MOVIES: The Lord of the Rings & Related Films

[Javen]

I saw the trailer for the 2 towers and it looked really good.

Also I watched Lord of the Rings last night on DVD and noticed something I did not at the theatre. Peter Jackson makes a cameo in one small little scene when Frodo and his friends go to the INN to wait for Gandolf, it shows him for like 2 seconds looking at them as they walk through the gate.
If you watch it again check it out.

[Blizzard]

Where did you get the DVD when it doesn't come out until the 6th?

I am not ready for it, I am on chapter 10 in the book and we only read one chapter a week. My friend reads it online every Wednesday night and anyone can listen (http://www.live365.com/stations/287843), it's fun.

[Darth Darthy]

Hmm, how are they gonna do those tree people? Ents if I remember...

[Javen]

Originally posted by Blizzard@Aug. 01 2002 - 18:36
Where did you get the DVD when it doesn't come out until the 6th?

I am not ready for it, I am on chapter 10 in the book and we only read one chapter a week. My friend reads it online every Wednesday night and anyone can listen, it's fun.
My brother works at Blockbuster Video and gets movies a week in advance before they come out.Oh and where can you read it online at?

[STar war spUNK]

oh man i am more than ready. next week dvd!!! woohoo!! but i can't get it on august 6th, because i'm waiting for the special edition 4 dvd set which costs oh about a mere 70 bucks. hahah. that comes out in november. but ihave a problem. should i buy it now and get a second copy in november? or just wait until november?? i cannot decide. also, i was joking around when i went to see mib2 with one of my friends, and i said to her... man there's nothing to look forward to in this movie because no more star wars previews. last time i saw lord of the rings, it was because there was a star wars preview in it. hahaha i didn't plan on loving it. and then i said, man won't it be pretty sweet if lord of the rings was in it? and then some preview with a house and some familiar music came on and i said to her... hahaha dude i thought it was lord of the r- and then i screamed cuz it was.. hahahahaa. yes yes i'm quite a geek. i know.

[Mann]

The next movie is going to be awesome!

I didn't think the trailer in theatres gives the movie away, but did you guys see the first Two Towers trailer? the one right after the first film ended? It was about five minutes long! and it had a whole bunch off stuff the second one didn't.

Does the music kick @$$ or what?

[DanielSkywalker]

Yeah, I'm really stoked about The Two Towers; I think it quite possibly could be better than the first one. I really want to buy The Fellowship of the Ring on DVD but the "Director's Cut" will be coming out in like November or something. So, I think I'm going to wait until that one is released 'till I buy it.

[Justin]

You guys, DON'T buy the DVD that's coming out on the 6th.

While it does have some cool stuff in it, there's an even cooler DVD coming out in a few months, with loads of extra features including a full hour that was cut from the movie.

So rent it now (like I did, I work at Blockbuster) but buy the better version later.

There's even a preview of the next DVD version on the first one. Go figure.

[Senator Theant]

OOOOOHHHH MAAAANNNNN

In a while lotta ways us Star Wars fans can thank God we have Peter Jackson . . .

Ive read the series four times already (which is nothing compared to what Im about it hear, im sure). I was soo hyped after I saw FOTR, I read the trilogy once again in 3 weeks to be sure I had the jist down for TTT. AM I ready? HEELLLLLSS YESSSSSS!! [no lack of enthusiasm there]. I have already caught a glimpse of the Ents and they looked IDENTICAL to the way I porttrayed them in my mind the first time I read the series, in the 6th grade. YEEEAAHHHHHH, lets give it up for Treebeard, hes the man--errr, Ent. If you saw the trailer of TTT in its cinematic debut following FOTR, you woulda seen 'em to. And thats why PJ has been sent to us from heaven to make up for the PR faults of GL. Trailers, news, pics, whatever are never hard to find in the LOTR world, as oppose to GL's pirvate little world. All I gotta say about this next film is this: Helm's Deep. Oh yea . . all you LOTR addicts know what Im talking about . . . in the soaking rain, man! God I forget the name but the Death Valley scene where Frodo crosses [and later Aragon], yea that scene is gonna be freaky. I remember seein pics of that somewhere, I think it was on the trailer too. But this film will rock!!!!! ROCK HARD!!!!


Long live The San Francisco 49ers, The Lord of the Rings, and The Star Wars Saga!

[AlanRJ]

Definitely looking forward to seeing the Two Towers, although I know for a fact that my fiancee will not be joining me as she hated the Fellowship of the Ring.

[Clara]

<span style="color:7000CC">I'm getting the DVD as soon as it comes out, and have been waiting for the preview at the movies for The Two Towers. I can't wait!</span>

[Redsabre]

<span style="color:red"> I saw the preview that came out at the end of Fellowship of the Ring AND the one that screened with MIIB. One thing they didn't show that I'm really looking forward to seeing is Shelob. I can think of a few people I'd like to feed to her . . .
(insert high-pitched Crypt-Keeper laugh here)</span>

[Mann]

Too bad Lucas wont let Jackson direct Episode III (When he first started the PT, he said he'd do just the first one and let others direct the final two) I would like to see Jackson become part of the Star Wars legacy.

Anyway, I can't wait for the Two towers. Even thoguth we already know what's gonna happen, we can still be excited right?

[RollaFett]

I'm not really a fan, but I am curious about something. I know that a 4 DVD set recently came out, but I have also seen a 5 DVD set advertised in a Best Buy circular. What gives? Anyone know?

[Darth Vegas]

It's the same set Golla, the difference is the gift pack has a free National Geographic dvd on Lord of the Rings, and some neat book holders.

I'm sure most of you have seen at least one trailer for Two Towers, I've seen all 4.

The wargs (half man half wolf beasts who joined with Saruman's orcs, they ride on huge fast wolf-like creatures) look awesome, Et (a.k.a. Treebeard) looks great, Gandalf escaping from the fire demon, the eye of Sauron on top of the tower of Barador, Frodo and Sam forcing Gollum to lead the to Mordor, and any other bit's are just a small portion of cool stuff in the full trailer and the last teaser.

One thing that is great about this film, is that alot f what was cut from the FOTR in the first movie, we will get to see this time around. We ge to see how the Hobbit Smeagol killed his brother Deagol for the One Ring and became Gollum. It's going to be longer than the first film, and even better than the first.

__________________________________


Admiral Piett,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Does anyone know where I can buy an elvish sword? [/b][/quote]

You can purchase Lord of the Rings official prop replicas through the Noble Collection (http://www.noblecollection.com), though they are very expensive.

I am purchasing a replica of The One Ring complete with chain and laser engraved writing, and either Aragorn's sword or the Blade that cut the Ring, or the double bladed Elvish sword from them.

It all depends on money an whether or not they still carry those products, the Ring is one of the only items from them that is not in limited stock.

[Brian]

My anticipation for this movie is higher that it was for AOTC. I can't wait to see it!!!

[Seanakin]

I gave in and got a ticket for the midnight showing here. Considering how I believe it's gonna kick everyone's (not just Episode II's) ass, I might have to get there WAY early this time.

Which is less fun in December than in May.

[Rogue_0009]

<span style="color:silver">Suck it up Sean, it could be worse. you could be here, 30 below 0 [celsius] this morning and I still had to walk...begins ranting angrily about coldness.......</span>

[Brian]

Originally posted by Seanakin@Dec 3 2002, 05:00 PM
I gave in and got a ticket for the midnight showing here.
Uhm, you do realize that it is going to be 3 AM when you get out of there. Better take some nodoze. :look:

I will opt to see it on Wednesday or Friday night. I can't stay up that late anymore. Hehe.

[Whisper]

I am drooooooliong in anticipation for this movie. FOTR kicked ass, and I see this one kicking that same ass, if not a bigger one!

[Seanakin]

I work overnights anyway, so 3am isn't going to do anything to me.

(Not that I wouldn't welcome working at a REAL job for once in my life.)

Rogue, I don't know about 30 below, but where I was raised I put up with some pretty nasty wind chill during much of the winter. I think I could handle it.

Besides, I tire sometimes of this mild winter climate I get here in Portland. I WANT SOME WINTER, DAMNIT!!!!:D

[Padme]

<font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=gold)'><span style="color:black">Did anyone watch the making of it on the WB. It was cool. The Two Towers is going to be awesome!!!</span></font>

[Tovor]

I saw it, and it looked awesome. Yet I regret seeing it now because I am slightly spoiled. I had not read any of the LOTR books and loved the 1st movie. Rather than following friend's suggestions and read The Two Towers, I had wanted to be completely surprised by the story. And now I know that Gandalf comes back. Argh! That would have been a sweet surprise.

[Padme]

<font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=gold)'><span style="color:black">Even though I saw some sneak previews, I still can't wait to see the movie!!!</span></font>

[Lonesabre]

Ive bought and reserved nine tickets for all of us to go to the premier showing! Really looking forward to it but nowhere nears as much as I was for the midnight showing of AOTC! COME ON! THAT WAS STARWARS!!!

[Luminara Skye]

<span style="color:royalblue">I'm excited to see The Two Towers, but not as excited as I was for AOTC. What day will TTT be released? I'll probably take my brother the first weekend it's out. We will probably go a few more times after that.</span>

[Aurra Sing]

I am so excited about LORT: The Two Towers. I want to go opening day, but unfortunatly it is smack dab in the middle of finals and my mom is like "NO!" grr...this bites the big one

[JediKeri.]

Tover I've known that since last spring!!!!!

[Brian]

Originally posted by Luminara Skye@Dec 5 2002, 07:20 AM
<span style="color:royalblue">What day will TTT be released?</span>
The movie will be released in USA on Wednesday, December 18, 2002.

[Seanakin]

I'm thinking what I ought to do is catch an afternoon or evening showing of Nemesis Tuesday night the 17th, and time it so I wouldn't have to stand in line for too long that night.

Probably do the day thing, so I can run back out to Fredo and grab my tunes and a book for the rest of the evening.

Heh...I feel so devious. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Good idea Seanakin. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

Opening night, some friends and I are renting a private booth for the first to showings, pizza, beer, we'll have it all............

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Yet I regret seeing it now because I am slightly spoiled. I had not read any of the LOTR books and loved the 1st movie.[/b][/quote]

Tovor the films while excellent entertainment are a pale comparison to the book. If you are a big reader and I would imgine that you are, Lord of the Rings is a must, though it takes paitience, it took me over a year the first time a read it, the thing's longer than the bible!!

All of the other books are great too, Tales from Middle Earth, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, the History of Middle Earth...................................

I strongly suggest to all who can handle the intensity of Lord of the Rings, that you read the books.

[Seanakin]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Dec 5 2002, 05:43 PM
Good idea Seanakin. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif
Hey, even I come up with one every now and then. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Master Patton]

Man...i won't be able to see the movie till new years eve!.............

[Darth Vegas]

Why is that?

[tunafishgirl]

i'm so ready for it. lotr is such an awesome story and the movie adaptation thus far is amazing. i've only seen one trailer...i've tried to avoid too much because i don't want to see very much before i see it in the movie. i have avoided seeing any pictures of treebeard. i can't wait to see him. i wonder if he'll be close to my own image of him. the two towers is going to be so awesome. it's by far my favorite part of the story.

i'm very sad that they included certain things in the trailers and posters. tovor, i'm sorry you had to find out about gandalf before the movie! that sucks so much. i can't understand why they did that. except, i have one idea...they're such fans of the story that they probably forgot that a lot of people haven't the book and that by putting him in the trailers, they would be ruining it for everyone.

only a week and a half to go!!! i've been so excited about it, i've been re-reading. and yesterday i took advantage of the lovely snow day (no work for me!) and watched the extended edition of FOTR, which is truly amazing!

i also have a free ticket to go see it...but like many of you, my favorite (digital) theater is not on the list. but it's okay. i'll see it multiple times and make sure to go elsewhere at least once to go for free...

[Javen]

Whoever has AOL, can goto AOL Live and Elijah Wood will be answering questions at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.

[Darth Vegas]

Today?

[Javen]

Yes right now.

[Darth Vegas]

He supposedto be on now but he is not. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif

[Brian]

I just watched the entire trailer for the first time. I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NEXT WEEK!!!

[QuigonWindu]

Yeah, why don't yall come to Baltimore we can see it together, all of us style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif the premiere

[Darth Vegas]

Opening night is good enough to me, Frodo is online now!!

[Darth Vegas]

Is this cool or what? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/151/FP1167.jpg (http://lordofmodor.conforums.com)

[tunafishgirl]

well, we bought our tickets for TTT on monday. we're going to see it at 2:50 p.m. on opening day at the uptown theater in dc. it's going to be so cool! i'm so excited. thank goodness i can leave work early that day!

[Darth Vegas]

That's cool.

I have to stay up all night to see the first showing with my friends, I ain't get no time off, but it's worth it.

[Darth Jay & Darth Bob]

man, that rings movie was scary with the video tape and the well and **** dudes that was freaky

[JediKeri.]

Dj&DB, that's not the movie we're talking about here...

[Javen]

I have a question, Who is the King, in Lord of The Rings?

I have not read the books, but after I see TT I will buy Return of The King.

Someone told me it was Aragorn?

[The Prism]

Yeah. It's Aragorn.

[Darth Vegas]

Hey Javen, you can buy The Lord of the Rings for about $5 more all together.

BTW, it was actually written and originally published as one book, it was seperated into three parts later.

[Seanakin]

Yeah, get the all-in-one version. A little heavier, but worth it.

[Darth Vegas]

Hey anyone seen the new T.V. spots?

Some cool stuff there, more of the Ents, Ring-Wraiths on their new flying beasts, oliphaunts, and a tad bit more of the Battle of Helms Deep, and not to mention some striking images of Mount Doom.

[tunafishgirl]

yes, i unfortunately saw them. i was trying to avoid seeing the ents and did such a good job...and then last night i looked up at the commercial and there they were. i was so mad. at least i didn't see treebeard.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah I was a little surprised myself, they had only showed treebeards face in the preview, now the commercial showed it all!

BTW, Treebeard is voiced by John Ryhs Davies

[CuppaJoe]

<span style="color:blue">I can't wait for The Two Towers **spongebobvoice**I'm readyImreadyimreadyimready**spongebobvoice**</span>

[Darth Jay & Darth Bob]

Originally posted by JediKeri@Dec 12 2002, 06:06 PM
Dj&DB, that's not the movie we're talking about here...
oh r u talkin bout that dumb movie wit the short guys prancin around talkin in wierd accents that sucked id idnt like that movie that sucked ass ha ha yo

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah but it sure is better than Star Wars, or Clerks for that matter.

100 million+ copies of the book sold, $800,000,000+ at the box office right behind A New Hope, oh yeah and it was nominated for more accademy awards then any movie EVER.

Yeah it sucked ass alright. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

Some people just lack a taste for good quality and story.

[Obidobi]

Link (http://www.theonering.net/movie/preview/) to trailers and tv spots!

[Darth Jay & Darth Bob]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Some people just lack a taste for good quality and story.[/b][/quote]

quel-e..wut/? whatcu saing man i dont undertand please explain yo

[Javen]

he sayng yo man enslish si you be undertand tat shizzle yo

[Darth Jay & Darth Bob]

Originally posted by Javen@Dec 14 2002, 04:52 PM
he sayng yo man enslish si you be undertand tat shizzle yo
......oh tanxs man i undertand now yo

[Seanakin]

English, what a novel concept. *SIGH*

The only reason those silly Jersey flicks are still popular is because of all the potheads who constantly forget the jokes and therefore find them perpetually fresh.

[Darth Jay & Darth Bob]

man whatchu talkin about/?...potheads can remember stuff man im on pot right now and my remembory is fine...what were we talkin bout again sorry i forgot man ha ha yo

[Darth Vegas]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The only reason those silly Jersey flicks are still popular is because of all the potheads who constantly forget the jokes and therefore find them perpetually fresh.[/b][/quote]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

Yeah, I've seen Clerks a few times, but all the others were good once after that just not funny.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>he sayng yo man enslish si you be undertand tat shizzle yo[/b][/quote]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>man whatchu talkin about/?...potheads can remember stuff man im on pot right now and my remembory is fine...what were we talkin bout again sorry i forgot man ha ha yo[/b][/quote]

Yeah, I'm sure your memory is fine, but it is a fact that when you are high on marijuana, your sense of reaction is a bit off, you'll think t do something, but rather won't do it, or won't attempt to do it for several hours.

Could be the problem with your typing. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif


131 hours 28 minutes and counting..............

[JediKeri.]

Bond, your counting

[Darth Vegas]

Now we're down to........

35 hours and 50 minutes (it starts Tuesday at 11:59 pm)..................

[Brian]

Thanks for posting that link, Obidobi! This movie is going to be sooo great!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif I can't wait!

[The Prism]

This may have already been covered, but who has their tickets already?

I got mine! 3 tickets for my two sisters and I for Wednesday at 8 pm. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Mann]

Got my tickets too. Seeing it Wednesday night. DID YOU GUYS SEE THE RING WRAITHS! THEY CAN FLY!

[BL-17]

I've got mine. First showing at 12:05 a.m., Wednesday. I am really excited about this. I caught my first glimpse of the Ents in the newest trailer. They look great! Treebeard is one of my favorite characters and he's sure to be well portrayed in this film.

[Javen]

Got mine to, there is 4 other people going with me.

[Darth Badly]

Seeing it first thing on Wednesday. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Brian]

Sadly, I won't be able to watch it until Friday. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Just another 16 hours. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

I might just sneak out to see it tonight. I'll be alone but oh well, it's so worth it.

[Vibroblade]

I'll see it some time in the next week.

I'm moderately excited to see this movie. I'm a huge fan of the books and I fall somewhere b/w love and really like the first movie. I would have loved it more if they had left out the psychedelic sh%t, like the scene with Galadriel and her temptation of the Ring.

[Javen]

Originally posted by Javen@Dec 16 2002, 07:51 PM
Got mine to, there is 4 other people going with me.
There is now 7 of us going together, only if I could get 2 more I would have a Fellowship of 9.

[The Prism]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>There is now 7 of us going together, only if I could get 2 more I would have a Fellowship of 9.[/b][/quote]

Well, you have all except Gandalf and Boromir, which still sorta works style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[JediKeri.]

I won't get to see it til Christmas day....

[Javen]

Why not Keri?

[Brian]

Peter Jackson visited the set of Episode II during production. How cool is that?!

Source: starwars.com (http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/imageattack/2002/12/imageattack20021217.html)

[JediKeri.]

Javen: One: I got to work...Two: my parents all want to go as a family.

[Mann]

So, who saw it? was it really good?

[Javen]

I heard Seanakin seen it, so please give me the scoop before I leave to go see it tonight.

[Darth Vegas]

Great flick! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

Although, I don't think it was as good as the first. Cooler, yes, more action packed, well duh, but The Fellowship of the Ring has always been my favorite part of the Story.

We might not have seen Tom Bombadil, but Merry and Pippin mentioned the Old Forest in the film.

[Mann]

I saw it last night. Superb film. I agree Fellowship was better, but this one was more fun to watch.

(spoiler alert)


My favorite part was when the trees fight the orcs and destroy Isengard.

[The Prism]

I thought it was okay. It had it's funny moments, and I liked when (highlight to read)<span style="color:silver"><font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=silver)'>Frodo fell into the Dead Marsh, and the montage of Arwen thinking about her future with Aragorn.</font></span>

I didn't like that the movie cut the ending of the book off, leaving it for ROTK! I was expecting this movie to end on more of a dark note, so I was disappointed.

[tunafishgirl]

prism, i totally agree. i was also disappointed by that. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

so, you guys should come to the council of elrond to further discuss TTT. it's a great site. come on over. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

council of elrond (http://lordofmodor.conforums.com/index.cgi)

[QuigonWindu]

I'm BilboBagginsQGW.

[Javen]

I liked it alot, although at first I didn't like treebeard until he and his pals started kicking some orc butt.

I liked Gollum, what a psycho!

[Rob]

First off. If you think that the Lord of the Rings trilogy is just a collection of three movies go get a gun and shoot yourself for being an illiterate idiot. Read the books first. Then see the film. Or see the film and read the books for what your missing.

Commentary on the film:

Two words on The Two Towers: ****ing Awesome.

Additional Commentary:

First a few statements:

* Gollum makes Jar Jar Binks look like Mickey Mouse when he was Steamboat Willie.
* Peter Jackson is making George Lucas look like a director of one of those stinky TFN fan films.
* The three hours of screentime that TTT takes up makes Episode II seem like its 9 hours long, and makes Episode I seem like its 12 hours long. Pacing is excellent.

Rants:

Some of the items should have been expanded and not changed.

Examples:

* Pippin and Merry meeting Treebeard and the entire Ents thing should have been expanded. To hell with the screentime.
* Faramir should have been a bit more sympathetic, he seemed too much like Baromir
* Elves at Helms Deep? WTF?
* Why not include Gimli and Legolas' final count?

I could go on and on in finding problems, but the truth is, you don't notice them unless you're familiar with the texts. The fit in well with the film, and even though the film is not an exact translation of the text (that would be hellish!), it is still awesome.

Peter Jackson is brilliant, and even though there are flaws in TTT it doesn't matter. Thank the maker that Jackson had the balls to make LOTR, and thank the maker that 2002 held something better than Spider-Man and Episode II.

And yes, I do know that I work for a Star Wars site, and I do know this is a Star Wars message board. However, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that LOTR holds material that is exponentially better than anything offered in the prequel trilogy.

[Tovor]

I saw Two Towers today, and like the first time I saw FOTR, I need to see it again to fully appreciate it. I know I liked it a lot but throughout the whole film I kept feeling like I missed something, something I didn't hear or understand. Fans who read the books had no such trouble I'm sure, but I haven't read them yet. For years I have wanted to, and although friends urged me to read the trilogy before I saw FOTR and before TTT, I avoided that because I wanted to be surprised by the storyline. I intend to read the first 2 books but still won't read ROTK until that film comes out.

One of my problems is the different city names and kingdoms that when I hear them I can't place where they apply in the story. There is so much back-story to this saga that when it comes up I find myself in the dark. Another problem I had with this film was Gollum. I had a hard time understanding a lot of his speech throughout the story and I found myself struggling to fill in the blanks in all the half sentences of his that I managed to hear. As for his character, he took me by surprise. In the 1st film I thought of him as a hidious creature who should be killed ASAP. I found myself in this one feeling for him and being interested in his inner demons and battles. I also felt a lump of appreciation when Frodo explained to Sam that he saw good somewhere in the creature and wanted to help him return from his bondage to darkness. The scene where Frodo and Sam were asleep and Gollum/Smeigel (sp? What was he, a Jewish Hobbit?) had a Tyler Durdan-like argument with his alternate side was nicely done. I love his child-like look of amazement when he successfully chased away his evil side (or so he/we thought). The trees' victory at the end was a unexpected thrill. I had thought earlier in the film that the trees would fight the orcs at Rohan(?) to save our heroes there, and I hadn't thought for a moment that they would attack Saruman directly.

There are a few things I am confused over, so maybe someone can help me on this. Forgive my ignorance on this, but I am a fairly new fan to this saga and like I said, have yet to read the books. Okay, here goes: In the first film, in Rivendale, there was Gimly of the dwarves, Legolas of the elves, Borimar of Gondor, and Strider/Aragorn of uh, where?

Was Legolas from Lothlorien or Rivendell? Gimly's people were from the mines of Moria, right? So based on what we saw in the mines in FOTR, were all of Gimly's people wiped out to extinction (other than him)? Borimar was son of the king of Gondor, right? His brother seemed to know nothing about Frodo the ring bearer and the fellowship to destroy the ring, other than Borimar being killed. Why was that? When Borimar and the others were summoned to Rivendell to discuss the ring and Saruman's goals, were there no one else with him to return to his city to report on the mission Borimar had undertaken? So far we have seen 2 cities of elves, one city of dead dwarves, and a city and a fortress of humans, but we have yet to meet Aragorn's people, Aragorn's city...or have we? Have they been mentioned already, or are we going to meet them for the first time in ROTK?

And for my next question, which will surely make me appear dim-witted and slow to say the least...why where there two towers, and what was the significance of them? I saw in one scene showing the landscape that there seemed to be a line connecting the two far apart towers. So to continue my dumb question...why were there 2 towers set apart? Why did Saruman live/plot/work so far from Sauron's kingdom, why weren't the two towers in the same location? Is Saruman the Darth Vader to Sauron's Emperor Palpatine? What does Saruman stand to gain by securing the ring for Sauron and giving Sauron all the power; and isn't Sauron concerned that Saruman will gain the ring and use it to destroy him and rule Middle Earth himself?

[The Prism]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And yes, I do know that I work for a Star Wars site, and I do know this is a Star Wars message board. However, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that LOTR holds material that is exponentially better than anything offered in the prequel trilogy.[/b][/quote]

AMEN! And that material is...um..what's it called?...oh yeah! CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!!

[The Prism]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Is Saruman the Darth Vader to Sauron's Emperor Palpatine?[/b][/quote]

Basically, yeah.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What does Saruman stand to gain by securing the ring for Sauron and giving Sauron all the power; and isn't Sauron concerned that Saruman will gain the ring and use it to destroy him and rule Middle Earth himself? [/b][/quote]

Saruman doesn't have anything to gain, but he's so currupted that he doesn't realize that, if Sauron were to take over, he'd destroy Saruman once he had no use for him.

Saruman CAN'T use the ring against Sauron! Noone can! It serves Sauron and him only.

[Seanakin]

Tov, according to the LOTROS, the Orthanc tower was built a LONG time earlier by someone else, and Saruman eventually wound up inhabiting it.

Also, after checking the map of Middle Earth, I realized how literal the idea was of all the action taking place between those two towers.

And BTW, when Gollum/Smeagol were chatting, I too was thinking "What in the name of Tyler Durden is going on?" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

And Rob, two words: RIGHT ON. I see these LOTR films as the Ents marching on the desolate wasteland of Eisengaard that symbolizes the ruin brought about to the promise that a new SW trilogy had held five years ago. I like to think of Lucas also running out to his balcony, peering down, and wondering what the F*** is going on.

God bless Peter Jackson.

[Rob]

Let me try and answer these questions style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

There are a few things I am confused over, so maybe someone can help me on this. Forgive my ignorance on this, but I am a fairly new fan to this saga and like I said, have yet to read the books. Okay, here goes: In the first film, in Rivendale, there was Gimly of the dwarves, Legolas of the elves, Borimar of Gondor, and Strider/Aragorn of uh, where?

Aragorn is from Gondor, and he is the decendent of Arathorn (sp), the man who took the blade and struck down Sauron during the last real union of elves and men. The sword that is in Rivendell in FOTR and the sword that Legolas hands him at Helm's Deep is the sword that cut off the ring from Sauron's hands.


Was Legolas from Lothlorien or Rivendell?

Rivendell.

Gimly's people were from the mines of Moria, right?

Dwarfs are from all over. Balin (from the Hobbit) was a relative of Gimli who met his death in the mines of Moria.

So based on what we saw in the mines in FOTR, were all of Gimly's people wiped out to extinction (other than him)? Borimar was son of the king of Gondor, right? Of the current King yes. So is Faramir.

His brother seemed to know nothing about Frodo the ring bearer and the fellowship to destroy the ring, other than Borimar being killed. Why was that?

This is explained better in the book.

When Borimar and the others were summoned to Rivendell to discuss the ring and Saruman's goals, were there no one else with him to return to his city to report on the mission Borimar had undertaken?

Nope. If everyone knew then they would try and hunt down the ringbearer and take the ring for use.

So far we have seen 2 cities of elves, one city of dead dwarves, and a city and a fortress of humans, but we have yet to meet Aragorn's people, Aragorn's city...or have we?

Yes we have. That's why Boramir treats Aragorn so stinky.

We have also seen more than you think.

Have they been mentioned already, or are we going to meet them for the first time in ROTK?

You've already met them in essense. But once we get to Gondor then you'll meet them in ernest.

And for my next question, which will surely make me appear dim-witted and slow to say the least...why where there two towers, and what was the significance of them? Saruman's tower and Sauron's towers.

I saw in one scene showing the landscape that there seemed to be a line connecting the two far apart towers. So to continue my dumb question...why were there 2 towers set apart?

Just the way it was set up.


Why did Saruman live/plot/work so far from Sauron's kingdom, why weren't the two towers in the same location? Again, built for different reasons, they're connected via that Panthonir (sp) (seeing globe, crystal ball). Saruman fell to Sauron and gave in. Saruman was once a good wizard, a wizard in charge of the order in Middle Earth.


Is Saruman the Darth Vader to Sauron's Emperor Palpatine?

Somewhat yes.

What does Saruman stand to gain by securing the ring for Sauron and giving Sauron all the power; and isn't Sauron concerned that Saruman will gain the ring and use it to destroy him and rule Middle Earth himself?

I don't think that Sauron thinks that Saruman can actually obtain the ring. He's being used for manpower and destruction. Sauron would get the ring well before Saruman could ever touch it.


More questions?

[Darth Vegas]

Well they are already hailing it the best picture of the year, and Peter Jackson best director.

I agree.

What a fantastic film, I must admit, it took a second time with virtually no yelling and chearing to appreciate it as much as The Fellowship of the Ring, and I'm sure I'll like it more when I see it again tonight.

Yer all gonna shot me for this, but I like how they left Shelob's lair for the beginning of ROTK, made me want to see the next one even more. I think it was a smart decision to do it like that. Now we all anticipate the final chapter even more.

On a side note, Nacho Mamma, Legolas is a Wood Elf of the forest, he is from the Elven Kingdom of Mirkwood not Rivendell.

Also, Boromir and Faramir were the sons of the Steward of Gondor, they all feel that Gondor does not need a King, and when Boromir died, he vowed that if he had lived on, he would've followed his King Aragorn.

Also on Saruman, his treachoury is deeper than just joining with Saruman. In other Tolkien lore, we learn that all along he was making his own Ring of Power, when the Ents broke down the damn, and the waters fell on Isengard washing out the caverns, Saruman's hope for overthrowing Sauron was defeated.

In that sense, he even more like Vader, actually, Vader more like Saruman.

On The Two Towers. Isengard was built by the Numenoreans, of which Aragorn is the last of their bloodline. Orthanc, one of the Two Towers, was built out of unbreakable rock. After the third age and the last war with Sauron, the Istari (that is the wizards) were sent to guide and aid the people of Middle Earth.

Curunir (that is Elvish for Saruman) and Mithrandir (that is Gandalf) were those of the Istari order sent to Middle-Earth, along with some others. Saruman was chosen by the Elf Lords to be the head counselor, they called him the white, and Gandalf they called the grey.

Saruman in his pride (for he knew of the devices of Sauron) took himself to Isengard, to the Tower of Orthanc, where he hid himself from the council of all others but himself.

Barad-Dur is the Fortress of Sauon, in Mordor, the Land of Shadow. In the Fellowship of the Ring we first here of the union between Orthanc and Barad-Dur from Saruman who has been using a Palantiri, "The power of Isengard is at your command Sauron Lord of the Earth."

With Saruman building his armies and attacking from the north east at Orthanc, and Sauron gathering and building his armies, and attacking from north east at Barad-Dur, Gondor, Arnor, Rohan, and all of the Kingdom's of men have no way of avoiding the war.

The union is a very strategic union.

[The Prism]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Aragorn is from Gondor, and he is the decendent of Arathorn (sp), the man who took the blade and struck down Sauron during the last real union of elves and men.[/b][/quote]

No, that was Isildur. Aragorn is the son of Arathorn, who is a decendant of Isildur, and therefore makes Aragorn the heir to the throne of Gondor.

[Seanakin]

Also, while Aragorn is the son of Arathorn, while it was Isildur who defeated Sauron at Mt. Doom. Aragorn is the heir to Isildur's claim to the throne of Gondor, in whose absence the Stewards have ruled over the people for quite some time. It was because of this absence of a true King that people like Boromir spat that bit about Gondor needing no king.

Even though Tolkien himself has stated that this tale should not be inferred as an allegory to actual events like, say, WWII, I still can't help but wonder whom Saruman would represent. I used to think either Neville Chamberlain or Vidkun Quisling, although this Wormtongue fellow makes a better Quisling, in that he holds illegitimate power over Rohan while those loyal to the true king are forced to live in exile.

[Rob]

Ah!

We need to hid this thread before the real Tolkienites find it and burn us for inconsistent knowledge style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

I wasn't even thinking that Legolas was from Mirkwood, I had almost completely forgotten about it since I didn't teach the Hobbit this year.

Regardless of my inconsistent and incorrect answers to the questions above one thing does remain clear - that the Peter Jackson trilogy for LOTR makes the prequel trilogy look like s.h.i.t.

[Lonesabre]

Well Ive got my tickets booked for Monday night, theres 9 of us going, should be excellent!

A quick question, does Peter Jackson intend to release a 2 disc dvd for TTT and then another 4 disc directors cut? I hope so because I have the FOTR 4 disc and would be gutted if there is no TTT 4 disc to go with it! Early days but does anyone know?

[The Prism]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Regardless of my inconsistent and incorrect answers to the questions above one thing does remain clear - that the Peter Jackson trilogy for LOTR makes the prequel trilogy look like s.h.i.t. [/b][/quote]

Again, AMEN TO THAT!!

[Seanakin]

Rob: God forbid I ever get confused for one of them rabid Tolkienistas, especially since I once went out with one.

*convulses*

This is just a guess, Lonesaber, but I expect AOL/Time Warner/FBI/CIA/SBD/Sacco and Vanzetti/LSMFT to overhype and mass-market TTT to death with the same fervor they had this last time. That is to say, expect more of the same.

[Brian]

I really enjoyed Gimli's humorous banter. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[The Prism]

Originally posted by O-B-GATES@Dec 20 2002, 05:26 PM
I really enjoyed Gimli's humorous banter. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif
Yes, that was good.

"YOU COULD'VE PICKED A BETTER SPOT!!" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Seanakin]

At first I thought the movie might have been oversaturated by the comic zingers and such, much unlike the first one, which really picked its spots. (And well at that, especially when they deliberately ruined a perfect crescendo wave by having Pippin say "Great....where are we going?" It still cracks me up the way they put all that together.)

Then, the more I thought of it, I realized that if they hadn't, the movie would've been one gigantic downer, since the storyline is devoid of many joyous sequences, unlike FotR, of which there were many. (The Shire, Rivendell, and Lorien primarily.) It gave the audience a break from the gloomy parts. This time, it's all gloomy, thus the sprinkling of irreverence.

Besides, I take it as a sign that these guys aren't taking this whole thing too seriously, which I can always appreciate. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@Dec 20 2002, 10:56 AM
A quick question, does Peter Jackson intend to release a 2 disc dvd for TTT and then another 4 disc directors cut? I hope so because I have the FOTR 4 disc and would be gutted if there is no TTT 4 disc to go with it! Early days but does anyone know?
Yes I do believe so, in a few Two Towers books, and in the commercials and trailers, there were several pics ad clips from scenes that were cut from the film. Such as a scene where we see just how Smeagol obtained the Ring.

An extended TTT dvd is almost an assurance to happen.

[STar war spUNK]

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">THAT WAS THE MOST AWESOME MOVIE I'VE EVER SEEN</span>

[STar war spUNK]

i just came home... and i loved it. wow. and legolas is so hot omg... hahaha. i can't help it. it was so great! it reminded me a lot like episode two... a whole lot. like the whole clone army and junk. that was great. it was so great. i really really really liked it. it is now officially tied with star wars for best movie. wow. i'm going again next week!

[Javen]

Originally posted by Nacho Mamma@Dec 19 2002, 09:40 PM
First off. If you think that the Lord of the Rings trilogy is just a collection of three movies go get a gun and shoot yourself for being an illiterate idiot. Read the books first. Then see the film. Or see the film and read the books for what your missing.

I haven't been living under a rock you know, I am reading Return Of the King now. Then I will read Fellowship, TTT and the other books.

[Darth Vegas]

I suggest the Silmarillion Javen, it was the first book of Tolkien's, it's my personnal favorite, especially the last story in the end about the Rings of Power and the Last Alliance. It talks about the return of Sauron's spirit in Mirkwood, also has a brief summary of The Lord of the Rings at the very end.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Regardless of my inconsistent and incorrect answers to the questions above one thing does remain clear - that the Peter Jackson trilogy for LOTR makes the prequel trilogy look like s.h.i.t.[/b][/quote]

Hey at least you're clear on something!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Rob]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Dec 21 2002, 12:24 AM
I suggest the Silmarillion Javen, it was the first book of Tolkien's, it's my personnal favorite, especially the last story in the end about the Rings of Power and the Last Alliance. It talks about the return of Sauron's spirit in Mirkwood, also has a brief summary of The Lord of the Rings at the very end.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Regardless of my inconsistent and incorrect answers to the questions above one thing does remain clear - that the Peter Jackson trilogy for LOTR makes the prequel trilogy look like s.h.i.t.

Hey at least you're clear on something!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/b][/quote]
You know. It's quite difficult not to write a post on JediNet.com stating that LOTR has basically slammed the prequels.

I'm sorry. As big of a fan of Star Wars that I am, I have to keep making that statement, or something similar to it. I showed FOTR to the kids this week (5 classes), so I watched it 5 times, and its on cable now (and I'm still watching it).

I've stated this before, but I've got to say it again: When the Episode II DVD came out, I attempted to watch it, but I couldn't. It was putting me to sleep, even in the action sequences. However, the same night I watched the extended edition of FOTR and didn't nod off one bit through the entire film.

I'm not sure exactly what it is about being able to watch Jackson's rendition of Tolkien, but it sure in the hell is better than Lucas' rendition of life before Luke Skywalker.

[JediBendu]

difference is that's it Lucas' rendition of his own work, not someone elses.
...well
ok I'll shut up style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

Jackson's a nutter! You just have to watch Meet the Feebles to see why style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
But I don't think the comparison with Lucas is fair - Lucas and Tolkien created similar mythologicaly based stories, published in the popular media of the time.
Jackson is using the media (damn effectively) to recreate the same story - it's themes are well known, it has an already established fan base, and the supporting Middle Earth lore puts the EU to shame.

don't get me wrong, Jackson's the only film maker on the planet with the balls to pull it off, but give GL a little credit - he did the same thing 30 years ago.

[Siamese Sith]

GL & co.<span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%">"WE'RE DOOMED!"</span>
It kills me to admit this but Peter Jackson has dethroned Starwars. TTT was everything I imagined as a little boy when I read the book (along w/ the other two)! Clone troopers were cool but the URAK HAI are more tangible....I can't explain it any other way than you can't replace REAL with CG it loses something. If you put Aragorn up against Anakin I choose Aragorn, Legolas against Obi Wan I choose Legolas! But I'd still take Vader over Saruman or Sauron so there's still hope...
My girlfriend even wanted to see it and she made it thru with out one sneer!
It pains me to say this but the force is with Peter Jackson.

[Seanakin]

You're absolutely right, JB...GL's ability to pull off the OT required muchos cajones in the existing Hollywood at the time. BUT....that was 30 years ago. It's rather evident that PJ runs rings around GL in knowing the right time to impose his will or allow for outside creative input. (E.g. the TRIO of FotR screenwriters. Hey George, Harrison Ford tried to tell you about this back at the beginning.)

But yeah, the comparion isn't always a fair one. Baseball fans might liken it to a comparison between Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron.

[Javen]

Yeah I don't know about that, I mean LOTR is awsome, but I also love Star Wars to.

Oh, and check this article out with Christopher Lee, he says that he has been privileged to work with 3 of the greatest directors and he mentions 2 that we might just know...Christopher Lee Article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,581-518106,00.html)

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah I heard that Javen, on theExtended dvd.

Christopher Lee said that his greatest experience working on film, as far as the unity and friendship between the cast and crew, was LOTR, and Star Wars was second.

[Whisper]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>There are a few things I am confused over, so maybe someone can help me on this. Forgive my ignorance on this, but I am a fairly new fan to this saga and like I said, have yet to read the books. Okay, here goes: In the first film, in Rivendale, there was Gimly of the dwarves, Legolas of the elves, Borimar of Gondor, and Strider/Aragorn of uh, where?[/b][/quote] Aragorn son of Arathorn is from Gondor.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Was Legolas from Lothlorien or Rivendell? [/b][/quote] He's not from Rivendell, he's the son of the King of Mirkwood

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Gimly's people were from the mines of Moria, right? So based on what we saw in the mines in FOTR, were all of Gimly's people wiped out to extinction (other than him)?[/b][/quote]

Gimli son of Gloin is from the Lonely Mountain. He's the child of one the Dwarfs from the Hobbit, the prequel to LOTR. Balin, the Dwarf mentioned as the Moria master was also in The Hobbit. And Gimli and Balin were kin, but it was only Balin and his band of Dwarves that went to Moria, and were slaughtered.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Borimar was son of the king of Gondor, right? His brother seemed to know nothing about Frodo the ring bearer and the fellowship to destroy the ring, other than Borimar being killed. Why was that? When Borimar and the others were summoned to Rivendell to discuss the ring and Saruman's goals, were there no one else with him to return to his city to report on the mission Borimar had undertaken? So far we have seen 2 cities of elves, one city of dead dwarves, and a city and a fortress of humans, but we have yet to meet Aragorn's people, Aragorn's city...or have we? Have they been mentioned already, or are we going to meet them for the first time in ROTK?[/b][/quote]

Baromir, and Faramir are not the sons of the King of Gondor. They're the sons of the Steward of Gondor. At the moment Gondor has no king, as Aragorn is not there to have it. In fact, at this point he really doesn't want it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And for my next question, which will surely make me appear dim-witted and slow to say the least...why where there two towers, and what was the significance of them? I saw in one scene showing the landscape that there seemed to be a line connecting the two far apart towers. So to continue my dumb question...why were there 2 towers set apart? Why did Saruman live/plot/work so far from Sauron's kingdom, why weren't the two towers in the same location? Is Saruman the Darth Vader to Sauron's Emperor Palpatine? What does Saruman stand to gain by securing the ring for Sauron and giving Sauron all the power; and isn't Sauron concerned that Saruman will gain the ring and use it to destroy him and rule Middle Earth himself?[/b][/quote]

Saruman and Sauron were not always together. In fact originally Saruman strove to fight the Dark Lord Sauron. However, because of the palantir (that black orb thing Saruman used to converse with Sauron) Sauron was able to turn Saruman against Gandalf and the rest.

[Tovor]

Nacho Mama, thanks for the feedback. I know I have more questions (I was thinking of a few this morning on the way to work) but I'm at a blank at the moment.

Seanakin, Prism, Bond, Whisper, thanks guys. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Darth Vegas]

No probem Tovor.

Hey Whisper, you are a little off about Saruman, he never strove to fight Sauron, in fact, when Sauron's spirit infested Mirkwood, Saruman said it wasn't Sauron, it was Gandalf and the Elves that drove Sauron out of Mirkwood.

BTW, The Hobbit is not a prequel to The Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit came first actually, The Lord of the Rings is the continuation of the story of the Hobbits, so technically, LOTR is a sequel to The Hobbit, not the other way around.

The Hobbit was first published in 1937, The Fellowship of the Ring was not published until 1955, and the others followed.

[Rob]

Yeah. We should definitely try to not refer to the Hobbit as a prequel.

Here's the definition of prequel from the dictionary:

Prequel: Film which fails to live up to the standards of its predecessor, features bad actor as key role, and gets worse each time you watch it, or hear the main actor whine the word 'master'

[Darth Vegas]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Whisper]

According to the Appendices Saruman ORIGINALLY was with Gandalf and the other Istari in fighting Sauron.

Remember The Istari are VERY old. There were originally five, the leaders were Saruman (Curunir) and Gandalf (Mithrandir), Saruman being the elder of the two. It's never stated what happend to the other three.

Anyway, It's not until about a year before FOTR that Saruman gets taken over, sorta, by Sauron. (Appendix B, p410, heading, ~c3000)

Before that, he only wanted the One Ring for himself, NOT to give it to Sauron.

[JediBendu]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Prequel: Film which fails to live up to the standards of its predecessor, features bad actor as key role, and gets worse each time you watch it, or hear the main actor whine the word 'master' [/b][/quote]

:roll:

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah Whisper, he wanted to kill Sauron and take the Ring, his treason was much deeper than just joining with Sauron, if you have read the Silmarillion, it states that Saruman was against Gandalf concerning Sauron and Mirkwood, he apparantly thought it only to be the Nine.

You also read in the appendices that Saruman was keeping information from the White Council.

Also, somewhere in The History of Middle-Earth, it talks about how Saruman was all along, even as he was serving Sauron, making his own Ring of Power, he was planning to overthrow him.

Saruman went to the Tower of Orthanc where he resided aone, and and had no council but his own, he was very very arogant.

You see, his treason began long before Sauron tempted him.

[Whisper]

I read the Silmarillion a very long time ago...7th grade. Read The Hobbit in 5th, and half of FOTR in 5th. Heh, my 5th grade play was an adaptation of The Hobbit. I was supposed to play Gloin...but I worked my way into playing Orks, and being a stuntman style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

ahem...anyhoo.

When All the Istari first got to Middle Earth it was originally to help. However Saruman quuickly decided to take over, and that's why Cirdan gave Gandalf the....ummm thing he gave him (Not sure if it's s spoiler or not, so I won't say what it is style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif), instead of Saruman. He saw something in Saruman he didn't like. He always had a desire for power, but at first it was for good. Then it became his definition of good. THen he started keeping info from the Council, then damn near blatantly lieing (Case in point the Dol Guldur situation in 2850) about what he knew. At the counsel the next year he overruled any action against Dol Guldur, which in hindsight is because by THEN he desired the One Ring for himself. That's about 1000 years after the Istari arrived ( I know I read their arrival in the timeline somewhere, but be damned if I can find it style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif). This is still before The Hobbit, at this time he was not working for, or with Sauron. In a way, while his course wasn't altruistic, he was still fighting Sauron, by trying to keep the Ring from him. In fact looking at the timeline now, this is still before Bilbo is even born, 39 years to be exact. 149 years later is when Saruman is finally, erm, I guess seduced by Sauron, and another 18 years until that's a known fact.

When I said Saruman was with Gandalf in fighting Sauron, I never stated they were fighting him for the same reasons.

[Darth Vegas]

Uh it's not a spoiler, they gave him one of the Rings of Power for safe keeping. He wore it in a few scenes in The Fellowship of the Ring, most notably during his return to Bag End.

[QuigonWindu]

As some of you may know yesterday was Liv Tylers birthday.

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:silver"><font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=deeppink)'>HAPPY BIRTHDAY LIV</font></span></span>

[Vibroblade]

Watched the movie yesterday. Though I risk my massacre from those involved in the love the LOTR films fest, I'll be the first to say I felt the movie was a letdown. No where near as good as FOTR. Damn near fell asleep several times. Is it worth seeing? Of course, (IT'S LOTR BABY ) but I'd wait for the dollar showing.

IMHO TTT doesn't live up to the standard set by the FOTR. Jackson took way too many liberties with the story, the events were so jam packed together that I can't see how anyone who hasn't read the books could follow, and the sound design was below par. What I mean about the sound problem was that it was difficult to make out what was being said at times because of the score and the effects sounds. This didn't much affect me as I have read the book 7-8 times and had a fair idea what was being said. On the other hand, my wife and the other non-LOTR fans spent half the movie asking me what had just been said. Before someone says that I need to go to a better cinema, I was in a state of the art DTS cinema with excellent sound. It's just that the accents and the music/effects made it hard to understand many things, particularly treebeard and gollum.

I guess I now understand how the prequel bashers feel. I almost feel dirty for not thinking this is a very good movie. I'm a huge fan of LOTR and I certainly wanted to like the film, but felt it was way too long, too slow, too dull. Having said that there are some wonderful parts: Gollum definitely better than Jar-Jar ( better than CGI yoda? not so sure ). Loved the way his character was handled and the conflict within Gollom was portrayed masterfully. Loved the Ents. Loved the battle for Helms Deep.

[Whisper]

Yeah he wore t, but it was never specified what it was.

[Darth Vegas]

Well the spoiler, for some people, is what he does with the Ring, not that he has it.

[Darth Vegas]

Hey Vibroblade, the first time I saw it, I had the same problem, the second time, all of those problems ceased to exsist, you just have to give the film full attention, specifically whenever Treebeard is talking.

[Darth Whaler]

I really didn't want to start a whole new thread (or thumb through old ones) to ask this so I hope you guys don't mind me posting this here with other LOTR discussion.

I want to start reading the Lord of the Rings books but I don't know where to start. Do I begin with the Hobbit or with Fellowship of the Ring? Do I really need to read the Hobbit because I heard somewhere that it really didn't have much to do with the other books? I am completely lost on this. Any info would be great!

[Darth Vegas]

I personnally would suggest you read the books in chronological order, beginning with The Silmarillion if you have it, and if not, then The Hobbit. There are a few things discussed in The Lord of the Rings that are better understood if you read the other books first.

The Silmarillion details everything we need/want to know about Sauron, the creation of the Rings of Power, and the Alliance of Men and Elves, and the line of Kings.

The Hobbit introduces us to Gandalf, Bilbo, and Gollum. We see how Gandalf and Bilbo became friends, and exacty how Bilbo came upon the Ring in the tunnels of the Misty Mountains, in Gollum's cave.

[Darth Vegas]

BTW Whisper, Gandalf speaks of his ring in FOTR, on the Bridge of Kazad-Dum:

"I am a servant of the secret fire, weilder of The Flame of Anor! The Dark Fire will not avail you flame of Udun!"

The Ring of Power that Gandalf has for safe keeping, is the Ring of Fire.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Dec 23 2002, 08:25 AM
"I am a servant of the secret fire, weilder of The Flame of Anor! The Dark Fire will not avail you flame of Udun!"

I saw TTT this weekend with my girlfriend, and it was lines similar to the one I've quoted that made her laugh her ass off. I could hardly blame her.

Don't get me wrong. I love LOTR, I read the books as a teenager and all - but I think a lot of this series is completely lost and/or wasted on the masses. For example, the scenes in which Gollum/Smeagol is conversing with himself are (in my opinion) actually very pathetic and sad. Here's this creature that's been warped by the One Ring. The audience, however, thought his pathos was hysterical. To me, that means they had no clue what the hell Gollum was supposed to represent. Did anyone else notice this?

Some of Gollum's scenes were meant to be funny, but not all of them - yet every scene was laughed at by the audience. I think that there was just too much material for Peter Jackson to cram into one film. Maybe this was a better series of movies to spread out into six films? I know there are three book, ergo three films... but to non-LOTR fans, this movie was downright cryptic. My girlfriend had no idea Liv Tyler was an elf. Or that elves are very nearly immortal. So the whole romance with Aragorn scene was lost on her.

Otherwise, I liked the film.

[Darth Whaler]

Thanks Bond! To be honest, I had never heard of the Silmarillion. I thought there was only three books, one being the Hobbit. Shows how much I know. Barnes and Noble here I come!

[Darth Vegas]

There alot more than that too, there is:The Adventures of Tom Bombadil
Smith of Wooten Major
Farmer Giles of Ham
The Road goes ever on
Leaf by Niggle
The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Pearl and Sir Orfeo)The Father Christmas Letters
Unfinised Tales
Finn and Hingest
Mr. Bliss
Roverandom
The History of Middle-Earth (a 12 volume set!!!)Most of those are nearly impossible to find, though I always keep an eye out. The History of Middle-Earth set is a must have for me.
_____________________________________________

Hey Krogener, I realize too that the audience tended to laugh at Gollum inappropriately, but there was no way they could have seperated any of the books into two parts without adding and changing and ultimeatel ruining Tolkien's saga. Each book has a definite beginning and end (even though it actually one whole book), I as a fan, even though it could have been an oppurtunity to see alot of little things from the books, wouldn't have enjoyed that.

In the beginning Miramax had the deal to produce the films, but they were going to cram it all into two! Jackson took it to New Line, and the first thing they did was demand three films, and a wise choice it was, it wouldn't have been as good, or as successful, in any other form, IMO.

[Aurra Sing]

I was very pleased with this film. More so than AOTC, ::ducks:: Don't shoot me! I am a fan of the LOTR and I had to see it opening day, and of course I went a second time this weekend.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/inlove.gif

It was a well job done and very exciting. I cannot wait for ROTK!

[Bandet]

ive said it before LOTR TT was ok but its ending did not keep me interested in knowing whats going to happen. Part 1 was better it left me wondering what was going to happen.

[Mann]

How come? I loved the ending for this one.

Spoiler:
"The Battle for Helm's Deep is over, The Battle for Middle earth is about to Begin!"

[Javen]

Someone mentioned on this thread about that they didn't put the fight with Frodo and the spiders in TTT.

I just read an article with Peter Jackson of the reason behind it and that it will be in the next film. Here is a link to the article if anyone would like to read it.Peter Jackson interview. (http://http://www.greencine.com/article?action=view&articleID=62&pageID=104&)

[Senator Theant]

I must admit. I like the Two Towers Film much more than I did AOTC. Buts thats wholly unfair as a comparison, one of the stories has weathered the tide of criticism for 50 years while another is the work of a man started months before shooting (And Im talking about the actual storyline, the dialogue and everything).

As for the visual effects and soundtrack, they too go to LOTR. There were 600 special effects scenes in TTT and many of them were simply awe-inspiring. SW shot every scene in blue screen yet lost their pinache after a second viewing. Ive seen LOTR four times already and I cant get enough of it.

THe soundtrack? John Williams revolutionized the soundtrack industry when he stepped on to the scene with ANH and Indiana Jones. His rendered conventional style continues to amaze me but I ask myself: "what track has captured my imagination as did the Imperial March and the Star Wars theme?" Howard Shore is a shot in the arm, so to say, with varying combinations of human chorus and instrumental.

As a series, SW is my favorite. But for film comparison, Jackson beats Lucas.


I agree with Krogenar and Agent Bond, Gollum's scenes seemed wasted. Many were laughing too loud to hear what he was saing. But then again, who wouldnt laugh:

"Master's my friend"

"<span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%">YOU DONT HAVE ANY FRIENDS!!!!!!</span>"

I too found that scene pitiful and sad. And especially since its Gollum's obsession that will BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH in the end (get my meaning, readers?).

As for an alternate ending, it would have been far more suspenseful (and I little bit more time consuming) to have Gandalf race off to Gondor like in the book. Im not sure how that would work out in terms of plotting the story along a 3 hour timeline, but I would have stayed in my seat for another 30 minutes to watch a quick exchange between Saruman and Gandalf, Pippin's pivotal folly, and a jetison by Gandalf and Pippin. That would have left audiences with a hunger for more LOTR like an army of blood thirsty Uruk Hai. But of course, thats my opinion.

[QuigonWindu]

I loved that movie. It was the best movie so far this millenium. Legolas was awesome, he was "messing" up them orcs. I like Treebeard and the other trees too. I think Gollum was great, they did great with the cgi and the voice, the split personality. He was one of the best parts of the movie.

[Mann]

correction: Gollum WAS the best part of the movie. Then the battle at Helms Deep

[Aurra Sing]

Gollum was a hell of a lot better than Jar Jar.

[JediKeri.]

Hehe, my favorite line was "Don't tell the Elf"

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@Dec 27 2002, 05:38 PM
correction: Gollum WAS the best part of the movie. Then the battle at Helms Deep
I have to disagree with you there, the very best scene in TTT, and also the most beautful, epic, and most powerful scene I have ever seen on film bar none is:

Gandalf on Shadowfax, leading the Rohirrim down the mountain into Helm's Deep, what a magnifiscent spectacle to behold.

It's almost exactly what one would imagine what it would be like to see Jesus, as written n the Book of Revelations, to be coming down from heaven, clothed in white robes, and on a pure white horse, and with his angels headed into battle.

It was a very powerful scene.

The greatest thing about The Lord of the Rings, is how different it is from most fantasy, the good guys are not always certainly going to win, in fact, what we hear from our heroes all the time throughout the saga, is tht they are courageous enough to fight aginst evil, even though in their hearts they have no courage, they fight courageously, yet thy doubt. Even children had to fight in the battle, they were hopeless.

At the end of TTT we see Aragorn and Theoden, one a great King, one destined to become the King of Arnor and Gondor, and they both are riding out to die in the glory of battle, and at just the right moment Gandalf arives 2000 men on horse behind him. Seeing that after everything else we saw of Helm's Deep, was just awesome.

[Rogue_0009]

<span style="color:silver">I particularly liked the group dynamic between Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn [sorta odd couple meets three musketeers,] They did a great job of taking the humor that Tolkein tried to put in the book and putting it on the screen.</span>

[Aurra Sing]

I agree, they pulled the humour off when AOTC didn't do so hot.

[Mann]

The scene coming down the mountain was incredible. It was just brilliant scene. However, a much as I love it, and consider it one of the best cinematic shots of all time, I have to say that I would have like to see more fighting. especially Gandalf. But hey, They can only go so far on Screen. await the DVD version which is longer!

But come on, Gollum was sensational! He looed so real and had the most charm in the film, even if he was evil at the end.

[JediKeri.]

I felt sorry for Gollum

[Aurra Sing]

"You stupid fat hobbit!"-Gollum

[Javen]

I agree JediKeri, I did laugh a little in a few spots but I mostly was listening to him and I felt sorry for him and didn't know to trust him or not. To me they did a good job bringing his emotion out. So I didn't see him as just a funny kind of character, but a disturbed one.

[Aurra Sing]

Indeed Javen. He was mighty disturbed.

[Senator Theant]

Wow! Very well said, Agent Bond. I agree. That is probably the best scene in the movie.

I can't help but love the scene of the marching Ents toward Isengard.

"We know we probably march to our doom"

Throughout the entire movie (or so it seemed) the Ents were undecided and reluctant about going to war. But, after seeing that fires of Isengard had already reached their home, the Ents made the fateful decision. Combined with the masterful music, that scene depicts the meaning that everyone, far and wide, must make a decision at the hour of judgement.

Hey Mann . . . I agree that after Gandalf's heroic return, there was little to suggest that Saruman's army was ultmately decimated, as it is said in the book. I guess that was when Jackson really felt the pressure of the time crunch/blood-sucking New Line execs. I cant wait for the DVD's release.

I read online that Jackson and co are already planning to extend TROTK another 30 minutes, wow!

[The Prism]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Throughout the entire movie (or so it seemed) the Ents were undecided and reluctant about going to war. But, after seeing that fires of Isengard had already reached their home, the Ents made the fateful decision. Combined with the masterful music, that scene depicts the meaning that everyone, far and wide, must make a decision at the hour of judgement. [/b][/quote]

It's also a great illustration of Tolkien's appreciation of nature and hate for anything that abuses it. Industry and destruction came against the forest, and the forest faught back!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Mann]

Lord of the Rings tops the Box Office again

CNN.news

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- The "Lord of the Rings" sequel passed $200 million at the North American box office on Sunday, outpacing its hit predecessor, while Leonardo DiCaprio racked up two movies in the top five, led by his new release, "Catch Me If You Can," at No. 2.

With overall business boosted by the Christmas holiday, "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" was the first choice of moviegoers in its second weekend. The Hobbit sequel grossed $48.9 million for the December 27-29 period, according to estimates issued by its distributor, New Line Cinema.

After 12 days, the film has tallied $200.1 million. Its 2001 predecessor, "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" took an extra week to break that barrier. New Line is a unit of AOL Time Warner Inc. as is CNN.com.

"Catch Me If You Can," a crime caper directed by Steven Spielberg, ran off with $30 million during the weekend. Since opening on Christmas Day, it has tallied $48.6 million.

The true-life tale stars DiCaprio as a teenage con artist who scams millions of dollars while posing as an airline pilot, attorney and physician. The film was released by closely held DreamWorks SKG, in which Spielberg is a partner.

DiCaprio was also represented by "Gangs of New York," which slipped one notch to No. 5 in its second weekend with $11.2 million. The total for director Martin Scorsese's 19th century epic rose to $30.1 million. The $100 million film was released by Miramax Films, a unit of Walt Disney Co.

Miramax had less success with "Pinocchio," a live-action adaptation of the classic story from Italian writer-director-actor Roberto Benigni. It grossed just $1.1 million over the weekend, well out of the top 10. Miramax officials said they were disappointed, but expected the film to do better overseas and in home-video release.

Still, the studio's limited-release bow of the musical "Chicago" scored some melodious numbers. The film, which stars Catherine Zeta-Jones, Renee Zellweger and Richard Gere, earned $2.1 million from just 77 theaters. By contrast, "Pinocchio" was playing in 1,195 theaters. "Two Towers" and "Catch Me if You Can" were each in more than 3,100 theaters.

Two hit romantic comedies grabbed the Nos. 3 & 4 slots, each down one position from last weekend. "Two Weeks Notice" (Warner Bros.), starring Sandra Bullock and Hugh Grant, earned $16.1 million. The Jennifer Lopez vehicle "Maid in Manhattan" (Columbia) pulled in $13 million. Their respective totals rose to $43.6 million after two weekends, and $57.4 million after three weekends.

Warner Bros. Pictures is also a unit of AOL Time Warner. Columbia Pictures is a unit of Sony Corp.

The top 12 films grossed $157 million, according to box office tracking firm Exhibitor Relations -- up both 18 percent from last weekend and seven percent from the year-ago period.

[The Prism]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Miramax had less success with "Pinocchio," a live-action adaptation of the classic story from Italian writer-director-actor Roberto Benigni. It grossed just $1.1 million over the weekend, well out of the top 10.[/b][/quote]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif That doesn't surprise me! I'm sorry, but foreign dubs just look really REALLY bad!

[Brian]

I saw a commercial for TTT talking about Andy Serkis' performance as Gollum. Looks like New Line might be pushing Serkis for an Oscar bid after all.

[Darth Vegas]

Oh well they should, he deserves it.

[Justin]

He won't get it, because Gollum is digital. Even though his body language was mostly from motion-capture and his facial expressions were copied from an actor, the academy will NOT give an award to an actor who doesn't appear in flesh and blood on film.

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah but they should. It was an exceptional performance. Who know's they may yet, Andy Serkis is being nominated everywhere, Golden Globes, you name it.

They are really making a big deal about this.

[Justin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I have to disagree with you there, the very best scene in TTT, and also the most beautful, epic, and most powerful scene I have ever seen on film bar none is:

Gandalf on Shadowfax, leading the Rohirrim down the mountain into Helm's Deep, what a magnifiscent spectacle to behold.

It's almost exactly what one would imagine what it would be like to see Jesus, as written n the Book of Revelations, to be coming down from heaven, clothed in white robes, and on a pure white horse, and with his angels headed into battle.

It was a very powerful scene.[/b][/quote]

Oh please.

[Mann]

He's as close as Robin Williams was for Aladdin. the Golden Globes gave him a special award for that. Who knows, Andy Serkis does the best job for a CG character ever.

[Brian]

Originally posted by Justin@Jan 3 2003, 09:59 PM
He won't get it, because Gollum is digital. Even though his body language was mostly from motion-capture and his facial expressions were copied from an actor, the academy will NOT give an award to an actor who doesn't appear in flesh and blood on film.
Agreed. His performance was exceptional, but he won't get a nod IMHO. Had they showed some scenes when he stole the ring from his buddy and killed him when he was a hobbit, then I might think differently.

~OBG

[Darth Vegas]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>He won't get it, because Gollum is digital.[/b][/quote]

Why would that make so much of a difference? Beauty and the Beast won best picture 1991 at the Academy Awards.

[Mann]

no, Beauty and the Best didn't win best picture, it lost to Silence of the Lambs in 1991. Though, I agree it should have one. And no matter what, performances, digital or real, should be taken into account about how well they were done.

[Brian]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Jan 5 2003, 02:11 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>He won't get it, because Gollum is digital.

Why would that make so much of a difference? Beauty and the Beast won best picture 1993 at the Academy Awards.[/b][/quote]
Yeah, it was just nominated for best picture; the first time an animated feature was nominated for best picture. That won't happen again now that hey have the best animated feature category.

Anyway, even though Serkis did a good job with the voice and motion capture, the animators made Gollum look the way he did, i.e. the facial expressions, skin texture, and taking motion capture from computer to film and making it look realistic; the things that we actually saw on film. If anything, the animators should get the award for best visual effects (again). This is not making light of Serkis' performance, but let's give credit where credit is due.

~OBG

[Mann]

The credit is given to Serkis by the Animators. They said without him, they wouldn't have had nearly as much material to work with. He was the one who did all the major wrok, they took his movments and animated over them. Serkis was there on camera, there in the sound stage, and there in the animators stage. The animators did a good job with the detail, but Serkis diserves and got, the majority of the credit for Gollum.

[Lord Laviathan]

Very right Mann, Serkis didnt magnificantly with Gollum and I think he deserves it. But I dont know if he will since its the academy awards there so biest it hurts and usually nothing I care about ever wins, thats just the corruption of the oscars.

[Senator Theant]

I truly believe that LOTR deserves the Best Film award. That certainly seems to be the case as the Golden Globes are always a good prediction for the Oscars.






Dicaprio is to play the Alexander the Great. Oh man, and I thought Washington was being led astray . . .

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Mann@Jan 5 2003, 12:18 PM
they took his movments and animated over them.
No they didn't, it was entirely motion captured, Gollum was not animated. Everything movement Andy made, the cg model in the computer made. All that the animators did, was the face, and that's it. Even that was based entirely off of the actors perfrmance.

_____________________________

Show's how much I know about the Oscars, never have really been that much into them, but still, if they could nominate Beauty and the Beast ahem *1991, then yes they could and more than likely will nominate Andy Serkis for best supporting actor.

[spaceman2386]

Originally posted by Mann@Jan 5 2003, 01:18 PM
The credit is given to Serkis...
duh he is the voice and the actor. they wouldn't to a charactor.

[Brian]

There's more evidence that Serkis my get an Oscar nomination:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Jackson feels strongly that even though Gollum is a partly synthetic character, Serkis' contribution was considerable enough to merit an Oscar nomination.

"I do feel Andy's contribution and involvement in the performance of Gollum is as relevant as `The Elephant Man' performance that John Hurt gave," Jackson said. "John Hurt was beneath rubber that didn't look like him and had to manipulate that rubber to give a performance."[/b][/quote]

Source: Kansas City Star (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/4824439.htm)

[Brian]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/music.gif bump, bump, bump style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/music.gif

[Mann]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>No they didn't, it was entirely motion captured, Gollum was not animated. Everything movement Andy made, the cg model in the computer made. All that the animators did, was the face, and that's it. Even that was based entirely off of the actors perfrmance.
[/b][/quote]

There were motion capture moments, but Serkis also went on location to deliver some lines and such. moments like that were animated over.

[James]

It's a great film, based on a great story.

It's way longer than the first one, maybe a bit too long. I got a sore a$$ in the movies from sitting there so long

I loved the battle at the end, full of action and blood and stuff like that.

Gollum (Sméagol) is excellently done with the computer software stuff. There's lots of cool new charachters as well, my favourite of them being Faramir (Boromir's brother). OTher new caharacters are Théoden, Éowyn, Éomer, Gríma Wormtounge who was really cool

I liked the part towards the end when teh Ents (their the tree-men) attacked Saruman's tower and flooded all his Orc-making factories. He realised his plans were starting to go wrong and he was getting really worried.

One thing I didn't like was how Treebeard the ent was really hard to understand.

~James style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/xmas.gif

[James]

btw i liked Serkis's voice when he was doing Gollum-Sméagol that was cool

[spaceman2386]

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">JOIN The Council of Elrond (http://lordofmodor.conforums.com/)!!!!!! It's a site almost like this one but it's all about <span style="color:red">Lord of the Rings</span>!!!!!!!!</span>

[kopernikuz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Anyway, even though Serkis did a good job with the voice and motion capture, the animators made Gollum look the way he did, i.e. the facial expressions, skin texture, and taking motion capture from computer to film and making it look realistic; the things that we actually saw on film. If anything, the animators should get the award for best visual effects (again). This is not making light of Serkis' performance, but let's give credit where credit is due.[/b][/quote]

Chances are slim to none that the Academy will nominate him, though he absolutely should be nominated. The acting award doesn't go to the actor with the best skin texture and costume... it goes to the actor with the best performance. So the fact that his skin and costume are digital in NO WAY takes away from the fact that his performance was incredible! Even Entertainment Weekly in their Oscar picks mentions him as someone that SHOULD be a pick, though like me they don't believe that the Academy will do it.

From Entertainment Weekly:
<span style="color:blue">"We admit it: Even we're not sure what to do with ANDY SERKIS, the British actor whose every tic, twitch, and hiss brings Gollum to such brilliant life in ''The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers.'' There's no precedent for the way his work straddles the border that separates performance from visual effect. But about this we're certain: The Academy had better start thinking about the issues that Serkis' performance raises, because his work -- however it's categorized -- is Oscar-caliber."</span>


This is the first time that a digital actor has been entirely based on an actual performance really... even Jar Jar was just the dude walking around with a Jar Jar head on his own head occasionally so the actors would have a reference point. Jar Jar was entirely digital except for the voice. Yoda was patterned after the performance of a puppet in a different movie and in AOTC was an entirely digital performance. In this case, the digital Gollum is nothing more than a digital costume covering a completely human performance. If he'd been in a costume the Academy may have thought different, but it was digitally created.

It's a shame if he doesn't... but if the Golden Globes snubbed him, there's very little chance the Academy won't snub him too...

[Mann]

Ian McKellan was snubbed last year, and in the last week he became the frontrunner.

[Rojo]

The academy have a thing about fantasy films, generally they don't do well at the oscars.

That's why I think Two Towers won't win anything really prestigious (just like Fellowship didn't last year). Two Towers definately deserves some Oscars (McKellan and Serkis are great)but it won't get any from the biased academy.

[Mann]

I know Rojo, but times are changing. The first black actress last year could lead to fantasy films winning, who knows?

[Javen]

Originally posted by Rojo@Jan 12 2003, 05:03 PM
The academy have a thing about fantasy films, generally they don't do well at the oscars.

That's why I think Two Towers won't win anything really prestigious (just like Fellowship didn't last year). Two Towers definately deserves some Oscars (McKellan and Serkis are great)but it won't get any from the biased academy.
The academy also has a thing where they snub movies that people most went to see.Take Chicago for instance it has only made 15 million, yet its nominated blah!

[Mann]

15 million? already?? Javen, you underestimate a movie that is like a few hundred theatres. 15 million is just the beginning. Trust me.

But, the academy is divided into sections. The producers vote for best pic noms, director for director noms and so on. If you watch the guild awards, they detail who is most likely to win.

[Javen]

Yeah 15 million and it took 16 days! LOTR has made 279 million in 25 days.In the case of Chicago, in the MOvie 25th hour Edward Norton should win he just keeps getting better as an actor my own opinion of course.

[Mann]

LotR was released to 3500+ screens in those 16 days. Chicago started out in only 7 theatres and got 2.3 million in the first weekend.

I agree Edward Norton is brilliant. 25 hour sounds like a great performance.

[nerfer]

<span style="color:c1007e"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms">

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>This is the first time that a digital actor has been entirely based on an actual performance really... even Jar Jar was just the dude walking around with a Jar Jar head on his own head occasionally so the actors would have a reference point. Jar Jar was entirely digital except for the voice. Yoda was patterned after the performance of a puppet in a different movie and in AOTC was an entirely digital performance. In this case, the digital Gollum is nothing more than a digital costume covering a completely human performance. If he'd been in a costume the Academy may have thought different, but it was digitally created.
[/b][/quote]

Ahmed Best did walk around with the Jar Jar head on to provide reference points. BUT, he also provided MOTION CAPTURE for Jar Jar. Jar Jar's performance was not entirely digital. Love or hate the character he did set a standard for CGI characters. And his performance was also driven just as much by the human actor as it was by effects.

As for Yoda, CGI Yoda is every bit as good as GOLLUM if not better. I thought CGI Yoda was brilliant and set a very high standard for CGI characters. Just because his physical aspects and mannerisms were based off of a puppet, it doesn't make his perfomance any less valid.

Frank Oz created Yoda. When he was a puppet he pupperteered him and created his mannerisms and facial expressions. Frank Oz was that performance and thats the perfomance CGI Yoda was based on. Without Frank Oz there would be no Yoda. So to dismiss these characters out of hand would IMHO be wrong.</span></span>

[Mann]

Gollum is unique because he is the first to be made based on the expressions of an actor. Yoda was based on the puppet. jar jar was based on just animators making him grin. But Gollum was made over the expressions of Andy Serkis. you are looking at his face digitized. That is why it is unique.

[Lord Laviathan]

Originally posted by nerfer@Jan 13 2003, 10:52 PM
As for Yoda, CGI Yoda is every bit as good as GOLLUM if not better. I thought CGI Yoda was brilliant and set a very high standard for CGI characters. Just because his physical aspects and mannerisms were based off of a puppet, it doesn't make his perfomance any less valid.

Please, Yoda in no way can mount up to Gollum, Lucas should have stuck with a puppet Yoda, Gollum is the best digital characther Ive ever seen, he looks real and his performance perfect and you dont feel like hes fake like you do digital Yoda(it looked ok but nothing like the origina, thats why hes fake) or Jar jar.

[Brian]

Uh, oh! Sounds like a poll idea...

CGI Yoda vs. Jar Jar Binks vs. Gollum

[nerfer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Jar Jar Binks looks like something out of a bad Sci-Fi Fantasy movie[/b][/quote]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Please, Yoda in no way can mount up to Gollum, Lucas should have stuck with a puppet Yoda, Gollum is the best digital characther Ive ever seen, he looks real and his performance perfect and you dont feel like hes fake like you do digital Yoda(it looked ok but nothing like the original, thats why hes fake) or Jar jar. [/b][/quote]

<span style="color:c1007e"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms">

You go on about how great Gollum is. But without GL and Industrial Light and Magic constantly pushing the envelope on the kind of technology used to create Gollum. He wouldn't even have been possible. You may not like the character of Jar Jar. I myself have no love for him. But looks wise he is a fantastic CGI creation.

As for Gollum despite Serkis's his great performance he always looked cgi to me. For me Yoda was so great because I never once thought of him as a puppet or a cgi character I just thought of him as Yoda. Digital wise, apart from the fight scene with Dooku Yoda was FLAWLESS!!!!! In fact Industrial Light and Magic went into so much detail on Yoda that they realised he didn't look right when his voice was synchonised perfectly with that of the CGI Yoda. They realised that the dubbing on the Original Trilogy hadn't been dead on and that Yoda's voice didn't fit his lip movements perfectly. So they actually changed the dubbing on the character so that the lip synch wasn't perfect. To make sure he was as close to the original character.

And as I said before. As much as CGI Yoda was based on a puppet. He was also based off of a human performer. In Yoda's case the puppet was used to provide reference, but Frank Oz still puppeteered it and did the voice too. The facial mannerisms of Yoda aren't just something an animator made up. They are based off the performance of Frank Oz. When Yoda looks thoughtful, Frank Oz gave him that face. He gave a performance with which the animators worked with.

Lucas said way back when the original trilogy was made. That Frank Oz IS YODA, without him that character would not be.

I think your allowing your preference for Lord of the Rin