Jedi Vanishing Act

[Handothrawn]

I've come across two theories on why some Jedi disappear and others don't:


A)

Obi Wan: If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Yoda: Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall, that is the way of things, the way of the Force. Soon will I rest, yes, forever sleep, earned it I have.

Anakin: Nothing can stop that now.
Luke: But I've got to save you.
Anakin: You already have.


All these Jedi have pretty much stated, "its my time and I'm packed and ready to go". :D

So theory A says that these Jedi have accepted their death and give themselves to the Force, and thats why they disappear.



B) All the Jedi that we see disappear eventually have a message from beyond towards some one living, always a stressed out Skywalker.

Qui-Gon, whom according to the novel disappeared on his funeral pyre, screams out "Anakin, No, Anakin!" this was the Tusken Camp scene, and it really freaked out Yoda.

Ben talks during the DS run, after escape from the Wampa, when Yoda won't train Luke, when Luke leaves, after Yoda dies, and Anakin, Yoda, and Ben appear after the Emperor's defeat.

Which do you believe?

[NelsonCoressel]

I think the disappearing act is simply an acquired trait.
Obi-Wan and Yoda were prepared to shuffle off their mortal coil, but Qui-Gon and the Jedi who get knocked-off in AOTC were perhaps not as prepared.

Concerning Anakin/Vader, I've always felt that although he was "saved" before he died, his body still had to be purged so that he could appear as a Force-Spirit.

So I guess I buy into both of your theories... A and B both make sense.

[Vyndim]

I'm going to go with theory A on this one. The theory of accepting your fate seems plausable and looks like it fits in with the story nicely. All three jedi accepted their fate and were ready for death. Perhapes they had such a strong affinity for the Force that they join with it upon death. *shrug*

[DanielSkywalker]

I have really been curious about this whole subject. At first, I thought that the vanishing act was an acquired trait as nelson stated above. Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin vanished upon dying thus the reason why they have the ability to manifest themselves in spirit form. BUT, hearing Qui-Gon's voice in AOTC was most puzzling to me. Qui-Gon didn't vanish when he was struck down. Plus, people keep telling me that Qui-Gon will most possibly appear to Anakin in spirit form during EPIII. Maybe my theory is incorrect. Does anybody know for certain (At least pretty certain) that Qui-Gon will appear in EpIII?

[Justin]

If Qui-Gon appears to anyone in Episode III, it will probably be Yoda. In the novelization of Episode II, Yoda sort of contemplates whether or not there is an afterlife after he hears Qui-Gon calling to Anakin, and George Lucas said a few years ago that Yoda teaches Obi-Wan how to "retain his identity" after he dies.

[max_rebo42]

Originally posted by Justin@May 28 2002 - 22:48
If Qui-Gon appears to anyone in Episode III, it will probably be Yoda. In the novelization of Episode II, Yoda sort of contemplates whether or not there is an afterlife after he hears Qui-Gon calling to Anakin, and George Lucas said a few years ago that Yoda teaches Obi-Wan how to "retain his identity" after he dies.
I really like this response. It explains the scene in ANH when Vader strikes down Obi Wan. Vader probes Obi Wan's robes with his foot. This act leads me to believe that Vader was supprised to see Obi Wan vanish. So, the vanishing trick was learned later on in Episode III, Anakin would not have learned it in his training and would have no knowledge of this. Yet, when he died he gave in to the Force and became one with it. That is how Anakin appeared in the very end.

[RollaFett]

I like that theory as well. Very cool. It's as if Yoda and Obi-Wan figured out that that would be the only way to keep the Jedi alive after the purge.

[DanielSkywalker]

Yeah, that does make sense. I noticed too that Vader seemed surprised when Obi-Wan vanished. But, if Qui-Gon didn't vanish upon dying, how can he retain his identity? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

[Justin]

Wow, someone actually responded to something I posted. That's new.

You guys should check out the Episode II novelization for that part when Yoda hears Qui-Gon.

As far as Qui-Gon not vanishing but still able to keep his identity...Anakin didn't vanish either, but we see him all ghostly at the end of ROTJ. Wierd...

[nunzio]

I've seen George say that Ben spent his years in the desert meditating on how to retain his identity in the Force after death. Presumably, Yoda did the same in the swamp.

By the time Anakin's image shows up, both Ben and Yoda are already part of the Force. They could have combined their powers to let Anakin have a courtesy curtain call for Luke's benefit.

[DanielSkywalker]

I was under the impression that Anakin did vanish after he died, but it just wasn't shown, and, Luke burnt his suit not his body on the funeral pyre. Unfortunately, I don't have any hardcore proof of this. I've just heard it several times from others; maybe it's in the script or the novel or something.

[lmg1352001]

I think the reason why Jinn didn't vanish is because of his studies of the force............He studied the living force instead of the unifying force. *Check this out....Also it says he was cremated. *One thing that is apparent between the living force and the unifying force is:
feel don't think/think don't feel

QuigonJinn/PalPy made it a point to say trust your feelings
Obi made it appoint to say think

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character...jinn/index.html (http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/quigonjinn/index.html)

After the final battle when Darth Vader ceased to exist and anakin the jedi knight returned(sacrificed)....he did vanish but we never saw it....it says that luke built a fire to destoy the empty sith lords armor and to commemorate the Jedi...

But from what I gather the Jedi disappearing 1, 2 tango has to do with you sacrificing yourself.......check this out..

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/st...jc20000131.html (http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20000131.html)

But I also think it has to do with when they are at peace with themselve and the force..When all the Jedi died in AOTHC they were in battle and fighting(not really at peace)
When Q-Jinn is fighting it looks like he was kinda angry.
Yoda seems to have that angry look when he was fighting C Dooku.

Also Vader was so suprised because when he wiped out the Jedi he probably struck them down, no one before sacrificed themselves to him.......whassuuppppppp

So this Is what I think the difference is........

One more thing I belive the use of sabers was not a aspect of the original Jedi Order but became out of necessity to protect and fight....Yoda I believe knew about this aspect of the force
and to beat the dark side, You could become one with the force and later come back to teach or help the good side(luke) in the future.

Yoda was the great manipulator...

But I will meditate on this

[Handothrawn]

Originally posted by Justin@May 30 2002 - 22:05
As far as Qui-Gon not vanishing but still able to keep his identity...Anakin didn't vanish either, but we see him all ghostly at the end of ROTJ. Wierd...
Qui-Gon's body disappeared on his funeral pyre according to the Novel, and so did Anakin accroding to the novel.

One thing I don't get is when Ben dies his robes are still there, when Anakin dies his armor is still there, but Yoda disapears robes and all.

[DanielSkywalker]

Very strange this is. Perhaps those aren't clothes, perhaps they just appear to be robes but are actually just a part of Yoda :tounge:.

...Probably not though.

[Swamprat_Jedi_Knight]

Perhaps Yoda's robes were a permanent part of the pupet and could not be taken off, without damaging Yoda. LOL But in all seriousness, I think these theories are on the right track.

[Darth Threat]

George Lucas stated once that Anakin indeed did vanish. I don`t know about Jinn though. If he vanished why is Yoda surprised to hear him in the force ? As to why people vanish I have a third theory: They vanish when they have fulfilled their destiny - Yoda trains his last student, Obi Wan sets the redemtion of Anakin in march by giving Luke the chance to join the rebels and to escape the Death Star, Luke redeems his father and possibly trains new Jedi (Yoda`s last words: Pass on what you have learnt), and last but not least Anakin brings balance by destroying that which brings imbalance - Sidious. By that theory Jinn can`t have vanished bacause he was destined to train Anakin (that`s what he felt at least). So, did he realy vanish ? Didn`t George say that we will find out about this in epi 3 ?

[dexterlennon]

Originally posted by lmg1352001@June 01 2002 - 11:49
One thing that is apparent between the living force and the unifying force is:
feel don't think/think don't feel

QuigonJinn/PalPy made it a point to say trust your feelings
Obi made it appoint to say think
thank you so much. i've never realized this before. since i found the cinescape message boards in march, i've heard living/unifying all over the place, but never really knew what they were talking about.

thank you! that simple quote makes it nice and clear for me...

[Shoma Barad]

Yeah, ive always thought it has to have something to do with accepting death, and knowing you aren't dying, but returning to the Force.

As for Qui-Gon disappearing, I've never heard anything about his body disappearing on the funeral pyre. Except that he turns to ash (presumably).

~~Shoma

[Darth Strange]

Originally posted by NelsonCoressel@May 25 2002, 08:49 PM
I think the disappearing act is simply an acquired trait.
Obi-Wan and Yoda were prepared to shuffle off their mortal coil, but Qui-Gon and the Jedi who get knocked-off in AOTC were perhaps not as prepared.

Concerning Anakin/Vader, I've always felt that although he was "saved" before he died, his body still had to be purged so that he could appear as a Force-Spirit.

So I guess I buy into both of your theories... A and B both make sense.
Quoted post

Jedi disappear because they become one with the force when obi-one was dueling vader he became one with the force.

[yodalizard8]

Edit: never mind, my i just debukned my own theory.