Short term memories in the OT?

[RollaFett]

A question posed by wedge in "What do You See Wrong With the Prequels?" thread has intrigued me.
Wedge posted this:

Does anyone else find it strange that The Sith are never mentioned in the OT?
Now, I have always found that strange, but I seem to recall it being discussed on these boards in the past. I'll address it briefly however, and move onto my point of this thread.
The term Sith was never mentioned in the OT films, however, it was in the novelization of ANH when Darth Vader is introduced. Why it wasn't in the films is a bit of a mystery, but my theory is that Luke had enough to worry about and a Sith history lesson really wasn't necessary. All Obi-Wan and Yoda needed to do was make sure he knew who the bad guys were, and identifying them as Sith could certainly be put off for the time being. Too much to explain with that, y'know?

With that out of the way, I started to wonder about other basics that Luke didn't seem to know much about, if anything at all.
For example, when Luke is in Obi-Wan's hut, he seems to have heard of Jedi, but seems very confused when the Force is mentioned. Strange, no?
It's only been a little over twenty years since the Empire took control of the galaxy. Could they have erased so much history in that time? Wouldn't stories, myths, legends, etc. have existed about that grand, now extinct, order of the Jedi and how they were strong with the Force? Even if the Empire ran a sucessful smear campaign against the Jedi after taking over, tales would still be told, right? Even on Tatooine. I would think so.

Now, the question is why do the Jedi and the Force seem to be such ancient and obscure history when it was only a couple of decades since they were so prominent?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Yes, surely Luke would have heard stories of Jedi's using lightsabers?

Why does Obi-Wan not recognise R2?

[RollaFett]

I can live without Obi-Wan recognizing R2. Besides, you can make a case, with how he worded some things that he was merely being coy about R2 until he knew what the message was.

[Sluggo]

I can live without Obi-Wan recognizing R2. Besides, you can make a case, with how he worded some things that he was merely being coy about R2 until he knew what the message was.

Well, if one wanted an 'inside' answer based in the Star Wars universe, one might argue that because Palpatine blamed a Jedi 'uprising' for the fall of the Republic in Episode III, the good name of the Jedi was blotted out of history and regulated to a lot of simple tricks and nonsense, with Vader perhaps being the last of their religion.

An 'exterior' answer (and this is usually where my intrests are) would look at the phenomenon of of Jedi and Sith in the story narrative and see Luke as representative of the viewer or reader. With Luke being introduced to the Force, so is the audience. We are along for the ride.

Edit: I guess I didn't read the first post correctly. Remember that in the novel and the drafts of the script Luke was aware of the Jedi, to some degree or another:

There is a little static and the transmission is cut short Old Ben leans back and scratches his head. He silently puffs on a tarnished chrome water pipe. Luke has stars in his eyes.
LUKE
She is so... terrific. Commander?? You fought in The Clone Wars??
BEN
Oh yes... I was once a Jedi knight... like your father.
LUKE
Jedi knight?? My father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator.... on a spice freighter.

[RollaFett]

Well, if one wanted an 'inside' answer based in the Star Wars universe, one might argue that because Palpatine blamed a Jedi 'uprising' for the fall of the Republic in Episode III, the good name of the Jedi was blotted out of history and regulated to a lot of simple tricks and nonsense, with Vader perhaps being the last of their religion.

I can buy that. I actually tried to imply that in the first post but you bested me again with your mastery of words.
However, even if the Empire did blot out the good name of the Jedi, I would think that some good stories would survive the test of time. Besides, I doubt Luke would believe all of the bad stories anyway because he clearly expresses his hatred of the Empire.

[Talcy]

An 'exterior' answer (and this is usually where my intrests are) would look at the phenomenon of of Jedi and Sith in the story narrative and see Luke as representative of the viewer or reader. With Luke being introduced to the Force, so is the audience. We are along for the ride.


I wish more folks would do the same! These movies are written for us, not the characters. Rant over.

[Sluggo]

I can buy that. I actually tried to imply that in the first post but you bested me again with your mastery of words.
However, even if the Empire did blot out the good name of the Jedi, I would think that some good stories would survive the test of time. Besides, I doubt Luke would believe all of the bad stories anyway because he clearly expresses his hatred of the Empire.


Maybe Han Solo is a better gauge of what is is going on. It seems like his comment about 'hokey religions and ancient weapons' might be a good reflection on opinions of the Jedi. Since they have not been seen for the better part of a decade, people were up to their own devices to believe what ever they wanted.

Rolla, stop wuth da praises, yur embarassing me!
Talcy, I know what you mean.

[RollaFett]

Hmmm...yeah, I guess that makes sense about Han. Still, it seems like a short amount of time to dismissed & forgotten so easily.

Talcy- I know exactly where you're coming from, and I generally view films like that too. I was merely thinking inside the world of SW with this question.

[JackBauer24]

I think that people are forgetting that the Jedi, at their height in the prequels, only numbered 10,000. 10,000 in a galaxy of trillions of trillions of beings. We know a lot about Jedi because we follow their story, but the average Republic citizen didn't know much about them, and what they did know was distorted by local legends and myths and word-of-mouth. Add to that the fact that a large number of Jedi were wiped out in the Clone Wars and their reputation suffered greatly during those years and then add to THAT Palpatine's efforts at purging their memory from the galaxy, I don't find it all that hard to believe at all that in 20 years, people didn't know anything about them.

[Sluggo]

I think that people are forgetting that the Jedi, at their height in the prequels, only numbered 10,000. 10,000 in a galaxy of trillions of trillions of beings. We know a lot about Jedi because we follow their story, but the average Republic citizen didn't know much about them, and what they did know was distorted by local legends and myths and word-of-mouth. Add to that the fact that a large number of Jedi were wiped out in the Clone Wars and their reputation suffered greatly during those years and then add to THAT Palpatine's efforts at purging their memory from the galaxy, I don't find it all that hard to believe at all that in 20 years, people didn't know anything about them.

Oh yeah, that makes sense. Aside from numerical conjecture, we really aren't told how wide the influence of the Jedi temple reached. The formation of the Empire and the New Galactic Order or what ever it was probably was on a lot more folks minds than some crazy old wizards with their "supersticious hocus-pocus".

[Cassus Fett]

Why does Obi-Wan not recognise R2?

i really have a problem about that.

[JackBauer24]

i really have a problem about that.

Well, would you recognize a toaster you had twenty years ago?

[Wild Karde 66]

I think that OB1 does recognize R2 - take a look at the scene and it seems he gives him a coy look of recognition look and then when he said I don't remember ever owning any droids, he again looks to R2 as if to tell him to keep quiet. And I would think that he would remember that particular driod - they went through so much together.

The one that gets me - and maybe it doesn't belong here is when Luke gets into the prision cell he says I am here with Ben Kenobi and Leah jumps up saying Ben Kenobi? But you know what, as far as we know, she and Bail only know him as OB1 - even in the message, she says OB1. That one doesn't sit well with me - that is short term memory from an hour before.

But then again, it was the 70s and short term memories were pretty common.

[Darill Cyllem]

I think you're right on the money, JB24 about why people forgot about the Jedi.
If the Jedi were purged by Palpatine, what about Jedi sympathizers? Maybe they'd have been treated to Palpatine's "final solution" as well. Perhpas it was safer not to remember the Jedi.

[wedge]

Whilst reading these posts about the jedi being forgotten this question occured to me, in ANH when han, OB1 and luke are discussing the force why doesn't chewy chime in and talk about having known Yoda, and actually witnessing order 66 being carried out? surely at the least he'd have tried to convince han that the jedi weren't just part of some hooky religion?

[Sluggo]

Whilst reading these posts about the jedi being forgotten this question occured to me, in ANH when han, OB1 and luke are discussing the force why doesn't chewy chime in and talk about having known Yoda, and actually witnessing order 66 being carried out? surely at the least he'd have tried to convince han that the jedi weren't just part of some hooky religion?

An 'exterior' answer would argue that the movies were released 29 years apart and who knew that Chewie would know Yoda?

'Interior' answer? Ben never mentioned Yoda or the Jedi during the brief chat on the Falcon. I don't see any reason for Chewie to mention anything. Besides, the Jedi lost at Kashyyyk. Chewie might have been friends with Yoda, but with the Jedi being so easily wiped out, maybe the Wookiees lost 'faith' in the Force.

[JackBauer24]

Chewie didn't tell Han he fought in the Clone Wars, either, so I see no reason why he would bring this up as well.

[Mothman]

Whilst reading these posts about the jedi being forgotten this question occured to me, in ANH when han, OB1 and luke are discussing the force why doesn't chewy chime in and talk about having known Yoda, and actually witnessing order 66 being carried out? surely at the least he'd have tried to convince han that the jedi weren't just part of some hooky religion?

Maybe Han was only pretending to understand Wookieese ("You said it, Chewie."). Perhaps Chewbacca was telling the whole story all along, but nobody knew what he was saying. :scratchchin:


:bye:

[wedge]

I like mothmans answer best!!!:nahnah:

i read on the net the other day an essay on star wars that says that chewbacca was in fact a secret agent for the jedi along with r2d2, who were both deep undercover, and that they were working with Yoda and OB1 and later luke (unknown to him of course) in the OT!!!

[JackBauer24]

Maybe Han was only pretending to understand Wookieese ("You said it, Chewie."). Perhaps Chewbacca was telling the whole story all along, but nobody knew what he was saying. :scratchchin:


:bye:

Yeah, but it's canon that Han understood Chewie.

[RollaFett]

I think you're right on the money, JB24 about why people forgot about the Jedi.
If the Jedi were purged by Palpatine, what about Jedi sympathizers? Maybe they'd have been treated to Palpatine's "final solution" as well. Perhpas it was safer not to remember the Jedi.

Now this is a theory I can get behind! Nice work, Darill!

[RollaFett]

The Chewie question occured to me as well, but I forgot it originally.
But there are any number of possible explanations for that. Remember, we never really know what the hell he's saying. With that, I also like mothman's theory for that.

[Cassus Fett]

Well, would you recognize a toaster you had twenty years ago?

But R2 isnt a toaster so i would recognize him.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Yeah, I can see why Obi-Wan would easily forget a droid, but not a droid that he spent so many years with and who helped him out on many occassions. Maybe Obi-Wan was just being coy when he saw R2 in ANH.

[JackBauer24]

But R2 isnt a toaster so i would recognize him.

That's not the point. The point is that R2 is the Star Wars equivalent of a toaster. So if you were in the Star Wars universe, you would view him the same. We like to personify the droids because it's in our nature, but to most people in the SWU, they're just objects, no more conspicuous than a common toaster or microwave.

[csr74]

I would only like to add this: taking into account that even in their best times, most of the population had never seen a Jedi, and quite a few had never even heard of them, it doesn´t seem too difficult that they are nearly forgotten 20 years later. I mean, it makes things easier for Palpatine in order to erase them.

[Sluggo]

That's not the point. The point is that R2 is the Star Wars equivalent of a toaster. So if you were in the Star Wars universe, you would view him the same. We like to personify the droids because it's in our nature, but to most people in the SWU, they're just objects, no more conspicuous than a common toaster or microwave.

How are you able to read the minds of people in the SWU? People had attachments to objects in the SWU. Did Han think of the Falcon as just a machine?

I'm not sure I'm buying this example. The difficult thing is that there are all sorts of droids. Everything from simple, one task maintenance droids (hell, they probably had droids that were only programmed to make toast) to droids that were sophisticated to understand hyperspace coordinates and human-cyborg relationships. Further, if some droids went for long enough without a memory wipe, they start to develop distinct personalities.

If a person drives a car for a few years, or had a favorite tool they used frequently, they would recognise it some 20 years later (depending on its condition, of course).

[Sargoth]

With that out of the way, I started to wonder about other basics that Luke didn't seem to know much about, if anything at all.
For example, when Luke is in Obi-Wan's hut, he seems to have heard of Jedi, but seems very confused when the Force is mentioned. Strange, no?
It's only been a little over twenty years since the Empire took control of the galaxy. Could they have erased so much history in that time? Wouldn't stories, myths, legends, etc. have existed about that grand, now extinct, order of the Jedi and how they were strong with the Force? Even if the Empire ran a sucessful smear campaign against the Jedi after taking over, tales would still be told, right? Even on Tatooine. I would think so.


Interesting question. In the PT, Tatooine residents certainly knew of the Jedi - Anakin, Shmi, and Watto all mentioned some knowledge of Jedi powers.

In the OT, the only one on Tatooine who admitted knowledge about the Jedi and the Force was Jabba. By the time of the OT, derision was cast on anyone who practiced the Jedi arts. Motti chided Vader for his "sorcerer's ways", and his "sad devotion to that ancient religion". Solo called the Jedi beliefs "hokey". So while knowledge of the force certainly hasn't been eliminated, its relevance in Palpatine's Empire certainly has been mitigated.

Is it a stretch to believe that a poor farm boy who lives on the ass-end of a planet that happens to be in the ass-end of the Galaxy has never heard of the Force? Luke had never been to Mos Eisley, so he wouldn't have been cavorting with the spacers there. And from what we know, Biggs was the only one of his friends to ever return to Tatooine after being off-world. And I'm sure Jedi lore was not a required course at the Imperial Academy. :D

[wedge]

This thread started with Rollafett answering my question about the sith never being mentioned in the OT, and Mr Fett answered (quite convicingly i should add) that basically it wouldn't have served Yoda's or OB1'S purposes in training luke, and might have been to much info for luke to handle (paraphrasing big time here).

But wouldn't it have served palpatines and even more so Vaders cause, to tell luke about the tradition of the Sith, how they come in two's, especially in TESB when vader asks luke to join him so they can overthrow the emperor?

[Darill Cyllem]

I don't know about that... do you think that would have influenced Luke to join Vader in the end? Would that have mde Vader's argument more convinving? I'm not sure. Maybe an "internal" reason Vader left it out.

Good points, Sargoth - i'll just add that i think we all know how Owen Lars felt about the Jedi. It's not like he was going to tell Luke! :D

[Saranac]

Yes Luke has a very short term memory as he doesnt recall sleeping with his sister.

[Tovor]

Great topic Rolla. I've had those same questions for a long time. How could 25,000 years of Jedi history be forgotten in the span of 20 years? It never made sense to me. Everybody in this thread has great responses, but I only have time to quote a few of them.


Yes, surely Luke would have heard stories of Jedi's using lightsabers?


Why does Obi-Wan not recognise R2?


I don't see why he should, and I don't see anything that says for sure that he didn't recognize R2 after all. But his confusion was based on R2 claiming to be his property, owned by him. He had never owned R2, nor had he worked directly with him. R2 was Anakin's droid and attached to his fighter. So maybe Obi-Wan did recognize R2 after a short while, after getting over the confusion of his supposedly owning R2. Perhaps he was thinking, "I never owned a droid...but that may be R2-D2, my former padawan's droid, from 20 years ago...could it be? And if so, why is he claiming to be owned by me? This might be very serious...maybe he was sent by Bail Organa? I'd better not mention it to Luke until I know that he is ready to get involved in whatever conflict caused R2 to be sent to me...?"


Well, if one wanted an 'inside' answer based in the Star Wars universe, one might argue that because Palpatine blamed a Jedi 'uprising' for the fall of the Republic in Episode III, the good name of the Jedi was blotted out of history and regulated to a lot of simple tricks and nonsense, with Vader perhaps being the last of their religion.




That's an excellant explaination. I agree with it.


Maybe Han Solo is a better gauge of what is is going on. It seems like his comment about 'hokey religions and ancient weapons' might be a good reflection on opinions of the Jedi. Since they have not been seen for the better part of a decade, people were up to their own devices to believe what ever they wanted.


Rolla, stop wuth da praises, yur embarassing me!

Talcy, I know what you mean.


Whilst reading these posts about the jedi being forgotten this question occured to me, in ANH when han, OB1 and luke are discussing the force why doesn't chewy chime in and talk about having known Yoda, and actually witnessing order 66 being carried out? surely at the least he'd have tried to convince han that the jedi weren't just part of some hooky religion?


Spot on. Chewie fought alongside the Jedi when the Jedi were arguably at their height, at their greatest strength (in the eyes of witnesses, who knew of them fighting in the wars and leading as generals.). He obviously, by his contact with Yoda in ROTS, had great respect and fondness for Yoda, and by association, the Jedi. So why didn't he correct Han and tell him that Han was wrong, because he knew of the Jedi very well and had fought alongside them?


However, he was playing chess during that scene, so he was a bit distracted.


Another thing...we do not know what Obi-Wan said to him in the cantina, other than telling him they needed a ship. Maybe he recognized, Chewie did, Obi-Wan's Jedi status by the cloak he was wearing. Maybe he and Obi-Wan talked about his being a Jedi, and needing Chewie's knowledge of him as a Jedi to remain silent due to the imperial presence close by. That would make sense to me.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

^^ Again, I'll ask, is there a special edition I don't know about? :scratchchin: :blink:

[Tovor]

Not sure why you're asking this. Because we're talking about assumed or speculated things that weren't actually part of the films when they were released or re-released?
^^ Again, I'll ask, is there a special edition I don't know about? :scratchchin: :blink:

[Jedi Master Harrison]

My previous post was aimed at Saranac's post, it just so happened that we posted at the same time.

[Darill Cyllem]

I think Saranac and Melissa LadyVader should chat - they have similar senses of humor :)

[Kam Solusar]

Off-the-mark-slightly-left-off-center-in-the-gutter ones?

[RollaFett]

My current thoughts:

-Tov, you really worded my question much better than I.
How could 25,000 years of Jedi history be forgotten in the span of 20 years?
That's basically what I'm getting at here, and I just used Luke's apparent ignorance as my example.

Sluggo made a great point here that I sort of ignored previously.

An 'exterior' answer (and this is usually where my intrests are) would look at the phenomenon of of Jedi and Sith in the story narrative and see Luke as representative of the viewer or reader. With Luke being introduced to the Force, so is the audience. We are along for the ride.

This makes a lot of sense, as audience members, because we absolutely need some sort of quick "Jedi/Force for dummies" introduction in the very first film. I can easily accept that, from that point of view, however, I'm not asking from that point of view. But thank you anyway. ;)

Wedge posted this:
This thread started with Rollafett answering my question about the sith never being mentioned in the OT, and Mr Fett answered (quite convicingly i should add) that basically it wouldn't have served Yoda's or OB1'S purposes in training luke, and might have been to much info for luke to handle (paraphrasing big time here).

But wouldn't it have served palpatines and even more so Vaders cause, to tell luke about the tradition of the Sith, how they come in two's, especially in TESB when vader asks luke to join him so they can overthrow the emperor?
Yeah, I thought about that. Having knowledge about the 'rule of 2' would probably be beneficial to Luke, but again, I think it's something he could manage without. Besides, Luke knows that Vader is a bad guy. Joining him, even if the goal is to overthrow the Emperor, would still make him a bad guy as well, despite that Vader is his dad.
Also, if they didn't think he was ready to be told that Vader is his dad, why clutter it with knowledge that is even less important?

In reference to R2 and OB1. I already addressed this early on, and my thoughts have been echoed several times since then, but I'll reiterate my views anyway. There is nothing to indicate that OB1 doesn't recogonize R2. Just like when he's about to tell Luke the story of his father and Vader, he has some very coy facial expressions working, as if he's thinking about just how to proceed. Once he hears the message, he realizes all is legit with R2 and it must be the droid he knew years before. Plus, he certainly had no problem accessing the message either, implicating that he's at least very famaliar with that type of droid.

Tov posted this:
So why didn't he correct Han and tell him that Han was wrong, because he knew of the Jedi very well and had fought alongside them?
Something tells me that they've probably had that sort of discussion already and Chewie was probably just ignoring him at that point because he simply didn't want to get into it again.

Heh, heh...of course, the easy answer to all of these questions is that Lucas hadn't thought of any of these possible inconsistencies 30 years ago, so we're now able to pick it all apart!

[RollaFett]

I think Saranac and Melissa LadyVader should chat - they have similar senses of humor :)

:rofl:

[RollaFett]

Another lingering thought about Luke's knowledge.
It's quite possible that he has simply been shielded by Owen and Beru from such things as Jedi and the Force. that. It seems pretty obvious that Owen doesn't particularly want Luke turning out like his dad, so it's safe to say they know something about what happened to Anakin. Furthermore, it's pretty obvious that he doesn't care much for OB1 either.
So, based on these things, it's pretty clear that he wasn't told of any grand tales of Jedi adventures by his family.
That said, he is a 20 year old guy and has friends outside of his family. Hell, he has very strong feeelings towards the Empire that he expresses to OB1 when he first tries to recruit him. Where did those feelings come from?
He's knowledgable enough to know that the Empire is evil, but not know what they did to the Jedi? Hmmm...

[thepepgal]

That's not the point. The point is that R2 is the Star Wars equivalent of a toaster. So if you were in the Star Wars universe, you would view him the same. We like to personify the droids because it's in our nature, but to most people in the SWU, they're just objects, no more conspicuous than a common toaster or microwave.

I am still using the toaster given to me 17 years ago as a wedding gift.
I'm also using the same mircowave. I cook with them every couple of days or so.

So I definitely would recognise both of them anywhere. :wink:

On the other hand, things that have broken and I've thrown out (like irons). I would recognise the models but I doubt if I could pick my specific item. Unless I personalised it.

I believe Chewie would not revealing his connection to the jedi and they were goods friends and there may have been a life debt so he protected the jedi by keeping their secrets.

Since the victors write history and the propaganda it would be logical that most people would see the jedi as illusionist as opposed to heroes or keepers of the peace.

The sith had lay low for 1000 years and still had their own followers. So the alliance would have been the followers of the jedi and kept the truth alive but would have not kept a high profile.

Also just because a topic has been around for many years doesn't mean everyone has a detailed knowledge of it. How many of us can discuss ninjas in great detail? I know I can't. I know they exist and that they wield swords but to discuss their complete beliefs is beyond me.

[Mothman]

I am still using the toaster given to me 17 years ago as a wedding gift.
I'm also using the same mircowave. I cook with them every couple of days or so.

So I definitely would recognise both of them anywhere. :wink:

On the other hand, things that have broken and I've thrown out (like irons). I would recognise the models but I doubt if I could pick my specific item. Unless I personalised it.....


If you went to a garage sale and happened to run across a toaster that was the same model, color, etc as a toaster that you used 20 years ago, would you immediately think that this was YOUR old toaster? Or, would you think that this person was selling a toaster just LIKE the one you had, but it wasn't the exact one?

Wouldn't the same logic apply to a droid, which was a common appliance throughout most parts of the SW galaxy that we've seen?


:bye:

[Sluggo]

If you went to a garage sale and happened to run across a toaster that was the same model, color, etc as a toaster that you used 20 years ago, would you immediately think that this was YOUR old toaster? Or, would you think that this person was selling a toaster just LIKE the one you had, but it wasn't the exact one?

Wouldn't the same logic apply to a droid, which was a common appliance throughout most parts of the SW galaxy that we've seen?


:bye:


The logic probably would initially apply, but once start using the droid, you would remember or at least get a sense of Deja vu.

[thepepgal]

If you went to a garage sale and happened to run across a toaster that was the same model, color, etc as a toaster that you used 20 years ago, would you immediately think that this was YOUR old toaster? Or, would you think that this person was selling a toaster just LIKE the one you had, but it wasn't the exact one?

Wouldn't the same logic apply to a droid, which was a common appliance throughout most parts of the SW galaxy that we've seen?


:bye:

The fact I am still using the toaster means I would know it wasn't mine. As my third line point out I would recognise the model of iron but not my exact one and had agreed with you. If I had memorised the serial no like say R2D2 then I would recognise it.

[Kam Solusar]

Obi-Wan was very much a traditional Jedi and in his heyday eschewed attachments. I don't find it that hard to believe that he wouldn't immediately recognize Artoo. Especially twenty years later.

However, I'm willing to bet it he puts it together rather quickly. But why would he mention it to Luke? That brings questions he's unwilling to answer.

[Sarah-Leia]

The one that gets me - and maybe it doesn't belong here is when Luke gets into the prision cell he says I am here with Ben Kenobi and Leah jumps up saying Ben Kenobi? But you know what, as far as we know, she and Bail only know him as OB1 - even in the message, she says OB1. That one doesn't sit well with me - that is short term memory from an hour before.

She probably recognises the name Kenobi and judges that if a Kenobi came to rescue her, it would be Obi-Wan, no matter if he called himself Paperbag Kenobi or Ben Kenobi or Obi-Wan Kenobi. :scratchchin:

[Kam Solusar]

Hahah, Paperbag Kenobi. Good ol' Paperbag.

[thepepgal]

Hahah, Paperbag Kenobi. Good ol' Paperbag.

Better than "Wet Paperbag Kenobi" and "Can't Fight Out Paperbag Kenobi" :nahnah:

[Sarah-Leia]

Hahah, Paperbag Kenobi. Good ol' Paperbag.

Guess I just randomly put that down. I mean, even IF Luke had said "I'm here with Paperbag Kenobi" (shaking at the thought of that) Leia would recognise the last name, probably, and say Kenobi? Pap..er...bag...:confused: Kenobi? Where is he??

Don't you think?

Better than "Wet Paperbag Kenobi" and "Can't Fight Out Paperbag Kenobi" :nahnah:


:lol:

[Mothman]

I haven't gone by the name Paperbag since, oh, before you were born. :wink:


:bye:

[Sarah-Leia]

*gasp* Could one of my jokes actually have been FUNNY? :w00t: if so!

:)

[Blagr Diath of Advil]

i believe that when yoda failed to kill palpatine and everyone went into hiding that chewie went as well. When the sith took rule there wasnt meny people left to go into hiding, however chewie was one of few who new of the who thing and had fought beside the jedi. i think that he chooses not to tell anyone just the same as Yoda and Obi Wan choose not to. i believe he befriended Han Solo in order to hide his identity and make it look like he was just a worthless smuggler's assistant.

[Raganork8]

i believe he befriended Han Solo in order to hide his identity and make it look like he was just a worthless smuggler's assistant.


That's all chewie is...really.

lol.

Chewie actually supported the empire when it was the republic, it's not that he fought alongside the jedi (which he did) it just so happens they both supported the republic.

Chewie actually worked for the empire...correct? some kinda worker in a detention center.

[thepepgal]

That's all chewie is...really.

lol.

Chewie actually supported the empire when it was the republic, it's not that he fought alongside the jedi (which he did) it just so happens they both supported the republic.

Chewie actually worked for the empire...correct? some kinda worker in a detention center.

The Republic was a democracy and when Palpatine took complete control and a dictator, it became Empire. Chewie fought for democracy and therefore the Republic.

Chewie was a slave to the Empire. It hasn't documented when he became a slave but depending how you view ROTS Kashyyyk appeared to be under control and possible slavedom from this date.

Han saved Chewie from slavery and Han was stripped of his Imperial rank because of it. This is why Chewie bestowed a life debt on Han.

[Black Shadow]

Parden my stupidity but how do you know that

[thepepgal]

Parden my stupidity but how do you know that

Welcome to the Senate Black Shadow :welcome:

You're not stupid, I've just been around way too long and have absorbed lots of Sw facts. George Lucas has mentioned it as part of the back story to why Han and Chewie were together. It also has been expanded into stories but they are in the EU.

Here it is from the OS both Han's and Chewie's stories.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/hansolo/?id=eu

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/chewbacca/index.html

[finarvyn]

I know the "real" answer to this -- George changed his mind and so all six of the movies don't quite fit together in the middle.

In watching the original Star Wars the other day (ANH to the young kids) I caught Obi-wan's statement about not ever owning any droids. Um ... since Obi-wan hung out with both R2 and 3PO in movies I-III-III you'd think that he'd recogize one or both of them. Or perhaps they would recognize him.

[Darill Cyllem]

Maybe it was one of Obi-Wan's "certain points of view" turns of phrase... he didn't actually own Artoo or Threepio. I think his verb choice could be seen as relevant - he doesn't say something like: "I don't seem to remember ever spending significant amounts of time with droids like these...."
That would be a "within the galaxy" explanation, though I definitely agree with your "outside the galaxy" / movie production explanation, finarvyn.

[Talcy]

It's an old poser, this one.

To me, he never did own any droids. Ever. And how many golden protocol droids and blue astro droids are there? Must be loads - it's a big galaxy out there.

He only has two short scenes with 3PO in the entire prequel trilogy, in Sith and while he knew Artoo's name in that same film, I don't remember hearing Artoo's name in front of him in Star Wars. Although his suspicion might have been aroused when Artoo made his claims in Star Wars about being his property.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Jedi were not to have posessions. So, as DC said, from a certain point of view............ :wink:

[RollaFett]

He only has two short scenes with 3PO in the entire prequel trilogy, in Sith and while he knew Artoo's name in that same film, I don't remember hearing Artoo's name in front of him in Star Wars. Although his suspicion might have been aroused when Artoo made his claims in Star Wars about being his property.
yeah, but I'd imagine that he came across both of them many times over the years, especially R2, considering that Anakin seemed to have posession of him come the time of ROTS.

[STar war spUNK]

What about R4? was that not his droid? or no...

then again he's old as dirt in episode 4 so maybe he just forgot. :)

[Corandra Starshadow]

To my knowledge, Obi-Wan did not own Artoo and Threepio. I thought that Obi-Wan borrowed R4. As JMH said, Jedi were not to have possessions.

[Master Magnus]

I know the "real" answer to this -- George changed his mind and so all six of the movies don't quite fit together in the middle.

In watching the original Star Wars the other day (ANH to the young kids) I caught Obi-wan's statement about not ever owning any droids. Um ... since Obi-wan hung out with both R2 and 3PO in movies I-III-III you'd think that he'd recogize one or both of them.

As others have said, he never did own a droid. Let's face it: Droids are toasters, and I wouldn't remember all the toasters I've come into contact with.


Or perhaps they would recognize him.
C-3PO had a memory wipe, but it's possible that R2 remembered him...?

[Tovor]

What about R4? was that not his droid? or no...

then again he's old as dirt in episode 4 so maybe he just forgot. :)
I don't think R4 was owned by him any more than his Jedi fighter was. It was just a piece of equipment that was assigned to him for the war. And that's all that it was, a piece of equipment. The only Jedi that really formed any sort of attachment to his assigned droid was Anakin, as displayed by his defending of R2 against Obi-Wan's comments in the elevator. That's the way I see it. As Master Mag stated, he was just a toaster. And who would remember, or care, about their previous toasters, anyway? Only Elwood Blues would, as far as I'm concerned.

[Solo]

Wasn't R4 destroyed?

[Tovor]

Wasn't R4 destroyed?
Yes. He got buzzed and lost his head.

[Kommandant Felix]

Maybe Obi-Wan was just senile. Eh?




...



Yeah. I thought not. Just thought I'd throw it out there for consideration. When you get that old, things in the past get fuzzy, and unimportant droids are forgotten.

[Cassus Fett]

I know the "real" answer to this -- George changed his mind and so all six of the movies don't quite fit together in the middle.

In watching the original Star Wars the other day (ANH to the young kids) I caught Obi-wan's statement about not ever owning any droids. Um ... since Obi-wan hung out with both R2 and 3PO in movies I-III-III you'd think that he'd recogize one or both of them. Or perhaps they would recognize him.

Technically he never owned them as Obi-Wan never brought R2 or built C3PO

[Solo]

That's right. R2 was on Padme's ship when we first met him and he was responsible for maintenance. C3PO was Anakins. Obi Wan never owned a droid.

[Mothman]

In the original quote that prompted ObiKenObi to respond that he didn't recall owning a droid, didn't Luke say that R2 claimed to be the property of an Obi-Wan Kenobi? Ol' Ben's response was directly to R2's claim, which R2 had used to probably get Luke to possibly tell the location of the old guy, in case Luke may have known.

Didn't Obi also say, "Very interesting." IMO, that shows that there may have been some recognition of R2, but Mr. Kenobi didn't let on.




:bye:

[Darill Cyllem]

Good point, Mothman... i think old Ben played things pretty close to the chest in his later years.

I think I'd have done, too, if I'd been a Jedi who'd lived through the Purge.

[bruciarsi]

Dude was old. Im young and i forget that i own stuff :nahnah:

[Master Magnus]

Didn't Obi also say, "Very interesting." IMO, that shows that there may have been some recognition of R2, but Mr. Kenobi didn't let on.

Another explanation is that it's Obi-Wan's reaction to R2's claim that he was owned by him.

[Obi-Stu]

I'm sure Obi-Wan recognised R2, the real hero of Star Wars...

[Master Magnus]

Threads merged...