What makes the story of SW so powerful?

[Emalin]

There's no denying the Star Wars films are a multi-linguial, multi-cultural phenomenon. While the special effects are spectacular (yes, the OT's effects were spectacular in its day), and the genre of "science fantasy" is an exciting one, the story has to be the most powerful element of the Saga. But what is it about the story that makes it resound with audiences everywhere? What's at its heart that gives it its power?

This is something I've pondered ever since Episode III came out. Now I'd like to know what all of you think. :scratchchin: To me, it seems the redemption story is what's so powerful. In Anakin we see the message that even the most evil person is not beyond hope of redemption.

[Ripley]

How it is told.

[MandalorianJF]

Star Wars has everything you are looking for battles, death, drama, betrayal, dogfighting, fighting with sabers, force(magic), and so on.

[Cydon]

Don't know. Wish I did though.

[Emalin]

No worries. I started this thread as a place to think on and discuss the topic. If we can get a few more people involved in the discussion, we may come up with lots of good answers. :D

[DarthSolo]

Lovable characters.

[thepepgal]

It is a combination of alot of stories which are both classical and mythical. The special effects have modernised it so to capture the imagination of the current audience.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I think it's the whole package.

Great story with various themes (love, good vs evil, religious connutations) , fantastic characters, quality action scenes, ability to appeal to all age groups, ground breaking cinematic techniques. You can watch the films on so many different levels, they are just simply irresistable.

[Urplepay]

The combination of the profound and the mundane, and the deceptive simplicity, underneath which lies a great deal of complexity. Also, that you can see new things each time you watch one of the movies.

Mark Hamill said in 1987, the 10th anniversary of the release of ANH (I'm paraphrasing) that the 1970s were a very cynical decade, and people were ready for a heroic story where the good guys win.

Harrison Ford said in 1994 or thereabouts (again, I'm paraphrasing) that, during the filming of ANH, he had a feeling it would succeed, because Lucas had tapped into something primordial, something that people had been longing to see without even being aware of it.

[silverbolt]

Harrison Ford said in 1994 or thereabouts (again, I'm paraphrasing) that, during the filming of ANH, he had a feeling it would succeed, because Lucas had tapped into something primordial, something that people had been longing to see without even being aware of it.


something alec guiness saw from the beginning

[huttslime]

Star Wars has everything you are looking for battles, death, drama, betrayal, dogfighting, fighting with sabers, force(magic), and so on.

That's a good reason. Pretty much sums it up.

[Fallen One]

I think it's the whole package.

Great story with various themes (love, good vs evil, religious connutations) , fantastic characters, quality action scenes, ability to appeal to all age groups, ground breaking cinematic techniques. You can watch the films on so many different levels, they are just simply irresistable.I believe you got it right there: "The ability to appeal to all age groups" To me that is the magic of SW and the Characters, you can Identify with almost every character in SW there something for everyone..

[huttslime]

I believe you got it right there: "The ability to appeal to all age groups" To me that is the magic of SW and the Characters, you can Identify with almost every character in SW there something for everyone..

To add to that, it doesn't only appeal to all age groups, but to all types of people too. You have action and adventure, politics, drama, sfi-fi, etc.

[Master Shrive]

A great topic. I was thinking this after I watched all the episodes in order a couple of months back.

To me, I don't think you can go past the story of one mans fall from grace, and his eventual redemption.

It doesn't matter what setting you put this story line in. All the other things in Star Wars work so well too, but even if you stripped them away, the power of the movies would still be there, IMHO.

[STar war spUNK]

all about the music. :)


and hot actors in the movies... (mark hamil in episode 4, hayden christensen in episode 3, ewan mcgregor in episode 1) :wink:

i love the story b/c of how it is presented... the special effects, the scenery, etc. everything ties in together so nicely!

[Mothman]

It's like baseball. On the surface it is rather simple -- something for children. But as you dig into it, it has incredible complexities.

(In saying this, I am talking primarily about ANH and ESB. IMO, all of the other films made after that don't live up to the same standard as the first two films.)


:bye:

[Emalin]

Speaking of complexities, I just read something today that got me to thinking again. While reading "STORY" by Robert McKee, I came across this paragraph:

"A good story well told fosters a good film. But a good story well told with the added power of subliminal symbolism lifts the telling to the next level of expressivity, and the payoff may be a great film. Symbolism is very compelling. Like images in our dreams, it invades our unconscious mind and touches us deeply -- as long as we're unaware of its presence. If, in a heavy-handed way, we label images as 'symbolic,' their effect is destroyed. But if they are slipped quietly, gradually, and unassumingly into the telling, they move us profoundly."

My thoughts at the moment of reading? "AHA! That's it!" :D What makes the story of SW so powerful has to be the symbolism. It's there somewhere...I can sense it...I just can't put my finger on it right away. And that's part of why the SW movies are so tantalizingly complex!

In that case, I'd love to hear your opinions on this. Are there any symbols in SW that you can find?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I think that one of the most obvious symbols is that of SW relation to Christianity, in that Anakin's birth was 'virginal'. Yoda vs Sidious was like a fight of good vs evil (almost, but not quite, God vs The Devil) Although I am not sure if this is the sort of thing you meant, it has been a long time since I had to search for symbolism in a text or a film!

[silverbolt]

I think that one of the most obvious symbols is that of SW relation to Christianity, in that Anakin's birth was 'virginal'. Yoda vs Sidious was like a fight of good vs evil (almost, but not quite, God vs The Devil) Although I am not sure if this is the sort of thing you meant, it has been a long time since I had to search for symbolism in a text or a film!

huh? Sorry but no i dont see that in there at all apart from anakins virgin birth one of the several things i hated about TPM. That was just the worst thing in the film. How do droids, jedi, star fighters, light sabers and in essence wizards (something severly frowned upon by christianity) death stars and almighty tyrants look similar to christiantity. (ok tyrants i can see in christianity)

To me i think its the combinastion of futiristic weapons with the myth and sword/sworcery aspect that is the jedi. It speaks to nearly every one who likes sci-fi fantasy

[huttslime]

I think that one of the most obvious symbols is that of SW relation to Christianity, in that Anakin's birth was 'virginal'. Yoda vs Sidious was like a fight of good vs evil (almost, but not quite, God vs The Devil) Although I am not sure if this is the sort of thing you meant, it has been a long time since I had to search for symbolism in a text or a film!

You know, there's actually a whole book about Star Wars and Christianity: Christian Wisdom of the Jedi Knights.

[Emalin]

You know, there's actually a whole book about Star Wars and Christianity: Christian Wisdom of the Jedi Knights.

Is that so? I didn't know that. Have you read it? If you have, what does it say in summary?

[AnaSkywalker]

well, the book expresses the opinion that the force really exists and they wish to make it an official religion, or something like that. I've flipped throught it at a store.

as for what makes SW so powerful: i really can't answer that. I love the series(both trilogies) and I'm really touched by them, by the story and the characters and the idea, and I really can't explain why. I agree with emalin on the message that it gets accross, that no one is beyond redemption, but there's also the really 'cliched' ideas that it gets across: good vs. evil and man vs. machine, which, no matter how old, are still very powerful.

[Emalin]

well, the book expresses the opinion that the force really exists and they wish to make it an official religion, or something like that. I've flipped throught it at a store.

Oh. :rolleyes: I wouldn't have guessed that from the book's title. It doesn't sound like it was written by Christians.

as for what makes SW so powerful: i really can't answer that. I love the series(both trilogies) and I'm really touched by them, by the story and the characters and the idea, and I really can't explain why.

:w00t: See, see?? That's symbolism at work, right there!

LOL, kidding. It's definitely more than the symbolism. There's got to be something -- probably many things -- at the heart of Star Wars that lends the story its power. Those are the things I hope to recognize someday.

I agree with emalin on the message that it gets accross, that no one is beyond redemption, but there's also the really 'cliched' ideas that it gets across: good vs. evil and man vs. machine, which, no matter how old, are still very powerful.

I hadn't thought of that. When communicated in a fresh way, even those clichés can take on new life and meaning. That's encouraging for a fanfic writer.... :wink:

[AnaSkywalker]

or someone who hopes to be a fanfic writer. I want to write fanfics, or write in general, but somehow i never write anything down. partly, no time, and partly because i have a very vague idea but don't know where to start writing.

and good vs. evil is the oldest theme in literature and fiction, but it's still used in really popular series, for example Harry Potter, and the way it's used in star wars definately works really well(my dad doesn't agree, though).

and i didn't really get your mention of symbolism..

I think what also draws me to star wars is its immensity-it's hard to comprehend it all because it's so LARGE,, there's two generations, there's a whole galaxy, and there's so many characters that you can attach yourself to! Also, the interconnectedness of it all, for example, at the end of episode 6, you see a direct link to episode 3 with the ghost of (young) anakin skywalker, etc..am i making sense?

[Emalin]

or someone who hopes to be a fanfic writer. I want to write fanfics, or write in general, but somehow i never write anything down. partly, no time, and partly because i have a very vague idea but don't know where to start writing.
Yeah, I know what you mean on both points. If you like, I could help you find "where to start," to the best of my ability. Though I can't help you with the time factor, of course. :wink:

and good vs. evil is the oldest theme in literature and fiction, but it's still used in really popular series, for example Harry Potter, and the way it's used in star wars definately works really well(my dad doesn't agree, though).

and i didn't really get your mention of symbolism..
Oh, I was referring to a post I made earlier in the thread. Have you read the whole thread yet?

I think what also draws me to star wars is its immensity-it's hard to comprehend it all because it's so LARGE,, there's two generations, there's a whole galaxy, and there's so many characters that you can attach yourself to! Also, the interconnectedness of it all, for example, at the end of episode 6, you see a direct link to episode 3 with the ghost of (young) anakin skywalker, etc..am i making sense?
Definitely! I've thought of that myself. The term that seems to fit is "epic" -- the "epic" proportions of Star Wars. Or should we say "galactic" in this case? LOL. Either way, I've always loved immense stories! :like:

[Talcy]

First, I think that it's important that people see that Star Wars succeeded because of the first film, and then maybe Empire, given the non-obvious direction it took the story in. No more than that. It succeeded because of the story it told at the time it was told.

As someone has already mentioned, the 1970's were a generally awful decade for many in the west, especially the US and UK. Star Wars told a simple story about clear elements of good versus bad, in very simple and yet decepitvely symbolic terms, as someone else has mentioned. It involved core human emotions with old fashioned action values, brought up to date to an, at the time, contemporary setting.

At the time, GL knew that he was dealing with an almost scientific way of dealing with universal mythical story and he dealt us the cards as he saw fit. Because of who we were at the time, the time we lived in, and who GL was at athat tinme, it worked. No one should attempt to look further, for fear of becoming a Hollywood Exec. Fact is that no one saw it coming.

To me, GL tried to apply those older values plus his own modern values which he thought would work, which led to the critical failure of the new films. but that is another argument. That's not a cue for another Old Vs New debate.

Fact is, at the time, we had never seen anything like SW before. And, because it appealed to us in both superficially narrative and sub/unconscious terms, we ate it up.

And it will most likely never happen again, no matter what folks say about the new films.

The script for Star Wars is, itself, extremely well written, in terms of conflict, scene reversals, character definitions, etc...more than I can mention right now.

[AnaSkywalker]

well, i only watched all the movies last year, so i can't really agree with your argument that it was old extremely new in the 1970s. It appeals to me even though it's been around for a while, and everyone knows what a lightsaber is now, and everyone's heard of the galaxy far far away without even seing the movie.

emalin: yes, i read the whole thread but i might've missed something. As for helping me with writing, that would be great! we're pm ing each other so maybe we can decide something there.

and yes, epic definately fits! you seem to have a liking for 'epic' series: star wars, Lotr, narnia..

on a rather random note, i was reading a star wars book today before english class and my english teacher got mad at me. he said i was 'reading trash'. actualy what he said was 'i disapprove' but i got the message.

[Talcy]

well, i only watched all the movies last year, so i can't really agree with your argument that it was old extremely new in the 1970s.

Not sure I know what you mean.

[melissa_ladyvader]

the best thing about star wars is how anakin skywalker became darth vader
and george did an excellent job explaining that.

[AnaSkywalker]

sorry, a 'not' can really mess things up. what i mean was:

well, i only watched all the movies last year, so i can't really agree with your argument that it was extremely new in the 1970s and a change and that's why everyone liked it, i liked it although it's fairly behind in special effects for 2006/2007.

[Mothman]

the best thing about star wars is how anakin skywalker became darth vader
and george did an excellent job explaining that.

Unfortunately for me, how Lil' Ani became Mr. Vader was the least plausible part of the saga. I guess after waiting so long, I was expecting something different - something more powerful - something more _________. (I wish that I could better express what I mean. What I just wrote doesn't exactly convey my thoughts.)

:bye:

[AnaSkywalker]

i think i know what you mean. I liked the story of episode 3(or maybe just christenson in jedi robes) and it's a good story to explain the fall of a jedi, but it's not LARGE enough or important enough to explain why the 'chosen one' became darth vader and how he could fall so quickly from good to evil. It seemed a bit rushed.

which reminds me: is it ever really explained what 'balance' means and what the prophecy states? because that's a major thing that everyone who doesn't like Sw harps on: the fact that the prophecy is just thrown in and pointless.

[Mothman]

i think i know what you mean. I liked the story of episode 3(or maybe just christenson in jedi robes) and it's a good story to explain the fall of a jedi, but it's not LARGE enough or important enough to explain why the 'chosen one' became darth vader and how he could fall so quickly from good to evil. It seemed a bit rushed.

which reminds me: is it ever really explained what 'balance' means and what the prophecy states? because that's a major thing that everyone who doesn't like Sw harps on: the fact that the prophecy is just thrown in and pointless.

I think that GL alludes to what bringing balance means in one of the documentaries or in the commentary track on the ROTS DVD. If I remember correctly, it was along the lines of getting rid of the Sith ... (which seems more like "imbalance" to me).

:bye:

[AnaSkywalker]

If I remember correctly, it was along the lines of getting rid of the Sith ... (which seems more like "imbalance" to me).

:bye:

I'd have to agree with you on that.

[Mothman]

I'd have to agree with you on that.

Thanks!


:bye:

[AnaSkywalker]

I've been reading a lot of discussions lately about 'balance and imbalance' and the prophecy and how events might be interpreted. Maybe I'm fishing for fish in sand but maybe I'll figure something out. I've heard this mentioned, that when the republic falls there's two bad jedi: vader and palpatine) and 2 good(obi wan and yoda) but then luke takes obi wan's place. And then he creates imbalance again by killing palpatine and vader and staying alive. Or maybe that's what balance is because then he brings about a new, maybe more balanced order?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

^ I have been thinking about this too. Before really delving into the whole SW thing, I simply thought that the Jedi were good and the Sith evil. However, things are not as clear cut as that and the Jedi made mistakes during the PT, which ultimately cost them, they were not willing to move on, they had become archaic.

Whilst the Sith were the dark and could not rule a balanced galaxy, there became a time when the Jedi could also not do this. So both had to go to restore balance.

In 'Cloak of Deception' (EU, so not everyone who reads will consider this appropriate) Chancellor Valorum (who had spent many hours studying the Jedi) believed that 'the Force ruled the ordinary world and that the role of the Jedi was to behave in a manner which kept the balance between good and evil.' 'They were not to let the dark side in nor were they to reveal the light which may blind the world to some greater truth.'

Anakin brought balance by ensuring the dark side no longer ruled. But he needed his son to 'save him' in order to do this. Luke then formed a new Jedi order in which Jedi were not as restricted as under the old Jedi Council and this regime was therefore considered balanced, IMO.

[lovelucas]

what a great thread!
and my suggestion is -
The Power of the Myth....
and that George recognized it was missing in American culture in the 1970's.

[AnaSkywalker]

i heard that lucas said in an interview that balance means getting rid of the sith, so now I dunno what to think.

[Emalin]

Wow, that's pretty interesting. BUT - when Darth Vader turns on the Emperor, he is essentially killing the last of the Sith. Well, he is the last, so when he dies he "restores balance" to the Force.

Still, I don't understand either. After that, you would think that the Force remains "in balance." But the Sith rise up again and again in the EU. What's the significance of Anakin's being the Chosen One if the "balance" he restores doesn't stick around?

Oops...but that isn't the topic of this thread. :blush: Maybe there's one already made for this?

what a great thread!
and my suggestion is -
The Power of the Myth....
and that George recognized it was missing in American culture in the 1970's.

True! Now that I think of it, that's part of what makes the Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia powerful - the "myth-like" element.

Just a question, though: what makes myths so powerful in the first place?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

True! Now that I think of it, that's part of what makes the Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia powerful - the "myth-like" element.

Just a question, though: what makes myths so powerful in the first place?

I think part of it is that they are stories that are made almost believeable in the human mind, as they incorporate known things in different situations e.g. a half man half goat combination.

[AnaSkywalker]

Emalin! Great to see you! the first line of your post made me laugh: vader turns on the emperor. but never mind that.

i haven't read nearly enough eu novels to really know what you're talking about, but i know what you mean. Somehow. But if you think about it, what happened on the death star was purely between luke and anakin and had no effect on the outcome of the movie. how, you say? because luke and anakin and the emperor could all very easily have been bolown up in the middle of their little pow wow by lando clarissan-it's just a matter of timing about when han got that shield down. so the argument that anakin got rid of the sith is true, of course, but only because of the timing.

[Fish1941]

What I find fascinating about STAR WARS is that Anakin's story tells me that what happened to him . . . a good person who allowed evil to enter his heart - can happen to just about anyone. It also tells me how the discovery and real acceptance of one's Self can help a person avoid Anakin's fate or rescue him or herself from such a fate.