Religion

[mirax terrik horn]

ok i am a christian and i really like star wars and was wondering if anyone else was in the same category as myself. i mean alot of ppl have alot of different beliefs and i was wondering if anyone had the same beliefs as i do.

[conron_montyn23]

I believe in Yahweh(the hebrew and christian God), the only God. And I believe in Yeshua(Jesus) I dont celebrate Christmas or Easter, I celebrate Hannukah and Passover, Yom Kippur Rosh Hoshanna, and Purim.

People mistake the God's feasts (from Passover to Purim) with their so-called "hebrew feasts".

The Jews mistake these feasts as symbolizing God, and the Christians mistake them as being, "just jewish feasts". When really they are both wrong. The feasts symbolize Yeshua.

[Blizzard]

Yes, there are many Christians in the forum. But we have had to close our old religion threads due to disagreements.

I will leave this open for now, but if it becomes a debate thread I will close it.

[mirax terrik horn]

ok blizzard if it gets to be a debate thread i will personally come and find you and tell you to close the thread. ok conron that is cool. thank you for being informative i really wasnt clear on all the differnt things about those feasts so if you care to elaborate please do.

[conron_montyn23]

So I guess im kinda in between Protestant and Jewish... and yes I like Star Wars.

[mirax terrik horn]

yeah i am a quote un-quote southern baptist but not really

[xagete]

I go to the same church mirax terrik horn does, in fact, my dad is the pastor there. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif and I do love star wars.

[mirax terrik horn]

yep we go to a baptist church but like i said we arent really baptist xagete define us cause i cant.

[Justin]

I also go to a southern baptist church, but that's really just it's official name. Nothing really happens there that's exclusively southern baptist. I consider myself to be a non-denominational Christian.

Before this turns ugly, I'm going to assert that people who post in this thread need to respect each other's religious beliefs and not criticise each other for having them just because they are different from ours, or because we don't believe in them.

[mirax terrik horn]

ok justin completely agree with you on that one. this is a thread to find out the different religions in the star wars community and talk about them not argue about the differences.

[xagete]

Oh thanks, make me do all the work on your thread. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

We believe that the bible is without error, that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are all one God, and yet three different persons (please don't ask me to explain this cause i can't), that the only way to be saved is through faith in Jesus Christ, and that after we are saved we are to be baptised (hense the fact that we go to a baptist church style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif ). If I think of anything else, I will post it, and if there are any questions, I will be happy to try and answer them.

[mirax terrik horn]

thanks xagete like justin said baptist is just an official name.

[Justin]

Well not necessarily, there are some Southern Baptist churches that practice in a way that can be labeled "Southern Baptist," but my church is really just a Protestant Christian church.

[The Irish Jedi]

Hi everyone, well i'm a Roman Catholic, but i've been having trouble with my faith for a while now.

[Luvinna.]

Hey, wow! Another religion thread! I've really missed participating in religious discussion. I participated in the last one and was sad to see it degenerate like it did.

Yes, I do consider myself religious, and I love Star Wars. I think I love SW so much because I've found I can very easily apply it to my religion (and no, I don't consider myself a Jedi style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif). In fact, just a few weeks ago, I was in a religion class (we call it Institute) and we were watching a video on the Light of Christ. I just about started laughing because the narrator was practically quoting SW! Saying that the Light of Christ is "in all things, around all things, and without it, life could not exist." And I've also been known to use SW quotes in church talks. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

Originally posted by xagete@Mar 17 2003, 11:40 AM
We believe that the bible is without error, that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are all one God, and yet three different persons (please don't ask me to explain this cause i can't),
That's pretty close to what I believe. I believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three seperate personages and that when it is said in the scriptures that they are "one", what is really meant is they are one in purpose.

[kopernikuz]

Christian here. I am a video and drama producer for a non-denominational church plant here in Cleveland Ohio: The Rock (http://www.therockcleveland.org). My wife and I also homeschool our kids, but not just for religious reasons.

Nice to see y'all.

[Luvinna.]

The Rock? Are they a national thing? I think there's one here in Fort Collins... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif Never been to it, though.

[kopernikuz]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Mar 17 2003, 03:02 PM
The Rock? Are they a national thing? I think there's one here in Fort Collins... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif Never been to it, though.
Nah, it's a common name around the country. But they're not all affiliated with each other.

This "The Rock Community Church" that I go to is part of Great Commission Ministries (http://www.gcmweb.org) and Great Commission Association of Churches (http://www.gcachurches.org). They do have churches everywhere even worldwide, and particularly college campuses around the U.S. If there's one near you, it's a great group. Every Great Commission church I've been to has been awesome. And the college ones are really really good if you happen to be a student. Really upbeat and positive.

[Siri Ruane]

I have been Roman Catholic all my life, but my family is wanting to become Byzantine Catholic lately.
I really don't mind what they do. I'm still Roman.

[JediKeri.]

Mennonite here, but lately I've been going to a non denomoninaional church.

[Darth Fabulous]

I'm a Southern Baptist, but, like pretty much everyone else here who has said they go to a Baptist Church, it is pretty much non-denominational.

[Rojo]

There sure are a lot of Christians.

Personally I believe in reincarnation, but I don't belong to any particular religion. Eastern spirituality has the best message, for me.

[Darth Fabulous]

I find Eastern religions fascinating, especially Buddhism. I read something that suggested that Jesus was Buddha a while ago, it was interesting and not as far-fetched as it may sound on the surface.

[Siri Ruane]

My doctor's something like that. He said he worships Ali

[bodhisattva yoda]

i don't really consider myself a buddhist, but there are times i'd like to become one.

sometimes i think that christianity is just another form of buddhism, and that people mistake a lot of the biblical mythology as being fact and the religion becomes..well.. perverted. the same thing happens with many schools of buddhism as well, but never to the extent of justifying wars and things like that. but i think that the fundimental similarities between buddhism and christianity are like the similarities between obi-wan and gandalf. pacifism and mental/spiritual disicipline and compassion and like, non materialism and such and so forth.

[Lord Rocha]

I am part of the abussive and tyranical Catholic church but i am very indiferent to it. I never attend religuious mass ( the las time i went church was for a wedding ), i havent done my first communion and i am always critizing the church and the pope due to their discriminative and conservative ideals.

[Darth Fabulous]

Maybe you should consider a different denomination if you are so unhappy with your current church.

[Darth Fabulous]

Was anyone here a part of their high school's FCA?

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Mar 17 2003, 09:36 PM
Maybe you should consider a different denomination if you are so unhappy with your current church.
I cant, not yet...until 18.

I will follow my own religious impulse, believing in something above us but also creating in Neo-Darwinsm and how this theory aplies in the modern society.

[Darth Fabulous]

Why not until you are 18? Parents won't allow it?

[Lord Rocha]

My Dad would faint if i change religion- he cames from a fervent conservative and Catholic family- but my mom wouldnt care much.

The Mexican Laws can be a problem.

[JediKeri.]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Mar 17 2003, 11:38 PM
Was anyone here a part of their high school's FCA?
Ohhh, I did! It was Awsome!

Remind me to tell you about the time our bus was used as a catipult, and no I'm not kidding. I had the bruises to prove it.

[Darth Fabulous]

I really miss FCA a lot. My class brought about a lot of change in that organization. We helped it grow from a group of 15-20 devoted members to 90-100 attendees every Wednesday. It was always a blast watching 100 people cram into our guidance counselor's house. I went back and went to a meeting only once since I graduated, but it wasn't the same. The student leaders I graduated with are what made the group so great.

[Darth Coil]

I'm taking a "course" to become a Roman Catholic. I haven't even been baptised. I do go to church regularly already. By the end of May I'll be baptised. Havn't chosen a name though.

[flagcupomeatball]

I am a christian and i go to the same church as miramax terrik horn and xagete...My brother is the second pastor there...I Love God more than anything else in the world.

[Darth Coil]

That's a good thing f. I'm not going to the same church as anyone on this board. Probably because nobody else is from the country I'm from.

[Luvinna.]

Umm... for those of us who don't know, what's FCA? My room mate thinks it's some kind of Christian athlete organization. ???

[Darth Fabulous]

FCA stands for Fellowship of Christian Athletes, but non-athletes are always welcome at every meeting I have ever been to.

[xagete]

Sounds cool. Just out of curiosity, what do they teach?

[flagcupomeatball]

Hey i am asking the same question as Xagete is it does sound kool

[JediKeri.]

That Jesus Christ is Son of the Living God, and that they only way to salvation is through Him.

I was taught more through FCA than through my own chruch though.

[flagcupomeatball]

That is really kool I think that it is all very true

[Darth Fabulous]

It's student led, so there is little "teaching" going on, it's more of a Bible study. We do fun activities, we had guest speakers and musicians, and we organized charities and community events. Mostly, we just came together every Wednesday to share our love for God and help students who have just decided to accept Jesus Christ into their lives feel closer to him. It's very non-denominational and questions about Christianity are always welcome. Usually we had a new topic every week that we would discuss such as love, forgiveness, salvation, etc. And of course there was always plenty of food and drinks. Hope that helps you guys, let me know if you want more information.

[Darth Fabulous]

Me too JediKeri.

[flagcupomeatball]

Thanx a bunch that really helps me understand it i dont know about Xagete she had to go do school and go to drivers ed but i am sure she will appricaite.....I do have one more question hoe do get more info on it and can just anybody go.....Thanx again

[JediKeri.]

The best was the Elepahant Gift Exchange we had every christmas. Some people brought some outrageously funny stuff.

[flagcupomeatball]

Sounds like fun

[JediKeri.]

Flag. Go Here for FCA information. (http://www.fca.org/) It's the national web site. If your looking to start one up, your school counselor may be able to help.

[flagcupomeatball]

Hey thanx i will check it out

[Darth Fabulous]

Everyone, Christian or not, was always welcome at my school's chapter. To find out more, I would ask your school principal if your school has an FCA and if so who the faculty sponsor is. If your school doesn't have one you could start one. I think all you need is a faculty sponsor to start a club in most schools. You may find some more info at www.fca.org (http://www.fca.org) but I didn't find the website very useful except for ordering t-shirts.

[flagcupomeatball]

The thing is i dont go to school i teach myself at home but i will see what happens

[Darth Fabulous]

Geez Keri, you beat me to it.

My favorite part of FCA was our Valentine's Day meeting where we send Warm Fuzzies to each other. For Christmas we always helped a teenage mother by donating money and buying presents for her and her baby.

[flagcupomeatball]

Kool i like that it is really sweet

[mirax terrik horn]

yeah it really does sound sweet and i probably helped her alot. man this is so cool ppl are talking about religion. and they aren't debating. that is so awesome.

[Darth Fabulous]

It is nice, I hope it lasts.

[Kit]

My beliefs, I guess fall under Christianity mostly, but they are kind of twisted. You see, I'm facinated by things like politics, religion, and language--you know things that vary from culture to culture. So I've done some reading on all sorts of religions and such and found my own little understanding of how the universe may work. It answers most of the questions I've heard Atheists use to disprove in God. A basic outline would be:

-There is one God. He started life on Earth and guided evolution of His life.
-He has sent profits to help guide His most gifted creation, the humans (like Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddah, etc...); The different religions of the world focuss mostly on one of these profit's teachings.
-There is an Afterlife for the good; reincarnation for the unworthy of afterlife; for the wicked there is Hell.
-God, appreciates worshope from us, His creations, in any way (this is a step up toward Heaven).
-While His profits are important, God is the MOST important.

Those are my believes in a nut shell. I'm curious if anybody else has thought of the same thing.

[Whisper]

Nope.

[Kit]

Originally posted by Whisper@Mar 18 2003, 11:30 PM
Nope.
Then you're WRONG! j/k style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

To each his own, you know

[Whisper]

Well, the nope wasn't to you specifically.

[Darth Vegas]

Well, lets try to explain my point of view.

I believe in God, I believe that he created the world and everything in it to a lesser degree, and I believe the bible is a really good source of knowledge and a good blueprint on how to live a good healthy life.

I was once what you would call a Christian (Agent Bond was seduced, to uh, well, leave the Church), hell I was on my way to becoming a full time minister, almost got my degree in theology, but I was burned by the Churches around here and afar, too much pride, too much judgment, too much gossip, and too many things going on right within the services that they claimed to be the work of the Holy Spirit but just weren't backed by scripture at all (people yappin like small dogs and moaning, shaking on the floor eyes rolling in the back of the head, that sorta stuff).

And now the contemporary Christians of today really try hard to get in touch with America's youth, and I must say, they fall really short.
Because IMO, they try to mix too much of the world with good Christian teaching, kids go to youth group to meet with their friends not to meet with God, and I will not be a part of that. So the kids aren't sincere, and the sermons are really watered down (because people didn't get the message the first time so they're still on the basics). And that just sucks. Just to give you an example, alot of churches in this area, believe it or not I know this first-handed, show kids Star Wars in Sunday School and in Youth Groups to try to explain important biblical teachings to them. If they have to do something like that to get the kids involved, than something's not right.

So the bottom line is this, I'm not turned off to God, I'm turned off to alot of the Christian people and Churches in this area.

[xagete]

I actually really agree with that. Most churches you go to today are very watered down and like to mix the world in with everyone so that more people will want it. They are trying to sell God and church. That totally turns me off, I hate going to churches like that. My dad is the pastor at the church I go to (duh) and I am really happy that he teaches what the Bible says and doesn't try to water it down or try and make it so it is not offensive to people.
btw, when you said that you were "seduced to leave the Church"which church were you talking about? I'm just wondering. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Darth Vegas]

It used to be called Harvest Rock Church, they were an affiliate of the larger church in Pasedena, you may have heard about an event they held in Washington D.C. two years back called "The Call", it was a pretty big event, a couple 100,000 people, a few U.S. senators showed up. I was there, and their church in Las Vegas here is the one I left.

I don't attend a church at the moment, and I really don't plan to.

[Luvinna.]

The church I go to has a lay ministry. No one gets paid for the work done in the church (except maybe in blessings style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif ). I really like it cuz in church on Sundays, we don't listen to the same person give a sermon week after week. The bishop usually asks members of the congregation ahead of time to prepare a talk on a particular gospel topic (faith, repentance, tithing, etc) and then we have two or three people talk each meeting. The bishop does talk sometimes; maybe once every few months. But most of the time, we teach eachother and build off of eachother's knowledge and I really like that. Of course, it's the Spirit that's the real teacher.

[Siri Ruane]

That's intersting, Luvinna. Sounds cool.

[JediKeri.]

Bond that's why I also left the church I grew up in. Everything was watered down, and just boring. The church I'm now going to is 40 min away, but I think it's doing a better job than my old church. But no church, I think is perfect.

[flagcupomeatball]

You are right no church is perfect they are all different too.....But to make it perfect everyone in it would have to be perfect and no one but God is perfect....So that is a very good point....

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@Mar 20 2003, 04:05 PM
strange how many star wars fans are christians. considering christ and god and all that don't really exist in the star wars universe.
I also have noticed that ....this is America, imagine if the board were from a Latin country or Poland !

[Padme]

I am a Christian.

[Kit]

Originally posted by Senator Pter Thanas+Mar 19 2003, 08:49 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Senator Pter Thanas @ Mar 19 2003, 08:49 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-bodhisattva yoda@Mar 20 2003, 04:05 PM
strange how many star wars fans are christians. considering christ and god and all that don't really exist in the star wars universe.
I also have noticed that ....this is America, imagine if the board were from a Latin country or Poland ! [/b][/quote]
I don't get your meaning. Aren't those countries for the most part Christians?

[Darth Fabulous]

More specifically they are Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, I think that is what he was getting at.

[Kit]

Most of the Western world is Catholic, but I don't get it because those are still Christian groups.

[Das_Funked]

These are what I believe.


I'm an athiest.


I don't believe in a 'god'.


Like Agent Bond, I think that the bible is a terrific source on how someone should live their life.


I don't take the bible literally.


I sort of believe in the theory of evolution.


I don't pretend to have all the answers.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Das_Funked@Mar 20 2003, 03:32 AM

I don't take the bible literally.


I sort of believe in the theory of evolution.


I don't pretend to have all the answers.
You know what, I may not agree with you about Iraq and Osama Bin Laden, but I totally agree with those things.

Though much of the bible is actually history, most of the bible isn't meant to be taken at face value, especially the prophetic books.

[JediKeri.]

I think they are Bond. (I'm not gonna turn this into a debate, and that's all I'm gonna say.)

[mirax terrik horn]

good jedi keri but i agree with you on this one. i believe the bible is the only instruction for our lives, and i also belive it when in 2timothy 3:16 it says that the bible is God breathed. so that means that it is with out error.

[Darth Coil]

I agree.

Some parts of the bible may be difficult to understand but they are to be taken literally.

[JediBendu]

mmm to Bond you should listen, a theologist he was to be style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/y.gif

[bodhisattva yoda]

strange how many star wars fans are christians. considering christ and god and all that don't really exist in the star wars universe.

[Justin]

Originally posted by bodhisattva yoda@Mar 21 2003, 12:05 AM
strange how many star wars fans are christians. considering christ and god and all that don't really exist in the star wars universe.
That's a really weird comment. We only like forms of entertainment that pertain to our religion? I didn't know that.

Also, some of the Bible is meant to be taken literally, but most of it is intentionally set up to be open to interpretation.

Look at Jesus' parables...if you believe the Bible is only to be taken literally, those don't have the meaning to you that they should.

[Darth Fabulous]

I think the Bible is meant to be interpreted much like Justin said. I think it is the absolute word of God, but is vague by His design.

[Kit]

True. The Bible is actually a very remarkable book. And I believe that all the answers are in it. The Bible does prove evolution, and that God controls it.

It took 6 days to create the earth, as it says in the Bible. But that's not important. The important thing is, the Bible states that it all happened in stages. First, universe's stars (light). Second the planets (stated is the earth). Third the earth's landforms. Fourth the flora. Fifth aquatic animals. Sixth animals on the land.

This is almost exactly how evolution is supposed to have happened: Universe-stars/planets- earth formed- (bacteria)- plants- aquatic life- life on land- then millions of years humans inherited the earth.

[xagete]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Mar 20 2003, 09:38 PM
I think the Bible is meant to be interpreted much like Justin said. I think it is the absolute word of God, but is vague by His design.
However, I believe that we can know exactly what God was saying by studying and researching the Bible. Is that what you ment?

[Darth Fabulous]

Yeah, through prayer and study we are led to the correct interpretations. That's what I was going for.

[xagete]

Thanks.

[Das_Funked]

Without trying to offend anyone, I think the bible was written by someone to answer all the questions. That's it. It wasn't written by 'god' or any other 'godly' person. It's made up, and people who believe in it do so because they need to believe in something. That's my two cents.

[Saeth]

I'm Wiccan. I belive in the Old Religon, the one that was around before Christians came along. I am of the goddess-focused beliefs. My religon is very similar to that of Star Wars. We do belive in an aura that surrounds all things and that it can be tapped by anyone as long as they try. Kinda like the Force.

Either way, I believe everyone is entitled to believe what they will. Das_Funked, I don't believe in the Bible either, but there may be a large amount of truth in it. We don't know, and maybe we never will. People's faith holds them to believe.

[Das_Funked]

Is Wiccan like Druidism?

[Saeth]

Kinda. Basically, I'm a witch.

[Das_Funked]

Cool. Personally I hold more belief to that than I do to Christianity, because, like you said, it was around first.

[JediKeri.]

Originally posted by Das_Funked@Mar 20 2003, 11:01 PM
Without trying to offend anyone, I think the bible was written by someone to answer all the questions. That's it. It wasn't written by 'god' or any other 'godly' person. It's made up, and people who believe in it do so because they need to believe in something. That's my two cents.
Das: The Bible was written by many many people over several centuries. It's a miracle by God that's it's even proven history.

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by Saeth@Mar 21 2003, 03:52 AM
My religon is very similar to that of Star Wars. We do belive in an aura that surrounds all things and that it can be tapped by anyone as long as they try. Kinda like the Force.
Hmm. Sounds kind of like what I call the Light of Christ.

As for taking the Bible literally or figuratively, I agree with Justin in that parts of it are literal accounts of things that happened and other stories, like the parables that Jesus taught by, are to be taken as symbolic. The literal stories are there so that people now could have a record of the events of the time and learn from the mistakes and triumphs of others. Principles of the Gospel were taught symbolically so that people who are at different levels of spiritual maturity will understand them at their own level and still get something good out of it. Even if it's only the basic agricultural knowledge that you should wait until the wheat is grown before getting rid of the tares or you may end up taking some of the wheat out with the tares. Our Heavenly Father doesn't want us to have to be held accountable for knowing and understanding things that we maybe weren't ready for.

[mirax terrik horn]

Originally posted by Das_Funked@Mar 21 2003, 12:01 AM
It wasn't written by 'god' or any other 'godly' person. It's made up, and people who believe in it do so because they need to believe in something.
so what do you say to the many bible scriptures that say that the bible is God breathed and his holy word? just so you know i am not starting a debate i am just trully curious.

[Lord Rocha]

The Bible wasnt writed by God , was writed by many people "who suposly" knew what happened and all that stuff. So its credibilty isnt as high as many think.

[Das_Funked]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>so what do you say to the many bible scriptures that say that the bible is God breathed and his holy word?[/b][/quote]

I don't believe it. I look at the bible and see a good read, with some good stories, with some good rules to live by. That's it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Das: The Bible was written by many many people over several centuries. It's a miracle by God that's it's even proven history.[/b][/quote]

I agree with your first statement, but I don't understand your second one.

[Kit]

Does anybody aggree with me that parts of the Bible are simply simbolism? Specifically the Book of Genisus?

[Rojo]

IMO it's all symbolism, given it was written in the first and second centuries.

[Abi-Wan]

I'm Roman Catholic, but I don't really consider myself a religious person. I guess I mostly believe in being a good person. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Kit]

Well, it's not all symbolism. A lot of it is truth. Moses did lead a group of people (the Hebrews) out of Egypt. There was a man named Jesus who was a religous leader. And so on... The questions only come with the religous aspect of it. Was Moses lead by God, was Jesus lead by God?

[Rojo]

Myself, I don't believe Jesus existed at all. The bible is the only "history" of that time that he is mentioned in. Moses, I don't think he was lead by God. But then I don't believe in one all powerful God anyway.

[Kit]

Yes, you're Buddist, right? I remember you mentioning Eastern Asian...

Buddism, to me, is a very interesting religion. From what I've read and studied on it, doesn't teach too much of an afterlife when it is acheived, but more of what one should do to lead a good life--which is one reason why I kind of see Buddah as a profet lead by some mystical force (that we know and call: God).

As for Jesus, I do believe that he was a profet of God, lead to teach people that there is something out there.

[Rojo]

I'm not a Buddhist, but I try to follow Buddhist and Eastern ethics. I believe in reincarnation, if you can call that an afterlife and that Guatama (Buddha), was a person who really saw the light through meditation.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Das_Funked@Mar 22 2003, 09:49 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Das: The Bible was written by many many people over several centuries. It's a miracle by God that's it's even proven history.

I agree with your first statement, but I don't understand your second one. [/b][/quote]
Men have attempted to deystroy the bible completely off the afce of the Earth several times, most notibly the Nazis and Rome.

I wouldn't call it a miracle, more like there were just too many people with too many copies of the book to completely obliterate it, todays bible were interpreted mostly from scrolls found in modern times.

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by Rojo@Mar 23 2003, 12:15 AM
Myself, I don't believe Jesus existed at all. The bible is the only "history" of that time that he is mentioned in.
I believe there are other records of Jesus Christ that testify of his mission and who he was. The Bible even mentions other scriptures and books that would come forth in the Latter Days to support the Bible and it's teachings. (See Isaiah 29:9-14 (http://scriptures.lds.org/isa/29) and Ezekiel 37:15-19 (http://scriptures.lds.org/ezek/37))

[JediBendu]

Why is this called "This is not a debate thread"?

don't worry - I have not intention of posting here after with the last one, just curious 's all

I mean, Luvinna - you've just mentioned Ezekiel - his own writings seem to indicate the presence of alien technology on earth around the same time - 'rose to the heaven's on a pilar of fire'

personally, I'd like to discuss Leviticus and his relationship and influence on Paul

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Mar 23 2003, 03:42 PM
I mean, Luvinna - you've just mentioned Ezekiel - his own writings seem to indicate the presence of alien technology on earth around the same time - 'rose to the heaven's on a pilar of fire'
How does "rose to the heaven's on a pillar of fire" suggest alien technology? (And, uh, where'd you find that?) Christ is supposed to return to the earth decending from heaven as if in a chariot of fire. Why can't people be taken up to heaven the same way?

[Rojo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>todays bible were interpreted mostly from scrolls found in modern times. [/b][/quote]

The King James bible was written in the 16th century. I believe all bibles have been mostly the same since then.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Mar 23 2003, 07:00 PM
How does "rose to the heaven's on a pillar of fire" suggest alien technology? (And, uh, where'd you find that?)
Well for one thing, in Genesis, when it refers to the sons of God coming down from heaven and mating with the daughters of women during Noah's time, and the product of their inter-species breeding being giants, the direct translation from the Hebrew to the English for "Sons of God" is extra-terrestrial or less specfically alien. I heard about that on TLC.

And Ezekiel certainly does seem to have seen UFO's, they should write a hymn about that..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The King James bible was written in the 16th century. I believe all bibles have been mostly the same since then.[/b][/quote]

Rojo, the latest translations of the bible are derived from more recently found scrolls, specifically the NIV and NKJV versions and several others.

[JediBendu]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And Ezekiel certainly does seem to have seen UFO's, they should write a hymn about that..[/b][/quote]

they probably did - Von Daniken's work (although debunked nowadays) mentions Ezekiel quite a bit

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>How does "rose to the heaven's on a pillar of fire" suggest alien technology?[/b][/quote]

a rocket's flame looks like a pilar of fire

[JediKeri.]

Well, there is a debate that the KJV was King James thing, and the veiws in that bible are slightly skewed. That's the debate, but I love reading it for it's poetic flow.

Not that I'm a poet mind you, but the feel is more like one loooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnng song. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Mar 24 2003, 02:24 AM
Well for one thing, in Genesis, when it refers to the sons of God coming down from heaven and mating with the daughters of women during Noah's time, and the product of their inter-species breeding being giants, the direct translation from the Hebrew to the English for "Sons of God" is extra-terrestrial or less specfically alien. I heard about that on TLC.
I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'd like to know where it says that the "sons of God came down from heaven" to mate with the daughters of men, because I just went over Genesis 6 (http://scriptures.lds.org/gen/6) and it doesn't say that. At least, not in the KJV. ??? It also doesn't exactly say that the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men were giants. It just says they "became mighty men which were of old, men of renown" after mentioning that there were giants in the land at the time.

[xagete]

Originally posted by JediBendu@Mar 23 2003, 05:42 PM
Why is this called "This is not a debate thread"?

don't worry - I have not intention of posting here after with the last one, just curious 's all
Its called that because Blizzard told Mirax that if it turned into a debate thread she would close it. And Mirax really didn't want it closed.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Mar 24 2003, 07:57 AM
I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'd like to know where it says that the "sons of God came down from heaven" to mate with the daughters of men, because I just went over Genesis 6 (http://scriptures.lds.org/gen/6) and it doesn't say that. At least, not in the KJV. ??? It also doesn't exactly say that the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men were giants. It just says they "became mighty men which were of old, men of renown" after mentioning that there were giants in the land at the time.
Genesis 6:4 says in the living bible:

"In those days, and even afterward giants lived on the Earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with human women they gave birth to children who became the heroes mentioned in the legends of old."

here is another translation:

"And it came to pass,
when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God (bene elohim) saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose;
There were giants (nephilim or fallen ones) in the earth in those days;
and also after that,
when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

The Hebrew word translated here as "sons of God" is bene elohim, and it means "from the heavens", basically it means something not from this Earth, extraterestrial.

Undoubtably the men and women of the day thought they were angels, as many theologists today believe, but the New Testament states then we when go to Heaven we will be as the angels neither being given in marriage nor multiplying, basically Angels cannot reproduce so that say right there that these "bene elohim" who came down from the sky and the heavens were something from another world something technologically and physicaly advanced far superior to humans, enought that they perceived these men to be "the sons of God".

[Das_Funked]

Ok, let me see if I've got this.

'God's' sons came down to Earth and had intercourse with the women, thus populating the Earth.

Were these 'sons' a bunch of Jesus' or what? Did god just squirt 'em out? The more I hear about it, the more it sounds like the composer/s of the Bible had a bit too much wine when he was writing it.

[Darth Vegas]

Das Funked, I was still working on explaining that, read the edited post.

[Das_Funked]

Oops.

Your post reminds me of a religous group called the Raeleans (sp?). Have you ever heard of them and if yes, do you follow them?

[Darth Vegas]

Nope never heard of them.

I'm just telling you the facts of what the originally Hebrew actually means.

[Das_Funked]

Also, where did the other translation come from?

[Das_Funked]

Ok.

They actually use the same words that you just used. They say that the Alien race called the Elohim came to Earth and populated it. That's all I can remember off the top of my head, but I'll try and get more information.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Das_Funked@Mar 25 2003, 05:13 AM
Also, where did the other translation come from?


A Hebrew to English dictionary, and there was a series on TLC with some Hebrew Scholars on the subject. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

The word Elohim means God, and the word bene means son, when spoken together it means "from the Heavens, or from God who dwells in teh Heavens".


This link may shed some more insight on the topic. >>>click here<<< (http://www.rockinauburn.com/columns/nephilim.html)

[Das_Funked]

This is what the leader of the religous sect says happened to him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>On the 13th of December 1973, French journalist Rael was contacted by a visitor from an other planet, and asked to establish an Embassy to welcome these people back to Earth.

The extra-terrestrial was about four feet in height, had long dark hair, almond shaped eyes, olive skin and exuded harmony and humour. He told Rael that:

"we were the ones who made all life on earth"
"you mistook us for gods"
"we were at the origin of your main religions"
"Now that you are mature enough to understand this, we would like to enter official contact through an embassy".[/b][/quote]

The Aliens name that he met was Yahweh. Does that ring a bell?

Some more info.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The messages dictated to Rael explain how life on Earth is not the result of random evolution, nor the work of a supernatural 'God'. It is a deliberate creation, using DNA, by a scientifically advanced people who made human beings "literally in their image" what one can call "scientific creationism". References to these scientists and their work, as well as to their symbol of infinity can be found in the ancient texts of many cultures. For example, in Genesis, the biblical account of creation, the word "Elohim" has been mistranslated as "God" in the singular, but it is a plural, which means "those who came from the sky[/b][/quote]

I got this information from Rael.Org (http://www.rael.org/int/english/index.html)

[Darth Vegas]

Whatever, I don't believe in that sh!t really, I do believe in life on other planets, I'm simply telling you what the two words actually mean.

[Das_Funked]

Ok. It just sounds pretty much the same, that's all.

[Darth Vegas]

Well they're mostly using the direct translations of the Hebrew words, but I'm not aware of their beliefs really, nor have I ever heard of them, I don't think they ever contacted aliens or there's some stupid ship traveling behind a comet.

[Darth Vegas]

But their tranlsation of Elohim is wrong, it's not plural.

[Das_Funked]

Uh huh.

It's all same $H!T, different smell to me anyway.

[kopernikuz]

Doubtful that they were aliens...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Some have claimed that the nephilim, or the "sons of God," both mentioned in Genesis 6:2-4, were aliens. This is a wild extension of a common view that the "sons of God" who married the "daughters of men" were fallen angels, and that the nephilim were products of those "marriages."

"Sons of God" is clearly used of angels in Job 38:7. The Septuagint (LXX) here translates "sons of God" as "angels of God." This need not mean that evil angels, or demons, actually cohabited with women -- Jesus made it clear that angels do not engage in sexual activities, at least not angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30). Nevertheless, evil angels on earth could have used the bodies of ungodly men, by demonic possession, to achieve their evil purpose of producing an evil generation of people (Genesis 6:12).[2]

There are other reasonable suggestions as to the identity of the "sons of God" and the Nephilim. Interestingly, the word nephilim is only used here and in Numbers 13:33, where it clearly refers to the descendants of Anak, who were big people, but still people. Furthermore, "sons of God" is not used exclusively of angels -- the children of Israel are called "the sons of the living God" in Hosea 1:10 (see also Psalm 73:15; 80:17).

Bible scholars such as H.C. Leupold believe that the "sons of God" were descendants of Seth, the godly line who are detailed in the preceding chapter (Genesis 4:25-5:32). Leupold wrote, "But who were these 'sons of God'? Without a shadow of a doubt, the Sethites."[3] In this view, the descendants of Seth became wayward and married the "daughters of men" indiscriminately, basing their choice only on appearance, without concern for godliness, and the nephilim were their offspring.


Rulers in ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia often proclaimed themselves as "sons of God" to enhance their power and prestige. So, another view with much support is that the "sons of God" were power-hungry rulers and despots, who, in their hunger for power and influence, took many wives in polygamy. They, and their offspring, through tyranny, became "mighty men." (Nimrod was described as a "mighty one" in Genesis 10:8.)[/b][/quote]

[Darth Vegas]

Looking at the context of the scripture in the Hebrew, it was clear that the numerous times the words bell elohim and nephilim were used, they were not talking about God's people mating with the desendents of Cain, that is not accurate with what the scripture reads, and it still leaves much to be answered, like the king mentioned in the old testament, I don't remeber where, that I believe it said, six fingers on each hand and siz toes on each foot, and of course Numbers 13:32-33, where it says that Iraeli spies reported that there were giants in the and and to them they were grasshoppers, again the same word nephilim meaning "fallen", bell elohim is the Hebrew word used for son of God there, not Nelphilim, that is the Hebrew word used for Giants, bell elohim means "from the heavens".

[Darth Fabulous]

Guys don't make this into a debate, no one wants it closed.

[Darth Vegas]

Well we're not debating whether or not God exsists or who's belief is right, that what Blizz was talking about.

We're debating the meaning of a word, and my Hebrew to English dictionary says I'm right.

[Darth Fabulous]

That is still not the intent of this thread.

If you want to debate words, you butchered your quotation of Genesis earlier. For one thing you started at 6:1 not 6:4. My study Bible left "son's of God" untranslated as Nephilim. There are a lot of different Bibles and different interpretations.

We know what you believe now and sharing your beliefs is the point of this thread, no debate necessary.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Mar 25 2003, 07:37 AM
For one thing you started at 6:1 not 6:4.
Uh no I didn't, I copied and pasted that directly from my PC study bible. Read it for youself, that's what it says.

[Blizzard]

Hey! Stop debating me! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Uh yeah Darth Fab. You heard her!!! :look:

BTW, Darth Fab, why don't you read the last page before commenting further.

[Darth Fabulous]

I consulted my Bible before posting. The first line of your quote was Genesis 6:1, then it skipped to 6:4, I'm not arguing, just saying that it was different from my version, the NIV. The wording was quite different too, again not arguing, just pointing out that there are many possible interpretations that do not involve aliens and that those interpretations may be more plausable depending on your version of the Bible.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>BTW, Darth Fab, why don't you read the last page before commenting further. [/b][/quote]

I did read the last page before my initial post, thanks for your concern.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Mar 25 2003, 11:07 AM
I consulted my Bible before posting. The first line of your quote was Genesis 6:1, then it skipped to 6:4, I'm not arguing, just saying that it was different from my version, the NIV.
I already said that it was from the Living Bible, the other version I think was NAS I cut and pasted that from a web site though it was Genesis 6:1 and 6:4, but the first I took from my PC study bible, there was no jumping ahead there.

Here's the NKJ translation:

"There were giants in the earth in those days and also afterward when the Sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bore children to them, Those were the mighty men of old men of renown."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I did read the last page before my initial post, thanks for your concern. [/b][/quote]

Certainly didn't seem that way, I wasn't debating with anyone really, Das Funked thought I sounded like one of the wierd alien cult guys, I was simply answering Luvinna's question regarding a previous statement of mine, the answer of course is Genesis 6:4.

[Luvinna.]

Oh boy. And this is why we're not expected to rely solely on the Bible for doctrines of the Gospel.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know exactly how many translations, or versions of the Bible there are? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Mar 25 2003, 12:47 PM
Oh boy. And this is why we're not expected to rely solely on the Bible for doctrines of the Gospel.
Uh I was specifically the ORIGINAL Hebrew text. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[mirax terrik horn]

well luvinna it depends on what you mean language translation or other translation so what do you mean???

[Darth Fabulous]

If it is translated directly from Hebrew you have a very rare version of the Bible Bond. Nearly every modern English translation is translated from Greek which was translated from a variety of sources including Hebrew texts.

[mirax terrik horn]

oh just so everyone knows i am once again going to say it THIS IS NOT A DEBATE THREAD so please dont debate i am really enjoying this thread and i wouldnt want it closed due to some ppl who have different views on some things.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007+Mar 25 2003, 04:52 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007 @ Mar 25 2003, 04:52 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Luvinna@Mar 24 2003, 07:57 AM
I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'd like to know where it says that the "sons of God came down from heaven" to mate with the daughters of men, because I just went over Genesis 6 (http://scriptures.lds.org/gen/6) and it doesn't say that. At least, not in the KJV. ??? It also doesn't exactly say that the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men were giants. It just says they "became mighty men which were of old, men of renown" after mentioning that there were giants in the land at the time.
Genesis 6:4 says in the living bible:

"In those days, and even afterward giants lived on the Earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with human women they gave birth to children who became the heroes mentioned in the legends of old."

here is another translation:

"And it came to pass,
when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God (bene elohim) saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose;
There were giants (nephilim or fallen ones) in the earth in those days;
and also after that,
when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

The Hebrew word translated here as "sons of God" is bene elohim, and it means "from the heavens", basically it means something not from this Earth, extraterestrial.

Undoubtably the men and women of the day thought they were angels, as many theologists today believe, but the New Testament states then we when go to Heaven we will be as the angels neither being given in marriage nor multiplying, basically Angels cannot reproduce so that say right there that these "bene elohim" who came down from the sky and the heavens were something from another world something technologically and physicaly advanced far superior to humans, enought that they perceived these men to be "the sons of God". [/b][/quote]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If it is translated directly from Hebrew you have a very rare version of the Bible Bond. Nearly every modern English translation is translated from Greek which was translated from a variety of sources including Hebrew texts.[/b][/quote]

Now read closely Fab, don't hurt yourself.

I'm not talking about my bible, I'm talking about what the original Hebrew text reads and how it can and can't be interpreted, specfically those two words. I'm not saying it absolutely means that these sons of God were alien, I'm just saying that the general theory that these sons of God were angels is false because it states in Matthew that Angels do not amrry or engage in Sexual activities. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[kopernikuz]

Drop it!

[mirax terrik horn]

yeah do what the man says.

[Darth Fabulous]

I'm going to respect Mirax's wishes, how about you Bond?

[Darth Vegas]

Drop what?

I'm not arguing with anyone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If it is translated directly from Hebrew you have a very rare version of the Bible Bond. Nearly every modern English translation is translated from Greek which was translated from a variety of sources including Hebrew texts.[/b][/quote]

You misunderstood me, I explained it to you.

:whatsthat:

[mirax terrik horn]

bond just drop it you were arguing. just drop it pleaze.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by mirax terrik horn@Mar 25 2003, 01:29 PM
bond just drop it you were arguing. just drop it pleaze.
Ok, now I'm arguing because you started it, again I was not, read the posts for yourself until shut up yourself.

You clearly do not understand at all what I said.

And I don't really give a sh!t, we're not talking about right and wrong here, or debating who's beliefs are correct.

[kopernikuz]

Who cares??? Move on... my children let things go quicker...

[mirax terrik horn]

ummm ok i did read the post and you both were getting pretty heated. i will give you this if you really think that you werent arguing i will full and completely drop it right here and right now. so which was it?

and also this was not meant to be a debate thread or showing which belief is right. it was meant to see what different star wars fans believe so this is agian not the place for it.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by kopernikuz@Mar 25 2003, 01:31 PM
Who cares??? Move on... my children let things go quicker...
Who cares?

Well I care, and someone else cared enough to carry on the conversation.

This isn't titled the Christian only thread you know, we're talking about Religion here right? Well at least I was.

You didn't want to turn this into a debate and I didn't do that, it was Das Funked and Darth Fab that did that, clearly because they both misunderstood me, and/or didn't give a rats ass about what I had to say, not that I care, but you asked what we beleive in here, I said just that, and then someone didn't even read the the thread before telling me to stop debating, which I wasn't.

[Darth Fabulous]

Mirax, you might as well close this until Bond gets off, he can't let things go.

[kopernikuz]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007+Mar 25 2003, 04:33 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007 @ Mar 25 2003, 04:33 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-kopernikuz@Mar 25 2003, 01:31 PM
Who cares??? Move on... my children let things go quicker...
Who cares?

Well I care, and someone else cared enough to carry on the conversation.

This isn't titled the Christian only thread you know, we're talking about Religion here right? Well at least I was. [/b][/quote]
The point is... you both made your points... you both disagree... it's time to move on. Why can't you see that? I'm not knocking you... I'm not knocking him.... I'm knocking it off...

so should you. Just move on to a new subject.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by kopernikuz@Mar 25 2003, 01:36 PM
The point is... you both made your points... you both disagree... it's time to move on. Why can't you see that? I'm not knocking you... I'm not knocking him.... I'm knocking it off...

so should you. Just move on to a new subject.
I don't have a problem with that, I didn't carry on the conversation, Darth Fab did, do I really need to quote that post again?

[mirax terrik horn]

ok i am reopening the thread. i wish to tell everone that you guys need to not get into heated debates just because you dont agree. like i said before this is not a debate thread this is a thread to see what other SW fans believe not to show who is right or wrong.

[JediKeri.]

Bond listen to the girl.

I'm sorry I wasn't here earlier today. I was trying to rest up after working all night. Please no more debates in this thread. I enjoy it as much as I assume you all do, and I'd hate to close it myself. Just enjoy the discussions. No fighting. Got it? Thanks.

JK

[Darth Vegas]

Oh no problem. I was just answering people's questions and defending the validity of my statement and explaining why I said it to begin with.

What turned it into a debate was a certain person setting what I said aside with a simple I heard you and I don't care sorta statement, and not only that but basically saying my statement (a direct quote from the Bible and the Hebrew) was false. When the only reason I said anything to begin with is because someone asked.

[JediKeri.]

Thanks for listening Bond. I apreciate that.

[Darth Fabulous]

I never said I don't care. I was trying to point out how the view you were expressing did not represent mainstream Christian views and made use of a what is in my view a very unconventional interpretation of a rarely used translation. I didn't want passersby who are not Christian to think what you were saying was in anyway connected to mainstream Christianity.

By the way, thanks for once again showing us how childish you are by failing to let this go yet again.

[Darth Fabulous]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>and not only that but basically saying my statement (a direct quote from the Bible and the Hebrew) was false.[/b][/quote]

You horribly misread my post. I said that according to my Bible you were quoting the wrong passage, I never said it was false.

[JediKeri.]

Ahem...The subjed is dropped Fab. Let's move along....

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Mar 25 2003, 03:27 PM
By the way, thanks for once again showing us how childish you are by failing to let this go yet again.
If you feel the need to be right, than be right.

I'm sure most everbody would agree with you, not that I care. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

Let me reinterate once again this thread is not the Christian only party or an attempt to turn people toward your beliefs one way or another, we're simply displaying what we believe in here we aren't preaching to the crowd. And that was not my attempt, my attempt was simply to answer Luvinna's question about where in the scriptures it says that the sons of God mated with the daughters of men, and brought giants into the Earth as an affect, she wanted to know why I said that and where it was in the scriptures and I answered her.

When I get a reply back or a comment from somebody else referring to that post, it's common procedure to give a rebuttle. This is after all the Galactic Senate, right?

[Rojo]

Whoa! Things are getting a bit heated in here.

[xagete]

Lets talk about something else before Mirax gets on and starts yelling at people for debating. I really wish this was a debating thread, I love debating. I'm just really bad at it. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Rojo@Mar 25 2003, 03:53 PM
Whoa! Things are getting a bit heated in here.
I think not, there's no problem here.

I let the man be right, you're right Fab, the debate was really stupid and we should move on.

[Rojo]

Good. Anyone else here believe in reincarnation?

[Darth Vegas]

In the sense of someone's spirit coming back as another person, I think it might be possible, but I don't believe my grandmother is gonna come back as a cow or a cockroach, that's pretty far fetched if you ask me.

[Rojo]

Personally, I'd like to come back as an animal, it'd be cool. Being a male lion would be great, all you do is laze around, eat, mate and fight. You don't even have to hunt, the chicks do it for you! What a life.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Rojo@Mar 25 2003, 04:02 PM
Personally, I'd like to come back as an animal, it'd be cool. Being a male lion would be great, all you do is laze around, eat, mate and fight. You don't even have to hunt, the chicks do it for you! What a life.
You'd wanna come back as an animal visciously hunted by poachers and on the verge of extinction? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

Not to mention that aids is heavily spread among the worlds population of cats in the wild, scientists say that it's likely that every wild cat in Africa is affected even if they don't show any signs of it, some are immune, just as humans that have that special gene (ask Das Funked about it I forgot).

[Rojo]

Stop putting a halt to my well laid plans style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Seriously, I didn't know that thing about AIDS, wow.

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah it really sucks, it's especially heavy here in America, there are more wild house cats here then humans, about a 30 to 1 ratio.

And at least have of them have the feline equivalent of aids, I don't let my cats outside at all because of that.

I know I know, completely off topic...

But you know what, whales are virtually disease free. It'd be cool to be a whale. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Rojo]

Yeah, that'd be cool.

Back on topic, is anyone here actually a member of a religion that's not christianity? I believe in reincarnation, but I don't follow any particular religion.

[Kit]

I believe in reincarnation a tad. (see the outline of my beliefs on page 2)

Not intending to sway the conversation again, but just to clarify it: With cat's AIDS spreads much like a cold would with humans. That is why there is such a high percentage of it in felines.

[Darth Vegas]

If I remember correctly Jedi Bendu is a member of the Jedi religion, he can affirm that I believe.

[Rojo]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Mar 26 2003, 11:09 AM
If I remember correctly Jedi Bendu is a member of the Jedi religion, he can affirm that I believe.
Yeah, enough people said it was their religion in the UK and Oz census' to make it an "official" religion.

[Kit]

Really? Jedi Bendu is a Master Bendu?

Or is he just something similar to Jedi, like Wiccanism or something?

[Darth Vegas]

It had something to do with the Jedi Religion they were trying to make official in Australia, the thread is somewhere in the bowels of the General SW section.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Rojo+Mar 25 2003, 04:43 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rojo @ Mar 25 2003, 04:43 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Mar 26 2003, 11:09 AM
If I remember correctly Jedi Bendu is a member of the Jedi religion, he can affirm that I believe.
Yeah, enough people said it was their religion in the UK and Oz census' to make it an "official" religion. [/b][/quote]
I wouldn't mind joining, if the Force was real and I could have a lightsaber. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Kit]

I remember seeing that thread, what I got out of it though was that he just wanted to report it--that he found it funny.

But I could be wrong.

I always thought he was atheistic. Again, I could be wrong, but that's just what I gathered from some of his posts.

[Smeghead]

Originally posted by Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Mar 25 2003, 06:05 PM
Not to mention that aids is heavily spread among the worlds population of cats in the wild, scientists say that it's likely that every wild cat in Africa is affected even if they don't show any signs of it, some are immune, just as humans that have that special gene (ask Das Funked about it I forgot).
<span style="color:green">Really? I hadnt heard that. Got a source?
(curiosity, not sarcasm or dismissal)</span>

[kopernikuz]

Originally posted by Rojo+Mar 25 2003, 07:43 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rojo @ Mar 25 2003, 07:43 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Agent Bond A.K.A. TK-007@Mar 26 2003, 11:09 AM
If I remember correctly Jedi Bendu is a member of the Jedi religion, he can affirm that I believe.
Yeah, enough people said it was their religion in the UK and Oz census' to make it an "official" religion. [/b][/quote]
Well, the email chain trying to promote this is true... but the Census does not make it an "official" religion. You can claim anything you want on the Census... that does not change what is officially recognized as a religion. It was a hoax. But I don't doubt many people did it anyway... you could claim anything on there.

Jedi not an Official Religion (http://www.snopes.com/religion/jedi.htm)

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Smeghead@Mar 25 2003, 04:51 PM
<span style="color:green">Really? I hadnt heard that. Got a source?
(curiosity, not sarcasm or dismissal)</span>
Nope, but you can try a google search.

I heard that on 20/20.

[Rojo]

I heard enough people did it on the UK census to make it a religion. Could be wrong I suppose.

[Kit]

Originally posted by Smeghead@Mar 25 2003, 07:51 PM
<span style="color:green">Really? I hadnt heard that. Got a source?
(curiosity, not sarcasm or dismissal)</span>
I've heard it from the vet.

[Kit]

Originally posted by Rojo@Mar 25 2003, 07:54 PM
I heard enough people did it on the UK census to make it a religion. Could be wrong I suppose.
I thought that happened in Australia though.

[Darth Vegas]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Jedi not an Official Religion (http://www.snopes.com/religion/jedi.htm)[/b][/quote]

Of all the pics they could show in relation, it was this one:

Anyone ever see that pic of "The Count" in the last Insider?

"Always one, two there are, ahhh aahhh ahh!"

Sorry, I just thought that was kinda funny, you can go about your business, move along...

[kopernikuz]

Originally posted by Rojo@Mar 25 2003, 07:54 PM
I heard enough people did it on the UK census to make it a religion. Could be wrong I suppose.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Update: In October 2001, several news outlets erroneously reported that, based on the results of the 2001 census, "Jedi" has now been established as an official religion in the U.K., and "Jedi Knight" will henceforth appear as an option on future census forms. It hasn't, and it won't:


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The Force will not be with you despite many Star Wars fans registering their religion as Jedi Knight in this year's British census.
Officials said on Thursday there was "absolutely no possibility" of Jedi appearing as a choice of religion on future census forms after officials created a code for Jedi to help them analyze responses to the 2001 population survey.

"Because a certain number of people were likely to have put Jedi Knight as a response to that question, it has been included as a code simply to help speed the forms through the machine-readers," a spokesman for the Office of National Statistics told Reuters.

"All that will happen is that it will be recorded as 'Other'," he said. "It certainly does not mean it is recognized as a religion." [/b][/quote]

The Office of National Statistics simply assigned the response "Jedi Knight" a numeric code to simplify the process of tabulating census results, as is typically done when many people answer a question by writing in a response not offered as a choice on the census form. This no more means that Jedi is an "official" religion than the election bureau's assigning a numeric code to "Mickey Mouse" (who usually receives at least several hundred write-in votes in every major election) means that a cartoon rodent is a qualified candidate for political office.

[/b][/quote]

[Rojo]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Luvinna.]

Ahem. Well. Okay. All that came from my simple little desire to know which version of the Bible Bond was using? Yikes. And if you want my semi-professional opinion (which you probably don't, but I'm going to give it to you anyway), the only argument I saw was the one about whether or not there had been an argument. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif

Somewhere back there, someone asked me to clarify my question about versions of the Bible (yes, I'm purposely bringing that back up). I guess I'm talking about English versions, ie - the King James Version, the New International Version, the American Standard Version and the New American Standard Version, etc. How many versions are there?

As for reincarnation, I don't believe in it. (But I do believe cats have nine lives, or mine would be long dead. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif ) In my church we're taught that "all human beings - male and female - are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose." (From The Family: A Proclamation to the World) I believe that my spirit, is mine and no one else's and that it will always be mine. It was mine before I was born, it will be mine after I die, and I'll get it back when I am resurrected.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Mar 25 2003, 05:03 PM
Ahem. Well. Okay. All that came from my simple little desire to know which version of the Bible Bond was using?
Yup, it was the NKJ, the NAS, and the New Living Translations.

[Darth Fabulous]

Someone asked how many versions there are, to the best of my knowledge there are 17 English translations.

[Darth Vegas]

17 huh?

[Das_Funked]

Then which one is the 'correct' version? Who decides which one is the 'correct' version?

[Darth Fabulous]

That's what I came up with, keep in mind these are modern english translations only, there might be a few others, but these are the 17 most mainstream.

Here's the list I came up with:

Amplified Bible
Contemporary English Version
English Standard Version
God's Word Bible
King James Version
New American Bible
New American Standard Bible
New Century Version
New English Translation
New International Version
New Jerusalem Bible
New King James Version
New Living Translation
New Revised Standard Version
The Message
Today's English Version
Today's New International Version

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Das_Funked@Mar 25 2003, 05:32 PM
Then which one is the 'correct' version? Who decides which one is the 'correct' version?


It's just that American English isn't the same as "English English", it all a matter of personnel preference, you got your study bibles and you got your family bibles, they all say and mean the exact same thing, it's just a matter of the wording, some Bibles have more simpler to understand translations for the youth, while the KJV appeals more to your grandparents.

The KJV is probably the most inaccuarate translation of the Bible however, in the context of the New Testament, it was written by unedjucated men and the translation kinda sends a subliminal message otherwise. They also added a couple verses, like in Proverbs, "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is actually from an old English poem.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Mar 25 2003, 05:37 PM
The Message

This is bar none the greatest Modern Translation of the New Testament, very interesting, and very accurate to the actaul wording of the NT in the Greek.

[Darth Fabulous]

Well I believe many of the newer versions are an attempt to 1. make the Bible more readible 2. make the Bible more politically correct and 3. try to incorporate new sources that are older than the ones used in the KJV. The NIV is currently the most popular version, so if popular opinion counts, it is most right. These versions have different priorities. The New Living Translation attempts to paraphrase the oldest original texts to preserve the overall meaning of the text when a word for word translation loses that meaning. The KJV and it's derivatives attempts to make a word for word translation from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, whichever better preserves the original meaning. Both of these approaches seem pretty legitimate to me. Other versions are either based on older versions or are modern translations of the same old texts. Some are translated by a very narrow group of Biblical scholars from a single denomination. The last two on my list are basically the politically correct Bible, where men is replaced by people and sons by children, etc.

The right version is the one that you like best and that best represents your beliefs.

[Darth Fabulous]

If you are new to Christianity and looking to start reading the Bible, I recommend the NIV, I think it is very easy to read and is a responsible translation, and I recommend you start with the New Testament, mainly because this teaches you the most about Christianity and is easier to follow. It's easy to get really bogged down reading the OT, with all the geneologies and such.

[Darth Vegas]

*point out Matthew chapter 1* style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[xagete]

Originally posted by Das_Funked@Mar 25 2003, 08:32 PM
Then which one is the 'correct' version? Who decides which one is the 'correct' version?


I just wanted to point out that some words in the Greek and Hebrew have more meanings than just one. The translators look at the word, then at the context, and decide which one they think would fit the best. Sometimes they disagree, and then it is our job if we are to rightly study the Bible, to go back, find the Greek word, look up its English meanings, and decide for ourselves what is the best meaning. Two really good translations are the New American Standard Bible, and the English Standard Version. The New International Version is probably the easiest to read, though.

[Justin]

I have the Life Application Edition of the NIV, the difference is that it comes with a lot of in-depth footnotes and sidenotes.

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by Darth Fabulous@Mar 25 2003, 06:56 PM
It's easy to get really bogged down reading the OT, with all the geneologies and such.
I love the OT! It's not all geneologies. There's some really great stuff in there. I'm reading Isaiah right now. Okay, I know. Random comment.

I've only read the KJV because that's what my church uses.

[Darth Fabulous]

I know it's not all geneologies, but there are a lot of them, especially in the books of Moses. My point was it isn't the best place to start reading if you've never read the Bible before.

[Rojo]

Read revelations, whatever that guy was on I want some. It's ****ed up, all creatures made out of eyes and stuff, quality.

[JediKeri.]

Freaky isn't it? Revelation is one of the most debated books in the whole bible.

[Darth Fabulous]

The first time I read Revelations I said to myself, "What just happened here?" It's extremely disturbing.

[Marbleman]

i dont know anyone who took revelations to be literal. if it was it would be insanity, so i think its got to be some sort allegory. ???

[Darth Fabulous]

My study Bible helps make sense of it, but it's still so dark compared to the rest of the NT.

[Rojo]

I think it was originally meant to be taken as fact. Supposedly it's ome guy's vision (John?) of the end of the world and the judgement, what actually will happen.

[JediKeri.]

Yeah, It's John's vision.

[Rojo]

He must have been on acid to get a vision like that.

[Darth Fabulous]

It's John, but not necessarily the apostle. The language and style is very different from John's other writings and it has been suggested that John the Presbyter may have written the book.

[Rojo]

I always thought it was a differnet John.

[JediKeri.]

Hmmm...I thought it was the Apostle John...I guess I'll have to go back to my student bible and look it up...

[Darth Fabulous]

I always thought it was someone else too Rojo, but most of the evidence points to John the apostle as the author.

[Rojo]

Well, someone wrote it and it's a good read even if you don't believe it.

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by marbleman84@Mar 25 2003, 10:28 PM
i dont know anyone who took revelations to be literal. if it was it would be insanity, so i think its got to be some sort allegory. ???
Just like everything else in the gospel, parts of Revelation are literal, and parts are symbolic.

The part about two prophets who will be killed and lie dead in the streets of Jerusalem for three and a half days before being resurrected is considered to be a prophecy in my church (Rev 11:1-11). We believe that will literally happen and that it's one of the signs of the Second Coming of Christ. Of course, even this prophecy has symbolic elements in it such as "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit".

Other things, like the four beasts (Rev 4:6-8), are purely symbolic and I was taught that they represent the glory of the classes of beings in their destined order or sphere of creation. Their eyes are a representation of light and knowledge, or that they have knowledge; and their wings are a representation of power, to move, to act, etc.

[mirax terrik horn]

i agree with you on this one luvinna. some parts of the bible are meant to be taken literally and i dont think revelations is supposed to be taken literally, i think it is symbolic to what will happen in the end days. i do think that you can take all of the numbers at face value like when they say that one fourth or whatever will be wiped out by disease and famine and other things.

[Master_MJade]

yeah some are symbolicc(sp?) and others are literal

[Jors_Dedon]

I believe that Revelations should be taken literally... to a degree. I've heard tons of arguements about it... some saying that it already happened, some saying it is to come, and some saying that it will never happen.

[Master_MJade]

some has happened some is happening some is to come

[mirax terrik horn]

exactly like the parables of jesus some i would hope ppl dont take literally. they are meant to show a point. not for ppl to take literally and chop off there hand just because it makes them sin. those sort of things would be hyperbole an exageration, to get the truth or seroiusness across.

[Jors_Dedon]

true... but Jesus also told us that even he didn't know when it was to happen. He said that he will come when the world is like that of Noah's time. It hasn't gotten there quite yet... but we can never be sure. It could happen way in the future... or it could happen right now. Jesus told us that so we could prepare. If we keep that in our minds... it will hopefully bring us back to reality from chasing the things of the world, and realize what is truly important. The Earth is not our home... merely our training ground.

[Master_MJade]

yup

[mirax terrik horn]

so what do you (meaning everyone) believe i mean do you think that christ has already come or what?

[Jors_Dedon]

Are you talking to me Horn? If so...

I've heard arguements from people saying that Hitler was the anti-christ. I don't believe so... he was a wannabe. The real one will be much worse.

[mirax terrik horn]

no jors i wasnt just talking to you i was talking to everyone. but you still didnt answer the question. do you think christ has come yet? i myself believe he hasnt come cause if he had come we would be in a new zion that was perfect.

[Luvinna.]

Well, I believe that Christ came a couple of thousand years ago. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif As for the second time, no; I don't believe that has happened yet. I don't think there will be any doubt in anyone's mind as to what's happening when Christ comes again.

I also have to agree with MJade in that some of the things mentioned in Revelations (as well as Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel) have already happened.

[mirax terrik horn]

what do you mean?

[JediKeri.]

I believe that Jesus Christ's second comming has yet to happen.

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by mirax terrik horn@Mar 28 2003, 10:22 AM
what do you mean?
What do I mean by what? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eh.gif The part about everyone knowing when Christ comes again, or the part about things mentioned in Rev, Isa, Ezek, and Dan having already happened?

[mirax terrik horn]

Originally posted by Luvinna@Mar 28 2003, 12:21 PM


I also have to agree with MJade in that some of the things mentioned in Revelations (as well as Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel) have already happened.
that.

[Luvinna.]

Well, the most notable things that I believe have happened that are mentioned in those books (among others) are the Apostacy (a turning away from the truth by individuals, the Church, or entire nations) and the Restoration of the Gospel.

In Isaiah 29:9-14 (http://scriptures.lds.org/isa/29/9) it talks about how a deep sleep will come upon the land and the eyes of the prophets and rulers will be closed and how people are taught the precepts of men and not God. In Amos 8:11-13 (http://scriptures.lds.org/amos/8/11#11) it talks about a famine of the word of God and that people will look for it and not be able to find it. In 2 Thessolonians 2:3 (http://scriptures.lds.org/2_thes/2/3#3) it says that the Second Coming won't happen until there's been a falling away. In 2 Timothy 3:5 (http://scriptures.lds.org/2_tim/3/5#5) it says that people will claim to worship God, but deny His power. I believe all these things prophecy of an apostacy; a time when the truth of the Gospel would not be found on the earth.

Because of that apostacy, it would be necessary to restore the truth to the earth before Christ could come again. There's lots of scriptures that talk about the restoration of the Gospel in the last days. Back in Isaiah 29 (http://scriptures.lds.org/isa/29/9) it says that after this deep sleep, the Lord will proceed to do a marvelous work and a wonder, that a book which is sealed would be delivered to a man who is not learned, and that the eyes of the blind shall be able to read this book. Daniel 2 (http://scriptures.lds.org/dan/2/44#44) is Nebuchadnezzar's dream in which God will set up a kingdom that can't be destroyed. In Matthew 17:11 (http://scriptures.lds.org/matt/17/11#11) we're told that Elias would come and restore all things. In Acts 3:21 (http://scriptures.lds.org/acts/3/21#21) it says that there has to be a restitution of all things before Christ will come again. And in Revelations 14:6 (http://scriptures.lds.org/rev/14/6#6), John saw an angel coming to the earth and sharing the everlasting gospel.

I believe that the restoration of the Gospel started through Joseph Smith (yes guys, I'm Mormon style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif ) and that it's still happening today through modern-day prophets and apostles.

[mirax terrik horn]

ok interesting. i agree with you on the points about some of the things in the bible. but i dont agree with you on the joseph smith thing but if that is what you believe more power to you. so do you believe in christ being the messiah or do you believe that he was just a teacher or a prophet?

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by mirax terrik horn@Mar 28 2003, 11:27 AM
so do you believe in christ being the messiah or do you believe that he was just a teacher or a prophet?
I believe Christ was and is the Messiah mentioned in the OT.

[mirax terrik horn]

ok cool i wasnt clear on what muslim's believe about jesus. ty for clarifying. so just a question i have does anyone think that christ isnt the messiah and i you don't why? and also luvinna what do you believe about joseph smith? i mean in general.

[Luvinna.]

Originally posted by mirax terrik horn@Mar 28 2003, 11:38 AM
ok cool i wasnt clear on what muslim's believe about jesus. ty for clarifying.
Uh, did you mean "Mormons"? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet called of God and, as I said before, it was through him that the restoration of the true gospel of Jesus Christ began. I could go into it more, but that's basically what it boils down to. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[mirax terrik horn]

ok cool sorry that is what i meant.mormon not muslim i was just reading a thing from voice of the martyrs, and it was talking about some of the horrendous things muslims have done to ppl who have converted to christianity. makes me glad i am i a country that has a freedom of religion.

[Marbleman]

hey my friend was reading revelation and i dont want to get into a bible study or anything style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif but he wants to know about the "locusts" john spoke of. (assuming it was written by john) are they to be taken literally or as i have always thought: as modern helicopters?

luvinna, just curious. do all mormons believe in jesus christ as the messiah? i thought i read a mormon book one time that said jesus was not god but was satan's good brother. i might have gotten confused and mistook the book for mormon when it was really jehovahs witness. dont get mad or anything im quite ignorant on most religious things! :look:

[Jacen Solo]

May I add my perspective?
I, too, am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the Mormon church). I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God ... the Savior and Messiah of whom the prophets of old testified would come into the world at the meridian of time (that is, the time separating "B.C." from "A.D.").
Satan, at one time, was one of God's most elect spirit children, but because he rebelled he was cast out of heaven. He became the devil, the father of all lies and the author of sin. This is mentioned here, in Revelation 12:7-9 (http://scriptures.lds.org/rev/12).
I feel inclined to share a scripture from the Book of Mormon ... this scripture basically states (Luvinna, please correct me if I'm wrong) what we must do to be saved. The scripture is Moroni 10:32 (http://scriptures.lds.org/moro/10) (I have included the link here in case any of you are interested in reading further):
"Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in Him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind, and strength, then is His grace sufficient for you, that by His grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God."

[mirax terrik horn]

umm i think that when they are talking about the locusts i think that the bible is very clear and presice on what the are so i dont think that it is modern day helicopters i think it literally means locusts.

[Marbleman]

thanks fore the clarification, luuke. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif is there anyone who believes that john is talking about helicopters or did i just pull that out of a hat? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif like what does the pope have to say about the locusts? i know different denominations have differing opinions but im sure there is some general concensus?

[mirax terrik horn]

Originally posted by marbleman84@Mar 2