The Unifying Force [Archive] - The Galactic Senate

Skywalker

07-02-2002, 05:08 PM

I hate being overly critical but I have to question the decision to have Luceno do the last NJO book. While the first two that he wrote for the NJO were not exactly horrible, in my opinion they had a long way to go to be as good as Vector Prime, Dark Tide, Balance Point, the two written by Greg Keyes, Star by Star, or Enemy Lines. I'm willing to give Luceno the benefit of the doubt because there were several goos parts in HT, including his depiction of Han.

My biggest problem with HT was Luceno's insistance on bringing back many characters from two trilogies that were less than spectacular, The Corellian Triology and The Black Fleet Crisis. On the othe hand what he did with those characters was good because it gave them acknowledgement when they would have otherwise received none. But I still have a little hope for Luceno and think there's a decent chance that he might not screw up. what are your people's thoughts?

Doctor Evil

07-02-2002, 10:49 PM

I am wary as well. I was less than impressed with both his NJO books. However, perhaps that is because after Stackpole's books, I was expecting the wrong thing. Stackpole does BIG battles so well and has a "Quick Cut" style of handling multiple plotlines that I have always felt is extremely similar to GL's movies.

The Luceno books seemed to be not as intense to me. Luceno seems to do political intrigue and smaller scale battles well. I felt his books were a bit more introspective, which on it's own is not bad, but I wanted to see more of the non-stop action of VP and DT1 & 2. Luceno just seemed to me to take forever to get to the point sometimes.

Not a horrible choice I guess, but a lot of us had our sights set on Zahn, so he seems like a letdown. I hope he comes through, even if he was not my first choice.

Doc *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

Nathan Butler

07-03-2002, 12:48 AM

I'm inclined to agree, to a point. I've always been a fan of the work Luceno did in conjunction with Daley as "McKinney," but on is own, his stories have been less than spectacular for SW.

But, then again, look at it this way: at least it won't be Alan Dean "Wow, look at all the nifty planet life on Ansion" Foster. We might see more than a semblance of plot in The Unifying Force.

Whuffa

07-03-2002, 07:06 AM

I am very sceptical about this too. IMHO, his books were the worst in the NJO, and I'm afraid he'll ruin the experience for me by writing the final HC. But then again, Cloak of Deception was OK. Perhaps he should stick to political-intrigue novels.

Oh well, we'll just have to wait and see...

JonBob

07-03-2002, 12:45 PM

I agree with Whuffa, this two NJO novels were sub-par, but I read Cloak of Deception recently and really enjoyed it. I think he will do OK for the last Hardcover

Doctor Evil

07-04-2002, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by NathanButlerSWT@July 02 2002 - 23:48
But, then again, look at it this way: *at least it won't be Alan Dean "Wow, look at all the nifty planet life on Ansion" Foster. *We might see more than a semblance of plot in The Unifying Force.
Hehe. I read "A Splinter of the Minds Eye" in middle school, just because it was Star Wars. I hardly understood any of it, but trudged through just to prove how much of a fan I was and because it was the only SW novel outside the movie novels at the time. Then I read it again a few years ago, and you know what? Let's just say it wasn't "My kind of SW book."

"The Aproaching Storm" was okay as an audio book. I'm sure I won't be actually reading it. I did not think it was horrible (again as an audio book) but I think a lot of us expect "Bigger" stories from EU Novels.

Doc *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

Handothrawn

07-07-2002, 08:48 AM

Its not his fault the books weren't that good, the story lines have been pre-planned, so the authoer can only go on what Del-Rey wants and not create his own stroy. So its really not his fault.

Nathan Butler

07-07-2002, 05:04 PM

Actually, if you look at the author interviews, there's only small portions that are pre-planned, and it is less so in the earlier novels. Luceno had plenty of room to make his duology really good . . .

James T. Skywalker

07-07-2002, 05:30 PM

Well, according to one of the Del Rey editors who frequents the Official Site, there are several cool things planned in the novels leading up to TUF. Personally, I do think Luceno did a half-decent job on the Agents of Chaos duology, but I really expect good things from him for the final hardcover.

At least, I hope my expectations are met somewhere. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

~JTS

Whuffa

07-08-2002, 11:29 AM

It's not the storyline that's so bad, it's his writing. He seems to have a compulsion to iclude cameos wherever he can squeeze them in. Now I like cameos, but when it reaches the point where I don't even notice them all, than what's the point? And there's something about his writing style that bugged me, it reminded me a bit of KJA, don't know why...

Handothrawn

10-04-2003, 01:28 PM

Since there is only one book left in the NJO, and its is just barely a month away, I figured its time to start speculating on it.

About the only thing that I think will happen is Kyp dying and Alpha Red being released by Kre'fey against orders. I hope that if Kre'fey does release Alpha Red, then it will be a real tragic ending for someone, I'd like to see the Shamed Ones overthrow the rest of their society, and then be wiped out by Alpha Red after gaining redemption, wouldn't that be cool?

And Luke needs to kill Shimraa, and Jacen should kill Onimi, the real brains behind the Yuuzhan Vong.

And the secret to Zonama Sekot needs to be revealed.

I really don't see what Boba Fett could do this late in the game, but he is on the back cover, so I don't know. And speaking of late-comers, I think Kyle Katarn will be in there, but with a minor role, because we all know James Luceno.

Handothrawn

10-04-2003, 01:46 PM

I also think that if Nom Anor doesn't slink away, he'll be cut into little bits by Mara.
Tahiri will end up being adopted by Han and Leia, or die, either way.

James T. Skywalker

10-04-2003, 03:27 PM

There is alot of your speculation that I just don't agree with, but I'll restrain myself and say that I just don't see alot of that happening.

~JTS

Handothrawn

10-04-2003, 03:34 PM

Yeah, I don't think most of it will happen, but some parts I think will come into play, like Onimi being the puppet master of Shimraa.

DarthSolo

10-04-2003, 03:39 PM

i really have no idea how this thing will end, though i know zonoma sekot will have a big role, and probably Jacen also. Alpha red wont be released. Boba Fett or his new clone boy or son or whatever wont do much, just do something cool in some battle, but who knows. as for the rest, i dont know.

Handothrawn

10-05-2003, 01:22 PM

I think it'll end up that the Vong hate machines because they were once ruled by them.

DarthSolo

10-05-2003, 04:03 PM

could be, could be. that was an interesting thought i hadnt thought of. i liike it

Soontir Solo

10-05-2003, 06:51 PM

First off Mara will die, just wait...................I've been saying it for months and it will happen.

Now im thinking the GFFA will take back Coruscant/Yuuzghan'tar. I think the Imps and/or Chiss will have huge roles in the battles in this book. I think the battle at Mon Calamari will end with the GFFA winning, but Mon Calamari taking heavy damage. Then the GFFA will amass with Imperial/Chiss/Hapan/Zonoma Sekot (some if not all of them) forces and finish out the Vong at Yuuzghan'tar where the fate of the galaxy will be decided. The Vong will be so utterly defeated because the GFFA will use overwhelming forces, with plenty of Jedi, and the Vong will use there entire fleet to try and hold there capital.

Jacen and Zonoma Sekot will have huge parts of course and I think Tahiri will as well. I think Jacen and Tahiri will be working with the Shamed One's and will help them find redemption.

I think Nom Anor will probably finally be killed.

Shimrra is done in as well, that much im sure of. Im thinking Jacen will defeat him in one on one combat, or at least thats what im hoping for. (I really do think it will come true though, and he'll use Vong weapons because he will be helping the Shamed One's so he'll be fighting as one of them almost)

I don't think there is any validity behind that machine idea, sorry Hando.

Handothrawn

10-05-2003, 09:04 PM

Don't sweat it Soontir, but its just a feeling I have, but maybe I've been watching Terminator too much lately. Hey, I could be wrong.

But I defintly have to say that Endor will come up as a battle zone before the book is done, because James Luceno couldn't resist a cameo like that.

I hope Nom Anor lives out the series, and disappears into the galaxy never to be seen again, but still alive and truckin'.

I'd also like to see Jacen take out Shimraa, but it would be cooler if it was a Jacen and Shimraa amphistaff on amphistaff battle, and then Luke and Onimi in a lightsaber to lightsaber battle, since we do know that Shimraa ends up with a lightsaber according to the TUF audio excerpt.

Anguirus111

10-05-2003, 10:35 PM

I'd like it to be revealed that the Vong are from Earth and then have the entire SW galaxy explodes because the Vong don't like to loose(yes I know this won't happen).

Also, the idea that the Vong were ruled by machines is an interesting idea.

3rdgenerationfett

10-06-2003, 12:48 AM

I dont think they will explain why the Vong hate machines any more than they have, but its an intriguing idea hando.

This book better be long, and there better be ALOT of pages dedicated to a battle at Mon Cal and a battle at Yuuzhan'tar. I think we will see the entire galaxy (GFFA,CHiss,Empire,Hapan,Sekot) come together in the final war effort.

I really like the idea of Jacen with the shamed ones using amphistaff. Onimi will be captured by the GFFA or something like that.

Nom Anor i dont know. I do not know. If he dies, Mara or Luke. Maybe Jaina, but she will probably do something heroic in her X-Wing.

Tahiri could be doin alotta stuff, maybe with jacen and the shamed. hmm.

I think Corran will have a fairly big role, and hopefully all the military leaders will also. Ackbar goes down in combat, hopefully next to Sien Sovv, so that Wedge or Kre'fey or Bel Iblis can be the Supreme Commander. Grand Admiral Pellaon will probably bite it also (he's like 85!!!)
Possible Luke death. I'm hopin for a Lando death also, but i hope he goes out well, fighting alongside Talon Karrde or something.

As for the rumors of Boba Fett, this makes me happy. i hope it isnt in fact Boba Fett, but a son (possibly clone) of Boba doin some special stuff, maybe under contract from Lando and/or Karrde??? Hey, look at my username, i love the Fetts.

well thats all i can think of currently.

Handothrawn

10-06-2003, 07:31 AM

Well, you know, Bel Iblis isn't exactly a spring chikcen himself.

Master Cephus

10-06-2003, 12:49 PM

I see the final showdown between Jacen and Shimraa.

Omini is the brother of Shimraa, that is why a shamed one is a familiar of the Supreme Ruler...

just wait.

Oh and you know how I feel about Wedge...

Handothrawn

10-06-2003, 04:46 PM

Ten bucks says JL throws in a needless battle at Endor.

Rukh

10-06-2003, 09:56 PM

I kinda agree with that, it just kinda makes sense.

DarthSolo

10-07-2003, 01:39 AM

yeah, probably the opening battle scene or something.

Soontir Solo

10-07-2003, 04:30 PM

I don't see Endor being the site of a battle personally, but who knows....

Nice ideas 3GF, I think we agree on pretty much everything almost........with a few differences.

3rdgenerationfett

10-09-2003, 03:24 AM

why thank you supreme commander. now what might be those differences. i think discussing mara is a moot point, you believe what you believe and i disagree. there. anything else?

Soontir Solo

10-20-2003, 04:27 PM

Well..................I dont' think Lando will do. And if Nom does die I think it will be by the hands of Jacen or Tahiri (The two with the most kinship to the Vong)

DragonTamer

10-20-2003, 05:02 PM

i think that Zonoma Sekot is important.

i think Sekot was the origanal Yuuzan'tar.

after that not much of an ideas.

although something hinted at in i believe VP will become much clearer.

Handothrawn

10-21-2003, 08:00 AM

What was hinted at in VP?

Luvinna

10-21-2003, 11:54 AM

Not sure what DragonTamer is talking about, but there have been a lot of things hinted at in several of the books that none of the authors picked up and used. One I remember specifically is from Balance Point. Something about a connection between Duro and Centerpoint. Hasn't been mentioned since. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif

Soontir Solo

10-21-2003, 02:43 PM

Now im really wondering about this hint in VP he's talking about.

Master Cephus

10-22-2003, 01:45 AM

only thing I can think of is this:

***Spoilers***

When Nem Yin (or whatever her name was) found out the truth, she said how Shrimraa was going to have to face that he was lied to or something like that.... I can't remember but it's in there maybe that was the hint

Luvinna

10-22-2003, 11:21 AM

I didn't think Nen Yim and Shimraa were in Vector Prime. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

Like I said though... Yet one more hint that was mentioned and has never been expounded on. ???

Soontir Solo

10-22-2003, 12:41 PM

All that was in TFP Cephus. And from I gathered it was about how the VOng should have been. So basically Nen Yim found out all teh answers to the questions that Jacen and company are trying to find answers too.

Master Cephus

10-24-2003, 11:07 AM

your right. I was just not paying attention. If there was a hint in VP, it would have already come to fruition because that was what 18 books ago? and it was 4 years ago as well. That is too long ago to tie in something that has not been an underlying hint all the way through...

Soontir Solo

10-24-2003, 11:42 AM

I agree

I wish we could have gotten a better clue from Nen Yim in TFP before she died. Nom Anor was so stupid when he killed her right before she was going to tell him everything.

Maybe Jacen or Tahiri will use that specail qahsa or whatever it was that showed Nen Yim Zonamo Sekot's memories. Then they will find the answers, reveal it to the Vong somewhere and Shimrra will be killed by Jacen.

Handothrawn

10-24-2003, 12:31 PM

Yeah, that was really wrong.
"The secret is..." BANG!
What a rip-off.

Luvinna

10-24-2003, 12:49 PM

Soontir SoloMaybe Jacen or Tahiri will use that specail qahsa or whatever it was that showed Nen Yim Zonamo Sekot's memories. Then they will find the answers, reveal it to the Vong somewhere and Shimrra will be killed by Jacen.
I thought Nom Anor still had that qahsa. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif

DarthSolo

10-25-2003, 11:25 PM

does anyone have page count on this book yet? im hopin for SBS size, and about 200 pages dedicated to whatever final battle takes place.

Handothrawn

10-26-2003, 11:18 AM

Complete Spoilers for TUF, jsut read from this page and all the way up to 19 (http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=13200824&page=13)

DarthSolo

10-26-2003, 05:02 PM

started readin that link, very interesting, but my attention span betrayed me. i think i read 529 pages though? not bad. lookin forward to this book!

Soontir Solo

10-27-2003, 05:24 PM

Luvinna: There were two of them, the one Nom had was the one Nen Yim brought to the planet, but the one im talking about was one she created to allow her to access the memories of Zonoma Sekot.

Luvinna

10-27-2003, 07:44 PM

That's right. Thanks for refreshing my memory. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif And I only finished that book a couple of weeks ago. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

Soontir Solo

10-28-2003, 11:07 AM

I think Tahiri and Jacen will learn teh secrets of Zonoma Sekot, or will be told the secrets by Zonoma Sekot.

I just had this wild thought

Remember when in Edge of Victory 1: Conquest Ikrit told Anakin and Tahiri that they had some important destiny together? Or something like that?

Maybe he was mistaken and that destiny he speaks of is actually Tahiri and Jacen, instead of Anakin. Because he and Anakin didn't don anything important together.

Marbleman

10-28-2003, 04:05 PM

yup either that or anakins still alive. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

Handothrawn

10-28-2003, 05:05 PM

Yeah, and I'll beleive that when Gamorreans can fly X-wings...oh wait...damn.

Luvinna

10-28-2003, 11:08 PM

If my throat didn't hurt so much, I'd be laughing my head off!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

*cough* *cough* style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

PadmeQte

10-30-2003, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by Handothrawn@Oct 28 2003, 04:05 PM
Yeah, and I'll beleive that when Gamorreans can fly X-wings...oh wait...damn.
Ok that was funny, lol style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Soontir Solo

10-31-2003, 07:43 AM

Anakin isn't alive, im sure.

But Ikrit definitely got his prophecy wrong I think, its Jacen and Tahiri that are stronger together than apart and its those two that will be the key to defeating the Yuuzghan Vong.

Handothrawn

10-31-2003, 07:47 AM

No, I think it was Tahiri he meant, I think he meant that Riina and Tahiri were stronger together than apart, prophecies in the saga have always come true in a way, so I think that the prophecy had to be about Tahiri.

destro53

10-31-2003, 04:25 PM

Thought- Shimrra is said to get a lightsaber. Let's disect that. Shimrra, the leader of those who think lightsaber are the ultimate abomination (a. Jedi related, b. creates fire, c. its a machine) But is it that suprising to note that Shimrra seems quite the 'Jeedai' himself. He can read minds, detect falsehood, and has the exact kind of presence Jedi see in each other. Shimrra is the missing link between Vong and the Force. He controls the sprectrum of Force outside of the Jedi's perception. That's my opinion. The Jedi find how to widen their perception and incorporate that part of the Force into them, allowing them to fight the Vong with the Force.

Shimrra doesn't hate the Jedi because he doesn't have the Force. He hates them because they have it ALSO.

DarthSolo

10-31-2003, 08:02 PM

yeah, ive thoght about that. maybe shimraa will be the key to the figuring out the link between the vong and the Force. i dont think he is a Jedi in disguise or anything, but it does seem quite strange his mind powers. i dont think the authors wrote that in just for fun.

Luvinna

11-04-2003, 05:42 PM

For anybody with Hyperspace, James Luceno did an online chat yesterday. You can read it right here. (http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jsp?forum=78&thread=144013&start=0&msRange=15) He talks a lot about TUF.

Luvinna

11-05-2003, 10:58 AM

Ok. I wanna know who started the rumor that Boba Fett is on the back cover of TUF. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

Nathan Butler

11-05-2003, 11:06 AM

Uhm, he is. Take another look.

Luvinna

11-05-2003, 11:08 AM

I sat and stared at the book for about five minutes, and I can't see him. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif

Nathan Butler

11-05-2003, 01:35 PM

Back cover, in the top right quadrant, sort of in a reflection. It almost looks more like Jango armor with how the lighting is done. He's facing the right with a blaster drawn, as I recall. (I'm at work, so I can't check.)

Jediwan

11-05-2003, 02:10 PM

TUF is out in saskatcewan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathan Butler

11-05-2003, 05:27 PM

Ah, the heck with it.

Here's the Fett section. Use the text box and finger as a guide.

Luvinna

11-05-2003, 05:38 PM

Ah, thanks. I was going to look when I got home from work. Still, he's quite small. I guess I was expecting something along the lines of Han or Leia, or maybe the baby on the back of Balance Point.

jade51999

11-05-2003, 06:42 PM

OK..so i don't want to know anything about the book except this..

Does Mara survive..

i was looking at the cover and there's a tear on Luke's cheek..and its creeping me out everytime i lok at it

Dingo

11-06-2003, 09:16 AM

Mara survives. In fact, there are very few deaths at all, with only 4 major NJO characters coming to mind, and 3 of those being Vong.

Sabrina Fried

11-06-2003, 10:21 PM

TUF is out in Toronto as well. Most of the Indie bookshops have it although for some reason Indigo says they won't have it until December...they hope.

hmmmmmmm...

Sabrina

Nathan Butler

11-06-2003, 10:26 PM

"Mara survives. In fact, there are very few deaths at all, with only 4 major NJO characters coming to mind, and 3 of those being Vong."

::thinks::

Ah, THAT's the fourth one! Quite the subtle way they worked that in, ey?

Honestly, now I really wish they WEREN'T making a post-NJO novel trilogy. This needs to be the end, unless Denning can pull off a final chapter as well done as TUF's.

Kahlee

11-09-2003, 04:39 PM

Hey all, this is going to have spoilers for those of you who don't want any.

Kahlee

11-09-2003, 04:42 PM

Alrighty, one of the things that bothered me the most was how they screwed up Pash Cracken's rank and Page's rank.

Cracken has been flying almost as long as wedge, was a wing ccommander while wedge was commanding Rogue squadron, and was a General in TFP, then all of a sudden he's a Major.

Then Page, who's been leading one of the top NR commando units for 20 years is a Captain? He was a Lt, when we first run across him.

Other than those, and a few other things, I rather liked the book.

Handothrawn

11-09-2003, 09:03 PM

Actually Capatain outranks Lt., at least in Air Force ranks, anyway. So Page could have been promoted since we last saw him, and I don't trust ranks that much in the EU anyway, Wedge should be an Admiral by now, what did Kre'fey do to deserve it? We hadn't even heard of him before VP, Kre'fey probably hadn't picked up a blaster by the time Wedge was liberating Coruscant, but I digress.

James T. Skywalker

11-09-2003, 10:46 PM

I'd rather that Denning do a Yuuzhan Vong/Sekot origins series than a post-NJO trilogy, myself.

Actually, if I could have anyone do an origins series, it'd be Stover. Something tells me he'd be able to nail the intricacies of how the living Yuuzhan'tar stripped it's primordial species from the Force, how that species turned on its' maker and destroyed their homeworld, and how that homeworld ended up saving itself in the form of Sekot... it's all very deep and could hit some great philosophical levels, and the only person other than Luceno that I've seen do that is Stover.

I think I'll post a review of this book later. If you want, I've already posted one on the Official Site's forum's TUF thread.

~JTS

CzulkangLah

11-10-2003, 12:45 AM

Hey Hando, I think what Kahlee was trying to say about page's rank is this... After 20 years of leading one of the top NR commando units, It dosen't make sense that he has only been promoted once.

I like Kre'fey. maybe not as much as Wedge and such. Although I think thqat the new GFFA's supreme commander should have been Pellaeon, if, i can't remember if they already did, the Imperial Remnant ever got around to joining the GFFA.

Dingo

11-10-2003, 09:12 AM

It's the way that Luceno can work in so many little things without making a big deal of them that endears him to me.

And I agree that the only person to be able to do the who origins bit would be Stover. Considering how violent that time would have been, his style is the only one of the current SW authors that would really fit.

As for Dennings trilogy, my one wish for it would be that it's done in the same sort of style as Shield of Lies, with each novel really being a different strand of the story. Something different, and also considering there are really 3 main areas of wrap-up to the NJO, it would work.

Master Cephus

11-10-2003, 10:26 AM

Just finished the book late last night.

Thoughts:

Great ending. Don't want to give too much away but the surprise at the end really did get me in a way...

Later on I will tell of the only thing I was disappointed at in the book but if I tell now, I might ruin something for someone...

Master Cephus

11-10-2003, 10:53 AM

Well Soontir and I were both wrong with who will die in this...

But I have to say that I thought Ackbar deserved a little aside during his last moments.... maybe a dialogue between him and Winter... I don't know that was the only thing I didn't like about the book.

CzulkangLah

11-10-2003, 01:10 PM

I would have liked to see Ackbar go down in combat. he was a great leader and warrior and should have died a warriors death.

ash_r2d2

11-10-2003, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Handothrawn@Oct 26 2003, 10:18 AM
Complete Spoilers for TUF, jsut read from this page and all the way up to 19 (http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=13200824&page=13)
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif Hi

Dingo

11-12-2003, 09:32 AM

Okay, I can't resist doing this, but another place to get spoilers is by following this link http://www.episode-x.com/expandeduniverse/...ews.php?id=1022 (http://www.episode-x.com/expandeduniverse/news.php?id=1022)

Sorry for the shameless publicity there. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

Soontir Solo

11-13-2003, 11:04 AM

I read it Dingo, I kind of wished I hadn't though.

Leiafan

11-13-2003, 05:09 PM

I've heard this book is good. I'm glad, because I loathed Luceno's previous books and the way he crapped all over Han and Leia's romance. Even he admits he went too far.

Gendi

11-13-2003, 10:32 PM

I finally snagged enough time yesterday to finish this book. I think it was a good ending overall. I agree that Ackbar's death was too overlooked. I thought perhaps they could done something else to recognize him such as right before battle renaming the flagship in his honor or some such. While I am not a huge fan of the new Tahiri-Riina, I thought she could have had a bit more dialogue. And what did Sekot say to Danni? But anyway, like I said, I enjoyed it. I kinda rushed b/c I was so ready to finish this series up so I am thinking about rereading the hardbacks... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif I probably missed some details in this one(not to mention I was half asleep trying to finish a couple of nights as well).

Soontir Solo

11-17-2003, 04:11 PM

Mara should have died, but awhile. I'll get over it.

I really enjoyed this book. The battle for Coruscant really was incredible. Zonama Sekot was awesome. Jacen, Jaina, and Luke vs. the Slayers was awesome. Luke killing Shimmra was awesome. I especially enjoyed reading about Jacen killing the real Supreme Overlord Onimi. I was surprised Nom died, I wish he hadn't. At least he got to kill Drathul. I am a little disappointed that Kre'fey was given so much spotlight and importance. Antilles, Bel Iblis, and Pellaeon were all over-looked and should have had better roles over Kre'fey. Kre'fey is over-rated. I think Bel Iblis should have became the new Supreme Commander over Kre'fey. It was cool how the entire galaxy seemed to unite, Hapans, Imperials, Former New Republic, and even a few Chiss. Ackbar should have had a more memorial death, but I'll get over that too.

Great book. 4.9 out of 5 stars in my oppinion.

Rukh

11-17-2003, 04:20 PM

Oh, well if we're rating it, I'll give it a 4.693210335 out of 5 fingers up.

Soontir Solo

11-17-2003, 05:06 PM

And they did kind of piss me off by saying Page was only a Captain and Pash only a Major. Both are Generals and we all know it. Pash was the second best pilot for the New Republic besides Wedge (not including Jedi of course) and Page led his Commando teams on tons of missions to retake worlds and on raids on what not. But I'll get over these small descrepancies as well.

Plo Koon

11-17-2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Handothrawn@Nov 9 2003, 09:03 PM
Actually Capatain outranks Lt., at least in Air Force ranks, anyway.
Captain outranks lieutenant in every military branch.

So far this right here is one of the best Star Wars books I've ever read.

Soontir Solo

11-18-2003, 03:32 PM

Does anybody think the ending wasn't good? Any questions left unanswered still?

Luvinna

11-20-2003, 07:19 PM

FYI: I merged the two TUF threads into one since there's really no point in having two threads on the same topic. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

I, too, thought this book was better then Luceno's first two SW books. There were actually times I didn't want to put the book down. There still seems to be a problem with Jedi remembering that lightsabers can be used to open doors, though. First Tahiri and Jaina in the FH series, and now Mara in TUF. Go figure. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif

I thought the ending was ok. I pretty much figured the war would end the way it did since about last year. Very reminiscent of Raymond E. Feist's ending to the Rift War.

I'm curious what everyone else thinks about what I like to call the "Sword in the Stone" thing. You know. Where Han took Anakin's lightsaber and stuck it into the tree that was Chewie's memorial, and then Luke's line about how only someone who is as noble as Chewbacca would be able to remove it. I think it's an obvious lead-in to the post-NJO books.

I'm sure that if I went back and reread the series, I'd find lots of unanswered questions. One that comes to mind right now is Centerpoint. For about a year after it first made an appearance in the NJO, they still made like Centerpoint was crucial to the story. Then they just dropped it. Was that because their attempts to repair it were unsuccessful?

hootieblah

11-21-2003, 03:54 PM

I thought this book was great and I think Luceno did a pretty good job in bringing closure to a lot of storylines that had been left open by other writers. I loved how this was pretty much wall to wall action as well, though I did forget what planet I was on, from time to time:)

DarthSolo

11-21-2003, 08:44 PM

this book was amazing, 9.5/10!!! ENDING GREAT!!! New found respect for Luke baby, though i really thought he was gonna die. When he Jacen and Jaina stormed the Citadel, that was amazing, and how the trio took on the slayers, AWESOME!!! That final battle rivals The Ganner i think! I really like Nas Choka in this book. I think they coulda done a little better with Boba Fett, but it was acceptable, Ackbar should have died in combat, or had at least an on-page death. Kre'fey's part was cool, though i woulda liked to see more of the other commander's, as well as tahiri playing a slightly larger part. I really was hoping Nom Anor would actually joined the Heretics for good in the end, but his part was still amazing! Going into the book i was hopin that something great would happen between Jag and Jaina, but i started to read their final dialogue, and i started to want her to dump him for good, but then they just kept it lingering..i dunno. I loved how they at least mentioned all the Jedi around, and how some played a slightly larger part, like Markre Medjev, who i barely knew existed earlier! The onimi thing i really hoped didnt happen, but when it did, it was done perfectly. you were right hando. I didnt think too much about the 'sword in the stone' thing, luv. nothin wrong with it i guess.

Oh, and i think centerpoint is dead either because of repairs or the fact that anakin is dead...

Whuffa

11-23-2003, 07:31 AM

OK, I finished the book 2 days ago and I have to say that Luceno pleasently suprised me. I give it a 4/5. His writing style has improved dramaticaly, he didn't have 20 cameos on every page, and he navigated both the action and drama sceneswith grace. Most of the gripesI have with the book are probably not his fault. First off, I felt that a lot of things that happened in the last 2 books were last minute ideas of the creavtive team -Quoreal- we never heard of him beforeans suddenly he is mentioned 20 times on each page. Also - the elite, we might have presumed that the Vong society also had its elite, but they just dropped it on us and again mentioned it over and over again. Then, there were no major good-guy deaths, except ACkbar, but we all kind of saw it coming and he died in bed,not in a blaze of glory. I mean was one sacrifice too much to ask for in the grand final battle? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
I liked how the story was wrapped up with obvious introductions to the major story lines in Denning's trilogy - Han, Leia, Luke and Marain the Corporate Sector; Jaina and Jag running around and bumping into each other; and Tahiri, Danni and the others who stayed on Zonama Sekot with the Vong.
I'm sad that the series is over 'cause it's been around forever, and now we have to wait over a year to find out what happens next!

saber1001

11-23-2003, 07:40 PM

TUF was great, as good as a ending as I could think of. And about centerpoint, I hope that it is never mentioned again.

Soontir Solo

11-24-2003, 11:39 AM

I hope Centerpoint isn't mentioned again either.

The only thing about this book that really pissed me off was Admiral Kre'fey. They made it seem like he was the best commander out there. He got all the spotlight and during the big meetings Luceno had Kre'fey running the meetings, not Supreme Commander Sovv. Sovv seemed more like Kre'fey's subordinate. I thought Bel Iblis and Pellaeon should have had much more important roles. At least more so than Kre'fey. And he should not have been made Supreme Commander at the end. That was just stupid. Kre'fey has less experience than Bel Iblis, Riekkan, Cracken, Antilles, especially Pellaeon, and even Tycho. At least Tycho was finally made a General, that made me happy.

I was all for a Supreme Commander Bel Iblis, I just am not a big fan of Kre'fey at all. I think he is over-rated and not near as good a commander/soldier as many others.

James T. Skywalker

11-24-2003, 12:12 PM

The only problem with a Supreme Commander bel Iblis would be the possibility of his demise; he is, after all, not a 'spring chicken.' Bel Iblis would have been 81 during the year of TUF...

~JTS

CzulkangLah

11-27-2003, 04:08 PM

Yes, bel Iblis and Pellaeon are both old geezers, Traest Kre'fey is relativly young. Sovv retired, and of course he had it in his mind that he was going to retire, and that Kre'fey would be the new SC, so he let Kre'fey take a bit more of the Riegns.

Soontir Solo

11-27-2003, 06:10 PM

The age thing is a descent point, but if Bel Iblis was in good enough shape to be a fleet commander and be out there in battle then im sure he was good enough to be the Supreme Commander where his only job is to create stragies and basically give orders to his Fleet Commanders. Thats all Sovv did anyways. He never led a fleet into battle in the NJO, he just made sure everything was going right and made all the very important decisions.

Bel Iblis would have been better for this than Kre'fey. Plus Kre'fey is damn close to being Anti-Jedi, Pro-Alpha Red, and Definitley Pro Ar'krai. It just doesn't make sense to give him such a powerful position.

DarthSolo

11-28-2003, 03:21 AM

its all about political jargon. Bel Iblis started out bad, on the wrong side of MOn Mothma, and in the end, the bothans threw their weight around and Kre'fey was Admiral and Bel Iblis was general. position goes to the higher ranked.

Soontir Solo

11-29-2003, 06:07 AM

First off I have never had any proof that Admiral is higher than General. In real life military they are equilivant positions. In Rebel Dream General Antilles was mad that Lusankya wasn't commanded by an Admiral, which leads me to believe that Admiral is not necessarily a higher position because if it was commanded by an Admiral, General Antilles would have still be higher ranked. He would still have been the Admirals commander.

Who cares if he started out on the wrong side of Mon Mothma? He made up with her in Last Command 20 years before the NJO. It might have been because he went against Sovv in Star By Star. He actually decided to try and stop the Vong and save Coruscant, unlike what Sovv wanted him to do. Since Kre'fey supported Sovv at Coruscant he might have ensured he was Sovv's favorite.

But Bel Iblis was still way better than Kre'fey. I think everybody can agree on that. He should have Supreme Commander. And if Admiral is technically a higher position than Admiral in Star Wars, Which I have seen no proof to support this only proof to disprove it, then they should have promoted Bel Iblis to Admiral back in the Thrawn Trilogy.

Whuffa

11-29-2003, 07:02 AM

But these people had been fighting the empire for decades until just 10 years ago. It's completley understandable all of them wouldn't be comfortable letting an Imperial lead them into battle. Few people can forgive and forget so easily.

DarthSolo

11-29-2003, 05:58 PM

ive never seen any actual evidence saying admiral is higher than general, it just seems that way, because Admiral Ackbar was the big comander, and Admiral Sovv was the Supreme Commander, and Admiral Piett was before General Veers, and Grand Admiral is the highest rank you can get. no actual proof, its just something i thought everyone assumed.

I agree that Bel Iblis is a beter tactician, but that isnt knocking Kre'fey. I think Bel Iblis probably does better in battle tactics whereas Kre'fey is good with coordinating fleets and where they should go when. its two different kinds of tactics. honestly, i wouldnt mind either of them as my supreme commander.

Soontir Solo

12-03-2003, 12:09 PM

Everybody assumes that but I think General is probably equilavent to Admiral.

I dont think Kre'fey is better at anything. Bel Iblis is a better strategist, could coordinate fleets better, and is WAY more experienced. There really is no comparison between Kre'fey and Bel Iblis.

But Pellaeon is just as good as Bel Iblis I think.

DarthSolo

12-04-2003, 01:30 AM

Palleon woulda been my pick also. Good political move to bring the empire into the GFFA (just tell the NR peeps to deal with it, look at the change) and Pelleon is just a genious in the first place. only downfall is he is pretty old, as is Bel Iblis.

Soontir Solo

12-04-2003, 05:01 PM

Pellaeon may be old, but I think its too his advantage. Its made him a killer warrior. He knows all the tricks now and is wise. He is better now than he was during the Thrawn Trilogy I think because he is older. Its made him more battle tested and given him more knowledge of war than pretty much everybody except maybe Bel Iblis.

DarthSolo

12-05-2003, 02:19 AM

oh yeahl, no doubting that, wisdom comes with age. but ya know what else comes with age? death. Pellaon is liable to croak within 5 years, some with Bel Iblis.

Soontir Solo

12-15-2003, 05:05 PM

But they are both in good condition, people can live till over 100 given proper care and the good conditions, and this is Star Wars. With stuff like bacta they could live 20 or 30 more years. Age shouldn't be a factor, the ability to lead and should be. Its much harder for them to be fleet commanders, as far as age is concerned, than a Supreme Commander. And Pellaeon leads the entire Remnant, a mini-Empire. He has done that just fine and Bel Iblis has led his fleet just fine so obviously with them age truly is not a factor at all.

DarthSolo

12-16-2003, 01:18 AM

well whats done is done i guess. coulda been different, i woulda liked it either way.

Soontir Solo

12-17-2003, 11:01 AM

I just hate Kre'fey though. He was ok in Dark Tide 1 and 2 but by the time it got to Star By Star I hated his stupid ass.

mirax terrik horn

12-17-2003, 01:24 PM

yeah he needed to actually do something. I just got the book on sunday and read it (all of it) sunday night. the end was kinda dissapointing.

Soontir Solo

12-17-2003, 04:06 PM

Yes, he didn't do ANYTHING. What battles did he win? None really. Zonamo Sekot and the Jedi won the Battle for Coruscant. Bel Iblis did more at the first battle of Coruscant, he also did more at Ebaq 9. Obroa-Skai was won by Farlander. Borleias by Wedge. Hapes by Jaina. Pellaeon won alot of battles in the Remnant and at Esfandia, plus he was the main commander at Ithor. I guess you could say he won Serpidal, but even that was more Kyp than anything. Ylesia was mainly won by Jacen.

He just didn't do anything, except give genocidal speeches to his soldiers.

Sam Kenobi

12-20-2003, 08:33 PM

What do you guys think about Jaina Solo and Jag? I thought Jaina was being a little dramatic. Anyone else?
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sidxmas.gif :yodaxmas: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/maulxmas.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/vaderxmas.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/leiaxmas.gif

Soontir Solo

12-21-2003, 05:31 PM

I think Jaina is stupid, she should have went with him to Csilla. She better not forget about him, not after all the drama she went through to get with him in the first place.

DarthSolo

12-22-2003, 12:00 AM

i woulda liked to see something more solid, either ended it for sure, or made an actual commitment, not just 'see ya around sometime...' but ah well, means jaina is still available to me....

Master Cephus

12-22-2003, 01:47 AM

Or what about Jacen and his triangle of love?? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

You would have thought that either Tenel would have came back, or at least Danni would have stayed around...

She blew him off like he was nothing...

DarthSolo

12-22-2003, 02:53 AM

the relationship wasnt developed enough, it had a chance after DW, but they didnt run with it, i think Jacen will live alone forever.

Soontir Solo

12-22-2003, 05:30 PM

I think Jacen will find somebody eventually, probably not till he's like 40 though. Like around Luke's age when he got with Mara. Hopefully it will be Tenal Ka though. It better be.

Jaina is meant to be with Jag, that much im sure of. Its just a matter of when ever she is ready to make that committment totally.

Sam Kenobi

01-02-2004, 02:22 AM

I'm just worried about Star Wars in general. There's not much you can do to these people after an intergalactic invasion threatenst the galaxy that really seems threatening.

Soontir Solo

01-02-2004, 04:35 AM

I see your point Sam, and its a good one. Im also worried about it, but what can we do? There are things in the Unknown Regions that are out there and could be huge threats, plus im not sure but I think the Ssi-Ruuk are still out there. You've still got the Bothans, who may still want the total extinction of the Yuuzghan Vong. You've still got the Imperials, if Pellaeon dies who knows what they might do.

Marbleman

01-02-2004, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by DarthSolo@Dec 22 2003, 01:53 AM
i think Jacen will live alone forever.
I hope so. He deserves it. I would love for Jacen to come back to Tenel Ka with the hope of getting back together:

"Oh Tenel Ka, I've always loved you. Its just that I was going through an emotional roller coaster and became irresistably attracted to older women. And also consider that I don't care about other people's feelings (maybe a World Brain or a cactus, but not people). So, you understand: I was right because I saved the galaxy at the end. And it all worked out for the best, right?"

It is my sincere desire for Tenel Ka to lead him on and then - when the timing is perfect - drop him like the unconstant sack of bantha s*** that he is. That is a fact. And then I will bludgeon him with a stun baton. Happy Day after New Year, everyone. :yodaxmas:

Soontir Solo

01-02-2004, 10:06 AM

Harsh marbleman, why such anger towards Jacen? An unconstant sack of bantha s***?

DarthSolo

01-03-2004, 03:40 AM

i could actually care less about Tenel Ka! or her relationship with jacen. i think Jacen is meant to be alone for a while. did i already say that, or did i change my mind?

I think the NJO is the best move Del Rey coulda made for SW, because that stirred things up SOO much that there is just so much political crap that can go the wrong way and start conflicts that we can all read about! YAYA!

Soontir Solo

01-03-2004, 05:11 AM

That is true Darthsolo

DarthSolo

01-03-2004, 05:04 PM

of course it is, i speak only truth style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Emperor

01-05-2004, 02:13 PM

I got this book when it first came out and I'm only around page 200. I find this book to be incredibly dull.

DarthSolo

01-05-2004, 03:27 PM

why? have you read the whole NJO series?

Master Cephus

01-06-2004, 11:24 AM

After thinking about what Sam said above here, I am beginning to agree.

I think maybe they should go with more character development. Maybe have books devoted totally to certain characters. This would allow us to learn more about them.

They could start out with Ben, letting get to know him and then maybe flow into Jacen with him training Ben (that is just my opinion on who will train him). Then maybe go into Jaina and Jag...

Just a couple of books. Remember, we don't need another huge war right now, we already got a 20+ book series about that. We need to know what happens to the characters next on a more personal level

Emperor

01-06-2004, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by DarthSolo@Jan 5 2004, 02:27 PM
why? have you read the whole NJO series?
I've read every Star Wars novel in the Bantam/Del Rey lines.

DarthSolo

01-06-2004, 04:26 PM

good thought cephas, that would be good!

and emperor, why do you think the book is dull? everyone ive talked to has loved it, its a great end to the series, and its full of action and plot twists and good stuff. IMO

Soontir Solo

01-07-2004, 05:50 PM

The Unifying Force was absolutely amazing, I can say that the second half of the book is definitely better than the first half so maybe that is Emperor's problem. I dont think he will be disappointed by the 2nd half of the book.

I would definitely like future books to focus alot of Jacen. He has become my favorite Star Wars character and im intensely interested in what his future will be like

Marbleman

01-08-2004, 12:02 AM

i could actually care less about Tenel Ka!
Yeah DS that's the feeling I get from pretty much everybody in the New Jedi Order. Even Tenel Ka herself. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

Anyway I thought the Unifying Force was great. I thought the NJO series was a step up for Star Wars lore. Not because it was dark and "kewl," but because it was engaging and a bit unpredictable.

As far as any new books are concerned, I don't see why we can't eventually flash into the future where the older heroes have passed on and the torch is in the younger generation's capable hands. I really don't see how they can be dragged along for much longer without finding a magic youth elixir or becoming B'ommar monks and transplanting their brains into jars.

I would definitely like future books to focus alot of Jacen. He has become my favorite Star Wars character and im intensely interested in what his future will be like
That's a good idea soontir. I'd enjoy an entire series chronicling Jacen's struggle with a violent allergic reaction to oxygen.

Soontir Solo

01-08-2004, 03:11 PM

I can't picture that happening Marbleman.

Whuffa

01-08-2004, 04:40 PM

I'm hoping that they branch out into other eras after the clone wars are over. Up to now we've had 5 NJO books and 2 prequel books per year (usualy), in 2004 we're going to have 4 clone war books and a new republic novel. I'm thinking that after 2004 they could mix things up a bit - 1 post NJO novel, 1 clone wars novel, 1 classic era novel, 1 new republic novel, and maybe a Sith era trilogy? I'd like to see more diversity from now on.

Marbleman

01-09-2004, 01:29 AM

I'd like to see more diversity from now on.

Yeah Whuffa I'd like to see more novels based on events around the timeline of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic video game. If the popularity of that RPG was any indication, any series related to it would sell like hotcakes. And has anyone had a hotcake? They are delicious.

I can't picture that happening Marbleman.

It's a good scenario, soontir. Picture this: Jacen's face has become grossly swollen and covered with hives. One of the hives develops a malevolent personality and jumps off his face to wreak havoc. Jacen is forced to hunt and kill it. The series would end with an incredibly emotional scene with Jacen standing over the slain hive and weeping uncontrollably.

EDIT: The Unifying Force was great. See, I'm on topic.

Soontir Solo

01-09-2004, 06:51 PM

Its a very unique idea Marbleman, but I still can't picture it. Sorry.

darth bangkok

06-11-2004, 06:18 AM

The book was really kind of boring. There wasn't anything that was truly shocking. We knew the 'good' guys would win. We knew they wouldn't destroy the YV and let them live in the galaxy (if not, why not just use Alpha Red?). We knew that the 'problem' with the Force would be solved. Luke was concentrating too much on light & dark when its really just an all around more encompassing force.

And the farther and farther we got along in the series, the less and less dangerous it got - no one died. I think at one point there was a mention that 11,000 starfighters bit the dust during the final battle - but you would never have guessed that from reading what came before. Every battle was the same - a few pages to explain how the situation was hopeless and then some miracle that came along and saved everybody in the nick of time.

I wanted to scream after every one liner Leia spit out praising Han. It was torture getting through the first 200 or so pages. Han was dead (finally!!!!) - TWICE!! He got bit, struck by YV Amphistaffs, but survived each time. No one else has every done that. Remember when even Jedis struggled to kill a YV warrior? Now Leia is slicing them apart with her lightsaber that shes used, what, twice in the past twenty years. YV warriors are just dropping like flies at the end of the series. There was a time when it seemed that the YV were learning that just sacrificing themselves at every turn was not a good strategy, but that seemed to just go away. Same thing with coralskippers.

Why does every book have to cronicle everything Han and Leia do? Are we all that interested in what THEY do or do we want to know about the greater STORY of the NJO? I want to know about the story. The past 4 or 5 books, I've just been skipping the parts with Han and Leia in the, there was never a doubt as to the outcome. You just need to read the last two paragraphs of the chapters they are in to make sure you get any details that might be important. It was getting like the end of the EU before the NJO came out. BORING. With all that was going on in this book, they could have been left out for all I cared.

Someone else should have gotten it too, between Luke, Jaina and Jacen. Maybe Jacen could have been the only one to survive. I was actually rootin for Luke to die (but I didn't want him to) because no one else had. It would make the book so much more real. And the whole Omini 'revelation' at the end. That wasn't a twist. It was just corny! Why did he continue to persecute the shamed ones the way he did if he was one himself.

Overall, I enjoyed the book because there was a lot of action (too much action to waste time drawing out Han and Leia as usual - thank the maker!!) and it was exciting. But there was little suspense. And it was too 'clean' of an ending. No surprises.