Several Questions

[AnaSkywalker]

I"ve recently started showing my dad the Star Wars movies because, well, he hasn't seen the movies, but saw me watching part of episode 6 and started criticising it. So i've made him promise that he'll refrain from it until I can show him all the movies. I recently showed him episodes 1 and 3 and we have a 40 minute debate over dinner and kept going in a circle. So I'm going to ask for some help in answering his questions, because he won't accept my answers and keeps asking the same questions again.

so...

1)firstly, he says that the notion of good and evil in star wars is very medieval and that if this is futuristic why is it so anti progressive? "they fight with swords(lightsabers), just like in the middle ages", he says. I explained about the force, the jedi arts, etc...and he refused to listen.
2)if there are robots, why are slaves required, such as the ones on tatooine? my first answer was that tatooine is a poor place and therefore they have slaves instead of robots.
3)if they're slaves, how come they have good technology such as sliding doors and where did anakin get all the supplies to build his racing pod?
4)a harder question: what is the moral of SW and is there one?

[Emalin]

First of all, :welcome:

As to your questions:

Question #1 -- In my opinion, if the notion of good and evil in SW is very medieval, then the people of medieval times were closer to being right than we are.
Question #2 -- I would agree with your first answer. Maybe slaves were more productive or profitable to keep.
Question #3 -- sliding doors might not be considered "good technology" in the future. They might be pretty commonplace.
Question #4 -- the moral I see is that no man, no matter how far he falls, is beyond redemption.

Hope this helps! :D

[thepepgal]

1) Even in today's society there are swords and people fight with them. It is only done by a small elite. It is based on the Sholin warriors who still use swords after more than 1000 years. There isn't many of them but then neither is there many jedi considering the population of SW.

2)Slaves are cheaper to buy that robots and are less likely to break down in the harsh climate of Tattooine. People often originally to make their fortune in mining but after that fail alot of people couldn't pay their way home so they now work for nothing in the hope they will save enough to get home. Others are stolen from their planets elsewhere and sold into slavery against their wishes (ie Jabba's dancers).

3) He savanges the parts from Watto's yard and elsewhere. Sliding doors are the norm in this society. The actual rooms are basic but there isn't any doors that don't slide in SW.

4)Yes there is one. It is that if you believe and love anything is possible.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

1)firstly, he says that the notion of good and evil in star wars is very medieval and that if this is futuristic why is it so anti progressive? "they fight with swords(lightsabers), just like in the middle ages", he says. I explained about the force, the jedi arts, etc...and he refused to listen.
2)if there are robots, why are slaves required, such as the ones on tatooine? my first answer was that tatooine is a poor place and therefore they have slaves instead of robots.
3)if they're slaves, how come they have good technology such as sliding doors and where did anakin get all the supplies to build his racing pod?
4)a harder question: what is the moral of SW and is there one?

I don't think I can expand much on the info the ladies have provided above, but here is my take on those questions:

1. Firstly, the introduction states a long time ago in..... so although to us the technology is futuristic, SW is effectively historic. I believe that this was always GL's intention, as he thinks of the past as a more chivalrous age. Hence using swords, albeit hi-tech ones. This is also portrayed in the 'olde worlde' love scenes between Anakin & Padme. I would disagree that SW view of good and evil is anti-progressive, but this is probably as I am the type that sees things very black and white myself anyway.

2. Tattooine is a very different planet to others in the SW universe. It is out of the way and controlled by gangsters. It is behind other planets in terms of social progression, hence slavery is still considered acceptable. Robots had not been created which were capable of every task and obviously they need to be maintained etc. My supposition is that not everyone could afford a hi-tech robot but that it was much cheaper to have a human slave.

3. Sliding doors in the SW world are not actually that hi-tech, IMO. I mean, we have automatic doors today but we do not have the amazing spacecraft or lightsabers. I imagine they weren't that poor that they couldn't afford these doors. On a planet full of notorious types it would be possible to get hold of almost anything, bartering was commonplace, people would end up trading anything to keep from being caught by whoever was looking for them. Of course he also would have been able to get hold of old parts from Watto's shop.

4. Wow, I think you could read many morals into the Saga. The 2 main ones are those that Emalin & Pep have mentioned. I would also say there are morals relating to loyalty, truth, friendship and about change. I think that the SW Saga is something that you could look into on so many different levels, that is part of its appeal to the whole spectrum of people.

[DblDwn]

I have a question: what is your dad's favorite movie or movies?

[AnaSkywalker]

DblDwn-I think part of the problem is that my dad hates 99.9% of all hollywood movies and the movies he does like are ones directed by Woody Allen or Russian ones. However, I have gotten him to appreciate pirates of the carribbean, and a couple others so if only he'd be a bit more open minded and listen to my arguments instead of ignoring them, then maybe he'd understand.

and emalin: i noticed on the user CP page that you made a comment on this thread about liking my avatar-thanks! it's not very good, i have to touch it up or use a better pic, but until I get a chance this is staying.

and another question: the whole notion of kings, queen and princesses in star wars is also very medieval he says. I pointed out that a) amidala was elected and b)there's still a queen in britain now. anything else i should add?

[DblDwn]

Tell him it's make believe and that it's supposed to be entertaining and not necessarily make complete sense. Tell him to relax and enjoy it for what it is intended to be. I can appreciate the questions that he asked, it shows that he was at least paying attention, but they are far too anal for the context with which the story is. Movies don't have to always challenge us. That's what books are for. Movies are for us to enjoy as a form of escapism from the monotony of our daily lives. With that in mind, the next time he asks look him square in the eye and ask him, "Who cares?" Then, after he says that he does, tell him DblDwn says to stop trying to overanalyze a sci-fi/fantasy film whose story is, at best, preposterous in terms of the real world but is a great way to take a break from life for a couple of hours.

That's my take on it anyway.

[AnaSkywalker]

well, it's of course also my take, i watch star wars and potc just to run away from the real world for a while, that's also why I read the books I read. However, he won't admit to liking a 'non intelligent' movie: a movie has to be able to be analyzed and discussed for it to be 'good'. of course, now that i've said that I realize that maybe I shouldn't have started this thread, but I just wanted to hear other peoples' answers to his questions.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I think there are many aspects of SW that could be classed as intelligent, whilst there are also many aspects which are jsut there to be enjoyed. I think part of the beauty of the Saga is that you can take from it as much or as little as you want, you don't have to delve into every detail to love it, but you may choose to do so, if that's what you want.

[AnaSkywalker]

plus you can also use the excuse that the OT is 'intelligent' because luke's journey is a hero's cycle. you know, that one you studied in school and applied to the odyssey?

[DblDwn]

I'm sorry AnaSky. I wasn't trying to make you doubt this thread. As I said, he is posing to you very good questions that should make you feel good in the fact that he is making an effort to not only watch something that you enjoy but that he is also paying attention to them. So many parents don't take the time anymore to do or watch something that the child enjoys. You should be extremely thankful that he clearly loves you enough to make the effort to not only watch but, more importantly, to understand.

[AnaSkywalker]

don't worry, it's not you that's making me doubt this thread.

as for watching movies with my dad, I dunno, but for some reason i prefer watching movies alone. Although it's still a good thing he made an effort, because the number of times i've mentioned something from my obsessions that my parents didn't get is uncountable.

[DblDwn]

How old are you buddy?

[AnaSkywalker]

15. why?

Oh, and I've figured out what he doesn't like about the movies: he thinks the whole idea of 'the force' is a bit 'obscurantist' (i actually had to look this word up in a russian-english dictionary because I had no idea how to translate it into english.

nice siggy, btw. and I like your avatar!

[DblDwn]

Thanks.

I was just curious. I assumed you were around 14-15. Just wanted to get a better perspective into who I was talking with.

[RollaFett]

Y'know, it's funny, my dad is a casual SW fan. Meaning that he's seen the films and liked them. Never was he in a hurry to see them again, but he did eventually get them on laserdisc back in the day.
Anyway, we saw TPM together in theaters and he wasn't terribly impressed. He thought the lightsaber battle at the end kicked ass, but the rest of the film was kinda lame.
Next, we saw AOTC in theaters and he really didn't seem to like it at all. Again, the special effects were cool, but that was about it.
Finally, we went to see ROTS. On our way to the theater he told me how he had rewatched TPM and AOTC, back to back, so he could go into ROTS up to date. He couldn't stop raving about those films. He suddenly understood what was going on with the politics and everything and just ate it up! Needless to say, he absolutely loved ROTS, and I think is a much bigger SW fan then he ever was before.
The reason I say all of this is because my dad kept an extremely open mind about the first two films and even watched them again to simply refresh his memory. Just by doing that, he gained an entirely new appreciation for them.
Will that happen with your dad? Doesn't seem so if he's questioning things like sliding doors, but as DblDwn said, at least he seemed interested. Next, he has to watch the OT. Maybe that'll be the answer.

[AnaSkywalker]

i'm planning on showing him ep. 2 first and then we can watch 4 and 5 and maybe 6.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Y'know, it's funny, my dad is a casual SW fan. Meaning that he's seen the films and liked them. Never was he in a hurry to see them again, but he did eventually get them on laserdisc back in the day.
Anyway, we saw TPM together in theaters and he wasn't terribly impressed. He thought the lightsaber battle at the end kicked ass, but the rest of the film was kinda lame.
Next, we saw AOTC in theaters and he really didn't seem to like it at all. Again, the special effects were cool, but that was about it.
Finally, we went to see ROTS. On our way to the theater he told me how he had rewatched TPM and AOTC, back to back, so he could go into ROTS up to date. He couldn't stop raving about those films. He suddenly understood what was going on with the politics and everything and just ate it up! Needless to say, he absolutely loved ROTS, and I think is a much bigger SW fan then he ever was before.
The reason I say all of this is because my dad kept an extremely open mind about the first two films and even watched them again to simply refresh his memory. Just by doing that, he gained an entirely new appreciation for them.
Will that happen with your dad? Doesn't seem so if he's questioning things like sliding doors, but as DblDwn said, at least he seemed interested. Next, he has to watch the OT. Maybe that'll be the answer.

That's a very valid point, it took me at least 4 watches of TPM (I forced myself to watch it the 2nd and 3rd time!) before I understood it and found it much easier to follow the whole political thing by watching the PT films back to back (over a few nights). I think there is a lot to take in initially in the PT so you can only appreciate the finer points after a while. Whereas any good effects/dialogue etc you tend to pick up more quickly.

[thepepgal]

Y'know, it's funny, my dad is a casual SW fan. Meaning that he's seen the films and liked them. Never was he in a hurry to see them again, but he did eventually get them on laserdisc back in the day.
Anyway, we saw TPM together in theaters and he wasn't terribly impressed. He thought the lightsaber battle at the end kicked ass, but the rest of the film was kinda lame.
Next, we saw AOTC in theaters and he really didn't seem to like it at all. Again, the special effects were cool, but that was about it.
Finally, we went to see ROTS. On our way to the theater he told me how he had rewatched TPM and AOTC, back to back, so he could go into ROTS up to date. He couldn't stop raving about those films. He suddenly understood what was going on with the politics and everything and just ate it up! Needless to say, he absolutely loved ROTS, and I think is a much bigger SW fan then he ever was before.
The reason I say all of this is because my dad kept an extremely open mind about the first two films and even watched them again to simply refresh his memory. Just by doing that, he gained an entirely new appreciation for them.
Will that happen with your dad? Doesn't seem so if he's questioning things like sliding doors, but as DblDwn said, at least he seemed interested. Next, he has to watch the OT. Maybe that'll be the answer.

Be warned, it doesn't always happen that your father will ever like SW. I am 39 and have loved SW since it came out in 1977. My mum took me as a kid as my father hates scifi.

He has seen 2.75 of the films because he believes you can't criticise something unless you have seen it. He liked how ROTS was shot but not the story itself. When he ask me to take to see it, I told him that he wouldn't be able to follow it without seeing AOTC. So to his credit he sat and watched 3/4 of it so he would recognise the characters. He wanted to walk out of ROTJ after 10 mins but stayed since I pleaded with him.

My father loves me and now accepts that it is my interest. He no longer criticises me like he use to, over my enjoyment of it. This acceptance did not happen until I was 29. He shows an interest and comments of the quality of the SW collection I have now collected. But I accept that he will never like it and I only discuss it with him when he brings it up.

The fact your father is showing an interest at this stage is very good. The fact he will sit and watch them with you is good. He questions it to ensure you are considering every aspect of the movie and that you are really interest.

I hope he does finally enjoy it. If not, his interest is to show he loves you.

[Baltar]

I"ve recently started showing my dad the Star Wars movies because, well, he hasn't seen the movies, but saw me watching part of episode 6 and started criticising it. So i've made him promise that he'll refrain from it until I can show him all the movies. I recently showed him episodes 1 and 3 and we have a 40 minute debate over dinner and kept going in a circle. So I'm going to ask for some help in answering his questions, because he won't accept my answers and keeps asking the same questions again.

so...

1)firstly, he says that the notion of good and evil in star wars is very medieval and that if this is futuristic why is it so anti progressive? "they fight with swords(lightsabers), just like in the middle ages", he says. I explained about the force, the jedi arts, etc...and he refused to listen.
2)if there are robots, why are slaves required, such as the ones on tatooine? my first answer was that tatooine is a poor place and therefore they have slaves instead of robots.
3)if they're slaves, how come they have good technology such as sliding doors and where did anakin get all the supplies to build his racing pod?
4)a harder question: what is the moral of SW and is there one?


Well your first mistake was showing him the prequels...these movies lack a coherent theme.

Alot of his criticisms are rather nitpicky/technical in nature. If you are going to sit there examining how 'realistic' the setting is, then of course you will be disappointed. Tell him that Star Wars is actually a very old kind of story wrapped in a sci-fi veil. The classic trilogy has all kinds of great themes, like coming of age and forgiveness. I'd suggest consulting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_and_religion_in_Star_Wars.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Well your first mistake was showing him the prequels...these movies lack a coherent theme.

Surely the coherent theme is power - Palpatine's plot to take over the galaxy, greed and evil. Taking each film individually, one may not be able to comprehend this larger theme, but certainly once you have watched the entire PT it becomes obvious. From the Jedi's point of view during the PT, I agree there is no coherent theme as they are for the mostpart chasing a shadow, until the last hour or so of ROTS.

[RollaFett]

Be warned, it doesn't always happen that your father will ever like SW. I am 39 and have loved SW since it came out in 1977. My mum took me as a kid as my father hates scifi.

He has seen 2.75 of the films because he believes you can't criticise something unless you have seen it. He liked how ROTS was shot but not the story itself. When he ask me to take to see it, I told him that he wouldn't be able to follow it without seeing AOTC. So to his credit he sat and watched 3/4 of it so he would recognise the characters. He wanted to walk out of ROTJ after 10 mins but stayed since I pleaded with him.

My father loves me and now accepts that it is my interest. He no longer criticises me like he use to, over my enjoyment of it. This acceptance did not happen until I was 29. He shows an interest and comments of the quality of the SW collection I have now collected. But I accept that he will never like it and I only discuss it with him when he brings it up.

The fact your father is showing an interest at this stage is very good. The fact he will sit and watch them with you is good. He questions it to ensure you are considering every aspect of the movie and that you are really interest.

I hope he does finally enjoy it. If not, his interest is to show he loves you.

Are you sure you wanted to quote me in your post? I thought I made it pretty clear that my dad wound up liking the prequels. In any case, I'm 32 years old, and frankly didn't really give a damn if he did or didn't. It's cool that he did, because we talk about movies all the time, so liking the same flicks is nice.

[thepepgal]

Are you sure you wanted to quote me in your post? I thought I made it pretty clear that my dad wound up liking the prequels. In any case, I'm 32 years old, and frankly didn't really give a damn if he did or didn't. It's cool that he did, because we talk about movies all the time, so liking the same flicks is nice.


Yes as I was pointing out to AnaSkywalker that it may not work out with his father liking SW. My post is the opposite to yours. I knew I would always love SW and know my father won't. I'm pleased yours did. I never sought my father's approval or liking for the films. AnaSkywalker is 15 and should not hold his breath waiting for something that may not ever happen.

This thread is to convince his father that it is good and he should be pleased that his father is willing to show an interest in the movies.

[AnaSkywalker]

i'm a her, not a him...

[DblDwn]

I didn't see that one coming.

[RollaFett]

Yes as I was pointing out to AnaSkywalker that it may not work out with his father liking SW. My post is the opposite to yours. I knew I would always love SW and know my father won't. I'm pleased yours did. I never sought my father's approval or liking for the films. AnaSkywalker is 15 and should not hold his breath waiting for something that may not ever happen.

This thread is to convince his father that it is good and he should be pleased that his father is willing to show an interest in the movies.

Alright. I misinterpreted your post. It seemed as though your post was in response to mine, and that didn't make sense to me. But now I see that you were merely using it as an an example for AnaSkywalker.
Understood, and moving on.

[thepepgal]

i'm a her, not a him...

Sorry AnaSkywalker. :blush:

[thepepgal]

Alright. I misinterpreted your post. It seemed as though your post was in response to mine, and that didn't make sense to me. But now I see that you were merely using it as an an example for AnaSkywalker.
Understood, and moving on.

That's ok RollaFett. I wanted AnaSkywalker to prepare herself for all possiblities.

[AnaSkywalker]

well, i did manage to get my dad to admit that star wars is 'good enough' and 'entertaining enough' although it has 'no deeper meaning'. i can live with that.

[thepepgal]

That's great to hear AnaSkywalker. :)

[RollaFett]

well, i did manage to get my dad to admit that star wars is 'good enough' and 'entertaining enough' although it has 'no deeper meaning'. i can live with that.

Don't let the 'deeper meaning' thing bug you. Hell, I'm sure you could find someone in the world who thinks the "Jackass" movies have some sort of deep meaning. If it means something to you, then that's all that should matter.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

^ Good point. I think part of the beauty of SW and why it has been so successful and so loved, is the fact that it works on so many levels. Some may just enjoy the action, some the concept, some the finer details and some potential 'deeper meaning'. As you say, as long as you enjoy it, that's all that matters.

[AnaSkywalker]

I've been reading a book that proposed that star wars tries to point us to the theory that we live in a simulation. kind of like the matrix. that's why there are so many scientific mistakes in a supposedly sci fi movie. Unless of course you argue that it's fantasy.

[RollaFett]

I wouldn't argue that it's not sci-fi, I will adamantedly claim it so!
It is fantasy, pure and simple.
There are no scientific mistakes because Lucas wasn't tryng to create a world where the technology needs explanation. A ship uses light speed because it's a faster way to travel and it looks cool, whether or not it's scientfically sound. I mean, when 3PO is explaining to Han what's wrong with Falcon in ESB, do you think that some actual mechanical dialogue was exchanged that made pratical sense to us? Nope.
Star Trek is sci-fi, Star Wars is not, period.