The Fate of Naboo

[Mann]

I just read something out of my brothers star wars dictionary that is updated to the entire sage, even remarks on Episode 3! I don't know if it's true or not, but I read that Naboo is devastated and turns into Dagobah. I don't know how, but this could explain alot. Luke's rememberance of Dagobah in a dream or memory. the whole planet is devastated, resulting in everyone leaving or dying. This could also be where Dooku dies and causes the Cave of the Dark Side to appear? What are your thoughts?

[Senator Amory]

That is very interesting. I've never read read that. but it sounds like it could possibly be true. Maybe you should check into that some more to find more information.

[Mann]

I will, My brother has the dictionary somewhere. But the thing that made it kind of true was when We both looked on a map during Episode 1 in 1999, and they showed Naboo, but no Dagobah. That is what got my attention. Did anyone else see any maps like that?

[Lonesabre]

Yup I agree with you Mann!

Ive heard that on some SW star charts Dagohbah and Naboo appear together but check out the "Padme in ROTJ? {OT}" thread to see other examples of where what we thought was truth has been changed in the past...

Owen Lars as Obi Kenobis brother??? Yeah right but it was once true...

Maybe after Yodas battle with Dooku/Windu he doesnt actually go anywhere and just stays in the ruins of Naboo?!? Most of Naboo is covered in swampland anyway isnt it?

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@July 12 2002 - 18:29
Maybe after Yodas battle with Dooku/Windu he doesnt actually go anywhere and just stays in the ruins of Naboo?!? Most of Naboo is covered in swampland anyway isnt it?
It would be very cool if things turn out that way. *I've been hoping that Yoda will kill Tyrannus there to explain the dark side presence seen in ESB. *If Dagobah is Naboo, things will tie together even better than I had imagined. *

Since we're on the subject of Naboo, I've have a question: *What was it's importance to Sidious in TPM? *After the Trade Federation failed to force the Queen to sign the treaty, he obviously changed his plans, as AOTC had nothing to do with the planet. *But what was he originally planning? *Was Naboo to lead the separatist movement under the Federation, or to serve as a location to amass a droid army to eventually invade? *Any thoughts?

[Rinc]

As Palpatine was the senator of Naboo i'm sure whatever would've happened, he would have stirred it up in the senate in order to become chancellor. If the Trade Federation had gained control of the planet Palpatine would've complained anyway. But maybe he knew Amidala was strong willed and wouldn't give in, he didn't give that impression to the TF but that was just to encourage them to invade.

[Spear]

i dont think that naboo turns into degobah because you can play on naboo in star wars galaxies and that takes place between ANH and TESB

[sonofsam]

I don't have any speculation as to whether Naboo is Dagobah. I would suspect that they are two separate planets, but, who knows...? Borgmatrix. On your question as to why the Trade Federation chose Naboo, the reason is that it was actually Darth Sidious who created the invasion plan. This was done, because it was Senator Palpatine's home planet. It was a sympathy vote, that got him elected to the position of Supreme Chancellor. The senate felt sympathy for Palpatine's world, thus that gave him the edge when the votes were cast. Very simple, yet very cunning.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by sonofsam@July 13 2002 - 00:04
Borgmatrix. *On your question as to why the Trade Federation chose Naboo, the reason is that it was actually Darth Sidious who created the invasion plan. *This was done, because it was Senator Palpatine's home planet. *It was a sympathy vote, that got him elected to the position of Supreme Chancellor. *The senate felt sympathy for Palpatine's world, thus that gave him the edge when the votes were cast. *Very simple, yet very cunning.
That makes a lot of sense. What confuses me is that in his conversations with the Federation leaders, Sidious seemed genuinely angry about Jedi being sent as Ambassadors, as well as over the Federation's failure to get the treaty signed. Was this just an act for the benefit of the Viceroy, or did he want the planet in addition to securing the Chancellor position? After all, Sidious did send Maul out after the Queen. I can't imagine Sidious going to that trouble unless he truly wanted the Queen back on Naboo and the treaty signed. I suppose he just wanted to ensure that the threat still existed when the election began.

[haYDen CHriSteNSEn LoVEr]

true, true, your coments are, degobah mentionedis not in the PT, naboo mentioned is not in thr OT. courasant i think also will be distroyed i think, as not mentioned in the OT is it?
thoughts has anyone on what happened to courasant

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by haYDen CHriSteNSEn LoVEr@July 13 2002 - 14:50
courasant i think also will be distroyed i think, as not mentioned in the OT is it?
thoughts has anyone on what happened to courasant
At the end of ROTJ Special Edition, we see fireworks going off above several worlds. Coruscant is one of those, so it still exists. When Lucas adds stuff when he releases the OT on DVD, I'm hoping he puts in footage showing Coruscant. Perhaps the Emperor's palace (or wherever he resides).

[DblDwn]

Good to see Lonesabre keeping everyone on the right page here. What's up buddy?

I had two thoughts about the origin of Dagobah and one of them was that Naboo became Dagobah as some of you have said. I read somewhere that Naboo becomes unstable and that is why the volcanos are erupting and there is lava everywhere. That would also make it a good location for Obi-Wan and Anakin to have their duel as well. The second one I had I posted in another thread, but I will paste it in here just to contrast the 'Dagobah is Naboo' thought.

As some of you may know, the sketch artists for the OT drew out a mock sketch of a volcanic planet where Vader kept his lair. Lucas decided to not use it for the OT and instead decided to "save it for down the road." Is there any chance that the dark cave was the entry way into Vader's lair, hence the presence of the Dark Side? What if after the movie takes place, being as that it is fiction of course, the planet has since cooled and become a baron swampland?

I think it could be a combination of both of these. Perhaps once Anakin turns to the Dark Side he sets up his 'lair' on Naboo. Around the time that Obi-Wan confronts him and they duel, the planet has become unstable. Anakin falls into lava from one of the erupting volcanos and Obi-Wan leaves believing him to be dead. In between trilogies the planet cools and becomes nothing more than a swampland. Remember in TPM right before the final battle begins and the Gungan Army appears from within the fog and the foliage? Is it just me, or did that resemble Dagobah to everyone else? It also makes sense that Luke would remember Dagobah if it were Naboo because it is most likely that Padme will give birth to the twins on Naboo since she is from there. Since he is born there, he would have a memory of it. The cave could have been an entry way into Vaders 'lair' or it could have been what was left of one of the many buildings.

What does everyone think?

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by DblDwn@July 13 2002 - 17:17
I think it could be a combination of both of these. Perhaps once Anakin turns to the Dark Side he sets up his 'lair' on Naboo. Around the time that Obi-Wan confronts him and they duel, the planet has become unstable. Anakin falls into lava from one of the erupting volcanos and Obi-Wan leaves believing him to be dead. In between trilogies the planet cools and becomes nothing more than a swampland.
That's really interesting. It's been assumed for years that Anakin's injuries were from falling into some kind of lava stream, yet we haven't seen any such lava planet. If Naboo does become unstable, that could be where his duel with Kenobi takes place.

But thus far, we've been given no hint whatsoever that Naboo is unstable. It would come out of nowhere to have Naboo change so drastically. And why the name change from Naboo to Dagobah? It would be great to see this happen, but it would have to make sense. As of now, I'm uncertain how all that could be explained well in episode III.

The area of Coruscant where Tyrannus met Sidious at the end of AOTC seemed like it could have some "molten" areas. Since the Jedi temple is on Coruscant and Sidious is based there as well, it might be more likely that Anakin and Obi-wan fight there.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by borgmatrix@July 13 2002 - 18:08
But thus far, we've been given no hint whatsoever that Naboo is unstable. *It would come out of nowhere to have Naboo change so drastically. *And why the name change from Naboo to Dagobah?
Just because we've been given no indication that Naboo is potentially an unstable planet doesn't mean that it can become so in the 2-3 year span between AOTC and Episode III. Remember Star Trek 3: The Search For Spock? At the beginning Genesis is a stable, flourishing planet, but by the end of the movie it is unstable. The ground is breaking up and lava is exposed everywhere (that's how Christopher Lloyd's character dies after all). Being as all that happens during the course of the movie it is not hard to imagine that Naboo could become unstable in the time between movies.

[Mann]

Maybe Palpatine will demonstrate his tru power and make Naboo unstable with the dark side.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by DblDwn@July 14 2002 - 14:42
Just because we've been given no indication that Naboo is potentially an unstable planet doesn't mean that it can become so in the 2-3 year span between AOTC and Episode III. Remember Star Trek 3: The Search For Spock? At the beginning Genesis is a stable, flourishing planet, but by the end of the movie it is unstable.
Yeah, that's true. So then the only remaining issue is why the planet would be renamed Dagobah. Or is Dagobah the system Naboo is in?

[Darth Fred]

Don't know if you want to add EU stuff to the debate, but the maps in the front of the New Jedi Order novels show that Dagobah and Naboo are separate systems. Alderaan is indicated in paratheneses, while Naboo is not. Now, I don't think I've come across a Naboo reference in the novels, but then I've only skimmed through a few. :)

I suppose it's possible that Palpatine would want Naboo destroyed, to hide any traces of his past, but my guess is that once he becomes Supreme Chancellor (and certainly once he becomes Emperor), he will never set foot on Naboo again. The need for secrecy would be on his way up, not once he's in power. So unless I see something to the contrary in Ep 3, I think Naboo just fades away in the OT.

Darth Fred

[SonGokou]

I would have to agree with Darth Fred on this one: Naboo and Dagobah are two very different planets. Why would a planet be renamed simply because of a climate change? (Endor lost it's planet long ago and is still reffered to as a moon)
Naboo was an easy target for our friend Palpy to use: it had no defence against such an invasion, it had a small population of farmers exporting nothing other than foodstuffs and was completely un-important as far as the Senate were concerned. *The Empire only uses planets of Military or Politicle importance in the OT, but in order for Palpy to come to power Naboo was easy game.

As for Obi and Anakins fight, it's probably on the new, unseen planet we'll see in Episode III. (Well, there has to be one doesn't there?)

Your Sith Lord™ has spoken...

[QuigonWindu]

Who knows, but if its in a SW encyclopedia it must be true. If the encyclopedia is official. SonGokou is right there probably will be a new planet in ep: 3. There's been a new one in every episode so far.

ANH- Tatooine, Yavin

ESB- Hoth, Dagobah, Bespin

ROTJ- Endor( not really a planet but who cares), Coruscant

TPM-Naboo

AOTC- Kamino, Geonosis

[Handothrawn]

Originally posted by Mann@July 12 2002 - 18:27
We both looked on a map during Episode 1 in 1999, and they showed Naboo, but no Dagobah. That is what got my attention. Did anyone else see any maps like that?
Naboo and Degohbah are in two different parts of the galaxy, check the one in Jedi Eclipse.Dagobah is on the Rimma trade Route, and Naboo is on the Outer Rim, between the Corellian Run, and the Rimma Trade Route.

[Martini]

Alright, if Lucas wants to impress and surprise some people, this is A PERFECT WAY to do it. cause everyone wants a good shock when they see a star wars movie and the only really good one was TESB (duh). But if GL goes as far and as dumb as something like Palpy or Dooku being Anakin's father, it'll lame, already done and the audience wont beleive it. Lucas needs to blow people away and this is a good way to do it as well as showing anakin becoming evil and darth vader killing tons of jedi.

I think Naboo can become destroyed in a 2-3 year span. And dont forgot, it can still be deteriorating in the 20 or so years between EP 3 and ANH and TESB. This would be a good surprise.

[Lonesabre]

Hey DblDwn hows you?

I feel it is time to add a strange idea once more...

What if Palpatine wants to demonstrate the full power of his new weapon {the Death Star} and targets his old home world Naboo? {typical megalomania!}

But at this early stage of the Death Stars development, instead of destroying a planet it infact "makes a planet unstable" or "deteriates a planet" etc etc...

As for the name change... Maybe.. um... what if the Death Star was ment to destroy Naboo but theres a balls up and it doesnt completely succeed and to hide there embarrasment, the Empire changes its name???

I DONT KNOW!!!

Another thought, is the planet Daghobah actually called Daghobah? Im sure Kenobis spirit in TESB only says "You must go to the Daghobah SYSTEM"!?!

Let me know!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/exclamation.gif

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@July 15 2002 - 14:19
Another thought, is the planet Daghobah actually called Daghobah? Im sure Kenobis spirit in TESB only says "You must go to the Daghobah SYSTEM"!?!
That's what I was considering, but wasn't sure. I think you're right. I'm pretty sure I remember "Dagobah system". So if that is the case, the planet could be Naboo. I know some of you have mentioned maps showing them at two different locations, but those are from the novels, right? Would those be considered official?

[Lonesabre]

I believe they are official but it has been seen before that GL doesnt always give two stuffs about the expanded universe.

I think that we are on the right track here, I think that, EU excluded, Naboo could quite possibly be a planet in the Daghobah System...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/alien.gif

[SonGokou]

Wasn't Dagobah in a remote uncharted system?

[DblDwn]

Very good point. All that Obi-Wan says to Luke is that, "You will go to the Dagobah System." There is never a mention as to the specific planet within the system that he goes to. Everyone has always assumed that the planet was Dagobah.

If Dagobah was indeed in a remote uncharted system, then it could be Naboo because Naboo was in the Outer Rim. Perhaps when the Empire is formed, the boundaries of the old Republic are altered. Assuming that Palpatine is Sidious, then he could change the boundaries so that the remnants of his home world would not be within his new Empire, which would in turn show that he has such hatred for his beginnings there that he does not see it deserving of being a part of his new Empire.

As far as quigonwindu talking about the introduction of a new planet for Episode III, I am sure we will see Alderaan in the movie. That would serve as the new planet since it really wasn't in ANH long enough to count for that one.

Regarding what handothrawn said, unless that Jedi Eclipse you mentioned was penned by Lucas himself, that really doesn't mean that much to me. However even if it were, for sake of all argument, it really wouldn't mean that much to me anyway because, as both myself and my partner in crime Lonesabre have both explained, Lucas does tend to change his mind on things from time to time.

[Lonesabre]

Excellent idea partner! I like the fact that the Emperor might change the boundaries after the Empire is formed!

Ive rethought my Death Star idea, I dont believe it will be in EpIII, because, it would take away the dramatic feel of the "small moon" scene in ANH and plus there is already enough happening in the movie to introduce the ultimate weapon.

Ok, so, Naboo is mostly swamp lands right, and so is Daghobah, ok, so weve got that sorted. Now how do we explain the volcanic activity for the final battle? A different place altogether or maybe somewhere on Naboo that we havent seen??

Let me know!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/butbut.gif

Hey DblDwn where you from? Im from the UK!

[DblDwn]

Lonesabre,you should read my last post in the "End of Episode III" thread (I think that is what it is called). I have a theory regarding the Death Star in Episode III.

As for the question at hand. It is likely that if and when Naboo becomes unstable, then volcanos could be going off all over the planet. Anakin and Obi-Wan would just have to pick one to fight at. Whether the entrance to Anakin's lair would become the dark cave, although it would make sense, remains to be seen.

Perhaps when volcanos begin going off, the lava will drain down into the various forms of water on the planet, thus drastically increasing the temperature of the water and that is how Lucas can do away with Otah Gunga and the Gungans in general since we know that they must be wiped out being as that they are not in the OT.

Lonesabre I live in the State of Washington in the good ole USA.

[Mann]

You know, In episode I, when the gungans come out of the swamp in their army, the swamp looks alot like Dagobah, don't you think? and the creatures on Naboo that can fly look like the ones on Dagobah. And that fish creature that eats R2 could be and that big fish that tries to eat them in the Core. Maybe...

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Mann@July 16 2002 - 12:28
You know, In episode I, when the gungans come out of the swamp in their army, the swamp looks alot like Dagobah, don't you think? and the creatures on Naboo that can fly look like the ones on Dagobah. And that fish creature that eats R2 could be and that big fish that tries to eat them in the Core. Maybe...
This is such a good observation that I made it on the first page. I like the way that you are thinking though. Keep up the good work.

[Mann]

thanx DblDwn. Sorry I didn't see your post before, but I'm glad we are on the same page so to speak style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Polunis]

There does seem to be some validity to the Dagobah=Naboo theory. I will reserve judgment on the matter until we see Episode III.

[SonGokou]

Uh, would a swamp not look like any other? That's like comparing Tatooine to Geonosis. It has rocks and lots of sand. BUT there are differences if you look close. Those trees in the Gungan Sacred area were "swamp" trees yes? They don't look nearly as old and gnarled as the Degobah, and 30 years ain't gonna do that to a tree.
Another point nobody's raised is: This Degobah IS Naboo theory would destroy the narrative (a pointless diversion) and would be compleley unnecessary. As far as Naboos fate, thats impossible to say only Master George knows...

[QuigonWindu]

I doubt that Naboo is Dagobah because Naboo and Dagobah are on the maps near the front of the NJO books. But if this rumor is true, maybe, Palpatin had a test for the Death Star before Alderaan. Maybe it didn't destroy the planet but just messed it up and made it unstable.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by quigonwindu@July 16 2002 - 17:59
I doubt that Naboo is Dagobah because Naboo and Dagobah are on the maps near the front of the NJO books. But if this rumor is true, maybe, Palpatin had a test for the Death Star before Alderaan. Maybe it didn't destroy the planet but just messed it up and made it unstable.
I just got done watching ANH on DVD, it helps to know the right people, and before Leia is brought onto the bridge when Alderaan is destroyed, General Motti (I believe it is him) walks up and informs Tarkin that the final checks are complete (or something to that effect). At that point the Death Star was complete. That means that there could be no testing of it beforehand. Plus, to have Naboo destroyed off camera and never mentioned would defeat the purpose. We are supposed to know what happens to it.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by SonGokou@July 16 2002 - 17:48
Uh, would a swamp not look like any other? That's like comparing Tatooine to Geonosis. It has rocks and lots of sand. BUT there are differences if you look close. Those trees in the Gungan Sacred area were "swamp" trees yes? They don't look nearly as old and gnarled as the Degobah, and 30 years ain't gonna do that to a tree.
Another point nobody's raised is: This Degobah IS Naboo theory would destroy the narrative (a pointless diversion) and would be compleley unnecessary. As far as Naboos fate, thats impossible to say only Master George knows...
"Destroy the narrative (a pointless diversion)".............how would that destroy anything? It would actually provide Lucas with a way to explain what happens to both the Gungans and Naboo itself. What would it be diverting from?

I could care less if you want to agree with me or not, but if you are going to argue or challenge a point/theory/idea, please feel free to do so, but please make it specific and not so vague so that I, or anyone else, cannot refute what it is you have to say.

[Mann]

Actually the gungans don't have to die...When Luke went to Dagobah for the first time, he said there was a massive amount of lifeforms on the planet. Gungans don't use technology, they use there organic material, not metal. In fact, Padme could be hiding in the city underwater...
You never know

[DblDwn]

Mann, I respect that you are allowing yourself to consider this as a potential reality after Episode III. Thank you for keeping an open mind.

[Mann]

Thanks to you too DblDwn. I respect you for supporting this when so many are trying to detract it. If you think of anything else you can post it. Lets try to keep this up top for a while.

though, here's something about the whole "system" idea. I think that a possiblity that they are called system is because that is a term for planets (ie the Hoth system). but as in a solar system, it sounds reasonable.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Mann@July 16 2002 - 20:32
If you think of anything else you can post it. Lets try to keep this up top for a while..
It is an interesting topic.

Here's something to consider: I remember seeing in a bookstore some years ago a book that contained the original scripts or story ideas for the trilogy. For ROTJ, the final sequence involving Luke, Vader, and the Emperor was originlly to take place, if I'm remembering correctly, on the Emperor's homeworld, which contained lavastreams and the like.

We know Naboo is the Emperor's home planet, so if Lucas wants to recycle that idea for the epIII end, it's possible we'll see instability on Naboo with it becoming that type of planet. It could then serve as the site of the Skywalker/Kenobi battle, resulting in Anakin's injuries, as well as a Vader vs Dooku battle ending in Dooku's death and that Dark Side spot on what would now be Dagobah. (or even Yoda vs Dooku instead).

I'm not sure if planet instability would result in lava flows and swamps, but it's possible, right? I know this is tying a lot of possibly unrelated aspects together, but it could work. It would tie in nicely with the OT if Naboo is Dagobah's origin and Dooku's death results in the Dark Side area there.

[Mann]

What if Dooku's Death on Naboo in a certain cave causes the planet to become unstable? another idea, but I think that something is gonna have to happen to make a cave with the darkside.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Mann@July 17 2002 - 11:21
What if Dooku's Death on Naboo in a certain cave causes the planet to become unstable? another idea, but I think that something is gonna have to happen to make a cave with the darkside.
I'm hoping it's Dooku's death that causes it. Otherwise, it'll be left unexplained.

You know, I'm thinking that the planet really doesn't need to become unstable. We're making this a lot more difficult than is necessary. Earth has deserts, ice/snow areas, oceans, forests, jungles, rain forests, swamps, and so on. No instability was needed for those areas to exist. So in all likelihood, Naboo does have a swamp region somewhere. Instability doesn't have to factor in.

And since we've already established that Dagobah's the system and not the planet name, I think we've cleared up the major problems. Naboo could be the planet Yoda was on in ESB. Now we just have to wait for epIII to find out for sure.

[SonGokou]

"I could care less if you want to agree with me or not, but if you are going to argue or challenge a point/theory/idea, please feel free to do so, but please make it specific and not so vague so that I, or anyone else, cannot refute what it is you have to say. "

I meant that it would be a pointless sub-plot that would distract from the overall story.

[DblDwn]

OK, that's understandable, but how do you consider that to be a subplot. It would be clearing up both what happens to Naboo and why Yoda decides to stay there. That isn't subplot, that is clearing up plot.

Here's an idea. Assuming that Palpatine is Sidious and since Palpatine is from Naboo, perhaps once Sidious lets his identity be known that is why there is a strong presence of the Dark Side on Naboo since that is his homeworld. Then if Dagobah is Naboo, that would explain the strong presence of the Dark Side there and why Yoda would be hiding there since it is unlikely Sidious would ever care to return.

Maybe the power of the Dark Side destroys Naboo so as to kind of "do away with" Sidious' former life.

[SonGokou]

Your ideas are valid and if I were a Sith™ Lord bent on domination I would destroy all of my past to hide my weakness'. *BUT we're assumming that our friend Palpy is actually from Naboo. I always assumed to be a Sith you had to study the arts and religion for sometime, and the Sith™ (I love doing that little tm thing style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif ) were never present on Naboo (the Gungans are native, regardless of thier stupidity they would have noticed). I definately agree, Naboo is destroyed at somepoint, but I really doubt it's turned into Degobah.

As for your other point, think about it: There are alot of sub-plots, they all tie (no pun intended style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif) in with the OT (who is Darth Vader, where does he come from, who is L+L's mother etc) none take away from the actual story. *Only the important questions from the OT are answered, Naboo was never a part of the OT, it's fate was a question that was never asked and therefore never required an answer.

Your Sith™ Lord has spoken... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[LordTyranus]

For the sake of argument lets just say Naboo is Dagobah. Now the dark cave is easily explained, Dooku doesn't have to die there, why??? DARTH MAUL DIED ON NABOO! If Naboo is Dagobah then the dark presence would be the aura left from the old dark lord Maul, which would make Maul even more important in the big picture, because lets face it Maul really wasn't necessary, but this could make him neccesary. I am a genious. :sly:

[SonGokou]

This is something I fail to understand: Why does everybody assume this cave theory to be explained in the new trilogy? What if, say, that this planet is really, really old and at some point in it's history something unpleasant happend? What if this part of the SW movies, regardless of any EU involvment, remained a mystery?

[LordTyranus]

For me the cave never has to be explained, all I'm saying is that if Naboo is Dagobah than a sith has already died there giving it it's "dark aura", besides it would give Darth Maul some purpose.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by LordTyranus@July 17 2002 - 23:37
For the sake of argument lets just say Naboo is Dagobah. Now the dark cave is easily explained, Dooku doesn't have to die there, why??? DARTH MAUL DIED ON NABOO! If Naboo is Dagobah then the dark presence would be the aura left from the old dark lord Maul, which would make Maul even more important in the big picture, because lets face it Maul really wasn't necessary, but this could make him neccesary. I am a genious. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif
I like it. Darth Maul was such a popular character with whom the fans adored. He was easily the Boba Fett of the PT. However I always had a problem with why he was even in the movie to begin with. I understand that there needed to be some sort of Sith Appentice that would inevitibly kill Qui-Gon, but you would have thought that it would have been a character with more texture to him (as in dialogue, background, screentime, etc.). I also understand that that is what made him so appealing was because he was so mysterious. This idea of yours about his 'spirit', or whatever you want to classify it as, causing this Dark Side presence on Dagobah/Naboo is a great idea. That certainly would solve that lingering, ongoing, highly controversial mystery of the dark cave. Good job.

[Lonesabre]

I like the Darth Maul idea "Good Job!"

I know im straying across threads here but I just always thought that the cave was just a place where Yoda used the force to help train Luke. Look at Yodas face as Luke enters, to me it looks like he is trying to magic something up doesnt it? I dont think that the cave really needs to be explained but it would make a nice little reference for the fans and another way of binding the PT to the OT. Nice.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[Mann]

well, the cave's importance has to be shown. If it is Naboo, then Tyranus is the one that died there. I believe the reason for it being so strong with the Dark Side is that Anakin killed Tyranus with all of his hatred and anger, and became Darth Vader in that cave. that is the reason Vader's presence is still there. that's my belief.

The Maul theory is understandable, but maul didn't die in a cave, he fell down a pit. Maul's power wasn't that strong that he would leave an imprint of the darkside. His purpose was to kill Qui-Gon and that was it.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by LordTyranus@July 17 2002 - 23:37
Now the dark cave is easily explained, Dooku doesn't have to die there, why??? DARTH MAUL DIED ON NABOO!
True, but then it would have to be shown how that massive complex completely disappeared and became a swamp. For epIII, it would be easier to establish that a Sith died elsewhere in a region of Naboo that's already a swamp. And since Luke saw Vader at that Dark Side area, it might be better if Anakin was involved in creating that aura.

That leads me to another thought: What if Anakin fell to the Dark Side on that spot in an explosion of rage that left an aura. That would go against the idea of falling in a molten pit, but then we don't know if that's a fact anyway.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by SonGokou@July 18 2002 - 00:37
What if this part of the SW movies, regardless of any EU involvment, remained a mystery?
There's a good chance it will. It's not that we expect it will be answered, but that we want it explained. It would be a great way to link the two trilogies.

[Mann]

What if Anakin fell to the Dark Side on that spot in an explosion of rage that left an aura. That would go against the idea of falling in a molten pit, but then we don't know if that's a fact anyway.

A fantasic Idea borgmatrix, yet if you would notice, i beat you to it. Still, i like the idea. I think that is where Anakin turns now.

[LordTyranus]

If Naboo turns into Dagohbah there would have to be planet wide destruction, I just watched Empire today and Luke states that there are no cities, so all the cities, like Theed, would have to be destroyed. Therefor my Darth Maul theory could still hold water, I would like to see that happen because it would give some importance to an otherwise useless (but cool no less) character.

[Foozbond]

And like someone said earlier, Naboo is in the Star Wars Galaxies game, which is taking place between ESB and RotJ so it cant be Dagobah.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by Mann@July 18 2002 - 13:29
A fantasic Idea borgmatrix, yet if you would notice, i beat you to it. Still, i like the idea. I think that is where Anakin turns now.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif *Yeah, you're right. *Sorry about that. *And I read your post too, before I wrote mine. *Not sure what I was thinking.

*It's a good idea, Mann. *In the past, I've always thought that only the death of strong Force user would leave an imprint, but it's possible other extreme circumstances could as well. *Hopefully, Lucas will provide an explanation.

[LordTyranus]

Originally posted by Foozbond@July 19 2002 - 15:34
And like someone said earlier, Naboo is in the Star Wars Galaxies game, which is taking place between ESB and RotJ so it cant be Dagobah.
That isn't true, the ONLY thing that matters are the films. Games, books, comics, toys, all of that stuff has NO bearing on the films at all, that is why this theory may prove to be true.

[Lonesabre]

Just a thought to the guys who believe the cave will be created by Dart Maul...

Didnt Qui-Gon die in the same place?!?

Maybe it is him who is creating it or maybe the combined essence of light and dark are the reason!?!

I realise this will clash with other threads and am not sure whether I believe it myself really, its just a quick idea?!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

[Angel_Blue]

I think that Naboo will be ravaged in the clone wars and then turn to Dagobah. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[chris58616]

What if in Episode 3 (the chances of this happening is slim), since Luke is hidden from his father anyway, on the way to Tatooine (sorry if I spelled it wrong), they stop on Dagobah to let Yoda off, and some how Dooku knew that they would stop there? We don't know yet if Yoda was helping hide Luke. Maybe to throw the Empire off, they decided to stop at Dagobah. Also there's a possibility that their ship could have had a power failure of some sort, which forced them to stop on Dagobah. Then thats where Dooku steps in to battle Yoda, and maybe Yoda tells them to just go without him while he fights off Dooku. Again, it could be another possibility. Naboo and Dagobah are 2 different systems in my opinion. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/censored.gif

[Angel_Blue]

They are 2 different planets in EU, but we don't know that off of movie info yet, so who knows of Naboos fate, personaly i dont pay much attention to EU but i still like it.Hmmmmmm.................... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[Lonesabre]

<marquee>Bump!</marquee>

Now heres a good topic that shouldnt be forgotten!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

[Darth Vegas]

The idea of Naboo and Dagobah is fine, as long as you don't bring the "lava planet" in the mix because Naboo's core is filled entirely with water, and has no volcanoes. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Thanks for digging this up Lonesaber.

[Obi-Stu]

Thanks Lonesaber

I like the idea that Naboo becomes Dagobah. After reading the arguments both for and against, I think it is quite possible.

[Darth Vegas]

The only question is:

<font style='width=80%; filter:glow(color=black)'><marquee>WHERE DID ALL THE PEOPLE GO!?!?!?!?!</font></marquee>

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

"Luke....you must go to the Dagobah SYSTEM!!!"

If a ghost of my old teacher told me to go to France, that would be a pretty loose directive. I could land in Paris, and I will have followed the instructions. I could also land in Bourges, and will will still have followed the instructions, as Bourges is also in France.


Dagobah (or what WE call Dagobah) could very well be the planet of Naboo. Never in the original trilogy is the PLANET refered to directly as Dagobah. It would tie a lot of loose ends if it turns out this way.

We can take the inference that Luke and Leia, being who they are, could in fact display memories from birth being as they are strong with the force. There doesn't need to be a long explaination for Leia "remembering" her mother, because if the twins are born on Naboo in Episode III, than her memory of her mother would be a memory that took place at the same time as Luke's recollection of Dogobah. "There's something familiar about this place".

It would also solidify the idea that Vader/Anakin left behing hurtful places in his life, like Tatooine and in this case Naboo.

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah but "the sixth planet of the Hoth system" is referred to as Hoth, may be the same case with Dagobah.

Is someone going to tell me where all the people and cities, technology went? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

By the way Luke refers to the planet as Dagobah, observe:

"Yeah that's it Dagobah. I'm not picking up any cities or technolgy, massive life form readings though, there's something alive down there."

[DblDwn]

Luke calls it Dagobah because that is the extent of the information provided by Obi-Wan. All he said was the "Dagobah System". No specific planet name is ever mentioned.

As far as what happened to the people and technology, I don't have an answer for that. But that doesn't mean that Lucas doesn't. It would not be hard for some sort of devestation to overcome the planet and kill all inhabitants. As far as where all the buildings are, some may be destroyed somehow, some may be in ruins on other parts of the planet which we never see, and the Cave (which everyone has a theory on) could really be the remnants of a specific building.

[Darth Vegas]

Maybe link will help clear things up. (http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/naboo/index.html)

And this one. (http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/dagobah/index.html)

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Martini]

You do realize GL can change anything that is in that crappy little database after he does EP3

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

The links show an interesting contrast to what we are discussing here in that the OFFICIAL site contradicts the films.

I'm certainly not trying to say that the official site doesn't know what its talking about, but it has an interesting twist in wording. It does refer to Dagobah as a planet (unlike the films...Luke refers to where he is going as Dagobah because thats all he was told.), but it also refers to it as a "forgotten world". In order for you to "forget" something, you would have to know it to begin with. We know Naboo now, but if it is removed from the starcharts(the official site says its not on any starchart), and left in ruins, we could forget about it in time. It could be removed from the starcharts much like Kamino was.

[stazittocagna]

It's funny how some of you are so narrow minded.

Dagobah was quoted twice in ESB.

One time was when Obi-Wan told Luke to go to the Dagobah system when Luke almost froze to death.

The other time was when Luke was on his way to meet this supposed Yoda. He mentioned to R2-D2 "There it is R2, Dagobah."

To me that means that the planet that he was going to was actually the planet Dagobah.

[borgmatrix]

Originally posted by stazittocagna@Oct 1 2002, 11:59 PM
The other time was when Luke was on his way to meet this supposed Yoda. He mentioned to R2-D2 "There it is R2, Dagobah."

To me that means that the planet that he was going to was actually the planet Dagobah.
That could be, but doesn't it depend on what Luke's information base is? It could be an assumption on his part, since Obi-wan never gave him a planet name. Or, like you said, maybe it is the planet name.

We don't have a lot to go on. I find it odd that Obi-wan would give Luke such vague instructions. Unless there's only one planet in the system, how could he expect Luke to land on the right one? If there is only one, why name a system after it? Does one planet qualify as a system?

[Lonesabre]

Maybe...

If R2 doesnt have his memory erased, then he would know which planet of the 'Daghobah System' Yoda is currently hiding on?

Or maybe the force guides him!!!

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[BothanJinx]

Originally posted by Lonesabre@Jul 15 2002, 01:19 PM
What if Palpatine wants to demonstrate the full power of his new weapon {the Death Star} and targets his old home world Naboo? {typical megalomania!}

But at this early stage of the Death Stars development, instead of destroying a planet it infact "makes a planet unstable" or "deteriates a planet" etc etc...



Im diggin' this theory more and more. A very good possibility But, it would mean the weapon would have to built ina short time..maybe a smaller form of the death star...hmm...we shall see soon enough =)

[Darth Vegas]

On the databank for Dagobah (link provided up top) on the official site, it says that Luke used the Force to find Dagobah.

Lonesabre, I too support the theory that the Death Star will be in episode 3, I don't think it will be used against Naboo, but who knows.

The second Death Star was built in less than a year, so the time is not too short at all. I still think however, that the Death Star will not be fully complete by episode 3.

By the way, ANH was the first test of the Death Star's full power, not nesseccarily it's first test, observe:

"I think it is time that we tested the full power of this station." - Tarkin

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Martini]

exactly bond, i agree. this is the answer right here on why.......

just think that by the end of EP3, the death star will be completed and will have been tested on Naboo. but when the laser hits the planet, it just scortches the planets land and leaves it a mess. so over the 20 or so years between EP3 and ANH, the empire will work on the most difficult part of the battlestation, its capability of blowing up a planet. that explains why the second death star was so easily made.

im sticking with the naboo turning into degobah. be a great shock to end this trilogy. just gotta think why Yoda would want to hid on that planet, maybe because since the empire practically destroyed it, they wouldnt look there

[DblDwn]

Perhaps since Obi-Wan chose to live on, and take Luke to, Tattooine, the home of Anakin's mother Yoda decides to go to the planet where Anakin's wife is from.

It would make sense that since Anakin's mother lived and died on Tattooine that he would not have a desire to return there. Perhaps Vader and/or Sidious believe that Padme dies on Naboo/Dagobah, or maybe she really dies there, so Yoda chooses that planet to reside because that is where the other woman Anakin ever was from and where she died and he was likely not to return there either.

[Martini]

READ THIS::::

i just thought of something that will make everyone think, i just dont feel like starting a new thread on this:::::::

why would mace or yoda or anyone let Obi-Wan train Luke on tatooine after he did such a bad job with anakin?

I'm thinking that something happens at the end of EP3, and both Yoda and Obi-wan are flying their own jedi starfighters and get shot down, sorta like vader did in ANH and just flew away. Im thinking this happens and they both crash land on the closest planet

[MegoHulk]

I think it's more likely that Obi Wan and Yoda are the only ones left, so they really can't consult with Mace or the rest of the council. I'm sure Obi wan chose to watch over Luke because he blends into the population better than the more recognizable little green Yoda.

[maddog62]

I think the reasons that Obi-Wan and Yoda hide on the particular planets they choose is directly involved with specific events that have happened on those planets and to be more precise in the areas that they live. My theory is supported by facts and let me line them up for you.
(1) What we know. Obi-Wan lives in the Judland Wastes in ANH
(2) The Judland wastes is the area were Shimi Skywalker is tortured and killed, hence leading Skywalker in the Direction of Darkness.
(3) Yoda lives in Dagoban(sp???) near the mysterious CAVE.
We all know something is up with the cave but what.
(4) Now 4 speculation. I think that the CAVE is ultimately were Anikan will Fall to the Darkside I think he will Loose Padme in a very similar way to his Mom pushing him over the edge.
(5) Starting to get deep now so hold on if you can. You have to places in the Galaxy that are pent up with Anikan Skywalkers two most Darkest Hours. (Lots of Darkside Energy)
(6) I stole this quote because its good and I can't think of anything better right now. So if its yours get your people to call my people Where better to do a crime but right in front of the POLICE station. Jedi knights are able to hide it these areas because it is so overwhelmed with dark energy that the light energy of just one Jedi would be covered and concealed very easily. The Darkside is so abundant that it acts like a umbrella and shields the Jedi's energy from Vader and the Emperor.
(7) This is why I believe that Sidious was also Sifo-Dyas Jedi Master. The Jedi Temple is so full of Light Energy that when people like Sifo-Dyas and Dooku go and do there dark side deeds(Sith studies on holocrons and erasing Genosis from the map) they are shielded by the Lightside making their actions undetectable to the Jedi.
(8) I will believe that this cover and concealment method is discovered through the Sith Holocron in the Jedi archives. (I do think the Novel says that Yoda knew that Dooku was tampering with the Holocron and that he tried to indocterate some Sith methods into his Jedi Powers) So I believe that Yoda will open the holocron and discover how the Sith were able to infiltrate the Jedi Temple and then use the same method to hide from the Empire for 20+ years.
So OK folks I got my shield up for the backlash so Holla Back.

[Rob]

Originally posted by Rinc@Jul 12 2002, 06:14 PM
As Palpatine was the senator of Naboo i'm sure whatever would've happened, he would have stirred it up in the senate in order to become chancellor. If the Trade Federation had gained control of the planet Palpatine would've complained anyway. But maybe he knew Amidala was strong willed and wouldn't give in, he didn't give that impression to the TF but that was just to encourage them to invade.
Had to comment on this one:

Sidious/Palpatine could have been from Cloud 9 and George Lucas would have written in that Padme was the Queen of Cloud 9 just so he could link Padme with Anakin eventually and have the little skywalker brat come from Tatooine to save the day.

I seriously think that they should redub all end battle footage for the Federation vs. Naboo space battle, Clones on Geonosis battle, and both Death Star runs to the theme song from Mighty Mouse. Just imagine your pilot swooping in and having the "Here I come to save the day" theme instead of the Williams score style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

It's all just bad plotting. Dagobah will not be the remains of Naboo, at least that's my opinion. If that were to happen it would be total cheese.

[maddog62]

Take a look at my last post. I put some work in it and don't want to waste it.

[Darth Vegas]

I like your theory Maddog, you had to have put some real thought into that. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Kyan]

In the Star Wars universe, they refer to individual planets as systems - as opposed to our understanding of groups of planets as systems. Go figure?

[Darth Vegas]

Yes he is correct, observe:

Supreme Chancellor Valorum:

"The chair recognizes the senator from the sovereign System of Naboo."

The refference Dagobah System, is to the planet and it's moons, not a Star System.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[SithWitch]

DAGOBA = DAYS GONE BY?
**With respects: DblDwn, Lone, Bond, Bendu, etal**

Naboo COULD be destroyed to cover Palpy's origins by
a terrible weapon that causes all technology
to suddenly go awry. That just might turn high-tech
Naboo into a planetary Gungaville, sans Gungans,
who I suspect are to MOPPED UP in the comic
series over the summer, along with Kamino.

In the Kyber Crystal novel there is such a planet
and it explains why Luke's craft was blinded and
crashed and why Yoda would be SO VERY ANXIOUS
to own a flashlight that actually WORKED (for a
while, at least....)

Then again ...
In the Visual Dictionary it says Naboo has an unusual core with PLASMA that is HARVESTED BY THE GUNGANS as well as the Naboo, and it is even a major export

The plasma is harvested by organic technology by the Gungans and keeps their bubbles bubbly, bongos bouyant and boomers ...well booming! Also, the HUGE FACILITY where the Jedi fought and killed Maul was a
POWER PLANT, harvesting the plasma for sale to other
planets. Their UNIQUE planet is just brimful of this stuff! and so the elegant and rich Naboo are like oil barons....

OK. I'm thinking PLASMA CORE would be especially susceptable (sp?) to a TEST VERSION of this new Death Star thingie. Then again Vader says the Death Star is "insignificant next to the power of the force" so maybe there is some Holocron that will make the Emperor's force lightning strong enough to sizzle Naboo, literally to the core...

It explains Luke's "force cave," the lava duel and there is SOME REASON that Yoda is hiding there ....

All they would have to do to tie this in completely
would be to CGI an ancient HEAD - a la Gungacamp -
into Yoda's back yard.

Did anybody else notice how similar the SOUNDS of
the Gungan swamp and the sounds of Dagoba are?
The "Owlish" hoots?


And, oh yeah. Mad Dog. Maybe MACE OPENS THE HOLOCHRON? would that possibly make somebody go bad? Hmmm. Personally, I think it was Jocosta Nu ...

[MegoHulk]

What the hell are holocrons anyways? Are they some EU stuff? Why would we suddenly see them in EP3? Also where does it say Naboo has a "plasma" core...it's core is water...remember them taking a short cut through the core? GL isn't going to throw in a bunch of stuff we've never heard of or seen before. Dagobah and Naboo are 2 different worlds. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[jbird669]

Naboo isn't Dagobahin my opinion. They are separate planets, and the reason that Luke remembers Dagobah is cuz he was there before he went to the Lars place on Tatooine. Obi-Wan visited Yoda one last time before going to take Luke away.

[NIGHTTRAVELER]

Vader could be "born" in that cave. Anakin could "die" in that cave.

[Darth Badly]

Naboo is not degobah.

That would be really really silly.

[Angel_Blue]

It could make sense though, naboo is swampy on some parts but there is still alot of things to prove otherwise, so its like 10% chance of Naboo being Dagobah and a 90% chance it is not.It would be cool though.

[Darth Badly]

It would be a really stupid idea.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Darth Badly@Oct 24 2002, 05:49 PM
It would be a really stupid idea.
It would be no less stupid than half of the other stuff that gets suggested on here while we all wait impatiently for 2005.

[SithWitch]

Thank you, DblDwn.
A true gentleman...

[maddog62]

Why would that be cool and how would it fit into the story? I just thinkwe waste allot of though on this topic that is just far of in left field and dosn't pertain to anything else. Can we all just live with the fact that with a galaxy of thousands of systems Naboo will just not be important from EP2 out?

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by DblDwn+Oct 25 2002, 04:09 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DblDwn @ Oct 25 2002, 04:09 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Darth Badly@Oct 24 2002, 05:49 PM
It would be a really stupid idea.
It would be no less stupid than half of the other stuff that gets suggested on here while we all wait impatiently for 2005.[/b][/quote]

Personally I'd put it at about 75% up the Stupid List.

Hey there's an idea for a thread.

Your Top Ten Stupid Ideas Countdown. They have to be plot ideas that people have seriously suggested will happen in Ep III.

No 10 = least dumb
No 1 = most dumb

I love you all.

[DblDwn]

So why don't you go and start that thread then?

I'm already guessing that you will put the majority of my ideas on the list although my ideas are all well thought out, backed up with examples, and are possible outcomes that you should prepare yourself for.

"75% on the Stupid List"? I hardly see this as that stupid of an idea. Stupid would be your homo-erotic fixation with WhatMeWookie and the senseless ideas that he presented.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Oct 26 2002, 07:43 PM
So why don't you go and start that thread then?

I'm already guessing that you will put the majority of my ideas on the list although my ideas are all well thought out, backed up with examples, and are possible outcomes that you should prepare yourself for.

"75% on the Stupid List"? I hardly see this as that stupid of an idea. Stupid would be your homo-erotic fixation with WhatMeWookie and the senseless ideas that he presented.

Well we can agree to differ about how silly an idea the Naboo thing is I guess.

I don't remember you ever generating any other ideas, so I certainly wasn't trying to imply that all your ideas were silly. Aplogies if that's how my post read.

Your comments on WhatMe are bizarre and rather offensive. I'm not sure why you'd suddenly come out with that?

I love you all. (But not WhatMe and not in a 'homo-erotic" way.)

[Mann]

hey, I like Naboo being Dagobah. It will have to be worked around, but it's better than just having Naboo disappear. we like creativity right? ???

[DblDwn]

Thank you Michael Mann

[SithWitch]

The "Naboo-goba" idea has some credit with me as I have a friend who worked on Episode I and told me this would happen. He has told some tall stories in his day, but why make up something like that? Then again, he also told me that they will clone Anakin - is there a thread on that topic? "I want to be the first to see them ALL!"