Would the PT be better if most people hadn't seen the OT? A thought.

[electric]

What I mean is, most people had at least a basic idea of what was going to happen in the PT before they saw the movies, and by the time Ep. III came out, I don't think there was a single person in the theatres audience who didn't know that Anakin would fall and turn into Vader.

This makes me think... wonder how different the PT and Ep. III would seem for someone who watched I and II then watched III without any preconceptions about the OT, which he watches afterwards? There were a lot of hints in the pre-Vader PT of what was going to happen, especially in Yoda and Windu's dialogue that seemed almost prophetic.
I'd still think that, watching them without knowing anything about the OT, the last hour or so of Ep. III would seem totally different. The whole perspective with watching the OT for the first time aftewards would also change quite a lot, including maybe a better understanding of Luke's belief that Vader could be saved, and especially some cringing and Leia kissing Luke in ESB and saying that she remembered her mother in ROTJ.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the PT movies generally have lower ratings in reviews than the OT, since people watched them already knowing what would happen. Even Ep. II seems a bit dull when you're just sitting there expecting Anakin to fall and see all those "shy attempts" like the thing with the sand people or how he complains about Obi-Wan, and attention is focused on that instead of the movie's story which should essentially be viewed IMO as a mystery/suspense thing to see how's behind trying to kill Padme

Dunno if I'm making much sense, but whatever. Peace :grouphug:

[Talcy]

One of the bigggest problems would be a lack of exposition which is included in Star Wars, particularly where Obi Wan explains the Force to Luke. There is no similar scene in the PT and so audiences might be confused when they see the heroes jumping around and playing mind tricks on people when they have no idea how they do it.

[Mothman]

Unfortunately, we can't have a memory wipe like 3PO, so we'll never really know.

Depending on which version of history you believe, GL once said that he never intended to make the PT. It was simply the backstory to the OT and was never supposed to be filmed. It was there only to explain who the characters were and where they came from and to set up the events of the OT. He wanted the OT to feel like you just came into a Saturday-afternoon serial and you hadn't seen the previous chapter.


:bye:

[electric]

Unfortunately, we can't have a memory wipe like 3PO, so we'll never really know.

Depending on which version of history you believe, GL once said that he never intended to make the PT. It was simply the backstory to the OT and was never supposed to be filmed. It was there only to explain who the characters were and where they came from and to set up the events of the OT. He wanted the OT to feel like you just came into a Saturday-afternoon serial and you hadn't seen the previous chapter.


:bye:

Kinda weird though, when even in the 80s they called ESB "episode 5"
I remember as a kid wondering why if there were only 3 movies they were not episode 1, 2, 3 but rather 4, 5, 6... I mean, it really does look like there may at least have been some kind of plan to make prequels since why else did he number the episodes 4-6

[Jedi Master Harrison]

To answer your original question, possibly, yes. As you say, when watching the PT if you had no previous concept about where it was going there would be a lot more suspense.

IMO the range of characters and the political aspects of the PT are enthralling. Arguably the films look far better too. However I just don't think you could ever match the magic of the OT with anything else as it truly is a one off.

The PT if it had came first would have had to explain more, as Talcy suggested. However, it gave many fans what they wanted, the knowledge of where various characters came from and the reasons why there was an Empire vs Rebels etc. I really enjoyed the PT and felt satisfactorily 'complete' when I finally saw the 'conclusion' of the story.

With regard to the way the episodes are numbered, yes, there was always the idea of something previous to the OT, however I think the point is that it was perhaps never going to be filmed, although perhaps it may have come out in written form or something? Perhaps one of the other Senators may know more about this.

[Fallen One]

Well I think it would be fair to say that the 20 years between the trilogies was crammed with comics,books,toys etc etc the story was pretty much known as to what was going to take place therefore it seemed less magical than the OT.

[AnaSkywalker]

Well, i watched the PT before the OT and had no idea about anything except Vader(hey, it was all over the cereal boxes!!), so the palpatine = emperor totally surprised me, as well as anakin having to kids and lots of other things. the PT impressed me, of course, and looked much flashier and 'way cool', but the original trilogy is more powerful and more deep, or seems to be, plus the main character can actually ACT.

[Rabid Whiphid]

Well, i watched the PT before the OT and had no idea about anything except Vader(hey, it was all over the cereal boxes!!), so the palpatine = emperor totally surprised me, as well as anakin having to kids and lots of other things. the PT impressed me, of course, and looked much flashier and 'way cool', but the original trilogy is more powerful and more deep, or seems to be, plus the main character can actually ACT.


Wow, Ana, I don't know how young you are... but you are an example of a whole new generation that will actually experience SW by watching it in numerical order (Ep. 1,2,3,4,5,6) rather than the order the films were made (4,5,6, ...wait 16 years... then 1,2,3), as my generation did! That's very interesting because it must give you a totally different perspective on the characters and story.

Anyway, to answer the original question - It's impossible to say if SW would have had the same impact if the PT films had been released first, then the OT. I think the biggest factor would be, what year or time-period the whole thing started in. In other words, are you saying, what if Episode 1 was the very first SW film ever made, and it came out in 1977... when Ep.4 (the actual first film made) came out? Or are you saying, what if there was no SW at all, until Episode 1 came out in 1999, and then followed through with Ep2 in 2002, Ep3 in 2005, Ep4 in 2008, Ep5 in 2011, and Ep6 in 2014? I think the time in history when the films came out would make a huge difference as to how the world responded to them.

[lovelucas]

It’s been said before but just to reiterate: the OT was absolutely pummeled by critics for bad acting. Actually IMO you can’t get worse than Mark in ANH and Harrison and Carrie in RotJ when Harrison walked through his role and Carrie with the Ewoks was just…..hard to watch. I love both trilogies but also love that it unfolded the way it did…..dropped in the middle of a Saturday matinee serial and finding out decades later what proceeded ANH. And for me, the PT has as much if not more gravitas, and heavy stuff that makes you think. The Living Force/Midichlorians (with a link to our own bodies, actually)/fear leads to…….etc/ - actually Yodaisms both in the OT and the PT are my favorite dialogue.

And I will say both Hayden and Mark did credible acting jobs with even wonderful moments/scenes in their respective last opportunities to be in Star Wars.

[Cassus Fett]

Unfortunately, we can't have a memory wipe like 3PO, so we'll never really know.


Actually we can, its called Amnesia.

[electric]

Well on topic today I watched TPM and AOTC with my aunt and uncle from Italy, both of which have absolutely no preconception of Star Wars, and they both loved it. They want to see the rest tomorrow. I guess this is going to be fun.

Funny thing is that they both couldn't stop saying how much they liked little kid Ani in TPM. They were also really disappointed when Qui-Gon died and were thinking that Anakin would never be trained.

When AOTC started, they thought Hayden was Obi-Wan in the elevator scene in the beginning, so I had to say that no this is 10 years after the first movie and Obi-Wan is the bearded one

[borgmatrix]

One of the bigggest problems would be a lack of exposition which is included in Star Wars, particularly where Obi Wan explains the Force to Luke. There is no similar scene in the PT and so audiences might be confused when they see the heroes jumping around and playing mind tricks on people when they have no idea how they do it.
That's what my dad experienced. He hadn't seen the SW films, but was interested in seeing ROTS at the theater with my brothers and I, so we watched AOTC on dvd, went and saw ROTS, and then watched the OT on dvd in the weeks after that.

When watching AOTC, his first SW experience, he almost jumped out of his chair when Obi-wan and Anakin sensed something in Padme's room and rushed in to save her. "How'd they know!!!" he exclaimed. At which point I had to quickly give him an overview of the Force and how certain characters could use it to do extraordinary things.

Now, granted, he hadn't seen TPM, but even if we'd started with that one, like you said, there's no explanation of the Force like in ANH. There's the MC discussion between Qui-gon and Anakin, but that's midway through the film.

Overall, though, he did enjoy them. He seemed to prefer the OT.

[Fish1941]

What I mean is, most people had at least a basic idea of what was going to happen in the PT before they saw the movies, and by the time Ep. III came out, I don't think there was a single person in the theatres audience who didn't know that Anakin would fall and turn into Vader.

This makes me think... wonder how different the PT and Ep. III would seem for someone who watched I and II then watched III without any preconceptions about the OT, which he watches afterwards? There were a lot of hints in the pre-Vader PT of what was going to happen, especially in Yoda and Windu's dialogue that seemed almost prophetic.
I'd still think that, watching them without knowing anything about the OT, the last hour or so of Ep. III would seem totally different. The whole perspective with watching the OT for the first time aftewards would also change quite a lot, including maybe a better understanding of Luke's belief that Vader could be saved, and especially some cringing and Leia kissing Luke in ESB and saying that she remembered her mother in ROTJ.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the PT movies generally have lower ratings in reviews than the OT, since people watched them already knowing what would happen. Even Ep. II seems a bit dull when you're just sitting there expecting Anakin to fall and see all those "shy attempts" like the thing with the sand people or how he complains about Obi-Wan, and attention is focused on that instead of the movie's story which should essentially be viewed IMO as a mystery/suspense thing to see how's behind trying to kill Padme

Dunno if I'm making much sense, but whatever. Peace :grouphug:


First of all, I don't accept the notion that PT could have been better. If that was true, then one might as well say the same about the OT, as far as I'm concerned.

And I also feel that it doesn't matter whether a person saw the OT or the PT first. It all depends upon the opinion of the individual viewer.

[electric]

First of all, I don't accept the notion that PT could have been better. If that was true, then one might as well say the same about the OT, as far as I'm concerned.

And I also feel that it doesn't matter whether a person saw the OT or the PT first. It all depends upon the opinion of the individual viewer.

Not really sure I understand what you mean there :blink:
Maybe I didn't explain myself well. What I mean is, usually you don't enjoy a movie or a novel or whatever as much if someone spoils the ending for you, because the surprise and suspense disappears. Pretty much everyone who watched AOTC and ROTS knew what was going to happen. The biggest plot element was spoiled for something like 99.9% of the viewers. I was thinking that this perhaps this has made the experience of watching those movies less enjoyable for a lot of people, which is what I meant when I said "would the PT be better"

[borgmatrix]

Pretty much everyone who watched AOTC and ROTS knew what was going to happen. The biggest plot element was spoiled for something like 99.9% of the viewers. I was thinking that this perhaps this has made the experience of watching those movies less enjoyable for a lot of people, which is what I meant when I said "would the PT be better"
That could be. But I think in a case like this, where we know the "what" of the story, we end up looking instead for the "how". That's what really fueled my interest in the PT, seeing how everything came to be. And really, with these types of movies, we know how they're going to end anyway: good guys win, the bad guys are defeated. With the OT, I don't think there was ever any real doubt that the Empire would be defeated and the Rebel Alliance would win. What was interesting and sustained interest was seeing how all the pieces were moved around to get us to that ending.

I think the PT was disappointing for most because of SW no longer being as unique and having stronger competition than in 1977. And I think many forgot what SW was really about, ignoring Lucas' influences and what he was truly after.

[Fish1941]

Maybe I didn't explain myself well. What I mean is, usually you don't enjoy a movie or a novel or whatever as much if someone spoils the ending for you, because the surprise and suspense disappears. Pretty much everyone who watched AOTC and ROTS knew what was going to happen. The biggest plot element was spoiled for something like 99.9% of the viewers.

Was it really? Even though many knew how the story would end, many SW fans still ended up being surprised by many plot elements in the PT. Lucas had managed to surprise many fans by going against their expectations in many of the trilogy's storylines.

[electric]

Well, I finished watching all six movies with my aunt and uncle...
Was quite interesting to hear from people who were experiencing it the first time. They both say their favorite of the 6 movies was ANH, followed by TPM. For some reason, they didn't like ESB that much and found ROTJ disappointing although they liked the ending. They figured out pretty easily that Vader was going to kill the emperor and were sure it was going to happen so there was no real surprise in the final battle.
My aunt also said that Anakin and Padme were cuter than Luke and Leia.

[melissa_ladyvader]

see with me...im not picky in films...but i do agree that mr. hayden christensen did a veryyy fantastic job portraying both anakin skywalker and darth vader....i just feel bad mostly for george lucas
it took him a long time to write the story behind "star wars"...and thats what made it so big....i just wish people would think...and give the poor man some credit for everything he has worked hard for.

both the ot and pt were very very very well done.....especially pt
i just love how george explained the early life of anakin skywalker to his fall of becoming lord vader and crumbling to the dark-side...u know thats something never to forget....

[Galileo]

....i just feel bad mostly for george lucas
it took him a long time to write the story behind "star wars"...

Melissa, I should start by saying that I prefer the PT to the OT but I disagree with your statement that I quoted above. I feel that the scripts for TPM and AOTC were rushed. They felt a lot like first drafts. If you look at the amounts of rewrites for ANH, which you can find on www.simplyscripts.com, you'll see that there were many rewrites and he really worked hard on hammering out the story of ANH. This is just not the case with the first 2 prequels. ROTS does not surfer from that as much.

I think that if he would have spent less time on the events of TPM and more on the events of AOTC and ROTS the PT would have been a lot more solid and coherent.

[lovelucas]

but...in TPM it was important to establish so much of this back story - and every element seems relevant and important to the story so I don't know what you could ask George to eliminate.
We need the diversion of Battle of Naboo, the Separatists involvement as beard for Palpatine/Sidious - illustrating how he was able to orchestrate and manipulate the galaxy slowly and patiently where no one knew what hit them until RotS. It all began in TPM.
We need to see the innocense of Anakin as a generous child who loves his mother and hates being a slave. and the meeting of Padme and Anakin. and Padme as Queen Amidala, that she is politically aware, has sacrificed her personal life to devote all of her time to the Republic.
We need to see the succession of the Jedi - how they operated in the glory years and continued the tradition of master and padawan which mirrored the sith and apprentice relationship.
We needed to see that there was disagreement among the Jedi - that there was both the Living Force and the Unifying Force and that one Jedi believed the Council was wrong in their basic philosophy.....and that he set things in motion to change all of that....and that he died.
Some may say Jar Jar wasn't important.....but he and his people are what saved Naboo. and speaking of Naboo, we needed to see that Queen Amidala/Padme believed in Palpatine ~ she had known him for years since they both called Naboo home.

so....I'm not sure what you could eliminate. The pod race? That revealed how loaded with midichlorians Anakin was and that he may be what Qui Gon believed him to be: the chosen one. and provided the means for Anakin to leave Tatooine no longer a slave. We needed to see Anakin leave Shmi and how much it hurt them both.

What do you cut out? I want it all.

[Galileo]

I would have Anakin be older, say about 12 years old. Also the whole being stranded on Tatooine and not be able to call for help is a superfluous plot device. As far as I'm concerned they could have been stranded on Tatooine try to buy the parts to repair the ship, meet Anakin, figure out he's the one, called 20 Jedi to come and bail them out, this would have done away with the pod race and given Lucas more time to show us how Palpatine is manipulating things.

I mean there's a some judicial editing that could be done to make the film flow a little better and more efficiently.

I too want it all but I don't want plot devices that were a showcase for what ILM can do, which is what the pod race felt like to me. I am a big fan of the political sub plot and would have liked to see more of it. I am new to the expanded universe and found out that there's a book called Cloak of Deception that lays out all of Palpatine's maneuverings. I'm going to pick it up.

Ciao

[Jedi Master Elad Kenobi]

I know one person who hadn't ever seen Star was! I showed him all the movies and he was amased about the Anakin/vader thing!

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I would have Anakin be older, say about 12 years old. Also the whole being stranded on Tatooine and not be able to call for help is a superfluous plot device. As far as I'm concerned they could have been stranded on Tatooine try to buy the parts to repair the ship, meet Anakin, figure out he's the one, called 20 Jedi to come and bail them out, this would have done away with the pod race and given Lucas more time to show us how Palpatine is manipulating things.

I mean there's a some judicial editing that could be done to make the film flow a little better and more efficiently.

I too want it all but I don't want plot devices that were a showcase for what ILM can do, which is what the pod race felt like to me. I am a big fan of the political sub plot and would have liked to see more of it. I am new to the expanded universe and found out that there's a book called Cloak of Deception that lays out all of Palpatine's maneuverings. I'm going to pick it up.

Ciao

If you like the political sub plot then Cloak of Deception is definitely for you. I just finished reading it and really enjoyed it, it ties in very well with the events at the beginning of TPM.

I also want all aspects of TPM, but I feel that the pod racing scene could just have been done quicker. I remember sitting in the cinema thinking, how long is this going on for? I just wanted to see the story develop, if you tell me Anakin has the highest midichlorian count ever seen then I accept that he will have exceptional skills, I don't need 15 minutes of him in a flying go kart!

Wow, I think that is the most critical I've ever been of a SW film. I need to go and watch TPM and say 100 'Jar-Jars' in repentance! :lol:

[Mothman]

.....this would have done away with the pod race and given Lucas more time to show us how Palpatine is manipulating things.....

IMO, the whole point was to not show Palpatine manipulating things any more than what we saw. We weren't supposed to know that Mr. Palpatine and Mr. Sidious were the same person until later in the saga. (He was the phantom menace.)


:bye:

[Blizzard]

I agree with Mothman.

Also, everyone keeps forgetting these movies were made for KIDS! We WERE kids in the 70's and 80's. It didn't matter what movies Lucas made 20 years later, for some they would never give the adults the magic they were looking for from their childhood.

I Loved the PT. I am thankful Lucas allowed us more of what we love. The only thing that could have made it better was being a kid again.

[Fish1941]

What do you cut out? I want it all.


So do I.