Survey: How Many Planets Are Out There?

[JediBendu]

They've just announced the discovery of the 101st planet orbiting another star. *I'm curious as to how many planets SW fans think there are in this galaxy. *Would all of them have life? *Or only a few with water? *There is the famous Drake equation but I'm hoping it's wrong. I'd like to think there are millions of planets, but none with life as stupid as us.
Opinions?

[Tovor]

I'd like to think there are millions of planets, but none with life as stupid as us.
Opinions?



Like Jodi Foster said at the end of Contact, if there isn't any other worlds with life out there, it seems to be a big waste of space

Regarding the question of other worlds with life as stupid as ours, I think God's a pretty smart fella, so I doubt he would have made the same mistake more than once. On the other hand, hopefully after he saw what became of us he didn't give up on the rest of the universe.

[JediBendu]

LOL!
I'm pretty sure that God would have given up on the rest of the universe after seeing us! :p

[Shoma Barad]

lol... maybe we were just the first draft... lol

"Whoa, they made a mess of things, huh? Well, I'll just go over here and create a people that WONT need saving..."

hehehe... God is kewl.

~~Shoma

[Jedi_Zachaa]

What do you mean you hope the Drake equation is wrong? It just depends upon how you put in the data. The end result could be ten million intelligent races... or one (us) depending upon what values you place for the variables. I don't see how it could be wrong.

I think there are lots of other intelligent beings out there. However, due to the law that no matter can go faster than light, interstellar travel is a pain in the rear end unless the beings have a pretty long lifespan. Hopefully there's a way to bypass the faster than light thing but it looks doubtful. I've been dreaming of meeting aliens ever since I saw E.T. when I was four years old. A couple of times I even tried to invite them to breakfast or contact them myself (this was when I was pretty young- 5 or 6)! As you can see, it didn't work. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Meche]

Well, if the theory about how our solar system formed is correct, then it's likely that at least half of the other stars in the Milky Way formed that way and have planets as well. Whether or not they have life is another matter, but I bet that some do.

[Senator Amory]

Let me refer you all to a scripture that I have always found interesting;

"The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."

(Deuteronomy 29:26)

I believe this verse states that there are certain, and most defenantly are, things that God has not revealed to us. For instance, one of those things might actually be that there is intelegent life on other planets, or that life could have possibly once existed on Mars. But He did not tell us of these things because he wants us to not get so mixed up in those things, to where they can terminate our salvation. We are to concetrate on the things he has revealed unto us, and worry about them 1st and fore-most, because those things are the things that give us our salvation and give us truth. And then, when you do live a faithful Christian life, you can try to find "little green men". Just as long as it does not interfere with your spiritual life and salvation.

And I, for one, do believe in the existence of life on many planets other than Earth. Just because it doesn't mention them in the Bible doesn't mean it doesn't exist. For instance, the verse I stated above. And if the life out there isn't like life here on Earth, frankly I don't want anything to do with it. I mean, if it the MilkyWay is like the SW galaxy, though we don't know it, I would love to be involved in it. But if it's like, highly sofisticated, highly evolved lifeforms and what not, I wouldn't particularly care for it that much. I would want to be around other humans from other planets, who have a society or something similar to ours on Earth. Only for it to have morals and not as much war terrorism that we have on Earth.

[DanielSkywalker]

Hey, Amory, you should check out a book by C.S. Lewis called "Out of the Silent Planet." I think you would find it as interesting as I did. It's a Sci-Fi novel about some people who go to another planet and find life there, but, unlike Earth, this planet never fell. The inhabitants of the planet chose to please God by obeying his wishes (unlike Adam and Eve), therefore the planet and its inhabitants are perfect and know nothing about pain, death, war, or sin. I don't remember everything about the book because I read it a long time ago, but, you should check it out. It's pretty neato.

As for life on other planets, I don't know. I just don't know. I believe many of the UFO sightings are hoaxes, but I recently saw this movie called Men In Black and it was about a secret agency that monitors alien activity on earth and somehow keeps the truth from everyone. I don't know how accurate this film was, but, it looked like some of it could be for real. Does anyone know if it's based on a true story or not?

Har Har Har ;).

[Pepper]

JediBendu, what's Drake's law? I don't remember hearing about that one.

My opinion is that there is no other life out there, at least intelligent life. Mankind is the top of the ladder as far as created life goes. Well, in a nutshell that's my opinion.

[tjedi1]

the think about MIB is tru itz mostly based on a top secret organization an the ppl who saw them who nows?

[tjedi1]

bout what i just sed itz based on an antholgy of stories of ppl who say they saw the MIB who now s?

[DanielSkywalker]

Hey, tjedi1, I was just being humerous about the whole MIB thing; but, thanx for the info anyways ;).

[Obi-Wan]

I don't think there is any Intelligent live or any live out there. I think God only created Humans and Animals. But I do not think God created any live in space. And if God did create any other live, I think it would be mentioned in the Bible.

[DanielSkywalker]

I think I'm with you on this one, Obi-Wan. I am not completely ruling out the posibility of there being extra terrestrial life out there; I just think that if there was, God would have told us. I don't know why we have this infinite universe, but are (as far as we know) the only ones who live in it; only God knows why this is so.

[Senator Amory]

<span style='color:darkblue'>In all honesty and truth, why would God have told us if there was life out there? The is a possibility that there is, but he didn't want to tell us, because if he would have, people would have lost faith in him, and would have sidetracked from what really matters, and would have no chance of getting to Heaven. Because they would have neglected to what they must do to be saved, in order to go to Heaven. Like in Deuteronomy 29:29, we are commanded to think on the things that he has revealed unto us first and fore-most, and then after we have done that, we would know the truth and be living a Christian life. And if we are living in accordance with his will, then we can study on extra-terrestial life. But if He, God, would have told us right off the bat about other life, we would have neglected the truth, and fallen from grace. That's the way I see it. Plus, the Lord said;

"For my thoughts arenot your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

(Isaiah 55:8;9)

So, if there is life out there, and the Lord hasn't told us about it, remember, his ways are not our ways, and his thoughts are not our thoughts. So he would, most defenantly, have a good explanation of why he hasn't. Our simple minds might not have been able to comprehend his reasons, maybe. I don't know. I'm rambling on now, so I'll shut-up.

See ya' guys later.

Daniel,
I'll see about that book. It seems really interesting. You are sure you got the title right, aren't ya'? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/satisfied.gif</span>

[Tovor]

And if God did create any other live, I think it would be mentioned in the Bible.


Why should it have? *The bible does not mention the gray mountain gorilla and it wasn't believed to exist (or it was believed extinct) until it was located in the early part of the last century. *Also, the Arctic Circle and Antarctica are not mentioned, nor are any animals which did not live in the Middle East, north Africa, or east Asia. *There are many things in the world not mentioned in the bible but are known to be real. *The bible is only concerned with the fall of man, his redemption, God's love, and His plan for the world and those who follow him; as well as how we are to follow him and live our lives and treat our neighbors. *The bible says that God created everything, that everything that exists was created by God, and that anything not created by God does not exist. *What it does not say is that God didn't create life on other worlds. *But if alien life is discovered, I would take it as accepted fact that it was created by God on the world of its origin.

[DanielSkywalker]

I know, I'm not saying it's impossible. I just have some questions about it. If intelligent beings do live out there somewhere, were they given a choice like we humans, or are they just creatures who will not and can not disobey God? Where I'm going with this is, if they were given a choice like we were, did they choose to obey God, or did they choose to sin as we did? I believe that the Fall affected our the entire universe; so, if there is life out there somewhere, I believe that their planet was infected by sin as well. Now, who will die for their sins? Do these beings have souls like us? Will they go to heaven or hell when they die? Do they die? These are questions that aren't so easily answered. Did Christ die for their sins as well as ours? If so, then they would know about us, but, we wouldn't know about them. See what I mean? This opens up a whole big can of worms. This is a theological issue, so, I'm sure that many of you will not understand what in the heck I'm talking about, but, the Christians on this thread might see where I'm coming from.

PS. Yeah, I got the title right, Amory. It's "Out of the Silent Planet" by C.S. Lewis.

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by Jedi_Zachaa@July 08 2002 - 15:09

What do you mean you hope the Drake equation is wrong?

I was referring to the self anhilation factor built into the equation. I find it amusing that in considering alien lifeforms we would automatically assume that they would also have an internal drive for conflict and self destruction. Typical human arrogance.
Technically the Drake Equation doesn't give a number of possible planets with life, rather it gives an estimation on the number who could communicate with us. Drake and the Project Ozma group assumes that actual physical contact would be impossible given the realities of interstellar distances. They believed that any form of contact would be in the form of variations in radio frequencies corresponding to hydrogen emmissions. The Drake Equation:

N=R*fs*fp*ne*fl*fi*fc*L

R= rate of star formation
fs= fraction of stars with suitable suns for planets
fp= fraction of suitable suns with planets
ne= number of planets that are located in the Habitable Zone
fl= fraction of planets where life originates
fi= fraction of these planets where intelligent life arises
fc= fraction of these planets where the intelligent life can communicate over interstellar distances
L= mean lifetime of such a civilisation before it ends

[Senator Amory]

<span style='color:darkblue'>Daniel,

If God did create life on other planets, and also created them in their image, GodHead("Let us make man in our own image"), then He did create them like he created us, and Hw also would have given them free will. Becuase He wants us to love Him with all our hearts, with all our minds, and with all our souls, and not just blindly go around simply doing every thing He programs us to do, what would be the point of our existance? If they chose fall, then they would be like us and would have had to have a saviour like us. God would have most defenantly gone to their planet, born as a man, like Jesus did, and would have saved his people from their sins like he did with us. It's not so hard to understand when you consider all the possible conclusions. And when they die, I fell that they would either go to the same Heaven or Hell that we will go to as well. But if they did not choose to fall, then they still live on a perfect world where they know now sins, hate agression or evil. But might I mind you that, even if Adam and Eve would have eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the chance for someone eale to do it was there. So whe could have still ended up in the same situation. As they might still end up, if they haven't fallen already.

Few, that's a lot of writting, I'll let you guys rest for a moment. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Bye,
Senator Amory style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif</span>

[DanielSkywalker]

Well, Amory, I'm sorry, but the Bible states that the only way to eternal life is through Jesus Christ; there is no other way. God can't just make another part of himself to die for another planet that screwed up; Jesus is God's ONLY Son, there is not another. So, that means that Jesus would have had to have died for these beings' sins as well, and since Jesus lived and died on Earth, they would most likely know about Earth. They would know we exist, but we would not know that they exist. Besides, do you believe that the rest of the universe was not affected by the Fall? I believe it was. Everything that exists is degenerating as a result of sin.

[Senator Amory]

No, I believe that the only thing affected by sin was our natural status as beings. At first, we were sinless, and did not know death(spiritual death, Hell). Hell was only, originaly, supposed to be for the devil and his angels who rebelled against God before man was created. But then, after man ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, then it was also prepared for us also. Remember God's ultimate words to Adam and Eve, "Ye shall surly die."?

Here's what I think about the situation before man ate of the fruit of the "tree of knowledge.": If they didn't eat that fruit, then man would not have died physically, but would have painlessly been transfigured, as Elijah, and would have gone up into Heaven, sense man knew no sin, they would not have died spiritualy as to go to Hell.

But now, we know sin, and we can die a spiritual death. And that is why Jesus came to save us from that spiritual death. But no, I don't think the whole universe was changed souly on our mistakes. I believe that Jesus only came to save us and us only, not the whole universe. If he came to save the whole universe, then that means that animals have souls and planets, even rocks have souls. But we know they don'y. And we know that Christ only came to save us because the angel told Joseph:

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
(Matthew 1:21)

So I believe that God came to this earth to die from only our, us human's, sins, while if a race on another planet fell spiritually, then God, obviously having a similar religion on that planet, would have gone to them and would have died only for their sins as well. Just because God told Noah to build an Ark to protect people from the Great Flood, doesn't mean that those possible people on that other planet were commanded to do the same. For all we know, they could have been commanded to build a fire shelter for a Great Fire on their planet. Maybe that was Mars, and maybe they didn't do as God commanded, so they all died. No one knows.

But no, I don't think man's spiritual fall effected the whole physical universe. I think this universe has been going on the way it was intended to from it's beginning, even if man hadn't spiritually fallen. The only thing that physically changed was rain. Because it never rained from the sky until the Great Flood of Noah's days.

[DanielSkywalker]

Did I say that animals or rocks have souls? *No, I didn't. *I do believe, however, that all that we know was affected by the Fall. *Before Adam and Eve sinned, the lion and the lamb lived in harmony; there were no carnivors (Isaiah 11:6-8 tells of how it will one day be like it was before the Fall.). *Man did not eat meat (they were vegans). *The first death was when God killed the beast to make Adam and Eve's clothes; before this there was NO death, NO pain, NO inconvenience; creation was good (perfect) as God said it was. *Now, in this day, the lions, tigers, and bears (Oh my! ) eat meat and are quite dangerous to us humans and other animals. *There are numerous insects and bugs that suck blood and can cause infection. *We have disease and problems with our environment. *Wouldn't you agree that things in this world (and the rest of the universe) degenerate and eventually deteriorate to nothing? *I don't believe things degenerated before the fall; I believe that if Adam and Eve hadn't sinned, that objects would have maintained their integrity no matter how old they got. *Much like how Adam and Eve would have never grown old and died. *Like I said, everything we know was affected by the Fall. *Nothing about our universe is without flaw.

[Mjade2005]

i like to believe that there is life out there, but they are smarter then us, humans

[JediBendu]

by the time we've actually managed to fix this planet, learnt to live with one another, and respect life itself, perhaps we'll be a lot smarter as well.
Then again, the sun has more of a chance going nova than that happening :D

[Senator Amory]

Why does everyone tend to believe that if there is itellegent life out there, that they would be smarter than us humans. I just don't understand that? I don't wish to be rude but, people always tend to downplay the intelegence of our own being. But maybe, just maybe couldn't that itellegent life out on some distant planet possibly be in the same stage we are in, and just don't know how to get in their flying saucers and go billions of lightyears out of their way just to scare the baggebles out of us humans. Why does every body think that they are always far more advanced than we are. Okay, maybe they possibly are, but it is also possible that they only know just as much as we know, and wonder if there is possible life on another planet from theirs, or they might even still be in their "ancient" or "medieval" days. I don't know. And Daniel, even though man's spirtual fall did effect our physical world, in a punishement to us, that doesn't mean that it just had to have affected other people on other planets as well. I fell that God, would have some how, had some divine intervention with that. Don't you? Why would they just have to be punished by our mistakes. I fell that they would have had the same choice as we were given. And more power to them if they didn't take the wrong step. But I just don't see how God would have let our punishment, from our wrong decisions, effect them, if they didn't do anything wrong. I believe that God is All Powerfull and Omni Present, and would have the power to keep our punishment from effecting other people of different worlds, if they did nothing wrong. However, if they did fall as we did, then they would have needed their own Savior, God coming to their world to free them from their sins that they make. While Jesus came to our world to free us from our sins. Do you understand where I'm trying to get at, or do you still not understand how God could have made two different religions for two different worlds as He would have seen fit in his own view, or what? Again, please don't think me rude.

Senator Amory

[Meche]

Not everyone tends to believe that intelligent life out there is smarter than us. We all know that it's possible that we're more advanced than the others. But with the large amount of stars with possible planets and intelligent life, it's also possible that they are more advanced. And to be honest, we don't always downplay our intelligence; quite the opposite happens too. I'm sure a lot of people are turned off by how arrogant others can be. Depends on where you look.

[Senator Amory]

I'm sure a lot of people are turned off by how arrogant others can be.

<span style='color:darkblue'>Meche,

I wasn't trying to be arrogant, I was trying to ask people that don't they realize that it is possible that we just might be as advanced or even more advanced than they are? And yeah, it is possible that they are more advanced than us. And if they might want to achieve intergalactic peace with us, why don't they just land their space ships, and and come on out and say so in bright daylight. Instead of always hovering around at night time and scaring people. And I don't care what language they speak, if they are more advanced than we are, they would most likely know how to stay hear a while and pick up on our language, or have one of their offspring live here and grow up around humans and pick up our language to be an interpreter when it gets old enough, if the grown ones haven't picked up on our language by then. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif</span>

[Meche]

Well, when I mentioned arrogance, I wasn't talking about you. *I simply tried to give one reason why a lot of people hesitate before saying that we are the most intelligent.

I'm sure that most people realize that if there is other life, they can easily be more or less advanced than us, it could go either way, don't think they don't. *And if they are more advanced, it doesn't necessarily mean they can travel to other solar systems or galaxies. *We can be more advanced and land people on Mars, and still not be able to travel interstellar distances and visit other civilizations.

[Senator Amory]

Yeah, I know. Man, that would be sooo cool to be able to go to Mars. You know what, they have actually found ways to make Mars livable? Here's what they could do;

They could sent mirror satellites to reflect and melt the polar ice caps of Mars, since they are "water ice", and then that water would run into the planets lowerlevels creating possible oceans and lake, and possibly evaporate, creating possible rain. And we could then cultivate plants there since planets breath carbon dioxide, which makes up most of Mars' atmosphere. And the plants would, in turn, "exhale" oxygen. Thereby making the air, and atmosphere, on Mars breatrhable. Then, we could send animal there and see how they react to the surroundings, and if they do fine, we, humans, could go to Mars ourselves. And that would be totaly cool! If they would let me, and if I knew I would go there okay and get back to Earth okay, I would defenantly be on that shuttle ready to launch! Yeah! Pretty neat huh? I gathered this information from many different sources. Books and web-sites. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[DanielSkywalker]

Originally posted by Senator Amory@July 10 2002 - 18:04
Why would they just have to be punished by our mistakes. I fell that they would have had the same choice as we were given. And more power to them if they didn't take the wrong step. But I just don't see how God would have let our punishment, from our wrong decisions, effect them, if they didn't do anything wrong.
But, Amory, man suffers from the affects of Adam and Eve's sin. Neither You nor I had any choice in the matter; we were both born into this sinful world with this sin nature. See what I mean? Everyone born into this world after Adam and Eve did not have the choice that they had; we are born depraved. The only choice we have to make is to either accept Christ's free gift or reject it. I am not positive that there are no other intelligent beings out there; I just have some reasons for believing there probably are not.

[DanielSkywalker]

Originally posted by Senator Amory@July 10 2002 - 18:04
Do you understand where I'm trying to get at, or do you still not understand how God could have made two different religions for two different worlds as He would have seen fit in his own view, or what? Again, please don't think me rude.
Yes, I see where you are coming from, and I know God can do as He please, but, He has made it clear that the ONLY way to eternal life is through his Son, Jesus Christ. I just don't believe that God would make up another religion. I believe that if there was another planet (or planets) out there with intelligent life, then they would have to acquire salvation the same way we would.

PS No, I don't think you're rude; I enjoy discussions like this.

[JediBendu]

If they've managed to overcome the distances between star system, then of course they're a lot smarter than us. We have no idea save quantum tunnelling and the like. But then again, 150 years ago our main form of transportation was by ship and rail. Now were flying super-sonic jets and have just teleported a laser beam. What are we going to be like in another 150 years :crazy:

[JediBendu]

Had a conversation last night about the possibility that there is no other intelligent life at all. When you consider the current age of the universe (15billion years) compared to the projected age (untold trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions etc) then the universe hasn't even blinked yet, let alone taken it's first step. Also factor in the astronomical odds of intellent life evolving in the first place (a few asteroids, natrual disasters and ice ages) then I'm quite comfortable with the fact that we maybe the first to say hello. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[Senator Amory]

Neither You nor I had any choice in the matter; we were both born into this sinful world with this sin nature. See what I mean? Everyone born into this world after Adam and Eve did not have the choice that they had; we are born depraved.

Ahhh, there it is, "We were both born into this sinfull world. You said it yourself, this world. They are on a completely different world, if they exist. If God created a whole new different world, then he would have created a whole new different religion, but obviously he would still be the Supreme Being. Just because God would create Judiasm and then have it evolve into Christianity on Earth, doesn't mean that that is how he has it, or that is how it has to be, on a completely different planet, with a completely different people on it. He came as Jesus Christ on this planet to free us from our sins, now let me just make up a name for a savior on a possible other planet, I hold no claims that this is true,(even though it could be:p) while we have Jesus; if they fell, then God might have gone to their planet as Agadinomite Kreportinum, or something like that, and had saved his people on that planet from their sins. And he probably told them as well that there is no way through salvation unless it is through his Son, Agadinomite Kreportinum. Even though, he told us, here on Earth, in Christianity, a religion he created here on Earth, that there is no way to salvation unless it is through his Son, Jesus Christ. Why would God have made two completely different planets with life, but one religion for both of them, then the Saviour go to one, and not the other, and one knows of the other with the Saviour, but the one with the Saviour not know of the other. That would only be...so not like him. So, the other planet just might have a religion exactly like Christianity, just that God is probably known through a different name, as he is known as Allah through Islam, and he went to their planet as the same saviour to die for their sins, and known as Agadinomite Kreportinum, while he did the same with us, only known to us as Jesus Christ. You see, it is the same God, the same Saviour, and the same (true) religion because they would both be started by, and approved of, by God, but just would be known through a different name, on a different world. Follow me so far? ???

[Meche]

Hmm, yes, the odds are slim for a variety of reasons. It's believed that 1-50 % of stars have planets, plus you got to factor how many of those planets are capable of supporting life and allowing their molecules to get together the way they did here, and have enough time before their sun goes. Slim. But there's enough chance so that I'm not comfortable to suggest that there isn't other life or that they may be more advanced than us.

I hope that we are so advanced in 150 years that I'll actually be able to see for myself!!

[Senator Amory]

I hope that we are so advanced in 150 years that I'll actually be able to see for myself!!

That's exactly the way I feel, Meche. I just hope to live long enough to be able to actually live in the time of the far future and find out if things that we saw on Sci.Fi. movies actually came into existance or not. Who knows where we would be in even 50 years!? 50 years ago, we didn't even have personall satellites for individual houses, and we didn't even have the technology to make good digital characters, and even make them look real. But now look at the derastic steps weve taken not only in those areas, but in every other aspect of life that has changed in even that short amount of time. Now just think of how it could still change even more over a next 50 years. Cool huh?

[JediBendu]

They'll probably look at us neanderthals (sp?) and wonder how we ever got by on just typing on Star Wars forums.
Actually, GL may be considered a patron saint by then :p

[Senator Amory]

<span style='color:darkblue'>Yeah! LOL, Can you believe that our children are going to be like, "Oh...my...God, I can't believe my dad looked like so...not radical." or what ever the "big word" will be in that time. I can't wait till I have some teenage sons. That would be so weird, but cool all together.style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif Computer technology will probably be so advanced then that they will probably build like 3D or even 4D rooms where you go in, and you just say the site that you want to go, and you have this mask on that, for example you say:"GalacticSenate.com" and you automatically look like your in a room or something and you can actually virtually interact with the other users on that site that are there at that time, or something like that. I wouldn't doubt it. And are children, once again, are going to be like, "Oh...my...God. I can't believe you guys actually typed the keys on that old keyboard. Now we just say it, and it appears on the screen. Ya'll were like, so old fashioned." :sarcasm:</span>

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[DanielSkywalker]

Amory, I follow you, but, I disagree. God did not just simply make up a religion for us, He knew that when man fell that his Son, Jesus, would be the only way to reconcile mankind with him. God has 3 parts to himself, not 4 or 5 or 6, but 3. They have always been and always will be. You give this theoretical scenario of another saviour for another planet of beings, but, where did he come from? He's not a part of the Trinity is He? No, He can't be; because there is God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Is He God, or is he something else? Not only is this absurd, but, border-line heresy. I still maintain that sin has affected the whole entire universe. Call me stubborn if you will, but I do not see how anything contrary to this makes any sense. The only way another planet with intelligent beings could exist is if they have the same God (Creator) we have and the same Jesus (Saviour) that gives us hope of life. The fact that Jesus is the ONLY way to eternal life is one of the most basic tennants of our faith.

[Senator Amory]

I know that there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, and what I mean is, the same Jesus Christ here on Earth, could have gone to them, and still have been the same God the Son, not adding to the Trinity, but would just be simply known through a different name, bacuase I don't think some world som billions of light years away would speak English. See, they would be seeking the same goal, Eternal Life with God, through the same, correct saviour, Jesus Christ. The only thing different about him would be that he was also on a different planet, and have a different name. That's all. No addinbg another part of the Trinity, and no heresy. Not even border-lining it. It is possible, but we will probably only know the truth once we get to Heaven through our own saviour, Jesus Christ, and find out. :bored:

[DanielSkywalker]

Allright, I guess we're just gonna' have to agree to disagree. It was a very interesting discussion and I thank you for sharing your views.

PS Just for the record, I don't think you were promoting heresy; I just disagree with you that's all ;).

[Senator Amory]

<span style='color:darkblue'>Alright, I agree. To disagree, that is. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Chancellor Amory</span>

[JediBendu]

You guys are obviously believers in a monotheist god. However the pantheist variety would probably best describe it in terms of alien races.
A theist god creating another life form is a contradiction as there is no evidence of it controlling the affairs of Earth at the moment, hence it could not be controlling any other planet.
A deist god would imply that we are the only lifeform as god is no longer influencing any part of the universe, whether ours or any other planet
A pantheist god would allow not only us to be the only lifeform in the universe but also allows for an infinite variety of lifeforms to exist.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/alien.gif

[Senator Amory]

Huh? Okay, here's the juice, so to speak.

I believe in one God(please capitlize His name, I get really offended when people don't.) and I believe that He is All-Knowing and All-Powerfull, so I believe that He could have very possibly created intelligent life on another planet, other than only Earth, and be their God as well. And I also believe He is Omni-Present, which means He is everywhere and knows everything, all at the same time. So, I believe that He could have created us, and the rest of the universe and create life on another planet, and even know what they are doing, while He also knows what we are doing at the same exact time. And I believe that God still influences our universe, as well as the possible people on another planet somewhere. And this is contradicting any beliefs, it's just guessing. Like someone else said, the Bible doesn't even mention the Native Americans in the Bible, but they did exist. But does that mean the Bible is wrong, no. It just simply means that the Bible only let us know the basics to our salvation and the way to live our lives to achieve that salvation so when we die, we go to Heaven and live eternal life with the One who created us. But to say that extraterestrial life contradicts the Bible, and that if you believe in aliens, then you don't believe in God, that's stupid. Like I've been saying, if there is life out there, then God whould have made it, because God no doubtly made the planet they live on. Because it says in the Bible that

"Everything that was made was made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made."

I do believe that is how that scripture goes. Anyways, I gotta go now.

See you guys later,
Chancellor Amory

[JediBendu]

When I'm in the In the Light thread I will indeed respect your wishes. But I'm a tad agnostic so using a capital wouldn't be appropriate.
In any case...

I think the universe is teeming with life - it would find a way into every nook and cranny of the cosmos.
Intelligent life is a rare and precious happenstance, that may have happened before, but also equally, may not happen again. :alien:

[Senator Amory]

Although you are an agnostic, the word "god" is the proper name of a proper being that the Christians and Jews actually believe exist, so in respect to my beliefs and every other persons beliefs, I only asked you to capitalize His name as such. And you most likely capitalize the names Vishnu, Shiva, Bhrama, and Buddha do you not. So why wouldn't it be appropriate to capitalize the name God?

Anyways, about life on other planets, I do not even try to listen to what the odds are according to their finding. And heres why;

1 & only reason: Scientist can't even figure out how life actually came into existance on their own planet, much less on another planet that they haven't even actually seen with their very own eyes yet. So why believe them about some other planet, when they are still clueless about our own? That's what I would like to know.

[Meche]

Umm... well, many years ago scientists were still working on how the hell vaccines work, or figuring out how atoms work. Just because, at the time, they didn't figure out how it worked, it doesn't mean they should not be believed. This is how science works. They form their hypotheses, they test them, they do their experiments. It's an ongoing process. They're constantly uncovering new things. They are far from "clueless" or "unable to figure out how life came about", they're just still working on it and haven't done that yet. They have their clues, they have the ability to make connections and figure stuff out. I realize that a lot of what they uncovered goes against your religion, but in that case why should we try to explain this? Would you really "like to know"? If anyone is interested in all this crap about what scientists know about the universe and how they know, well hang in there, because I've been researching that stuff to post it in "in the Light".

[Darth Septima]

If I might interrupt..?

There are 7 living planets.

Wich god are you talking aboute? There's quite many.

Take care.
Darth Septima

[Darth Kyle]

I find it hard to believe that God would create such a large universe and not populate it with many forms of intelligent life. One question I always ask myself is why is the universe so big? It's so big that we will probably never be able to physically see, even with the best telescopes, even 1% of the stars that exist. God does not create things haphazardly. Every thing exists for a reason. If not for us, then for who? Are they there simply to comply with the four basic laws of physics and for no other reason? If so, I could live with that. I just don't think God would create a universe so large in order for us to populate one planet.

One of my favorite quotes is from MIB. It kind of relates to this issue:

"1500 years ago we thought the world was the center of the universe. 500 years ago we thought the world was flat. 15 minutes ago you thought we were the only ones on Earth [I'm not implying that aliens are here - just part of the quote]. Imagine what we'll know tomorrow."

One more thing: Someone mentioned a book by C.S. Lewis (I think) that had something to do about a planet that never fell. They never sinned. Therefore there was never war, famine or any other evils in their world. Just like what would happen if Adam and Eve never lied to God about the Tree of Knowledge. If they never fell, would they ever come to know Christ? We know Christ because he is our Savior. He bridged the gap between us and God by being the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. He was the pure, perfect Lamb. God knew when he created us that we were going to fall. He knew Christ was *going to have to live as man. What if we never fell? I think we would eventually know Christ, as well as the Holy Spirit because we would know God, but would Christ be our Savior? I think this line of questions may lead down a slippery slope about other life forms out there. Maybe it means that if any life forms do exist, they will probably fall like we did. The Bible does say that only Christ is perfect. I think you probably have to interpret that as being he is the only perfect being in the universe.

[JediBendu]

Actually we can view the univese at it's current size - it looks like a piece of coral. *It was worked out using microwave telescopes (I think). *They actually put a circle of where we are, not Earth, not our solar system, not our galaxy, but our local galaxy cluster - it's that big!. *
You're right about not seeing all the stars with optic telescopes (the best is Hubble of course) but we've got radio, microwave and X-Ray (Chandra) telescopes and a gamma-ray telescope will be launched soon (if not already - I'll check).

Yes god could have created only a single species to populate the universe. *Consider how short a time period it's taken for humans to 1. evolve and 2. populate every single area of this planet. *If we find a way to actually get between star systems our dominance of this galaxy would only take a few hundred thousand years, the local galaxy group maybe a million, the universe in maybe 100 million years. *Still a veritable blink in terms of the projected age of the universe and it will remain in relatively the same state as it is now, even Earth would still be around.
Does my head in sometimes style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif
Remember the dinosaurs had 150million years of evolution.

[Senator Amory]

<span style='color:darkblue'>Hey, good point. Maybe God put us here to start off with, and then planned for us to one day, populate the galaxy and what not. Oh man! Why did I have to be born in this day of age. I want to be able to travel around the galaxy like they do in StarWars! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif

Eeh, I still love my life, I just hope it gets better as I go along. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif</span>

There are 7 living planets.

Wich god are you talking aboute? There's quite many

And, I don't quite follow. What do you mean about 7 "living planets" and which God am I talking about?

When I ask for the word to be capitalized, I am refering to the only God who actually goes by that very name and title. Jehovah, God of the Christian religion, and the Jewish faith.And there's not many of Him out there, because he is the only, Supreme One. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[JediBendu]

Originally posted by Senator Amory@July 11 2002 - 23:41
Maybe God put us here to start off with, and then planned for us to one day, populate the galaxy and what not.
maybe god started this universe thingy up as an experiment which he's needed to leave alone to run for awhile. He could come back and find there's this pesky little self-determining lifeform who's somehow worked how to influence the quantum processing he meticulously setup to run without any undue influences. 'Oh bugger' he would say. Realising his experiment is now a total failure, he scraps this petrie dish in it's entirety, grabs a new one from the shelf, and begins anew. :D

[Darth Septima]

What I meant was, and don't get me wrong, but you might not want to be so narrow minded that you assume that your god created this.. It would be so dissapointing to discover if it really weren't so.. *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

I believe firmly that there are nly seven planets that are in some way populated. When we eventually out grow our planets we'll have to seek new homes. We will eventually need all that space. After a while the diffrent species will enconter eachother, there will be new species and soon we'll have our little Star Wars saga of our own. :lol:

I totally agree. It suck beeing borned now.. No lightsabers, no Force, no lightspeed * style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

If I could choose. I would want to live in the Andromeda, our closest galaxy. It's so beautiful. Some scientist think Milkyway is destined to collide with Andromeda in a couple och billion years or so. Maybe I can get a lift then *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

Take care.

[JediBendu]

I saw a lecture by Stanton Friedman, ufologist of some note, who's pretty convinced, based on alien abduction/contact occurances, that there's about 16 recurrent alien races that have been in contact already. :alien:
Then again
I've also read a report about L.R. Hubbard creating an inter-dimensional rift through which the alien grey archetype travelled. :hehe:

[bodhisattva yoda]

religion and science should be seperate topics, i think. but since god's been brought up... why would god create any sort of universe outside of earth (and the sun, i guess) if everything god create's is made for the purpose of providing for humans? and, i don't think the bible mentions every geological location and every scientific principle- that doesn't mean they don't exist. the bible's purpose in the first place was to compensate for humankind's lack of scientific explaination. to believe in the teachings of the bible is fine and dandy, but to take every word of it as absolute truth is just ignorant. it's like saying evolution is a conspiracy. as for life on other planets... wasn't bacteria or something discovered on mars?

[bodhisattva yoda]

i've got a question. does god have a *****?

[DanielSkywalker]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@July 12 2002 - 21:47
but to take every word of it as absolute truth is just ignorant.
Well, then you can go ahead and label me as ignorant, because I believe the Good Book from cover to cover.

[JediBendu]

yeah I know!

Isn't the Star Wars Compendium great! :D

[Meche]

Guess you're ignorant. The "Good Book" was written by fallible mortals who had far less knowledge of science than we do. Except you--that is, if you still believe that the moon would be touching the earth by now if it is billions of years old... sigh.

[Darth Septima]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@July 12 2002 - 21:50
i've got a question. does god have a *****?
That god is a female wookie :sigh:

[bodhisattva yoda]

daniel-how can you believe everything the bible says cover to cover? there are more contradictions in the bible than star wars...not to mention various alterations and translations. do you read the king james version? it's certainly not what i'd call the director's cut.

[Obi-Wan]

I do not know how anyone can believe there are other live forms out there. And all of the Bible is true. The Bible would not have lies in it. And God did create the whole Universe. Everything was created by God.

[DanielSkywalker]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@July 13 2002 - 23:11
there are more contradictions in the bible than star wars...not to mention various alterations and translations. do you read the king james version?
Go ahead, Name one contradiction in the Bible; I would like to see you do that. And, yes, I do read the King James version, but, I know a little bit about the Greek and Hebrew texts as well.

[JediBendu]

oh I don't know - I've always thought SW played homage to the Bible, one great piece of fiction to another, even greater. :0

Meche
I don't even consider the age of the Earth to be significant, let alone Life's evolution within it. What's a real spinner is the fact that the age of mammals was only possible due to a tiny spec of rock which happened to intersect our orbit 65m years ago. ONLY 65m! Einstein got it wrong - there is a set of cosmic dice rolling on a table somewhere.

[Meche]

Originally posted by DanielSkywalker@July 14 2002 - 01:58
Go ahead, Name one contradiction in the Bible; I would like to see you do that.
No you wouldn't. And I'm curious what you mean exactly... are you unaware of any contradictions, or do you actually know about the alleged contradictions but have explained them away to yourself?

[Meche]

JediBendu: I agree, the Bible is a great piece of work. Too bad a lot of books didn't make the final cut! As for your speck of rock stuff... sorry, you're going into territory I haven't learned yet.

[DanielSkywalker]

Meche, people have tried to point out "contradictions" to me before, and every time it has just been a misinterpretation or a lack of discernment on their behalf. I have never come across any contradictions in the Bible. There may be a few instances where the KJV could have translated the original texts a little more accurately, but, these instances are very rare and not that pertanent anyway; they're usually just minor errors with word usage. As far as contradictions, there are not any that I am aware of. Please, enlighten me; give me an example.

[bodhisattva yoda]

daneil. you pointed out a contradiction a while ago. how's 'thou shalt not kill' and 'turn the other cheek' and 'blessed are the peacemakers' and all that juxtaposed with all the old testament holy war carnage...
do you sincerely believe that the bible and everything deemed holy by the christian institution is infallable? what makes you believe the bible is true in the first place? don't tell me faith. faith in a god or spritual higher power or whatever is one thing. fine. whatever. but faith in book is something entirely different.

you know, your buddy jesus was one of those tree-hugging hippie social revolutionaries that you don't seem to fond of.

[Meche]

Originally posted by DanielSkywalker@July 14 2002 - 13:57
Please, enlighten me; give me an example.
Am I correct in thinking that you didn't really mean what you just said there? *You already do not believe there are contradictions and it won't matter what is said to you. *You ask us to enlighten you, even though you have already decided that nothing we can say will enlighten you. *So why should I try? You're just being arrogant. It's my cue to back out.

[DanielSkywalker]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@July 14 2002 - 14:52
daneil. you pointed out a contradiction a while ago. how's 'thou shalt not kill' and 'turn the other cheek' and 'blessed are the peacemakers' and all that juxtaposed with all the old testament holy war carnage...
do you sincerely believe that the bible and everything deemed holy by the christian institution is infallable? what makes you believe the bible is true in the first place? don't tell me faith. faith in a god or spritual higher power or whatever is one thing. fine. whatever. but faith in book is something entirely different.

you know, your buddy jesus was one of those tree-hugging hippie social revolutionaries that you don't seem to fond of.
There is a difference between revenge and justice. Jesus wants his followers to be peaceful and slow to wrath, but that does not mean that we are not to enforce the law. If one takes an innocent life, then he forfeits his right to live. If one commits a crime, then he must be punished. Can you not see the difference between one who has murdered and one who is innocent? There is a distinct difference between the two; one deserves death one does not.

God gave Israel the ability to destroy it's enemies and there are many good reasons why these enemies deserved what they got. I know it may seem harsh to some, but, God had good reason for allowing Israel to wipe out some of these sinful civilizations. they were in full rebellion against God and were commiting all sorts of atrocities.

I believe in the Bible because I believe it is fully inspired by my Lord and Saviour. If I did not believe it to be true, what would even be the point in being a Christian? I do not claim to understand all of it; there are many questions I plan on asking God when this life is over, but, I know what I believe, and I know why I believe it. I have no reason not to believe it is true; there are no other books or religious writings that are as historically accurate and God inspired as the Holy Bible is.

And, as for the comment about Jesus being a hippie, that's just silly. Where did that come from? It is clear that you just don't like Christians and enjoy being as offensive as possible. Apparently you were not taught respect and reverence as a child. There has never been and never will be another man like Jesus Christ, and I am very offended when people speak about him like he was just another dude. Show some respect.

PS Meche, I admit, that comment you quoted might have been written with a tad bit of sarcasm ;).

[Obi-Wan]

Yoda, how can you say that about Jesus? The Bible is true from begining to end. And one day everyone will know that.

[bodhisattva yoda]

what. judgement day? i look forward to it.

yeah daniel, sure there's a difference. however, the bible says 'thou shalt not kill'... there's no small print underneath it. and jesus didn't teach people to be slow to wrath... he taught people to be without wrath. name one instance that jesus ever taught people to be wrathful. he didn't say 'turn the other cheek UNLESS'...

do you folks, daniel and obi-wan, believe that if one doesn't accept jesus christ as their lord and savior that they're doomed to an eternity of hellfire and the like?

[Obi-Wan]

Yes it is Judgement Day. And if someone does not accept Jesus Christ as there Lord and Savior they will spend an eternity in Hell. But God gives everyone a chance to get saved. He does not like to see anyone go to Hell.

[Teek]

Yes, Daniel, that was sarcastic and unneeded. I don't think trying to debate with you on that would even be worthwhile. In any case you guys have drifted off topic. You should take this to the religion thread if it's going to continue at all.

[Darth Septima]

wow. Youre quite a ignorant lot.. Ever thought of that there might be other ideas in this universe than your own.. :sarcasm:

I'm not Christian myself but I belive that the Bible was written as a guideline not a law. Feel free to apply it any time but it still doesn't contain anrwes for everything. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hmmm.gif

What's this thread aboute anyways? Space right?

I still think there are seven civilisations that will populate the universe. We're in a galactic stoneage! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/alien.gif

[Meche]

Why seven?

I'll copy some numbers from my astronomy textbook; the chances of certain things occuring. The first number is pessimistic, the second is optimistic (except in the first choice).

Estimates of:
Number of stars per galaxy: 2 X 10^11 (i.e. two trillion)
Fraction of stars with planets: 0.01 - 0.5 (so that answers the original question, estimated 1% to 50% of stars per galaxy have planets)
Number of planets per star that lie in life zone for longer than 4 billion years: 0.01 - 1
Fraction of suitable planets on which life begins: 0.01 - 1
Fraction of life forms that evolve to intelligence: 0.01 - 1
Fraction of star's life during which a technological society survives: 10^-8 - 10^-4
Number of communicative civilizations per galaxy: 2 X 10^-5 - 10 X 10^6

If the pessimistic estimates are correct, we're the only ones in our galaxy capable of communicating. If optimistic, then we don't have to search too much longer.

[Teek]

Darth Septima, please refrain from calling people ignorant.

[bodhisattva yoda]

has anyone read any philip k. dick? anyone interested in religion and aliens should read valis.

[DanielSkywalker]

I have nothing more to add to this conversation; I have stated my views and I'm sticking by them. Everyone here is pretty much already set in their ways, so there is really no need to go back and forth, back and forth. Goodbye.

[JediBendu]

I put that 'bible is a fictional work' statement to stir - and it did. *This is an alien civilisation thread! *If you want to talk about god's role, do it in reference. *Daniken's Chariots of the Gods series (although severely debunked nowadays) could have been used to support 1. humans being on this planet and 2. aliens from other systems.

Actually, that's a great B-line. *How many of you are familiar with the work collating all earth's ancient relics/temples/structures etc and collating them with star positions approx 12 500 years ago?


oh and Septima
Stoneage? Try the 'Age of Bacteria' :p

[Darth Septima]

Meche> Dunno, seven is a nice number isn't it? :sigh:

"not much longer" That could be decades in our time.. But eveolution must've taken place elsewhere too. Maybe there's loads of life in space. We might just be looking at the wrong things. Water is a nesessity for life to grow, scientist claims. For us it is. All the creatures that live on Earth. Other beeings might not need water and so on.. *lost in her own argument*

Teek> Ok.

Bendu> Bacteria.. hmm.. ok, I'd buy that :alien:

[JediBendu]

Meche
You got that from an astronomy book - cool! resembles the Drake Equation pretty closely

B.Yoda
ya P.K. Dick is a legend. But you should also read Radio Free Albemuth and The Transmigration of Timothy Archer if you want to get into his god stuff. There's also Eye in the Sky which will blow your head off! Personally I prefer is deranged paranoid schizo stuff

Septima
we have to start looking somewhere - using our own evolution conditions as a starting point is as good a place to start as any. But you're right, while we can recognise life, we probably can't recognise intelligent life because we're looking for something in our own image. Something that we can point to and say 'yes that must be another lifeform because I can use my own sensory apparatus and see it'. If life can evolve anywhere (which I'm pretty sure it can) then intelligent life can evolve from anything, in anyform, not necessarily paralleling our own evolution.

[bodhisattva yoda]

i own about ten philip k. dick books... i have yet to read eye in the sky though... it's been a while since i've read anything by him... i should reread everything i own.

[Darth Septima]

*nods* My idea exactly. But ofcourse it's hard to look for something, anything, without any guideline so we will probably keep looking for something recemling something alike our own kind or the life we know untill we bump in to something else by accident.

Yes, I also think evelution happens all the time but in diffrent times. What if we find never "intelligent" life because we're in a diffrent time rythm than they or something? Will we learn to travel through wormholes? Will we defrost Mars to enstablish a "new earth" colony there or maybe on one of Jupiters moons?
I wonder what the view from Europa is like.

[JediBendu]

Half it of it would be filled with this bl**dy great big planet next to you!
I'd say we're probably going to bump into it by accident - seems to follow a generall unwritten human law: if you fall over something, it's probably revolutionary style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Darth Septima]

I tripped over that laundry basket yesterday, I don't see anything revolutionary aboute that.. I mean the gravity is deiscovered allready. :sarcasm:

I wonder if you ever would fell as though you where going to be crushed any second by that bl**dy great big planet you talked aboute. It would probably be awfully dark out there and less gravity so that it's more likely to tripp over laundry baskets any time as they hoover around in kneeheight :crazy:

I feel with slight disapointment that our encounters with other life in space would more resemble the 2001 Space Odessy than Star Wars och Star Trek.

[JediBendu]

It couldn't be dark - the reflection from something that big would be ample light.

I'm thinking the first intelligence we meet may be machine oriented - someone else's forgotten legacy a few billion years old. Of course we'd be wiped out almost immediately. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Senator Amory]

* There is a good book called "The Rowan" by Anne McCaffrey. And to learn more about it, go

Here! (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0441735762/qid=1027058600/sr=12-1/002-0245681-9624827)

* This is the Amazon.com page to the book, and if you click on the cover of the book, you can read the back, which explains what it is about. I hope you check it out.

[Vyndim]

<span style='color:000070'>Adding to the idea of life on other planets... Water is only required for life on our planet. There could be numerous other ways to sustain life that isn't carbon based. We and all life on Earth are Carbon based life forms, so what happens if life from another planet is not Carbon based, but instead a totally different element? Imagine the changes in the physiology. Oh its fascinating to imagine what other life could be existing in the universe. (I hope none of them are as boring or self destructive as we are. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif )Theres a flipside to this though that isn't so appealing. If we are to assume life comes from planets similar to Earth, we shouldn't expect anything too different. If nature finds system that works, its not going to change it. Meaning, if the planet has same basic gravity, climates, and changes in weather, don't expect to see anything too drastic then what you find on Earth then. Like the old saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." An example of this is marine life. Even though there are many different seperated bodies of water, no matter where you go, the basic physiology and blue print for aquatic life in general stays the same.</span>

[JediBendu]

makes sense - any life would have to evolve in this 'quantum sea' that is the universe. They would therefore utilise the same or similar mechanism.

As a B-line...

What about Artificial Intelligence? Do you believe it's possible? Has it occured already?

[Tovor]

How many of you are familiar with the work collating all earth's ancient relics/temples/structures etc and collating them with star positions approx 12 500 years ago?

I have a hazy recollection of seeing a documentary about that on PBS or the Discovery Channel a few years back. I think they talked about Stonehenge, and the placement of the massive stones matching a particular star pattern in the sky at a certain angle to the site. What info do you have to share on the subject? Do you know of a site where it is discussed?

[Tovor]

Maybe there's loads of life in space. We might just be looking at the wrong things. Water is a nesessity for life to grow, scientist claims. For us it is. All the creatures that live on Earth. Other beeings might not need water and so on..
I see your point and have pondered that for years since scientists always say they are looking for an Earth-like world around distant stars which may be able to support life like ours. *But what if there are aliens who absorb fluids through the atmosphere rather than drinking it, breath methane or hydrogen rather than oxygen, and communicate in sounds inaudible to our ears? *What if there is a form of intelligent life that is so far different in form and function than our limbed, organ-enclosed, air circulated by blood flow bodies that we wouldn't so much as consider it alive or detect its methods of communication? *There is life on parts of the planet here which we don't consider capable of supporting life as we know it, yet somehow life exists there regardless (Antarctica, the Sahara, 3 miles below the sea, ect.). *So why limit the search for life to Earth-like worlds? *What if there is vastly intelligent life floating through the gas layers of Jupiter, or adapted to the 700 degree temperature and intense pressure of Venus' atmosphere? *There could be life on worlds far different than the Earth-like planets scientists and astronomers hope to find orbitting distant stars, so I think that some of the limits they put on expectations of life enabling worlds are somewhat pessimistic.

[Vyndim]

Originally posted by JediBendu@July 18 2002 - 23:58
makes sense - any life would have to evolve in this 'quantum sea' that is the universe. *They would therefore utilise the same or similar mechanism.

As a B-line...

What about Artificial Intelligence? *Do you believe it's possible? *Has it occured already?
I believe its possible. While we may be quite a few years away from perfecting or even attempting it truely. I think the main problem we have is the idea of "learning". Humans and other creatures can adapt and learn, but machines only do what their told and when an obstacle comes along, unless their programed for that specific scenario, the machine will most likely keep trying the same method of approach no matter how ineffective it is. If we can some how teach a machine to "think" or "learn" from situtations then I'd say reaching true A.I. is not far off. However, I think this technology should be carefully watched because once you have granted fully functioning A.I. to something, you have essentially created a new life form. Meaning, we shouldn't just go out and give our toasters A.I. just to have the right kind of toast...

[Darth Septima]

Originally posted by JediBendu@July 17 2002 - 03:30
It couldn't be dark - the reflection from something that big would be ample light.

I'm thinking the first intelligence we meet may be machine oriented - someone else's forgotten legacy a few billion years old. Of course we'd be wiped out almost immediately. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif
No? Well I just thought of the distance to tha sun and the fact that the moon would be part time in Jupiters shadow.. but ofcourse. Jupiter reflects the light. Ah, I have almost forgotten all of these things. It was ages ago I did any astronomy style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

Beeing whoped out by another civilisations forgotten battle droid would certainly be a disappointing end. The odds aren't that high but I do think that it's very likely that we encounter traces of civilisations or life before we'll actually comes face to.. err.. "face" with the real thing style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/alien.gif . Some sort of space arciology.

I wouldn't want a toaster with A.I. It would probably end up making rude comments of my chiose of bread and refuse to toast it. :sarcasm:

[JediBendu]

On Anne McCaffrey - I've liked the 2 that I've read by her so I'll look out for it. Interesting premise - telepathy would be an ideal form of communication across interplanetary distances. Yoda's pretty good at it :D

On AI - I think it's possible, but I don't think we'll be responsible for it's creation other than we've already created the first network. AI would have to evolve self awareness itself - there's about 100b neural cells in us so maybe with 100b computers hooked up to the net - AI will say hello...or would it? AI's evolutionary pace would develop quite differently from ours given the speed of computing nowadays.
It would be great though to have a conversation with a computer about Star Wars.

On searching for life - preaching to the converted here Tovor style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif I don't see why funding for this and space exploration in general shouldn't be increased 10 fold! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif But in to prove life exists elsewhere in the universe it's logical to find where it has happened again and under similar conditions. To prove that mechanism of creating life isn't a fluke and occurs regularly in this galaxy, is to prove that life can exist everywhere.

On prehistory civilisation - probably caught the same doco. An astronomer had mapped star positions from 12500 years ago and found the corresponded to most of the relics from the ancient world. The Giza pyramids to Orion, The Sphinx to Leo, The Angkor Temple in Cambodia to Draco. He also went on about precession (sp?) lines which are also present in these ruins. All of it pointing to a knowledge or civilisation we possessed 10500 BC.
Really just a follow to Danekin's stuff without the aliens - but it was interesting. Enough proof for me to believe it anyway.

[Senator Amory]

Interesting premise - telepathy would be an ideal form of communication across interplanetary distances.

Yeah, I always thought that it is pretty cool.

To go into more detail about the book, The Rowan is a telepathic & telekenetic Talent. A Talent is one who has, either/or, one or both of these abilities. Each planet in the Nine-Star League has a Prime on it. They handle transportation, and communication(sometimes) with every other inhabited planet in the League. Rown is the [b]Prime[/i] of the, newly-colonized, moon of Jupiter, Callisto.(That's why I brought the book up.)
Anyways, Rowan is the strongest Prime ever yet known, even stronger that [b]EarthPrime[/i].(Who is pretty strong.) She can catch the ships, thrown by other Primes, with complete ease, and she can throw ships with such force, that even they have trouble catching. And remember, being a Prime is a very stressfull job. They control ships all throughout the Nine-Star League's area of the galaxy, until another Prime catches it. That is alot of ships to guide, control, and keep track of, all at one time with the help of some generators, that keep your mental power up(or try too). Although, I would love to have those exact capabilities, I wouldn't want to be held under contract and work my life out as a Prime. Even though they do get respected and treated like royalty of like a very highly positioned politician. If people know who that certain Prime is.

[JediBendu]

Telekenesis would be a good mechanism for space travel - I wonder if you could think your way passed light speed :hehe:

Jupiter's moon Europa is probably where we going to prove that life exists. Nasa's planning a mission to drill through the ice sheet to explore the Ocean underneath. The trick going to be designing the drill and probe so that it doesn't kill any life that might be there. It's still probably years away :(

[Das]

Just thought I would bump the least recent topic...for...fun...