Vergere

[Jedi_Zachaa]

<span style='color:cc00ff'>Let me start by saying there WILL be Traitor spoilers... and probably lots of them!

Now that that's out of the way... I now see that Vergere is (and has been) a very important character, and we are only beginning to realize this. *I've got a couple of questions/topics to discuss.

1. How do you pronounce her name? *I say "vir-gear" *I'm interested to know how other people say it.

2. I should probably re-read Traitor, but I would like to hit on the main points of her philosophy and how it will change the Jedi. *I think her main thing is that the Force is not either good or bad, but it's how individual people use it that makes it so. *However I did not understand the whole "Jacen is dead" thing, nor did I quite understand "everything I tell you is a lie" to Jacen and "everything I tell you is the truth" to Nom Anor.

3. What motive does she have to go against the Vong? *It was extremely unclear to me throughout the whole thing which side she was on, and even if she was on a side other than her own. *I'm still sort of unclear, since at the end of Traitor both Jacen and she claimed their own side separate from either the New Republic and the Vong. *How does this work again?

4. How did she know Anakin!? *Where/when did she come in? *How does she know so much? *How much does she know? *Does this mean the Vong were in the SW Galaxy even as early as the end of the New Republic?

Well I guess that's enough for now. *I think Vergere is becoming one of the more interesting non-canon characters in the EU and she could do with a little more attention. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[</span>

[Luvinna.]

1. In the New Essential Guide to Characters, it has the pronunciation as "ver-jar" (with a long A).

2 & 3. I have no idea. I should probably reread Traitor, myself. I've been confused about her character since I first read Hero's Trial.

4. Read the book Rogue Planet. It's a prequel bridge novel by Greg Bear (I think).

[Flight]

She's not a simple character with simple answers...

[Strke Brelk]

I want to know why everyone assumes half the stuffy Vergere tells Jacen is true? She flat out SAYS she's lying. It's like the EU trilogy where Luke travels all over the GFFA following the Fallanassi (sp?) before the ending reveals that it's all crap. Any (real) philosophy on the nature of the force has to be left up to GL. I thought Traitor was one of the best NJO books, heck, one of the best sw books. But I think Vergere's whole aim there was just to teach Jacen that fighting or sitting on the sidelines wringing your hands aren't the only options. I don't think Vergere really believes there's no dark side. And I think she's been fighting for the Republic the whole time, in her own way. It'll be interesting to see how DW starts to flesh this out.

[Jedi_Zachaa]

I disagree. I think she believes what she's talking about. It makes sense to me, and I accept it until Lucas says it's wrong.

I was thinking about that whole lying thing... the difference between what she said to Jacen and Nom Anor. I think I have it figured out. She said to Jacen, "Everything I say is a lie", but didn't mean it straight out like that. Take for example the shadowmoth story. Ok, so maybe she didn't REALLY do that to a shadowmoth. So the fact that she acted like she did was a lie. BUT the underlying idea of it, was actually the TRUTH. She knew Jacen would figure that out. On the other hand, she said to Nom Anor "Everything I tell you is the truth," and it was the exact truth... but the underlying things of what she was doing was BETRAYING him! It's opposite, sort of... twisted!

[jedibarrister]

She was a Jedi that came into contact with the Vong just before Rogue Planet. Anakin was already a padawan by then and I'm sure quite the talk of the temple.

I don't get her either. Why wouldn't she do what she could, teach what she knew, to help the rebels push out the Vong?

And here's a question: why didn't Jacen kill the world brain?

[Jedi_Zachaa]

So she WAS a Jedi? More questions: is she from the SW galaxy or the Vong galaxy? How did she get caught up in the Vong? How did she survive the Jedi Purge? *sigh* I guess I'll have to read Rogue Planet.

I think the Jacen question belongs in the Traitor thread, but Vergere convinced him not to kill the world brain because he would be betraying a friend. And in the end, you can see that there was a great advantage. Well, we have yet to discover exactly how the brain's behavior will affect the Vong, but it seems a good idea now.

[jedibarrister]

Killing the World Brain would've begun the end of the Vong entirely. She convinced him not to kill the brain on the worldship. She didn't know his plans on Yuzhan'tar and assumed he'd kill it.

On Zonoma Sekot, Vergere and another Jedi disappeared (i think). Ani (13) and Obi went to investigate and found out the Vergere had voluntarily left w/ the Vong b/c she found them interesting or something. It was an interesting book b/c Ani kills for the first time and we get an indication of just how force-strong he really is.

[jade51999]

Yup.. all the back history you need on Veregre is in RP its pretty good and out in PB now i htink style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Flight]

<<On Zonoma Sekot, Vergere and another Jedi disappeared (i think).>>

What makes you think there was another Jedi with Vergere? *There's been no mention of that.



<<Ani (13) and Obi went to investigate and found out the Vergere had voluntarily left w/ the Vong b/c she found them interesting or something.>>

That's part of it - she wanted to learn more about these Far Outsiders. *It also appears that Vergere gave herself up as a sacrifice, in exchange for the survival of Zonoma Sekot.

[jedibarrister]

I DID say "I Think".

[Jedi_Zachaa]

<span style='color:cc00ff'>Aha! Interesting... well I will definitely have to check that out. I looked for RP at the library and they SAID they had it and they SAID it was availible, but I didn't end up finding it style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

Oh, well.</span>

[Flight]

<<I DID say "I Think".>>


Noted. ;)

[James T. Skywalker]

I want to know why everyone assumes half the stuffy Vergere tells Jacen is true? She flat out SAYS she's lying.

Because when she says she is lying, what she really means is that the truth is not hers to tell. She can only impart that which she knows about what she is telling him; he must find the "truth from the lies" for himself.

~JTS

[Rogue_0009]

<font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=black)'>actually I thought the whole "Everything I tell you is a lie" thing is because the truth becomes a lie if you try to define it with mere words</font>