Padme in ROTJ?

[Jedi Luke]

What are all these rumours and news reports I'm hearing about Natalie Portman signing up to film some extra footage that will be inserted into the DVD release of ROTJ? What is George Lucas doing? Does this mean that we can assume that Padme won't die in EPIII. Disappears for two films, and then makes a reappearance in ROTJ? This is weird.

And how are they going to make Natalie Portman look 60 years old. They can do it with makeup, but it all seems a bit weird to me.

[threeP0]

Personally, I have not even heard of this rumor from any other Star Wars message board. I really doubt that it is true, but that is just my personal speculation.

[Jedi Luke]

If you don't believe me, here is the news report from Yahoo News. The article mainly talks about C3P0, but the last paragraph he talks about Natalie Portman and Padme in the DVD release of Return of the Jedi. Read it for yourself :

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/020528/242/czu6u.html

I would like to know your thoughts.

[NelsonCoressel]

It could be a flashback sequence, as Luke and Leia are talking and Leia says "she died when I was very young... she was beautiful... sad..." etc.

I think this sounds like it could be a very interesting addition to ROTJ, and could give it even more dramatic closure.

Maybe not...

???

[DanielSkywalker]

Mr. Lucas has never included a flashback sequence in any Star Wars movies befoe. it would be very strange to see one added into ROTJ. Although, it would seem the only way they could include Padme in ROTJ would be to have a flashback sequence because she supposedly dies when Leiah is very young. Very interesting this is.

[Badass Leia]

Whoa, that is weird. The only explaination I could come up would be as a flashback like you guys think. I mean, she can't just leave for two episodes if she doesn't die. They can't just take her out. This is weird, and I want an explaination!! lol style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Kafer]

My guess is she might appear as a ghost image like the rest of the Jedi gang. I've always suspected Padme was a little Force sensitive. Perhaps the shot during the celebration will have Anakin and Padme holding hands with Obi-Wan and Yoda smiling on.

[DanielSkywalker]

With a few exceptions, I really liked the additions included in the SE trilogy. But, adding in Padme as a ghost like image at the end of ROTJ would really bother me. That scene is definitely one of my favourites and I do not think Mr. Lucas needs to tamper with it. Am I the only one who feels this way?

[Jedi Luke]

Agree with you Daniel. I don't think that he should change that particular scene in ROTJ. In fact I don't think he should change the OT trilogy anymore than he already has. Also, I heard that Hayden C. signed a contract for 5 movies, not 3. So what does this mean? More added scenes to either ANH, ESB or ROTJ with Hayden as Anakin/Vader.

I'm not sure I'm completely happy with Lucas changing the OT in the way I think he might. I think he should leave them as they are. Either just leave them, or completely remake the whole lot. Just quit messing with the originals, I say. The problem with Lucas, is that he is not happy with the OT, because of the technology available to him now.

I think he'd be happier if he could remake the originals the way he wants. I'm sure that's what he really wants to do, but he won't because he knows the fans won't like it. So instead he's going to butcher the originals beyond all recognition.

Ahhhhh!

[RollaFett]

I didn't hear that about Hayden C. Interesting, I suppose he would film the scene in ESB w/o the helmet and Hayden for that. He would also refilm any Anakin scene from ROTJ with Anakin as well. If you think about it, you really don't see the actor who plays Anakin with anybody else. I mean even though he was in the same scene as Mark Hamill aboard the DS, the Anakin shots were all cutaways, so they could probably get away with it, with it looking fine. As far as the spirits scene goes, well that's special effects anyway, so no problem there. I don't know, I don't think I'd have a big problem with that. As far as inserting Padme into that scene, well I believe that would be flat out dumb.

[Kafer]

Well, let see. If George changes anything, I would really like to see the scene with the Rancor in RotJ changed. Everytime I watch that it looks horrible. Obvious lines and the such.

And if George is going to seriously alter TOT, then let him scrap the old ones and start brand new. Keep Ewan as Obi and get someone better to play Luke. But he'll never do better than Harrison for Han.

[Justin]

Someone better to play Luke?? Blasphemy!!! There is no better Luke than Mark Hamill!!

[DanielSkywalker]

I agree, Justin. Mark Hamill was dead on. Sure, he was kinda' whiny in ANH, but he was supposed to be. By ESB and ROTJ, he was a much more mature and cooler Luke, a Jedi like his father before him. I really doubt Mr. Lucas will redo the whole OT. That would just be retarded.

[Kafer]

Sure, Mark portrayed a much more mature Luke, but his acting still sucked. Shall we compare him with....Ewan. I got much more out of Ewan's "NO!!!!!!!" in TPM than Mark's "No!!!!!!!!!!!!" in ESB. I think by the time he got to RotJ he finally fit the role. But he was still too whiny in ESB.

[Tremaine]

Hmmm, this discussion seems to have strayed quite a bit from the original topic, but still very interesting:

RE: remaking OT. I not sure the investment would be profitable - I don't think it would generate the sort of revenues needed for such a project. Personally I wouldn't want to anyway. As far as I can recall Mark Hamill has been criticized for his acting in OT, just as a lot of the supposedly "good" actors in PT have been for their acting in TPM & AOTC. But I don't agree. I think Hamill did a great job, eg.:
1) Luke is such a whining fob in ANH - GREAT!
2) "NOOOOOOOO!!! That's IMPOSSIBLE" worked fine for me i ESB,
3) his scenes with Han Solo in ANH were great ("...she's rich!", etc.)
The only thing I would like to see digitally changed about Luke would be his terrible haircut... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
I can't imagine any actor replacing Harrison Ford, it just can't be done.
I would love, however, to see GL make this so-called "ultimate"-edition of OT. It would be great to see some of the scenes brought up-to-date (ESP the horrible Rancor-scene - it just seems stupid that it wasn't redone in SE) and I would love to see the addition of small, extra scenes, such as Bail Organa reacting to the appearence of the Death Star, the Emperor disbanding the senate, etc.)

RE: Amidala in ROTJ. I'm sure GL could come up with a plausible reason for putting her in ROTJ - the obvious scene being the sprit scene at the end. It would certainly put a twist on Anakins statement in AOTC about him stopping people from dying, if he, in death, were able to summon Amidala's spirit - finally giving Anakin the peace and happiness he had been denied, and uniting the two in death. This would emphasize the Romeo&Juliet-theme present in the Anakin/Amidala lovestory. Consider: they are married in secret, against the will of their "family", and the actions of Romeo/Anakin causes both the death of his true love (if we assume Amidala is on Alderaan, then Vader could have saved her from the Death Star) and causes him to be banished/outcast - ie. his passion is cause of his downfall. In the end they can only be united in death... adding Amidala to ROTJ would make perfect sense to me.

I hope my ranting made some sense... ???

[DanielSkywalker]

I too think Mark Hamill did a gret job in the OT. His reaction to the revelation of Vader being his father was priceless. To this day that scene remains very powerful and moving. Not to mention how he acts in ROTJ. He's as cool as a cucumber. Am I the only one who noticed that Hayden C. sometimes resembles Luke. Maybe I'm just imaging things, but i swear sometimes when Anakin is contemplative, he reminds me of a pensive Luke. Well, back to the original topic, I do hope that Mr. Lucas can make it look reasonably good if he does decide to add Padme in with Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin. I am afraid however, that if he does add her in that scene it would come accross as kinda' cheesy.

[dexterlennon]

hello, new here from the cinescape boards. we discussed this already there to, and sorry to resurrect a dead topic.
i appear to be one of the only people who seems to think that making padme a "ghost" at the end of ROTJ would be a bad idea.
think about it, luke looks out, sees these ghosts, can identify three of them. then, there's this lady, whom he has never met standing there with them. he would be like, "ok, i know who those people are, but who the f*ck is that?"
glad to be here at glactic senate...thank you for you time...

[The Doctor]

My two cents:
Mark Hammil in OT: He was ok. I admit he fitted the role well but the role was pretty cringworthy. I sometimes feel with the OT that it was really carried off because of the quality of the actors. The NT has good actors but the scripts are killing them... not that AOTC wasn't good, but it could have been better. Anyway that is way too off topic already...

Padme in ROTJ: I am thinking flashback, but I would like to see the ghost scene altered slightly: I think it would make more sense to include Anakin as Hayden Christiansen. But I don't want to spoil it as it is now.... oh I don't know, this is why we don't make the decisions... George! We bow to your knowledge! Except concerning ewoks and Jar Jar....

The Rancor Scene MUST be changed....

I think thats all I've got to say...

[The Doctor]

OH: Cool idea... We are just shown Anakins initial fall in the NT (say up to where he gets his armor) and all the in between stuff (Luke and Leia being seperated, maybe even Padme's death if she doesn't die in the NT) is seen in flash backs or something in the new OT

Except that might mess with the pace a bit.... have to think on it.

[Leia]

urgh, I hope they don't add anything more to the Original Trilogy. George, you made the movies twenty years ago, they're done! Leave them alone already!!

[longingfor2005]

The thing is that GL was never pleased with the script for ROTJ because when he originally worte it it was the conclusion of 2 stories and not just one, but since the audience never saw the story of the Anakin/padme trilogy the studio made him make alterations to ROTJ so that the audience would not be confused. I heard that in the original trilogy the empror was supposed to make a mocking comment to him about being the "chosen one", Leia talking about her mother was supposed to be a flashback meant tobring closure to her character. This scene was obviously rewritten because it was unnecesary because the audience had never met Padme. When Vader dies he will remember the fields of Naboo and the time he spent with Padme there during episode 2, this scene was left out in ROTJ because there was no old footage to go back too but now there is, and as many people have guessed Padme's ghost will stand nextr to Anakins at the end of ROTJ holding his hand showing the audience that they can truly be togethor now. I'm excited aboyut the redo of ROTJ because now we can finally see the movie the way GL originally intended us too.

[Senator Amory]

I believe, if the thing about Hayden is true, that Vader will have flashbacks of the times that he and Padme, maybe even Obi-Wan, spent together. He said it himself that,"You were right, you were right about me." He was telling Luke that he had good in him all along, and he knew it, he just didn't want to admit it. Maybe these sceenes will be added whe we see Vader in his chamber without his helmet. Maybe he uses that time to reflect back on previous things. Such as love and innocence. Everything he left behind. I'll talk about Padme later because right now, I have to go watch MadTV. See ya.

[Shoma Barad]

Padme in the OT can only make sense with the PT... and wow! look at that! Lucas is almost finished with that! lol

I think the idea is cool..

but if he is gonna change that last scene in ROTJ, he should out the old music back in it, and ditch the pan pipes. Ugh.

~~Shoma

[helenpleb]

Hey dudez

I think the idea of having Padme in ROTJ is interesting, but would have to be done very tactfully as not to screw things up. My only worry would be that GL would then decide to tweak some more...and then something else.....and then change that a bit, and before you know it, the OT would never be the same again! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/butbut.gif In my opinion, the OT is already brilliant and doesn't need anything else altering about it, in fact I prefer the OT to the NT - dunno why, but anywayz, these are just my humble thinkings :sigh:

[Tremaine]

longingfor2005: thats a pretty interesting piece of hearsay you've got there - I never heard that one before (but, I must admit, I haven't really looked for such tidpits before...). I find it very interesting, and it would make sense (as I see it). I just can't see how GL would make PT and OT "fit" without adding something to OT - but I'm not so sure about actual flashbacks; somehow they just don't fit SW. I'm much more inclined to believe GL would add scenes that imply the character thinking back on old times, rather than actually showing what said character think; eg. show Vader (in his chamber) looking at that amulet he made for Padme in PM.

[darthfool]

I think I remember either George or Rick saying fairly recenetly that the DVD version of the OT will be the final version and that it is just the special edition with a few extra scenes to strenghen the ties to the prequel trilogy.

I am thinking that flashbacks would seem odd but in the ROTJ novel Anakin does remeber Obi-Wan and Padmé as he dies. Although Padmé is just refered to as "his wife".

I think whatever happens the changes will be good. Have faith he's never let us down before.

Well.... there were the two Ewok movies... and the Holiday Special....Oh and the Greedo shooting first thing..Jar Jar (aggghhhhh!!!)...Then there was the time he thought casting Jake Llyod was a good idea......

[RollaFett]

LOL, Darthfool! I think that a flashback scene would be the most appropriate, even though it would be a first, but having her stand among the spirits at the end would just suck. But inserting Hayden C. in that scene WOULD be good, IMHO.

[qui-riv-brid]

1. I'm surprised how many people think Padme dies in EP. 3

she lives as far as we can tell because Leia remembers here
as a child, barely.

That said Luke's father also was to have been dead and that wasn't true so why would Padme be dead either?

Also she would be just under 50 in ROTJ not 60
TPM 14, AOTC 24, EP 3 26, ROTJ 23-24 years later.

She could just briefly appear alive at the celebration and move towards them and the rest is up to you.

[qui-riv-brid]

to dexterlennon

you make an interesting point about how would Luke know who Padme is my reply would be that he can feel it
just like he knew Vader was his father and Leia his sister.

[Ani's Girl]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Perhaps the shot during the celebration will have Anakin and Padme holding hands with Obi-Wan and Yoda smiling on. [/b][/quote]

ahhhhhh - i would faint!!!

i've heard a lot of speculation about this. i think the insert padme memories into anakin's choice scene makes the most sense esp. cause it's in the novelization.

i think GL can make as many Ultra Super Especially Specialized Special Editions as he wants and i will watch every one style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif i own both versions now and watch whichever i feel like so go GL go !!

[Lonesabre]

A rumour I heard some time ago that I have posted on the EPIII speculation is that..

Padme doesnt die and infact she is already in ROTJ!!

She is infact, apparently, Mon Mothma from the briefing scenes.

My guess would be that George would remove the original actress and replace her with an aged Natalie Portman?

What do you think!?

Let me know!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[RollaFett]

Ummm... how exactly would that work, Lonesabre?
I stay away from the Speculation section to avoid possible spoilers, so I haven't heard anything about this.

[Lonesabre]

I admit this possibility is highly unlikely but the theory is sound.

Padme has always been the strongest voice in the senate and a most respected figure head. I find it highly plausable that she could become the leader of the rebels - As Mon Mothma is.

In effect this would add another level to the OT, which would be a husband against wife battle - Vader and the Empire against Padme and the rebels. Maybe she could then be added to ANH and/or TESB as well?

A bit farfetched I admit but not out of the question surely?!

:look:

[Tyranus]

<span style="color:red">I've heard she was myself, and it would be pretty cool, but we have a long wait. I heard it's coming out around 2005(Ep3) I dont know if it's true.</span>

[Dark Skywalker 9]

Lonesabre...

I like the Padme as Mon Mothma theory as well...although unlikely. I remember hearing or reading somewhere that Anakin at some point has a dream where he is leading his forces into battle against an army led by Padme. Since we still don't know whether or not Padme dies/gets killed in Ep. III or at some point after, I think it would make alot of sense that she went into hiding, changed her identity and re-emerged as a leader of the Rebellion.

[Lonesabre]

Thankyou Dark Skywalker 9...

The more that I think about this the more I like the idea of it "getting back to its roots" as it were of GOOD verses EVIL, HUSBAND verses WIFE in the Ultimate Battle...

Sounds good to me, however unlikely... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

[queenamadila]

well i dont know if somebodys already said this or not but anyway, erm, i think that you know at the end of ROTJ when Anakin, yoda and Obi-wans gjosts are standing, non of them seem to have grown since they died so maybe padme does sie in epIII but then her ghost id shown in ROTJ without any change in the past 60 or so years. eh? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[Count Dooku]

<span style="color:red">By the way is it just going to be flashbacks Leia having about her mother, or something else? [Is clueless] style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cry.gif</span>

[RollaFett]

Dark Skywalker 9- I beleive I have found what you are looking for. I just checked TPM novelization and on the first page of chapter 12 (page 154) it states:

[The dream shimmered, and voices reached out to him, soft and distant. He turned torward them, away from a wave of dark movement that suddenly appeared before him, away from the sleep that gave his dream life.

"I hope you're about finished," he heard Padme say.

But Padme was at the head of the dark wave of his dream, and the wave was an army, marching torward him...]

That's what I uncovered. It was a scene that Anakin had the night before the day of the podrace.

[Starborne]

Y'know what, I just watched the last half of RotJ for no apparent reason (I mean, who doesn't do that... ahem) and I think it would be really neat if they got Hayden Christensen to replace Sebastian Shaw in the Anakin's death scene. I think it would bring a lot of closure to the entire series (if viewed from Episode I to Episode IV). I feel the same way about the Padme flashbacks during the Leia/Luke scene, and the addition of Anakin (played by Christensen) and Padme's ghosts holding hands alongside Yoda and Alec Guiness' Obi-Wan. It would be neat it they somehow put in Qui-Gon next to Alec Guiness too (on the other side).

I envisioned the extra shots with the ghosts of Anakin and Padme and I cried. Literally. I've NEVER over the course of my ENTIRE LIFE cried at a movie before.

I think it would be perfect, and add a whole load of better continuity and connection between the two halves of the series.

[SonGokou]

Just reading this makes me winge. Does GL think were so stupid we need this inserted into the OT? I will never watch a version of any of the OT movies butchered in this way, even if it is created by Master George. The Special Editions were excellent (apart from that mutated Jabba thing in ANH), they simply removed the dodgey effects so we wouldn't sit there and mumble: "Doesn't look as good as I remember." It just worked. As far as the flashback occuring on the bridge on Endor, it simple isn't possible. To insert something such as this would ruin the pacing of the film. The big GL is known for his editing techniques and this would not be good editing. In fact, I can think of nowhere where this scene would fit.

[RollaFett]

SonGokue- GL enjoys editng, to be sure, but after seeing the last two films, I can't say he is really good at it anymore.
That said, I agree with you regarding the ghost scene. The only insertion I wouldn't mind seeing is Sebastian Shaw being replaced by Hayden Christiansan. I've made mention of this earlier actually Starbone, so don't think you can swoop in and steal my thunder! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif It would actually be an easy thing to do, considering that all of Shaw's scenes are cutaways.

[DblDwn]

If this was already said I apologize, but I didn't read ever post. In the novelization for TPM, at the beginning of Chapter 12, Anakin has a dream and in his dream it reads that, "Padme was at the head of the dark wave of his dream, and the wave was an army, marching towards him......." I have always thought that to be foreshadowing events to come in Episode III, but now I am thinking otherwise. Up until now I imagined that Lucas would include her as a spirit alongside Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan at the end ROTJ, but how about this? In order to conceal her identity, Padme has changed her name to Mon Mothma and become the leader of the Rebellion. If you think about it, it could make sense. ROTJ is the only movie in which Portman is rumored to be in for the DVD release and, coincidentally, ROTJ is also the only movie in which we see Mon Mothma. All they would have to do is re-film the briefing scene with Portman as Mothma and, voila, there you have it. The dream in the book could mean that the 'dark wave' is the Rebellion and since Padme is at the head of that 'wave' then she would have to be Mon Mothma. Leia says that her mother died when she was very young. Maybe after taking Leia to Alderaan, Padme spends a few years with Leia while her and Bail fully organize the Rebellion. Then around the time that Leia is 3-5 (very young) Padme leaves to lead the Rebellion and therefore Leia believes her to have died. What does everyone think? And don't come at me with, "well, then why doesn't Vader sense her in the galaxy?" That argument just won't do because Vader doesn't sense Yoda and doesn't sense Obi-Wan until he is on the Death Star. Up until that point he believes Obi-Wan to be dead already, or at least Tarkin did, but he still never knew where Obi-Wan was all those years. So tell me what you all think?

[SonGokou]

Hmm. Something I don't understand is why do you folks think Padme would be a ghost? She doesn't have the force. As for her being Mon Mothma, thats just plain silly. It takes the story in a direction it was never meant to go. If Padme IS in the movie the best place would be a ropey flashback with the full OBI/LUKE Degobah section reinserted. i still think it'll be awful. Ho hum...

[Lonesabre]

DblDwn, I have suggested this arguement many many times on this site and have been batted back with abuse and quotes from the official sites stating how it could not work!

But... I am 100% behind you on this, it is exactly how I believe it will happen. Maybe not reshooting the whole scene but hopefully doing something to insert Portman - lets face it theres not much they cant do with CGI.

I think I have stated it on the "Prequel Spoilers - Sorting the Rumours" thread, that the ONLY way GL could bring the saga together is to go back to the trilogies routes - GOOD V EVIL. I think it makes sense.

I mean if the rumours are true that Portman will be filming scenes for ROTJ this is surely the most sensible idea. Although Padme is supposed to be atuned with the force {in the novel of AOTC, doesnt Yoda state this after the first assasination attempt?, please correct me on this if Im wrong} so the ghost scene could work - but then for the scene to work Hayden would have to be edited in where Sebastian Shaw is {including on the deathstar}. But come on! There is NO way that there is going to be a cheesey flashback! NO way at all! This is the Starwars Universe! It has never happened before and it would make a farce of the audiences intelligence if Georgie felt that he had to include it!!!

Anyway, back on track, Padme makes sense as Mon Mothma. Shes the strongest voice in the senate at the moment and would be the only choice to lead the rebellion {with Bail Organa}. Obviously having to fade out of public life to help raise Leia from afar {I think she is only a nanny type and isnt known by the public to be Leias mother}, then reinventing herself as Mothma.

Plot loop holes are there admittadly but GL has been known to change things in the past that are EU, so I believe this might happen!!!

Sorry it took so long but its taken ages for someone to agree with me!!!

Sorry for straying into different threads but I think that they are relevant!!!

Phew!!! Let me know!!! * *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bigsmile.gif *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/alien.gif *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by SonGokou@July 07 2002 - 19:19
Hmm. *Something I don't understand is why do you folks think Padme would be a ghost? *She doesn't have the force. *As for her being Mon Mothma, thats just plain silly. *It takes the story in a direction it was never meant to go. *If Padme IS in the movie the best place would be a ropey flashback with the full OBI/LUKE Degobah section reinserted. *i still think it'll be awful. Ho hum...
First off, in the novelization for AOTC, Lonesabre is correct, Yoda says to Padme upon entering Palpatine's office at the beginning, "With you, the Force is strong, young Senator..........." So that clears up that.

Secondly, the thought of Padme as Mon Mothma really isn't that 'silly' at all. If you actually read my argument from before, it would coincide with both Anakin's dream and Leia believing her mother to have died. It would also make for a happier conclusion to the saga because once the Emperor and Vader have been defeated, she could then in turn reveal herself to her children. It would be a more heartfelt conclusion ala in Twins when they learn in the end that there mother is really alive after believing her to be dead as well.

Lastly, the idea of King George doing any kind of 'flashback' scenes involving anyone is what is purely 'silly'. It worked for an epic drama like The Godfather Part II, it's not going to work in an epic Sci-Fi/Fantasy film such as Star Wars.

Lonesabre, I had yet to read your posts regarding our shared ideas. I like the way you are thinking here. You are not believing everything you have been told by LucasFilm in the past.

Alot of people around these parts think that if King George, or Prince Rick (McCallum) say or confirm anything, then that is the law and there is no changing of it. However, if you remember 20-25 years ago Lucas had originally said that Owen Lars was to be Obi-Wan's brother and that is why Obi-Wan took Luke to be raised by him. Even before AOTC came out, most people assumed that to be the case and speculated as to why Owen would have such hatred for his brother, Obi-Wan, in ANH and what would happen to allow them to encounter Owen in AOTC. Then, after the movie came out, we were shown that King George had changed his mind from 20 years ago and decided to make Owen the son of Cliegg, who in turn was the husband to Shmi, the mother of Anakin, the father of Luke, so Lucas decided to make Owen Luke's real uncle after all, granted he's his step-uncle. Lucas changed his mind on that bit of the story, so how can you all be so certain that he won't change his mind on other bits of the story?

[Lonesabre]

BRAVO BRAVO!!!

At last someone who is not thinking in the 2 dimensional Lucas way and is thinking for themselves!!!

I agree, that I have read whole passages in various fan mags from 5 years ago or so arguing why Owen Lars doesnt have the same surname as Kenobi, even suggesting that on Tattooine men take there wifes surname at marriage!?! Owen Kenobi ---> Beru Lars ---> Owen Lars yeah? Things do change, nothing ever said is the law until May 2005 people!!!
Quote the Essential Guide to Characters {official GL material} "Owen Lars was never as flashy as his brother, Obi-Wan Kenobi, nor as daring as his friend, Anakin Skywalker..."

Things can change!!!

The guide states on Mon Mothma, that she had clashed with Palpatine before the original trilogy. There is lots of information about Mothma but surely a resourcful senator like Padme Amidala couldve fogged her past and reinvented herself as a "former senator of the republic" or even taken her actual identity {Mothma}, I dont know, the truth is, no one knows! But I just dont think that we should be bound by Stawars Law as we know it because, as weve found out, it is likely to change!!!

Hope you like this DblDwn, Ive got more points spread across the Spoilers site, check them out!

Reply soon!

:whatsthat:

[DblDwn]

Lonesabre, Thank you for tracking down that info from the Essential Guide in order to further support my comments about Owen's true relations to all in the saga. I will be sure to look up your other ideas throughout the site. Feel free to look up mine as well. I have posted alot of not-so-conventional ideas you may find interesting because, as you stated, I'm not thinking only based on things we've heard in the past.

[Dark Skywalker 9]

First, thanks to GollaFett for helping me remember where I read about Anakin dreaming about opposing a Padme-led army. Glad to hear that wasn't some rumor a read or something my own mind thought up! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

And I'm really glad to see more people buying the Padme as Mon Mothma idea. Lonesabre and DblDwn have hit some great points. I, for one always wondered about Mon Mothma when viewing ROTJ. Always thought to myself, "Who is this?". Now it makes sense with Padme being portrayed as such a well-respected senator in the prequels that she'd have no problem re-inventing herself as someone else after of few years of seclusion, then return to lead the Rebellion

[Lonesabre]

In my eyes 9, if I may call you 9, it is the only way Padme could be in ROTJ, the ghost idea {if she dies} is ok but a little sickly sweet, and I dont buy the 'flashback' theory for one minute.

It just makes sense.

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[ResqJedi]

Why is everyone focusing on the ghosts at the end or the scene in the ewok village? *For me, the best point and time for a flashback would be on Dagobah as Ben is telling Luke his "certain point of view". *He explains about his father, how he and his sister are seperated. *I think that's a much more logical place for a flashback. *As far as Hayden being signed for the 2 additional films besides ep3, *I haven't seen anything hard to suggest that. *And as for Natalie being Mon Mothma...I'd have to go against that. *First for the story reason that Mon Mothma wasn't played up against Vader throughout the trilogy. *It's a meaningless conflict for the viewers. *We don't even see her character throughout the attack. *Second, why would anyone want to replace the actress who played Mon Mothma or Sebastian Shaw? *Just to justify the story and for consistency? *And third, poor David Prowse, who had his voice dubbed over and was not given the chance to play Anakin, only to get passed over again 23 years later for Hayden? *Of course...I'm just a fan and not the writer/director style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by ResqJedi@July 09 2002 - 23:34
And as for Natalie being Mon Mothma...I'd have to go against that. *First for the story reason that Mon Mothma wasn't played up against Vader throughout the trilogy. *It's a meaningless conflict for the viewers. *We don't even see her character throughout the attack. *Second, why would anyone want to replace the actress who played Mon Mothma or Sebastian Shaw? *Just to justify the story and for consistency? *And third, poor David Prowse, who had his voice dubbed over and was not given the chance to play Anakin, only to get passed over again 23 years later for Hayden? *Of course...I'm just a fan and not the writer/director style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
As I have stated previously, Owen was originally intended to be Obi-Wan's brother and that is why Obi-Wan takes Luke to him. This point was fact 20 years ago. In that time, however, Lucas changed his mind and decided to make Owen Luke's Step-Uncle instead. Which in turn, I believe, goes along better with the story. You may have forgotten that Star Wars is Lucas' 'baby' and we are all just fortunate enough to watch her grow up. Just because he didn't 'play up' Mon Mothma vs. Vader in ROTJ, doesn't mean that he cannot change his mind and make that so now. Here is another example of Lucas changing his mind from the OT: Aside from deciding to alter Luke's actual relation to Owen, Lucas also changed Obi-Wan's background. Remember when Luke has escaped from the Ice Creature on Hoth and Ben appears to speak to him. Ben tells Luke that he, "Will go to the Dagobah System. There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me." At that point Lucas had intended for Yoda to have trained Obi-Wan, but in TPM, filmed 20 year later, Lucas had again changed his mind and introduced Qui-Gon as the one to have instructed Obi-Wan.

"Poor David Prowse".............what is this all about? If any of us saw Prowse on a sidewalk, none of us would have a clue who he is. The guys only claim to fame is that he was Darth Vader.............20-25 years ago. The guys career since makes Mark Hamill look like Robert De Niro. Lucas has no loyalty to Prowse that would guilt him into allowing the man to portray Vader in Episode III. If so, he would have had Prowse play the unmasked Anakin at the conclusion of ROTJ and not even bothered with Sebastian Shaw. The role is for Hayden now, pure and simple.

[DblDwn]

I just read this on Comingsoon.Com regarding an interview with Lucas about the DVD's of the OT:

"He also told MTV that Natalie Portman has signed on to be a part of the new scenes being filmed for Star Wars: Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. She'll shoot scenes during the production of Episode III."

Now we know for a fact, to all the non-believers out there, that Natalie will be in the DVD for ROTJ. Having said that I can still only imagine that she would be inserted as Mon Mothma. I don't buy the spirit at the end and I end up rolling on the floor in hysterics at the idea that Lucas would even consider including a flashback scene (that idea is cheesier than Kraft Cheese and Macaroni). That doesn't leave much else to consider. I know, I know, please hold the applause. Lonesabre, DS9 and myself are beginning to get a little embarassed at all your appreciative response to our undeniable wit and tremendous insight.

[Lonesabre]

You might say that DblDwn, DS9 and myself are a small band of rebels struggling to restore freedom to the galaxy...

Or at least three dudes who have probably solved the mystery of Padme in ROTJ, well done people!

My sides ache everytime I think of the 'flashback' scene!

:sarcasm:

PS, if there were to be any flashback scene, lets hope theres not, wouldnt it be more relevant to show Anakin and Padme frolicking in the meadows of Naboo than filming a brand new scene that we as the viewers would not recognise?

Just a thought, but, like weve said, lets hope it NEVER happens anyway!

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[longingfor2005]

I dont understand how people could take one paragraph written into TPM novelization that was put in by the writer and not GL (if you have the DVD version of the movie that scene is in deleted scenes and there's no mention of the dream) and take it as meanng that Padme is Mon Mothma! I also dont understand why people are so against a flashback either, wether people like it or not the PT characters are now part of the SW universe and fans of those characters deserve closure.

[Darth Yorch]

Originally posted by DanielSkywalker@May 31 2002 - 19:52
I too think Mark Hamill did a gret job in the OT. *His reaction to the revelation of Vader being his father was priceless. *To this day that scene remains very powerful and moving. *Not to mention how he acts in ROTJ. *He's as cool as a cucumber. *Am I the only one who noticed that Hayden C. sometimes resembles Luke. *Maybe I'm just imaging things, but i swear sometimes when Anakin is contemplative, he reminds me of a pensive Luke. *Well, back to the original topic, I do hope that Mr. Lucas can make it look reasonably good if he does decide to add Padme in with Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin. *I am afraid however, that if he does add her in that scene it would come accross as kinda' cheesy.
Daniel:

You´re not the only one who noticed that Hayden Christensen resembled Mark Hamill, and, also, Natalie Portman looked a little as Carrie Fisher... I think that Mr. Lucas selected them not only because their acting, but also because they are quite similar to the ones that are their children in the story.

[Darth Yorch]

Originally posted by DanielSkywalker@May 31 2002 - 19:52
*Am I the only one who noticed that Hayden C. sometimes resembles Luke. *Maybe I'm just imaging things, but i swear sometimes when Anakin is contemplative, he reminds me of a pensive Luke. *
Daniel:

You´re not the only one who noticed that Hayden Christensen resembled Mark Hamill, and, also, Natalie Portman looked a little as Carrie Fisher... I think that Mr. Lucas selected them not only because their acting, but also because they are quite similar to the ones that are their children in the story.

[DanielSkywalker]

Originally posted by DblDwn@July 08 2002 - 13:26
she could then in turn reveal herself to her children. It would be a more heartfelt conclusion ala in Twins when they learn in the end that there mother is really alive after believing her to be dead as well.
Well, I have a problem with this because Hamil and Fisher are way too old to reprise their roles as Luke and Leiah, and I doubt they would do it even if they weren't too old. Your idea about Mon Mothma being Padme isn't that bad of an idea, but I would want to see some sort of revelation where Luke and Leiah find out who she really is, but I'm afraid this just isn't possible because new footage with them in it just an't be shot. The only two ways to include Padme into ROTJ would have to be at the end along with Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin; or to have a flashback scene. Both of these sound kinda' lame to me, but I'm sure Mr. Lucas won't let us down.

[DblDwn]

There could be two ways around that though. For one, maybe she wouldn't reveal herself onscreen, that way there is no problem with trying to create the scene, and we are just to assume that she reveals herself after the end of the movie. Or, maybe Lucas filmed an alternate ending to ROTJ back in '82 and none of us know about it. He could show the original shots when the camera would be on Luke and Leia and then when the camera would be on Padme he could just have two people that resemble Hamill and Fisher from behind.

[NelsonCoressel]

If you look closely at the ending celebration in ROTJ, you can see Mon Mothma somewhere. *I really don't think she's Padme. It does bug me that there is suddenly this anonymous person (nobody ever says her name or what her position is in the movie) is apparently leading the rebellion, so I would like her to have some kind of role in Ep.3, even if it's just for one minute.

But I really don't think Padme and MM are the same. *The more I think about it, the more I like the flashback sequence. It could even be a silent flashback with music or something.

We shall see...

[DblDwn]

Interesting, I never noticed that Mon Mothma was in the final scene during the celebration. In a way that lends a hint of credibility to my idea because at least now she was in the scene when before I did not know that. I'm really beginning to think that there is an alternate ending to ROTJ stored away somewhere that ended up on the cutting room floor.

Look at it this way. The end celebration takes place a short while (a hour or two) after the battles conclude. Up until this point I always believed that it was only people in the battles themselves (Luke, Leia, Han, Lando, Wedge, Chewie, Ewoks, etc.). Why would Lucas have included her in that scene if he wasn't considering adding something down the road. Let me ask you this Nelson since you are the one who saw her in the scene. Aside from Mon Mothma, do you see anyone else who was not in the battle itself like Admiral Ackbar or General Madine? Because if neither of those two are icluded in the scene, why would Lucas only include Mon Mothma unless she was there for a reason?

[ResqJedi]

I've looked everywhere and can't find her! Where did you see her?

[NelsonCoressel]

Unfortunately, my laserdisc player is screwed up and I can't cue up my ROTJ disc. But somewhere during the finale, there is a wide shot of the Ewok camp and there are several circles of characters standing around campfires, etc.
For a couple of seconds, you can see Ackbar, MM and others standing around.

[RollaFett]

Sometime ago, in the old Jedi Council on JediNet, Patrick and I were discussing the payoffs for some of these PT characters. What I mean by this is that you do not see or hear of Qui Gon Jinn or Mace Windu in the OT, do you? Those are examples, another example would be Padme Amidala. The only reference we get is one little exchange between Luke and Leia in ROTJ. My problem with this was now, with the PT, Padme is being clearly established as the mother of Luke and Leia, yet we hear nothig about her during the OT. It seemed as if the PT wouldn't mesh with the OT, as far as this aspect goes, and i wondered what would be the payoff for the character we know as Padme? Patrick came to the concusion that she would be dead by the end of the PT, thus, her importance in the OT becomes, well, unimportant.
All of that said, I don't see how GL can use any scene in ROTJ with Padme being alive. It simply would not make any sense at all. Think about in the order of the story. TPM- we are introduced to Padme. AOTC- She falls in love with Anakin. EP3- Not quite sure what happens yet, but I ssume she dies. ANH- No Padme. ESB- No Padme. ROTJ- No Padme (save for a brief mention of a not well known mother), unless GL decides to stun us all and change the character of Mon Mothma to Padme Amidala! Doesn't that sound a little bit cheap to any of you? As much as I don't like the idea of a flashback scene, that's the only thing that makes sense.
I love all of these movies, but GL has to use a little more sense with all of these special editions, etc., IMO.

[Lonesabre]

In the special edition you can see the scene where they are dancing around the campfire at the end of ROTJ. Admiral Ackbar is definately there but Im not sure about the others...
I have no idea whether this was a deleted scene from the original cut of ROTJ or filmed specially for the SE. I would think that it was extra footage from '82 that wasnt used, therefore adding weight to DblDwn's claim of an alternate ending of ROTJ. Ive heard of a complete alternate Mos Eisley sequence in ANH so why not an alternate ending for ROTJ? Lets face it, it has already been changed once!!!

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[DblDwn]

I'm sure that there were a variety of scenes that were filmed with alternate imagery, dialogue, scenarios, etc. in the OT. Because they were filmed 20-25 years ago, there was no Internet so that is why nobody has ever seen them or knows about them. Being as that Lucas likes to keep his options open for 'down the road', he probably even had the actors in these scenes sign confidentiality agreements regarding these extra, alternate, never-before-seen scenes. Since there was no Internet 25 years ago and there wasn't this big obsession with spoilers and spies reporting from the set in between takes, nobody knew about any of this. So to limit the imagination into believing that only one ending, or one scene in a particular part of the film, exists, is to undermine Lucas' ability to alter the story down the road if the situation and/or the desire presented itself to him.

[longingfor2005]

Originally posted by DblDwn@July 16 2002 - 01:00
I'm sure that there were a variety of scenes that were filmed with alternate imagery, dialogue, scenarios, etc. in the OT. Because they were filmed 20-25 years ago, there was no Internet so that is why nobody has ever seen them or knows about them. Being as that Lucas likes to keep his options open for 'down the road', he probably even had the actors in these scenes sign confidentiality agreements regarding these extra, alternate, never-before-seen scenes. Since there was no Internet 25 years ago and there wasn't this big obsession with spoilers and spies reporting from the set in between takes, nobody knew about any of this. So to limit the imagination into believing that only one ending, or one scene in a particular part of the film, exists, is to undermine Lucas' ability to alter the story down the road if the situation and/or the desire presented itself to him.
You make a very good point but i am forced to disagree. GL Thought up the OT as one big story and then split it into several different movies ( a story that was influenced by many different stories from mythology and other things) and that means he was working with a flowing story that had both a begining and a conclusion. And since this is a story that he put a lot of thought and research into i highly doubt GL decided to make multiple endingd just in case he decided to come back and redo the films and then shoot new ones 20 years later. Filming a scene in a movie, especially a movie like ROTJ, is expensive and it woulndt make economical sense for GL or the studio to shoot multiple endings to a movie just in case GL wanted to come back. I also keep in mind the fact that ROTJ was released a long time before redoing (not remaking) became popluar. That is a fairly new trend in society today and this was also a long time before DVD's wich were what made alternate endings and deleted scenes popular in the first place.

[Lonesabre]

Ok so maybe the Endor moon scenes with Mothma and Ackbar and friends we're just different shots that were done in '82 and never used and edited out of the final versions?

Perhaps it ended differently anyway? After GL took out the ending which included Mon Mothma and Admiral Ackbar he also decided to erase any 'snip-it' shots of them as well to avoid confusion? Only re-editing some of these little snip-its back into the film in '97 for the SE. Tantilisingly leaving the other scenes of them out for the time being while allowing the characters to develope? {Padme Amidala -----> Mon Mothma that is} Surely by this time he would've had much more idea on how to re-use this unused footage for the Ultimate Edition of the Original Trilogy???!!!

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[DblDwn]

Originally posted by longingfor2005@July 16 2002 - 11:41
GL Thought up the OT as one big story and then split it into several different movies ( a story that was influenced by many different stories from mythology and other things) and that means he was working with a flowing story that had both a begining and a conclusion. And since this is a story that he put a lot of thought and research into i highly doubt GL decided to make multiple endingd just in case he decided to come back and redo the films and then shoot new ones 20 years later. Filming a scene in a movie, especially a movie like ROTJ, is expensive and it woulndt make economical sense for GL or the studio to shoot multiple endings to a movie just in case GL wanted to come back.
Lucas has already altered his "flowing story" during the prequels. As Lonesabre and myself have stated before, if Lucas had conceived of the story from beginning to end and split it into parts (episodes) as you suggested, then why has he already altered aspects, important aspects, of the story while filming the PT. In case you haven't read these points before, I'll recap for you: Owen was Obi-Wan's brother 20 years ago, but now he is Anakin's step-brother and has yet to learn of who Obi-Wan is. Yoda trained Obi-Wan 20 years ago because in ESB Obi-Wan tells Luke to, "........go to the Dagobah System. There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me." Now after seeing TPM we all know that again Lucas changed his mind and decided that Qui-Gon instructed Obi-Wan. (I'm saying this blue in the face at this point).........Just because it was true 20-25 years ago, means NOTHING AT THIS POINT. Lucas has altered the story before and this is nothing to suggest that he will not alter it again.

As far as your comment about "expensive" and "economical sense"............do you, or anyone else for that matter, really think that Lucas cares about the money anymore? He got more money for the OT, not just for the movies themselves but in merchandising alone, that he would never have to worry about money again for 10 lifetimes. Now with the $430 million that TPM made, minus merchandising, and the $300+ million that AOTC made, again minus merchandising, plus the fact that he is a Producer of various Spielberg movies, which means he is making a ton of cash off those as well because everyone goes to see a Spielberg movie, he has become so wealthy that it is unfathomable to any of us to conceive of it. Now to make a long story short (too late I know) he could care less about spending the money to re-shoot a scene here and a scene there in the OT. He also could really care less if we, the older fans, agree with how he sees HIS saga concluding, both in the PT and anything redone to the OT. He has said before that his target audience is children, the people in our cultures that still dream the dream and have open imaginations to endless possibilities.

What better way to conclude a saga, for children, than to have the father redeem himself and make good on his destiny and to have the hero son and the hero daughter reunited with the Mother they could never know about. So he ended it differently in 1983. Big deal. If he had thrown Padme in there somewhere we all, at that point, would have looked at each other and said, "Who is this?" and "What is going on here?" because none of us knew of the backstory concerning her cause, her relationship with Anakin, and her in general. To throw that in there at that point would have offset the story. To throw her in after seeing the entire saga makes it not only coincide, but it also makes it that much sweeter.

Lonesabre, are we just talking to ourselves, or are other people just not getting the point here. Sometimes it seems as if no one pays attention to a thing we say because I don't know about you, but I have to constantly repeat myself. The first paragraph is a perfect example of that.

[Lonesabre]

Hey man I posted one at the exact same time as you! WEIRD!

But not as weird, I agree, as the fact that me and you are coming up with these brilliant ideas that no one else seems to notice/accept/even read!!!

Checkout my comment on the EP3 spoilers - 'there is another' thread!

Not that is one of my most weird ideas yet!

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[DblDwn]

I can't find that thread. Which one is it?

[Lonesabre]

This is where it is, it is currently on the second page of the Ep3 spoilers!

My comments are on there and circulate around Luke & Leia

'There is another...' (Pages 1 2 )
Keeping Leia under wraps until Ep. VI

Id like to hear your thoughts on that thread there!

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[RollaFett]

Dbldwn and Lonesabre- I get what you guys are suggesting, I just don't happen to agree with it, is that OK? Did either of you guys read my post regarding this issue and why having Padme appear in the OT, alive, makes no sense?
Hell, none of us know exactly what GL has in store for Portman's ROTJ scenes, but we're allowed to speculate. That's all we are doing. As of now, we know nothing regarding this, you guys sound as though you are caught up in selling your theories as fact. Just calm down a little.
OK, I'm done ranting for now. :whatsthat:

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by GollaFett@July 16 2002 - 22:51
Dbldwn and Lonesabre- I get what you guys are suggesting, I just don't happen to agree with it, is that OK? Did either of you guys read my post regarding this issue and why having Padme appear in the OT, alive, makes no sense?
Hell, none of us know exactly what GL has in store for Portman's ROTJ scenes, but we're allowed to speculate. That's all we are doing. As of now, we know nothing regarding this, you guys sound as though you are caught up in selling your theories as fact. Just calm down a little.
OK, I'm done ranting for now. :whatsthat:
Ease back there on the throttle buddy, you're more than welcome to agree, disagree, or any other form of -ree that you want to do. I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm trying to sell anyone on anything. It's more simple than that. If you agree with me, good for you. If you happen to disagree, then you are wrong (that was a joke).

I was talking to my mom today and I love her to death, she is my best friend in the world, but she is a stubborn lady. I told her about this idea about Padme being Mon Mothma and gave her my argument that I have given throughout here. She even liked the idea. And I know she wasn't just saying that because she is the type that would tell me straight up that it was not a good idea if she really felt that way.

I don't understand how you can say that having Padme turn out to be alive in the OT makes no sense. Having Greedo shoot first, makes no sense. Having people appear and speak from the dead makes no sense. Having this ancient wizardry thing-a-ma-jig.........what's it called again? The Force or something? That doesn't make sense. The entire premise of the saga makes no sense. So again, not to be rude, pushy, or anything else that will be misconstrued from this, I just want to know what is it about having Padme alive in the OT that doesn't make sense?

[DblDwn]

Yeah, so I accidentally did that last one twice because it didn't come up the first time so I am now editing the second one by typing about nothing of any importance.

[Lonesabre]

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion, of course.

All we were saying is that the thought of a 'flashback' or 'ghost' scene are vomit inducing at best!

Id prefer that Natalie Portman filming for ROTJ remain as they are - just rumours - than be subjected to anything of that standard of storytelling!

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[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@July 17 2002 - 18:11
All we were saying is that the thought of a 'flashback' or 'ghost' scene are vomit inducing at best!
Yeah that whole corny flashback idea does make the bile churn a bit doesn't it?

Lonesabre, how you been buddy?

Everyone is now saying "We were this" and "We were that"...........have we inadvertantly started a gang war regarding this topic or something? If so, I get to be the Godfather of the Padme will be Mon Mothma side.

All joking aside, it is true, we do all have the right to our own opinions and at this point all of us are doing nothing more than speculating and tossing around ideas. Let's all do the Administrators a favor, take a deep breath, and ease up on the combative posts for at least a day or two. A little cease fire is always good.

Let's lighten the mood and joke around for a little bit about dumb stuff like.............Padme and Chewbacca have an affair in Episode III and the result is Wicket. Then at the end of ROTJ she is exposed as the leader of the Ewoks after she gets back from France and decides to shave all the hair off. Right there, light-hearted and completely off the wall dumb. Hopefully, everyone got at least a chuckle out of that.

[RollaFett]

(Easing off the throttle...)

Dbldwn- Sorry if I appeared to be coming on a little strong, but if you double check one of your recent posts, you could be guilty of the same thing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Lonesabre, are we just talking to ourselves, or are other people just not getting the point here. Sometimes it seems as if no one pays attention to a thing we say because I don't know about you, but I have to constantly repeat myself. The first paragraph is a perfect example of that.[/b][/quote]

In any case, I have stated my reasonings for Padme being alive in the OT making no sense. I was pretty thourough with my explanation, but I'll guess I'll have to repeat myself just like you did earlier, huh? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

I had a discussion with another member some time ago regarding character 'payoffs' for the PT. By 'payoffs', I mean how a character's role concludes by the end of the story. Cosidering how we hear nothing about Padme throughout the OT, except for a very small reference by Leia in ROTJ to her unidentified mother, it would be ill-concieved to reintroduce her as if she were there all along. With what we know of her involvement in the OT to date, it would make a helluva lot more sense to have Padme's payoff occurr in the PT, don't you think?
All of that said, I fully understand where you guys are going with your theories, and I do recognize the fact that GL can go back and change whatever he pleases, hell he's done it before and will most likely do it again. That doesn't mean that it has to make sense, now does it? Example: Having Greedo shoot first just destroys the aura of Han Solo's ruthlessness and survival code. In short, it makes no sense.
I also agree that a flashback scene could turn out to be sickening, but it's the only scene that I can see making sense.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by GollaFett@July 17 2002 - 20:39
(Easing off the throttle...)

Dbldwn- Sorry if I appeared to be coming on a little strong, but if you double check one of your recent posts, you could be guilty of the same thing.

.
I agree completely..........I also need to shift gears and lower my own RPM's as well. An apology wasn't necessary but I thank you all the same and I too wish to apologize to you as well.

[Lonesabre]

Ive added my opinions DblDwn.

If we have anything else to say, other than on a particular thread, I think we should post it on this one!

See you later!

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[longingfor2005]

Okay i would like to ask a question to the person who says that owen was obi wans brother, i am a longtime fan of star wars and this is the first time i have ever heard of this i myself have a pre TPM resource book that contradicts this (i dont know where it is right now though). I just want to say right now to avoid a future argument that i am not doubting what you said but am in actuality quite interested in hearing more about it.

I highly doubt that Mon Mothma is Padme but i am not so ignorant or overly proud that i will not admit that it is a probability. But form what i have heard this theory comes from a dream sequence in TPM novelization that was put in there by Terry Brooks and was not part of the script. I also beleive that putting in a flashback is highly probable for an important reason. GL has been stating for a long time that SW is the story of Anakin Skywalker but until the recent relase of TPM and AOTC that simply was not the case, befoe the PT started coming out it was LUke becoming a Jedi Knight and redeeming his father. Until PT eleaborated on him a little DV was never as important as Luke was but recemtly GL has been saying the OT and PT was the story of the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. By putting in a flashback to what happened to Padme you could increase Vaders importance to the story of the last chapter iun the SW saga and help elaborate on who his character is and what where the things that motivated him before and after his fall into darkness, Having Padme magically become Mon Mothma is to convenient and overly happy as an ending. Besides i doubt that DV would obsses over Luke but would ignore his wife, as well as i doubt that Padme would let Luke remain ignorant of his origins as Obi wan did because she was a lot more straightforward and didnt beat around the bush as much as obi wan did, nor would she put her son in more danger by not letting him know why he was the focus of Vadersa obsession.


Oh well thats just my opinion anyway.

p.s. I did read your earlier posts dblwn its just ive read and heard different stories and interviews on the matter. YOu havet read it yet you should pick up a copy of star wars: the mag. It goes into great detail about the process wich GL went through to create the SW saga and also says stuff the supports your argument that GL changes story elements to make things more convenient. For example in ROTJ the final confrontation with DV and the emperor was supposed to take place in an underground base on a Lava planet but that was canned at the last minute and moved to the interior of the death star because if time and budget restraints.

[DblDwn]

Your points are not without merit LongingFor and they are very valid within this discussion.

As far as the "Owen was Obi-Wan's brother claim" that myself and my compadres made, it is in the novelization for ROTJ. When Obi-Wan is speaking to Luke the truth about his father, after Yoda's death, Obi-Wan tells Luke that he took Luke to live with his brother Owen and his wife Beru. I know everyone will say that it is a book and has nothing to do with Lucas and the movies, as well as the dream sequence with Anakin in TPM novel with which I quoted from as an example of the Padme is Mon Mothma claim, but both Brooks (TPM) and Salvatore (AOTC) are getting info directly from Lucas while writing these books. Examples of which are both the fact that the books come out before the movies and much of the dialogue is in exact accordance with that of the movies, so they both clearly had copies of the script and/or detailed info from Lucasfilm regarding the subject matter and also that basically all of the parts of, at least, the AOTC novel that are not in the movie (Anakin meeting Padme's family, Mace seeing Obi-Wan off before departing for Kamino, etc.) are all scenes that were filmed for the movie and just removed from the final cut of the film due to time contraints (can you say deleted scenes for the DVD?). That being said, is there any reason to believe that Obi-Wan telling Luke that he took him to his brother Owen was in fact actually filmed originally but cut out of the final reel of the film so as to shorten that conversation for time reasons. Since there were no DVD's in 1983-84, there was no way to include deleted scenes as there are today. So that is clearly a direct example of Lucas changing his mind down the road.

That is the reason why I believe Anakin's dream in TPM novel holds more clout than some people are willing to give it. For all we know, it could just be a random inclusion in the novel to build story, or it could be foreshadowing events to transpire in Episode III, or it may very well be that Lucas had decided back in 1999 that he would change the outcome of ROTJ to make Padme turn out to be Mon Mothma. Keep in mind that it is just a theory/idea. Whether it comes true or not none of us will know for another 3-4 years. My whole point is that it is a very realistic possibility that should be considered. Nothing more, nothing less.

You also brought up a good example LongingFor regarding Lucas deciding to have the final duel take place on the Death Star as opposed to some never-before-seen lava land. As myself and Lonesabre have both stated previously, Lucas has had darn near 20 years to change his mind on various aspects of the story and, not to repeat myself but what the hey, just because he has changed the story before, does not mean that he will not change it again.

Here's a thought out of nowhere............Perhaps when Leia is born Padme accompanies her and Bail to Alderaan. As I said before if Padme were to turn out to be Mon Mothma she would leave Alderaan once the Rebellion is formed and ready to go. Hence, that could take 3-5 years at which point she would leave and Leia would believe her to be dead so as to coincide with the remembrance of her that Leia has in ROTJ with Luke. LongingFor brought up a point about how Vader would obsess over his wife if he knew her to be alive. Keep in mind that she would lead from afar and never endanger revealing herself, or go anywhere near anywhere that Vader and/or the Emperor would be able to sense her presence. If they could sense her presence from anywhere, they would at least be able to sense Obi-Wan's presence from anywhere as well. As I've stated before, in the AOTC novel, when she walks into Palpatine's office with Bail, Jar Jar, etc after the assassination attempt, Yoda mentions something about sensing that the Force is with her (I know not in the movie, but after what I said above it should be considered as part of Lucas' story omitted from the movie). Here's the kicker though, she has many decoys who act like her, die in her place, etc............what if one of these decoys is killed in her place and Vader and the Emperor believe it to be here that is killed? That could explain why they never think to even attempt to track her down because they already believe her to be dead. Much like I suspect they believe Yoda to already be dead because neither Vader nor the Emperor ever make reference to Yoda in the OT. They only mention Obi-Wan because, after facing Vader on the first Death Star, they knew that he had been alive.

[Lonesabre]

I like the points you have made there DblDwn, as always.

A thought of the scene on Endor when Luke asks Leia about her mother. The only thing that had been bothering me only slightly about the Padme as Mothma threory was this secne when Leia says she died when she was very young.

I have believed that Padme was hidden as a hand maiden to Bail Organas wife and that Leia was refering to Mrs Organa. But this would surely take away from the power of this scene. Now I have come to believe that Leia believes Padme to be dead. Only for Padme to be revealed as Mon Mothma at the end. This would help to be another way of binding the two trilogies together. I realise that this scenario might seem a little sickly sweet, but handled correctly it would be a very satisfying conclusion to the trilogy.

In my opinion anyways!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

[DblDwn]

The handmaiden idea is a possibility Lonesabre. That is a way for the story to still go along with Luke and Leia's chat in ROTJ regarding her mother.

I hadn't seen a new post on here in three days and just wanted to make sure everyone is still breathing out there. Hopefully some of you have been doing your homework and are ready to contribute something of value to this chat (just a joke).

[RollaFett]

Nothing of value from me. :whatsthat:

[Lonesabre]

If Padme turns out to be Mon Mothma...

Imagine somebody in the audience who is a Stawars fan but doesnt anaylise every portion as we do. They are watching the completed saga from I-VI...

Imagine there reaction of seeing Padme standing there in the briefing room on the Mon Cal space cruiser...
Especially if after the end of EPIII and her no-show in EPVI and EPV they thought she had perished or at least would not be appearing in the OT...

Its all about crowd reaction that would make this theory worth while.

Personally, I think it would be pretty darn cool!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

[QuigonWindu]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif OMG did some body just agrre that Padme will be Mon Mothma. I think I'm gonna pass out. Somebody else thinks that. Although it is an easily reachable conclusion. They sound alike. They both love the republic. They were both senators. It all makes sense.

[Lonesabre]

Hang on Quigonwindu, you believe she will be Mothma as well do you? Well if you do welcome to the club!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[DblDwn]

Lonesabre, is it just me........or have we done a fairly decent job in obtaining colleagues regarding this topic?

[Lonesabre]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif

I think we've got the 'believers' up to about five or six now DblDwn! Not bad at all.

I still think that there is some more information in the OT that will reinforce our claims...

But for the mean time we've got it going on!!!! I mean when was the last post of someone saying about the ghost or flashback scenarios hey???

My point exactly!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[Mann]

Count me in Dbldwn. You made some good points, and I think the novelization of TPM spells it out pretty well. I'm with you!

[QuigonWindu]

Yea I have a long list of reaons why she could be Mon Mothma. It's posted somewhere around the site.It went like:

1. Darth Vader is dutch for Dark Father. Maybe Mon Mothma is dutch for mother or something like that.

2. Natalie Portman took voice classes before TPM by order of GL. Mon Mothma took the same type of voice lessons for ROTJ.

3. It is clear that Mon Mothma was a senator before the clone wars, like Padme.

4. In a scene cut out of TPM Anakin told Padme he dreamed of her leading many troops into battle. I don't remember her doing that in TPM or AOTC.

There are many more reasons.

[DblDwn]

It seems as if we are starting our own 'Separitist' movement regarding this theory of ours. Good work everyone. Let's continue to rally more people to our cause.

[Obidobi]

Add me to your list.
I belive that MM is Padme until proven otherwise in 2005.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Darth Darthy]

call me cynical but this is one of the silliest ideas I've heard yet. Would Mon Mothma not have talked to Luke after he gets back from Degobah in ROTJ?

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Darth Darthy@July 23 2002 - 18:44
call me cynical but this is one of the silliest ideas I've heard yet. Would Mon Mothma not have talked to Luke after he gets back from Degobah in ROTJ?
As I'm sure that my compadres will agree, I concede the fact that in the OT version and SE version of ROTJ that Mon Mothma was just that and that Padme was dead at that point. Where our belief comes from is the point that Lucas has changed the story from the OT while making the PT and that once he makes the final "Ultimate Editions" of the OT, he will again change a thing or two or three or etc. One of which we believe to be changing the story so that Padme is Mon Mothma, leader of the Rebellion against the Empire.

So you see based on that very logical conclusion we don't believe it to be silly at all. All we ask is that you consider everything which we have said and think about it. If you agree, great. If not, we shall see who is right in three years.

[Lonesabre]

As DblDwn has said, if, in 1983, George had had Mon Mothma come forward just after the briefing scene or at the Endor celebrations and introduce herself it just plainly wouldnt make sense.

But, waiting until 2005 and viewing the six films as the whole saga {as it has ALWAYS ment to be seen} and looking at the bigger picture this scenario suddenly becomes extremely poignant and adds yet another level to the saga.

Plus I think it'll be damn cool!!!

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[RollaFett]

Hey, I'm back and I say your theory stinks. :sarcasm:

PS- Couldn't let you guys get too comfortable. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[Dark Skywalker 9]

DblDwn & Sabre....

I see our supporters have been growing over the past few days. No matter if Padme is or isn't Mon Mothma this is one hell of a debate.

And Dbldwn if you're the Godfather of the Padme is MM crew then I'll take my post as a capo! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sneaky2.gif

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by GollaFett@July 24 2002 - 22:19
Hey, I'm back and I say your theory stinks. *:sarcasm:

PS- Couldn't let you guys get too comfortable. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif
I was just beginning to believe that we had gotten rid of you. Just joking man. Good to see someone with a different opinion return because I was starting to let my guard down a little.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Dark Skywalker 9@July 24 2002 - 22:38
DblDwn & Sabre....

I see our supporters have been growing over the past few days. No matter if Padme is or isn't Mon Mothma this is one hell of a debate.

And Dbldwn if you're the Godfather of the Padme is MM crew then I'll take my post as a capo! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sneaky2.gif
Yeah, our theories are gaining much support as of late. I guess people are actually starting to consider what they read before immediately dismissing it because it may differ from what they had thought.

OK DS9, I'll be the Godfather and Lonesabre and yourself can be my Underboss and my Consigliere.

[Lonesabre]

I like it, being the right hand man baddest ass in the galaxy!!

This thread is definately the most important on the Classic Trilogy section.

I think we need to think of some more points and re-list the ideas that we have already in a concise list for other people to see clearly our points of view.

:look:

ps DblDwn, I like your 'disagreement' shall we say {?} with HCL on the Spoilers thread, hopefully I've weighed in and ended that entire thread forever...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@July 25 2002 - 05:53
ps DblDwn, I like your 'disagreement' shall we say {?} with HCL on the Spoilers thread, hopefully I've weighed in and ended that entire thread forever...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif
That is a nightmare over there. You are correct on that.

OK, since I am one of the people for Padme becoming Mon Mothma, I'll list the pros of what I like to call, "The Theory."

Pros:
1) Lucas confirmed that Natalie Portman will be in the DVD release of ROTJ.
2) There are only three possible scenarios for that: spirit at the end, flashback, and Mon Mothma........the first two of which are pretty much absurd.
3) Anakin's dream in TPM novel about Padme leading an army against him. Could the army be the Rebellion? We shall see.
4) Mon Mothma was in the Senate, Padme is in the Senate. I was even reading something yesterday, don't recall where, and it said that Mon Mothma was the youngest ever elected to the Senate before Leia was. Now isn't Padme currently the youngest member of the Senate? Hmmmmm.
5) Lucas likes to change the story so that it coincides better in the greater whole of the saga. Meaning, as has been, if Lucas had thrown in that Mon Mothma was Padme at the end of ROTJ, nobody would have understood it. Now, after the PT, and that we know who she is and what her significance to the saga is, it would make sense. Maybe not even to some of us, but certainly to people in 20-30 years watching the saga in order from Episode I to Episode VI.
6) Padme could go to Alderaan with Leia and stay with her until the Rebellion has been set up. Then, when Leia is still "very young", Padme would leave to lead the Rebellion and change her name to Mon Mothma to conceal her actual identity from the Empire. Since she up and leaves one day while Leia is "very young", she will believe her mother to have died so as to go along with the Luke and Leia discussion in ROTJ.
7) Because I said so (In my mind's eye that's enough for me).

Lonsabre, DS9 and all the other supporters, if I missed something please add it.

For all the doubters, please create a list of cons to counter my list of pros so that we may compare and contrast. Thank you.

[QuigonWindu]

You know what would be cool. If during the celebration at the end. Luke trips over R2-D2 and it messes up something inside. Then it plays an old message that reveals Mon Mothma to be Padme in some way.

[Dark Skywalker 9]

Great summation there, DblDwn. It's gonna be tough for someone to argue against those points. Point #7 is very fitting since you've taken title as the Godfather. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sneaky2.gif

Guess we'll all find out who was right in 3-4 years once the ROTJ DVD gets released...

Long live "The Theory."

-- CONSIGLIERE DS9 -- style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

[Lonesabre]

Yes great summarising DblDwn, I'll be your hitman if thats ok!!!

Checkout the "padmes fate poll"!!!!!!!!!!!

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It gives me warm feelings...

[longingfor2005]

I would like to say one thing. Though i do not beleive this theory to be true i will admit that it is a possibility. I would also like to point out that i am a huge fan of Pamde and nothing would please me more then to be proven wrong here bu i just dont see it happening.

a CON list huh? well ill try

1. Natalie Portman is the only person beside L who knows what happens in the PT. I remember an interview were he said he told NP what happens in great detail after she was cast as Padme because he felt it would help Natalie play the character and natalie portman has said in several interviews that she feels vad for Padme for her eventual fate and the things that will eventually happen to her

2.I know ive said this before but in the interests of this list ill say it again. The Anakin/Padme army dream srquence happened in a book and not the movie.

3. I have the Star wars essential guide to characters and it includes the EU stuff. Now i admit that im no expert on EU and if im wrong please correct me but wouldnt making PAdme Mon mothma completely destryo the EU? They have completely told the history of Mothma in those books and some of that history is tied into stuff that has happened in the novels. THis would nullify the entire EU and piss of millions of EU fans and we know from the Nar Abadon/Coruscant example that GL is willing to make allowances for the sake of the books

[RollaFett]

DblDwn, Lonesabre, and all other supporters...your theory stinks! So there! Argue against that logic, will you!?

[RollaFett]

Okay, seriously, I'll discuss this topic once again. I jest when I say your the theory stinks, I've said this in the past, but it beared repeating.
Anyway, since we know that Portman is signed on for something in ROTJ and we have to assume the role would be Padme, what could she possibly do? The options have been presented and I agree with them (flashback, spirit, Mon Mothma). Let me add that I think it is a bad idea to include her in ROTJ in any form. In the grand scheme of things, Padme's payoff should occur in the PT. (Interesting that I have mentioned this before and heard zero feedback, yet now you guys are clamoring for counter-arguments. Hmmm....)
Now, if GL had decided to include Padme in ANH in some way as well, then seeing her in ROTJ might make more sense, if indeed we are assuming she is Mon Mothma. But if ROTJ would be her one and only OT appearance, then most viewers would be left with the "where has she been all this time" feeling. I know I would. Also, this theory is plucked from a short passage in a novel, in essence, EU. We all know that EU cannot be thought of as fact in the SW universe.

As far as a spirit goes, well that would just plain suck. Forget about cut scenes for a minute. We, as the audience, have not been presented with any evidence stating that Padme has anything to do with the force, so having her appear with other Jedi would make no sense. The only way GL *could make sense of that scenario would be if he revealed in EP3 that Padme has the force in her. That would actually go along with the pacing of the OT, as far as that was when we first learned that Leia had the force. But without that explanation, it wouldn't make sense.

A flashback would be the most likely, because it requires no previous setup or changing of original ideas. Would it suck? Quite possibly, but who knows?

All of that said, I know full well how GL is capable of changing his mind and redoing whatever he pleases. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

[DblDwn]

Golla and LongingFor both make good arguments but I still don't buy the flashback. Lucas has never had a flashback scene and Lucas will never have a flashback scene.

I could see the spirit at the end maybe working. It would show that Anakin, by destroying the Emperor and balancing the Force, really did obtain the ability to stop people from dying. Granted she would still be dead, but her 'living spirit' would re-appear and live on with Anakin, Yoda and OBi-Wan (sounds kinky huh?) Then Luke would look over and see his mother there beside his father and it would be a big happy ending and everyone is happy because Luke brought his parents back together in death.

That is the ending of ROTJ "Disney Edition". Probably not going to happen.

Let me put it this way, if Mon Mothma is introduced in Episode III, then Padme is not Mon Mothma (obviously). But if Mon Mothma is not introduced in Episode III and we are still supposed to believe her vague introduction during the briefing scene in ROTJ, then Padme is Mon Mothma.

[RollaFett]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Let me put it this way, if Mon Mothma is introduced in Episode III, then Padme is not Mon Mothma (obviously). But if Mon Mothma is not introduced in Episode III and we are still supposed to believe her vague introduction during the briefing scene in ROTJ, then Padme is Mon Mothma.[/b][/quote]

huh?

[Lonesabre]

Its as easy as that Golla...

Dont know where else to put this and dont want to start a whole new thread for a simple question, so here will do.

On the Millenium Falcon in ROTJ there is Lando and Nien Numb right? Well Ive always wondered why, in the background {where Leia and C-3PO sit in TESB}, is there a rebel commando wearing his forest combat helmet?

Is it possible he got on the wrong transport for dropping off???

Just a quick reply please as I dont want to stray too far from the main thread!!!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Obi-Stu]

To Lonesabre, DblDwn & the Mon Mothma conspirists

Hey I'm with you on this. I don't buy the flashback story at all.

As for the rebel comando, I think Lando won him from Han in a last minute card game. *???

[DblDwn]

Yet another individual opens their eyes to the obvious. Welcome to the team Obi-Stu.

[Jedi Master Yung]

Count one more for the good guys!

I'm ready to buy into The Theory. I just think that if P is MM then MM shoul dbe played up more (somehow I don't know) early than just appearing in ROTJ and, BANG, WOW, she's L&L mom. But like I said I like the Theory.


style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grouphug.gif :grouphug:

[DblDwn]

Welcome aboard Jedi Master Yung

[Rinc]

I'm with Gollafett and longingfor. What should we call ourselves? How about the Anti-PIMM (Padme is Mon Mothma) alliance?

There is no way that GL would just spring the "Padme is in fact Mon Mothma" thing on us when Padme is such an important character in the PT and Mon Mothma is in ROTJ for about a minute. We don't even see her celebrating at end, we see Ackhbar though. Hey wait a minute! Maybe Padme got involved in some big gene experimentation with fish and is actually Ackhbar.

Wouldn't Leia feel a bit hard done by as well? Surely if theres a reason for bringing back the dark side it would be that your mums actually been alive all the time and you've been working for her in the rebellion but she never thought to tell you because it would have drastic consequences (can somebody point these out to me). I can understand Ben not telling Luke about Vader/Anakin but is there actually any valid reason for concealing Padme/Mon Mothma's identity from Leia?

[Obi-Stu]

Well my wife doesn't buy the Mon Mothma - Padme connection. In fact I'm not allowed to mention it again. I think
I have my sister convinced though.

I don't think there has to be any grand revelation that Padme is in fact the leader of the rebelion. Just to see her leading the battle plan should be enough to tie the story together.

I do agree that it would screw the EU up a bit, but as discussed at length before, GL can do as he likes.

[DblDwn]

No offense Obi-Stu but you need to tell your wife that she must unlearn that which she has learned. Your sister is clearly wise beyond her years (not to belittle your wife though).

I'm not George Lucas, nor do any of the "co-conspiritors" claim to be, but this IS the only rational and logical way for Natalie to be in ROTJ. I appreciate that both you and your sister are in agreement with our idea, and I respect your wife for choosing to differ in her opinion, but, as far as I can tell, it truly is the only way for Portman's fine little booty to be in ROTJ.

On a side note..............so what if it screws up the EU? Lucas has no loyalty to the EU anyway.

[Obi-Stu]

I agree DblDwn, If we are to see Natalie squeezed into ROTJ, then this is the only way I would like to see her. What point would flashbacks make? I don't think it would serve any purpose as most people would have seen the first episodes anyway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>We don't even see her celebrating at end, we see Ackhbar though. [/b][/quote]

Well, we will be able to see her join the celebration now, the scene could be changed again.

[Lonesabre]

She might not even have to reveal herself to Luke and Leia in ROTJ, imagine being in the audience and seeing her giving the briefing scene!!! It might be enough for the audience to know and not the twins. This could link in if there were any more films afterwards {7-9?}.

You could just see Padme giving a slight smile whilst joining in with her children at the Endor celebrations, and maybe even catching a glimpse of a spectrel Anakin out of the corner of her eye...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scatter.gif :saber:

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Rinc@Aug. 01 2002 - 17:58
There is no way that GL would just spring the "Padme is in fact Mon Mothma" thing on us when Padme is such an important character in the PT and Mon Mothma is in ROTJ for about a minute.

I can understand Ben not telling Luke about Vader/Anakin but is there actually any valid reason for concealing Padme/Mon Mothma's identity from Leia?
The above two points are very good ones. Padme has had significant time in the PT, as well as importance. In the OT, Mon Mothma has had extremely little. If Mon Mothma is Padme, where's she been? Why hasn't she had a much, much larger role.

And why would her identity be hidden from Leia? That might make some sense in the beginning, but by the time of ROTJ, Leia should have been told. And like Polunis has said, how would this be brought up in ROTJ? Is she going to just walk up to Leia and say "Hey, I'm your mother." Or is she going to continue to hide her identity. If so, why? I think the whole thing would be kind of awkward.

Maybe Lucas hasn't done flashbacks, but that would probably come off better.

[RollaFett]

The fact that we haven't seen flashbacks previously, doesn't mean that we won't see one. Dbldwn, Lonesabre, Obi-Stu, Jedi Master Yung, and all other delusional Padme is Mon Mothma beleivers, please...GET A GRIP!!!! Think about how much sense it would make in the continuity of the story. I mean really think about it. You guys make me want to do this... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif

[RollaFett]

Rinc- BTW, thanks for the support.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by GollaFett@Aug. 04 2002 - 14:53
Dbldwn, Lonesabre, Obi-Stu, Jedi Master Yung, and all other delusional Padme is Mon Mothma beleivers, please...
I thought you were begging us to "please teach you how to brainstorm and process thought as brilliantly as we are able to do."

[Mann]

Just saw return of the Jedi, and I noticed that Mon Mohtma has Blue eyes and redish hair, while Pdme has Brown eyes and hair.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Mann@Aug. 04 2002 - 15:24
Just saw return of the Jedi, and I noticed that Mon Mohtma has Blue eyes and redish hair, while Pdme has Brown eyes and hair.
OK now you are being way to literal. That's like saying that R2-D2 in the PT has jet rockets, but in the OT he doesn't so it must be different droids. Also C3PO in the PT is more of a silver, incomplete color while in the OT he is gold so they also must be different droids.

[droid-desease]

Padme is most probably going to
appeare in ROTJ in form of a hologram..

i have heard that
there is going to be a scene
added right after vader
talks with luke on that small
bridge connecting AT-AT and
the platform..you know that sequence..
"i know father...so you have accepted the truth?"

and when Luke says:
"than my father is trully dead"
then we se vader stearing
in the woods like he is thinking of something.
and of course we all know he is begining
to have a conflict in him..
and right after that shot
there is supose to be a scene
where vader goes somewhere
and replays and old padme's hologram
recording and watches it..

if this is true like i heard it is
the i am really excited about it...
it will be so emotionally strong
(at least for me)..seeing
the dark lord in *a different light..
just before the climax...the big battle
and all...there is so much on vaders mind
and so much is going to happen
soon and he knows that..
and now he knows that he
is evil and is doing all the wrong things
but he realises it is to late..
and so just before everything starts
to roll he just wants a moment of peace
with his long lost love padme.
It would be so cool...
and it would show that vader has
a heart deep down inside and that
he is having conflicts and doubt
and still feels something for his son
and his girlfriend..oh sorry wife..
they were married.

It would be one of those romantic and emotional
scenes like the one where Luke
is stearing in the twin suns...
that scene has so much power in it
and i think this one would have too
if the rumour is true

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by droid-desease@Aug. 04 2002 - 20:10
Padme is most probably going to
appeare in ROTJ in form of a hologram..
That sounds great. It would work perfectly and would make a lot more sense that some of the other ideas that have been suggested. I hope you're right.

[Mann]

Dbldwn, not to add to the detractors of your arguement, but when you say I'm being literal, I hope I am. Images in star wars stick in the minds of people. We like to see things come together and concure with one another. Seeing R2 with Jet Packs was just a little bit to have fun with. He never needed them in the OT I believe. Seeing Padme completly change her looks whould be something. She could be A leader of the Rebellion. But maybe not. I like your points though, you've backed them up and I enjoy your enthusiasm.

[Rinc]

Originally posted by GollaFett@Aug. 04 2002 - 19:56
Rinc- BTW, thanks for the support.
Think nothing of it. Great minds think alike. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[RollaFett]

droid-disease- <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Padme is most probably going to
appeare in ROTJ in form of a hologram..[/b][/quote]

I don't know where you heard that, but I think that is a great way for padme to appear in ROTJ. Once again, I'll say that I think a Padme appearance in ROTJ is a bad idea, but if it is done in that context, well, that sounds the most logical.

Dbldwn- <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I thought you were begging us to "please teach you how to brainstorm and process thought as brilliantly as we are able to do.[/b][/quote]

My, aren't you the funny one?

Rinc- <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Think nothing of it. Great minds think alike. [/b][/quote]

I guess they do. What do you think of the scenario that droid-disease presented? Hell, what does everyone else think as well?! C'mon, it certainly falls more in line than Mon Mothma, doesn't it? C'mon?!?!?!?!?!?! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by GollaFett@Aug. 05 2002 - 23:59
I guess they do. What do you think of the scenario that droid-disease presented? Hell, what does everyone else think as well?! C'mon, it certainly falls more in line than Mon Mothma, doesn't it? C'mon?!?!?!?!?!?! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif
So far, the hologram idea sounds the best. It would fit in perfectly and would tie in nicely with the PT.

[droid-desease]

I would like to thank you all for saying that
the hologram idea i brought here is
the best but i didn't make it up..
i have read it somwhere and i just
can't remember where..if i find the article
ill keep you all informed.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tie.gif :saber:

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Mann@Aug. 04 2002 - 23:36
I like your points though, you've backed them up and I enjoy your enthusiasm.

Thank you for that

Does anyone else look at the way droid_desease's posts are written and think that they should rhythm or something?

[droid-desease]

what? could you please explain?

[Obi-Stu]

I think it has to do with the layout of you posts with short sentences and short paragraphs.

Right DblDwn?
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[droid-desease]

yea know that,im sorry,do you all have a problem with that?

[Lonesabre]

I just think that he ment it looks a bit funny, like how a poem is usually set up thats all, dont worry!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Obi-Stu@Aug. 07 2002 - 07:14
I think it has to do with the layout of you posts with short sentences and short paragraphs.

Right DblDwn?
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
Exactly

[Lonesabre]

Cool profile picture DblDwn! Checked out the one of me and my hunny?!

Your PM Inbox is full mate!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[gregfett]

i think the only way to justify Anakin becoming Darth Vader would be for his only love to die... otherwise i would be pretty dissapointed. you dont become a dark lord of the sith without a good reason...

[droid-desease]

that is a good point but there is a fact that
Luke and Leia were born without Anakin knwoing..
and oby-wan took them away and hid them
from Vader...tham must mean that Padme and Oby-wan did not want Anakin to know about his kids..and the only reason for that would be because he would have wanted them to become siths like he wants in ROTJ.So i think there will
be something else that urns Anakin to a sith..
But i must admit that this idea of Anakin turning to the dark side because of her death sounds great..and
it would look great,it's just that id doesn't fit in well into the saga...but maybe Lucas will make it be like that.

[gregfett]

i think she may die giving birth....

[Mann]

Well, what about the fact that Leia knows about her mom? It's so confusing!

[gregfett]

i also asked the jedi council at star wars official site and they said mon mothma, tarkin, and chewbecca will not be in episode 3
' style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

[gregfett]

leia remembers brief images and luke does not.. since leia has a keen sense of the force her memory may be better...

[Lonesabre]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> also asked the jedi council at star wars *official site and they said mon mothma, tarkin, and chewbecca will not be in *episode 3
[/b][/quote]

Hey DblDwn you seeing this? If Mon Mothma isnt in Ep III surely this means theres more chance that a certain young senator grows up to be her.....

The plot thickens!



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>leia remembers brief images and luke does not.. since leia has a keen sense of the force her memory may be better... [/b][/quote]

Good point! But I think Leia might not be talking about her 'real' mother {padme} but instead maybe Mrs Organa...?

But then that would take away from the power of that scene on Endor.

Another thought about the flashback idea. Flashbacks would usually be memories right? But surely Leia would be too young to remember her 'real' mother in any great detail to warrant a flashback???

Oh well!

:roll: *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[DblDwn]

Yeah I'm seeing this and I think that we have converted all that we are capable of. Anyone who has yet to jump on our ship isn't going to at this point. That's ok though because whether we are right, or they are right, doesn't matter in the end. What matters is that we had fun discussing the many different scenarios for Natalie's inclusion in ROTJ. I really enjoy this thread because it started out as a few different ideas that people either agreed with or not and once everyone chose which idea they trusted it became more of a debate for people to attempt to convince others to agree with their respective opinions and those are the exact things that site should be about. Not that I am saying we should close this thread and not that I am going anywhere but I just wanted to thank everyone for making this a fun one.

[longingfor2005]

I heard the idea of a hologram from someone and i just wannted to say that i heard something along those lines too, but that is just the tip of the iceberg of the rumor i heard. The fact that GL is shooting aditional scenes with NP is negligable to a bunch of new vader scenes he wants to shoot . I heard Gl wants to add at least 20 new minutes of scenes with Vader and his internal struggle and that the NP hologram is one of the things that helps to start the chain reaction ytorwards Vader turning against the emperor to save his son. I heard thatt he reason he plans to do this is because after the PT people know anakin a bit better and because of that he feels the need to fleash out vaders presence a bit more

I just want to repeat that his is a rumor, on the same note however so was the NP additional scenes until about a few weeks ago. I have not heard about David Prowse signing up t