The Ultimate Edition [Archive] - The Galactic Senate

bodhisattva yoda

07-31-2002, 03:43 PM

i think the original ot and the ultimate edition would fair best on seperate discs. provided they release the ot in it's original form, i'd like to see an ultimate edition reworked tremendously for the sake of continuity with the prequels. all the battle scenes should be redone (the special edition death star attack doesn't work at all with the old and new footage). if nothing else, i really hope lucas cleans up the added special edition footage like the cloud city approach and the jabba scene which have cgi that just pales in comparison to the prequel cgi. ultimately, i'd rather have a pure trilogy than an ultimate edition, but if both are being offered, i think lucas should go to town on the ultimate version.

Rinc

07-31-2002, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Jedi Master Shaft@July 31 2002 - 10:55
I would correct all the "movie mistakes", make all the special effects better with the power of ILM, and I would add some scenes.
Some things would need to be changed but some mistakes need to be left in. For eg. the stormtrooper hitting his head - that is the best movie mistake i have ever seen.

Justin

07-31-2002, 11:28 PM

Greedo should never shoot, the scene with Jabba should be left out, the Sarlaacc should just be the open maw that it was before, the new musical number should be droppped, and most of all, that girly-ass scream needs to be taken out when Luke falls down the air shaft.

JediBendu

07-31-2002, 11:30 PM

There's alos the scene with Tarkin and Vader:

'She lied! She lied to us!'

'I told you she would not consciously betray the rebellion'

Then Vader starts gesticulating with his left arm as though is still talking but he's finished speaking.

Rinc

08-01-2002, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Justin@Aug. 01 2002 - 03:28
Greedo should never shoot, the scene with Jabba should be left out, the Sarlaacc should just be the open maw that it was before, the new musical number should be droppped, and most of all, that girly-ass scream needs to be taken out when Luke falls down the air shaft.
Agree with all of them apart from the extra Jabba scene. Jabba should just be improved to look more realistic. The girly-ass scream has always annoyed me.

bodhisattva yoda

08-02-2002, 12:57 PM

definitely should remove the screen.

about greedo shooting first, it doesn't really bother me. it makes sense in some ways. firstly, i don't think greedo was aiming to kill solo with that shot, just frighten him, as greedo seemed to be enjoying his little confrontation. when greedo fired, han, knowing that the blaster wasn't pointed directly at him, took the opportunity to fire back. han firing at someone aiming a blaster directly at him makes less sense, really.

Darth Whaler

08-02-2002, 01:45 PM

Just wondering...did GL ever explain HIS reason for changing the movie so that Greedo shot first? I've seen fan opinions but I've never heard if the man himself explained his reasons for such a change.

Justin

08-02-2002, 03:54 PM

He said it was because he wanted Han Solo to be more of a good guy, that shooting someone under the table isn't a very "good-guy"ish thing to do.

bodhisattva yoda

08-02-2002, 07:05 PM

um. when i said 'remove the screen' i meant scream. uh.

how about re-doing all the laser shots and improving the glow of the lightsabers? perhaps if they removed the original lasers and added new ones, they'd seem less random... maybe the stormtroopers might seem like better shots.. or something.

Queen 'Onna

08-02-2002, 11:10 PM

I would like to see more of the Emporer.

I would love to see the scene ware Leia kisses style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif :eek: Luke on ESB cut.that is soo gross.Nobody wants to see all that. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

JediBendu

08-02-2002, 11:18 PM

I've seen fan opinions but I've never heard if the man himself explained his reasons for such a change.

You probably won't like it, but GL just changed his mind. Apparently he had planned 3 different ways for the scene to unfold but never really decided on one. The Mos Eisley cantina scene was shot twice, at the start and very end of production - there may be a different sequence in the first (I can't remember - Myth Behind the Magic has got it, luuuvvv han with a bar slurry).
I think in the intervening 20 years between anh and spec eds, his conscious just got the better of him and he couldn't rationalise Han shooting first, effectively killing Greedo in cold blood, green or otherwise.
I, like a lot of fans, think it was a mistake but it's his film so he do whatever he likes with it. :saber:

Javen

08-02-2002, 11:29 PM

Replace the Ewoks with something believable that could take out the Stormtroopers.

LordTyranus

08-03-2002, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by Javen@Aug. 02 2002 - 22:29
Replace the Ewoks with something believable that could take out the Stormtroopers.
LOL, I wish! And I totally thought having Han shoot first totally set him up as a great scoundrel, every major character in Star Wars "evolves", I think part of Han's evolution was to have him start out as a scummy pirate who nobody cared for, but then gradually he became a worthy hero, leader, and all around beloved guy!

borgmatrix

08-04-2002, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by quigonwindu@July 29 2002 - 18:46
If you could change one thing in the OT for the ultimate DVD edition, what would you change.
I would re-film the unmasking of Vader in ROTJ with Hayden. We're going to see him as Anakin before he becomes Vader, so it would be great to see the same face when he's unmasked.

Does anyone know if there's a chance of this happening? It shouldn't be difficult to pull off, and would make more sense to me than having Natalie in ROTJ.

bodhisattva yoda

08-04-2002, 02:22 PM

others have said that hayden did sign a contract for five films, not just the two prequels. so possibly.

i've been informed that george will not allow the original version of the OT to be released. so now i'm not sure i want anything to be changed... although it was mentioned that there are dvd bootlegs floating around. i've gotta get my hands on one (three).

i do kind of hope that george replaces the empire strikes back actor of the emperor with ian mcwhatsit.

Spider

08-06-2002, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Justin@July 31 2002 - 22:28
Greedo should never shoot, the scene with Jabba should be left out, the Sarlaacc should just be the open maw that it was before......
My sentiments exactly.

Obi-Stu

08-07-2002, 08:27 AM

I would also like to see/hear more of the Emperor, esp in ANH, I Think with all the attention he gets in the PT's it would seem strange not to hear much of him.

Darth Whaler

08-07-2002, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by LordTyranus@Aug. 03 2002 - 02:22
And I totally thought having Han shoot first totally set him up as a great scoundrel, every major character in Star Wars "evolves", I think part of Han's evolution was to have him start out as a scummy pirate who nobody cared for, but then gradually he became a worthy hero, leader, and all around beloved guy!
My thoughts exactly! He didn't even want to save Leia until money was mentioned. We begin with the impression that this guy is a real jerk. Yet, in time, he wins our respect with his heroism and change of character.

I'd definitely want the original scene to return for the DVD (although after reading comments on this thread it doesn't seem like it's going to happen).

borgmatrix

08-08-2002, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Obi-Stu@Aug. 07 2002 - 07:27
I would also like to see/hear more of the Emperor, esp in ANH, I Think with all the attention he gets in the PT's it would seem strange not to hear much of him.
Yeah, that's true. Hopefully he'll be added to ANH somewhere.

droid-desease

08-10-2002, 07:27 PM

i don't know is this going to dissapoint some of you
but the "archival editions" or "ultimate editions"
or whatever you want to call them are
going to be just an extension of Special editions.

Lucas wanted to make a final edition of
ANH in 1997 but *20th-centuryFOX
convinced Lucas to make a spetial edition
fo all the original trilogy films and not just ANH..
so Lucas then went for it and since he
had to ad changes to all of the films
he had to rule out many additions he had planned for ANH.
He was planing to do so much more
but the deadline killed him again (just like in 1977)
and he had to forget all the changes he had planed
and release the films in 1997 half-finished.

So what we saw in cinemas in 1997
was just a part of the work planned for
final editions...and now Lucas will continue
his work and finish it for the DVD release.

That means that all the SE aditions
are going to stay because they are a part of a complete final editions work.

And one moe thing...

after the release of these films in
1997 Lucas made a small team
of guys at ILM and gave them a job
of finishing all the "ultimate edition"
work that was skeched out in
mid 90's...and they worked and worked
on these films whille Lucas was
shooting episode 1 and episode 2

in 1997 and 1998
they have done all those
big changes and *from 1999
to about 2001 they just fine-tuned
shots by removing those matte lines
and effect boxes...
so by now (2002) ALL THE WORK IS FINISHED
and now all they have to do is
insert new shots of anakin bail organa and
padme (some of these shots are allso done
whille making episode 2)
and when Lucas shoots all of them
Williams is going to ad imperial march
in ANH and add some more additions
and the work is finished and ready to hit
the screens.

Oh and i forgot to say that all the trilogy
films were digitized frame by frame
in ILM so they can last for ever and not
fade or deteriorate..
the scanning was done somewhere in 1999
or 2000.

All of the finished work is done
and is sitting somewhere in Lucasfilm
in the dark on some digital data tapes
or computer servers and
is waiting for 2006 or 2007.

So you can all forget about Han shooting first
or any other SE additions beeing removed
in final editions because
special editions ARE the first phase of
final editions

if someone is thinking i am
making all this up i can proove
it all..there is an article on the net
wrokte in 1999 with quotes
from an ILM artist that has been
working on Vader/Oby-wan fight
AFTER the release of SE in 1997,
he has been asigned for those
lighsabres we all hate in ANH
and the oby-wans death shot

RollaFett

08-10-2002, 07:34 PM

borgmatrix Posted on Aug. 04 2002 - 00:39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (quigonwindu @ July 29 2002 - 18:46)
If you could change one thing in the OT for the ultimate DVD edition, what would you change.

I would re-film the unmasking of Vader in ROTJ with Hayden. We're going to see him as Anakin before he becomes Vader, so it would be great to see the same face when he's unmasked.

Does anyone know if there's a chance of this happening? It shouldn't be difficult to pull off, and would make more sense to me than having Natalie in ROTJ.

It sure would make more sense than Padme suddenly showing up. You've been on the 'Padme is Mon Mothma' thread, haven't you?
Back to Hayden replacing Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ...I really think that they could do that. Although I haven't watched ROTJ lately, I believe that all of the shots where you see his face were cutaways, meaning that they could very easily be reshot and inserted. That is one change I would very much like to see.
Han shooting first is an obvious one, but still a good one.

Javen Posted on Aug. 02 2002 - 22:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Replace the Ewoks with something believable that could take out the Stormtroopers

LOL! Check out this GL quote from the Annotated screenplays:

"The Wookiee planet that I created for Satr Wars was eventually turned into the Ewok planet in Jedi. I basically cut the Wookiees in half and called the Ewoks! I didn't make Endor a Wookiee planet because Chewbacca was sophisticated technologically and I wanted the characters in the battle to be primitive. That's why I used Ewoks instead."

ARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! That :censored: just burns me up! Even if you agree with his reasoning for not using Wookiees, couldn't he have come up with something better than those damn walking teddy bears?! :banghead:

droid-desease

08-10-2002, 08:01 PM

Padme is not going to suddenly show up in ROTJ..as i said on another topic before she is going to be a hologram recording in a new scene featuring Vader looking at an old hologram of padme.

Lonesabre

08-11-2002, 06:44 AM

Replace the Ewoks with something believable that could take out the Stormtroopers.

Apparently the Yuzzum from the ROTJ:SE {Jedi Rocks scene} was originally developed back in 1982 to be a counter species to the Ewoks on Endor.

However with there intricate design it was too difficult for them to be animated with 1980's technology so they were left out.

According to rumour, you can see the original model for the Yuzzum in the background of Jabbas Palace.

So they could be 'put back in' maybe???

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif :saber:

droid-desease

08-11-2002, 08:24 AM

and yuzzum is a species that lives on endor.

But they won't be put into the film
because there will be no plot changes
in the film.
We will se changes like those
we saw in SE.
New effects,new shots and
some new shots what tie all the films together

Mann

08-11-2002, 02:41 PM

An idea for ANH is that the Emperor and Vader have a conversation on the Death Star that consists of Vader saying that Obi-Wan is dead and that he feels something else in the force (luke).

droid-desease

08-11-2002, 07:18 PM

here is my list of wishes:

for the final edition release of the films i want:

All the original negatives to be restored once again,
to be put i a chemical bath and cleaned once again
and then to put them through those new processes that
restore color back to faded films
(restoration for SE did not fix faded colors because
there was no way of doing that back in 1996)
not they have invented ways of doing that so i want them to restore colors back to trilogy films ,specially the ANH.
ANd i want them to put all th enegatives in a cold film vault
(about 0 degrees celsius) so they can last about
200 years or more without ANY fading (that is posible,
and the negatives faded because back in 1977 guys at Lucasfilm were not alarmed by the fading problem and they
didn't store these filsm properly.

ANd i don't want them to digitize all the negatives
to a computer server for archiving because they would do it at a resolution to low (that low resolution ILM works with is the cause of episode 1 having such a bad image quallity)

I want rancor to be improoved...but not at all the shots,
only at those bad ones..some rancor shots look just
fine and only need some cleaning up (film dirt and all)

I want them to add more motion blur to the tauntauns
so the walk smoother and dont look like stop-motion figures
(fake looking)

I want ALL the space shots plates and ship bluescreen footage to be scanned in a computer at a high resolution nad recomposited thus removing matte lines and effect boxes
and so the models look brighter and with more color while in space...if this is done correctly all the space scenes
would stand up to todays FX standards.
And i want some of the effect scenes in space to be replaced
by CG shots..i wont name them all now but most of them
are in ROTJ.

I want a new CG or miniature shot of super star destroyer
hiting the death star II in ROTJ.

I want less changes to the existing scenes (if any)
and more new scenes (but short ones)

I want no changes in music score exept only
on one or two places where john would add
imperial march in ANH (but only like i said one or to places)

I want all the lightsabre shots to be fixed
by fingind the original scene negatives and
scanning them at 4K resolution and adding new
digital lightsabres maching the quallity of lightsabres
in AOTC.

Hmmm...

I want all the original dialog recording audio tapes to be find
and digitized and cleaned on a dehisser and make them
more charp sounding like in ESB ( i meant this for ANH)

i want more surround sound effects in all the films
and subwoofer effects booste and improoved so
they sound like the ones in AOTC.

I want some new shots to appear in all the films
what were cut out long time ago
(alternate angles or something)
and i want some of the cutscenes to hit the silver screen
for the firs time in history (like the sandstorm scene)

huh that is a long and detailed list..i think i will stop now,
this is about all of the things i want..

and of course most of them won't be realised
in 2006 :unhappy:

but i'll settle for anything as long as they
DON'T touch the desert-jawa-sandcrawler
sequences
and the hoth battle in ESB

Lonesabre

08-12-2002, 04:46 PM

I definately think that Biggs scenes should be added to the start of ANH, as well as all footage of Luke. Originally Lucas wanted the droids to take the story forward and delivery the plot to Luke and so on and so forth...

Now, because after Ep III we will know everything anyway there is no need for this so inserting the missing Tattooine scenes would not effect the story telling.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/censored.gif

droid-desease

08-12-2002, 05:11 PM

Lucas always looks at his movies individually
AND as a part of a saga..so he wants
his movies to fit well in a larger story
and he wants all of them to work on their own
too.
So i doubt that is going to ever happen...
because the biggs scenes ,as perfect and beautiflul as they are,distroy the gradation of story in
the first reel of ANH

Pepper

08-19-2002, 01:19 AM

I can understand why you guys would want so many changes made, like upgrading the old visual effects, but really you want a re-make of these beloved old films.

For me the SE's were a mixed bag, and overall a disappointment. *When I saw that they were going to do a special edition I thought they were going to do *good* things to the movies, like fixing some of the effects goofs. *But no, instead they go in and make utterly STUPID changes like Greedo shooting first; Luke screaming as he falls; and that lame musical number in ROTJ. *Sure, I liked stuff like the new ending in ROTJ, and the improved effects in the DS battle in ANH, but they really didn't need to do that.

I grew up with the original versions of the films. *In fact I remember the good ol' days in the late 70's when there was only ANH, and we just called it "Star Wars". *Those for me were the best times as a SW fan. *Then came ESB and blew us all away again. *But now you guys are calling for practically a complete remake of the films I love more than any other. *I hope they keep all the stop-motion AT-ATs and Tauntauns, and many of the old-school effects. *Those are part of their charm. *If they add stuff to them, they should *not* add prequel stuff. *They should maybe add some deleted scenes like they did for the SE's, and not new prequel-related stuff.

Sure, these are Lucas's movies and he can (and does) do what he wants, but I sure hope he doesn't go butchering them further.

MastaKilla

08-19-2002, 10:14 PM

I qould like to see the Emporer crush the last of the Democrates and more of what has happend to the jedi

Lonesabre

08-20-2002, 02:15 PM

Id like to see Chewie finally get his medal at the end of ANH!!!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Mann

08-20-2002, 04:51 PM

Well, Chewie didn't do much to help Luke. And where was Wedge's metal for surviving? All the survivors should have gotten something.

Clara

08-21-2002, 12:59 AM

They did. In EU, Wedge spoke of his medal. Its just that he didn't recieve it in ANH

Jedi Master Shaft

08-22-2002, 01:23 PM

I'd like to see a feature on the Ultimate Edition DVDs that could allow the viewer to add subtitles for Chewbacca, R2-D2, Nien Numb and all these kinds of characters. Fun subtitles, of course...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tie.gif

Darth Opinionated

09-11-2002, 12:55 PM

As far as seeing the Emporer in ANH, I'd like to see Vader take his tie to Coruscant (that's where he went), and meet the Emporer, it should be very similar to the scene at the end of AOTC with Tyrannus meeting Sidious on Coruscant, that would be nice. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

Darth Opinionated

09-11-2002, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by droid-desease@Aug 10 2002, 10:27 PM
if someone is thinking i am
making all this up i can proove
it all..there is an article on the net
wrokte in 1999 with quotes
from an ILM artist
What this guy said is true, I heard most of this early in the 90's when GL was just considering making the PT, and doing a final version of ANH.

Where is the article? Anybody know?

MegoHulk

09-11-2002, 02:32 PM

Pepper...good to see someone else here agrees with me. As far as the part in ANH about adding Vader meeting the Emperor...I read that after the battle Vader interogates a rebel pilot to find out who destroyed the DS and finds out it was Luke. Also we learn that the Emperor was VERY displeased with Vader and punishes him. But of course if you add all this stuff it becomes a completely diferent movie. I just hope he doesn't totally hack these movies up...but if I'm wrong and he makes the films actually better than I'll be the first to admit I was wrong...I wouldn't count on it though. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

James

09-12-2002, 12:39 AM

GL should make some changes and add more special fx so it can be more like the PT. These are some scenes I would think of changing or making better:

ANH: Vader should look out at Tatooine from a window in the Star Destroyer and be reflecting and all that. We should see a part when Palpatine tells the Imperial Senate about what Vader said that the princess was killed by a meteor shower or whatever it was. We should see an older looking Bail Organa receiving the message. When Tarkin is talking to Vader, Motti and all the rest in that conference room, he is so happy about his death star that he should say that the Geonosians came up with the idea and they are indebeted to them bla bla bla...

On Tatooine when C-3PO tells Luke about not knowing where he is should be changed that R2-D2 beeps at him, saying they're on Tatooine...In Mos Eiseley, we should see Aqualishes and Dugs and Toydarians and other PT aliens.

The rest of it is flawless.

TESB - Palpatine should be changed from that other guy to Ian McDiamond or whatever his name is. We have become so used to that croaky sort of voice in Eps I, II and VI that in V it makes it not as good. When you see a close-up of the hologram, you can tell the face is all different, even though there's a hood.

ROTJ - I believe that stuff about TIEs style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tie.gif appearing out of nowhere is right. Keep in the ewoks, they're hilarious style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
Obi-Wan should tell Luke all that family history was, and tell him that his mother was Padmé Amidala, Queen and later Senator of Naboo, and how she died. Luke should remind the emperor about the pain he had caused Padmé, and he should say something like "That foolish young lady only helped my ascent to power, Skywalker. If you hate her for helping me, join me. Yes, hate her!!!" that sound kinda stupid ??? but it should be something along those line.

Winston_Sith

09-12-2002, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by DarthJames@Sep 12 2002, 03:39 AM
When Tarkin is talking to Vader, Motti and all the rest in that conference room, he is so happy about his death star that he should say that the Geonosians came up with the idea and they are indebeted to them bla bla bla...
Hmmm. Sounds good, but someone as power-mad as Tarkin wouldn't stop to thank some inferior alien species, when he could just thank himself, right?

But there should also be Geonosians on (or near) the Death Star II in Episode ROTJ.

I don't know, maybe flying around in spacesuits while working on the unfinished areas, or something...

ReturnoftheWhill

10-05-2002, 10:14 AM

My first addition is to change the opening crawl, not actually mess with the text. CGI it! Then take out the old MAintheme song and put in the new one with better quality and better orchestra (I did this edit on my film on the computer, pretty awesome!)

I wish they could change the DS uniforms the hats look kind of gay, they can't though

The Vader and Obi fight, we must change that! We have to!

Light sabers (I've said this enough, the camera cuts when Luke turns his on) It just pisses me off. Get rid of it!

DS explosion, still needs to be elaborated!

Digitize every damn frame!

Get some Emperor in ANH.

Make Han shoot first.

MAke Jabba fatter.

Help Alec Guiness run normally when he charges off in the Death Star, and not like a cripple trying to walk.

and better FX to the DS. it looks to plain, not as complex.

Winston_Sith

10-06-2002, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by ReturnoftheWhill@Oct 5 2002, 01:14 PM
My first addition is to change the opening crawl, not actually mess with the text. CGI it! Then take out the old MAintheme song and put in the new one with better quality and better orchestra (I did this edit on my film on the computer, pretty awesome!)

I wish they could change the DS uniforms the hats look kind of gay, they can't though

The Vader and Obi fight, we must change that! We have to!

Light sabers (I've said this enough, the camera cuts when Luke turns his on) It just pisses me off. Get rid of it!

DS explosion, still needs to be elaborated!

Digitize every damn frame!

Get some Emperor in ANH.

Make Han shoot first.

MAke Jabba fatter.

Help Alec Guiness run normally when he charges off in the Death Star, and not like a cripple trying to walk.

and better FX to the DS. it looks to plain, not as complex.
Dude, do you even LIKE Star Wars?

From coments of yours, like, "What about making the movies?" (on the "Your favorite mistake in Star Wars" thread), I assume that you really don't.

I think you're just a perverted little retard who... (edited to prevent a MAJOR FLAME WAR)

P.S. Why, oh, why, do you think that members of Yoda's species are called "Whills"? Did GL come to you in a dream and reveal this to you?

(I'll stop now...)

Gordon Universe

10-06-2002, 07:27 AM

I would agree about the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader. If you sat down and watched them all, after the prequels the light-sabre fight in IV would just be odd, and watching how good Vader is in V and VI, you would think that Vader is just playing with the old Kenobi in IV, which I guess is a way to look at it, but not, I don't think, what George was going for. I'm not entirely sure how they could do that, what with Alec Guiness having passed away... I suppose they could have somebody else do it, and replace his face... that would seem weird (a little disrespectful), but I'd probably get used to it.

I really hope they improve the look of Jabba in ANH... I think the scene is very good and helps the trilogy if you watch it in one sitting, but with the 97 effects, it's got that "Roger Rabbit" feel.

The thing I read in this post about Darth Vader watching an old hologram of Padme is awesome! I really hope that that's why they shot Natalie (not totally trusting Rick on his recent StarWars.com denial, especially after putting it in the context of a hologram). It's a lot like the scene in Minority Report (if you've seen it, you'll remember the scene), and it totallly works for the internal confilct that Vader is going through big-time in Return of the Jedi.

Replacing James Earl Jones's voice with Yosemite Sam's. Have the ghost of the only ewok that dies in the battle of endor to be with Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan at the end, digitally add slacks to Chewbacca, as to be politically correct in today's society... Wait, those last three are probably bad ideas.

borgmatrix

10-06-2002, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by Gordon Universe@Oct 6 2002, 10:27 AM
If you sat down and watched them all, after the prequels the light-sabre fight in IV would just be odd
I thought that ANH lightsaber battle looked lame before the prequels were made. Yeah, it definitely needs some work.

RollaFett

10-06-2002, 11:01 PM

Winston Sith-
I think you're just a perverted little retard who... (edited to prevent a MAJOR FLAME WAR)

I sense that you were trying to hold back a bit, but you didn't do a very good job. "perverted little retard" is a major flame. Don't do it again, please.

Winston_Sith

10-07-2002, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by GollaFett@Oct 7 2002, 02:01 AM
Don't do it again, please.
Gotcha.

ATurnFortheWorse

10-07-2002, 10:14 PM

They could improve the duel between Obi-wan and Vader. Why? Because Obi's got his hood on, and Vader is in a suit. Hence you can have a completely different actor in ANH playing Obi-wan! Ever think of that?

I do agree with you on how Whill is a perverted little retard, however I think he has a few good points on ANH.

The lightsabers definetly, I remember the cut when Luke turns his on, I hate that too!

LOL! ROFL at your comment about Alec Guiness, I remember that! LMAO!

P.S. Whilly, wake up, kids are on this thing!

Winston_Sith

10-09-2002, 03:58 AM

Yeah, he may have a few good points, after all...

I guess I was momentarily possessed by MegoHulk... or some other OT 'purist'. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

And that the last line about Alec Guiness was the trigger. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif

MegoHulk

10-09-2002, 04:52 AM

:::waves hands in front of Winston:::

you will defend the OT...you will say re-doing anything in it is silly...

Seriously though....re-doing the Obi Wan duel? It's disrespectful to Alec and SW fans. Obi Wan was only trying to stall vader not fight him, he didn't need to be flashy. Besides, Vader comments "your powers are weak old man"...do we really need to see Obi Wan doing flips and spins? Besides fixing FX, I really wouldn't want to see any changes done to the OT except.....making Han shot first, fixing Jabba, removing the stupid singing number in ROTJ, putting the Ewok song back in, and maybe the Padme hologram. No new scenes or CGI where it isn't needed.

Darth Vegas

10-09-2002, 06:04 AM

Well you know what Megohulk, Alec Guiness didn't like us fans anyway, and the fans don't like the stupid duel in ANH.

Please change it George it sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

MegoHulk

10-09-2002, 12:34 PM

Ah, so you speak for all fans now? Alec resented the fact that he would be remembered for a silly space movie and not for all the serious work he did in his career before SW. Besides Mark Hamill and a few of the people who wore masks in the movie, no one wants to be remembered only for their work on SW. You don't see Harrison Ford doing bit parts on cartoons and movies, or Carrie Fisher wearing a metal bikini everytime she goes out. Most actors in Sci fi movies don't like to be associated with the shows or movies they did....they branch out and try not to be type casted. Thats all besides the point....the duel is fine because as I said, it was only to stall Vader...Obi Wan is in his 60's during ANH...he's not going to be doing alot of fancy moves, he's not Yoda. Sure the sabers could be fixed, but to add CGI with Ben jumping around would be silly. The point of the scene is to show Ben sacrificing himself for Luke to get away. It also shows how much stronger Vader is and that he's toying with Obi Wan, trying to figure out why he came back. I think sometimes you people get caught up in special effects and you can't see the big picture...GL seems to be the same way. I see almost everyone here complain about alot of the SE changes yet noone really cares. GL is not perfect and some of those changes are just awful and only done for the money. I don't mind some of the FX clean ups, alot of them look good and add to the movies, it's the stupid stuff that really makes me wonder why he does things though. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

Jedi D'oh

10-09-2002, 12:54 PM

Great point Megohulk.

Darth Vegas

10-09-2002, 01:51 PM

No one said they needed to add a cgi Obi-Wan jumping aroung, no one said anything of the sort, the point is, that the duel in ANH is for one thing not long enough, and it just sucks.

Not because of special effects reasons, but becasue the actors had not trained enough and it was obvious that they knew nothing of how to sword fight.

They have an excuse for how the lightsabers looked so crappy, because three months before the film was shceduled to be released they had absolutely no effects shot done, they had such a short time to do them, it's no surprise how much there is to fix up.

They need to do something about the duel, and why not just film a brand new one with Ewan Mcgregor playing the part? That would be much better than trying to fix up that nightmare.

We're supposed to believe that a man about 58 years in age loses most of his ability in only 18, 19 years? But Luke who only had a few days of training could fight better than him?

I don't think so, that's just a lame excuse for the actors lack of training. Shoot it was a stunt man playing Vader during the fight, someone that knew how to sword fight, and he still sucked.

It's something that really should be fixed, not to add the old guy jumping around or anything, but to at least make it to where he looks like he's been trained in the Jedi arts of lightsaber combat.

Jedi D'oh

10-09-2002, 01:56 PM

also remeber, the jedi had been extinct for 20 or so years. abilities do degrade after time.

when i broke my wrist, it took a while to get back to being as good on guitar as i was before. and the was only a few months.

do no replace alec with ewan. thats disrespect to alec (not to mention that he's dead).

i agree it should be fixed up alittle, but not added to. as megohulk said, the fight was a delay tactic, not a challenging duel. if obi had his way, he wouldn't have fought vader at all. but it was inevitable. he was trying to just get back to the ship.

Darth Vegas

10-09-2002, 02:12 PM

Sure abilities degrade in time, but a young kid with only a hand full of lessons would not fight better than someone who had a life time of lessons, even if he hadn't used his abilities for 18+ years.

It just is not plausible, it's something that needs to be fixed.

By the way he was looking Vader he was not trying to get back to the ship, read the book, and watch the film more closely, he knew he was going to face him. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Martini

10-09-2002, 02:27 PM

well maybe if lucas didnt make the prequels so glamourous and flashy, then maybe the OT would be fine as it is. these saber duels are too hyped up and fake in the PT in my opinion

Jedi D'oh

10-09-2002, 02:30 PM

he knew it, but wanted to avoid it if possible. please don't question my lore, i have made SW my lifelong love.
i know them backwards and forwards. some of these things are open to interpretaion, that's all.

He knew it had to happen at some point, maybe not just then.

and to address your plausibility factor, this one one of the things i wonder about in terms of the continuity of the entire story. i hope it all falls into place.

Sith1977

10-09-2002, 02:32 PM

Why does anyone want to change anything in the OT? Cleaning up the film, removing those black lines in special effects and things that make these movies endure the time is ok, but why change the film? I am perfectly ok with the original trilogy, if it´s on DVD with the digital sound. Good picture, great sound and I´m fine. I experienced the OT without the special scenes, and I was amazed. It looked great. I don´t care if the duel in ANH does not stand up to the other duels. Besides, the duel in AotC does not stand up against Vader vs. Luke in ESB, but that´s my personal opinion. It lacks the tension, the drama. It´s just a fast choreographed piece of Martial arts (especially that Yoda-thing). I don´t see it as a duel to the death between two enemies, because I don´t remember one single move by either side. Lucas really puts special effects above tension and drama. He looses his focus on the greatness of the story. Compare the duels in ESB and AotC. But perhaps today a fast-moving-martial-arts-scene is more satisfying than a tense, chilling and well made old-school duel. It´s the same with the spacebattles in ANH and TPM.
And don´t get me wrong, I love every single SW-movie. I live by them, but I do like the old style a little bit more.

Martini

10-09-2002, 02:36 PM

WOW, THANK YOU!! someone finally come out and said it. the duels in AOTC were terrible. NO TENSION or DRAMA! and i can only remember one or two moves in it. ESB had it all. ROTJ i thought was too short

ATurnFortheWorse

10-09-2002, 06:50 PM

Martini come on, they have to match! I'm not here to denounce the trilogy, but the duels in AOTC did not suck. I don't know where in the h#$# you got the tension in the OT. Perhaps it was because you didn't know what was going to happen, and you do now? The "your powers are weak old man" quote really doesn't matter at all. Why? BECAUSE DOOKU SAID THAT TO OBI-WAN IN AOTC!!! It's just a term to get him angry and make him screw up.

Now have a cookie and drink some milk.

JediBendu

10-09-2002, 07:22 PM

different audience, different market, different decade. the PT duels appeal to the younger audience today as much as the OT did before.
I think George summed it up nicely when he mentioned that audiences are more sophisticated in viewing tastes and have the capacity it absorb far greater quantities of information at a much faster rate. He put it down to the effect of TV, specifically advertising, and the fact that it's the standard baby sitter for kids.
He made those comments just before esb came out style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

The esb duel is the best by far - it's a coming of age battle between a generation of Jedi - a novice up against the best of the bloodiest best. The PT duels are between established fighters, there's no emotional connection to the battle, so it makes up for it in technical and aesthetic prowess.

MegoHulk

10-10-2002, 02:16 AM

Now that I think of it, the duels in AOTC did kinda suck. It was exciting but it was missing something too. I really liked the duel in ESB and even TPM. The OT is fine, and we've all had this argument before...but SW is more than the sum of its parts. It's more than just an FX fest...it's a modern myth and something that just shouldn't be messed with every couple of years.

Sith1977

10-10-2002, 02:36 AM

I did not say they the duels in AotC suck. I merely stated they don´t stand up to the OT duels. The duel of the fates in TPM was a great duel, because it found the right path between tension and martial arts (although I don´t like the end of it). It started like a stand-off and it had the right musical surrounding. The music was one important piece of the cake if it comes to drama. Remember Luke vs Vader in RotJ and the deep, dark music playing in the background. Every time I hear it, I see every single picture of it in my mind. TPM provided some of this, but AotC lacked it (so far; I don´t know if it´s going to come after watching it another 100 times...).
I pray GL succeeds in writing some old school duel to take place between Anakin and Kenobi in Ep III. It would provide the dramatic background. It´s the most important duel of the PT, and I don´t want it ruined by some 3-minute-martial-arts-show.

ATurnFortheWorse

10-10-2002, 01:51 PM

Yoda saved the day, remember that. The "Luke I am your father" crap is what excited you? ROTJ duel... what the hell was that. "Dark Side" was used so many time... and Luke was under the stairs and Vader couldn't see him. Come on man. No spins, no nice moves. Throwing a light saber? Luke flies out a window at a speed of 15 MPH when it should be more like 300 MPH, becuase of pressure. Vader hitting the railings? Missing? Luke wasn't even trained!!! I can't you are obsessed with OT duels. It's nostalgia that's all it is. The reason you like them is because they were the first duels you saw! If you people would listen to how the stories should turn out, then you would realize that the "real" duels will appear in Episode III. Why? Because everything will be explained. The Emperor will surely tell Yoda/Mace what's going on when he is crowned. It will be like an old-school duel. Other than that, people, open up your world...

Sith1977

10-10-2002, 04:23 PM

Good point, they were the first duels I ever saw. And there were no spins, no turns. But do you think spins and turns like the ones Yoda performs in AotC make a duel exciting and fascinating ?
Those old-school-duels fascinate me although they are full of flaws. And that´s because I just don´t care. I don´t want to mess around with things like bouncing lightsabers or trained or untrained.
And what do you mean by "If you people would listen to how the stories should turn out". Actually I´m quite sure how it will turn out in some aspects, and that´s what keeps me excited about Ep3. There won´t be a fighting Sidious or worse, Yoda vs Sidious. And there won´t be a huge Jedi vs Sith battle either.
There will be only one "real" duel, and that´s Anakin vs. Kenobi. But I really hope it´s done well. And a little bit longer than 3 minutes.