A Hero's Death...

[RollaFett]

Harrison Ford has been quoted on numerous occassions of how he was trying to convince GL to kill Han Solo in ROTJ. I've heard different reasons for his motivations on this, but the one reason that makes the most sense to me is that it would've added a more human element to the story. That makes a lot of sense when you consider the number of deaths throughout the saga to date. Let's face it, the basic plot device is good vs. evil, there are constant battles throughout the movies and less and less in the number of tragic deaths that you would expect to see in war of such magnitude, especially in the OT.

Let's take a look at the movies one by one...

ANH- Nameless Rebel soldiers picked off aboard the Tantive IV and a brutal murder of one of the officers commited by Vader. Shortly after a slew of Jawas are found murdered, then Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru's deaths are revealed. All of this establishes that the Empire is indeed evil and nothing stands in thier way. Later, we are stunned by Obi Wan's death, then witness most of the Rebel assault fleet destroyed, which included characters who we knew by name, before Luke destroys the DS. End result- Lots of death and destruction that should occur during a war. Characters that we knew at times throughout the film are now gone. Uncle Owen, Aunt Beru, Biggs, Porkins, Obi Wan Kenobi, plus the entire planet of Alderran. The death toll is staggering.

ESB- The darkest chapter to date does not have much in the way of death and destruction actually. Several Rebels die during the Battle of Hoth, but past that there's not much else. And nobody we really knew.

ROTJ- Countless minions of Jabba the Hutt perish, including the big slug himself. Boba Fett dies. (Discussing whether or not he's dead is not the point of this thread, BTW) No one involved with the rescue is even injured. Luke does get shot, but the wound is on his robotic hand. Later, Yoda dies, but it's not a death that is tragic in any way. During the final battle, stromtroopers are wiped out, but I don't recall seeing a sigle Rebel soldier being killed, and a grand total of one Ewok dies. In the space battle, Rebels are killed, but we don't know these people.

End result of the OT, all of our heroes survive with nary a scratch on them. Hell, even Yoda and Obi Wan live on in spirit. Sure, it helps with the happy ending aspect, but Ford was right in the fact that it takes away from the human element. In a war, people die. Not just bad people. Having Han Solo die would've added so much more to the story, IMO.

As far as the PT goes, well not too bad so far...

TPM- Not too many deaths overall, but Qui Gon Jinn's fit in well.

AOTC- Shmi Skywalker's death was tragic and well done. Countless Jedi getting killed would've been better if we knew who some of them were, but that's not a big deal because EP3 will most likely handle that.

Like I said earlier, it's the OT, and ROTJ in particular, that really needed more tragedy, IMO. Anyone esle have any thoughts on this? Or am I making absolutely no sense whatsoever? :whatsthat:

[Darth Whaler]

I'm glad Han didn't die in ROTJ. I understand your point but I wouldn't say that I feel the same. I liked the movies the way they were in terms of death toll. Episode III may be more to your liking in terms of tragedy.

PS I think Chewie was shot too in ROTJ during Han's rescue on Tatooine.

[JediBendu]

Chewie shot?! *Was that in the novelisation?

As a kid, I would have freaked completely had Han died in ROJ. *So much so that I probably would have stopped after 1 screening, and not the dozen or so that I did go to. *Han, or even another character - Lando, Ackbar - would have brought the whole flick down and ruined the redemption angle GL was pushing at the end.
Hypothetically speaking, if ep3 is called Revenge of the Sith, it would definitely require the death of a main character at the hands of the Sith, Mace obviously [but if a star destroyer lands on Padme's head I'll be happy], to mirror with Return of the Jedi, where the Sith Master bites it at the hands of the Jedi. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Rinc]

In one of the earlier drafts for ROTJ Lando and the MF were not going to get out of the DS alive thats why we had all that "i got a feeling like i'm not going to see her again." That would've been tragic but of course there has to be a completely happy ending.

[JediBendu]

I remember that - looks like someone probably lied about his little manouvre at the Battle of Tenav.

[RollaFett]

Having the MF and Lando not making it out of the DS would've been fine with me as well.

Rinc- That would've been tragic but of course there has to be a completely happy ending.

That's exactly what bothers me the most, the fact that there had to be a 'completely happy ending'. When you boil it all down, we're talking about a war here, and like I've said before, people die in a war. You can still have a happy ending with heroes not surviving. It happens all the time.

[Darth Whaler]

Help me out...Chewie WAS shot wasn't he? Han asks "are you hit?" That's why I always thought he wasn't standing during most of this scene. He's down on the skiff and can't do much. I could have sworn he was but I could be wrong. I'd like to know if I'm mistaken so I don't continue to make similar errant posts. So someone please let me know!

[Darth Darthy]

Chewie was either shot or hit by shrapnel from one of the explosions that rock the skiff.

[Justin]

We're talking about saturday-matinee adventure movies here. Realism in the form of the heroes losing is not a part of that genre.

If you want to see the good guys die, watch a war movie. Star Wars is about adventure, and in this kind of adventure movie, the heroes win.

I'm sure there will be plenty of heroes dying in Episode III to satisfy your bloodlust.

[Mann]

I agree with Justin, the end of a saga should be fun and exciting. Not any real good guys should die. Besides Empire Strikes back ends with Han being frozen. that's enough for me.

[Obi-Stu]

There have been some good points made here so far. I don't think it makes make difference whether Han died or not.

I must admit that I think it's great the way the whole Han/Leia
romance comes togther " It's not like that, he's my brother."

Another thought would be how would Han have died? During the battle? But then who would have destroyed the bunker & the shield generator?
???

[Jedi Master Shaft]

I guess he would have died in a kind of sacrifice, letting himself be captured by the stormtroopers to be taken in the bunker and then throwing a big bomb, killing himself, the imperials officers and destroying the bunker and the shield generator.

But Jedi is very good. It doesn't need Han or Lando dying.


style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tie.gif

[Luvinna.]

I just want to point out that you missed one MAJOR event in ANH. *Alderaan. *"It was as if millions of voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced." *That's enough death and destruction to last the whole series for me. * :tears:

[Saranac]

I can see why GL didn't kill off Han Solo.

He played to much of an important part to be killed; its almost to say, against his character. Han Solo always had dangerous getaways and adventures it doesn't fit in right.

Justin your right, there will be plenty of important deaths in Episode III.

[RollaFett]

Luvinna Posted on Aug. 12 2002 - 17:22
I just want to point out that you missed one MAJOR event in ANH. Alderaan

Uhmmm... actually, I didn't miss it...

GollaFett quote:
[/QUOTE]Characters that we knew at times throughout the film are now gone. Uncle Owen, Aunt Beru, Biggs, Porkins, Obi Wan Kenobi, plus the entire planet of Alderran. The death toll is staggering.

Like I previously stated, ROTJ was the one film that bothered me in this respect, and even though I used Han Solo as my main example of someone who could've died, it didn't have to be him. In my last post, I mentioned that if Lando hadn't made it out of the DS2, that would've been fine as well.

Justin Posted on Aug. 11 2002 - 22:15
We're talking about saturday-matinee adventure movies here. Realism in the form of the heroes losing is not a part of that genre.

If you want to see the good guys die, watch a war movie. Star Wars is about adventure, and in this kind of adventure movie, the heroes win.

I'm sure there will be plenty of heroes dying in Episode III to satisfy your bloodlust. [QUOTE]

Can't say I agree with you Justin.
First off, I do agree that we are talking about Saturday morning adventure movies, so answer this...what was ANH? A Saturday morning adventure movie, right? Well, as I have already stated, there is more than enough death and destruction in that movie to make it seem as if a war is taking place, so should it be no longer considered a Saturday morning adventure movie? Of course not, it's fine as it is.
You also say that in adventure movies, good guys win. Well, there is a difference between having some characters die during a battle and having the good guys win the battle, don't you think?
Also, I don't have a 'bloodlust' for heroes dying. I simply feel it appropriate throughout the course of a war.

[Tovor]

Justin,
If you want to see the good guys die, watch a war movie. Star Wars is about adventure, and in this kind of adventure movie, the heroes win.

I would agree if you said SW shouldn't be like Full Metal Jacket or Saving Private Ryan, but SW to me is a space/fantasy/war saga, while still tame enough for younger viewers. *The entire Star Wars series could have been like the old (middle 80's I think) cartoon G.I.Joe, an afternoon show which always had the forces of G.I. Joe at war with the evil forces of COBRA. *

Nobody ever died despite major battles occurring in each and every episode. *Foot soldiers were always captured without getting shot, pilots always jumped out of flaming fighter jets with parachutes, sailors always leaped into the water and swam away from sinking ships, and men always ran from jeeps and tanks before the vehicles were blown apart by missles. *Nobody EVER got killed. *

Can anyone imagine if Star Wars had been like that? *It would have been pretty funny if you think about it. *All the people of Alderaan would have jumped off the planet with parachutes right before the Death Star blew it up and nobody else would ever get shot, just surrender. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleeping.gif

Golla:
Also, I don't have a 'bloodlust' for heroes dying. I simply feel it appropriate throughout the course of a war.

I agree. *War is war. *Even in a fantasy like LOTR or SW there is no victory without struggle and no dramatic gain without tragic loss.

[Justin]

Just because a movie has a war in it doesn't make it a war movie. Movies like "The Longest Day," "Gettysburg," and "Saving Private Ryan" are war movies. It's a different genre.

[Tovor]

I don't know. Ever since I was a kid I always thought it was a saga about war in space. The title "Star Wars" kinda gave me that misconception. Heh heh. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Justin]

Yeah, but it doesn't fall into the same genre as a "war movie." George Lucas said Star Wars is an adventure movie made primarily for older kids.

[RollaFett]

That's true, but then why have the massive death toll in ANH, then move away from that later? In the early years, GL recognized his story contained a war and death needed to be present, but in the final climatic battle, there is a lack of it. Plain and simple. I'll admit that you do see rebels dying in their fighters and a couple of rebel frigates are destroyed, but we never become attatched to those who perished as we did in ANH.

[Mann]

Well if star wars is a war movie because there is a space war, then lets say that Indiana Jones is a war movie because he fights the Nazi's who are a whole army themsleves. Star Wars is a Sci-fi/adventure series that focuses on the life of Anakin Skywalker, who is the only true hero to die at the end of the film and his death would have been eclipsed by Han's death. we only need one hero to die.

[Kit]

Good point above, Mann.

But to put it as George Lucas would: there is an entire war going on, but the story concentrates on the story of Luke, Leia, Han, Vader and how he becomes good again-- it is these characters and some other 'co-starring' characters (excepting Vader) that don't die. *Granted many Rebels die there isn't the time or money to actuall put in other battles the Rebelion was going through against the Empire.

What I'm saying here is that I'm sure many, many people died, but it'd just take away from the story to include a shot of every single Rebel dying.

Afterall, I think if more of the starring characters were to die, fans over the world would just say that he/she is still alive, just wounded, and off somewhere in space. *It's like Boba Fett. *Personally, I just face it, the guy is dead, but many other people say he's still alive.

[RollaFett]

Kit Posted on Aug. 18 2002 - 15:22
What I'm saying here is that I'm sure many, many people died, but it'd just take away from the story to include a shot of every single Rebel dying

Uhmm, that is going a tad overboard. All I mean is that it would've been more realistic to have at least one more significant hero die. It would have given a little more meaning to what they were fighting for. Do you understand?

Afterall, I think if more of the starring characters were to die, fans over the world would just say that he/she is still alive, just wounded, and off somewhere in space. It's like Boba Fett. Personally, I just face it, the guy is dead, but many other people say he's still alive.

Well, I'm a Boba Fett fan and I pretty much think he is dead. That said, to avoid any confusion, make the death final. Don't leave it to question.

[Kit]

Well, I will admit I did get a bit "babbley" and went overboard. *And I do get what you are saying and defending. *Yes, I do like realistic movies where things aren't always picture-perfect. *I like the series "Quantum Leap" all because of the final episode, which is nice, but not picture-perfect. *However, to turn the tables around, did you get what I said about it was the characters that the story surounded that didn't die? *I'm certain that if you looked through all the annals of World War II you could find five friends who were together and, though got wounded, didn't die.

I'm just supporting my oppinion the the movies are fine (needed no major improvement), and very good for a 1970's American Space Fantasy/war movie.

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Rinc@Aug. 11 2002 - 18:04
That would've been tragic but of course there has to be a completely happy ending.
The ending of ROTJ is NOT completely happy. Not by a long shot.

I am a firm believer in the 'Endor Holocaust' theory (a rather convincing extrapolation upon which can be found in the 'Star Wars Technical Commentaries' section at TF.N), which states (paraphrased): The explosive destruction of the Death Star II in low orbit above the 'Sanctary moon' of Endor would have had devastating, long term effects upon the entire biosphere, which would lead to the extinction of most of the native lifeforms, including the heroic Ewoks.

[Kit]

Originally posted by Winston_Sith+Aug. 19 2002 - 00:12--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston_Sith @ Aug. 19 2002 - 00:12)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Rinc@Aug. 11 2002 - 18:04
That would've been tragic but of course there has to be a completely happy ending.
The ending of ROTJ is NOT completely happy. Not by a long shot.

I am a firm believer in the 'Endor Holocaust' theory (a rather convincing extrapolation upon which can be found in the 'Star Wars Technical Commentaries' section at TF.N), which states (paraphrased): The explosive destruction of the Death Star II in low orbit above the 'Sanctary moon' of Endor would have had devastating, long term effects upon the entire biosphere, which would lead to the extinction of most of the native lifeforms, including the heroic Ewoks.[/b][/quote]
Good! :lol: Never liked the ewoks much anyway.

But that does sound like a cool, realistic theory, though.

Anyway, you know what I mean. I didn't mean that everything was ALL good and happy and that an eternal rainbow would shine on Endor. I meant that it was just relatively happy; that the good guys won, and the heros survive.

[JediBendu]

Good! Never liked the ewoks much anyway.

But that does sound like a cool, realistic theory, though.


You obviously suffer from a common infliction - Ewokphobia. I can put you on to a good therapist if you want.

That theory is utter bollux, but that's tfn for you. :duel:

[Kit]

Yes, Doc, I have a problem! *I admit it-- but that's the first step right? *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

I'm not saying it's not a load of rotting, floating style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/censored.gif , I'm just saying that it's kind of cool-- realistic, you know?

And, yes... that is TF.N... * ??? * style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Rinc]

To be honest i don't care about an ewok holocaust. Its not in the film so i don't care and have never even thought about it before. We can analyse ROTJ all we want and believe me i have a lot, but the end is happy. Vader is dead, Anakin came back to the good side. The emperor is dead. The death star is gone as is the superstar destroyer. "An entire legion of the emperor's best men" has been wiped out. None of the goodies are dead. Luke and Leia are reunited as brother and sister. Leia and Han look to have a lovely romantic future together and so on. It is a happy ending, you just have to look at the last shot of them all standing together with smiles on their faces to see that.

I would've made it sadder as there should be some martyrs but thats the way the cinema works.

[Mann]

o bad we don't see the commanders on the Death Star despeartly trying to do something to fight back at the oncoming rebels. I remember in the novel, the commander tries to destroy Endor, but the ship blows up before it can do anything.

[JediBendu]

Yes, Doc, I have a problem! I admit it-- but that's the first step right?

LOL Kit!

I would've made it sadder as there should be some martyrs but thats the way the cinema works.

true - that's why ep3 is going to be pretty gut wrenching. If it's going to mirror the OT it has to end with more than just the Jedi dying - I'm still thinking Padme (after a star destroyer lands on her head) but it could also be Obi-Wan.

what?!?! :crazy:

I remember reading years ago about the speculation that Obi was a clone ie OB1 as a designation. It would explain a lot considering Obi doesn't recognise the droids, doesn't know about Leia, and Vader's apparent surprise at seeing him again.
Maybe Obi fights Anakin, thinks he's killed him and leaves. Vader comes back and fights Obi, thinks he's killed him and leaves. Meanwhile, Yoda grabs some cell samples and off to Kamino he goes. Gives him the name of Ben, some loose memories of what's happened then off he goes to Dagobah.

Just a thought anyway... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[maddog62]

I was thinking about this senerio at work today and I think it would be cool. I don't realy know who will kill Mace but what if some how he were to be wounded so bad that he were to go blind in the middle of his final duel. His servival instinks and use of the Force would just kick in and he would fight off several enemies at the same time and almost servive untill (UNKOWN) would finish him off. It would kind of ad a twist to the OT when Luke is fighting the Training droid with the blast shield down on the helmet. It would also potray how a great jedi like MW totally trusts the force rather then his own sences. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif :scratchchin: :scratchchin: :scratchchin: :yoda:

[JediBendu]

mmm, an epiphany you have had

that would be way cool *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

although he may stumble around blindly, killing Jedi and messing up the paintings :p

[Angel Starmaster]

Just to touch on what was said earlier (and lord knows I may have missed someone making this point in my skimming over the thread)

In my personal opinion Han Solo's death in RotJ would have made things a little too tragic. Have in mind that a major heroic character did indeed die. Anakin Skywalker died. We were shown Luke's mourning him. It was not a completely happy ending. Luke had set out to return his Father to the Light, but in doing so Anakin had lost is life. A truely happy ending would have had Vader killing Palpy and then juanting back to Endor with Luke to cavort with the Ewoks.

THAT would have been a too happy ending.

Now if you want war depicted in the war movie way, I highly recommend the EU novels, particularly the New Jedi Order series, beginning with Vector Prime. I won't throw out any spoilers here, but I will say that Main characters die. The ones we've come to love. Vector Prime alone has an absolutely heart wrenching demise for a character that .... well when I read it, I almost wept, and I don't weep easily.

[maddog62]

The PT is a tradgety.

[Luvinna.]

I remember reading years ago about the speculation that Obi was a clone

JediBendu - do you read the EU novels? *Because I read in an interview with Timothy Zahn that his character Joruus C'baoth was originally supposed to be a clone of Obi-Wan. *Lucasfilm wouldn't go for that, so he had to changed it.

[MastaKilla]

I am happy that they didnt kill Han or Chewie because there were some of my favorite characters and plus the could of been able to have Jacen and Jania Solo if Han would of died style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[RollaFett]

Angel Starmaster Posted on Aug. 20 2002 - 04:00
In my personal opinion Han Solo's death in RotJ would have made things a little too tragic. Have in mind that a major heroic character did indeed die. Anakin Skywalker died.

Solo dying would've been tragic, for sure, but that is my point. I also do not agree with Anakin serving as the heroic death. Why? Well, because he was no hero. In the eyes of some, he may be considered redeemed because he saved Luke and killed the Emperor, but that act cannot atone for so many more sins, IMO. But that's another subject entirely.

[Mann]

Anakin's destiny was made when he chose the dark side. His true destiny was to bring balance to the force, which was to kill the Emperor. How he did this was the will of the force. It was his choice to turn yes, but in doing so he was able to decieve Palpatine and destroy him saving the galaxy and destroying the Dark Side. If we look at the PT, he is the hero, he saved Naboo, and he helped save Padme, and he saved his son at the end. Anakin is the hero, who fell from grace and came back because of his son.

[Angel Starmaster]

I agree with Mann.
Anakin was a hero. Yes, he "fell from grace" as Mann so eloquently put it, and redeemed himself. He was mourned by his son as a hero. He was given a Jedi funeral pyre. So there is your Hero's death.
In the EU, Anakin even came back and begged Leia for forgiveness.
My point- Anakin died a hero.

[Mann]

exactly angel Star Master.

Anakin died ahero, it was vader who died a villian.

[Rinc]

Originally posted by maddog62@Aug. 20 2002 - 04:30
I was thinking about this senerio at work today and I think it would be cool. I don't realy know who will kill Mace but what if some how he were to be wounded so bad that he were to go blind in the middle of his final duel. His servival instinks and use of the Force would just kick in and he would fight off several enemies at the same time and almost servive untill (UNKOWN) would finish him off. It would kind of ad a twist to the OT when Luke is fighting the Training droid with the blast shield down on the helmet. It would also potray how a great jedi like MW totally trusts the force rather then his own sences.
That would be a brilliant scene. A tragic blind Mace (wait a minute, isn't that a sing. Three blind mace, three blind mace, see how they run...) fighting and killing a load of droids and then being killed himself.

I don't think Anakin is a tragic death, not in a way that could be compared to Han or Lando dying. Anakin was a baddie so its kind of expected he'd die even if you take into account him turning back. Lando and Han were a bit dodgy but they were heroes and to see them die would've been unexpected and tragic.

Episode 3 will be tragic because Mace and the rest of the jedi will die, Padme possibly (hopefully) and the empire will be born. Can't wait for it.

[Angel Starmaster]

Okay, but that's the point of what Mann and I were trying to say.

Anakin was not a Baddie. He was a hero.

Vader was a Baddie. An ANTAGONIST.

Now, (and try to follow me on this one) When Vader gave Palpy the big toss, he CEASED to be Vader. The Big Darthy was dead. He became Anakin once more, to do ONE FINAL GOOD DEED.

Thus He died a HERO. He died as Anakin not Darth Vader.

This is why OB1 told Luke in ANH that Vader had betrayed and killed Anakin. Because Vader and Anakin were two different people in the same twisted body. OB1 knew this. Few people realize it though.

Sorry, I hope I haven't come across as condecending. But I feel rather strongly about it.

And besides. Han dies, EVERYBODY would have mourned him and we would felt like, "Well, why the hell did we bother to watch them go through all that trouble to rescue Han?"
And Lando? Han would mourned his ship. Everyone else would have offered up a quiet toast and then he'd have been forgotten in celebration.

[RollaFett]

Well, if you insist on seeing Anakin/Vader as a hero, then fine, there is a hero's death for you. As for me, I've never looked at it that way, so I can't accept it now. Anakin/Vader was no hero. And this is my thread, so what I say goes, so THERE! And nobody else is allowed to play in my sandbox, either!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Angel Starmaster]

Sorry GollaFett, I meant no offence.

But yes, I just watched RotJ last night once again with some friends, and I thought about it from your perspective as you've presented it.

I still come to the same conclusion, though. In my eyes, Anakin was a hero.

And besides. I don't wanna play in your sandbox anyway 'cuz it's prolly got Sarrlacc's in it! So there! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Angel Starmaster@Aug. 20 2002 - 04:00
A truely happy ending would have had Vader killing Palpy and then juanting back to Endor with Luke to cavort with the Ewoks.

THAT would have been a too happy ending.
True. But if he did survive he'd have to face the war crimes tribunals.

[JediBendu]

good point
Why is Obi and Yoda actually happy to see Anakin in the afterlife?
Why are they even letting him stand anywhere near them - he's responsible for slaughtering the Jedi.
Oh sure Palpy was controlling him through the dark side, but I'm sure he can't claim insanity :crazy:

[Angel Starmaster]

Oh, that's easy. It's the whole prodigal son story. He saved the republic! Why wouldn'tthey let him stand near them? Besides, what's he gonna do? Unkill them? :angel:

[RollaFett]

Saved the republic?! Excuse me, but how exactly did he do that?

Oh, and no offense taken earlier.

[RollaFett]

Angel Starmaster Posted on Aug. 22 2002 - 15:28
And besides. I don't wanna play in your sandbox anyway 'cuz it's prolly got Sarrlacc's in it! So there!

You're right about that Sarlacc, that's how I try to get rid of those who don't share my point of view! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[maddog62]

Look up at my blind mace post.

[RollaFett]

I have actually seen that post. I don't doubt that there will be some tragic, heroic deaths in EP3, my main point with this thread is how there were not enough of those in the OT, and mostly ROTJ.

[Angel Starmaster]

Jeez, GollaFett why are you such a head...hunt...er?....Oh....Uh. Nevermind. :skull:

Y'know I just saw AotC again the other night and it was actually a little easier for me to enjoy than last time.
Plus that little blood-bath at the end really mixed it up for the hack-N-slasher in me. KILL KILL KILL...
...Oh, heh,...uh...I'm okay. Really. :angel:

[Darth Vegas]

The effect of a war movie is not the same in Star Wars, sinse we never actually saw the people of Alderaan dying. * :eek: *??? *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/satisfied.gif

Bad guys dying does not count.

I personnely would like them to add a shot of the Death Star's blast as it's hitting people, but it won't happen.

Han dying would have sucked, we had to have a happy ending.

Besides that we had Yoda's death in ROTJ, that was a very important and tragic death, especially its effect on Luke afterwards, when he feels like he has really lost something, that he "...can't go on alone". And how can you froget Vader's tragic death, very emotional, he gave himself for all, that was yet another.

There were more hero's deaths on screen in ROTJ than any of the other films in the OT.

[RollaFett]

Agent Bond- Your point about Alderaan is not bad, but I felt those deaths more than the Rebel frigates being destroyed in ROTJ. You could see the anguish on Leia's face.
That said, I don't disagree with your idea of seeing the blast actually hit the planet's surface. Hmmm...does that make us 'bloodthirsty'? That accusation was thrown my way when i first started this thread.

Han dying would have sucked, we had to have a happy ending
I've covered this already, but will do so again. Han, or any other hero's death would not neccasarily have negated a happy ending. Think back to ANH, before we knew there would be sequels to it. Obi-Wan dies, yet the heroes win and everyone is happy in the end, thus a happy ending. It is possible.

I don't agree with your thoughts on Yoda, either. His death was not tragic, he was what, 900 years old?! It was time for him to die. Now, I do agree that it was important in the fact that Luke doesn't feel ready. But tragic? No.
As far as Vader goes, well, I've already covered this ground as well. IMO, Vader was no hero. Thus, no heroic death.

Starmaster Posted on Aug. 26 2002 - 04:07
Jeez, GollaFett why are you such a head...hunt...er?....Oh....Uh. Nevermind.

Glad you figured it out. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif