Wouldn't Vader Sense Princess Leia's His Daughter?

[James]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif Vader cannot sense that Leia is his daughter. He only knows Luke, partly because of the name Skywalker, and that he can sense him.

But Leia he doesn't know.

Luke doesn't even know that Vader the feared one is his father.Even though Luke is alot like his father ( sort of )
and Vader knows that Luke is his son.

[hanlover]

how do u know that vader can't sense that leia is his daughter? he never says anything about not knowing her to be his offspring, in fact, he tries to get luke all worked up by telling him that if he won't join him, maybe his sister would, and since they're twins, there isn't any doubt to who her father is. Also, when that senator guy or whoever wanted to kill her after she lied to them about where the rebel station was, vader told him not to b/c she may be of use to them, and i think he meant that on a deeper level than just to provide them with information.

[Nathan Butler]

Well, just a thought:

Qui-Gon can't sense that Anakin has Force-potential. He can sense that there's something not quite right, then he has to TEST Anakin to be sure. Even the Jedi Council has to.

So perhaps latent Force connections aren't as easy to sense as the novels have often made them out to be.

[James]

Hi, it's me who started this thread..

To hanlover: in the ROTJ novel, it tells us that Darth finds out that Leia is Luke's sister because he senses it.

And also, if he had known, wouldn't he have killed Princess Leia when he took her on board the Death Star, wanting to rid the galaxy of any threat to the Empire? I mean, he wouldn't of cared if she was his daughter...

[Nathan Butler]

Hmm, sorry, I can't go with that.

First, Vader doesn't sense that Leia is his daughter until he senses from Luke that he has a sister, which may be what you meant, but if not, well, that's how it went.

As for the urge to kill her on the spot if he had known . . . Nope, I don't buy it. Vader would've simply tried to corrupt Leia as he did Luke, in order to take over as Master and get rid of Palpy. Same scenario, different child.

[Justin]

At the battle at the end of Star Wars, Vader senses that the pilot of the X-wing he is chasing (who happens to be Luke) is strong in the force, but he can't sense that he's his son. * So I don't think he would be able to sense that Leia is his daughter.

[Handothrawn]

Darth Vader could feel that the pilot in ANH was strong in the Force but not who he was, simararily he could probably sense Leia was just as strong, but Leia was a Senator, and Vader is the most feared guy in the galaxy. If he reffered to Leia as if she was powerful he would really lose some of his intimidation.

[Luthien]

Hmm...for one, Luke used his force powers, so he was easier to sense, since he created ripples in the force. While Leia's force potential was as far as I know unused, which might have made it a lot harder to figure out that she had real force potential.

And of course, I doubt he sensed anything more than the fact that Luke was strong in the force. I think it was the name Skywalker that proved to Vader that Luke was his son.

[Darth_Stevious]

I believe Vader knew he had a child, but did not know that he was the father of twins. I think that Padme went into hiding while she was pregnant out of fear of Anakin/Vader as he began to be consumed more and more by the Dark Side. It was in hiding that she had her children and then had them taken to different locations to be hidden from Anakin/Vader.
When Vader encountered Luke at the battle of Yavin he felt how strong he was with the Force. It wouldn't have been hard for him to discover that this rebel pilot shared his last name.
The clairvoyant powers of the Force seem rely on reading the thoughts of others and not just simply picking the knowledge out of thin air. Luke knew he had a father that was a Jedi and fought in the Clone Wars with Obi-Wan Kenobi. It wouldn't have been hard for Vader to pick up on these thoughts and determine that Luke was his son.
Leia on the other hand was a complete mystery. Not only did Anakin/Vader not know that he had a daughter (my contention) but Leia herself probably thought that her father was Bail Organa. I believe that this would have been enough to keep Vader from being able to figure it out.

[Badass Leia]

In ANH Vader calls Leia a traitor. I don't know if that means going against him as her father? I guess he doesn't sense her. beats me! AH! :dontgetit:

[nunzio]

Some of this will probably be cleared up in Ep. 3, but I doubt Vader knew his wife was pregnant at all. Otherwise, he would have instigated a galaxy-wide hunt for the offspring. Actually, I think Vader's entire pre-injury memories were forgotten, either by the trauma of the (lava pit or whatever it turns out to be) or else by Palpatine's brainwashing. The memories come back piecemeal as the original trilogy unfolds. This is why it is meaningless for him to be orbiting Tatooine at the beginning of the first film. He has no knowledge of his history there.

When the name of the galactic hero becomes public knowledge, the name Skywalker jogs that part of his memory. He then puts the pieces together that Padme must have been with child and that Luke must be his son, since he felt the Force so strongly with the x-wing pilot.

The Emperor initially wanted Luke killed probably because he suspected the sort of conspiring that Vader suggested at the end of EMPIRE.

[James]

[/B]In ANH Vader calls Leia a traitor. I don't know if that means going against him as her father? I guess he doesn't sense her. beats me! [B]

It think Vader is referring to her using her diplomatic status in the Imperial Senate for her own uses.

[Philby]

Well as far as I know he didn't know he had a daughter? But I reckon he worked out pretty soon that Luke was his son. As in before ESB. When he first communicates with the Emperor, the Emperor says he must not be allowed to become a Jedi. This would suggest Vader or someone else kills him. Vader says if he could be turned he could be a powerful ally. To me this suggests hes worked out who he is, feels the emperor wants him gone but is reluctant to kill his son! Even though he says he will join us or be destroyed, it could just be cover for his true feelings. Later on in ROTJ I think when the emperor says I sense you want to continue your search for Skywalker and questions Vaders feelings on the matter, this also means to me he doesn't want to kill him or turn him or anything, he wants to be reunited or something. I think the journey coming back to the light side begins earlier than the last few scenes of ROTJ.
lol!! Look how deep we are getting into it!
I think I've really taken to Darth Vader in the last few years, and more so now with Anakin, I think its what I'm mainly interested in with the prequels, seeing how he makes the change from light to dark, as we know how he goes from dark to light.

[Leia]

I agree with every single thing that Darth Stevious said. I was going to write my opinion, but then you hit it right on the button! so, I'm throwing my lot in with Stevious ;)

[AlanRJ]

Well Leia didn't know she had strong force potential so she would never be using the force which I believe would have made it next to impossible for Vader to have sensed her. It was the same with Luke. Vader knew nothing about him until the first Death Star when Luke started reaching out with his feelings and Vader then sensed the force in him but he did say that the force was strong with him. I do not believe that he knew it was his son.

[MonMartha]

I'll cast my vote with Darth Stevious and add one little detail. Darth Vader said to Tarkin that Leia "would never betray the secret location" of the Rebel Base. She's been Bail's daughter and a Senator, and, she's had so many defenses in place for so long, it's very hard to read her mind. (Just ask Han! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif)

Seriously now, it's only when Luke starts asking questions on Endor, speaking as though he has most of the pieces of the puzzle, that Leia puts all the pieces all together in her mind.

Does knowing the truth put Leia at risk? Perhaps. I trust that eventually she will learn more about her mother, too.

MM

[SonGokou]

By the time Luke was in Vaders TIE fighter sights he had been "awakend" to his true potential. He had practiced using his powers against the drone on the Falcon. He was using the Force by this time (not his targeting computer) to pilot his X-wing. Leia on the other hand, never had training - she had never even heard of the force. You can be assured, if Vader knew of her true potential she would have been toast. Vader said she would never betray the location of the Rebel base, why bother attempting to convert her when he could be just be done with her. Destiny prevailed though, as "She may be of some use yet."

[Rinc]

Interestign points. Agree that Vader didn't know about Leia and probably not Luke. He only sensed Luke when he was using the force. As Leia wasn't aware of her force powers, Vader couldn't sense her.

I'm commenting on this as i want to point out one thing from ESB. When Han is being put into carbon freeze Chewie kicks up a fuss. The stormtroopers try to stop and then Han calms him down. While this is happening Vader and Leia looom at each other as if to say there is a connection there.

[DblDwn]

How about this: When Anakin becomes Vader, he cuts all ties to his former life, i.e. friends, family, droids, Jedi, whatever. That way it is easier for him to be as evil as he is, because as we all know, there is still good in him that would serve as a type of good angel on one shoulder, bad angel on the shoulder type of situation.

At the Battle of Yavin all he says is that, "The Force is strong with this one." There never is any indication that he knows who it is. Then during the opening scroll in ESB, it says that Lord Vader is 'obsessed' with finding 'young Skywalker'. That also does not imply that Vader knows who Luke is. Vader could simply see Luke as a Force-Strong guy who, for the most part at the end, single-handedly destroyed the Death Star. Therefore he is looking for him because he is a threat. It only says 'young Skywalker' in the scroll so that we, the viewers, know who is being referred to. It's not going to say 'Lord Vader, obsessed with finding that one kid who blew up the Death Star a couple of years ago."

Perhaps Vader doesn't learn of Luke's origin until he is speaking with the Emperor's hologram on the Star Destroyer and the Emperor says, "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi." Then, upon hearing this, Vader decides to suggest that they attempt to turn Luke to the Dark Side because he would be a powerful ally. Which would in turn negate the entire 'only two there are'. So he has now learned that Luke is his son and is trying to suggest attempting to 'turn' him so that his life will be spared. Although knowing, that he will tell Luke that he is his father in an attempt to persuade Luke to join him in order to defeat the Emperor and, "Rule the galaxy as father and son."

Then Vader doesn't realize that Luke has a sister until on the Death Star when Luke's thoughts are dwelling on his friends, especially his sister. Remember that when Vader reads this thought of Luke's he says, "So you have a twin sister. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete." Right there he is saying that he had no clue that he had a daughter either.

[Lonesabre]

Good points DblDwn, I totally agree. Vader knows he has a son - but not a daughter. This whole thing is explained from a few quotes from the OT.

Ive always reckoned that somewhere between ANH and TESB Vader finds out that Luke is his son. This, for me, is explained in the title scroll for TESB 'Vader obsessed with finding young Skywalker...' Ive always assumed at this point he knows Lukes name and has already made the connection.

He also already knows before the Emperors hologram says 'The son of Skywalker must not become a jedi', otherwise at this point Vader would stand up and say 'Oh my god!!!! I have a son!!!!!!!!!'

He doesnt know anyhting about Leia until he reads Lukes mind on the Death Star II 'A sister... Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me...' This clearly indicates he had no idea!

As for at the time of the birth whether Vader and the Emperor know of the pregnancy... Im not quite sure! Definately Leia is unknown. Either both Vader and the Emperor are in the dark or, only the Emperor is... I always got the impression that Vader knew he had one child. I cant quite get my thoughts on this straight at the moment, but I think it all hangs on the quote from Obi-Wan in ROTJ 'The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is why your sister remains safely anonimous'

As for keeping to the rule of two, they do! Vader and Palpy at first. Then Vader wants Luke to be with him and overthrow the Emperor. Then Paply wants young Luke to join him instead of Vader, so they do keep to it, even though there stabbing each other in the back!!!

What do you think?!

* :whatsthat: *:mad: *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sneaky2.gif

[DblDwn]

Good job on pointing out that quote by Obi-Wan in ROTJ about Luke's sister remaining "safely anonymous." I had forgotten about that one when I was making my point above.

[darthleith]

Also, don't forget that Padme is able to "hide" from the Jedi in TPM. Like mother like daughter? I'm pretty sure Naboo will give up a few secrets in Episode 3.

[JediBendu]

Actually, the dvd voice over commentary has GL commenting that the Jedi did actually know the entire time but were just going along with the charade for Padme's protection.

'The queen trusts my judgement, you should too' was Qui-Gon saying - back off queenie, you're out of your league here.

The specific commentary occurs when Padme is pleading with Boss Nass.

[James]

bumpity-bump.

I've been doing a bit of fossil-digging.

Discuss!!

[Jedi_Poo]

It is because Leia's force powers were dormant at the time and Vader couldn't sense them because they weren't there yet.

[Ko-Enshaku]

Or her force powers were so weak they were but a pinhole of light shining through and they couldn't sense her because of it.

[MANVERU]

Ok, try this. In the ROTS novel, Padme said to Anakin that she was pregnant, but she didnt point out that the fact was she had twins. so, at the battle of yavin 4 wen Vader was tailing Luke he said "The force is strong with this one". later on vader might of assumed that he had some connection. Also, do me a favour and watch the DVD version of The empire strikes back, and watch the scene where vader talks to Palpy via hologram, he says, "The son of Skywalker most not live" or some thing like that, "Search your feelings lord Vader, you know it be true.
About Leia, I think that the way Vader found out about her was thrue the Emperor. I think he told him about her.

[James]

Vader must have thought that Padmé had died while shewas pregnant.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by SITH LORD@Apr 22 2005, 02:21 AM
.....About Leia, I think that the way Vader found out about her was thrue the Emperor. I think he told him about her.
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We know when Vader found out about Leia. We saw it at the end of ROTJ. I don't think that it can be up for dispute.

During the final confrontation, when Luke is hiding in the dark and Vader is looking for him, DV says, "Sister.....You have a twin sister...", etc. That is obviously the first time the Darthy finds out about her and is the reason for Luke's attack of him. 'Nuff said.

[ROR_JagFel_20]

Originally posted by Ko-Enshaku@Apr 21 2005, 11:40 PM
Or her force powers were so weak they were but a pinhole of light shining through and they couldn't sense her because of it.
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Thats almost on the same line i was thinking. That Leia's powers weren't that strong so it would seem to Vader like it was just a ripple in the force.

[blacksaber]

maybe he couldn't sense them becasuse he never saw them at birth (assumption that Padme didn't let the self proclaimed jedi purger look after their kids style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[fred2]

You could argue that his subconscious felt a connection to Leia. Just as with Luke, Vader did what he could to avoid killing her.

"They must be trying to return the stolen plans to the princess. She may yet be of some use to us."

Ever notice how Vader places his hands on Leia as she watches her home get obliviated? It's sort of tender in a wierd Dark Father kind of way...

Also, he only tortures Han Solo in ESB. He does no harm to Leia.

He knew man. He knew.

[Darth Magnus]

Regardless of what happens in ROTS its likely Anakin knows about Luke when Obi Wan gives him the light saber in ANH he says that Luke's father wanted him to have it when he was old enough. I also think that Vader senses Luke in ANH but doesnt realize who he is right away but is obsessed with finding luke by ESB so between the two movies he probably through the force and through investigation focuses and expands upon what he sensed in ANH and comes to learn who luke is

[brookie]

Originally posted by Jedi_Poo@Apr 21 2005, 04:27 PM
It is because Leia's force powers were dormant at the time and Vader couldn't sense them because they weren't there yet.
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yep. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Olga]

If Vader had known Leia was his daughter in ANH, would he have tried to take her as an apprentice? After all, all Sith aim to overthrow their masters sooner or later.

[Sluggo]

I think one of the Star Wars Infinities covered this topic. Very cool, if I remember right.

[Sluggo]

Uh, the Star Wars Infinities comic books, that is.

[Mark Skywalker]

Originally posted by James@May 16 2002, 11:04 PM
Vader cannot sense that Leia is his daughter. He only knows Luke, partly because of the name Skywalker, and that he can sense him.

But Leia he doesn't know.


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Because Leia didn't use her Force powers like Luke did. Vader only sense Luke Thought The Force When he used The Force to Destory "The First Death Star". And He only discover Luke was his son by The name "Skywalker".

[Mark Skywalker]

Originally posted by bubbha@Apr 19 2005, 07:02 AM
Question 1: When did Vader find out that Luke was his son?
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The answer can be found in a Star Wars comic short series called "Vader's Quest" a link between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back .

Vader's Quest #1 (of 4)

Description: With the destruction of the Death Star, the Rebel Alliance has struck a critical blow against the forces of the evil Emperor Palpatine. And with the Senate dissolved and the Empire's main tool of domination reduced to space dust, thousands of systems have joined their voices against the Empire. After Darth Vader's narrow escape from the doomed Death Star, the dark lord is consumed with a desire to find the identity of the Force-strong young pilot, who had fired the fatal shot. For the young pilot represents the strength and tenacity of this newly galvanized Rebel Alliance, and perhaps, for Vader, he represents much, much more...

Vader's Quest #2 (of 4)

Description: Darth Vader has commissioned a network of spies and rogues to track down young Luke Skywalker, and one of them has struck paydirt in the form of Jal, the Rebel pilot who was forced to sit out the Battle of Yavin while Skywalker destroyed the Death Star and took all the glory. Drunk and miserable, Jal barely survives an Imperial attack and realizes that information he has casually shared might very well destroy Luke Skywalker, and perhaps the entire Rebel Alliance!

Vader's Quest #3 (of 4)

Description: It all comes together in this issue: Young Luke Skywalker hunts for the missing princess of Jazbina, oblivious to the real reason she has disappeared! The Rebel pilot Jal races to find Luke in the hope that the Empire hasn't found the Alliance's hero first! And Darth Vader prepares to land on Jazbina . . . Will the Dark Lord finally have his long-lost son in his clutches? Find out in this never-before-revealed sequel to the first Star Wars film!

Vader's Quest #4 (of 4)

Description: The insidious Darth Vader has arrived on the planet Jazbina, with devastating consequences! Having learned that the pilot who destroyed the Death Star was none other than his own son, he comes face to face for the first time with Luke Skywalker! The planet's populace stands ready to assist Luke against the evil Dark Lord, but with an Imperial Cruiser over their heads, are they willing to pay the price for defying Vader?


For more check out Jedi.net (http://www.jedinet.com/timeline/timeline.asp?title=vq)

[Mystic]

Merci

That was tres insightful

[Mark Skywalker]

Originally posted by Mystic@May 14 2005, 07:14 PM
Merci

That was tres insightful
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Your Welcome. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/victory.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Mystic]

Glad to see that there are still people today with good manners

[James William Alexander Atreides]

Originally posted by Nathan Butler@May 24 2002, 05:43 PM
Hmm, sorry, I can't go with that.

First, Vader doesn't sense that Leia is his daughter until he senses from Luke that he has a sister, which may be what you meant, but if not, well, that's how it went.

As for the urge to kill her on the spot if he had known . . . Nope, I don't buy it. Vader would've simply tried to corrupt Leia as he did Luke, in order to take over as Master and get rid of Palpy. *Same scenario, different child.
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Vader knows the force is strong in Luke at the end of ANH but doesn't know he is his son until the Emperor tells him in ESB. In ROTJ, Vader then senses that Luke has a sister, but Luke had just found that out himself. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/vader.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Raganork8]

i just don't understand why he doesn't sense the force in her...

[Javen]

Because the force wasn't strong with her. It was with Luke though. If she had begun training, or even met Obi WAn and had been with him I'm sure he would have sensed something different about her. But for the most part he just doesn't.

[princess jaina]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/artoo.gif well....when amidala said she is pregnant, she said about one, she doesn't about twins....

[James William Alexander Atreides]

Originally posted by Javen@Jun 14 2005, 05:47 PM
Because the force wasn't strong with her. It was with Luke though. If she had begun training, or even met Obi WAn and had been with him I'm sure he would have sensed something different about her. But for the most part he just doesn't.
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Agreed. Luke was more in touch with the Force than Leia was. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[James William Alexander Atreides]

Originally posted by princess jaina@Jun 14 2005, 07:36 PM
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/artoo.gif well....when amidala said she is pregnant, she said about one, she doesn't about twins....
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You would think that even in an advanced society in Star Wars, Padme would know that she was having twins. Of course, if they were keeping it a secret, she wouldn't want to check for fear of exposure, so she might not know whether it was one or two.


not a picture thread.. if you want to post padme pictures please do so in the padme in hot pants thread.

[leiaorgana]

^ exactly my thoughts

[James William Alexander Atreides]

^Thank you so much. You are too kind.

Even in that advanced society, there has to be secret places one can go to find out about one's expected child or children as the case was without having to tell too many people.