Mortgages | Hotels in Britian | Loans | Mortgage Calculator | Consolidate Student Loans
A (The?) key to the Star Wars saga ? [Archive] - The Galactic Senate

PDA

View Full Version : A (The?) key to the Star Wars saga ?


MRHA
07-18-2002, 07:06 PM
Hi everyone!

I work for a quite famous french StarWars website (so, sorry for my bad english in this introduction), I send a nice theory made by our visitors to JediNet last sunday and I see that they don't put it online, but I understand, because it's quite length...
What I want is to diffuse this theory through the net because i think it can interest many people, so I post it here.

Here the translation (french to english) of my whole article :
(and by the way, the end of my awfull english in this post *)

------------------

The Key to the Star Wars saga!

Prophecy, disappearing Jedi, blue ghosts, Dark Side, all of this is explained in this article!

The theory pesented here was born from the prolific minds of StarWars-Universe.com forum members. It’s a global synthesis of the Star Wars saga build around Anakin Skywalker’s powers by Halpheus, a SWU staff member, and by many other forum members like General Kenobi.

I advise people who don’t want to know what will happen in the next movie or risk spoiling what could possibly change our vision of the saga not to read what follows, which is still just a theory.

What follows is more than likely, considering the depth of thought, and could change your perception of the Star Wars saga forever. You have been warned! We’ll talk about the Force, the prophecy, Jedi who disappear and reappear after their death, all of this explained... Enough with introductions, let’s get to the heart of the matter.

1. The two Forces governing the Universe

The Prequels have incredibly widened the concept of the Force as we knew it in the Old Trilogy. More than an energy field binding all biological (ANH) and mineral (ESB) things in the Galaxy, since TPM the Force is divided into two components: the Living Force (LF) and the Unifying Force (UF). These two Forces are integrated differently by individuals according to their personality, their philosophy, and of course their midichlorian count.

This is how George Lucas defined the LF and the UF in the book "The Making of Episode I The Phantom Menace" (p.8-9):

« The Force itself breaks into two sides: the living Force and a greater, cosmic Force. The living Force makes you sensitive to other living things, makes you intuitive, and allows you to read other people’s minds, et cetera. But the greater Force has to do with destiny. In working with the Force, you can find your destiny and you can choose to either follow it, or not. »

According to what we learn in the prequels, we can thus define the LF as the sensible component, the consciousness of the individual, the "I", and the UF as the intelligible component, the collective consciousness, the "We". The Jedi Council illustrates perfectly this philosophy.

Taking the LF to extremes, we have what can be called a corruption of this Force: the Dark Side, where personal feelings come before the common good and where one uses close interaction (mind tricks - accepted by the Code when they’re not for personal goals -, Force choke, lightning, etc).

We can sum up the different concepts in this diagram:


/\
I->Pure Unifying Force (We)
I
I
I
I
I
I
I->Jedi Order
I
=>>Balance of the Forces: Anakin and Luke at the end of ROTJ
I
I->Qui Gon Jinn
I
I->Dooku
I
I->Darth Vader
I->Palpatine
I
I >Pure Living Force (I)
\/


The meaning of the famous prophecy becomes now evident: to balance the LF and the UF, to achieve the common good without forgetting one’s personality. This will be a particularity of the new Jedi order (the post-ROTJ era, not the book series) born with Anakin and Luke Skywalker. By not listening to Yoda in ESB, when he was advised to concentrate on the fight against the Empire and forget his suffering friends, Luke managed to reach a balance between the two Forces, and the notion of Chosen One connected to Anakin takes all its importance when he kills Palpatine and the Sith Order, the primary source of the unbalance.

One has to notice the irony of the situation: it is Yoda himself, with his conservative doctrine, who taught Dooku - and thus Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin in turn - the very source of the unbalance pushed at its height during the Empire.

Now that we have explained the concept of the prophecy and the definition of the Force, we’ll use this to enlighten the remaining dark spots of the Star Wars saga.

2. The cremation of Qui-Gon Jinn in TPM

Before TPM was released, the common belief was that Jedi don’t die like everybody: they disappear and come back as blue ghosts afterwards. All of the Jedi of the Old Trilogy were seen dying that way, even Anakin: according to official declarations, Luke burned an empty armour at the end of ROTJ. Then came TPM and Qui-Gon’s non-disappearance and cremation. This coupled with the incineration of Vader’s armour in ROTJ leads to the conclusion that cremation was traditional in the Jedi Order, and that the disappearing/reappearing phenomenon was unknown before the time of ANH. Moreover, we don’t see any Jedi disappear on Geonosis.

3. Qui-Gon Jinn’s voice in AOTC

Just as Luke first hears Obi-Wan in ANH, then sees him in following episodes, Anakin first hears Qui-Gon Jinn’s voice during the Tusken massacre scene.

At the same moment, Yoda is meditating in his quarters of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, more precisely he’s probing the Dark Side. He also hears this voice and doesn’t believe his pointy ears, as is explained in the AOTC novelization p.276:

« It was Qui-Gon. Yoda knew it was Qui-Gon. But Qui-Gon was dead, had become one with the Force! One could not retain consciousness and sense of self in that state; one could not speak from beyond the grave. »

This confirms our previous conclusions. A few lines later, we can read:

« Anakin’s rush of agony manifesting in the Force had tapped into the spirit of the dead Jedi Master who had discovered him. »

We can now see a connection between the LF in its most extreme and even perverted form — the Dark side — and Anakin, the Chosen One, the materialization of the Force in flesh and blood.

4. Anakin’s confession to Padmé

This is what the future Vader tells to his love:

« I will even learn to stop people from dying! »

This element, added to the previous thoughts, shows a scenaristic connection between Anakin and the disappearing/reappearing-after-death phenomenon. At this point of the story, he’s the only one able to do such a thing. In fact, he has already done it with Qui-Gon without realizing.
One can wonder: « Why Qui-Gon? ». Because Anakin had a very particular relationship with his first teacher, an absolute trust, which is very rare in his life torn between the separation from his loving mother and the rigidity of the Jedi Order. The only persons who really believed in Anakin are Shmi, Qui-Gon and Padmé. Even Obi-Wan doesn’t have such a strong relationship with Anakin. He’s seen in indirect conflict with Anakin in TPM, when Qui-Gon decides to leave his Padawan to teach little Ani, and in constant doubt of his Padawan’s abilities in AOTC.

5. What could happen in Episode III and the Final Edition of the Old Trilogy

This is what George Lucas recently told to the magazine Starlog about Qui-Gon’s voice in AOTC:

« That’s a fan thing, isn’t it? It’s actually more than that. It’s a plot point. All I can really say is that you’ll find out [more] in the next film. If you thought really hard, you would probably be able to figure it out, but it really is a set-up for the next film. It’s connected with the whole ability to be brought into and become a part of the Force, but still be able to retain YOUR ability — which, up to this point, Anakin couldn’t do. »

So this power should be controllable, or at least Anakin could take a conscious part in it in the future. One important thing to remember when we talk about Anakin is that we’re not talking about a simple human, but a mystic being, a sort of god come down on earth. As Lucas says, at this point of the story, he doesn’t control his potential, his nature takes precedence over his conscious will, his personality. In Episode III, this will be reversed and he will dominate the will of the Force, which isn’t something exterior to his being like for the other Jedi, but a part of his essence. From then on, he will actually be able to bring back from the dead anyone he wants. It is perfectly possible he will voluntarily bring back Qui-Gon as a ghost in Episode III, and Padmé and/or Shmi at the end of the Final Edition of ROTJ that Lucas will correct after 2005. But even if this doesn’t happen, this theory stands anyway.

6. Obi-Wan’s words and his death

« If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. »

According to Lucas, this sentence is the key of the problem, and indeed it meets perfectly the present theory. After he said this, Obi-Wan looks at Luke from the corner of his eye, lifts his lightsabre, and Vader kills him. Obi-Wan then disappears, and Luke, distressed by his master’s death, hears his voice telling him to run away.
It is perfectly possible that Anakin’s power was naturally passed down to Luke. While Anakin is of divine essence, a god come down on earth, Luke appears as a demi-god, inheriting half of his father’s divine essence and thus taking part in the prophecy.
Obi-Wan’s little smile to Luke before his death is eloquent: the extreme trust that exists between them added to Luke’s emotional distress caused Obi-Wan’s rebirth, just as it happened for Anakin and Qui-Gon in AOTC. Obi-Wan knew he could count on Luke to bring him back from the dead (he will become aware of this phenomenon in Episode III or from Yoda’s words at the end of Episode II). The Jedi master has a passive role, he doesn’t disappear from his own will, but thanks to Luke’s unconscious.
As for the reason this should make him more powerful than we can ever imagine: it is probably thanks to this "half-death" that Luke managed to destroy the Death Star and continue his formation under Yoda and finally destroy the Empire.

After Obi-Wan disappeared, Vader trampled his cloak. It could be interpreted as a gesture of contempt, but more probably of surprise. He wants to check if he hasn’t seen things for two reasons: first because he has never seen any Jedi disappear like that — Qui-Gon had a "normal" death — and secondly because he thought he, the "son" of the Force, was the only one able to achieve this miracle.

Then Luke shouts the famous "Noooooo!", and Darth Vader goes to the door to see who is screaming, obviously someone close to Obi-Wan. Thinking back on Obi-Wan’s disappearance, maybe Vader realizes at that moment that this person could be his offspring, the only being capable of this miracle apart from him. Then the door closes on Vader. From a scenaristic point of view, one can even say that this shot is useless if this theory proves wrong.

7. The other two ghosts: Yoda and Anakin

In ROTJ, Yoda dies in front of Luke. It looks almost as if he was waiting for Luke to finally die, and just like Obi-Wan, Yoda disappears thanks to the son of the Chosen One.
As for Anakin, his disappearing and reappearing as a ghost can be linked either to Luke, or to himself, or both.
Here again we can see that the phenomenon is not induced by the disappearing Jedi, but by the Force residing in Luke and Anakin. On a larger scale, Anakin and Luke don’t need to invoke the Force, because they are the Force, whereas other Force-users need a connection with the targeted person and a precise intent to use the Force. This is why Vader feels Luke’s presence near Endor, while the Emperor does not.

8. The true nature of the Dark side

We explained at the beginning of this article that the Dark Side is a perversion of the sensible extreme of the Force: the LF. We know that the Force is essential to life, and vice versa. Therefore, the ultimate perversion of the Force is the breaking of the cycle of life. Anakin is at the origin of this breaking: while nature wants people to come to life and die, Anakin opposes this basic pattern of life, which explains how Yoda can hear Qui-Gon’s voice in AOTC while he was probing the Dark Side. In the same way, the rebirth phenomenon caused unconsciously by Luke and Anakin is connected to their emotional distress, i.e the LF.
This breaking of the pattern of life seems inspired by the theme of the Grail, the cup that received the blood of Christ and which is said to give eternal life to whoever drinks in it. Just as Luke achieved his quest in the Old Trilogy (in three aspects at least: the quest of the father, of his redemption and of his duality), Anakin is at the origin of this quest because of his divine nature.

9. A ghost can’t appear in the presence of the Dark Side

An element seems to contradict the present theory: Obi-Wan’s statement in ESB, when he says he won’t be able to come and help Luke on Bespin. In fact, this fits with the theory more than it contradicts it.
We’ve seen that the Dark Side is an extreme and perverted form of the LF, and that the ghostly reapparition of dead Jedi (in this particular case Obi-Wan) is also connected to this LF. Since the Dark side is a perversion of the LF, it simply smothers the existing LF. It is thus impossible for a Jedi to appear as a ghost in the presence of the Dark Side. This speculation is confirmed by a rough script of ROTJ where Vader seemed particularly surprised to see Obi-Wan’s ghost appear in front of him.

10. Conclusion

The theory presented here seems more than likely, in our opinion: nothing seems to contradict it, and many details from the movies and quotes from Lucas fit in.
If this theory proves correct, the very nature of the Star Wars saga, including the Old Trilogy, will be altered. Rewatching the movies with this theory in mind really modifies our perception of it.
Now, if anyone still dares to question the quality of the prequels’ scenario, let him speak out!

As a last word, remember that Rick McCallum himself, the producer of the prequel trilogy, has recently declared that even he didn’t know what was the significance of the disappearing Jedi, and that Lucas wouldn’t tell him a word of it before Episode III. If this theory proves right, you will be able to tell your grandchildren that you learned this first on SWU! :o)

JediBendu
07-18-2002, 07:53 PM
I like it :cool:

There is definitely somthing pivotal surrounding the after life in Star Wars. GL seems to be alluding to it though in all the films thus far, rather than coming out and declaring it.
Question is, has this been GL's intention since the 70s or is he trying to weave it into the fabric now?

Rogue_0009
07-18-2002, 08:13 PM
Dude, that is brilliant

Obidobi
07-18-2002, 08:46 PM
Good good very good!!
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

Khayman
07-19-2002, 08:42 AM
If this is wrong i'll eat my hat....first i'll buy one , then i'll eat it

tunafishman
07-19-2002, 10:25 AM
That's a great theory. I like it because of the way it explains Obi-wan's inability to be with Luke when he faces Vader and why the Emperor doesn't feel Luke's presence on Endor. Those were two parts of the OT that I always wondered about, and I had pretty vague answers for. This theory gives a must better answer that should fit through all six films.

As for whether GL planned this from the beginning back in the 70s - does it really matter? If he had planned everything from the beginning and brought it to a studio, they would have said no way, you can't make a six (or at the time, nine) part series, you only have one movie to your credit. So he made the one (and if you know they story, he almost didn't make that as is) and didn't REALLY think about the earlier stuff. It would have been nice if he had written it all out, then things might flow a little smoother and people would not have as many problems, but maybe not. The series belongs to GL, both legally and artisticly (sp?). If he changes stuff, that's his choice. It would be nice, for nostalgia reasons, to make the original original trilogy available, but otherwise GL is gonna do what GL is gonna do.

Martini
07-19-2002, 10:39 AM
Wow, thats alot. and all i gotta say to all of this is.............."YOU GUYS ARE THINKING WAYYY TOO MUCH INTO THESE MOVIES!!!!!"

Look, Lucas doesnt have to explain himself this in-depth because the normal movie-goer/star wars fan isnt this much into the films. I bet if you ask someone who saw the movie once or twice, they probably dont even remember hearing Qui-Gons voice in AOTC. Also, dont think too much into this whole reappearing Jedi trick. Yea i bet we'll see why Qui-Gon didnt disappear and maybe it will be a surprise. But dont go off thinking stupid crap that Anakin will be able to bring people back from the dead. Thats just a lame theory and GL would never use it cause its stupid and non-Star Wars. Also, dont think too much about how jedi ghosts cant appear in front of the Dark Side. We dont know this! yea Obi-Wan said he wouldnt interfer in TESB, but thats probably because he wanted luke to fight vader on his own. think of it as a trail, and it was! Also, yea i really dont think GL intended all of this to happen and anything that was said in ANH doesnt hold true because he wrote that and only that. Then after it became a massive hit, he wrote the other films. So you really cant base a whole lot off of ANH. Only thing we might be able to see if Vader being a great pilot again and him giving up his lightsaber. hell those might not even happen because the average star wars fan wont even notice these things. just think about it, ill say about 40% of people who have seen star wars dont even know that Palpatine is Sidious. Hell, even some semi-star wars fans thought that Jango Fett was Boba Fett from the OT. Thats just cause they dont pick up every stinkin' line in the movie. thats all i gotta say as why not to think too much into this story.

you guys have gone way to far in thinking what the next movie will bring. its sad

Javen
07-20-2002, 12:31 AM
I agree Martini,why would this all be this complicated when GL has made Star Wars mostly for kids.I mean what all was said up there is practicaly a Novel and plain off the deep end.
Besides the reappearing/disappearing thing I will bet will be something so simple that most people will hit there selves in the head cause it was simple,GL said it was a plot point and sets up EP3. Anyway you guys just about wrote the Bible on the freaking force,man get real.......

LordTyranus
07-20-2002, 02:10 AM
While yes Star Wars films are meant for kids, they are mostly targeted at adults. I love this theory, I myself was wondering what this whole "preventing people from dying" mumbo jumbo was about, and this theory explains it perfectly! I bet we'll see a ghost of Qui-Gon in episode 3, no ghosts before that statement, several after, Anakin is the chosen one.

JediBendu
07-20-2002, 03:14 AM
You can never read too much into Star Wars *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
Considering the metaphysical nature of the Force and how it's obviously a personal belief GL's trying to get out to people, discussions on life, death and the Force is quite natural.

There's also the quote from sw.com databank on Yoda:

...but the very nature of death itself was now unclear to the wise old master. While meditating, Yoda had felt a traumatic event befall young Anakin Skywalker. At that very moment, he also heard the voice of Qui-Gon Jinn, a Jedi Master slain a decade previous. It was impossible for a Jedi to retain his identity after becoming one with the Force, yet he had heard it.


I'm looking forward to finding out.

darth barf
07-20-2002, 05:47 AM
First of all I would like to say that it is very good theory that is presented here. I throw props out to such a ingenious idea. So what is the problem Martini? I mean if it is so stupid then why reply? Although SW is geared toward children to some degree it would be foolish to ignore the fact that Lucas does tip his hat toward the more adult or hard core fan out there. To say that this theory is without merit does a disservice to the more cerebrically inclined who have followed the saga from the beginning. It does seem to answer ?'s for those that enjoy the saga for more then lightsabre duels and blasters (although that is a big part of the fun). Yes we could a life but until the series truly ends let us enjoy the speculation and thrill of guessing what it could be. I've been waiting 24 yrs to find out what the hell this all about, so don't rain on anyones parade (lol). P.S your post was sad Martini!!!! Just being juvenille.

Jedi Terri An' Junn
07-20-2002, 07:07 PM
This is my first post, I've just got connected at home after reading various posts on the site in the last few weeks in work. It's a shame that I felt the need to post on a sour note.
I've followed the SW films, books, games, interviews etc for twenty+ years. I love the fan specualtion on your site and agree with Darth Barf that we should make the most of the time we have left before GL wraps it up. At the same time I am very cynical about GL and the financial facotrs behind SW and how much is planned ahead etc. So Martini's point has merit too. Can we find a balance?

Hope I've not made enemies with this!

Saranac
07-20-2002, 09:55 PM
This explains some.

But there are still questions

Lord_Floyd
07-20-2002, 09:57 PM
Nice Theory MRHA, think too muck or not it was a nice read.
http://www.napsterites.net/underground/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

JediBendu
07-21-2002, 05:41 AM
One thing I noticed today regarding Qui-Gon's 'Anakin, Anakin' dialogue - there was a physical reaction from Yoda as soon as he heard it. He looked a bit shocked even.

In terms of child/adult audience - it's fun to listen to the crowd and see the different parts kids and adult laugh at or get excited for. ATOC is going to leave a lasting impression on kids, I wonder if it'll be the same as the original SW?

Handothrawn
07-21-2002, 12:46 PM
I posted something like this about a month back, but it was no where near as in-depth as this. Way to think MRHA.

Darth Whaler
07-21-2002, 01:59 PM
Wow. Great theory. I'm very impressed. It certainly has made me think. You just might have hit the nail right on the head.

As for us posters thinking too much into Star Wars movies...sites like these are created for people who like to think about Star Wars and discuss it. If we didn't analyze, critique, etc. there would be no galacticsenate.com. Everyone has hobbies and passions. Star Wars is our passion and if it is not one of yours then perhaps you stumbled onto the wrong web site.

Jedi Luke
07-30-2002, 04:42 AM
Nice write-up on your theory.

It has definately made me think about the OT in a different light. Meditate, on this, I will.

Darth Badly
07-30-2002, 08:35 AM
MRHA QUOTE:Now, if anyone still dares to question the quality of the prequels’ scenario, let him speak out! END QUOTE.


Sorry MRHA - but I don't buy that at all. It's an interesting read, but it's also a lot of old nonsense trying to paper over the cracks that Uncle George has left in his own story.

I won't buy any theory that has at its centre the idea or notion at Anakin is a god or is devine. This utter tosh about him being a "virgin birth" in TPM was one of the most insulting things in the entire film. Notice how it was quickly and quietly dropped from Attack of the Clowns. It manages to insult and belittle just about anyone who believes in any religion around the world.

Look, let's be clear. When George started the original trilogy in the 1970s Luke was supposed to be the everyman hero. The unimportant farm kid that suddenly finds himself having an interesting life and war beyond even his own hopes and dreams. All the rest has been grafted on afterwards.

The god stuff is terrible. So are you saying that in the Star Wars universe there's no such thing as heaven? Ghosts? (ie normal non-Jedi ghosts) and that when anyone dies unless they are loved by Anakin / Luke they don't survive death as an individual in any form. Nonsense.

If Obi Wan's continuation as a ghost/voice is due to Luke's love for him (even though they've just met) then how come Padme who is loved far more by Anakin (the original "god") as you say, then why doesn't she pop up as a ghost? He loves her more than anyone.

If you wanna theory to explain why Obi Wan's body dissappears etc but Liam Nelson does'n't: how about this.

Let's go for something simply.

When Liam dies in TPM the good side of the force is strong and he is absorbed into it. When Yoda hears him in AOTC, the good side is becoming weaker and is out of balance and so his voice can be heard as an individual.

By the time that Obi Wan dies, the good side is so weak (as the Emperor has been in control of the galaxy for decades) that a strong Jedi like him can retain his personality and form after death. Same thing applies to Vader in ROTJ once her has come back to the good side. There. Nice and simply.

Let's have no more of the Anakin is a god stuff please. it's rubbish and won't be featuring in Ep III - as it went down like a lead balloon in TPM and Uncle george wants those dollars in his back pocket.

I love you all.

Senator Theant
07-30-2002, 04:38 PM
The article certainly made for some good readin. Whether or not its deep in thought . . . well it all depends whether or not you want to think deeply. I appluad the way the theory was presented, concise and to the point and without losing effect. I thought the question of why didnt Palpatine sense Luke in ESB was bothering me, and this is the first time Ive heard a pretty good answer. I am still a little confused as to how Anakin and Luke supposedly achieved balance between the LF and UF. Luke was the personification of the LF--as the theory explains--when he refuses to sacrfice his friends to the Empire in ESB. Does Anakin personify the UF because he is the Force, manifested and in physical form? I would appreciate it if someone could clarify this point for me.

NIGHTTRAVELER
07-30-2002, 06:22 PM
VERY INTERESTING.

I DO, HOWEVER, DISAGREE WITH ONE POINT.

I DONT THINK THAT THE GHOST "CANNOT" APPEAR IN THE PRESENCE OF THE DARK SIDE. I THINK RATHER THAT THEY CHOOSE NOT TO, OUT OF FEAR THAT THE SITH WILL DISCOVER THE ABILITY TO EMERGE FROM DEATH. IF THIS WERE TO OCCUR, THAN BALANCE IN THE FORCE WOULD BECOME IMPOSSIBLE. :saber:

Kit
07-31-2002, 12:27 AM
Cool theory! I'll give you a hand on that!

Also, GL wrote (techniqually) all the movies at the same time. The orginal trilogy was a full screenplay with 3 different acts. Each act became the ANH, ESB, ROTJ. Along with these he wrote a rough draft of what happened before then. (A&E biography)

maddog62
07-31-2002, 01:24 AM
AWSOME. JUST DAMB AWSOME. Not exactly what I believe or am willing to except but just amazing the ability to inturperite and articulate back to us. I would say I agree with about 90+% of what you wrote and its nice to see that you could break it down shotgun style for everyone. Once again I don't think you got all down but you took alot of the words out of my head and desribed things beautiflly. I think some how the ability to talk to Ghosts and dissapear comes from the darkside and the only reason that Yoda and Obi-Wan figure this out is due to the connection to Anikin without him knowing they are probing him thruogh the force. Some how Palpatine is passed the knowledge of the Sith. Possibly by a darkside ghost??????? Not to take away from your post, maybe you should rewrite it again and call it Ballence of the Force for dummies (you can have that) and try to simplify it in laymans turms for all the Darth Badliy's out there. I can not stop saying WOW great job. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

BothanJinx
07-31-2002, 05:19 AM
Very thought provoking inded! Makes me think about the grand scheme of things with a new found vision of sorts. I am one to look for holes in any theory and I just cant find one here!! I cant wait for Episode 3!!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

Darth Badly
07-31-2002, 05:39 AM
MADDOG QUOTE: Not to take away from your post, maybe you should rewrite it again and call it Ballence of the Force for dummies (you can have that) and try to simplify it in laymans turms for all the Darth Badliy's out there. END QUOTE.

Thanks for that Maddog but I understood the idea perfectly it's just that it's a load of tosh. Wait until episode III comes out there'll be nothing explained in these terms.

How can you swallow the Anakin as Jesus Christ stuff? It's bollocks and was even dropped from Ep 2.

maddog62
07-31-2002, 09:09 AM
Son of sons droped from the AOTC for a reason? YES, to end the story in EP#3 give GL some credit he has working at this for over 25 years. I in fact feel that he is a very smart man and even Speilburg himself wishes he could tell stories as great as GL. Made for KIDS? NO, so made for Adults? No. Made for the whole family able to be enjoyed by many levels of thought. Not evey thing is Black and white in the star wars saga but the basic idea is simple enough for a 6th grade to enjoy.

Darth Badly
07-31-2002, 10:33 AM
Maddog - you're way off base here. It's not good writing just to drop an entire idea for a film just because you wanna end the story in Ep III. If Lucus wanted to do that he needed to keep the son of sons/virgin birth subplot bubbling along at least a little bit in Clowns. Instead there was not one mention of that nonsense. The ideas got such a bad reaction when they appeared in TPM that he dropped them.

Lucus has indeed been working at SW on and off for 25 years and it's a shame that he didn't / hasn't paid a little more attention to his own story.

As for him being a better director/storyteller than (I assume you mean) Steven Spielberg. You're kidding. Go and see Minority Report, a well-crafted, tightly written, pacey, terrific thriller and then compare that with the lame comic strip which is Attack of the Clowns.

maddog62
07-31-2002, 11:51 AM
Saw it liked it but not SW

Darth Badly
07-31-2002, 12:02 PM
Fair enough, Maddog.

But I really don't think Mr Spielberg spends his weekend wringing his hands and wishing to turn into George Lucus.

bodhisattva yoda
07-31-2002, 07:12 PM
those that can't see the profound mythological and spiritual implications of star wars are really missing out on the star wars experience. the article seems dead-on.

sbaxter
07-31-2002, 08:01 PM
>It's not good writing just to drop an entire idea for a film just because you wanna end the story in Ep III. *If Lucus wanted to do that he needed to keep the son of sons/virgin birth subplot bubbling along at least a little bit in Clowns.

Why? He has another movie to bring it up, if he considers doing so even necessary. He has repeatedly stated that he intends the saga to be viewed as a whole after it is finished.

>The ideas got such a bad reaction when they appeared in TPM that he dropped them.

The midichlorians rubbed some folks the wrong way, but I don't remember much being made about the virgin birth. You say the above as if it is fact, but there is no proof it has been dropped just because it doesn't get mentioned in the latest film.

I would suggest that perhaps _you_ don't like it, and _you_ wanted it dropped -- so you have interpreted it not being mentioned in AOTC as it having been dropped.

Beyond that, does anyone even know about that part other than possibly Cliegg Lars? Perhaps Anakin knows, but I doubt it. Shmi only told Qui-Gon to our knowledge, and there is no proof he told anyone else. Perhaps it is a part of the "prophecy of the Chosen One," but if so, I'd bet very few know that Anakin is suspected of being the one who will fullfill that prophecy, and almost certainly Anakin himself doesn't know.

Qapla'

SSB

maddog62
08-01-2002, 12:08 PM
In USC they all did. Ever bad thing you here about GL is like a basket ball fan talking BS about Michael Jordan they just have nothing to staND ON.

WhatMeWookie
08-01-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by maddog62@Aug. 01 2002 - 11:08
In USC they all did. Ever bad thing you here about GL is like a basket ball fan talking BS about Michael Jordan they just have nothing to staND ON.
Rechid is spelt wretched

Villany is spelt villainy

Dictionary is spelt d-i-c-t-i-o-n-a-r-y

maddog62
08-02-2002, 02:00 AM
thanks yoo pall

Darth Vegas
09-29-2003, 06:38 AM
I think this thread could use a good bump