Survey: Immigration

[dorsk o1]

would you move to a different country and what do you think about people moving into yours?

[Darth Fabulous]

I think people who spell immigration (or emigration because you are really talking about both) wrong should be thrown out of the country.

[Lord Rocha]

I think that the inmigration-emigration movement is important at least for this country especially when the foreign minorities are used as cheap workers and their lack of opportunities to progress is minimal or is blocked by a xenophobic society as this.

After all the immigrants or illegals as they are known make all the "dirty or cheap" work of this country...without them ...Oh my I cant imagine the consequences on the luxurious life of many in this country.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Apr 23 2003, 02:57 PM
I think people who spell immigration (or emigration because you are really talking about both) wrong should be thrown out of the country.
I dont see any good on doing that...half America would be expelled of its own territory if it were by mispelling bad words.

[nerfer]

<span style="color:c1007e"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms">
I have no problem with it. Although having gone thru the process to be with my sweetie, I do have a problem with people who don't do it thru the proper channels.

If I had to pay out a fortune, go thru the indignity of two medical exams, provide x-rays and blood samples, have interviews, fingerprints done etc etc then so should everyone else!!!!

Peeps who are found to have entered and stayed illegally should be banned forever!!!! Cheaters are bad!</span></span>

[Darth Fabulous]

Anyway, I think the borders should be shut. Whoever wants to leave here can, and people visiting from other countries is fine, but no immigrants. They come here illegally, they work here illegally, and when they get here they mulitply like rabbits and decent tax-paying citizens like myself have to support their poor asses. Did you know that in the U.S. the population growth from immigration is greater than the population growth from native births?

[Lord Rocha]

Yes, I know.

The Sum of all the fears of the Republican politicians...its a reality.

Soon the minorities are going to be represented in the Senate and the Congress in such numbers (not very big but at least a neat and influencial one) that the gap between the majority and the minorities is going to crumble.

[Darth Fabulous]

It's not about minorities gaining power for me, it's about population control and decreasing poverty. We don't need a massive influx of unproductive people.

[Lord Rocha]

Unproductive people. Lets star by the majority then.

The problem with the minorities is that they are bad represented, they have bad paid jobs and the schools were they study are inferior to the national standard.

But we can see many good-for-nothing white people in the welfare lines too and too many people for my opinion.

At least the minorities are working at McDonalds, factories or at the fields but the Majority thinks that is too little or bad for them.

[Darth Fabulous]

Your incoherent posts astound me.

Anyway, I'm not complaining that they don't work, they just fill lower level jobs and have low incomes. They create a greater burden on the welfare system, which shouldn't exist anyway. The vast majority of immigrants can't even support themselves so yes, they are unproductive. They are also solely responisble for the overpopulation of the country. Without immigration, the U.S. population growth rate is almost exactly at the replacement level, where each two adults produce an average of two offspring, just enough to replace themselves. This causes zero population growth, which is good for the nation.

[Lord Rocha]

Its so sad...first America follows the Japanese Standard for Education that now is been rejected in the same Japan .

And now its following the European population growth programs ? That is really sad that its following a system that is now under attack in the same European continent and that has lowered the economic and commercial power of the European powers. They now are seeing how their population is older and older and older...more people retired...more welfare ?

Growth is good but not in excese and I dont think the things are so bad really now, at least the minorities are filling all those jobs no one liked and there are many vacant.

[Tovor]

I started a whole long discussion about this subject on the previous Jedinet Council message board, so I have a lot to say on the subject, but I won't due to time issues. Basically, we have to remember that this is America, the land of immigration, the melting pot of the world, bring us your weary, your tired, your sick, ect. ect., yada yada yada. The vast majority of us are decendants of immigrants, so if immigration to America had not been the riding factor in the creation and growth of this nation, none of us would be here. (On a seperate note, I have heard so many people say that the Israelis stole the land from the Palestinians and thus Israel should be considered an illegal state. Ok, fine, let's tell the Israelis to disregard their nation and give the land back to the Palestinians--as soon as we give this land back to the Native American Indians our forefathers stole this land from. That's right, we live on stolen land and the dried blood of a conquered people. That and immigration is what made this nation possible.) But a lot of immigrants (and illegal aliens as well) live here and don't bother to learn the English language. In my old store, a large portion of my usual customers were Mexicans, and many of them were illegal aliens. I know this because the construction companies and landscaping companies most of them worked for were also my usual customers. Okay, fine. Many of them were nice people, and friendly too, but most of them didn't speak a word of English. I worked that store for over 4 years, and the same people still didn't speak a word of English after all that time. I also had a lot of Brazilian customers, and most of them spoke good English, or enough to communicate with others who didn't speak Portuguese. All throughout south Florida (that's my turf) the rising numbers of Spanish-only speaking people is rising to alarming degrees. I so much love the Spanish language but I cannot speak it. I really don't have time to learn it. But why would I have to? I live in an English-speaking country, don't I? I so much love the Spanish culture (which DarthLara can attest to.) and I like having Cubans and Puerto Ricans and south Americans add to the south Florida sociatal atmosphere, and I don't like people who talk down about the latinos living here.
The main character, by the way, of my completed novel ("DH"-abbreviated) is a young girl of Cuban and French heritage who lives in Fort Lauderdale, and the story is about a portion of her life and those friends whose lives she enhances. One of the nemesis factors in the story is her abusive step-father who despises Cubans and immigrants in general. What I am saying is that I am not trying to be politically correct here when I say how much I like the Cuban (and others) presence in my neck of the woods. In fact, I could give a sheet about polital correctness. But nevertheless. regardless of all that, I am so frustrated to no end over the Spanish speakers who don't try to learn English, and expect everybody else to figure out what they are saying. I have had tourists from Japan, Germany, Saudi-Arabia, and other places, who didn't speak a word of English yet we figured out how to communicate with each other and I was able to sell them what they wanted, fix what was wrong, help them with what they needed, and send them on their way to enjoy their stay. Yet, I deal with so many (so many you couldn't imagine) Spanish speaking folks who don't make any effort to learn how to communicate, and stand there and stare at me without trying in the least to point, gesture, sound-out, or express what they need in any way other than to babble on even after I say "No comprende espanol!" But not only do we have that situation constantly here, but also Hatians and some others who make absolutely no effort to learn the nation's language or in the least to connect the dots and physically express what they want or need.
Ya know, a year ago I stopped in a gas station on a busy main road in Hialea. I don't even know if I spelled that right. I could check a map and make an effort to communicate this story properly, but it is enough for me to say it was in the north Miami area. I had a problem with the credit card device and I asked the woman behind the counter a question.
"No habla englase."
Great. "Where is your manager?"
Manager comes out..."No habla englase."
Damn, where is the owner? He comes out of the office and says "No habla englase."
This is what we deal with down here every day. You can say, "Tovor, just learn Spanish, and Creole, and whatever language you have to, and you won't have a problem!"
I say, to hell with that. If I move to another nation, I guarantee that I will try my hardest to learn the language there and communicate with the folks there in a proper manner. But this is here, not there. So I say,
Welcome to America, the land of immigration. bring your culture, your diversity, your heritage with you and be proud of it. But learn to speak English or get the f**k out of here.

[Lord Rocha]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

I agree that many irresponsible immigrants dont want to speak english or at least try to speak it , but America must understand the following :

Even if you dont like it this country is changing for good or for evil and you can stop the inmigrants but there are so many inside the "homeland" that the change is going to happen one day or another in a long and maybe painful process.

[Tovor]

The title has been fixed. Carry on.

[Lord Rocha]

Now its better, the other word sounded weird...

[Krogenar]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think that the inmigration-emigration movement is important at least for this country especially when the foreign minorities are used as cheap workers and their lack of opportunities to progress is minimal or is blocked by a xenophobic society as this.[/b][/quote]

That's an incredibly cynical and misinformed opinion. Most Americans are the descendants of immigrants, so, to say that we're a 'xenophobic' society is silly. Immigrants of every nationality have come to America over the past decades and made a better life for themselves. My grandfather made deliveries in New York City - he drove a truck around town, and carried cans of soda down into cellars. Today, my family runs its own business.

Immigrants are the lifeblood of America. Our population doesn't stagnate like those of 'Old Europe' - we're constantly getting a fresh new crop of Americans who are 'hungry' for a better life. Many come from countries where they don't have a chance at a better life. There are illegal immigrants who come to America, work menial labor jobs, and then return to their country of origin where the exchange rate for American money is much higher. These is especially true for Mexicans. They cross the border, work for a few days, and then take a bus back over the border with money thats a lot more valuable than the peso. To them, the relationship is profitable, so who's to complain?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>After all the immigrants or illegals as they are known make all the "dirty or cheap" work of this country...without them ...Oh my I cant imagine the consequences on the luxurious life of many in this country.[/b][/quote]

If the work is so horrible, and the pay is so horrible ... why do they come here? Is it because they like to do menial labor? No. They come because its their best opportunity. Which means that their country of origin offers them less opportunity. Your statement amounts to class warfare griping.

In light of the terrorist threat, I think all our borders should be sealed, and greater scrutiny should be paid to potential immigrants from states that sponsor terrorism. Illegal immigrants should be fingerprinted and deported immediately. If you want to come to America, do it legally, just like my ancestors. Oh, and if you say, "Americans are just a bunch of luxury-loving pigs!" during the immigration interview, you should be fingerprinted and deported as well. Immigrants should behave as though they are entering someone's home: my home. Show some respect.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Lord Rocha@Apr 23 2003, 08:02 PM
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

I agree that many irresponsible immigrants dont want to speak english or at least try to speak it , but America must understand the following :

Even if you dont like it this country is changing for good or for evil and you can stop the inmigrants but there are so many inside the "homeland" that the change is going to happen one day or another in a long and maybe painful process.
We should declare that the national language is English.

[Rojo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>the welfare system, which shouldn't exist anyway.[/b][/quote]

I'm sorry, did you just say that, or was I hearing things? I suppose that's another argument.

Anyway, I have no problem with legal immigration, it creates a more interesting and multicultural society.

As for illegal immigrants, I can't help but feel for them as they obviously have a reason to try to enter Britain, Australia or the US, looking for a better life. Those three countries have gone into Iraq (you were waiting for that weren't you) supposedly to liberate it's people, but we don't care about them and illegal immigrants from other oppressed countries when they can't take it any more and try to find a better life for themselves. Illegal immigrants should be found and made to apply for citizenship, not be deported immediately back to where they just ran away from in terror (in Britain that means France, as most of our immigrants cross into Britain from there style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ). Closing your borders is xenophobic IMO.

Immigration does however create racial tensions (evident in Britain at least), fuelling the arguments of white supremacists and other groups. That is why all immigration issues should be dealt with swiftly and fairly. All immigrants should have to learn the culture and principle language of the country they are immigrating to, in my opinion living in their own enclosed groups and not speaking English does not help immigrants. If I went to Pakistan etc. they would expect me to respect their culture and I would out of courtesy try to pick up some of their language.

Well, that's my two cents on that.

[kopernikuz]

Originally posted by Lord Rocha@Apr 23 2003, 06:22 PM
Yes, I know.

The Sum of all the fears of the Republican politicians...its a reality.

Soon the minorities are going to be represented in the Senate and the Congress in such numbers (not very big but at least a neat and influencial one) that the gap between the majority and the minorities is going to crumble.
Boy is this misinformed. No flame, just an observation.

Just recently, President George W. Bush Jr, a republican, nominated what would have been the first Hispanic American to the Supreme Court. Interesting eh? Who opposed it? Fervently? Who stalled and hum-hawed the entire time, desperately trying to find a reason to refuse it?

Democrats.

Now don't get me wrong... I'm no huge fan of any party. But I'm less of a fan of Democrats because I hear them cry for the impoverished and downtrodden and the minorites... while at the same time making strides at every turn to opress them further. It's not just this guy. And I figured out why. If minorities begin to gain power and are no longer in need of help, the Democrats on the whole will not have anyone to represent. Example: Jesse Jackson, in my opinion, is one of the most glaring obstacles to racial equality I've ever seen. He takes on cases to promote equality, and then turns around and does things to send it two steps backwards. If racial equality existed in America... Jesse Jackson wouldn't be able to profit from the inequality. And that's what I see driving the majority of the Democratic party... a vocal stance for the little people, while all the time working very hard to keep them in their place... because if the little people ever become big people... they can't profit from them anymore. And recently we've heard them cry for human rights, but not support a war that restored them to an oppressed country.

Hispanic Americans just became the largest minority in America... I hope they're prepared to be treated like second-class citizens by the Democrats just as the African-Americans have been for so many years.

If I was Hispanic American, I would be FURIOUS with the Democratic party for the way they pigeonholed that poor guy. There was absolutely no reason for it... other than the partisan efforts to continue to opress the people they claim to be trying to help.

[Darth Fabulous]

Originally posted by Rojo@Apr 23 2003, 09:33 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>the welfare system, which shouldn't exist anyway.

I'm sorry, did you just say that, or was I hearing things? I suppose that's another argument.[/b][/quote]

Yeah I said it.

[Rojo]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous+Apr 24 2003, 11:53 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darth Fabulous @ Apr 24 2003, 11:53 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rojo@Apr 23 2003, 09:33 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>the welfare system, which shouldn't exist anyway.

I'm sorry, did you just say that, or was I hearing things? I suppose that's another argument.[/b][/quote]

Yeah I said it. [/b][/quote]
Oh, OK. That's an interesting point of view, IMO.

[Brian]

Originally posted by Lord Rocha@Apr 23 2003, 07:22 PM
Soon the minorities are going to be represented in the Senate and the Congress in such numbers (not very big but at least a neat and influencial one) that the gap between the majority and the minorities is going to crumble.
And this is a problem, because........?

[Brian]

Originally posted by Tovor@Apr 23 2003, 07:58 PM
I started a whole long discussion about this subject on the previous Jedinet Council message board, so I have a lot to say on the subject, but I won't due to time issues. Basically, we have to remember that this is America, the land of immigration, the melting pot of the world, bring us your weary, your tired, your sick, ect. ect., yada yada yada. The vast majority of us are decendants of immigrants, so if immigration to America had not been the riding factor in the creation and growth of this nation, none of us would be here. (On a seperate note, I have heard so many people say that the Israelis stole the land from the Palestinians and thus Israel should be considered an illegal state. Ok, fine, let's tell the Israelis to disregard their nation and give the land back to the Palestinians--as soon as we give this land back to the Native American Indians our forefathers stole this land from. That's right, we live on stolen land and the dried blood of a conquered people. That and immigration is what made this nation possible.) But a lot of immigrants (and illegal aliens as well) live here and don't bother to learn the English language. In my old store, a large portion of my usual customers were Mexicans, and many of them were illegal aliens. I know this because the construction companies and landscaping companies most of them worked for were also my usual customers. Okay, fine. Many of them were nice people, and friendly too, but most of them didn't speak a word of English. I worked that store for over 4 years, and the same people still didn't speak a word of English after all that time. I also had a lot of Brazilian customers, and most of them spoke good English, or enough to communicate with others who didn't speak Portuguese. All throughout south Florida (that's my turf) the rising numbers of Spanish-only speaking people is rising to alarming degrees. I so much love the Spanish language but I cannot speak it. I really don't have time to learn it. But why would I have to? I live in an English-speaking country, don't I? I so much love the Spanish culture (which DarthLara can attest to.) and I like having Cubans and Puerto Ricans and south Americans add to the south Florida sociatal atmosphere, and I don't like people who talk down about the latinos living here.
The main character, by the way, of my completed novel ("DH"-abbreviated) is a young girl of Cuban and French heritage who lives in Fort Lauderdale, and the story is about a portion of her life and those friends whose lives she enhances. One of the nemesis factors in the story is her abusive step-father who despises Cubans and immigrants in general. What I am saying is that I am not trying to be politically correct here when I say how much I like the Cuban (and others) presence in my neck of the woods. In fact, I could give a sheet about polital correctness. But nevertheless. regardless of all that, I am so frustrated to no end over the Spanish speakers who don't try to learn English, and expect everybody else to figure out what they are saying. I have had tourists from Japan, Germany, Saudi-Arabia, and other places, who didn't speak a word of English yet we figured out how to communicate with each other and I was able to sell them what they wanted, fix what was wrong, help them with what they needed, and send them on their way to enjoy their stay. Yet, I deal with so many (so many you couldn't imagine) Spanish speaking folks who don't make any effort to learn how to communicate, and stand there and stare at me without trying in the least to point, gesture, sound-out, or express what they need in any way other than to babble on even after I say "No comprende espanol!" But not only do we have that situation constantly here, but also Hatians and some others who make absolutely no effort to learn the nation's language or in the least to connect the dots and physically express what they want or need.
Ya know, a year ago I stopped in a gas station on a busy main road in Hialea. I don't even know if I spelled that right. I could check a map and make an effort to communicate this story properly, but it is enough for me to say it was in the north Miami area. I had a problem with the credit card device and I asked the woman behind the counter a question.
"No habla englase."
Great. "Where is your manager?"
Manager comes out..."No habla englase."
Damn, where is the owner? He comes out of the office and says "No habla englase."
This is what we deal with down here every day. You can say, "Tovor, just learn Spanish, and Creole, and whatever language you have to, and you won't have a problem!"
I say, to hell with that. If I move to another nation, I guarantee that I will try my hardest to learn the language there and communicate with the folks there in a proper manner. But this is here, not there. So I say,
Welcome to America, the land of immigration. bring your culture, your diversity, your heritage with you and be proud of it. But learn to speak English or get the f**k out of here.
Somebody's on the soap box...

[DblDwn]

I have one HUGE problem with the immigration laws in this country.

All 18 year old Swedish blondes should get first priority. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Rojo]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Apr 24 2003, 02:10 PM
I have one HUGE problem with the immigration laws in this country.

All 18 year old Swedish blondes should get first priority. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
What has nobody tought of that before, that's genius.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by O-B-GATES+Apr 23 2003, 08:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(O-B-GATES @ Apr 23 2003, 08:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lord Rocha@Apr 23 2003, 07:22 PM
Soon the minorities are going to be represented in the Senate and the Congress in such numbers (not very big but at least a neat and influencial one) that the gap between the majority and the minorities is going to crumble.
And this is a problem, because........? [/b][/quote]
That is NOT a problem, its a reality.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by kopernikuz+Apr 23 2003, 06:48 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kopernikuz @ Apr 23 2003, 06:48 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lord Rocha@Apr 23 2003, 06:22 PM
Yes, I know.

The Sum of all the fears of the Republican politicians...its a reality.

Soon the minorities are going to be represented in the Senate and the Congress in such numbers (not very big but at least a neat and influencial one) that the gap between the majority and the minorities is going to crumble.
Boy is this misinformed. No flame, just an observation.

Just recently, President George W. Bush Jr, a republican, nominated what would have been the first Hispanic American to the Supreme Court. Interesting eh? Who opposed it? Fervently? Who stalled and hum-hawed the entire time, desperately trying to find a reason to refuse it?

Democrats.

[/b][/quote]
Yeah, Mr Estrada another pawn of the puritan members of the Republican party ?

He has denied his own heritage just to gain power, whealt and prestige. Another conservative in the Supreme Court, no thanks.

The Germans are not going to prefer Hitler to anyone else just because he is German.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by Krogenar@Apr 23 2003, 06:15 PM


Most Americans are the descendants of immigrants, so, to say that we're a 'xenophobic' society is silly. Immigrants of every nationality have come to America over the past decades and made a better life for themselves.

These is especially true for Mexicans. They cross the border, work for a few days, and then take a bus back over the border with money thats a lot more valuable than the peso. To them, the relationship is profitable, so who's to complain?



If the work is so horrible, and the pay is so horrible ... why do they come here? Is it because they like to do menial labor? No. They come because its their best opportunity. Which means that their country of origin offers them less opportunity. Your statement amounts to class warfare griping.

In light of the terrorist threat, I think all our borders should be sealed, and greater scrutiny should be paid to potential immigrants from states that sponsor terrorism.
The American society is xenophobic by Nature. Examples :

The Colons fearing the new German colonizers previous and after the American Revolution. They thought the Germans were going to convert into a majority. And of course they mixed...no problem.

The Americans fearing the Irishman, the same story and many Americans have Irish blood inside them

Then the Italians , Central Europeans and other Cacucassians... again the same story.

But then a new "wave" made by Chinese, Japanese and then Hispanics. New immigrants that escape their desperate situation and of course they dont want to end their traditions, their religion ,their language or mix with the "Americans".

Here is the fundamental problem of this immigration...they dont want to mix with the already Americans or at least use their English language and American traditions...they keep their Japanese, Mexican, etc. Traditions.

The Dollar is not very "valious" , at least at Mexico. The rate is 10 pesos= 1 dollar or .10 cents of a Dollar are equal to 1 Mexican Peso.

The great majority of these immigrants were part of the Mexican Lower Class. These have little educationa and instruction and try to pass to the US for any work but many times this kind of work is even infra-human for such developed country the US is. We cant have standards of the Thirld World...after all this is the all mighty US !

There are none Rich Mexicans trying to pass the border and even if they tried to pass the border station they could pretend to be Americans due to their skin and Caucassian ascendency...many of them with such last names as Robinson, Fox, Walthers, etc...

Terrorist Threat...ok there is a threat but this country is clearly paranoic and now has evolved from the "victim" to the "lethal victimizer" in the eyes of the rest of the World, the Media Bubble doesnt affect the rest of the World as here.

Why do you thing the world hates the US ?

Because we are a democracy ?

Of course not !

We always fight for our interests in every way, attacking other countries and putting our noses inside the conflict of another country, all this is resume as "Yankee Imperialism" by the Thirld World and Europe.

At least...if we are going to attack Syria or Iran lets have a nice prepared excuse not just "lethal weapons of mass destruction' that now dissapeard and the UN and the International Community is demanding to see

[Rojo]

Wow Rocha. You're on form today.

As nobody commented on my remarks and because I'm insecure enought to need acknowledgement, here they are again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Anyway, I have no problem with legal immigration, it creates a more interesting and multicultural society.

As for illegal immigrants, I can't help but feel for them as they obviously have a reason to try to enter Britain, Australia or the US, looking for a better life. Those three countries have gone into Iraq (you were waiting for that weren't you) supposedly to liberate it's people, but we don't care about them and illegal immigrants from other oppressed countries when they can't take it any more and try to find a better life for themselves. Illegal immigrants should be found and made to apply for citizenship, not be deported immediately back to where they just ran away from in terror (in Britain that means France, as most of our immigrants cross into Britain from there ). Closing your borders is xenophobic IMO.

Immigration does however create racial tensions (evident in Britain at least), fuelling the arguments of white supremacists and other groups. That is why all immigration issues should be dealt with swiftly and fairly. All immigrants should have to learn the culture and principle language of the country they are immigrating to, in my opinion living in their own enclosed groups and not speaking English does not help immigrants. If I went to Pakistan etc. they would expect me to respect their culture and I would out of courtesy try to pick up some of their language.

Well, that's my two cents on that.[/b][/quote]

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by Rojo@Apr 23 2003, 09:58 PM
Wow Rocha. You're on form today.

As nobody commented on my remarks and because I'm insecure enought to need acknowledgement, here they are again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Anyway, I have no problem with legal immigration, it creates a more interesting and multicultural society.

As for illegal immigrants, I can't help but feel for them as they obviously have a reason to try to enter Britain, Australia or the US, looking for a better life. Those three countries have gone into Iraq (you were waiting for that weren't you) supposedly to liberate it's people, but we don't care about them and illegal immigrants from other oppressed countries when they can't take it any more and try to find a better life for themselves. Illegal immigrants should be found and made to apply for citizenship, not be deported immediately back to where they just ran away from in terror (in Britain that means France, as most of our immigrants cross into Britain from there ). Closing your borders is xenophobic IMO.

Immigration does however create racial tensions (evident in Britain at least), fuelling the arguments of white supremacists and other groups. That is why all immigration issues should be dealt with swiftly and fairly. All immigrants should have to learn the culture and principle language of the country they are immigrating to, in my opinion living in their own enclosed groups and not speaking English does not help immigrants. If I went to Pakistan etc. they would expect me to respect their culture and I would out of courtesy try to pick up some of their language.

Well, that's my two cents on that. [/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ...I like to defend my point of view.

And I agree with that quote. The ilegals should be deported but not like dogs, why the American Media never shows the treatment to ilegals ?

Its so sad that the Media wants to give pink notes instead of the reality and all the conflicts the American interference is creating.

[Rojo]

Yes, poor innocent Iraqis are OK when a military campaign uses US tax money to save them, but not when they turn up on America's doorstep.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by Rojo@Apr 23 2003, 10:10 PM
Yes, poor innocent Iraqis are OK when a military campaign uses US tax money to save them, but not when they turn up on America's doorstep.
Very True.

I hope the Americans will never NEVER "liberate" Mexico....

[Darth Fabulous]

Originally posted by Lord Rocha+Apr 24 2003, 01:24 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lord Rocha @ Apr 24 2003, 01:24 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rojo@Apr 23 2003, 10:10 PM
Yes, poor innocent Iraqis are OK when a military campaign uses US tax money to save them, but not when they turn up on America's doorstep.
Very True.

I hope the Americans will never NEVER "liberate" Mexico.... [/b][/quote]
I don't think you have to worry about that, Mexico has very little of value that we would be interested in.

Why shouldn't illegals be treated poorly? They broke into our country and broke our laws. Would you have us cleaning them up, slapping a nice tux on them and treating them to a lovely six course meal? They should be dealt with as quickly and cheaply as possible, maybe we should charge Mexico a fee every time we have to deport another illegal so they will be motivated to take care of their own problem. If they didn't want to be treated this way, they should have stayed home. I feel for these people and the conditions the must live in within their own borders, but that is not the way to get escape it. Come here legally and there won't be a problem, try to create social change within your own country and there won't be a problem, but dammit stop cutting holes in our fences and coming in uninvited.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Rojo+Apr 23 2003, 10:05 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rojo @ Apr 23 2003, 10:05 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Apr 24 2003, 11:53 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Rojo@Apr 23 2003, 09:33 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>the welfare system, which shouldn't exist anyway.

I'm sorry, did you just say that, or was I hearing things? I suppose that's another argument.

Yeah I said it. [/b][/quote]
Oh, OK. That's an interesting point of view, IMO. [/b][/quote]
I tend to agree.

When my ancestors arrived from Italy and Ireland, they were required to show that they had a profession, a skill, before they would be allowed entrance to the country. This was done so that they wouldn't become an immediate burden to the rest of the nation.

That was a prudent decision 80 years ago, we should reinstate it now. The welfare system is a hindrance to immigrants, not a help.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Rojo@Apr 24 2003, 01:10 AM
Yes, poor innocent Iraqis are OK when a military campaign uses US tax money to save them, but not when they turn up on America's doorstep.
You mean, when they break our laws?

We came into their country to remove a tyrannical regime that oppressed them. We came to help them create a government that will rule through laws, not force.

The least that they could do is obey our laws when they enter our country. Don't you agree, Rojo? If you want to come into my home, my personal home, I have every right to either turn you away (I don't want any more guests right now, thanks), or make certain requests of you. I might ask that you take off your shoes, perhaps, or that you wipe your feet on the welcome mat.

If you decide, "To hell with you Krogenar! I want in!" and push past me, track crap all over my carpets, and start breaking my furniture - then I'm going to toss you out of my home forcibly.

Immigrants are potential guests.
America has every right to deny people entry, for whatever reason we deem necessary. NO ONE has a 'right' to come into America. If you want to come to America, come and obey the rules. Otherwise, expect to be tossed out permanently. There is a legal avenue for immigration. Those who start their relationship with America by breaking our laws are not potential Americans.

[Krogenar]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>As for illegal immigrants, I can't help but feel for them as they obviously have a reason to try to enter Britain, Australia or the US, looking for a better life. [/b][/quote]

I agree with you, Rojo. I feel for all immigrants - but when they enter illegally, they're breaking the laws of my country. I won't abide by that. If you fingerprint them, and send them back home, word will spread that it's not wise to break America's immigration laws. Then you'll fewer of them breaking the law, and more of them obeying the law.

Also, illegal immigrants aren't doing themselves any favors by breaking the law. Because of their illegality, they are forced to take jobs that are low-paying, since applying for a better job would require proof of their identity.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Illegal immigrants should be found and made to apply for citizenship, not be deported immediately back to where they just ran away from in terror (in Britain that means France, as most of our immigrants cross into Britain from there style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ). Closing your borders is xenophobic IMO.[/b][/quote]

They should be deported for breaking our laws. That's not xenophobic, that's prudent. To go back to my 'home' analogy, is it wise to leave the door to your house wide open? Would it be cruel to actually close the door, or require that certain basic standards of behavior be followed, in order to come inside?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Immigration does however create racial tensions (evident in Britain at least), fuelling the arguments of white supremacists and other groups.[/b][/quote]

That's an internal issue. Immigration has kept America's cultural and economic life robust. It shouldn't be ended, but it shouldn't be deregulated. If someone doesn't want anyone to emigrate to the U.S., they should move away - maybe to France.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If I went to Pakistan etc. they would expect me to respect their culture and I would out of courtesy try to pick up some of their language.[/b][/quote]

So we do agree. You also believe that there are some responsibilities that immigrants must shoulder, in order to come to any country. We should expect the same from people coming to America.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous+Apr 24 2003, 07:00 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darth Fabulous @ Apr 24 2003, 07:00 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Lord Rocha@Apr 24 2003, 01:24 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Rojo@Apr 23 2003, 10:10 PM
Yes, poor innocent Iraqis are OK when a military campaign uses US tax money to save them, but not when they turn up on America's doorstep.
Very True.

I hope the Americans will never NEVER "liberate" Mexico....
I don't think you have to worry about that, Mexico has very little of value that we would be interested in.

Why shouldn't illegals be treated poorly? They broke into our country and broke our laws. Would you have us cleaning them up, slapping a nice tux on them and treating them to a lovely six course meal? They should be dealt with as quickly and cheaply as possible, maybe we should charge Mexico a fee every time we have to deport another illegal so they will be motivated to take care of their own problem. If they didn't want to be treated this way, they should have stayed home. I feel for these people and the conditions the must live in within their own borders, but that is not the way to get escape it. Come here legally and there won't be a problem, try to create social change within your own country and there won't be a problem, but dammit stop cutting holes in our fences and coming in uninvited. [/b][/quote]
Maybe Mexico can charge the US for every American that cross into our border, after all they dont need any kind of passport to cross it.

The Americans are well known here (specially at Spring Break) as being crazy, dirty and wild. Many died this year at Spring Break...some in accidents, some jumping dangerous sites and others ending with the Narco's. For us the places were American tourists visit ( like their cheap clubs where you can find the worst beer for 50 cents) is equal to danger, dirty and cheap.

Mexico is the refrigerator of America. You can get whatever you want from here just for sale...you dont need to 'Liberate' us with your Tommahwak Missiles or your not-so-smart bombs.

I am not asking for 6 meals a day, I am asking for the withdrawal of the innecesary use fo violence (using rubber bullets when is not necessary, hit them after they surrender and etc,etc)...I am just asking that the Border Patrol to see the International Laws.

Hey, the US is always "liberating" or "helping" countries with the excuse of the International Laws and now they are breaking them...an attack without UN authorization (I am pro-war but again for 9th time, every act of this kind has consequences for the UN, this global organization was still usefull for the American goverment) or the immigrant issues.

Americans have all the liberty and right to expell immigrants but they have the right to use violence when necessary ??

Israel is critizing for the same , but we know the are some Palestinians that are involved with terrorism. I dont see any Hispanic related to terrorism (except 2, i think) but I can see some "true" Americans fighting for the Taliban and that are in prisions outside the US....in Latin America.

[Darth Fabulous]

Please. Without American tourism Cancun and Cozumel wouldn't exist. They encourage young people to come on spring break. Why would they charge our country for tourists? That makes no sense. Tourism is one of Mexico's major sources of income. It costs them nothing, they actually make money off of us when we go there. Deporting Mexicans costs us money.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Americans have all the liberty and right to expell immigrants but they have the right to use violence when necessary ??[/b][/quote]

Of course we have the right to respond with force when force is required.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Apr 24 2003, 10:39 PM
Please. Without American tourism Cancun and Cozumel wouldn't exist. They encourage young people to come on spring break. Why would they charge our country for tourists? That makes no sense. Tourism is one of Mexico's major sources of income. It costs them nothing, they actually make money off of us when we go there. Deporting Mexicans costs us money.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Americans have all the liberty and right to expell immigrants but they have the right to use violence when necessary ??

Of course we have the right to respond with force when force is required. [/b][/quote]
Tourism is a source of income...cleaning all your dirt is a source of deficit. How sad that deporting Mexicans is costing the government so much...if they had those giant walls everywhere in the border...but NO !, the American Goverment prefers to waste its money chasing Mexicans in the desert than improving their insufficient border defenses.

With great powers there is a great responsibility.
Something like that, the movie was so bad I put attention to it.

Oh and I also have visited Cancun , twice. The European Visitors are better guests than the Americans. They leave more money and less problems.

[Darth Fabulous]

If Cancun didn't want American college students coming there or was financially unable to clean up after them, the city and it's businesses wouldn't cater to that crowd.

[Marbleman]

Originally posted by Lord Rocha@Apr 23 2003, 11:38 PM
Yeah, Mr Estrada another pawn of the puritan members of the Republican party ?

He has denied his own heritage just to gain power, whealt and prestige. Another conservative in the Supreme Court, no thanks.

The Germans are not going to prefer Hitler to anyone else just because he is German.
so because he has different political views than your own he has betrayed his own heritage? sounds like a very narrow view of the world . . . ???

[JediKeri.]

You shouldn't ask me this question because I'm biased. I got relitives that at German...and you bet I want them in the US.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by marbleman84+Apr 25 2003, 08:07 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(marbleman84 @ Apr 25 2003, 08:07 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lord Rocha@Apr 23 2003, 11:38 PM
Yeah, Mr Estrada another pawn of the puritan members of the Republican party ?

He has denied his own heritage just to gain power, whealt and prestige. Another conservative in the Supreme Court, no thanks.

The Germans are not going to prefer Hitler to anyone else just because he is German.
so because he has different political views than your own he has betrayed his own heritage? sounds like a very narrow view of the world . . . ??? [/b][/quote]
The Hispanics are not going to back him just because he has another interests and positions to the ones the community has.

So he cant be considered as a representant of the community.

[Marbleman]

Originally posted by Lord Rocha+Apr 25 2003, 04:11 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lord Rocha @ Apr 25 2003, 04:11 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by marbleman84@Apr 25 2003, 08:07 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Lord Rocha@Apr 23 2003, 11:38 PM
Yeah, Mr Estrada another pawn of the puritan members of the Republican party ?

He has denied his own heritage just to gain power, whealt and prestige. Another conservative in the Supreme Court, no thanks.

The Germans are not going to prefer Hitler to anyone else just because he is German.
so because he has different political views than your own he has betrayed his own heritage? sounds like a very narrow view of the world . . . ???
The Hispanics are not going to back him just because he has another interests and positions to the ones the community has.

So he cant be considered as a representant of the community. [/b][/quote]
you are being general. not all hispanics are liberal in their stances. so just because he believes differently doesnt mean he has "betrayed" his ethnicity.

you would probably say that about a man like alan keyes, who i have come to respect, is a traitor to the african american communtiy. while i do not agree with everything keyes says, he has a great amount of integrity. people have called him an "uncle tom" just because he thinks differently. i dont just consider such slander wrong, i consider it race-baiting. which is morally wrong; since it demeans people on basis of race. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif

estrada is anything but a puritan. from what ive seen he is center-right. the reason they blocked estrada in the congress, IMO, is b/c the democrats wanted to maintain their appearance of being the "minority party." and i think bush put him forward because he wants to reach out to the hispanic community for votes.

sorry to tear the agendas apart, but it is politics.

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by marbleman84@Apr 25 2003, 06:44 PM
you would probably say that about a man like alan keyes, who i have come to respect, is a traitor to the african american communtiy. while i do not agree with everything keyes says, he has a great amount of integrity. people have called him an "uncle tom" just because he thinks differently. i dont just consider such slander wrong, i consider it race-baiting. which is morally wrong; since it demeans people on basis of race. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif
Excellent example, Marbleman.

There's also the example of Clarence Thomas, the conservative African-American Supreme Court Justice. A few years back, Thomas was invited to a symposium concerned with advancing African-Americans in the legal system. The liberal members of the symposium pulled some strings and had the organization disinvite Thomas because his views were different from what they considered to be the officially sanctioned "Black" political beliefs.

Here's a guy who's at the top of his game: he's a member of the Supreme Court! But to them, he wasn't black enough.
That's racism. They pigeonholed this brilliant man because he dared to differ. They should be ashamed. Since then, Thomas has been disinvited and then reinvited to function after function. It's ridiculous.

[Tovor]

Clarence Thomas was faced with scandal and humilation several years ago because of a sexual harrasment charge against him from a secretary. I think the charges were dropped (?), but it is likely the shadow of that scandal is still haunting him. Perhaps, in addition to the points Krogenar brought up, it is that unforgotten scandal that is the cause of the disinvites.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by marbleman84@Apr 25 2003, 03:44 PM
and i think bush put him forward because he wants to reach out to the hispanic community for votes.

sorry to tear the agendas apart, but it is politics.
Of course.

Politicians "remember" the immigration question only when the elections are near, that feeds the natural distrust of politicians by the Hispanics.

Latin America is not recognized by having the best politicians or the most educated people.

[RollaFett]

Well, my wife is an immigrant, so I'm very much in favor of immigration. Of course, it needs to be done properly. She came here legally, on a work visa, met me, we were married a year later. We then went through the painstakingly process of getting her permanent residency (green card). It took nearly 4 years and help from our congressman to finally get what she deserved and applied for legally. But we did it. It may suck, and it may feel as though the process will never end, but I'm glad we did it the right way.
The illegal immigrant problems bother me too, however, I simply cannot comprehend how our government is unable to control our borders more effectivley. Do I blame illiegals for coming here and trying to improve their lot in life? Of course not. I blame the federal government for allowing it to happen.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Tovor Posted: Apr 23 2003, 07:58 PM
I started a whole long discussion about this subject on the previous Jedinet Council message board, so I have a lot to say on the subject, but I won't due to time issues.[/b][/quote]
Yeah, it sure looked as though you minimized your comments. Big liar. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, it sure looked as though you minimized your comments. Big liar.[/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif I UNminimized them as I remembered I had more to say than a brief rundown! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Krogenar]

Originally posted by Tovor@Apr 25 2003, 08:02 PM
Clarence Thomas was faced with scandal and humilation several years ago because of a sexual harrasment charge against him from a secretary. I think the charges were dropped (?), but it is likely the shadow of that scandal is still haunting him. Perhaps, in addition to the points Krogenar brought up, it is that unforgotten scandal that is the cause of the disinvites.
No, not actually.

Thomas' stance on affirmative action, and his conservative beliefs are what have gotten him branded as an 'Uncle Tom' and/or a 'House Negro.'

Here's are some articles I found:

CNN: School re-invites Justice Thomas to speak (http://www.cnn.com/US/9605/31/thomas.reinvite/)

A quote:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>LANDOVER, Maryland (CNN) -- A suburban Maryland school board Thursday re-invited Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to address its middle school award ceremony after withdrawing its invitation earlier this week.

"There is always room for compromise on an issue such as this," said Prince George's County School Superintendent Jerome Clark.

Clark rescinded the invitation made by school principal Kathy Kurtz after some school board members threatened to demonstrate outside the June 10 ceremony. The controversy stems from some aspects of Thomas' conservative ideology, including his opposition to affirmative action programs.[/b][/quote]

This isn't an isolated event, either.

For Clarence Thomas, Another Invitation and Another Flap (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/supcourt/stories/wpthomas061898.htm)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>By Joan Biskupic
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 18, 1998; Page A06

Two years ago, officials in Prince George's County invited, disinvited, then reinvited Justice Clarence Thomas to speak at a school ceremony. Last year, the Maryland NAACP protested and derailed a speech Thomas was to give at a youth festival. And now some members of the nation's largest organization of black lawyers are trying to withdraw an invitation to the Supreme Court's only African American justice.

Seven years after Thomas was appointed to the high court, the ambivalence and animosity the now-graying justice engenders continues unabated. It has become almost ritual: A predominantly black group attempts to recognize Thomas, and a vocal faction rises up in protest.

To his critics, the reason is simple. Thomas is an African American who holds one of the nation's top offices, yet he uses that position to dismantle affirmative action and other civil rights initiatives that the late justice Thurgood Marshall helped to build a generation earlier.

"He is not a hero to us," said U.S. District Judge U. W. Clemon, among the members of the National Bar Association who is protesting Thomas's invitation to speak. "On issues affecting black people, Mr. Justice Thomas has provided the crucial vote against what many of us consider the interests of black people," Clemon said.[/b][/quote]

See, according to the NAACP, Thomas just isn't black enough. The scandal with Anita Hill was just a cheap partisan attack by his opponents. Anita Hill continues on the lecture circuit to this day. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Marbleman]

Originally posted by Krogenar@Apr 29 2003, 01:51 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
"He is not a hero to us," said U.S. District Judge U. W. Clemon, among the members of the National Bar Association who is protesting Thomas's invitation to speak. "On issues affecting black people, Mr. Justice Thomas has provided the crucial vote against what many of us consider the interests of black people," Clemon said.

See, according to the NAACP, Thomas just isn't black enough. The scandal with Anita Hill was just a cheap partisan attack by his opponents. Anita Hill continues on the lecture circuit to this day. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif [/b][/quote]
ah, elitism at its finest.

who made these african american leaders the ones who determine who is or isnt a representative of the "interests of black people?" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unhappy.gif again, i dont agree with all thomas' decisions, but i respect him and he IS a valid representative of his ethnicity. the few republican black americans like jc watts are villified simply by their beliefs, and that is wrong.

btw, there is a majority of moderate african americans in this country and i believe they are underrepresented in black leadership.

you cant take away someones race just because you want to. ???

[Sedrious]

I might like to see what Canada and England are like. As far as the US goes.... there should be a 10 year halting of all immirgation whatsoever. Create jobs, erect a fence along both borders.....southern 1st. Anyone who crosses without a visting visa, is warned twiced, then non-mortally wounded.

Sounds kinda extreme, but its a reasonable way.......

[Sedrious]

No takers.....?

[Krail]

^^ Sounds stern......but we do have enough people in this country as is......too bad all the congress and such is too scared to try something like that.

[Streen]

Originally posted by Krail@Oct 28 2005, 01:50 AM
^^ Sounds stern......but we do have enough people in this country as is......too bad all the congress and such is too scared to try something like that.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Exactly......

[Galen]

Originally posted by Sedrious@Oct 26 2005, 10:49 PM
I might like to see what Canada and England are like. As far as the US goes.... there should be a 10 year halting of all immirgation whatsoever. Create jobs, erect a fence along both borders.....southern 1st. Anyone who crosses without a visting visa, is warned twiced, then non-mortally wounded.

Sounds kinda extreme, but its a reasonable way.......
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


This country is too politically cowardly to attempt it....... but it would be worth trying......

[Filoviridae]

Fence? How about the Great Wall of USA...with turrets!


Edit: Canadian border first! Those crazy Canucks are probably about ready to snap.

[Gavin]

Living here in southern Arizona I have a very biased and strong view. I totally support legal immigration to the USA for anyone. However, I DO NOT condone illegal immigration. 10 years ago it wasn't so bad when the Hispanics were peaceful workers. Now they are breaking into homes, cars, smuggling drugs, even murder. They go to hospitals and they get free treatment because they aren't citizens. Honest hardworking citizens have to support them through welfare, etc. I live in smalltown USA and they are a major drain on our hardworking, patriotic culture as well as straining our financial resources. They are taking more and more jobs from us. I work in the dirt, I work full time construction and I'm a firefighter. Half of the labor force down here is gone to illegals for cheaper wages, except city, state, and federal jobs. Our govt. does nothing because they don't want to offend. Personally I think we should round all these puppies up and ship them back, and build a wall with an increas in security. On the same token, I really feel for the hard working individuals who take the time to learn English and immigrate here legally. I know the process is long and hard for legal immigration and I strongly think we should ease up on that. Sorry for the lengthy post or if I offended anyone.

Edit: Sedrious I didn't read your idea before I posted this, and I completely agree.

[Sedrious]

Come on people, talk.......

[Streen]

Looks like no one wants to talk about this........... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Justin]

I think there has been some serious discussion about building a wall along the US border with Mexico, but the bleeding hearts are sternly opposed to the idea.

I think it is a problem, and not just because people who are not citizens are coming here and living off those of us who are, but because it is so easy to get across the border with no one knowing, it makes it very easy for a terrorist to bring weapons of mass destruction into the country undetected.

I think we need to build a strong stone and steel wall that extends fairly deep underground to prevent tunnelling, and then build a second wall behind it and have razor wire all over them. Electrifying part of it would be great too.

[Zobb]

Originally posted by Justin@Nov 13 2005, 10:30 PM
I think there has been some serious discussion about building a wall along the US border with Mexico, but the bleeding hearts are sternly opposed to the idea.

I think it is a problem, and not just because people who are not citizens are coming here and living off those of us who are, but because it is so easy to get across the border with no one knowing, it makes it very easy for a terrorist to bring weapons of mass destruction into the country undetected.

I think we need to build a strong stone and steel wall that extends fairly deep underground to prevent tunnelling, and then build a second wall behind it and have razor wire all over them. Electrifying part of it would be great too.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


^I agree.

What about non-mortally wounding those who trepass..........? Too stern....?

[Filoviridae]

I wonder how that would affect US/Mexico relations. On one hand it seems a little hostile but on the other the Mexican authorities shouldn't have any problem with it if we're only keeping out those trying to enter illegally.

I think border control should be a joint effort in any case for the safety of both nations.

[Streen]

^ It would be horrible for US/Mexico relations. That's why this country won't do it....and isn't serious about controlling the border. Politics........

[Palpatine]

Yes I would move to another country, if it seemed better.

As for my views, I don't mind immigrants coming to my country, but they should do it legally. I think we (USA) should have better border patrols and tighter immigration laws. Only immigrants who move here legally should be allowed in the country. Illegal immigrants should be kicked out of the country, until they come here legally.

[Bretsch]

Oh my...........This should be interesting, specially today. :sly:



any comments???

[JMAS]

Frankly, I think any illegal immigrants who walked off their jobs yesterday should be be fired, rounded up by INS and kicked back to their country of origin. Then force the companies they were working for to hire legal immigrants or US citizens that need work and pay them minimum wage, or what the particular job is worthy of.

The problem is, the companies and/or idividuals that hire illegals should be punished. They are a major part of the problem. They want to get around paying minimum wage to a legal immigrant or US citizen, so they hire illegal immigrants, paying them under the table at a fraction of minimum wage.

[Kommandant Felix]

Originally posted by JMAS@May 2 2006, 04:03 PM
Frankly, I think any illegal immigrants who walked off their jobs yesterday should be be fired, rounded up by INS and kicked back to their country of origin. Then force the companies they were working for to hire legal immigrants or US citizens that need work and pay them minimum wage, or what the particular job is worthy of.

The problem is, the companies and/or idividuals that hire illegals should be punished. They are a major part of the problem. They want to get around paying minimum wage to a legal immigrant or US citizen, so they hire illegal immigrants, paying them under the table at a fraction of minimum wage.
Quoted post

I agree. I was reading an article on Yahoo from which an illegal immigrant commented:
"If I lose my job, it's worth it," said Jose Cruz, an immigrant from El Salvador who rather than working his construction job protested with several thousand others in the rural city of Homestead outside Miami. "It's worth losing several jobs to get my papers."
That's not right...he should have to get his papers legally like all the rest of the immigrants. How fair is that? You get to be an American citizen because you snuck into the country illegally while others can wait to get in.

"I want my children to know their mother is not a criminal," said Olmedo, a nanny who came here illegally in 1986 from Mexico. "I want them to be as strong I am. This shows our strength."

But she is a criminal! If she wanted to show her kids she's not a criminal... Don't come here ILLEGALLY! If you break the laws, you are a criminal!

[trebor gahkor]

Isn't it all in the name "Illegal Immigrant"? They're illegal!! Why can't people see this!! They are sucking away our tax dollars, voting in our country (illegally mind you) and are creating problems and lowering wages for the average working American. I think we need to round them all up, send them all home and officially close our borders! I teach some of their kids everyday and it really disgusts me that our tax dollars are going to educate their children.
Oh, and what relations with Mexico? What does America get from Mexico that has any lasting value? Taco Bell? That's about all I can think of!!!

:devil:

[Bretsch]

^:stop: I must strongly disagree, Taco Bell is an American franchise, and its products are not in any way similar to a real taco. :lol:

Otherwise, Legal and ilegal.........it is what it is: No one can be above the law. If there's something wrong with it, correct it; if there isn't, enforce it.

[JackBauer24]

Originally posted by JMAS@May 2 2006, 03:03 PM
Frankly, I think any illegal immigrants who walked off their jobs yesterday should be be fired, rounded up by INS and kicked back to their country of origin. Quoted post



The ironic thing is that the illegal immigrants staged protests the other day. They all gathered in one place! Perfect opportunity for the INS to swoop in and arrest everybody.

And I'm sorry, but isn't there a job crisis in this country? Unemployment rising? Well, there's the solution! Deport the illegal immigrants and give their jobs to American citizens. Solve two problems with one blow.

[Krogenar]

Mexican Senate sides with -

This post can be found in it's entirety at the following link:

http://www.galacticsenate.com/showpost.php?p=902068&postcount=71

Also, please buy my generic Viagra pills.

Thank you.

[Sarah-Leia]

I think it's heartless and cruel that CHILDREN are locked up in detention centres when all they need is a safe roof over their heads.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Whilst I agree with that Sarah, I think it is stupid and heartless of parents to put their children in the situation whereby they may be detained.

[Sarah-Leia]

Sure.

But the parents are detained too.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

So the solution is not to enter a country illegally. :wink:

[Sarah-Leia]

I think that if they are in danger of dying in their war-torn home country or otherwise have no way to live our government should consider the fact that they need it.

I would say more, but our right to free speech in Australia is limited. :yes:

[Sarah-Leia]

I dont see any good on doing that...half America would be expelled of its own territory if it were by mispelling bad words.

:rofl: x 100,000,000,000.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Well of course there are all sorts of moral, human and political issues to be considered in such cases. In my opinion, it is first and foremost the responsibility of the government of the country they reside in to look after its citizens.

Is free speech really limited in Australia? :scratchchin:

[Sarah-Leia]

It is, a bit. We aren't allowed to call our politicians and government criminals, crooks, can't call our teachers evil on www.ratemyteachers.com (http://www.ratemyteachers.com) or whatever the site is. We can have a bit of a laugh and say that John Howard is a lying rodent but we can't take it too far.

[Krogenar]

I think it's heartless and cruel that CHILDREN are locked up in detention centres when all they need is a safe roof over their heads.

I'm told that the detention centers are equipped with roofing.

[Krogenar]

I think that if they are in danger of dying in their war-torn home country or otherwise have no way to live our government should consider the fact that they need it.

I would say more, but our right to free speech in Australia is limited. :yes:

Mexico isn't war-torn, it's just an economic armpit. Instead of crossing the border illegally, they should try to change their government. Then they wouldn't have to leave Mexico in order to find work.