Fewer Aliens, Please

[nunzio]

Based on Eps. 1 and 2, there is little chance of this happening, but I really hope that Lucas gets away from these alien characters and re-focuses on the humans. This would make sense because the Emperor has a pro-human (and pro-male) bias, but it makes it easier for the viewer to relate as well.

The original STAR WARS had the alien thing exactly right: they were just background to set the environment of another planet (and even the squeaks and snorts and grunts sounds that Ben Burtt came up with were better then). Instead, now George wants to computer animate them to become these really wacky creatures with a lot of screen time, and it just makes those parts of the movies seem cartoonish.

Back in the '70s, the creatures were made on a shoestring budget, probably did not look all that good up close, and as a result, he had to use them very sparingly. This worked to the benefit of the films. Less is more. All of those aliens had weight, occupied space, and reflected and absorbed light perfectly.

It even works with action. If a Jedi falls 10 feet and lands on a passing speeder, it's shocking and thrilling. If he falls 500 feet, it just looks like a special effect and all the danger element is removed, so the viewer gets no sense of tension.

Some humans I'd like to see in Ep. 3: a young Tarkin, Dodonna (an early officer in the Republic/Imperial army?), Mon Mothma, Veers, Ozzel, Reikaan.

[Badass Leia]

I agree with the aleins. They do make I and II look cartoonish. I think they add to it, but they also take away from the humans. It makes IV V VI seem like the aleins have become extinct because you don't see half of the species. In the older trilogy people were actually in the costumes, or they were puppets. I also must add I loved having people actually inside the stormtrooper armor rather than it is animated. I cannot say anything bad about the new animation, because it is something I am looking for at a career for myself. :biggrin: I am a youngin, but I have taken a big interest in it in the past few years, but I do say GL could have done without some of them.

[Vyndim]

All I can say is: why? Aliens diversify Star Wars. Boxing the characters in to just humans is too restraining. The idea of adding more aliens and such gives us a sense of a more diverse and dynamic world.(galaxy?) To assume the majority of the population is human, I think is wrong. The majority it would seem is alien. The aleins of Star Wars are there to add depth. Taking them away makes Star Wars lose its appeal and creates this mundane setting. Personally I like how the CGI has really helped GL in creating a more fluid and deep Star Wars Universe.

[Senator Theant]

Good topic, nunzio. This needs to be discussed. The comparison with action sequences is brilliant. However, Vyndium is absolutely right. Aliens ensure that the galaxy is percieved as an enormous body. The Republic is thus seen as the unyfing force and with great ramifications. Its downfall proves all to disastrous. Thats the message that Lucas wants to get across to us in the prequels, the chaos of the galaxy and the need for balance. I had hoped that there would still be those puppet aliens in the prequels. It seems as if they are very few if not none. I believe that the puppets in the OT aroused more emotion from the actors, seeing as everything seemed tangible around them. Every scene in AOTC was tampered by a computer, which simply says that the movies are more mechanical then ever.

However, I think LUcas should have stayed consistent on the amount of Alien appearences. Perhaps more aliens in the city above Bespin. Remember also that since Palp hates aliens, shouldnt they have completely swelled the ranks of the Rebel Alliance 100 fold? Facts like that make you wonder, but dont subtract that much from the overall quality of the film.

[NelsonCoressel]

I have to agree with nunzio on this.
In fact, I started feeling this way nearly 20 years ago when ROTJ was first released. There are about a dozen too many stupid-looking creatures in Jabba's palace, and it looks like they are there just to be there. I guess it does diversify the Star Wars universe, but at the same time less is indeed more.

For example, why does Obi-Wan's buddy "Dex" in AOTC have to be this over-sized grizzly bear/rooster concoction? Or why do the Trade Federation dudes have to be these unconvincing frog-face fools with funky accents? If those characters in particualar were HUMAN, their dialogue and importance in the plot might actually come off as more important to the story, rather than just goofy.

Keep in mind though that I have no real problem with Jar Jar, Watto, Sebulba, Chewie or most of the other "lead" aliens. It's just the supporting alien roles that I think can be distracting at times.

[max_rebo42]

I feel that the aliens are an integral part of GL's vision. If you think about it, the Original Trilogy is supposed to take place at the edge of the Galaxy, away from the massive civilizations showcased in episodes I & II (and probably III). That is why Lucas shows so many aliens in these movies. It creats the image that the action is taking place near the center of civilization. So, after Episode III is finished we move on the IV, V, & VI where the action takes place on the out rim of the galaxy, hense less alien incounters. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[Badass Leia]

Very good points being made. I now agree that aleins do make a good part in it. It's like I didn't but I think he is fine. Except the fact that there are a butt load of aliens one place and then none in the other. That confuses me sometimes. After all, it is another galaxy and humans should be fewer than the aleins. I do love em much! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Blizzard]

The aliens helped the Rebellion against the anti-alien Empire. The aliens are what makes Star Wars a fantasy film.

In case you haven't noticed, aliens group together. My neighborhood is full of them. They don't hang out in the suburbs, and Coruscant doesn't have suburbs.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif :D

[Senator Theant]

Im lost.

Yes, aliens do help the Rebel Alliance, that much is obvious. It just seems strange that the universe canbe as diverse as it is (as shown in the Prequels), yet only a handful of species participate actively in the fight against the genocidal EMpire. The species that do take an active role are poorly represented in the area of troops. Thats all Im sayin, thats its all kinda weird. Im not at all suggesting that the film is any worse because of this.

[Blizzard]

I think we are suppose to assume many alien species are docile.

[Senator Theant]

I see. Yea I guess we must . . .

[Justin]

I think that humans are easier to relate to, and are more interesting to watch. I personally prefer watching real people as opposed to computer-generated muppets, which George Lucas seems so fond of right now. S at least if there aren't going to be less aliens, there should be less CGI aliens. Puppets look better.

[nunzio]

How true. George originally conceived Han Solo as a green-skinned alien with gills and no nose. If he were to make STAR WARS today, he would just go ahead and have ILM create a cartoon character, have Ahmed Best voice it, and we would never have been treated to Harrison Ford's star-making performance.

Even take a look at EMPIRE, which had a bigger budget than STAR WARS, all of the rebels in the trenches are human beings and the film didn't suffer for it -- it's still a fantasy space opera.

And the best non-human characters are those inhabited by very human traits because there are humans inside the costumes: Chewbacca and 3PO.

Besides, with all of this computer animating going on, we're missing out on those cool mask/ armor designs like the ones in the original series. Instead, we're treated to slapstick action from background characters that look like the enchanted clock from BEAUTY AND THE BEAST.

[Angel_Blue]

That would suck.

[Master Sage]

Aliens really make SW for me. I love the ugly aliens running around.

[Angel_Blue]

GO MORE ALIENS I SAY!!!!!!!!!!!! (as long as the look cool)

Creatures are a whole other thing, they are gonna have some kinda creature. They gotta.

[Mann]

less Jar Jar though.

[Angel_Blue]

Yes. I agree with that. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that in EP III he's gonna have a smaller role than in EP II.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by nunzio@May 28 2002, 07:12 PM
Based on Eps. 1 and 2, there is little chance of this happening, but I really hope that Lucas gets away from these alien characters and re-focuses on the humans. *This would make sense because the Emperor has a pro-human (and pro-male) bias

The original STAR WARS had the alien thing exactly right: *they were just background to set the environment of another planet
Look at it this way, aliens are everywhere in the PT because the Republic is still free for all creatures to roam around. But in the OT, at the peak of the Empire, the Emperor has run all of the alien species to the outer rim worlds because of his "pro-human" bias.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by DblDwn+Jul 24 2003, 09:42 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DblDwn @ Jul 24 2003, 09:42 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-nunzio@May 28 2002, 07:12 PM
Based on Eps. 1 and 2, there is little chance of this happening, but I really hope that Lucas gets away from these alien characters and re-focuses on the humans. This would make sense because the Emperor has a pro-human (and pro-male) bias

The original STAR WARS had the alien thing exactly right: they were just background to set the environment of another planet
Look at it this way, aliens are everywhere in the PT because the Republic is still free for all creatures to roam around. But in the OT, at the peak of the Empire, the Emperor has run all of the alien species to the outer rim worlds because of his "pro-human" bias. [/b][/quote]
There are also a few "real world" reasons for more aliens in the PT:

1.) From what I've seen, read and heard over the years, GL is rather uncomfortable in working with actors. He would rather do things like animation. In a long ago interview, Ron Howard mentioned about going to lunch with GL just before the making of "American Graffiti". At the time, Ron Howard was about to go to film school at USC (GL's alma mater). GL got real excited when he told Ron about things like the Animation Dept. at USC. GL said that THAT is where the REAL filmmaking takes place. You don't have to deal with distactions like actors. Ron Howard said that this was kind of ironic for GL to say, since GL had just hired him as an actor for his next film. Later..... when technology advanced to the point where ILM could make "believable" CGI characters, GL was in hog heaven! He could make the characters do whatever he wanted them to do. In some scenes there were no longer actors, egos, etc. to get in the way of his "vision".

2.) More aliens mean more toys to sell. Follow the money!

3.) Back in 1977, the original SW film was considered to be FILLED with aliens. At the water coolers around the world, the cantina scene was one of the most talked about scenes of the time. Of course, by comparison to more recently released episodes, there were relatively few aliens. But, as each film is released, you need more and more in order to make a real impact on the audience.

[bluemilk]

It's creature joy! I like all the different aliens in the Star Wars movies. I don't think there were less aliens in the OT than in the PT. ANH and ROTJ were especially filled with different aliens. There roles may not have been as significant but they did add to the uniqueness of the saga.

[Darth Hepaticus]

The addition of more aliens, IMHO only adds to the texture of the SW universe. To me, it is a better idea to have more, not less of an alien persence. I get the sense though that the human species is the most prevalent in the galaxy. I'm not sure what, or if the EU series comments on this, but I am wondering if humans were among the first spacefarers in the the galaxy, hence the frist to colonize other worlds, which might account for their prevalence.

[JediBendu]

^ sounds like a working idea for a series - the Origins of the Republic would be a great story, esp seeing the Jedi first discovering their powers.

...although it would be kinda like an 'Enterprise' for Star Wars style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif


Originally posted by Mothman@
GL said that THAT is where the REAL filmmaking takes place. You don't have to deal with distactions like actors.

he's probably refering to the ability to get the story inside someone's head out and transcribing it to film. Often the actors are the key to a movies success or failure, even more so if it's story driven.

2.) More aliens mean more toys to sell. Follow the money!

if he didn't sell toys then ILM, LucasFilm and Skywalker Sound would barely be able to survive. Proceeds have gone back into the industry where other film making companies just feed into the stock holders.
Toys are cool - especially a 1978 original Italian Star Wars Pinball game (still with original ball) that I've had my eye on, waiting till pay day!

Back in 1977, the original SW film was considered to be FILLED with aliens.

ya, the Cantina scene blew everyone away - no one had concentrated on the variety of aliens before. I think there are definitely more aliens in the PT, but also they've used different races within the same species eg red, blue, purple, white and green Twi'leks.

[bodhisattva yoda]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

twi'liks make me happy.

[JediBendu]

ya, especially half naked dancing Twi'leks style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[bodhisattva yoda]

i don't mean to sound racist, but i think i like the blue ones best.

[Empress Palpatine]

I heard the green ones make you horny....

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Empress Palpatine@Jul 29 2003, 10:05 PM
I heard the green ones make you horny....
Now you're speaking my language style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[JediBendu]

nah - the pastey white Bib Fortuna does it for me style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Erick Landrider]

I like most of the back ground Aliens (Cantina, Jabba's Palace, Senate) and characters like Chewie, Mas Amedda, Nute Gunray, Geedo are good too. I only really have a problem a lot of the CG aliens like the Kaminoans, Geonosians, and other than the battle droids, CG droids.

Watching AOTC, it all seemed like to much. I know that the Kaminoans were supposed to seem foriegn and strange, but that could have been accomplished in so many other ways (speach pattern, make up, the actors chosen for the spots would all help)

I'm not totally against using CG characters, but if it's used to much it loses its effect, with me anyway.

[darthludicrous]

I do enjoy how GL made characters like Yoda CG. It adds depth and allows the character to do more than just sit around or walk back and forth. I also liked his work on the Kaminoans (my favorite aliens style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif ) However, I do think GL needs to tone it down with the aliens in EP3 (which probably won't happen) in which case he should find a way to explain why there aren't so many aliens in the OT.

[Phil Tinajero]

I love the CG work on the aliens, especially Yoda and Watto. But in some cases I do agree about toning the use of aliens down a bit to create a more human emotion to the movie. When there's a ton of creatures on screen you feel less for the human characters. I agree that more humans would create more drama.

[bodhisattva yoda]

the aliens don't bother me unless

-they're CG and poorly animated (cartoony)
-the extras playing them are dumb and do things like throw their hands in the air like they just don't care (bonta eve podrace arena)

i don't mind when they just act natural rather than a distraction.

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Gandalf@Aug 4 2003, 04:08 AM
I love the CG work on the aliens, especially Yoda and Watto. But in some cases I do agree about toning the use of aliens down a bit to create a more human emotion to the movie. When there's a ton of creatures on screen you feel less for the human characters. I agree that more humans would create more drama.
but it wouldn't be a completely alien universe
Less humans the better as far as I'm concerned - cg characters will (eventually) transfer a whole range of human and alien emotions, it just takes a mouse and a whole heap o practice style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@Aug 4 2003, 05:07 AM

-the extras playing them are dumb and do things like throw their hands in the air like they just don't care (bonta eve podrace arena)


cg characters would never have done that style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

I agree, some of those shots should have been left on the cutting room floor - way to 'strained' and too much like an afternoon watching the races on downtown earth

[bodhisattva yoda]

exactly. i feel like i'm being taken out of the fantasy of the moment whenever i see that retarded alien doing his stupid american dance.

also, when i see a cg character that doesn't look right, i fault the animators, not the technology. the technology is there.

[Ka'Leh Cim]

I don't mind if there are any aliens in the movie. But in AOTC it seems a bit too much. I personally can not identify with some strange person looking weird on the screen. I know that in the SW galaxy there are more species then the human species but he can keep the number a bit down. It was a bit irritating to see so much "Aliens" in AOTC.

[mrnapier]

if all you guys were aliens you would say: Why are there so many humans in this movie...

Not that I disagree or anything style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif