Hokey Religion and Ancient Weapons

[Kafer]

I'm sure this has been discussed several times in several different threads, but why not discuss it again.

So we've got that great line from Han. So, what are your thoughts?

I was thinking, could of Han just been raised on a planet in the outer rim, or outside the Republic. Where talk of Jedi is just fairy tales? Or does Palp do something to make people everywhere believe as Han does?

We know, based on Mace's testimony in AotC that their Force ability is diminished. So, Now that Palp has his absolute power, does he push the Jedi apart even more? Well, I know he'll end up wiping them out all together, but does he start planting mistrust of the Jedi now. And by now I mean right now as he has absolute power and a clone army to command.

However, wouldn't that approach take years, even decades to truly take effect? Obviously there are people/creatures out there that don't believe it. Jabba is one.

So, I'm leaning toward Han being brought up on the outskirts where Jedi aren't as common. No one in Mos Eisley seemed all that taken aback by a Jedi using his Lightsaber to cut someone's arm off. So, if you couple Han not being raised in the Republic and the fact that Palp/Vader have wiped out the Jedi, it is Han, as an individual who believe it's a Hokey religion.

Further proof is during the Rebel briefing. Everyone says, May the Force be with you.

[JediBendu]

I've always assumed he was brought up on Corellia. *Whether it's considered a core system or not - it's only really mentioned in the EU.

it is Han, as an individual who believe it's a Hokey religion.

I could image that after almost 20 years some of the Jedi's abilities would seem ludicrous to not only a new generation, but for people who remembered them. *They might also be blamed for the Clone War (it was a Jedi who placed the order) so it could be something the Galaxy is wanting to forget.

'Don't try and frighten us with Sorceror's ways Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebel's hidden fortr..' - motti, anh

'The Jedi are extinct. *Their fire has gone out. *You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion' - tarkin, anh

so the Jedi are looked upon at best a quasi-religious group, at worse a group of fortune tellers and wizards. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Target]

I though they mentionned in the Original Trilogy that Han was from Corellia, didn't they? Doesn't matter. As for people not believing in a Jedi's powers, I guess its something people had to see to believe. If I were in Han's place, I think I'd have trouble believing in Jedi too.

[happyjedi]

to take this thread one step further i wanted to finish han`s quote and add in luke`s quote-


han- "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

luke- "you don`t believe in the force do you?"

han- "kid, i`ve traveled all over this galaxy and i`ve seen a lot of strange things but thier is nothing out thier that would make me believe thier is a force that controls everything, it`s just a lot simple tricks and non-sense if you ask me"

also here`s a quote from obi wan-

"For more than a thousand generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. Before the dark times. Before the Empire."

luke- "how did my father die?"

obiwan- "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father."



apparently the ways of the jedi seem to banish from the galaxy after episode 3. *and to escape being destroyed obi-wan and yoda go into hidding.

[Justin]

I think you mean "vanish," not "banish."

[bodhisattva yoda]

han is just a skeptic. that's all. even with the jedi order having existed not all that long ago, and certainly within his lifetime, most people had never seen a jedi, not to mention a jedi in action(they're supposed to be very conservative with their powers, i believe). the empire probably did have some anti-jedi propaganda of some kind, and even in our own galaxy, some people still don't believe the holocaust ever happened.

[JediBendu]

'Jedi under the Bed' :scratchchin:

[happyjedi]

Originally posted by Justin@Aug. 03 2002 - 16:43
I think you mean "vanish," not "banish."
it depends on how it`s used, in this case the jedi were 'banished' from the galaxy. now if they would have disappeared without any reason then i would have said they 'vanished' from the galaxy.

use a dictionary!

http://www.m-w.com/

[Justin]

Ok, but you can't say "they banished from the galaxy." However, you CAN say "they were banished from the galaxy."

Also, the word "banish" means to make someone leave and tell them they can't come back. The Jedi were murdered. They weren't banished.

[Kafer]

So, we're thinking that Han was a lone skeptic? I mean, of course Palp wants to banish or vanish the Jedi from the Galaxy, they're the only ones who could possibly stop him. Hence him killing most of the Jedi. But, if the Jedi were the gardians of peace for 1,000 generations, wouldn't people notice that they were suddenly gone. Wouldn't we notice the UN peacekeepers disappearance? (I know, not the same, but I had to think of something.)

Coupled with the quotes that JediBendu provided, it appears to be more than just Han. However, I believe the Empire troops were and are brainwashed with pro-Empire propaganda. But still, these people had to have a life outside the Empire. I mean, unless they were born Imperial soldiers.

[max]

I guess that you could look at it in two ways.

Perhaps that once the jedi temple and archives, along with the jedi themselves were destroyed during the collapse of the republic there would be nothing left but memories of the once keepers of the peace. there is some time between episodes 3 and 4, long enough for the order to become less known to the newer generations.

What doesnt make much sense though is the fact that in episode 2 we are told that there are thousands of Jedi on missions throughout the Galaxy. It seems almost impossible that the entire religion could be either wiped out or forgotten. You would expect that there would have been a greater resistance put up by the Jedi to continue the Order yet this doesnt seem to have taken place.

[Rinc]

I think it will basically be down to propaganda by Palpatine. People won't like the jedi because Palpatine will probably accuse the jedi of conspiring to take over the galaxy. He could also say they aren't powerful enough to protect the galaxy and have exagerrated their powers hence people not believing in them and doubting them.

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Aug. 02 2002 - 23:32
'Don't try and frighten us with Sorceror's ways Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebel's hidden fortr..' - motti, anh

'The Jedi are extinct. *Their fire has gone out. *You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion' - tarkin, anh

so the Jedi are looked upon at best a quasi-religious group, at worse a group of fortune tellers and wizards. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif
I think the whole "Jedi poodoo!!" line from AotC would indicate that the once venerable status of the Jedi Order was in decline even at that time.

[Kafer]

Interesting Winston. I just took the "Poodoo" line as that poor person had a bad experience with a Jedi.

So, what changed between TPM and AotC to change the perception? The Neimoidians feared the Jedi Ambassadors that arrived on their ship. And now, as you suggest, they have lost their status already. Could it be that it's becoming obvious that the Jedi aren't as effective as Mace eludes to?

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Kafer@Aug. 06 2002 - 20:41
So, what changed between TPM and AotC to change the perception? *The Neimoidians feared the Jedi Ambassadors that arrived on their ship. *And now, as you suggest, they have lost their status already. *Could it be that it's becoming obvious that the Jedi aren't as effective as Mace eludes to?
Or, as Dooku suggests, that the Order is too intertwined with the policies of the Republic and/or the Senate (not to mention the not-so-strong Chancellor) to do any good.

[Tonin]

If you have the time to read the Han Solo Series by A.C. Crispin, you will find out that HAn was raised by a group of mercinaries on Corellia. He was forced to lie and beg and steal for these guys. I got the impression that this was not the life he wanted, which is why he ran away. No Jedi ever came to his rescue and took him away from those guys. Lets say that he did know of the jedi and that they weren't all gone (i was never really able to figure that out). They couldn'tcome and help him out so that could be why he feels that they don't really have powers that are that great. On the other hand if they had already been wiped out then obviously they weren't to great anyways if they could all be disposed of.
Of course for this to matter at all you have to rely on the EU, which I know not everyone is inclined to do. Just my 2cents.

[Tonin]

UGH! I killed it. (I wonder if this is what it is like to be Charlie Brown)

[JediBendu]

EU is bollux.

well, ummm, ok not all - the annotated screenplays have GL saying the Han is an orphan who was adopted by some Wookies on Kashyyk. He hooked up with Chewbacca and headed out into the galaxy.

[Sluggo]

BUMP!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif

[cj790]

I had always assumed that Han was quite typical of the smugglers and spacers who live in the tyranny of the Empire - they have been brought up under an iron hand against which no force can (seemingly) prevail, and are left to watch after themselves, as the organised 'police force' of the universe are the notorious Stromtroopers. They do not face fair judgement under Jedi watchmen. They take the law into their own hands, and do what they can to survive. This reliance on themselves then makes belief in something else, something moral and magical, all the more hard to swallow. They would be very cynical and humoured by the thought of a Jedi watchman.
Coupled with this could be the notion that the Empire unleashed a propoganda assault to make the population believe that Jedi were to blame for the Clone Wars; though this would not be neccesary. I feel that comparisons with the disappointment of samurai in fuedal Japan are justified.
I have also considered Jedi to be akin to the Knights Templar; holy warriors who were ultimately betrayed by their own high priest (or Pope). Look at their reputation in the middle ages, or even today.

[JonanMephi]

It all boils down to "out of sight, out of mind". Nothing more or less. In my opinion.