Traitor

[JonBob]

I've been out of town for a week, so I just got the chance to read the more lengthy transcript from Traitor *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif I am more excited about this book than I have been for any in a while because I am one of those rare few, the fans of Jacen Solo. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif I thought it was great, the style was good, the plot nothing less than tantalizing. If youv'e read it as well, please comment.

[Teek]

Traitor Linkified (http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=034542865X&view=excerpt)

[Whuffa]

Oh yes, the expert was... brilliant! I love the fact that it's written in the present tense and I hope it's not only this chapter. If it isn't this is the first Star Wars book written in the present tense!
I loved the conversations between Jacen and Vergere - the whole "Embrace of pain" thing actually made sense!
And I loved the last sentence where Anor says that if the Empire wasn't defeated the Vong probably would have been beaten!


All in all, veeeeeery good preview and I'm excited about this book now more than ever! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[Shoma Barad]

I liked it... I can't wait for vergere to spill it- that she is/was a Jedi Knight... Bring it on... this book looks like it'll be up there with SbS...

~~Shoma

[James T. Skywalker]

Well, this isn't exactly a new excerpt (TFN spoiled it in April, as I recall, but it wasn't from the RH website; it was scans of pages printed somewhere else), but it is still quite good.

A Del Rey editor who posts over at the Official Site commented that this would be her second favorite of the NJO novels, following Rebel Dream and preceding Rebel Stand. And she should know: she edited the book! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

~JTS

[jade51999]

I heard that its basically the same excerpt just with some added stuff at the beginning..

but the whole "embrace of pain" conversation with the shadowmoth was very very interesting..and very philosophical...

creepy style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif can't wait until the end of the month!


i think its gonna be good..but can you imagine the pain he's in YIKES!!
he also kept saying he was dead...so i wonder what was done to him to cut him off from the force..and make him "dead"


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[beafet]

Hi, all. I am new here, but i post regularly on TF.N, and anyway I just wanted to say that the excerpt made me want to read this book even more than i already did.

[Whuffa]

I think that his near-death state made it easy for Vergere to dampen his presence in the Force.

just a theory of mine. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[Strke Brelk]

Anyone happen to save a copy of this excerpt by any chance? I'm not sure what's going on, but every link I try takes me to the Randomhouse page with no excerpt. Just the copyright notice for the exceprt and the cover art!

[James T. Skywalker]

Here's a link (http://www.angelfire.com/emo/emokid/traitorexcerpt.html) to a page with the full Traitor excerpt from someone who's not just a big Star Wars fan, but is also very "in the know"...

~JTS

[jade51999]

Yea, Del Rey likes to put up excerpts for a short time, and then take them off like a day later..

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[GaViN28x]

Ahhhhhhhh I wish I hadn't read that it was soooo good i want more, I need it now please, ahhhhhhhhh, so ya when does Traitor come out I mean when is it released, I thougth somebody said end of july right.

[jade51999]

July 30 2002

only a week and a day to go..

[GaViN28x]

WOW.... I bought the book today at 5:30 and i just finished reading it at about 11:30 it was sssooooooo good. I can't wait to see what happens and i am sooo glad that jason didn't die. hey i have a question for anyone who read the book, is it jus me or does the cover for Tratior look a lot like Dark Journeys or is it just me. anyway great book.

[RedMirax]

I bought it last night, but was waiting to read it at the beach this weekend... I hope I can get into it. I couldn't get into Dark Journey...

[jade51999]

GAvin..i'm almost..done..i like it so far..but i hope it ends well..style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Whuffa]

Gavin, actually the covers for Dark Journey and Traitor are twin covers, since Jacen and Jaina are twins! It's kinda cool once you look at them together.

[jade51999]

Talk about traitor in the General NJO thread style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

yup the twin covers are cool

[Whuffa]

Sorry! :blush: I'll start posting there when I finish Traitor, I don't want to be spoiled! :angel:

[Chrono]

I just finished reading Traitor and found it to be a great novel. You can read my review here (http://www.JediNet.com/news/Story.asp?s=link&init=active&back=archive&fldr=Books%20and%20Comics&month=August&year=2002&id=17919,20020805,4517). What do you think? Sound off here.

[jade51999]

hello Chrono!

i'm gonna just repost a bit of what I thought from the General NJO thread style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

I thought this book was amazing...
But i can understand why there are some Fans who cannot stand it..b/c it spits in the face of all the GFFA holds dear..

But, like chrono said in his review..that's what the NJO has been about from the start..

change...

~~~~~~~~~
There were many curious things in this novel, one of the ones that a lot have called this book good Sci-Fi and not a good Star Wars book is b/c it focus' on one person rather than 4 plot lines and 20 or thirty charachters...

but it was intriguing in many ways --making it one of the most phenominal books i've ever read..

Star By Star was great b/c of emotion, and hurt, and death...

This was good b/c of the amount of mind power and intellectualism you had to use to get through it...it made reading challenging...style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

A few ideas that i've been tossing around my head (and Nerfer/JamesTSkywalker made some very good points)

Veregres big revelation--The Force, Light vs. Dark etc.

"If the Force is life, how can there be life without the force"

I liked the connection with Jacen and his aptituted with animals,

I also thought the sections on Fanaticism was very very interesting..

Gannar's death was upsetting, but on that i can accept-his charachter has been an evolving figure and i saw this as a fitting end...

I guess one of my favorites is the theread of indecision..how JAcen could no longer bumble back and forth and had to decide RIGHT THEN...


i'm in the middle of rereading it a second time..so i'll put my thoughts in both places then..

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All in all phenominal!

[Kit Fisto]

Yo yo. I'm new to the NJO, but a vetern of the SW Expanded Universe. I read every Bantam booked, but stopped reading when Del Rey took over the franchise because the concept of a huge story arch displeased me as did the selection of extragalatic force-resistant invaders as the plot for such a large project.

To me it has always been the developing characters, and not the specific plots that have drawn me to the Star Wars EU Universe. The character development has always been fascinating and better than that contained in the any of the movies. Because characters were my focus, book such as Truce at Bakura or any other stand-alone always dissapointed me a bit. I still enjoyed them, but the best SW literature, to me, were the nine X-Wing Novels, and the books by Timothy Zahn. Vision of the Future was the culmination of so much character development that was dying to be told, and even made use of the lack of character development in books between Zahn's trilogy and duology.

When, after VotF, Del-Rey announced it's huge alien invasion idea, I just groaned. Then when the death of Chewbacca was announced, I groaned again. New threat, and a main character dies to show just how big that threat is. Sooooooooo typical.

Well, it took three years and Aaron Allston to get me back into the SW liteature fold, and all I can say is thank goodness I'm back.

I picked up Vector Prime Mid-July, and have now read all the way through to Traitor. I still have problems with the concept behind this whole thing, but I must admit it's being handled marvelously with more focus on character than the old Bantam books other than Zahn's, Stackpole's, and Allston's.

There are low points, there are repetitive points, and there are very good highlights. I thought the first three books were wonderful, then I thought it lagged a bit from Hero's Trial to Rebirth. These books were good, and had good stuff in them but the 'Vong take another planet' thing was getting old. Star By Star was brilliant, if tragic. Dark Journey would have been my favorite up to that point if it had only had a longer concludsion. the characters were the best yet in that book, but after careful brilliant set up, it just snapped closed in two pages. Sad. Allston's were a treat on all fronts (Nyax was a bit ridiculous though... but fun).

And then came Traitor... and this book puts the exclaimation point on my experience so far. When I read the short cast list I nearly cried for joy. And I loved every (well almost) minute of it. Some of the action stuff was drawn out a bit strangly, but the philosopy was right on, and fascinating.

The concept that there is no clearly defined light and dark side, that it's all within individual people, is something that hearken's back to Corran's shades of Gray in "I, Jedi." It seems revolutionary, and it does make a difference, but it doesn't really change anything from the movies. Anakin still turns to the dark side, it's just not some greater power, but the capacity for evil within himself.

Vergere is finally brought into the light, and I can't wait to see what happens when Jacen and her return to the other Jedi. It's hard to say whether these revelations will help unify them or only split them further.

One thing I would have liked clarified, although I know Stover intended for it not to be, would be whether or not it was really Anakin Jacen was talking to. I like to think it was, but it seemed overly mysterious to not just say so. Oh well.

I hope what Jacen did to the world brain comes into play big-time in the future, especially for Ganner's sake.

Also, I hope Jacen doesn't sit back and do nothing still. He has decided he's a teacher not a warrior, and that's perfectly fine, but he still must be able to think and act and decide as Vergere teaches him.

Well, thanks for reading my long boring views on things. (I look forward to hearing all of yours!)

Here's counting down the days till "Destiny's Way!"

[Wedge]

Why could Jaina shoot force lightning at the YV in Star by Star, but Jacen could not?

NJO is a good series, but the constant fact contradictions are very annoying and cheapening the series.

[Mookel1138]

I thought Traitor was a well-written book, but to me, it just didn't have the same feel as the rest of the EU. I liked the focus on Jacen's emotions, but I was confused on several occasions on where Jacen's real allegiances were. On the whole, though, I enjoyed it.

[jade51999]

i get what you are saying..

i think that Jacen was confused himself..
he was on the NR's side, but wasn't sure if ethically he could side with the current Borsk led NR gov't (since at the time he didn't know about Borsk's death etc)

[Jedi D'oh]

Traitor was by the THE best sw book I have ever read. i love the implications of what jacen learned from vergere are going to do to the jedi and galaxy as a whole.

as for the force lightning thing, i stated my theory on the general NJO thread, but will say here too: jaina WANTED to hurt the vong, hence her lightning struck them. considering what we just learned about the"new"force, it not only reacts to surface feelings, but also to deep rooted beliefs. jacen really doesnt want to hurt or kill anyone (his deep inside feelings), so the force lightning strikes the walls burying the vong. since they were still alive while buried, technically he did not kill them they suffocated because they could not escape.

it just a theory, so im interested to hear what you all think about it! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[jade51999]

so essentially you're saying it all goes back to intent which is really what the force has been all along..

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I can see that working out...

[Jedi D'oh]

yes, exactly!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

it just on deeper and deeper levels now, which opens up a further understanding of how complex the force is, making these jedi not as "blind" as the old republic jedi.

:0 ya know, it just occured to me while typing this that the title New Jedi Order has deeper meaning now style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[jedibarrister]

What I want to know is how did Jacen lose the force and why did it take anger/aggression/lightning to give it back?

[Gendi]

Ok, I seem to be the only person that didn't really enjoy this book much. *I didn't care too much for the whole colors thing throughout the book. *I am glad Vergere is on her way back with Jacen, because I think it will be strange for Luke and the others to meet her. Jacen is my least favorite ("good") character of the Star Wars galaxy. To me, he still hasn't grown up. *I love this series but I didn't like this book. * I was glad Ganner died with a purpose but it was like they looked around and said "Ok, which Jedi can we make into an idiot and then kill him off to save Jacen?". *I think I would have enjoyed it more if it had been presented differently, because I think important points were brought up. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Flight]

Originally posted by Gendi@Aug. 22 2002 - 08:33
I was glad Ganner died with a purpose but it was like they looked around and said "Ok, which Jedi can we make into an idiot and then kill him off to save Jacen?".
I think he was already made out to be an idiot. ;)

[jedibarrister]

The Ganner: "None Shall Pass". So Yuzhan'tar is now the gate to Underworld? And Ganner the equivalent of Hades? I thought Vergere's vision to be convenient and hokey.

[jade51999]

jedibarrister..naw i doubt that you were the only one who didn't like the book, so i wouldn't worry about it..style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif As for Ganner..i think it was a fititng death i don't think he died an "idiot" its more of a realization of his potential--which he had been floundering from Luke's teachign to Kyp's to Lukes again..i'd say he found his place in the force, rahter than dying..

I do think though that after this novel Jacen has grown up..so to speak..i'd be surprised if h e stillacts the way he did in VP or even floundering in BP

[Gendi]

I agree with barrister, the vision thing was convenient. I never thought of Ganner as a lesser Jedi before this novel. However, he is portrayed as a Jedi joke or mistake way too much here. I just feel like they used Ganner as an easy target so that Jacen could get into the world brain and escape somewhat easily. Maybe the next novel will clear up some of the things that didn't sit well with me in this one. Like I said I love the series overall, but I still don't like Jacen.

[jedibarrister]

I didn't hate Traitor. It was one of the better ones. I just thought that some of the plot points had no explanation. And I didn't understand the "revelation" that Jacen had. The force is light AND dark. Duh! We didn't know that? It's the darks side OF the force. Darkness is within and not without. You're kidding!? Am I missing something? Did I misunderstand the 'revelation' that Jacen had?

I hated Bakura, Courtship, Crystal, and the Fallanassi nonsense.

[Whisper]

What it's saying is that there IS NO Dark Side, nor is there a Light Side. The Force just IS...it doesn't take any sides. If you use the Force to cause massmurder...it's not a "dark" side of the Force...it's adarkness in YOU. (you being the character of course :-D)

[James T. Skywalker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And I didn't understand the "revelation" that Jacen had. The force is light AND dark.[/b][/quote]

Yeah, but as Whisper said, the revelation was that there are no sides to the Force. It is limitless. The Force is one; the Force is all, and all is the Force. So, it basically went against everything a Jedi ever learned.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>It's the darks side OF the force. Darkness is within and not without. You're kidding!?[/b][/quote]

Right. The only Dark Side to be found is the darkness found in the hearts of the people who use the Force for cruelty and death (as the Dark Jedi and Sith do). The Light Side, as the Jedi knew it, was used for good, but the reason it was not always as powerful as the Dark Side was because of the limitations on the Force that the Jedi imposed. The "Dark Side" was actually the pure use of the Force, but without the control of a Jedi. The Light Side had that control, but it was so controled that it limited a Jedi's power. See?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Am I missing something? Did I misunderstand the 'revelation' that Jacen had?[/b][/quote]

I hope that I had some part in helping to clear up that misunderstanding.

~James T. Skywalker

[Zane Marit]

You must "un"learn what you have learned...

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[jedibarrister]

Well, here's my point. This isn't new to me. I had assumed that from Yoda in ESB, we had all this already. The cave, at least to me, taught Luke that darkness lives inside him; that his fear and agression can lead him to make the same mistakes that Vader did...to become him. The tree, a living yet passive thing, was dark. The force is all nature and nature is beautiful but dangerous and deadly as well. In ROTJ when he was fighting Vader, he was using the force, but he was angry and fearful of losing Leia. He realized that what he was tapping into was the negative and dark feelings within himself. He realized how much like his father he was and how close he came to becoming him entirely.

Based on the novelizations and the movies themselves, I guess I always assumed what Jacen realized. I'm wondering if the earlier authors missed it and just created an issue when one really wasn't there.

[masterknight13]

I read traitor as soon as it came out and it only took me 2 days to do that and i think that it is by far one of the best SW NJO books written. It has so many revelations in it and has such a deep look into the mind of a human that it is scary. Also I love the new twists that he put on the force

"If the Force is life, how can there be life without the force"

That is such a great new twist to the force and how all the Jedi are going to view it. Also I really liked how the beginning and the end of the book were written the same with just a few minor changes, it put such a twist into the book and such a twist onto Jacen. I can't wait to see what Jacen is going to be like in the next book.

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[Flight]

<<Well, here's my point. This isn't new to me.>>

<<I'm wondering if the earlier authors missed it and just created an issue when one really wasn't there.>>


No, it's not an entirely new revelation. Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter mentioned a similar concept, for example, in a short passage. There are other examples, too, where the "one Force" idea isn't so much stated in words as it is expressed and interpretated.

The thing about Traitor, though, is that it was the first novel to put such precedence on Force philosophy and to express its ideas so well and so thoroughly. The Dark Tide duology featured Anakin and Jacen arguing about the nature of the Force, but it was depicted as an argument between siblings, not as some grand, galaxy-sweeping revelation. Traitor is the first to express the "one Force" concept as one of its main themes.

[lostjedi]

Originally posted by Gendi@Aug 21 2002, 07:33 PM
I was glad Ganner died with a purpose but it was like they looked around and said "Ok, which Jedi can we make into an idiot and then kill him off to save Jacen?".
have you ever heard of "setup". it's probably another
action that will be seen by the shamed ones that will make them admire the jedi.

[bluemilk]

wow...the latest NJO novel *lol* It's now May 3, 2006 and I'm just starting it. :blush:

[Soontir Solo]

^its the best of all the NJO novels in my opinion.

[DarthSolo]

It's the best Star Wars novel, iMO.

[bluemilk]

just finished reading it last night at dinner. I enjoyed it. At first, I didn't think I was because of all the banter between Jacen and Vergere that I wasn't sure was going to stop. If it had been the whole book I would've gotten annoyed with it but since Stover evolved a story around it then it worked brilliantly. :thumbs-up: It could've been renamed Star Wars: The Tao Te Ching and the New Jedi Order. hehe.

I also finished Jedi Trial tonight as well and started on both Outbound Flight and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous.

[Dxun Angel]

I loved the book Traitor. I enjoyed being able to see Jacen's transformation. It was incredible.

Dxun Angel

[Queso]

it's actually one of my favorites. Shatterpoint, also by Stover goes into similar quandries, except focused around the role of the Jedi in the Clone Wars.