Things You Noticed in AOTC.

[Tovor]

I don't intend this discussion to be AOTC movie reviews, hence my reasoning for starting anew rather than putting my thoughts into the Official Review thread. *On the old forum we did a thread like this where we pointed out things in TPM which caught our eye and made us wonder, as well as for noting Easter eggs. *That's what this one is for. *What did you notice in AOTC in the foreground and background, dialogue and story, visual effects and set designs, which stood out and made you wonder about?

I'll start with a few of what I think were intentional Easter eggs in AOTC.
1- In the Kamino cloning facility as Obi-Wan toured the clone-training, equipping and formation area, the camera gave us a view looking up at the underside of a half (what was visible of it)-alongated circle structure, which I think looked a lot like the underside of the Star Trek Voyager starship's saucer section.
2-Also in the cloning facility, I noticed that from the side view of the helmeted clone troopers, the center top of their helmets (seen again later in the film but noticed first here) sticks out past the curve of the back of the helmet, like the tuft of feathers at the back of a bluejay's (the bird, not the ball player) head. *That part of the helmet struck me as familiar and at first I thought it was from the old Flash Gordon or Buck Roger's seriels. *Then I remembered it as the design of the helmet worn by Timothy Dalton in "The Rocketeer".


Other cool things I noticed:
A) I love the Republic gunship design. *I read that GL wanted something similar to the Huey helicopters used primarily during the Vietnam war, with open side doors and gunners at the sides. *But I noticed something else similar about the design of that craft. *I didn't notice it in the film but instead in my LEGO AOTC catalogue showing the top view of the gunship model, that from the top view, with the wings sticking out and the two engines where the wings join the body, that the shape and design as seen from above is very reminiscant of the rebel X-Wing fighter. *We didn't see X-wings or any wing fighters in the film, so perhaps this ship is what evolves into the X-Wing design in the next film.

B) The clone troopers were clones of the bounty hunter sent to murder Padme; and they later helped in saving her and then fought with her. *One even went to help her and showed concern after she fell from the gunship into the sand. *Ironic it is.

C) Clieg Lars looked far more like the old Owen Lars of the original movie, than the young Owen in this movie did.

D) The Lars use tombstones to mark the burial sites of their dead. *When Anakin went down to his knee and picked up the sand in his hand, I knew it was to show correlation between his pain then and how earlier he had said that he hated sand. But what made me take note was that I thought he was about to follow the Jewish tradition of picking up rocks and placing them on the tombstones of the departed.

E) Once again we see people losing their right arm due to agression or battle, not just Anakin but Sam Wessel. *I noticed that as soon as Obi-Wan had disarmed (literally) the intended assassin Wessel, he gently helped her up and guided her outside in a manner I percieved as compassion. *Very interesting. *It is as if once the enemy is rendered no longer a threat, the Jedi then take compassion and treat the defeated enemy as one in need of their help.

F) Jar Jar in the Senate chamber, making the motion to give Palpatine war powers. *No doubt the once banished Gungan enjoyed having so many senators agree with him, but I suspect more than that. *It seemed to me that Jar Jar may be more than an unwitting participant in Palpatine's grand plan, but rather a knowing and willing ally. *Hey, stranger things have happened.

G) We see the Jedi temple structure for the first time outside of production drawings, in whole rather than only the top section in TPM. *It apparently has an immense interior, but the triangle shape structure as shown from afar did not seem as high or wide as the production drawings I saw implied.

H) In Yoda's vision of the pain Anakin was going through during the time after his mother died and he went on the rampage against the Tuskens, you can hear the voice of Liam Neeson, Qui-Gon Jinn, yelling, "Anakin, no!"

I have several more observations and things that made me go "Hmmmmm...", but this is enough for now. *I'll add more later when I remember more of the film, but please feel free to contribute with things that got your attention and made you go "Hmmmmmm".

[Seanakin]

My only observation (and after one of Tovor's observations I'm almost reluctant to mention it) is that the initial scene of the Senator's ship being escorted on its way through the clouds to its landing platform on Coruscant looked eerily similar to the opening of "Triumph of the Will." *I hate dredging up comparisons to that film again, but the comparisons WERE there, I swear to God.

Besides, it wouldn't be Lucas' first visual homage paid to Leni Riefenstahl. *If I'm right, that is.

And that's all I want to say about that.

[Shoma Barad]

1. The Death Star Plans. That rocked.

2. New Zealand accents galore. That was pretty funny.

3. Jango's rocket pack was way more sleek than Boba's in Empire and Jedi.

4. In the rain fight, Obi Wan's lightsaber went walk about, as did Jango's pistols. We saw Jango get his guns and stuff, but Obi "magically" got his sword. I might have missed him picking it up, but i dont think he did.

Just a few things. The main thing for me was hearing Liam Neeson's voice during the meditation scene with Yoda. That was awesome.

~~Shoma

[padmehlc]

Well this isn't quite the same kind of observation as everyone else but I did notice how much the LANGUAGE and STYLE of writing affects things - seeing a SW movie in French just didn't work out nearly half as nicely - the familiar rhythm of the opening was off and clumsy "Il y a des années en un galaxie lointaine, trés lointaine..." A) doesn't sound right nor have the right rhythm, nor B)does it mean hte same thing litterally... Not to meantion the complete break in the normal rhythm of the opening scroll and Yoda talking well like a Normal Politician...

Though this did make me notice Williams cues so much better and they were AWESOME! The way he brought in the Imperial March just gave me chills!!!!!

[wicket]

I`ve now seen the film 3 times so I noticed a couple of things.

When Amidala and Anakin are leaving Coruscant for Naboo, Artoo is behind them about to go down some steps. *A split second later they are about ten feet further forward. *I guess Artoo going downstairs would look a little daft.

Anakin grabs his lightsabre by the light end. *In the droid factory on the conveyor belt he is fighting some fly-guys when he kind of stumbles and holds the lightsabre by both ends at the same time. *Ouch!

When Amidala is in the big pot at one point she is next to be melted but there are two shown filling up before Artoo saves her.

Anthony Daniels and Ahmed Best(I think) both have cameos just as Obi Wan strikes out at Zam Wessel in the bar.

If I can think of anything else, I`ll post again.

[Seanakin]

I was kinda wondering about a similar thing, Padme. *Particularly after seeing the movie and seeing where the Clones fit into the scheme of things. *True, they'll more than likely evolve into the Stormtroopers we all know and love, but if they were on the Republic's side, it's hard to think of them attacking per se. *More like defending themselves against the Separatists' attack, in which case the English title "Attack of the Clones" would still work.

However, the Norwegian version of the title "Klonene Angriper" literally means "The Clones Attack." *From a certain point of view, at least, that translation might have to be re-thought.

Of course, since the distribution is handled by a Swedish company, they don't bother with overdubbing, rather they just slap subtitles onto the original version and call it good.

[catwmnjedi]

Just a comment on Tov's comment about Obi-Wan's compassion toward Zam Wessel. That didn't surprise me, Tov. I can see that the Jedi would see bounty hunters in general as the ones hired to do the dirty work, not the evil masterminds behind the larger plot. The Jedi sometimes kill in their jobs too. Granted assassins choose a life of illegal and immoral activity, but Obi-Wan knew that Zam was trying to hurt them in self-defense so she could escape them, they weren't her target. This is a rather Christian attitude too... hate the sin, not the sinner.

Things I noticed... Padme's Nubian ship at the begining reminded me of the B2 Bomber, Bail Organa at the end pounding his fist on the stone balcony rail while the Chancellor and entourage were viewing the Clone Army. Shoma, I noticed Qui-Gon during the meditation scene too! The graves when they buried Shmi. There were three I think. I could see one of them being Clieg's first wife, but who's grave was the other one? Also, I believe that creature (Dex?) that Obi-Wan visited in the diner is actually in one of the Jedi Apprentice series book as an old friend of Qui-Gon's that Obi-Wan meets as a boy. I have to verify the name in the book, but he was a Coruscant diner owner.

I was taken by surprise when the clones actually fought for the Jedi. That's not what I expected....cool! And I didn't realize Anakin had already been interfacing with Palpy before AOTC... that was interesting too. I'm still wondering if Palpy is Anakin's true father. One thing that bugged me a little is that they didn't delve further into Ani and Obi's relationship. Anakin kept saying he thought of Obi-Wan like a father, but he didn't seem to act like it! I thought it was a tender moment when Obi-Wan asked about Anakin's trouble sleeping while on guard outside Padme's room at the beginning. We actually saw a softer side of Obi-Wan briefly. And I loved that Obi-Wan didn't give up on Anakin on the transport on Geonosis when he wanted to stop the ship to help Padme rather than chase Dooku. He found a way to get through to him still... but it's obviously going to get harder for him to do.

[Patrick]

The little thing that snagged my attention from the outset and which in retrospect really set the tone for a very bizarre (but fantastic!) movie was the fact that for the first time the camera panned UP to the action after the opening crawl! Of all the cool little things in AOTC, this is the one that seems to stick with me the most. The world turned upside down, eh? :wink:

[RedMirax]

I noticed that the clone troop transports will be the future Star Destoyers. I also noticed Anthony Daniels the second time around, but missed Ahmad the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd time.

When Yoda stopped that falling tower thing from falling on Obi and Anakin, his theme was played. Just like when he brought Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp on Dagobah!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[chrisakachris]

the fact that for the first time the camera panned UP to the action after the opening crawl! Of all the cool little things
in AOTC, this is the one that seems to stick with me the most.
Yes! That was INSANE!

[Pepper]

OK, well first off I thought AOTC was fantastic. *Anakin was portrayed better than I thought possible. *So much for my review, since this isn't a review thread.

Anyway, something I noticed by its ommission was that we didn't really see much at all of the Jedi Council in action, besides Windu and Yoda (which I thought was great! ). *I was a bit bummed about that, because I really thought, and was hoping, that we'd see Plo Koon in action. *Ever since I played that cool video game "Jedi Power Battles" I've been ever-so-eager to see Plo Koon in Episode II, complete with his Samurai/Jedi outfit and yellow saber. *True, we did *see* Koon and his lightsaber, but I didn't see him in action at all. *And to top it off, his saber was GREEN. *Just boring ol' green (if a lightsaber can actually be called "boring"...) *OK, it's a very very minor deal, but I was really hoping to see Koon as a real character, not just another fancy cardboard prop.
Rats.

The only other Council member I recall seeing was Ki-Adi-Mundi, though I don't remember seeing him really doing anything. *Kinda wanted to see Adi Gallia in action, though I'm still not too keen on the idea of women Jedi warriors. *(Not trying to start a hot debate or anything.) *Still, I liked how the "Power Battles" game portrayed the Jedi Councilors, and hence my curiosity with seeing her in action.

Something I noticed was that I didn't dislike Jimmy Smitts as Bail Oragana. *I'm not sure why I expected to dislike his portrayal because I don't dislike him as an actor, but I just could not picture him as Bail Organa. *Yet in AOTC, though we barely heard from him, I liked what I saw and heard. *He actually seemed to have some fire and independent thought to him, though again we saw very very little of that. *There were actually two times in AOTC when someone said "I have a bad feeling about this..." *One was when Anakin was tied to the post in the gladiator arena, and the second was when Organa pounded his fist during the review of the clone troops at the end of the movie. *True, he didn't actually *say* it but it's obvious he was thinking it.

Another not-so-insignificant noticable is Palpatine's comment about a "thousand year old Republic". *Wrong, ese. *That's either a mistake, or is meant to lead to something as yet unrevealed. *Still, if it's not a mistake in dialogue, then it has to be true because the Jedi he was talking to took no issue with it. *Yet we KNOW it's not true. *Everybody knows that it's supposed to be "a thousand generations". *Isn't that even what Ol' Ben himself actually said in ANH, "for a thousand generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic"? *(And really, a thousand years isn't all that "Old" in the galactic scale of things. *It should then be called "The Republic That's Been Around A While". *But then I guess "for a lot of generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in The Republic That'd Been Around A While" just doesn't quite roll of the tongue.) *This little bit of dialogue is somewhat unsettling to a true, long-time SW fan, is it not? *What's going on here?? *Makes no sense, man.

[Teek]

Hey, I don't have a chance to see ANH. Can anyone check it out to see at the beginning when Luke is walking around, if there are three square wooden things sticking out of the ground anywhere? Could GL have thought to use those in Ep. II as the grave markers for Shmi and whoever else the other two graves belong to?

[auntberu]

For those of you who see AOTC more than once or twice (and I'm sure you all will) - check out the battle with the droids at the end. *Only instead of watching the foreground, watch the background.

You'll see some great shots including a single jedi taking on multiple droids, as well as at least two different shots of a jedi brandishing two sabers at once. *I think I also saw a female jedi get shot by one of the droids.

Lastly, is it just me or were there far fewer "easter eggs" in this one as compared to TPM?

[Senator Theant]

Among my observations:

1. Obi Wan, upon entering the night club in Coruscant, comments to Anakin: "You'll be the death of me." This, of course, is fulfilled in ANH. Eerie, isnt it?

2. During Anakin;'s inspection of the clones, we are treated to a shot of the mess hall as the troops stuff their face with who knows what. The guy we see eating looks strangely similar to Padme's chief of security, Typho. What is up with that? Is he just supposed to follow the Senator's movements possibly for Palpatine?

3. Statement: After Anakin and Obi Wan are dropped off in order to chase Dooku, the Gunship that dropped them off explodes into flames. I thought that really sucked, it just serves to show that these clone pilots are more loyal than anything. Did anybody think that too?

4. It seemed as though every time we saw a Clone Trooper, it was all CG. I liked it better when Lucas employed Marines to dress up as Stormtroopers in the burning sun. Couldnt he have done this again?

5. No mention of Yaddle, good and bad. I really wanted to hear another Yoda talking, possibly holding a conversation (that would have been hilarious). But then again, Yoda is Yoda and nobody can imitate the real thing.

6. Little unclear about something: did we see Artoo and Threepio board a ship and escape from Geonosis? It doesnt really matter, I was just wonderin.

Thats all for now.

[Tovor]

Aunty B, I have been looking at foreground and background four times now. *I must be the ultimate geek cause I saw AOTC first at 12:15 am Thursday morn, got to sleep around 4am, went back at 3pm and saw it 2 more times, and Friday late after work I caught the 10:30pm show, and then the last 15 minutes of the 10:45 show. *

Earlier I mentioned the oval shaped structure seen from below in the Kamino facility that looks too much to be coincidence like the Star Trek ship Voyager. *That view came just as Lama Su told Obi-Wan that the template for the clones was the bounty hunter Jango Fett.

Okay, some more observations:
Those swollen tick/cow/pig-like animals in the field on Naboo, one of which Anakin rode, man have you ever seen such huge asses on animals before? *They were nearly all buttocks!

GL had gone so far during the ANH filming to keep everything non-sexual, that he had Carrie's nipples taped down under her white garment. *Well according to the other men in the theatre this time around (I don't know myself because I don't look at those kind of displays other than my own woman), on Padme's ship when they got the message from Obi-Wan, GL must have forgotten to bring the bandaids for the filming of Padme in her white garment. I didn't look for myself, of course, I'm only relating what I overheard from others.

I don't think spoilers of the Yoda/Dooku battle have reached the casual movie viewers yet, but in the hangar when Dooku turns to see the shadow of Yoda, the crowds in each viewing I attended went wild with excitement, as if even without spoilers they knew whatever was about to happen would be the ultimate duel.

I saw AOTC 4 times, and 4 times I went WOW! when Yoda reached for his lightsaber. *He did not take it from his belt in the grip of *his hand, no, it FLEW from his belt into his hand!

I have a gripe. *The gunships had side gunners and a rear mounted gun, and gun pods on the top as well I think. *So why was the gunship pounded by Dooku's fighters without ever firing back?

Another gripe. *Anakin told the clone pilot to destroy Dooku, and the pilot replied that they were out of rockets. *Well duh, it's a gunship...it had laser guns too, not only rockets. *The gunships did a hell of a job strafing the battledroids in the arena, why weren't they used to shoot down Dooku's speeder?

It was obvious how much Obi-Wan chastised and criticized Anakin throughout the movie, and how much that bothered him. *So when Anakin told the pilot how to destroy the enemy tower or ship or whatever it was, did anyone notice the look of hurt and dissappointment on his face when his Master called him "young apprentice" again?

Yoda seemed a natural commanding soldiers into battle, and the clones followed his orders with utmost respect. *However, when the clone trooper told him that the enemy was in retreat, did you see the sudden look of concern and regret on Yoda's face?

Sideous' tower far beyond the edge of the section of skyscrapers, was a sight to behold. *Some sections of it appeared uncompleted, with girders and levels visible. *This isn't much of a big observation, but I think its of interest that Palpatine has his Chancellor's dwelling in the midst of the spires, and his secret escape for conducting Sith-doings far seperate from the busy city area.

Anakin was angry, unfriendly, and indifferent toward the Lars family when first arriving and at the table, as well as when he returned with his dead mother (I feel that even more than his pain at losing her, he blamed them to some degree, maybe for not doing more to find her when there was still time). *Yet when he left Padme to find Shmi, he told her to stay with the Lars, and that they were good people. *I take note that he saw that in them, despite his disinterest toward them.

I wonder why Obi-Wan did not use the mind trick on Jango when he questioned him in his apartment.

Last for now...I don't know if its told in the novel, But I am curious to know how Clieg Lars lost his leg. *Was it during the search for Shmi when his group was attacked by the Tuskens, or in an unrelated incident? *I also wonder why they stole Shmi in the first place and why they tortured her for so long; and for that matter, why they let her live so long. *I had gotten the impression from the ANH novel that Sandpeople didn't take prisoners but merely killed those they came across.

[Shoma Barad]

Im going to see it for the second time tonight, so hopefully I'll pick up some more stuff to share...

But did you see Kit Fisto's smile during the arena battle?? Man, that guy's grin is FREAKY!!!

Also, when the duel stops as the Jedi are surrounded, Obi-Wan is kneeling down, checking the pulse of a fallen jedi (well, a Jedi who has been killed, anyway... fallen can have so many different meanings when talking about these films... lol) I thought that was cool- Obi-Wan, checking on his comrades...

And also, the lightsabers that get thrown to Anakin and Obi-Wan when the Jedi arrive... they are completely different to the Sabers we see them with in the rest of the film... i thought it was a good move by Lucas to do that... explained how they got Sabers to fight with, but didn't do anything stupid, like saying "Well, Mace went to their quarters and picked up their spares before he led the Jedi to Geonosis..." Finally, some good, subtle justification from the God of the Star Wars universe!

Oh, and C-3PO calling Anakin "The Maker"... he cracked me up...

And that line... "DIE, JEDI DOGS! Oh, why did I say that?!" hehehe... awesome.

Bail Organa... I expect big things from this character in EIII... Jimmy SMits did a great Job... his non-verbals were some of the best in the saga (after Darth Mauls, of course!!!)

~~Shoma

[Seanakin]

That "pulse-checking" thing that Obi-Wan did...it looked to me like he was administering some Jedi version of Last Rites to a fallen knight.

What I find interesting is it seems Anakin did that same exact thing to his mother immediately after she dies.

And if memory serves, didn't Qui-Gon do that sort of thing to Obi-Wan right before HE died?

Also, I'll concur with Tovor's observation that the moment Yoda starts to hobble into the hangar, the crowd around me in the theater went nuts. *Then, the moment he started packing heat, they turned it up a couple of notches. *Talk about giving 'em what they want. :biggrin:

[The Doctor]

Damn! I just got back from seeing it for the first time, and it was THAT good...... damn......
I think just about everything has been said, but I thought I would add a couple of obvious ones: The shot of c3p0 and R2 at the very end, exactly like the medal ceremony in ANH, I think anyway...... Very nice.
That and the obvious 'I'll never join you' thing between Dooku and Obi reminiscent of Vader/Luke.

As I said, obvious but they were cool so I had to say them somewhere......

Oh, just remembered: Did Yoda's little martial arts style stance make anyone else think of the Matrix?

[DanielSkywalker]

First off, I would just like to say that AOTC was friggin' awesome. I saw one of the midnight showings and i was not dissapointed at all. Everybody went nuts when Yoda duled with Dooku; it is definitely one of my favourite Star Wars moments of all time. Well, this is in response to Tovor's comment about the Tusken Raiders and why they kept Shmi for so long, and also why they tortured her. I'm sure this has crossed the minds of many a fan over the past few days. I might be totally off base here, but what if Sidious somehow staged that whole thing? What if he payed or bribed the sand people into taking and ultimately killing Anakin's mother? We all know that he is planning on turning Anakin to the dark side, so maybe this was just the begginning of his dark plot to bring Anakin to hate, fear, and aggression. What do you guys think?

[NelsonCoressel]

Teek... There are no grave markers on the Lars homestead in ANH. *I wonder if that's something Lucas is reported to have shot to insert into ANH later.

Someone mentioned that they didn't see Obi-Wan conjure his lightsaber just before he threw the tracking device at Jango's ship. *Actually he did, it's just really fast. *We see him catch it, we just don't see it fly across the screen like other times.

Some things I noticed: *The panning and zooming during the major clone battle was very much like some scenes from Platoon, Full Metal Jacket or Apocalypse Now. *So it's like we've gone from the Revolutionary War (Battle Droids marching in formation and firing at Gungans) to Vietnam. Then of course we go back to WW2 with the Episode 4 dog fights. *Cool stuff.

One thing that concerns me about the CGI Yoda is that he looks SO good that he practically upstages his appearance in TPM. *I watched the DVD of TPM just before going to see AOTC the first time, and Yoda looks, well, like a puppet in TPM. *In AOTC, his lips are more articulated and his skin has more movement and texture. *I wonder if ILM should have "dumbed down" the CGI Yoda even more, or if they will go back and at least partially digitize the TPM Yoda. *I have no problem with the fact that Yoda is a little more stiff and slightly less animated in ESB and ROTJ, since he's much older and about to die anyway.

And finally...
...according to the other men in the theatre this time around (I don't know myself because I don't look at those kind of displays other than my own woman), on Padme's ship when they got the message from Obi-Wan, GL must have forgotten to bring the bandaids for the filming of Padme in her white garment...
Yep. She got nips. *Just cuz you're on a diet doesn't mean you can't look at the menu! *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[stormclad]

i'm not sure why no one else has posted this [maybe because it was blatantly obvious] but when anakin and padme are on tatooine and they exit the sand igloo of the homestead, you can see anakin's shadow on the wall of the igloo and it's darth vader's shadow.

i noticed qui gon jinn's voice too. i've only seen AOTC once, at the midnight opening. and i wasn't 100% sure of myself until i read these posts. i will assume qui gon will be popping up in episode 3. i have a funny suspicion qui was still in contact with dooku in TPM, this could explain why his body didn't disappear and he hasn't shown up as a ghost. qui was known for defying the counsel. i think yoda even said something in TPM about sensing qui gon's defiance in obi wan.

when obi wan went to kamino and taun we said they had been expecting him and were wondering if he would ever show up, for a second i thought my suspicions about him were true. before episode 1 came out, i had heard that obi wan was a clone himself, which would in some way explain his odd name--obi wan--OB1, like a serial number. but that might just be some mad fanboy rumors.

seeing boba fett as a kid has made him a little less threatening, especially since his name, boba, may be a goofy child-reference name. like "baby boo" or something.

the kamino fight scene: obi wan does use the force to retrieve his light saber.

also, i'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this or if again it was blatantly obvious, there is a cameo of sebulba and one of the other podracers in the zem wessel speeder chase scene.

was it just me, or did ol' pappy lucas make sure his daughter (as a twi'lek) really stand out in the bar scene?

i like the fact that when anakin does the 2 lightsaber deal, that one is blue and one is green. luke also used a blue, then a green light saber, as well as lost an appendage.

why didn't obi wan use a jedi mind trick on jango? mind tricks only work on the weak minded.

i also liked how obi wan used the asteroid to hide from jango, like han does on the star destroyer.

i liked the whole lineage aspect: yoda trained dooku, dooku train qui gon, qui gon trained obi wan, obi wan trained anakin.

i thought the billboards during the wessel chase scene were funny too, with the aliens doing the thumbs up, selling useless goods to mindless consumers, much like our own earth.

i thought the whole 'jedi are not as powerful as we think they are' aspect was good. some of us hardcore fans think the jedi can do just about anything, and the sad truth is that they have limitations too.

end transmission.

[Teta]

Just came from my first screening--I wil post a review later (after I get out of my 2nd one, haha.) I don't even have time to reply to above, I haven't scanned the thread. But here are a few questions floating around my head:

1)Why did the Sandpeople even keep Shmi alive at all? They try to kill Luke automatically on sight. (It is now clear that their hatred of humans--and the reason why the Jundland wastes are so dangerous--is b/c they want to kill Humans to avenge the massacre.) But what profit would they get by keeping her alive? I can see them trying to use her a hostage or trying to trade her back to her people if she was someone rich or important--if holding for ransom was a Sandpeople custom before; but she is only a poor farmer. And Watto would certainly have her killed if he had ordered her capture. If Watto had ordered it, how could he be sure that the Sandpeople would fork over the ransom money to him, or keep it for themselves? Did Watto think he could fight off a village of Sandpeople? Who are his troops?

2) Ani and Ami marry in secret. What is going to be the reaction of the Council to this--b/c he as a Jedi and she as a Senator will both have to return to Coruscant. How can they keep the relationship up? If they are married for 2 yrs.

3)Palpy tries to ramove Ami both as a distraction to Anakin, his future apprentice, and as a pesky pro-Republic Senator. (I was SO happy to see her fight! And it looks like skill with the chain as a weapon is passed down in the family:).

4)If Dooku is Qui-Gon's Master, how did Palpy corrupt him, and get him to foment the rebellion? How did they find out about Geonosis at all? And why would an ocean planet be so capable of cloning facilities? And even larger question: Did Qui-Gon inherit his "seperatist" tendencies regarding the "living" Force from Dooku, (his contrariness), does that make him less nobleof a character? B/c If Dooku's independence rubbed off on him, than Qui_Gon could just as easily have been corrupted--had he lived. Palpy has clearly been giving Dooku Sith training...on the other hand, it is Dooku's powers that may have caused a break between them. When did Dooku become corrupted? If it was while Qui-Gon was his Padawan, then all sorts of intruiging possibilites come up. Qui_Gon may have reabeled against his MAster...and the Council, for once, would have approved.

And BTW, Dooku WILL be in the next film. An Article I found on a LOTR site said that Lee would be filming EP 3 with GL in Australia soon.


Let me say one thing: THANK GOD FOR HAYDEN. His performance was powerful, quite moving. It was really wonderful to watch an actor who really tried to be worthy of his character--and it looks like Hayden fell in love with his. He really cared.

[Kafer]

Okay, maybe not observations, but things I picked out.

When Anakin's lightsaber gets busted and he says, "Obi-Wan is going to kill me." *Did anyone else flash back to the cut scene from TPM with Qui-Gon chastising Obi-Wan for blowing out the power cell on his saber, again.

Was it me, or is Dooku's light saber handle more ergonomically shaped?

Dex is a character from the Jedi apprentice books. *(Thanks Cat. *That one was driving me nuts.)

I was glad Qui-Gon was mentioned in the movie, even though his "loyalty" is even more questionable now.

I wish they would have actually introduced Bail Organa. *For the casual SW viewer, they'll have no idea who he was.

I'm glad we got to see Obi-Wan's sense of humor and a bit of recklesness.

Typical teenager Anakin, breaks his master's orders to go to Tattoine, but when Obi-Wan is in danger and Mace tells him to stay put, he opts to follow those orders.

The Vader-esque shadow on the Lars' homestead wall. *So, Owen is an "uncle" in a roundabout way afer all.

Anyone else think that Obi knew Anakin was getting married at the end? *On my one viewing, I got the feeling he was going to say more when he did the, "He's escorting Senator Amidala back to Naboo...." *I felt he wanted to say more, but opted not to. *Maybe he knew but didn't want to bring it up knowing it would only land Anakin in more trouble. *

Loved seeing Mace in action. *Don't piss this guy off.

And, last but not least, unlike TPM, Anakin's Padawan braid stayed on the correct side of his head.

And on a total side note. *The crowd was great. *Sat next to a lady dressed up as Leia. *We were cheering for the previews. *I contained myself until Mace took off Jango's head. *A very loud, "Yah!" escaped from me followed by almost everyone in the theater. *And all the laughter at 3PO during the battle. *Damn funny stuff. *

Okay, I'll stop now. *I'll see it again, and see what else I can remember.

[Teta]

PS reading the replies breifly--Tovor, I thought at first Anakin was going to place the rockon Shmi's grave too. But maybe GL was worried that this was too explicit a reference to the ending of Schindler's List, a scene he figured most ppl would remember. And of course the future Hitler of the Sw galaxy doing an OScar Schindler gesture--the irony would be too horrible to comtemplate. Not to mention that Liam Neeson , Qui-Gon, placed the stone on the real-life grave.

Also, speking of irony, was it me or did LOTR come up in ppl's minds during the whole droid factory scene? You know of Tolkinens hatred of machines. Nothing is so spiritually depressing, si mind and soul numbing, as that machine factory. FOr all the action, it was a VERY oppressive sequence, and spoke of Paly's future iron rule better than anything. The sheer scale of the place, the sheer deadening weight of it all. Horrible irony to see Anakin, the builder and lover of machines, getting lost and entangled like a gnat and almost mashed in a colassal machine. Then he has to be trapped in one. (the suit.) I wonder what went through his mind after that escape. What he thought about machines--how his mindset may have changed. Had to change him. Did he perversely find it easier to be the Hitler of the galaxy if he thought that wiping out rebellious systems was nmothing harder than squashing them like a plate of steel beneath a giant stamper in a droid factory?

Anakin the child building machines (droids, ships, etc) going into a REAL place where SERIOUS machines are built. He's an individual, spending years putting his own personal handcrafted touch on Threepio, etc. (the Old Republic method)Versus a factory where you instantly spitting out thousands of souless impersonal replicas.(His future rule.) You have to wonder at the genius of this scene. Both Anakin AND the machines grow up.
I wonder if this is Lucas commenting on the state of the 21st century way of doing things. SOmehow, he managed to comment on the depersonalization of technology, in a way Tolkine would have admired. I didn't think he had the genius to come up with such a powerful illustration.

[RedMirax]

Tovor, Cleigg did lose his leg looking for Shmi. I got that implication in the movie and it says so in the book.

[auntberu]

Tovor, regarding the whole Natalie-nipple thing: At the midnight showing on opening day, I heard about 20 guys start whistling (and yelling other unrepeatable things) when they noticed. *And I must admit that I noticed, too.

Stormclad, are you sure about the Vader shadow on Tatooine? *I watched the shadows pretty closely and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.

Kafer, yeah, I definitely thought that Dooku's lightsaber handle was shaped differently.

Episode III will sure be interesting. *We will have the obvious Anakin/Obi-Wan duel, but I bet we'll also have to see fitting deaths for both Mace Windu and Count Dooku. *Who will do the honors? *Will Anakin do both?

[Seanakin]

<span style='color:2679ef'>Teta, I gotta disagree about Anakin turning into the galactic Hitler. *Just from watching Episode IV it's clear that it may more well be that he'll become the galactic Heinrich Himmler. *(With a touch of Bormann and Goebbels thrown in.) Which is bad enough in its own right.

I guess this makes Tarkin the galactic Göring.

And I'll shut up now. *This is what happens when your father is an enthusastic student of history. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif </span>

[Tovor]

My only observation (and after one of Tovor's observations I'm almost reluctant to mention it)

Which of my observations brought up your reluctance? I don't remember writing one that involved the scene you mentioned.

[Tovor]

Kafer and Beru, check out the AOTC movie Scrapbook, or the Dooku action figure. His saber handle is curved (like a banana but with a sharper angled curve) to accomodate his hand and wrist movements during dueling.

[Seanakin]

<span style='color:2679ef'>None related to that opening sequence, actually. *It's just that I saw you compare the burial scene to something out of Jewish tradition and I didn't want to follow that by just barging in and making a comparison to one of the most infamous pieces of Nazi propaganda.

I dunno, I guess I didn't want it to look distasteful. *Kinda in the same way Lucas wanted the scene where the Rancor gulps down the Gammorean Guard to be done tastefully. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif </span>

[Teek]

One thing I noticed, was when the Naboo fighters were first landing on Coruscant, they looked dirty. I don't know if that's just the smoggy wet clouds putting that on the craft or what, but I thought that was an interesting indicator of how the pristine shinyness of Ep. I was beginning to fall away to the dark grittier look of the OT.

Also, maybe it was just me, but I really liked the way the camera moved during the scene where Jar Jar motions for the war powers for Palpatine. How it zooms past Yoda and Mace down into the chamber, then back out later past Yoda and Mace as he says something like, "So, it is done."

I also liked the way the camera does the reveal of Mace's feet as he first strolls up behind Dooku and company on Geonosis.

I also thought it was laugh out loud funny how Nute Gunray kept wanting for Padme to be killed after his defeat by her in TPM. It was also nice to see the Nemoidians mouths in sync for once! Heheh.

In the credits it mentions Even Piell (the short pink one eyed Jedi from TPM) and Lot Dodd (The Federation Senator from TPM). Did anyone see those guys in the film at all? Perhaps they were cut out?

Also notice how Yareal Poof (The long necked freaky Jedi from Ep. I) was not on the Council anymore? Perhaps he was removed to avoid confusion with the Kaminoans, making the audience ask why he is on the Council but not know anything about the cloners.

The Kaminoans rocked, I loved the shots of the fetuses in the jars and all the clones training. It was cool to see them all practice fighting way back down in the background.

[Teek]

One more thing, I loved the Tusken's animal pets that were fighting over the bone, they looked cool.

[Teek]

Three others things I thought were cool, after Zam shoots the droid Obi-Wan is hanging from she places the gun on her ship and it gets sucked down into it. I thought that was cool.

Also during the final battle, there's a shot of a SuperBattledroid knocking a normal BD out of the way so it can continue firing a the Jedi. I thought it was neat to see its' determination go so far as hitting other lesser droids out of the way so it could get in on the action.

I also love the absence of sound right before the Slave I's detonation charges go off in the asteroid field... You hear the blasts and sounds, then silence, then BOOM!

[RedMirax]

<span style='color:283d8b'>I liked the seismic explosions, too. The complete silence, then......BOOM was AWESOME!!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif</span>

[NelsonCoressel]

Yeah, the seismic charges were the first time I know of that we actually heard silence in space in a Star Wars movie!

Speaking of firsts... Shmi died with her eyes open... a first for a human Star Wars character.

[Meche]

Exactly, the charges were very realistic. Like lightning. First silence, then the sound. Sound travels slower than light. Man, that silence was deafening, great effect there.

The Tusken's pets were cool, like doggies.

What I found interested was the "Empire Strikes Back" music being played as Yoda lifted the heavy objects (man... forgot what they were exactly) and keeping them from falling onto Obi-Wan and Ani. Kinda reminded me that he'll lift an X-wing later.

[THX1138]

Hi All!
First off, I am but a Padawan learner, having just visited and registered for this forum tonight, so forgive me if I repeat what others have said...

I was immediately surprised when the camera tilted upwards following the opening scroll - setting us up for the surprises to follow?
I managed to avoid any real spoilers, so I didn't expect to see Anthony Daniels, although I didn't spot Ahmed Best. Vader's shadow was a nice touch. Two of my friends noticed that independently, so yes, it is there (none of us had seen any spoilers). Does anyone know if Rick MacCallum & co managed to sneek themselves in again?

There are a couple of points I haven't seen mentioned, so forgive me if I missed them: 1) I thought it was an interesting foretelling of the immediate future when Anakin found his arm encased in metal on the conveyor belt. I didn't expect him to lose his arm this early in his life though. I figured it would be during his battle with Obi-Wan.
2) Although I will have to watch the film again to be sure, I think that during Anakin's battle with Dooku there was a significance in the close-ups of their faces. The evil characters in the movies (Vader, Maul, Dooku) have had red lightsaber blades. As the lightsabers were flashing in front of their faces I believe the red glow became more prolific than the blue of Anakin's, providing a subtle sign of his continuing slide towards the dark side.

While none of us ever expect a Star Wars film to win an Oscar for its script, I was annoyed to find yet another review programme here in Britain dredging up the old Harrison Ford comment on the quality of the writing - change the record! On the same programme a reviwer tried to prove the film was a dramatisation of the Bush administration. Say what?
My only real dissatisfaction arises from the apparent lack of quality of the CGI and matte paintings. I wonder if that is a result of using digital, losing the graininess of film to "hide the joins". But hey, the experience was so good, I can forgive that.

Finally, an entry in the crazy but true files. Even after 4 films, one of my friend's friends still doesn't believe that Palpatine and the Emperor are one and the same. Go figure!

[Tovor]

Seanakin:
I saw you compare the burial scene to something out of Jewish tradition and I didn't want to follow that by just barging in and making a comparison to one of the most infamous pieces of Nazi propaganda.
I dunno, I guess I didn't want it to look distasteful. *Kinda in the same way Lucas wanted the scene where the Rancor gulps down the Gammorean Guard to be done tastefully.
Not to worry, Sean. *Palpatine's rise to power and his eventual regime has been compared to Hitler's many times already on the old boards, by myself expecially. *In fact, now that I think of it, if GL wanted us to think of the Jewish symbolism I suggested, and symbolically crafted the empire after the Nazi's, wouldn't it be even more ironic and tragic when Anakin joins Palpatine?
Concerning your second statement, if he wanted the Rancor gulping the Gammorean to be tasteful, he should have made the Gammorean appear more succulant and juicy and filled with creamy goodness, to appeal to the viewer's tastebuds as well. *As it was, they didn't look any more tasteful to me than cow tongue. *???

Count Dooku during the arena battle always appeared calm and sure of the outcome. "Don't worry, Viceroy, she will die." *So much so that even with Mace holding his saber across Jango's neck he still remained confident. *After that, the appearance of assuredness draining from his face when Mace beheaded Jango on the arena grounds made me wonder how vital Jango was to his plan and personal sense of security.

[Teek]

I noticed that too Tovor, Dooku seemed to hesitate when he saw Jango lose his head. With Jango gone it seems like they'll need a new base for the clones.

[Meche]

I was a little weirded out when Boba Fett picked up Jango's head. Who else expected the head to fall out?

[Tovor]

With Jango gone it seems like they'll need a new base for the clones.

That would explain why the stormtroopers of the second trilogy were so inept they couldn't shoot the side of a barn using a Kaminoan's neck for a slingshot. *The ability to aim a gun wasn't a skill inherant in the DNA of the host they found after Jango.

But seriously, although Dooku was overconfident as any Sith Lord could be, he was surrounded by businessmen, brainless droids, and cowardly TF members. *Jango was perhaps the only one of the crowd that he respected and trusted to carry out his orders properly. *Though he was a mercenary and not an apprentice or partner, Jango was partly to Dooku what Maul was to Sideous, IMHO. *Dooku proved he could handle himself against 2 Jedi and a Jedi Councel leader, but he preferred to use Fett to do his dirty work rather than getting his own hands dirty. *I'm going to stop my assessment of Dooku and his plans here, in favor of discussing it in more length in a thread of its own. *

But Teek, just as GL said the 1st trilogy would change the way we see the 2nd, I am now thinking a lot about the Kaminoan clone facilities and the Geonosian war planners and their role in the original trilogy's time frame. *GL was of course limited by budget and sfx abilities in the original, and much of what we saw in AOTC more than likely wasn't part of his original 1973(?) outline when he filmed ANH, but unless Episode III gives us a rational explanation I don't think we can watch the original trilogy without wondering why the Death Star meeting room didn't include Geonosians. *I am sure that after 2005 when Episode III is completed there will be EU novels to explain things more regarding the events between III and IV, but as far as the movies people will wonder if the rebel alliance ever considered targetting the stormtrooper-growing Kamino facitilies, and if not why not?

[Tovor]

Meche, I thought about that too.


Another observation on the Kaminoans. Very graceful, gentle, and peacefull in appearance. Hard to imagine that they not only harvested the clone soldiers but also trained them for battle. Makes me wonder if there is more to them them than meets the eye.

[RedMirax]

I was expecting that, too, Meche...

[Seanakin]

Who else expected the head to fall out?
I DID! I DID! I DID!

Or at least a drop or two of blood...oh, right. *Lightsabers. *Never mind.

Cool, Tov. *I know the historical comparisons have been made for seemingly ever. *I'm just surprised that anyone would pay homage to "Triumph" anymore. *Assuming that was their intent.

As for the meeting room question, I think the Emperor's gonna do some kind of housecleaning of his own before it's all over.

[Tovor]

As for the meeting room question, I think the Emperor's gonna do some kind of housecleaning of his own before it's all over.


Good point, Sean, I thought that too. We didn't see any of the beings in ROTJ who stood with Palpatine on the balcony at the end, so something will have had to happen to them too. Aside from Bail, I mean, who's fate we all know.

Okay, more observations:
When Padme's ship was bombed, how did it happen? *Zam told Jango "I hit the ship but they used a decoy." So I wonder if a bomb was pre-planted on the landing platform, or if the ship was hit by a missile or laser-fire.

Immediately after the explosion you saw a far shot of the burning and crumbling vessel, with debris still flying away from it. *Also visible if you look closely to the debris tumbling over the sides of the platform, were human crewmembers falling over as well.

I wish GL had not changed the line-up of handmaidens. Not that I wanted her to die, but I would have liked the drama more if the decoy killed in the blast had been Sabe, the decoy who appeared as the queen in TPM.

In Padme's ship on Tatooine, when Obi-Wan told Anakin to boost his message toward Coruscant, Padme pushed a button to begin the procedure. *Afterwards when she turned on the star chart to locate Geonosis, she did so by pushing the very same button. *How does the same button when not in conjunction with any other action, perform two different tasks?

When Padme and Anakin encountered 3PO, he was working on some piece of equipment. *A vaporator, perhaps? "My first job was programming binary load lifters, very similar to your vaporators in most respects."

The more I think of it, 3PO's lack of knowledge of the planet he was on and the home he was inside in ANH, seems more like a well-executed ploy to gain Luke's trust and entice his interest in the droid's mission there. *Nah, 3PO wasn't that smart.

I began this thread in part to include Easter eggs spotted in AOTC, but I saw that Vader started his own official Easter egg thread. *You can't argue with Vader, whether it be Lord Vader or the owner of the site, so I'll list the following egg here and in his thread too:
At Shmi's funeral, when R2 left the ship to join the group, 3PO told Anakin, "He says he is carrying a message from an Obi-Wan Kenobi."



And last words: Does anyone remember a month or so ago in the original Jedinet CRAP thread when I said that I was looking at production drawings and got an unexpected spoiler of the last shot in the movie, something I had wished would have been a surprise? Although not the very last shot, the scene I stumbled upon was the depiction of Palpatine on the balcony looking out over his massed troops. And I also wrote on a different day that I came across a pic showing a scene that I expected in the third film but not in the second, and that was the shot of Anakin lying on the floor after losing his arm.
And, remember in the Obsessor's thread a week ago when I wrote that Hayden was on Jay Leno and I didn't expect a major spoiler to be revealed "right on Leno's freaking desk, thanks a lot Jay"? The spoiler was this, Leno was showing the Anakin action figure and commented on how the arm simply fell off when he hit the desk with the figure, and then repeated the action about 3 times.

Okay, (I guess you could say I enjoy discussing AOTC!) here is another observation:
I don't know if it was the light from the sunset or what, but Anakin's replacement arm at the end of the film looked more like 3PO's arm than the realistic type of appendage Luke was given in TESB.

[Nathan Butler]

Kafer: "Dex is a character from the Jedi apprentice books." Other way around. It was an instance of an AOTC character being given to an author to use in a book prior to release.

Teek: (Re: Yarael's being missing.) Just for the record, once that was decided, LFL allowed the reason for his loss to be covered in the Zam Wesell comic one-shot.

A couple of other observations:

1.) Someone already mentioned the loyalty of the Clonetroopers in the ship that deposits Anakin and Obi-Wan for the final battle with Dooku. Did anyone else notice that one of the Clonetroopers actually makes it out of the craft, only to be sniped by Dooku's backup and to fall off the platform?

2.) If I recall correctly, as much as we get an eye-feast of Padme's "nips" (in more than one scene, by the way--yeah, I paid attention the second time around after someone mentioned it), we never actually get to see how she goes from a full bodysuit in the beginning of the Geonosis battle to one with a torn sleeve and lost lower-half just a few seconds later. We see her get slashed, and that's one of the first shots we see of her like that, but we never get to see the actual attack that causes it, do we?

[Tovor]

That "pulse-checking" thing that Obi-Wan did...it looked to me like he was administering some Jedi version of Last Rites to a fallen knight.
And if memory serves, didn't Qui-Gon do that sort of thing to Obi-Wan right before HE died?


I don't think so, Sean, in fact I'm about certain of this. Qui-Gon reached up to wipe a tear from Obi-Wan's cheek.

[Seanakin]

Okay, that was a bit of a reach. *It could have been that they didn't even think of such a ritual before planning Episode II.

I find it difficult to keep up with these observations without seeing it for a second time. *I wish Luthien could finally see it already so I could do that. *??? *??? *???

[Rozi-Wan Kenobi]

if there was 1 scene i hated in AOTC...it had to be the whole giggling-rolling in the hay bit..urgh! *CHEEEEEEEEESSSYY* other than the beautiful dress, the beautiful hair and gawd the beautiful beautiful setting (minus the fat-assed cow-thingys) i totally cnot stand that scene. Plus the awkward is-the-camera-off-yet silence that follows after they've finished rolling. Anyone familiar with bollywood would know a bollywood movie would never be complete without the mandatory rolling-down-the-hill and running-ard-the-coconut-trees scenes. A homage perhaps?(Here i would want to point out that the new Naboo queen was kinda Indian...a great influence on the Naboo entertainment scene maybe) :biggrin:
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif that aside, someone wrote abt how cool GL showed Mace Windu's feet only as he approached Dooku on the viewing platform...then the "This party's over" line. Almost taratino-ish...
:bored: sorry about the innappropriate use of emoticons, newbie! lol style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

oh yea i LOVED the whistling sound Zam Weasell's (that lady's legs are SO long, they start frm under her armpits!) speeder/ship makes *whoooooooooooooooeeeeee* and the seismic charges. Ecstasy. Enough to make my toes curl.

[Tovor]

We see her get slashed, and that's one of the first shots we see of her like that, but we never get to see the actual attack that causes it, do we?


?? I'm sorry, Nathan, I'm not sure I follow you. "We saw her get slashed, but we didn't see the attack that causes it." The attack was the slash, when she was on top of the column and the creature slashed across her back with its claw. That was what tore the bottom half of her shirt off and ripped her skin open. BTW, I can only remember one other female scream of pain in the saga, Leia's in ROTJ when she got shot in the arm, and I think Padme's was more realistic and touching.

[Whur My-Jin]

When Anakin proclaims his feelings for Amidala, he says he can't breathe, which of course, is Vadar's trademark sound effect. * style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/inlove.gif

[camie]

One thing I noticed was that when Padmes ship blows up when it's landing on the platform. If you notice the two fighters that land on the one side of the decoys ship when it blows up one of the fighters go over the side but when you see Padme get up from her decoy you see two fighters there.
Was there more fighters on the landing platform or did they mess up this scene?

[Padiwan]

I have gone back in the past week or so and warmed up my memory on Ep.4-6. Something kinda struck me as I watched any scene inside a star destroyer. There seemed to be only humans as imperial personel. I dont think I ever saw an alien as an imperial. I then read that the emporer despised alien lifeforms and he tried to get rid of them. Is this right? Is it implied by Palpy or Sidious anywhere in Ep. 1 or 2? Also, are the storm troopers in Ep. 4-6 the same clones in Ep. 2 or are they different people. Maybe it will say in Ep. 3, I dont know!!!

[Seanakin]

One observation about Anakin: For someone so averse to politics and politicians, he sure knows how to say "I promise" with great abundance. *How ironic, dontcha think?

[Seanakin]

<span style='color:2679ef'>Here's a strange idea: If Anakin was indeed adminstering Last Rites to his mother, perhaps this means her spirit can join Qui-Gon's in this newly-discovered viminal Valhalla and they can have the fling they should have had back in Mos Espa.

The station's currently signed off for routine maintenance, so I've had more time than usual to think of such things, so don't mind me. *Silence is usually golden, unless you work overnights in radio, where the lack of sound can freak you out. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif </span>

[auntberu]

In the dining area of the Lars home, there is a design painted above the entrance. *When you watch ANH, sure enough, there is the same design visible when Luke has dinner with Owen and Beru. *Someone sure paid attention when filming that scene.

[Brian]

Did everyone notice that Darth Vader's theme music was faintly played after Anakin told Padme about him killing the Sand People?

It was also played another time that I cannot remember.

[Tarkheki- Jedi Dug]

i noticed that obi-wan was gorgeous.. and intelligent.. and... nauuughhtttyyy.....

[Teek]

Yeah, the monster that scratches Padme's back also rips off her shirt. In one of the the trailers from earlier this year it showed that scene, if you advance frame by frame you see the shirt get caught on the monsters nail and ripped off.

[Teta]

Good observation about the music!! Here's my take on that (as I go in for my 3rd time): JW may have a reason for this, for dropping both the Emperor's theme in and the Imperial march in at that point, besides showing the first stwp to Anni's becoming Vadrer.

We don't get to see just how tyrannical and oppressive Palpy and Vader's rule over thegalaxy is in Ep 4-6; when we hear the Imperial March, we think of vader as friggin cool, as well as badass. Of course we know they're evil, but it's very easy to be swayed by the seductive spellof the dark side; directors today know better how to potray evil more strongly than good. It is easy to see evil as a "cool" thing. The only time we get a sense of just ho wevil they are is the Temptation "scenes with Luke in Empire and ROTJ. But this is only evil on an up close and personal level.

When we now see the series, we will see it in order, and the musical thmes will fit and gorw. I don't know about you, but from now on, whenever I see that shot of the back of Vader's helmet in ESB, the first time we hear that stirring music as we look out the window witrh him, I'll always think of the Imperial March as the "I slaugtered them all like animals" theme.

Which is what Palpy's rule is about anyway--what power really is. That, and draining the galaxy's natural rescources.

[shaps]

I'm pretty sure the whole last-rite thing was nothing more then Anakin closing Shmi's eyes....

[Tovor]

Whoa, wait a minute, hold the phone and stop the press. *Before TPM came out official canon stated that at that time there were about 10,000 Jedi active in the Republic. *In AOTC in the Senate chamber, Mace told Yoda he would take what Jedi there were left and go to Geonosis. *In the arena there were several who were killed, but when it started there were perhaps several dozen. *Let's say, to be generous, there were 100 Jedi on Geonosis with Mace Windu. *He literally said, "I will take what Jedi we have left and go to..." *I wondered if what Mace meant was, "I will take what Jedi there are left on Coruscant who are not on thousands of different missions across the galaxy, and go to Geonosis...", but what I stated was the impression I got from the way he said it. We know that the empire will destroy the Jedi in Episode III, but this was before the Clone Wars had begun. *So how did the Jedi Order shrink from 10,000 Jedi to a hundred or so, more or less between Episode I and II? *

[Tovor]

And why am I posting random and confused ideas near midnight when I have to be at the courthouse at 7:45am for jury duty? Crap, I'm a little worried about tomorrow. I can read, digest, and write endless theories and ideas of Palpatine's schemes and Dooku's mysteries, but I am nervous about sitting in a jury box and paying attention to lawyers feeding information and hearing testimony to determine somebody's fate.

[Seanakin]

Okay, I'm officially scrapping any remaining ideas on that Last Rites thing. *After seeing it again and knowing what to look for, I guess y'all were right. *SHRUG*

Couldn't identify the voice behind the "NOOOOOO" that Yoda hears post-slaughter. *And I agree that Neeson's "ANAKIN! ANAKIN!" was most likely just a recycling of an Episode I outtake from Skywalker Sound.

Which makes it fun if Neeson does get used again for Episdoe III. *God, that would be a COOL Deus Ex Machina. *Which I fear Lucas is gonna need to finish this trilogy.

Tov, I think your "scattered" theory is correct. *After all the talk about how far Coruscant was from Geonosis, and given the urgency of the situation, it makes sense that that's all the Jedi Mace could muster at the drop of a hat.

Realistically, I doubt ILM could have put in that many Jedi to the battle scene and still meet GL's finicky standards. *At least not in 18 months of post-prod.

[Kafer]

Okay, a few more things I noticed on my second viewing.

The red "Imperial" guards by the doors of Palpatine's chamber, the first time Padme goes into his office.

The music, when Ani and Padme are over looking the water for the first kiss. The music swells as they kiss. The music swells further as it appears they're going to continue to kiss, then drops to almost nothing when Padme breaks it off. I laugh every time. It reminds me of when Satine is professing her love to Christian in Moulin Rouge. The music trails off when Christian says, "I'm not a Duke." "Not a Duke?" "No." It's great.

The way the Jedi "fly" as they drop from vehicle to vehicle during the Zam Weller chase scene. Always reminds me of flying squirels.

[Seanakin]

I agree about the music cutoff joke, Kafer. *What really should also have been there was the old sound gag of a record needle skidding off the turntable, right before the music faded to near-silence and Padme said "No."

Tovor, it's because of people like you that I have such immense faith in the judicial system. :biggrin: *:biggrin: *:biggrin:

[Wilk182]

If I remember correctly, at the end of Return of the Jedi, the novel, the Emperor makes a comment to Luke regarding Yoda and failing. Then think about who Yoda trained and his track record. Dooku (BAD), who trained Qui Gon (Good) who trained Obi-Wan (Good, but fails), who trained Anakin(Bad) and Luke (close to going Bad). If I recall the emperor wanted Luke to strike down his father and take his place at his side, would that not constitute a complete and utter failure by the most repected and powerful of all the Jedi, Yoda.

I also noticed in the film, when Obi tells Yoda and Mace about Sifo-Dyas, Yoda makes a face at Mace like there was alot more behind the name than his death.

[RollaFett]

I have to agree with the amount of Jedi at the arena battle being "all they could muster" at the time. Tover generously estimates that there might be 100 Jedi present at the battle. I would guess considerably less than that, but that doesn't matter. That must have been as much as they could get right then, I mean hell, during the scene where Yoda is instructing the kid Jedi, there must have been 15-20 kids. And that was probably just one of many classes for many different ages, right? Based on that, overall number of Jedi must be high. Do I make any sense? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

Something I noticed that i wasn't very fond of. During the scen when Dooku is being chased by Anakin and Obi-Wan, Anakin gives some type of order to a clonetrooper that works well. Obi-Wan then says something to the effect of, "Well done, my young apprentice." Not an appropriate line at all, considering the situation. Everything was entirely too hectic right then to spout off something so proper, don't you think? And it's not the only time that Obi-Wan does this throughout the film. Now I know that GL isn't known for great dialogue, but man, that stunk. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hmmm.gif

Someone earlier mentioned something about Anakin's artificial arm at the end of the movie and how it doesn't resemble Luke's lifelike artificial hand at the end of ESB. I don't have a problem with that, in fact it really goes with the "more elegant weapon for a more civilized age" comment that Obi-Wan delivers in ANH.

[Teek]

Well, here's not the most scientific answer, but on the radio I heard a LFL commercial for Ep. II, and it stated something along the lines of "200 Jedi" fighting for the cause in the battle of Geonosis.

[GuiGonJenn]

QUESTION

In the dialogue between Obi-wan and those CLoners. THey said a "MASTER Jedi Cyphedius" ordered the clones 10 years ago. Any clues who this character is?

[Teek]

GuiGonJenn, there is a thread on that subject here:

Who was Sifo-Dyas? (http://64.90.162.236/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=108)

[Tovor]

Tovor, it's because of people like you that I have such immense faith in the judicial system.

Wow, thanks. I hope that was not sarcasm! :wink:
What happened today was, my bad, I didn't quite understand the summons because it was not worded properly. Today was jury selection for a criminal trial, not the actual trial as yet. 6 jurors were needed out of about 3 dozen in the room, and we were there from the morn till 5pm. I can be very vocal in question and answer sessions, and the defense attorneys (2 of them) asked me several questions since I had made some statements regarding how I feel about certain issues. The prosecutor spent some time talking to me, but the 2 defense lawyers spent more time with me than anybody else I think, though that estimate is most likely not accurate. The prosecutor was interested in friends of mine who had ruined their lives on drugs and then recovered, and one who was killed by a dealer 15 years ago, and how that would affect my opinions in a trial. The defense lawyers were more interested in my opinions on remorse, rehabilitation, and redemption (no, I did not mention Anakin Skywalker!). While we waited outside for the final choosing of jurors, 2 people told me they were sure the lawyers were going to pick me due to how much time they spent questioning me and observing me, while one person was sure they wouldn't. Sure enough I was not chosen, so I left the courthouse at 5pm and went and saw AOTC again, for the 5th time! In a way I was glad because it would have been a 2 week trial, but on the other hand I was slightly dissappointed because I had never served as a juror before and I would have liked to perform my civic duty. And after spending that much time contemplating and responding to how I would be fair and impartial and how I would react to witnesses testifying and so on and so forth, after all that I would have liked to follow through and do my duty and make a difference.

Based on that, overall number of Jedi must be high. Do I make any sense?

Yes you do. Thanks. The temple was filled with classes and students before apprenticeship, and with the long traditions of the Jedi there couldn't be 100 adult Jedi and 15 kiddie Jedis. I am just worried about GL cutting out so much of the original scripts for filming and then expecting us to figure out what happened to all the Jedi. He is one who does not give us very much background to certain elements, like the origin of the Sith and their inner battle which wiped them out from within 1000 years ago. He sometimes throws a story element on the screen without explanation, and I was concerned that he tried to imply that recent events had wiped out much of the Jedi already, but went and edited that explanation out of the final movie.

Anakin gives some type of order to a clonetrooper that works well. Obi-Wan then says something to the effect of, "Well done, my young apprentice." Not an appropriate line at all, considering the situation. Everything was entirely too hectic right then to spout off something so proper, don't you think? And it's not the only time that Obi-Wan does this throughout the film. Now I know that GL isn't known for great dialogue, but man, that stunk.

I disagree with that assessment, for one reason. I think it was meant to show that no matter how well Anakin performs, Obi-Wan is always critical and refrains from crediting him in a way that would let him know his Master was pleased with his successful actions. That, after all, was Anakin's own complaint to Padme as she packed her clothes to leave Coruscant. Each time Obi-Wan called Anakin "young apprentice", or "my apprentice", it seemed it was meant to remind Anakin that he was still a padawan and not as great as Obi-Wan as yet. IMO that is also why Anakin stated that Obi-Wan was jealous of him. Rather than weak scripting, it was meant to show how Obi-Wan could not admit how impressed he was in Anakin. Did you see the look of hurt and dissappointment on Anakin's face at that point, when even after giving the right info to score a major blow to the enemy, his Master still reminded him of his lowly status compared to his?

[Tovor]

I was a little weirded out when Boba Fett picked up Jango's head. Who else expected the head to fall out?


Meche, I have an answer for that because I noticed it today when I saw the movie for the 5th time. The head did fall out, right after Mace lopped it off. The helmet went in one direction and something dark seemed to come out the bottom and fall in the opposite direction offscreen. So when Boba picked up the helmet, Jango's head was not in it. Next time you see the film watch closely as the helmet flies off, for something dark flying to the right away from it.

Teek, thanks for the 200 number. I hope that was not accurate, or else it would mean about 175 Jedi died in the arena, based on an estimate of how many were in the group surrounded by the droids closing in.

[Tovor]

Someone, somewhere, in this thread or another, said that Anakin's shadow next to Padme's on the Lars' igloo was Vader's shadow. When I saw AOTC again I watched for that carefully and I will tell you without a doubt it is not the shadow of Vader. The part of shadow sticking out the back of his head like Vader's helmet, is his ponytale and padawan braid.

However, a couple of seconds later, as he strode toward the speeder bike with his dark cape flowing behind him onto the ground, he looked exactly like Vader from the shoulders down walking away from camera in the old trilogy. Same style of cape, same fit across his back (unlike the way the Jedi robes fit their backs), same angle forward of his body, same stride. His body as it walked to the speeder bike and got on, was the future Darth Vader personified.

[Pepper]

Tovor, in response to what you said concerning Mace's words:
"I will take what Jedi there are left on Coruscant who are not on thousands of different missions across the galaxy, and go to Geonosis...",

In the opening crawl it says that the Jedi were overly-taxed (paraphrase) by the thousands of star systems intending to leave the Republic, and trying to keep order and peace in the midst of all this. *This tells me that Mace was saying that there weren't many left who weren't out and about trying to hold the Republic together. *Thousands of separatist systems equals thousands (even many thousands) of Jedi spread out all over the place.

[NelsonCoressel]

Anybody notice that all of the Clonetroopers have Temura Morrison's voice?

Again about Jango's head... I've only seen AOTC twice so far, but I think I remember briefly noticing Mace's eyes follow an object other than Jango's helmet as it flew off. I'll have to see it again to see if it's his head.

[Rozi-Wan Kenobi]

:biggrin: oooh everytime i log on there are more and more reasons to watch AOTC YET again....mmm i need to take more sick days *style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

things i noticed in AOTC

1) No Jabba. Not that i miss him but i tot he was part of the SW family...must hv missed the reunion.

2) No "and the universe turned into starlines" i.e view of galaxy as ship goes into hyperdrive. I think we saw it in TPM...that simple scene is what i best remember abt the original trilogy

3) The clones looked a whole lot more like Captain Typo..Trypo..Tryptophan (OH u noe who!) than Jango.

4) Must be nice being refugees in Coruscant...Mace ordered Anakin n Padme to travel as refugees to Coruscant...Anakin puts on a stained tunic to play the role while Padme wears this fantastic headpiece (check out how she has to lean alllllll the way to side to avoid hitting Dorme with it when they hug) and an elegant elaborate outfit (dull coloured, to*blend* in). Sure, refugees travel with 3 Samsonite luggages and an astromech in tow ALL the time... *:sigh:

[Kafer]

I hate to debate a point here, and perhaps a thread should be started about Anakin and Obi-Wan, but during that scene where Anakin tells the pilot to aim for just above the fuel cells, Obi-Wan is proud of his Padawan, but Anakin doesn't know his place. So even though he wants to compliment his apprentice, he still wants to remind him he is an apprentice.

It is obvious that Anakin doesn't know his place or humility. He is still the selfish little boy we met in TPM. Obi-Wan must remind him, always, that he is still learning and still young, even though he is powerful.

Any other compliment would probably go straight to Anakin's head, and make him even more arrogant. But, I could go on and on about this. Perhaps I'll start a thread to debate their relationship.

[Kafer]

One more thing. When Obi-Wan is in the Archives, waiting for the grey haired lady to assist him with his missing planet, that bust he is staring at. Is it Qui-Gon Jinn? I think it might be.

[NelsonCoressel]

I think it's Count Dooku's statue/bust/thingy he's looking at.

[Seanakin]

The bust IS of Dooku, actually.

Instead of "Good Shot," I was thinking something more along the lines of "How'd you know that?" I also think they wasted a valuable opportunity to put a good line in there.

[Tovor]

Check this out, some real neat foreshadowing, and obvious character transition. We all know that Palpatine is Sideous, the emperor of ROTJ, there is no doubt whatsoever. The emperor in ROTJ had a certain way of walking, with his body hunched forward and his hands together. In TPM, Sideous, the future ROTJ emperor, had that way of walking, slowly, body hunched forward just a bit, hands together or nearly together. In TPM Sideous did the "Sideous" walk while Palpatine walked in a regular, non-Sideous manner. In AOTC when Palpatine walked along with Anakin, making the "I can see already you are becoming the greatest of all Jedi", he was doing the Sideous walk.

[Deak_Starkiller]

Originally posted by Patrick@May 17 2002 - 14:34
The little thing that snagged my attention from the outset and which in retrospect really set the tone for a very bizarre (but fantastic!) movie was the fact that for the first time the camera panned UP to the action after the opening crawl!
It took me 4 times before I realized the pan up from the scroll, but I felt upside down too. *Very strange. *Any significant meanings behind all this? * style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

I also noticed some weird zooming in the battle sequence at the end. *(Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet). *I thought this was pretty cool. *It kind of put you in the battle more, rather than just observing from the outside.

[Nathan Butler]

Kafer: To expand on what Nelson said: The reason we know for sure that it's Dooku, even if not by likeness, is that the moments preceding that shot were cut from the film, but would have contained a discussion between Obi-Wan and Jocasta Nu regarding Dooku and "the Lost Twenty."

[Meche]

So Jango's head did fall out eh? Ew! Isn't this move rather violent? I don't remember so many beheadings in any SW movie... maybe I just forgot.

So, Threepio actually lived with the Lars family for a long time. Is that why in ANH Owen went straight to Threepio and was interested in buying him? Did he know it was him, or just thought he looked familiar? Or did he realize it was him later on and told Luke to wipe his memory?

[looceefir]

Finally got round to seeing it today, after hecticness with exams style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif But no matter, it rocked.

Most people have said the things i noticed, wanted to comment on a couple:

I too think it was a Vader shadow on Tatooine. I watched for it and while it's not a complete likeness it doesn't have to be, the allusion is there, and reinforced by the way Anakin exits.

The three graves on Tatooine: as someone else suggested, the other wife, but what about a brother/sister for Anakin? Not saying anything will be made of it, but could show a good example of character embellishment. Was the smaller grave in between the two bigger ones or on the other side of what we presume is Lars' other wife?

[Kafer]

My speculation on the three graves and Lars' Homestead are Owen's Grandma and Grandpa and possible aunt or uncle that died at an early age.

It seems the Lars' don't move much. We know Owen lives there after....is it Krieg?....dies, so maybe it's like a third or fourth generation homestead.

[Teta]

Speaking of Tatooine. The shadow on the wall is a direct reference to "Gone With The Wind". specifically, the shots of Scarlett and Melanie nursing in the hospital, and Scarlett's shadow on the wall as she goes into the room where he mother's body lies (a scene which still ranks on my Top 5 creepiest and chilling scenes ever. They got it right: the MUSIC in that shot, the shpw, the waxy white of Ellen's face vs the darkness of the room; etc.) Shadows falling across the purity of white (innocence).

I think it is haunting that the spot where Anakin took off to find his mother is the exact same spot where Luke stood for the binary sunset. He parked his speeder bike just to the left of the garage door, and if you look at that shot from the other angle in ANH, Luke walks a few steps out of the door to the left and stops. The ANH camera angle was pointing west; (towards the sunset), and it looks like in AOTC it is pointing north.

Strange that the lives of father andf son both changed at the exact same physical point. Anakin's life began to "contract", or go downhill, after he left that spot; he brought back his mother's body the next morning, and from then on began his journey to the Dark Side. For his son, Luke, life began to expand, after he stood at that spot; the next morning began his forst jureny across the stars and his triumphant destiny.

Isn't it strange to imagine now growing up with the ghosts running around that homestead (and we haven't even seen Ep 3.) I don't know about you, but I got the CHILLS seeing the newer characters walking across that old landscape. Watching Anakin carrying his mother's corpse into the building we all know as "Luke's garage" was CREEPY. Watching Padme running into the building "shrank"it somehow, like a house we grew up in and come back to after we've been out in the world. That _very_ dining table! And the whole "confession" scene gave me the creeps, not just Ani's words, but the fact that he collapses sobbing on the very bench that Luke watched Artoo's holo of Leia from. If those walls could talk...all those things that Luke will never even have a clue about, b/c Owen and Beru are dead.

What if he knew that his father took off to rescue his mother from that very spot? That he had parked his speeder bike on the very spot he used to like to stand and watch the Sunset from? (Then again, maybe Beru felt sorry for him, and told him that his father had been there once. Luke seems to have been told SOMETHING. Come to think of it, in the novel, Owen holds Anakin in absolute awe. By contrast, he seems to hate Luke, or at least, not treat him with any affection. I think I'll take you up on that Tatooine thread, Kafer...) What if Luke knew that His father confessed to his mother that he had massacred a whole village of Sandpeople on that very spot, in that very room? That he had sat on that same bench and repaired things, like he likes to do? What if he knew that his father carried his grandma;s body through that same door he goes in and out of every day?

This is what I now love about the series. You are starting to get the real sense of a history, a family drama. What makes it even creepier is, that was the ACTUAL Lars homsestead, filmed in Tunisia, not just the dining room (resturaunt), but the gov't kept the vaporaters, the garage, etc, as tourist attractions. So the 2nd generation (or the first, depending on your POV) DID return phyiscally to the same spot, just like in the film.

My eyes did pop-a wheelies at Padme's nightgown in that one porch scene! Yikes!! That whole thing is one of many that gave the film a whole different feel.

[Teta]

Continuing...Yes, Kafer, I noticed. And I would like to go on the record as saying that the librarian was a total b****. "Are you having a PROBLEM, Master Kenobi?" Well yes, ex-CUUUUUSE me. I may be jedi MAster, but I'm not all-powerful. I screw up like anyone else, and I suppose you know it all?

Yoda's comment about the Jedi becoming arrogant...esp the older and more experienced ones. Who erased the files? She seemed pretty quick to deny Kamino didn't exist. I'll bet she was in on the erasal. I'll bet she onto something. Let's say that she knew there was place called Kamino (and she at one time knew there had to be.) Wouldn't it seem odd that it would be gone? Yoda knew it was erased.

Also: more observations. The fairy tale aspect of this saga is brought out I think more in this film than any other SW film. I t is quite lovely, if you really stop to think about it. This whole "Knight and his Queen" bit. Of course, he's just an apprentice Knight and she's a former Queen, but the whole "protector" etc is there. You can say the same about Han and Leia, the commoner falling in love with the Princess, but with a rougher edge. This really is more like a traditional Fairy tale romance. Strange b/c i thought it would be more like a Han and Leia thing, but it seems more powerful for Darth Vader to have once been a sweet and conflicted boy on the cusp of manhood, trapped in a pure and innocent love. (OK< let's leave out the security camera thing for a minute... :tounge:

I sthere a thread opne on the love story? I hope so. But anyway, there's a lot of chivalry here, Anakin (the Knight)being assigned to protect a Queen, as she takes a journey. (Han sort of appoints himself the job, and thank God aversion to being a damsel in distress runs in the family.) Anakin taking Padme's hand and helping her out of the boat the rickshaw etc. She's so independent, surely she can get herself out of the damn boat! But this is all meant to be very Aurtherian roamnce, very charmingly Hollywood. If the critics rag on this for being hopelessly nostalgic, so the heck what. it's lovely, and the costumes make it even more so. We just don't see this sort of thing in a film nowadays. Nice to see Lucas still beleives in it, just by not being afraid to put it onscreen. And in a sci-fi film! (well, you know what I mean). And when they ride across the meadow on whatever that thing is (shaak?) it's hard not to imagine it being a horse. The Knight and his Queen riding across the meadow, her arms locked across his waist.

What I really love to think about is this: In the novel, does everyone remember after this scene, when they arrive back at the house, Ani starts to recite a nursery rhyme, and she finsihes it for him? He's surprised that they know the same nursery rhyme. Well, maybe they know the same fairy tales too. Jedi don't have access to "secular" fairy tales, I'm sure, but Anakin isn't a regular Jedi. He was taken from his mother at an age old enough that his mother HAD read him a lot of fairy tales. So that when he found out in the Gungan field she really was the Queen and not the handmaiden, and that he'd actually fallen in love with a real Queen (nevermind that she was elected, probably not like the Queen in his fairytale--or ours) and he was studying to become a jedi Knight (again, not the real kind of Knight but close enough), maybe he in his immature teenage innocence (and hey, wouldn't we, no matter how old we are?) pretended that they were enacting a fairytale, and started the whole chivalry/"Take my hand" bit. We allknow thiskid isn;t just in love withher, he's OBSESSED.
OK...

Anyway, that's an analogy that never fails to move me...

[Redsabre]

Some good observations so far. *I noticed the Vader-esque shadow when Anakin left to get Shmi. I wasn't sure before about hearing Qui-Gon say "Anakin, No!", but having now seen the movie 7 times, I'm convinced it was. Some other neat touches that others have mentioned:

Obi-Wan's line about Anakin being the death of him.

The whole Coruscant chase scene was like a combination of visuals from The French Connection and Blade Runner .

The part where Anakin's sabre is damaged and he says "Obi-Wan is gonna kill me." It made me think of the scene from TPM when Obi-Wan's lightsabre was malfunctioning on Naboo.

But my favorite part of the whole movie is after the first exchanges of Force powers between Dooku and Yoda. Yoda kind of shakes out his arms and hooks his claws in a Bruce Lee Enter the Dragon kind of pose, but the look on his face says it all. "whizzing me off, you are! Open up a can of whoop-ass, I will."

[Senator Theant]

HAHAHAHA . . . .

DId anybody else notice the ease at which the objects thrown at Yoda by Dooku fell to the ground. It seemed that Yoda struggled a little bit with gaining control of the object suspended in air, but once he had control, he had control.

Among other observations. . .

In the Chancellor's office at the beginning of the film, you can easily notice the shape of the chair that Palpatine occupies. Very similar to the Oval shape used aboard the Death Star in ROTJ. It even has certain buttons on the arms that Palp used to inform an officer in Ep VI: "Captain, fire when ready."

The "dogs" at the Tusken camp drown out Anakin's footsteps, esp when the two Tusken Raiders look up and see the two dogs fighting. Incredible it took me three viewings to realize it . . .

No Jabba in Ep II? I think not. I believe you may distinctly hear his voice ringing in the night club in Coruscant. You cant miss it. Its very loud. I would be surprised to find out that it wasnt his voice, though it may be argued that another Hutt was present.

[Rozi-Wan Kenobi]

Originally posted by Teta@May 22 2002 - 20:11
Yoda's comment about the Jedi becoming arrogant...esp the older and more experienced ones.
Does anyone else think he was referring to Dooku (btw here, Dooku=Duku is a fruit)...Dooku says how he's "become more powerful than any Jedi"...then does his finger-pointy-zappy thing

[Kafer]

The Yoda quote of Jedi getting more arrogant, especially the older ones. *I thought was aimed at Qui-Gon plus a little jab and Obi-wan.



Also, did anyone else notice when Padme's decoy gets blown up and Padme is comforting her, the decoy (Corday? is that her name) is bare footed.

[Meche]

Yeah, that was weird. Did her shoes get blown off but not her feet? I didn't think that possible. If they just fell off or something I don't see them anywhere.

[Kafer]

In the scene when Yoda is sensing Anakin killing all the Tuskens and we here Qui-Gon's voice saying "Anakin, Anakin!" Could it be Anakin's voice saying "No!" I went and saw it again yesterday and it certainly sounds like his voice.

[Luthien]

Originally posted by Teta@May 22 2002 - 20:11
Yoda's comment about the Jedi becoming arrogant...esp the older and more experienced ones. Who erased the files? She seemed pretty quick to deny Kamino didn't exist. I'll bet she was in on the erasal. I'll bet she onto something. Let's say that she knew there was place called Kamino (and she at one time knew there had to be.) Wouldn't it seem odd that it would be gone? Yoda knew it was erased.
Indeed, I was shocked at how arrogant that Jedi librarian was. "If it is not in here, it doesn't exist". That seemed so short-sighted, stupid and immature to me. The Jedi don't know everything.

[Luthien]

Originally posted by Kafer@May 25 2002 - 12:17
In the scene when Yoda is sensing Anakin killing all the Tuskens and we here Qui-Gon's voice saying "Anakin, Anakin!" *Could it be Anakin's voice saying "No!" *I went and saw it again yesterday and it certainly sounds like his voice.
From what I heard, it was Qui-Gon Jinn's voice...

[looceefir]

I think the Jedi librarian was meant to reflect some of the problems of the Jedi: their arrogance and stubborness.

I can't remember offhand but I've read a few people say it wasn't Qui-Gon saying "no" in that bit.

[Senator Amory]

Is it me, or am I the only one who notice one of the BIGGEST SPOILERS in Episode II? Didn't anyone elso notice the symbols on the CloneTrooper's helmets and the clone's spacecraft? It was the symbol of the Empire!!! Not the Old Republic, the New Republic, or the New Jedi Order's symbol, it was the Empire's symbol!!! As I have stated before, Palpatine is the Emperor. So obviously, after the war is over, he does not give back his power as promised, and gives rise to his New Order. So, in that sense, the CloneTroopoers do become the StormTroopers on the OriginalTrilogy. And to make my Palptine=Sidious/Emperor theory more valid, the DeathStar plans were with Count Dooku, who met with Sidious. And, if the Storm Troopers have the Empire's symbol on their suits, but they are the property of the Republic(Chancellor Palpatine), and they obviously turn into the StormTroopers of the Empire along with the DeathStar. Feww, it was a lot easier to explain it in my head until I started writing it.

[Kafer]

One thing I noticed missing in the movie. The scene from the trailers, when Obi and Ani are talking.

Obi: She's a politician and they're not to be trusted.
Ani: I've heard this lesson before
Obi: You haven't learned anything

I don't think it's anywhere in the movie. I know they talk about not trusting Politician. but that exact exchange is not in there.

[Tovor]

Obi: *She's a politician and they're not to be trusted.
Ani: *I've heard this lesson before
Obi: *You haven't learned anything.
I noticed that as well, Kafer. *In the trailer it appeared to take place in the nightclub they chased Sam Wessel into. *They had a nearly exact same discussion in Padme's apartment while she slept. *Either the nightclub "lesson" had been meant to further the discussion in the apartment, or else it was simply replaced by the lesson in the apartment. *I am still curious about it, to know if there was more to be told that ol' GL chose to trim down. I heard somewhere, maybe on these boards, that AOTC was originally 4 hours long and editted to 2 hours 14 minutes. *Well knock me down with a feather! Who do I have to bribe to be able to watch a 4 hour SW movie?

Another scene in the trailers but missing in the movie, although the subject was implied regardless, was when Bail Organa stated, "We have to stop them before they're ready", regarding the Seperatists droid army. *

The Yoda quote of Jedi getting more arrogant, especially the older ones. *I thought was aimed at Qui-Gon plus a little jab and Obi-wan.
I agree, but I also feel, although Yoda would not admit it, that he was implying older ones such as himself and Mace Windu. *After all, they were considered the 2 most revered and powerful Jedi of all, yet they were in the dark despite their abilities due to the shroud of the dark side. *They had thought they could control and handle everything, yet they were blindsided and fooled by the Dark Lord of the Sith. *Yoda may not have felt that way regarding himself when he made that comment, but he sure felt it at the end when he announced that the shroud of the dark side had fallen.

[looceefir]

I also feel, although Yoda would not admit it, that he was implying older ones such as himself and Mace Windu. After all, they were considered the 2 most revered and powerful Jedi of all, yet they were in the dark despite their abilities due to the shroud of the dark side.

I agree totally on this. I don't see how you can take a comment like that, from probably the oldest Jedi around, without considering that he is somehow accused by his words.

[DanielSkywalker]

This is just a little something. Did anyone else notice that Obi-Wan's starfighter looks alot like a really small version of Darth Vader's Executor (super star destroyer)?

[Senator Amory]

Yeah it does, doesn't it? I never noticed that. I guess that shape moves well in space. But did you also notice that the CloneTrooper's ships very closely resemble the future StarDestroyers? I guess the Empire copied the design. Too lazy to think of their own design. But, I can't lie, I wouldn't might have a SuperStarDestroyer of my own. That would be awesome!

[Vyndim]

I believe making the "transports" look like future Imperial vessels was an artistic choice that foreshadows the future. Also, if the idea worked why would Palpatine need to modify it? Remember, hes running the Republic so hes already begun shaping things how he wants them.

[Meche]

In the beginning, when Amidala is disguised as a pilot, anyone notice that after she gets out of her starfighter, she walks exactly like a girl? (stereotypically, I mean). I mean, I hadn't even known about her disguise, but when I saw that gait, I wondered.

[Vyndim]

Well, the moment I saw her get out of the starfighter, I knew it was her just by the eyes. Plus, they made a big deal about her having a decoy before, I figured she would be doing it again.

[Tovor]

I noticed the fighter pilot's female walk, but more than that I noticed the way the decoy walked down the ramp without the grace and smoothness of how Padme as queen in TPM walked. Right off the bat I could tell that the woman coming out of the ship wasn't Padme at all.

I realized something else after my most recent 6th viewing of ATOC. Actually I realized it after my 3rd viewing. While AOTC is more enjoyable for me than TPM (which I loved but found lacking), and I really do love this new film, the climactic lightsaber duels of Obi, Ani, and Yoda against Dooku do now bore me. They were good the first time I saw them, and the Yoda duel was exciting and surprising, but they no longer hold my interest by the time I get to that point in the movie. My true excitement starts with Anakin and Padme’s trip through the droid factory, the arena battle, the Clone army attack, the chase after Dooku, and ends with Obi and Ani reaching Dooku’s hangar. The original thrill of the 3 duels against Dooku have diminished in me to boredom at that point in the movie, yet the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Darth Maul duel of TPM still thrills me everytime I watch it. What can I say? AOTC is a better story and movie, but TPM still reigns as having the best climactic lightsaber duel of all the movies.

[JocastaNu]

Either the nightclub "lesson" had been meant to further the discussion in the apartment, or else it was simply replaced by the lesson in the apartment. *

How it worked actually is that the "She's a politician part" didn't come in front of the nightclub, it always happened in the apartment. *The "I've heard this lesson before" and "But you haven't learned anything" always came in front of the nightclub, as part of Obi-Wan was giving Anakin back his lightsaber. *However that was replaced with the re-shot scene(you can tell by that godawful beard they have stuck on Obi-Wan:)) *where Obi-Wan says "...You must think. Use the Force, etc", I can only imagine it was changed to have Obi-Wan say something more teacherly.

I don't think the "arrogance" line was really directed specifically at anyone, either Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon or Mace. *I think Yoda was just speaking in general. Especially seeing as Obi-Wan really does not act that arrogantly during the film. *He's probably less arrogant than just about any of the Jedi except possibly Yoda. He's respectful to the masters, he asks for help when he needs it, he's willing to use "nontraditional" sources of information and trust them(like Dex), he doesn't react negatively to Yoda's teasing about his "lost planet", he even gets in on Yoda's teaching method with the younglings as he's following Yoda's lead and by the tone of his voice is directing his question regarding the missing planet to them as well as Yoda and gives kind of a warm smile when that little kid answers it. * Jocasta Nu was meant to give us an example of how even some of the older Jedi have become arrogant, possibly Ki Adi Mundi and maybe a little bit of Mace Windu(at the beginning when both of them are unwilling to believe Dooku could be behind her assassination attempts).

Tovor, while I haven't seen the lightsaber duel enough to bore me, style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif I do agree that the one with Maul still tops it. It's just much more exciting, especially in the way it's shot. The camera stays on Maul and Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon for a long period of time and you can see their full bodies into it, see the shots being blocked. The final part between Obi-Wan and Maul is especially exciting because they trade so many blows in a row(Ewan and Ray really outdid themselves in that scene). The editing is much too choppy and unclear to really get into it in AOTC.

[Kafer]

I've got a question. *Who is the actor that Obi talkes with in the bar?

Antenna guy: *Do you want to buy some Death Sticks
Obi: *You don't want to sell me Death Sticks
Antenna guy: *I don't want to sell you Death Sticks
Obi: *You want to go home and rethink your life
Antenna guy: *I want to go home and rethink my life

Who is he. *He seems so familiar it's driving me nuts.

Also, the whole lightsaber thing. The AotC battle hasn't bored me yet, but after my fourth viewing I realized I really do prefer the TPM lightsaber battle more. I only hope that Anakins and Obi's duel in EPIII will be closer to TPM than AotC.

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Kafer@May 28 2002 - 12:27
I've got a question. *Who is the actor that Obi talkes with in the bar?
In the bar, the man who offers Obi-Wan "death sticks" is Mouse from the Matrix, and the child in the library (with the old woman) is the bald kid who bends spoons from the Matrix.

[Kafer]

Thank you!!!!!!!!!! I was going nuts. Every time I see it I think, I know that guy. It's on the tip of my brain.

[Teta]

Thanks Winston! I knew about Mouse, but that kid is also from the Matrix? You think GLO doesn't care about the competition? The man is clearly obsessed, when all the kid had to do was stand there for 2 seconds onscreen and then walk away style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/exclamation.gif I mean, you could dress up any gaffer's kid in a Jedi outfit and that would do:).

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Teta@May 28 2002 - 20:05
Thanks Winston! I knew about Mouse, but that kid is also from the Matrix?
That's what I heard.

I also heard that the actress who plays "the girl in the red dress" from the Matrix in it also (although, I don't think she's actually wearing a red dress in this one...), somewhere around the time when Zam crashes her speeder onto the street near the Outlander.

I don't know if it's necessarily true, or not; as with everything else these days, there is a lot of speculation and rumor out there concerning AotC.

Btw, have you heard this one?

"The Jedi who throws the lightsabers to Anakin and Obi-wan in the Geonosian Arena battle is Steve Sansweet, who works for Lucasfilm as an archivist, is an author of Star Wars books and collector of mercandise."

You can find more stuff like this at:

http://www.movie-mistakes.com/film.php?filmid=2254

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by Kafer@May 28 2002 - 18:53
Thank you!!!!!!!!!! *I was going nuts. *Every time I see it I think, I know that guy. *It's on the tip of my brain.
Yep. I had a feeling he looked familiar.

[Tovor]

Tovor is back. *I *just worked a 16 hour (8am-12am) day, I'm tired, yet I still want to talk about AOTC because I thought about it while at work.

I don't know if this had been mentioned or so much as noticed by anyone else. *In the Naboo royal courtyard are a few Gungans standing around, wearing the type of headdress worn by the Gungan leaders with Boss Nass in TPM. *This was a nice touch, showing us that after Amidala and Boss Nass made their alliance in the last film, now the Gungans walk freely among the Naboo. *Thanks to Amidala, and Jar Jar, the segregation is no more. *If I remember right, they can be seen to the lower right of the screen just before we see Padme walking on the left and Anakin walking alongside on her right, with R2 behind them (the scene seen in the Forbidden trailer.).

[catwmnjedi]

What are you guys talking about? The kid in the library is GL's son. Duh. Don't you watch the documentaries? His daughter was the light blue Twil'lek in the bar standing with Ahmad Best.

I dunno, maybe the kid was in the Matrix also... I still haven't seen that movie... *ducks*

I plan to... promise! Hubby saw it with his friends and I never got around to it.

[Winston_Sith]

Originally posted by catwmnjedi@May 29 2002 - 12:57
What are you guys talking about? *The kid in the library is GL's son. *Duh. *Don't you watch the documentaries
Hmmm... Are we talking about the dame kid here?

I'm talking about that the kid in the library who was waiting patiently for Jocasta to finish with Obi-Wan, as being in the Matrix. I have heard the the padawan kid in the map room who says that the files must have been erased was GL's son.

Like I said in one of my previous posts, I could be wrong.

After all, this is the Misinformation Age.

[Rozi-Wan Kenobi]

Originally posted by Tovor@May 28 2002 - 00:29
yet the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Darth Maul duel of TPM still thrills me everytime I watch it. What can I say? AOTC is a better story and movie, but TPM still reigns as having the best climactic lightsaber duel of all the movies.
Hear hear! I thought the lightsaber duel in AOTC was kinda slow actually(Yoda notwithstanding) even when anakin had 2 lightsabers the strokes wr still slow n deliberate, but the drums drumming in the background..mmm nice

the TPM lightsaber duel send shivers down my spine everytime i watch it...its incredible, esp when obi-wan lashes out at maul after qui-gon was slain. best 3 secs ever. :smile: