Can Star Wars Be Considered a Religion?

[Shadow Jedi Rhyro]

I recently read somewhere that in Australia approximately 70,000 people when asked about there religion on a census wrote in Jedi. The Australian government was quite discerned about the whole thing and has even threatened legal measures. So this begs the question: Can Star Wars be considered a religion? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[bodhisattva yoda]

with its millions of zealous worshippers? i think so.

[JediBendu]

It was more like 250 000. The Australian Bureau of Statistics threatened $1000 dollar fines for anyone who did. It's a mater of classification, Wica and Satanism can come under Other Religions when answering the Religion question. Because it hasn't been approved by another International Classification system, if you had put it down, it was lumped into the category of Inadequately Defined. There were 320 000 people who are classified as Inadequately Defined in terms of their religious beliefs. It beat all Lutherians, Jehovas, Mormons, 7th Day Adventists combined.
I've been palmed off onto this Int. Classification document, to which apparently all I need to do is apply with sufficient justification. I tried applying to the ABS for a re-classification based on their own definition of religion (which is loose to say the least) but because of all the media hype they just hand-balled me away. I have to actually purchase the Classification System for me to apply, which I haven't done yet - work's a ******* at the moment so I just haven't had time.
For any ozis in Bris Vegas - they keep a copy at the QUT library. Email me and I can give you the details. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

WE ARE JEDI!

[BlueSaber]

I say people can believe in whatever they want to believe in. I don't know about the Australian constitution but the South African one states that everyone has freedon of religeon (Or somethin like that) and that no one should be discriminated against be it because of race, colour or creed. I would kill if someone told me I couldn't be a Wicca and then tried to fine me 10 000 rands. But, thankfully, that's against the law.

GO JEDIS!!!

[JediBendu]

It was during our last census - anyone can practice whatever beliefs they want over here as well style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
It's just not being recognised as a belief system, when over quarter of a million people put it down as such.
Inadequately described my butt.

[Clara]

Who cares about fines! If one is Jedi, then they are Jedi. I'm Jedi. And Australian as it happens :p

[JediBendu]

To answer the original question: Can Star Wars be considered a religion - bloody oath mate!

[Master Jason]

File a class action suit on behalf of everyone who said they were Jedi. Get some signatures and see what happens

[STar war spUNK]

in each religion there is someone who you worship. in christianity it is God. in buddhism it is Buddha. if you were a jedi who would it be? yoda?

[bodhisattva yoda]

buddhists don't really worship buddha. buddha is sort of symbolic of like, nirvana and the buddhist way and all that. although some have falsly deified him.

anyway. it'd be the force that jedi's ''worship''...as for it's incarnation, i don't know if anakin would be exactly right for the job of spokesperson. maybe luke?

[STar war spUNK]

yeah i know. my mistake. (star wars quote. hehe) but i mean like there is one major person that means a lot, you know?

[JediBendu]

The Force!!!! I would have thought that would have been obvious.

I didn't realise this thread was started because of a CNN story. Which is completely bollux! I've got the original newspaper clippings with the real numbers.
I can't believe the ABS understated the real number of Jedi's in this country style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif

[Blizzard]

Jedi don't actually worship the Force, they follow it, listen to it and try to understand it.

[JediBendu]

Is there a difference?
They've based a Code, an Order and Institution around it.
But I agree - it isn't something you worship, as much as Buddhism doesn't worship anything, yet it's still considered a religion because it offers a set of principles to guide your life by.
The one thing I did get from the ABS, both in their response and their own definition, is that anything you believe in, if it's structured and has a sense of purpose/order, can be considered a religion.

[Master Jason]

So get it approved

[Rinc]

In the census in Britain last year you could be fined for putting down the wrong information except on the question on religion. A lot of people put Jedi including me, not sure of the exact number though.

[JediBendu]

So get it approved
I'm still unsure whether GL would want it this way - in 1000 years, we could be debating whether Han or Greedo shot first, in as much as the inclusion of filioque in the Credo is debated now.
Then again, it may have been his intention from the start style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[JediBendu]

::bump::

:yinyang:

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 20 2002, 05:42 AM
well i actually find taoism to be very interesting but i guess the main reason i don`t want to call jedi a religion is because it`s based on an "order" or what they call the "jedi order"

it`s portrayed in the movie as more of a political point of view rather than a philosophical point of view... i really don`t think you can say yoda was one member of a group of clergey. or can you say.. the entire jedi counsel is made up of jedi monks? they refer to themselves as "knights"

also the jedi`s don`t pray to any gods or deity. and another thing is the jedi had supernatural powers... this i think is another reason why you can`t call it a religion. these powers simply don`t exist.

but i think what you could call it is a way of life and/or philosophy. but if you want to call it a religion i don`t mind!

[Ieluuka]

Do you live in Brisbane JediBendu? About the religion thing - I think that anyone has the right to believe in what they want to believe, so if they think that the Jedi philosophy can be a religion, then thats fine. However, I think the line must be drawn somewhere. Star Wars becoming a religion whithin itself is pretty far-fetched (no offense to fanatics), after all, it is make-believe, and it is only a movie. But if that is what someone believes in, then no one can protest that.

[Luvinna.]

"Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped..."

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons..."

Even in Star Wars they call it a religion.

[Lonesabre]

Is there a web site or anything where you can find out about religous registrations? Being a Jedi would be sooooooo cool! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

In the UK census I put down Christian, although I have never actually been christened, so why couldnt other people put down Jedi if they wanted to?

I didnt find out until afterwards that other people had put Jedi down, otherwise I wouldve followed suite and done the same.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[STar war spUNK]

never been christened? what?

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@Sep 20 2002, 04:48 PM
Is there a web site or anything where you can find out about religous registrations? Being a Jedi would be sooooooo cool! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

In the UK census I put down Christian, although I have never actually been christened, so why couldnt other people put down Jedi if they wanted to?

I didnt find out until afterwards that other people had put Jedi down, otherwise I wouldve followed suite and done the same.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif
here`s a person that`s wants to be a "jedi" but thinks christians get christened?

out of curiosity, what are you talking about?

[JediBendu]

You can put down anything you want in the religious category - that's the point. Up to a quarter of a million people put down Jedi, yet anyone who did was categorised as having an 'Inadequately Described' religious belief. The ABS refuses to even recognise this - it's a huge percentage and dwarfs other orthodox variants as well as the more obscure cults.

Links for the ABS stats are half way down this page (http://www.galacticsenate.com/index.php?act=ST&f=19&t=129&st=775).


Originally posted by Ieluuka@Sep 20 2002, 03:37 PM
Do you live in Brisbane JediBendu?
ya - for my sinis I live in Bris Vegas style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by JediBendu+Sep 21 2002, 01:37 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JediBendu @ Sep 21 2002, 01:37 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>You can put down anything you want in the religious category - that's the point. Up to a quarter of a million people put down Jedi, yet anyone who did was categorised as having an 'Inadequately Described' religious belief. The ABS refuses to even recognise this - it's a huge percentage and dwarfs other orthodox variants as well as the more obscure cults.

Links for the ABS stats are half way down this page (http://www.galacticsenate.com/index.php?act=ST&f=19&t=129&st=775).


<!--QuoteBegin-Ieluuka@Sep 20 2002, 03:37 PM
Do you live in Brisbane JediBendu? [/b][/quote]
that`s a good point bendu! the religion has not been described unless you consider the films as a difinitive description???? ofcourse this would be a ludicrious statement!

i can see it now... a new book called 'the jedi way' or something like that?? all it`s going to be is a different version of taoism mixed in with some political views.

but i think it would be okay to come up with a religion based on the jedi order, but would it be a mistake to call it "the jedi order" or even to use the word jedi to describe it?

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 21 2002, 02:06 AM
the religion has not been described unless you consider the films as a difinitive description? ofcourse this would be a ludicrious statement!

I see no reason to consider it ludicrous. GL has said many times the film is that modern generation's mechanism for story telling. By being visual does that somehow negate it's effectiveness to transfer meaning? GL has tapped into a fundamental element of not only the human condition, but as to the nature of existence.
Essentially all the major religions are just stories trying to convey the same thing, all using the same mechanism to convey it. The only difference is the one's we blindly follow were written millenia ago, while GL's is here now. Would be having this conversation in a thousand years?

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by JediBendu+Sep 21 2002, 02:27 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JediBendu @ Sep 21 2002, 02:27 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-happyjedi@Sep 21 2002, 02:06 AM
the religion has not been described unless you consider the films as a difinitive description? ofcourse this would be a ludicrious statement!

I see no reason to consider it ludicrous. GL has said many times the film is that modern generation's mechanism for story telling. By being visual does that somehow negate it's effectiveness to transfer meaning? GL has tapped into a fundamental element of not only the human condition, but as to the nature of existence.
Essentially all the major religions are just stories trying to convey the same thing, all using the same mechanism to convey it. The only difference is the one's we blindly follow were written millenia ago, while GL's is here now. Would be having this conversation in a thousand years?[/b][/quote]
when i said it would be a ludicrous statement i meant the force in the movie is portrayed as some kind of supernatural power which unfortunetly doesn`t exist.

the people that start this religion will have to substitute this "power" with something else... just what that is, i`m not sure?

but i am sure they will come up with something! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Blizzard]

It's obvious you don't understand the Jedi, we do not need powers to be Jedi.

Do Christians need to walk on water to worship God?

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by Blizzard@Sep 21 2002, 07:20 PM
It's obvious you don't understand the Jedi, we do not need powers to be Jedi.

Do Christians need to walk on water to worship God?
i don`t think anyone understands it because it hasn`t been spelled out yet!

in order for it to be considered a religion it needs to be CLEARLY defined and ofcourse it hasn`t!!

[JediBendu]

Wasn't the old testament written before the new?

portrayed as some kind of supernatural power which unfortunetly doesn`t exist.

that can be applied to every major religion

considered a religion it needs to be CLEARLY defined

countless millions have been butchered by Christians over the millenia over the inclusion of 1 single word in the creed - filioque
definition is relative, depending on your point of view style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Sep 22 2002, 05:11 AM
Wasn't the old testament written before the new?

portrayed as some kind of supernatural power which unfortunetly doesn`t exist.

that can be applied to every major religion

considered a religion it needs to be CLEARLY defined

countless millions have been butchered by Christians over the millenia over the inclusion of 1 single word in the creed - filioque
definition is relative, depending on your point of view style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
you seem to be taking my comments the wrong way!

and yes christians have been known to commit bad crimes but as of today i don`t consider them as a major threat to society but i can`t say the same for muslims!

besides this conversation is about jedi as a new religion and not about other religions! let`s stick to the topic shall we!

bottom line... it hasn`t been spelled out and that`s why they couldn`t use jedi as their religion in that census poll!

[STar war spUNK]

star wars can't be considered a religion. that's like... ridiculous. its like watching harry potter and saying you're a wizard. no. i'm a very big fan of star wars, but i'm not going to go as far to say that its my religion. that's ridiculous.

[Ieluuka]

Originally posted by Blizzard@Sep 22 2002, 05:20 AM
It's obvious you don't understand the Jedi, we do not need powers to be Jedi.

Do Christians need to walk on water to worship God?
This is a very good point. It is frustrating when people immeadiatly say that you have to have Jedi Powers to be a Jedi. We don't. It is just the beliefs that we conduct ourselves by.

[Blizzard]

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 22 2002, 04:15 PM
and yes christians have been known to commit bad crimes but as of today i don`t consider them as a major threat to society but i can`t say the same for muslims!

besides this conversation is about jedi as a new religion and not about other religions! let`s stick to the topic shall we!

bottom line... it hasn`t been spelled out and that`s why they couldn`t use jedi as their religion in that census poll!
I don't think the Muslims would agree with you.

So religion doesn't exist unless there is a book spelling it out? Where is that spelled out?

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by Blizzard+Sep 23 2002, 02:25 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blizzard @ Sep 23 2002, 02:25 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-happyjedi@Sep 22 2002, 04:15 PM
and yes christians have been known to commit bad crimes but as of today i don`t consider them as a major threat to society but i can`t say the same for muslims!

besides this conversation is about jedi as a new religion and not about other religions! let`s stick to the topic shall we!

bottom line... it hasn`t been spelled out and that`s why they couldn`t use jedi as their religion in that census poll!
I don't think the Muslims would agree with you.

So religion doesn't exist unless there is a book spelling it out? Where is that spelled out?[/b][/quote]
but blizzard no one can explain in words what it means to be a jedi!

if i asked 2 people to describe their jedi religion i would get 2 different answers!

[Jamielee]

I agree with happy jedi, there's no reason for jedi not to be a religion, but it truly isn't clearly defined.

[Queen 'Onna]

Jedi is not a religion.They do not worship a god.

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by starwarspunk+Sep 22 2002, 09:31 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(starwarspunk @ Sep 22 2002, 09:31 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>its like watching harry potter and saying you're a wizard [/b]

<font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=blue)'>Magic Happens</font>

Wicca is considered a religion, I'm sure BlueSabre would agree that it deserves the classification.

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 23 2002, 06:29 PM
but blizzard no one can explain in words what it means to be a jedi!

From sw.com Databank: Jedi Order (http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thejediorder/index.html)

A noble order of protectors unified by their belief and observance of the Force, the Jedi hearken back to a more civilized, classical time in galactic history. Their order is ancient, spanning over a thousand generations. As the Galactic Republic throve and grew over the centuries, the Jedi came to serve it as guardians of peace and justice.

Apart from the obvious fact that this is an explanation, guardians of peace and justice, it's also from a reliable reference source. Any two people may have different views on what being a Jedi is all about, but they both can be pointed to the reference source that explains it to them both. How they interpret that is another question, but people have been debating the interpretations of most religious texts for centuries.
A similar question is what is the Force? I would luv to put it down to metaphysical clap trap but it's a lot more than that.

Originally posted by Queen 'Onna@Sep 24 2002, 12:48 AM
Jedi is not a religion.They do not worship a god.

By the same reasoning, Buddhism is not a religion. Yet a billion people world wide follow it. Buddhism itself is a new religion

<!--QuoteBegin-happyjedi@Sep 22 2002, 09:15 PM
besides this conversation is about jedi as a new religion and not about other religions[/quote]

which has stemmed from Hinduism. The Force is a modern adaptation on very Buddhist fundamentals, the most obvious is the removal of suffering from one's own life.

This board is a prime example of how and why it can be considered a religion - we fans quote lines from Star Wars as religious dogma!

'No, there is another' - yoda, esb

has caused as much controversy amongst fans, and Greedo shooting first is almost akin to Henry VIII creating the Protestant church from the Catholic, (which also split from orthodox)
Star Wars fans are debating profound metaphysical concepts which the average Jo Blo Public has no appreciation of, much less understanding.

and to throw you a b-line - why is Satanism categorised? Surely christians would want it removed? How can a belief based on evil and suffering be considered above the Force?
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/evil.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif :angel:

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by JediBendu+Sep 24 2002, 03:06 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JediBendu @ Sep 24 2002, 03:06 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by starwarspunk@Sep 22 2002, 09:31 PM
its like watching harry potter and saying you're a wizard

<font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=blue)'>Magic Happens</font>

Wicca is considered a religion, I'm sure BlueSabre would agree that it deserves the classification.

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 23 2002, 06:29 PM
but blizzard no one can explain in words what it means to be a jedi!

From sw.com Databank: Jedi Order (http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thejediorder/index.html)

A noble order of protectors unified by their belief and observance of the Force, the Jedi hearken back to a more civilized, classical time in galactic history. Their order is ancient, spanning over a thousand generations. As the Galactic Republic throve and grew over the centuries, the Jedi came to serve it as guardians of peace and justice.

Apart from the obvious fact that this is an explanation, guardians of peace and justice, it's also from a reliable reference source. Any two people may have different views on what being a Jedi is all about, but they both can be pointed to the reference source that explains it to them both. How they interpret that is another question, but people have been debating the interpretations of most religious texts for centuries.
A similar question is what is the Force? I would luv to put it down to metaphysical clap trap but it's a lot more than that.

Originally posted by Queen 'Onna@Sep 24 2002, 12:48 AM
Jedi is not a religion.They do not worship a god.

By the same reasoning, Buddhism is not a religion. Yet a billion people world wide follow it. Buddhism itself is a new religion

<!--QuoteBegin-happyjedi@Sep 22 2002, 09:15 PM
besides this conversation is about jedi as a new religion and not about other religions

which has stemmed from Hinduism. The Force is a modern adaptation on very Buddhist fundamentals, the most obvious is the removal of suffering from one's own life.

This board is a prime example of how and why it can be considered a religion - we fans quote lines from Star Wars as religious dogma!

'No, there is another' - yoda, esb

has caused as much controversy amongst fans, and Greedo shooting first is almost akin to Henry VIII creating the Protestant church from the Catholic, (which also split from orthodox)
Star Wars fans are debating profound metaphysical concepts which the average Jo Blo Public has no appreciation of, much less understanding.

and to throw you a b-line - why is Satanism categorised? Surely christians would want it removed? How can a belief based on evil and suffering be considered above the Force?
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/evil.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif :angel:[/b][/quote]
bendu- not trying to start a flame war but that decsription is insane!


"""Their order is ancient, spanning over a thousand generations. As the Galactic Republic throve and grew over the centuries, the Jedi came to serve it as guardians of peace and justice. """

this is ludicrous! if you`re guardians of peace and justice then you have to live by a code of ethics and morals. which are clearly not defined yet!


"""The Jedi dress in simple robes and carry specialized field gear for their missions. """

i bet you don`t even own a robe? much less special field gear!


""Jedi candidates are detected, identified and taken into the order as infants. One method of detection is through blood sampling"""

do i really need to make a comment about this?


anyways, i could go on and on about that description but i will end here!

i think if people are serious about making this a religion then someone needs to write a book on the subject and it needs to be a realistic interpretation of it!

otherwise it shouldn`t even be considered as a religion!

[JediBendu]

people have - it's why I'm arguing for it.
The mythos surrounding Star Wars (I'll refer soley to anh and no other film) is identical to the Jesus story, to Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Moses, Hercules just to name a few.
GL's mentor was Joseph Campell who's done a lot of work on common myths and the relation to the Jung's concept of archetype.
Star Wars is an exact rendition of the Hero's Journey.
The point is that all the world's religions are based on fanciful stories of miracles and myths, stemming from the collective unconscious of man.
Star Wars is no different.

[Ieluuka]

Well there is one slight difference, but it doesnt impact much on the issue. The stories that the established religions (like Christianity, Buddhism etc) are based on were written thousands of years ago. Star Wars however is just a blockbuster movie. Can you see the difference? Star Wars has no history behind it compared to the other stories.

[Luvinna.]

"""Their order is ancient, spanning over a thousand generations. As the Galactic Republic throve and grew over the centuries, the Jedi came to serve it as guardians of peace and justice. """

this is ludicrous! if you`re guardians of peace and justice then you have to live by a code of ethics and morals. which are clearly not defined yet!
Not defined, huh? Back to StarWars.com (http://www.starwars.com/databank/news/2001/06/news20010613.html) with you! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif And for those of you who don't want to go:

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

Plus, here are just a few quotes from the movies that I believe help define the "code of ethics and morals" the Jedi follow:
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack."
"Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is centeral to a Jedi's life."

"""The Jedi dress in simple robes and carry specialized field gear for their missions. """

i bet you don`t even own a robe? much less special field gear!
Do you have to have priestly robes to be considered a Catholic? And not all Jedi wear robes. Take Aayla Secure, for example.

""Jedi candidates are detected, identified and taken into the order as infants. One method of detection is through blood sampling"""

do i really need to make a comment about this?
I don't think people who want to claim Jedi as their religion honestly believe they have an aptitude for the Force. Maybe I'm wrong, and some do. I think most people just want something to use as an example of how to live their life and treat others. Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice; they go around helping people, and preventing wars (for the most part). I agree that the Jedi way of life is a pretty good example of how to live. One of the reasons I like SW so much.

i think if people are serious about making this a religion then someone needs to write a book on the subject and it needs to be a realistic interpretation of it!
Actually, there is a book. It's called The Science of Star Wars by Jeanne Cavelos. It not only talks about the planets, aliens, and technology, but also the philosophy and theory of the Force. A very interesting read.

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Sep 24 2002, 04:29 PM
"""Their order is ancient, spanning over a thousand generations. As the Galactic Republic throve and grew over the centuries, the Jedi came to serve it as guardians of peace and justice. """

this is ludicrous! if you`re guardians of peace and justice then you have to live by a code of ethics and morals. which are clearly not defined yet!
Not defined, huh? Back to StarWars.com (http://www.starwars.com/databank/news/2001/06/news20010613.html) with you! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif And for those of you who don't want to go:

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

Plus, here are just a few quotes from the movies that I believe help define the "code of ethics and morals" the Jedi follow:
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack."
"Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is centeral to a Jedi's life."

"""The Jedi dress in simple robes and carry specialized field gear for their missions. """

i bet you don`t even own a robe? much less special field gear!
Do you have to have priestly robes to be considered a Catholic? And not all Jedi wear robes. Take Aayla Secure, for example.

""Jedi candidates are detected, identified and taken into the order as infants. One method of detection is through blood sampling"""

do i really need to make a comment about this?
I don't think people who want to claim Jedi as their religion honestly believe they have an aptitude for the Force. Maybe I'm wrong, and some do. I think most people just want something to use as an example of how to live their life and treat others. Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice; they go around helping people, and preventing wars (for the most part). I agree that the Jedi way of life is a pretty good example of how to live. One of the reasons I like SW so much.

i think if people are serious about making this a religion then someone needs to write a book on the subject and it needs to be a realistic interpretation of it!
Actually, there is a book. It's called The Science of Star Wars by Jeanne Cavelos. It not only talks about the planets, aliens, and technology, but also the philosophy and theory of the Force. A very interesting read.
MORE NON-SENSE!

""It not only talks about the planets, aliens, and technology, but also the philosophy and theory of the Force.""

come on that book talks about SW aliens ???

i can already dismiss this as non-sense!

""I don't think people who want to claim Jedi as their religion honestly believe they have an aptitude for the Force. Maybe I'm wrong, and some do.""

okay so their can be 2 different interpretations of it?



""Do you have to have priestly robes to be considered a Catholic? And not all Jedi wear robes. Take Aayla Secure, for example.""

so not ALL jedi wear robes? what about you, do you wear a robe? again not a clear definition of jedi!



""""Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack."
"Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is centeral to a Jedi's life."""""

different philosophies have been saying this for years! they even taught this when i took karate! again jedi is just eastern philosophies in disguise. nothing really new here.


"""I agree that the Jedi way of life is a pretty good example of how to live. One of the reasons I like SW so much."""

i don`t disagree with this and i too enjoy SW but i think a few ambitious young kids are taking this jedi thing a little too far!

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by happyjedi+Sep 24 2002, 02:03 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(happyjedi @ Sep 24 2002, 02:03 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>... i think a few ambitious young kids are taking this jedi thing a little too far![/b]
Whoa! Wait a minute! ??? I thought this whole thread got started because people in Australia and Britain put "Jedi" down under religion on their census forms. As far as I know, "young kids" don't fill out census forms. Generally, it's the head of the household that fills them out, meaning the adults. It sounds like you're heading toward the whole "Harry Potter and kids playing wizard" debate, which is not what this is about, IMO.

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 24 2002, 02:03 PM
come on that book talks about SW aliens

i can already dismiss this as non-sense!
You should read the book before you dismiss it. It's a scientific, factual look at a non-factual universe. In the introduction, the author, who is an astrophysicist, asks the question, "How likely is this 'galaxy far, far away?'" Then she goes on that in 1977, the answer was "not very." Then she writes, (and I'm paraphrasing), "But a strange thing has happened in the years since. Science is starting to catch up with George Lucas." For example, it asks the question how could the planet Hoth be all one climate: freezing cold? And then uses modern science to explain that. The asteroid field is the key.

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 24 2002, 02:03 PM
different philosophies have been saying this for years! they even taught this when i took karate! again jedi is just eastern philosophies in disguise. nothing really new here.
I know the Jedi philosophy is just eastern philosopies in disguise. Just about everyone knows that GL took the philosophy of the Jedi from eastern religions. My point was that while there may not be a single book that contains all the philosophies clearly defined, you can find definitions in the movies and novels.

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 24 2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Luvinna@Sep 24 2002, 10:29 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-happyjedi@Sep 24 2002, 12:02 AM

"""The Jedi dress in simple robes and carry specialized field gear for their missions. """

i bet you don`t even own a robe? much less special field gear!

Do you have to have priestly robes to be considered a Catholic? And not all Jedi wear robes. Take Aayla Secure, for example.
so not ALL jedi wear robes? what about you, do you wear a robe? again not a clear definition of jedi! [/quote]
No, I don't own a Jedi robe (not yet, anyway; I plan on making one for Halloween this year style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif ). But I never claimed that Jedi was my religion. From your original post, it sounded to me like you were saying that in order to be a Jedi, you had to have a robe, and an aptitude for the Force. I was just trying to convey my opinion that I don't agree with that. Plus, there are a lot of characters in the Expanded Universe who follow the Jedi way, and yet have no talent for the Force at all.

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 24 2002, 02:03 PM
okay so their can be 2 different interpretations of it?
How many interpretations are there of Christianity? Islam? Judaism? Yes, everyone has their own way of interpreting a philosophy. After all, where else could the Sith have come from?
And I was really just joking when I said that maybe there are some people who believe they have an aptitude for the Force. And as I said before, I don't believe you have to have an aptitude for the Force to live as a Jedi.

I hope I don't seem to be arguing. It's not my intent. I think we're just misunderstanding each other's position and opinion. :yinyang:

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Sep 24 2002, 09:59 PM
And I was really just joking when I said that maybe there are some people who believe they have an aptitude for the Force.

I think Kevin Smith believes he's attune to the Force style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Originally posted by Ieluuka+Sep 24 2002, 10:15 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ieluuka @ Sep 24 2002, 10:15 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Star Wars however is just a blockbuster movie. Can you see the difference? Star Wars has no history behind it compared to the other stories. [/b]

It was because of Star Wars, the term 'blockbuster' was coined! SW does have a history, 30 years worth. It took Christianity a couple of hundred years before it became even remotely wide spread. Star Wars has a world wide following, numbering in the millions, all within a mere 30 years. What about in the next 50? I'll still be talking about it, watching the flicks with my kids, arguing over whether Greedo or Han shot first.

Originally posted by happyjedi@Sep 24 2002, 08:03 PM
come on that book talks about SW aliens
i can already dismiss this as non-sense!

We may have to address the issue of alien contact soon enough - I think a Jedi/Buddhist philosophy would be ideal as a representation of how humans interact, behave and respond to other beings and life in general.

<!--QuoteBegin-happyjedi@Sep 24 2002, 08:03 PM
again jedi is just eastern philosophies in disguise. nothing really new here [/quote]

I agree with you there, but does that invalidate the variation of eastern philosophy that GL is using? Protestants are just variants of Catholics, Christianity and Islam are just variants of Judeism etc etc

And I don't consider it just a variation - it's unique, both in content and delivery.

Question to all:

Did George Lucas intentionally set out to create a new age religious philosophy, in line with the modern age?
or
Did he work out after the success of the original Star Wars, that he could indeed create a new religion?

[Ieluuka]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Sep 25 2002, 02:51 PM
Question to all:

Did George Lucas intentionally set out to create a new age religious philosophy, in line with the modern age?
or
Did he work out after the success of the original Star Wars, that he could indeed create a new religion?
Neither! He set out to create a movie, a story that he came up with! The movie wasn't meant to be a sacred thing that people use for religion! And if you think that being a Jedi relates to the beliefs a Jedi has, when you think about it, those beliefs are traits of a good person anyway, just like what Christianity teaches, be good to everyone, do not kil....etc the Ten Commandments! There is not much use for a religion that teaches the same things that other religions do! I think that this whole thing is just a fantasy with the Star Wars universe, people wanting to be superhuman beings that do not exist in the real world! Can you imagine if you were applying for a job, and the guy who was assessing you was an anti-Star Wars bloke. Who would he choose between you, claiming to be a 'Jedi' or some other person who was Christian. He would probably think that you were insane! And if your rebuttle is that lots of peole actually like Star Wars, i would wager that 90% were not fanatics.

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by JediBendu+Sep 24 2002, 10:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JediBendu @ Sep 24 2002, 10:51 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Question to all:

Did George Lucas intentionally set out to create a new age religious philosophy, in line with the modern age?
or
Did he work out after the success of the original Star Wars, that he could indeed create a new religion?[/b]
It says on the box of my 15th Anniversary VHS set that GL was setting out to write a fairy tale for a generation growing up without fairy tales. I don't think he expected it to get any where near this big.

Originally posted by JediBendu@Sep 24 2002, 10:51 PM
I think Kevin Smith believes he's attune to the Force
Who's Kevin Smith?

<!--QuoteBegin-Ieluuka@Sep 25 2002, 12:29 AM
Can you imagine if you were applying for a job, and the guy who was assessing you was an anti-Star Wars bloke. Who would he choose between you, claiming to be a 'Jedi' or some other person who was Christian. He would probably think that you were insane! [/quote]
Yeah, he probably would. Except that religious discrimination is illegal. At least in this country it is. Don't know about Australia. Plus, I've never seen a job application that asks for your religious affiliation.

[Darth Vegas]

Christians claim to see visions, and speak in the tongues of angels, and heal, and prophesy, and all that sh*t.

So you Jedi, get drunk and high and do the same thing. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[JediBendu]

The movie wasn't meant to be a sacred thing that people use for religion!

and yet it employed the very same devices that all major religions have used in order for their version to be believed.
Powerful devices they are, tap into the universal unconscious they do.
I don't think I would consider someone insane but I'd be damn curious as to why the person I'm interviewing thinks he's a Jedi!

GL was setting out to write a fairy tale for a generation growing up without fairy tales. I don't think he expected it to get any where near this big

That's what I was alluding to with my question to all. Substitute 'fairytale' with 'mythic tale of a hero's quest' and you've got a story that resembles the equivalent hero quest stories that are documented in most religious texts.
But
After the success of Star Wars, GL knew he could expand upon the Hero archetype and create his own version for the modern age. I'd bet my last dollar that he had a chat with Jo Campbell about the ramifications of such a task (a responsibility reserved for the insane or megalomaniac), and with his advice, filled out ep5 and 6, knowing he'll eventually do ep1,2,3.

Who's Kevin Smith?

Clerks
Mall Rats
Chasing Amy
Dogma
Jake and Silent Bob Strike Back

He's a self confessed star wars geek that's somehow worked star wars into every movie he makes (not to mention Mark Hamill, Carrier Fisher and a double ended lightsaber that happens to also be a bong). The particular reference was in Mall Rats - I won't say what it is but Silent Bob (who is actually Kevin Smith) uses the Force in a way that explains the practical application of the Force for those who aren't attune to it.

dogma is his best.

[JediBendu]

So you Jedi, get drunk and high and do the same thing.

You wanna buy some death sticks? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Darth Vegas]

The most arrogant thing a person can say, is to say he/she's found God, or to say, his/her religion is the right one.

I can't stand when I hear that. Have you seen God? I ask. Do you know him, do you touch him, do you actually hear his vioce, where is he now?

Same thing goes with every religion, where is the proof?

So the conclusion: let people believe whatever they want to believe, and stop mixing church and state!!!!!!!

Look at the similarity here:

Christianity is based upon the best selling book of all time, and "Jedi" is based on the most popular movies of all time.

The real question is, who's got the most money in the "offering plate" greedy preacher man or George Lucas? :look:

Believe what you want, but always expect criticism. Are any of you willing to be prosecuted for your beliefs?

[Clara]

My article got published in my local paper. Reference to it on the front page.

[Luvinna.]

Congrats, Clara! That's great! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

[happyjedi]

i thought GL was an atheist? why would he want to be responsible for creating a new religion? i bet he hates the idea of people turning this into more than what it is!

Whoa! Wait a minute! I thought this whole thread got started because people in Australia and Britain put "Jedi" down under religion on their census forms. As far as I know, "young kids" don't fill out census forms.

i was being sarcastic! i was saying these "adults" are acting like kids!


It's a scientific, factual look at a non-factual universe.

you lost me with this??? can you explain how you can tell me facts about something that doesn`t exist?

For example, it asks the question how could the planet Hoth be all one climate: freezing cold? And then uses modern science to explain that. The asteroid field is the key.

asteroid field??? i think you mean asteroid belt? again it`s hard to pass something as fact when the evidence is weak! i suppose i would have to read the book myself and then draw a conclusion?


as i mentioned before i don`t care if jedi becomes an official religion however i don`t think it`s quite there yet but it`s on it`s way... just imagine for a moment 5000 years into the future and the jedi religion is so huge that people believe the storys in the "jedi book" are true... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Darth Vegas]

George Lucas is not an athiest, he's a Buhdist, and he was raised a Christian. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.KA. TK-007@Sep 26 2002, 10:53 PM
George Lucas is not an athiest, he's a Buhdist, and he was raised a Christian. ;)
do you by any chance have a link to prove this statement?

[JediBendu]

the quote is actually a reference to everyone being a bit Buddhist in Berkley (?) during the 60s. He was raised methodist (whatever that means).
I'll try and find a link - I think it was a time magazine article.

[Darth Vegas]

Methodist is a division of the Christian faith, very similar to Presbyerian and Baptist.

GL actually said in an interview in which he was asked what religion he was that he raised a Methodist, but that he was now a Buddist.

[Jamielee]

This is pretty interesting. It's a lot of people comparing Jedi to other religions (scroll down to find the interesting part) If you skip to page 5 that's what a lot of people on this sight seem to consider the Jedi religion

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/105/story_10570_1.html

[Jamielee]

I've found a Jediism home page too, if anyone's interested. . .

http://www.jediism.org/

[Lara]

Jamielee, interesting sites. Btw, I had that avatar since may and it's kinda odd seeing it without my screen name under it LOL! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Are you "Jedi" prepared to live by the code?

No romantic love, no sex, you can't even have any contact with y0our families....................... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif

[JediBendu]

nothin about no sex!!!!! :0

Jedi Knights would be considered the 'monks' of the order. General Dodona makes a point of saying 'May the Force be with you' before the pilots go off for the DS run.
You don't have to demonstrate Force abilities, nor adhere to their stringent code, for you to believe in the Force.

[Jamielee]

Originally posted by DarthLara@Sep 29 2002, 03:14 AM
Jamielee, interesting sites. Btw, I had that avatar since may and it's kinda odd seeing it without my screen name under it LOL! :p
<span style='color:green'>I know, I hardly recognize my own posts anymore style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif</span>

[Ieluuka]

Jamielee - I agree, very intersting site...where did you hear about it, or was it just a fluke that you found it?

[JediBendu]

I have to disagree - firstly, Jediism is a ludicrous term! Secondly, it sounds as though it's just another new age spiritual movement (borderline cult - 7 steps?!?! ). Thirdly, it has very little reference to what GL has written about Jedi and the Order - where did the get the 21 maxims of the Jedi Order? It seems to be based around the single phrase 'Fear leads to anger etc'.
Jediism is a hokey religion. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Jedi should be based soley on Star Wars and anything GL has said about it.

[Ieluuka]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Oct 2 2002, 07:55 PM
I have to disagree - firstly, Jediism is a ludicrous term! Secondly, it sounds as though it's just another new age spiritual movement (borderline cult - 7 steps?!?! ). Thirdly, it has very little reference to what GL has written about Jedi and the Order - where did the get the 21 maxims of the Jedi Order? It seems to be based around the single phrase 'Fear leads to anger etc'.
Jediism is a hokey religion. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Jedi should be based soley on Star Wars and anything GL has said about it.
Yes, I fully agree! Like it all seems a bit...fake, and how they have the pledge to become a Jedi Knight and stuff...it all seems a bit weird. And yes I also agree on the point that it should be fully related to GL and Star Wars style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif