nearly as fast as the A-Wing, but that seems very common lately.

About jammers, the A-Wing had one, useful against fighters , but not against capital ships...it´s curious, the whole jamming and intercept suites aren´t very common in the SWU, and i think they might have come up with something...

[elelohesterling]

Outbound flights design was awesome

[csr74]

Do you mean the Dreadnaughts or are you referring to something else?

[Braden Dar]

He may be referring to the Chu'unthor. The particular ship the Jedi used to travel the galaxy and seek out new Jedi and beings to bring into the galactic fold.

And I suppose its time to throw out the idea of building my own starfighter. I'll just keep popping off blasts from an XWing. Hoo-Rah!

[csr74]

I see. On the other hand i´ve heard of a Morningstar at a very interesting price...a real bargain, it only needs a few modifications...

[matthius]

cool the Chu'unthor is in Outbound Flight? I havent got enough funds :( to buy the book yet but I've read about the Chu'unthor (STAR WARS Essential guide to vehicles and vessels), it's so cool, gotta get Outbound Flight though......maybe I'll get it from the library then buy it....oh well.

[Anguirus111]

I think you misunderstood, the Chu'unthor only appeared in The Courtship of Princess Leia and even then as a wreck. The thing was trashed 400 years or so prior to Outbound Flight when it crashed into Dathomir. If it appeared in OFP, it was probably just a passing reference.

[Braden Dar]

Sorry, Anguirus...I haven't read OFP. I've only caught bits of info from various places. I'll go back to my corner and shut up now. LOL

csr, send me a link to the webpage for this Morningstar.

[csr74]

I found it in the same place you found the info on the Dianoga, just going backwards, to the "stats" section. There you get all the entries in alphabetical order, and i started lurking into it. It seems like the Dianoga in its capabilities but with a proton torpedo launcher instead of the ion cannon, and only three lasers.

[Braden Dar]

Alright. I'll give it a review some time soon.

[Braden Dar]

Okay...I've looked it over and I am struck by the way authors and game-creators can come up with something weak, but call it an anti-capital ship fighter. Its hull is no stronger than an AWing, its shields aren't that great, and its weapons would have great difficulty going up against a capi