So What Do You Think of the Media?

[Teta]

Hi all. I just started a discussion on this in the Prequel Non-Spoilers thread, where I said NOT to refer to AOTC opinions or reviews. I suggest, before replying to this, you mosey over there and read my big long intro, because I discuss the history of recent film criticism, how snobbish the critcs are today, "choosing of favorites", and ways in which the film critic has become both less and more important. I don't have time to re-hash it here. The topics I brought up over there, are the same I'd like to be brought up here.

Only, this IS the place to discuss AOTC reviews, and more. So
have fun! I will be back in here when I've seen the film. (Next Sat.)

~T~

At the request of Teta the following has been added - RB

This subject came up as I was staring at the cover of the new Entertainment Weekly today. I have been wondering just how much influence the media have on films. As far as how reviews affect potential box office, the validity and wisdom of critics, their snobbishness and over-inflated sense of self-importance, etc.

One important fact: It is a paradox that critics are both now less and more important than they used to be. To give a bit of historical trivia: Back when "Empire "came out, say, in that era, critical opinion used to be VERY important. The influencial critic Pauline Kael, for example, held sway over a great many others. She was notoriously cynical, (to the point of legendariness)but any film she praised (she LOVED ANH and Empire) soared to the skies. Back then, films were not pulled apart months on advance by rigorous test-marketing, and the studios had a time-tested pattern of opening a film small, then allowing it to slowly build at the BO after a gradually increasing buildup of critical buzz and word of mouth. Al films were "sleeper" hits then. Advertising budgets, though huge, were pitiful by today's standards, since it wasn't important for a film to open big on first wknd. With less pressure to make immediate fantastic returns, films could build their audiences of critical buzz alone. And critical bizz was often what created corresponding word of mouth. With cable stations showing movies only, and no Internet, and the era of TV entertainment shows just beginning, critics were still important. There were far less of them, too; so the ones people read were fairly well known.

Today, with so many media outlets to advertise, critics have become a dime a dozen. There are far too many, and as often as not, half of them (IMHO) have no origional opinions, and turn to fan reviews on the Internet for their stories. Many of them are studio lackeys who thrive on expensive junkets (well, that has always been true, but now the junkets have proliferated, and have become more important than ever. For those of you who don't know what a press junket is, it is the practice of studio's "hosting" a critic with a lavish screen viewing, and gifts, often involving expensive banquets, vacation stays, etc, in return for a favorable review. Some critics have built quite a nice lifestyle on this). A few modern critics for a few major media outlets come to mind--Richard Corliss of Time magazine, constantly courted by Disney, for example *Cough cough*.

As a whole, the role of the criitc has thus diminished. Bombarded on all sides by amateur Internet scoopers (Harry KNowles, etc), cable networks, etc, no-one places them in as much importance. Studios place far more faith these days on a relentless and disgustingly astronomical advertising budget, designed to pullin the punters that crucial first weekned. This is to satisfy the mega-conglomerates who own the studios, who in turn have to keep their stock share up. Wall Street leaves no time for failure.

One practice I noticed, perhaps as a result of this, is that most of the critics for most major traditional media outlets (Time, Newsweek, ET, the TV networks, newspapers like the NY Times, etc) have become increasingly cliquish. This may be the result of their going to the Internet for scoops, and taking fans' lead--or not. Most of them choose one film franchise or studio over another--Corliss, for example, loves Disney animated films and hates Dreamworks.) There is a distressnig lack of eguilitarianism out ther etoday--a lack of people who look at a film for its unique merits, and love different franchises for their own reasons. If you love SW< you have to hate Tolkien, for example, and Trek; or vice versa. MAny times this is done just to create good old fashioned speculation, but nowadays, with so much competition out there, it is NOT in the spirit of fun. In this case, the critics are even more important than they were. It was criical acclaim that led so many ppl to see "Shrek", who wouldn't have seen it otherwise. And as a result, DIsney fared poor at the OScars.

[Rob]

Hey folks...let them rip....

Go ahead and get yourself an account here, it takes less than five minutes, and then let your opinions fly on what the media says.

Please do not post full reviews here, only links. Then have it the reviews. Support them, rip them a new one, you decide.

[Peach Wookiee]

Hi, folks! I'm new to this forum.
I just listened to Mort Kondracke on Fox News Channel say that "a lot of critics" were already bashing the film! Funny. Two mainstream critics are already giving it good reviews... Joel Siegel and Roger Ebert. I don't know whose reviews Mort is reading, but I don't think he's getting a "fair and balanced" set of reviews.
I think that some critics are going to hate the film, no matter what. They don't like George Lucas, and they don't like sci-fi, as a rule.
I am anticipating this movie, just as I did TPM. And, darn it, I liked TPM. From what I've seen of AOTC and heard of the soundtrack, I am most likely going to love this movie!
I am ignoring the bashers! :D style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

[Teek]

Actually Ebert gave AOTC 2 stars out of 4, the lowest review he had given for a SW film I think. The reviews for this one has been more balanced than TPM's were, which is good.

[Rob]

Ebert is a putz. He always hands good flicks bad reviews.

He's an art film freak methinks.

[Vibroblade]

Siegel, Time, CNN, Variety, E!(preview to the review), Roeper, and to a lesser extent Peter Travers. All good reviews all mainstream critics.

Still the mainstreamers have been a leaning toward the nagative at this point. Only a few have weighed in but my suspicion is that the majority will bash AOTC.

Sorry about not posting the links to the reviews Teek. The server has just been to slow for me to do that.

[Teek]

Tis okay Vibro.

[Vibroblade]

This is a preview from the Chicago Tribune:

Michael Wilmington-critic

"- "Star Wars: Episode II -- Attack of the Clones" (U.S.; director George Lucas). The most exciting and visually spectacular of all "Star Wars" movies to date brings the story to a new war and Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen) and ex-Queen Amidala (Natalie Portman) to the brink of giving us Luke Skywalker. In terms of effects and digital magic, this is state of the art plus; the story isn't bad either. Thursday.
"

It sounds pretty positive which could prelude a good official review. Unfortunately, Mark Caro usually does the big ones....for the record, he ( Mark Caro ) trashed TPM.

[Vibroblade]

Mostly negative review from John Anderson.

Newsday review (http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/ny-starwars0512.story)

[Vibroblade]

Pretty negative review from NYDaily news

http://www.nydailynews.com/2002-05-12/New_...es/a-150614.asp (http://www.nydailynews.com/2002-05-12/New_York_Now/Movies/a-150614.asp)

[Vibroblade]

Mixed review from Newsweek:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/750955.asp?0dm=-17EK#BODY

[Vibroblade]

Very postive review NY Post:

http://www.nypost.com/movies/051202.htm

[Vibroblade]

Mixed/negative review Philly Inquirer:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/entertainment/3248460.htm

[Vibroblade]

I have reliable sources saying USA today will be mostly postive. We shall see...

[Powerful Jedi]

So far I have only read two reviews. And in both they said that it was boring and full of clichés! :(

They were both from British papers - one is the Daily Express and the other was the Sunday Mirror! As a rule I don't read reviews as I don't want them to warp my attitude even before I seen the movie! The film critics in both papers look like boring all farts themsleves anyway, so I'm not even going to take notice of these reviews!

What I've seen so far from the TV spots and trailers, Episode II: Attack of the Clones, looks to be in with the good old original trilogy! It looks BRILLIANT!

(By the way Mr. Lucas, if you happen to be reading this, because I know you read all this fan stuff online, Phantom menace was OK too) :)

[scoob7146]

I'm new to this message board but i was really upset after reading some of the AOTC reviews by so called critics and had to vent. It is my feeling that they just dont get it. It seems movie critics these days are not movie fans but a bunch of overly classy(you know snobbish) jackasses who try to caiter to people like themselves (the ones with money, whick seems to determine if you are important) and push artsy crap and oscar canidate movies instead of seeing movies for enjoyment, which is what it should be about. They find it easy to rip star wars because they can, and everybody else is, and fail to see that it is a fun experiance. Even TPM, which I found to be just the way it needed to be written, alot of polotics and the very small birth of what we will see develop into a romance. I think we need a well voiced critic to represent OUR feelings of going to see movies for fun, not to hand out awards...................thank you for the vent.

[Teek]

Welcome to the forum scoob7146. A lot of the SW web masters who have had a chance to see the film have loved it, and I find that reassuring.

[Bithysith]

Ebert is a putz. *He always hands good flicks bad reviews.

I don't know what to think of Ebert – he can be so inconsistent in his reviews. *For instance, he gave "The Usual Suspects" only 1 1/2 stars. * style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Teta]

Hey, JN Prequels Admin, (whoever you are:), can you do me a favor? Can you paste my opening post in the Non-Spoiler Media thread onto here? I really want people to read that stuff, b/c it gives a LOT of fuel for the media bonfire. I'm such a techo idiot, I don't know how style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

Nice to see some reviews popping up already. Thanks guys for linking them, and NOT quoting them! I can't look at any until after I've seen the film. And it;s nice to know there's a place where I can print them all out w/o going to a zillion different sites. I'm doing an AOTC Opening Week scrapbook.

Just general observation though: Since Siskel rode off into the sunset, ebert has become a first class idiot. I think he has succumbed to the media junket crap. He publicly bashed LOTR repeatedly during Oscar season, and really insultingly. Well, history has proven him wrong.

And generally, mixed reviews don't come as surprise. The only time critics loved SW was when it was brand new. After that, when GL started making serious money and remaining independent and getting away with it, Tinseltown turned against him. When ppl felt sorry for GL as a struggling young filmmaker, it was nice to be nice to him. But now that he has what everyone wants--total creative control without any sacrifice--they hate him. And always will. It's a testament to how good the film must really be, that so many critics who have said bad things in the past, are pparently being much warmer this time around, from what I've read of your comments.

Most importantly, though, are the fan reviews, which I haven't read. The fans are even more than the critics concerned about what matters: story, plot, string characterization, and diologue. The fans are the harshest critics. If they have been won over, than all is said and done.

[Teek]

I just recently heard Kevin Smith likes Ep. II. I think that bodes pretty well, he didn't like TPM and he could be considered a fan boy.

[Powerful Jedi]

I just watched Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones. *All I can say is.... *Entertaining! *:)

I am actually quite disapointed with the Obi-Wan/Jango fight! *It lasted quite literally 2 minutes! *Actually, it probably wasn't even that long!

Great chunks, that we have heard so much about, haven't even made it into the final feature, such as the Jocasta Nu/Obi-Wan conversation regarding Count Dooku and the Lost 20! *In fact, the Lost 20 isn't even mentioned anywhere in the movie???

I don't know if its because I was watching it on my imac, or whether my expectations were too high, but the part of the movie where Anakin gets his arm lopped off, didn't seem that climactic, as it did when it happened to Luke! *Yoda is good - leaping around like a gremlin on a combination of speed and poppers, and the much hyped Mace Windu was quite border-line! *I was expecting much more action from him. *In fact I felt that the Anakin/Obi-wan/Dooku battle was almost just there as a lead up to the Yoda/Dooku battle. *An excuse to get to the Yoda battle. *Maybe??

I also felt that... I know some people are going to disagree here... but the plot for Phantom Menace was stronger.

Another part of the movie, that i didn't really see the point in or understand why, is why does R2-R2 push C-3PO off the ledge onto the conveyer belt? (Similar to Return of the Jedi) *Is it an excuse to show that R2 has rocket jets, or as a reason to put humour into the situation, as C-3PO has his head put onto a battle droids body and a battle droids head put onto his body???? *The way GL's head has been working, while writing these new episodes is best left alone! *Lets just hope that Episode 3 will help bring the standard of the new trilogy, up to the standard of the old one!

I feel the best parts of this movie both come from Hayden Christiansen. *Shmi's death scene was so convincing, the emotional change from grieving to anger and hatred in Hayden's face was magical! *The other scene is where Anakin explains what he has done, to padmé.

PADME: *I brought you something. *Are you hungry?
ANAKIN: *The shifter broke. *Life seems so much simpiler when you're fixing things. *I'm good at fixing things... Always was. *But I couldn't.... Why'd she have to die? *Why couldn't I save her? *I know I could have.
PADME: *Sometimes there are things no one can fix. *You're not all powerful Annie...
ANAKIN: *Well I should be... Someday I will be... I will be the most powerful jedi ever... I promise you. *I will even learn to stop people from dying.
PADME: *Anakin...?
ANAKIN: *Its all Obi-Wna's fault... He's jealous... He's holding me back.
PADME: *Whats wrong Annie?
ANAKIN: I... I killed them. *I killed them all. *Their dead. *Every single one of them. *Not just the men. *But the women. *And the children too. *Their like animals. *And I slaughtered them like animals. *I hate them.

Anakin then sits on the ground, up against the counter. *Padmé sits next to him, and comforts him.

I think this is the most powerful scene in the whole movie. *Obviously when he talks about the men, women and children, he's talking about the sand people he killed in a couple of scenes previous. *Actually, its more like 3 sand people, the rest is left to your imagination!

Oh yeah, another little spoiler.... *Which I was shocked to see and really excited about... *We get to see the plans for the Death Star. *They are now in the safe keeping of Dooku. *It seems the Genosisians are the builders of the classic Death Star (Known in AOTC as the Ultimate Weapon). *The plans are in form of a small red hologram of the Death Star. *A similar hologram as Qui-Gon used when making the deal with Watto in Phantom Meance.

And yes it was the full movie - 2 hours 22 minures!!!

[Vibroblade]

More reviews:

Positive:New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/critics/cinema/?020520crci_cinema)

Positive:
Chicago Tribune (http://www.metromix.com/top/1,1419,M-Metromix-Movies-starwarseventwilmingtonreview!ArticleDetail-16605,00.html)

Negative:
Chicago Tribune (http://metromix.com/top/1,1419,M-Metromix-Movies-moviefrontcaroreview!ArticleDetail-16611,00.html)

[Tovor]

Jar Jar wrote:
Please do not post full reviews here, only links. *

Powerful Jedi, I know this is in the spoiler section, but this thread was supposed to be to discuss the media and its reviews of AOTC, not write out a play by play description of the movie. *Robert created another thread other than this one for people to discuss AOTC in complete detail. *I came here to read other people's opinions on how the professional critics are fairly or unfairly praising or bashing AOTC and SW in general in the media. *With that as my purpose here I hadn't expected to come across actual descriptions and details of the movie itself. *Your message, thought well written, is misplaced in this thread, and should be in the AOTC Fan Review Thread. *In fact, you yourself created a review thread, so why did you put that message in this one?

[Peach Wookiee]

I take back my earlier comments about Roger Ebert, now that I saw that &#(&!&%(!'s review on "Ebert and Roeper" on Sunday night. Young Roeper has a far better perspective on AOTC. :biggrin: I got the book this evening and read it. I am looking forward to seeing it on the big screen! Powerful Jedi, I agree with you on the Padme/ Anakin scene, though I have seen it only in my mind, at present. See it in the theaters, and you'll like the effects much better, I think.

[bluemilk]

Oddly enough, when I read Robert Eberts initial review of The Phantom Menance *smirk* he gave it 4 out of 4 stars. Now he merely rates it at 2.5 stars. Interesting how critics who believe they are above the average moviegoer's opinions, seem so easily swayed but them.

I wish I had that article printed in the newspaper as proof of this.

[RollaFett]

Now, I tend to see what I want, and am seldom swayed by the opinion of a reviewer, but usually respect those opinions, because many people I know come to me to ask about a movie before they've seen it if they know I've seen it. In addition, I generally agree with a lot of Ebert's reviews. That said, I totally agree with what you just posted, Bluemilk. I recall, back in '99, seeing ads for TPM in the movie section of the paper, and with it, would be a quote from Ebert, "Thumbs up...with a lot of admiration!". And now, he's changed his mind. Ugh. Why?! Stick by your guns, I say, especially when you're so enthusiastic to begin with.