Yoda: Sith In Disguise

[Darth Yoda]

If Yoda was truly a Jedi, he would have reported sensed the dark side in Palps and exposed him long before he controlled the senate. Yoda also gets very overly sensitive whenever the dark side of the force is discussed in both OT and PT. He also started the Clone Wars when he invaded Federation territory with his clone army.

He is also a force lightning user (http://www.stardestroyer.net/ROTS/Yoda-1.jpg)

[Jedi Master Harrison]

:welcome:

The darkside clouds a Jedi's ability to use the force. Yoda and the other Jedi were not able to sense that Palpatine was the Sith Lord they had been looking for.

I imagine Yoda does not want impressionable Jedi to know the power of the dark side in case the lure of it is too strong for them. Maybe Yoda knows more about the darkside than other Jedi, he would have probably had to learn about it to be able to understand it. He knew the light side of the force was more powerful. That's why he was able to deflect darkside lightning.

He had to use the Clone army to save the many Jedi from extinction. He was loyal to the Republic and acted in good faith to try and protect it.

Yoda was in no way a Sith, in fact he was probably the furthest from being a Sith of any character.

[electric]

Yoda does seems to know the danger of the dark side more explicitly than the other Jedi.

Yoda also said that the dark side of the force "clouds everything," which makes it difficult to tell when someone is a sith. Windu said that the dark side of the force "surrounds the chancellor," which I would guess means that there was a fog of confusion about him that the Jedi couldn't quite penetrate--it was enough to raise suspicion, but they were not able to tell he was a sith.

Same thing when Qui-Gon fought Darth Maul for the first time. He exposed to the council his reasons for believing that Maul was a sith, but never said that he sensed him being a sith.

[thepepgal]

I agree with JM Harrison and electric. The dark side does cloud everything.

Yoda was 900 years old and had been training jedi for 800 years so he had plenty of time to study the force including the dark side. But that knowledge may not have give the skills to feel the dark side in someone else.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

In the novelisation of ROTS there is extra detail which wasn't necessarily explicitly stated in the film. Jedi are unable to sense that Palpatine is a Sith using the force, as Palpatine was 'beyond power' and so he showed nothing of what was inside him - inside him force users only saw absolute nothingness. He was like an event horizon of the darkside, 'darkness beyond darkness.' So not even Yoda, as powerful as he was, could sense that Palpatine was the Sith Lord they had been looking for.

This is reinforced in that once Dooku is killed, Kenobi feels like the shroud of the dark side, clouding the force, has lifted for the first time since TPM, although obviously he soon finds out differently!

[Cydon]

Ummm...I wish, but it just ain't gonna happen Darth Yoda. EDIT: BTW Darth Yoda, the link is broken.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Interstingly, I have just watched TPM. When Yoda has made Obi Wan a Jedi Knight but is telling him that he personally does not agree with him taking Skywalker as his Padawan, he states 'grave danger I fear in his training'. Surely fear is the path to the darkside, leading to anger, suffering etc! :lol: I think this is just a poor choice of words for the scene, at least I hope so!

[electric]

What's funny about that scene though his how mad Yoda seems and how he says Obi-Wan can't take Anakin as his apprentice, then all of a sudden he's like... oh, it's okay the council agrees. Wonder if they voted on that or something?

[Jedi Master Harrison]

It's quite subtle, I only noticed it myself today for the first time - Yoda says [can't remember the quote word for word] 'agree with you taking Skywalker as your Padawan I do not'. Then once he has said about his reservations, he then tells Obi Wan that the Council agrees to him training Anakin. So I agree with your point, the Council must have voted and Yoda would have been in the minority. Which would seem to be strange as Mace Windu also originally said 'no, the boy will not be trained' to Qui Gon.

I have often wondered how the Jedi Council did operate as in the films you only ever hear the main 3 or 4 Jedi talking and they always seem to make decisions without a significant debate.

[thepepgal]

It's quite subtle, I only noticed it myself today for the first time - Yoda says [can't remember the quote word for word] 'agree with you taking Skywalker as your Padawan I do not'. Then once he has said about his reservations, he then tells Obi Wan that the Council agrees to him training Anakin. So I agree with your point, the Council must have voted and Yoda would have been in the minority. Which would seem to be strange as Mace Windu also originally said 'no, the boy will not be trained' to Qui Gon.

I have often wondered how the Jedi Council did operate as in the films you only ever hear the main 3 or 4 Jedi talking and they always seem to make decisions without a significant debate.

Considering they can communicate by using thought using the force, not all of their conversations need to be verbal.

Anakin's display in destroying the control ship would have converted some of the doubters to allowing him to be trained. His strength in the force must have out weighed his age.

Also it should be considered that if he wasn't trained that he may have fallen to the dark side since the Sith had finally showed themselves. So the council may have decided better to have some control over what is happening with Anakin than none at all.

[Cassus Fett]

If Yoda was truly a Jedi, he would have reported sensed the dark side in Palps and exposed him long before he controlled the senate. Yoda also gets very overly sensitive whenever the dark side of the force is discussed in both OT and PT. He also started the Clone Wars when he invaded Federation territory with his clone army.

He is also a force lightning user (http://www.stardestroyer.net/ROTS/Yoda-1.jpg)

No as the darkside clouds everything he could not be too sure. He used to Clone Army to secure the saviour of the Jedi. And he cant use force lightning he was just sending it back using a jedi technique because if you look carefully he sends it behind either Dooku or Palp during one of the fights.

[Balnazzar]

"Dark side clouds everything, difficult to say." Yoda is powerful and wise but not omnipotent, you know.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

"Dark side clouds everything, difficult to say." Yoda is powerful and wise but not omnipotent, you know.

Agreed, but Yoda was certainly no Sith!

[silverbolt]

Agreed, but Yoda was certainly no Sith!

agreed he was arguably the wisest and most powerful of the jedi, sidious was a powerful sith lord who had who knows how long to perfect his use of the dark side, as far as i know sidious was a sith from the start he was not a jedi who then becomes a sith which is the way it usually goes

[Balnazzar]

I am absolutely sure that Yoda was no sith. And yes, Sidius was a darksider from his beginning.

[Fish1941]

I certainly would not call Yoda a Sith. But he has his flaws, despite being the "wisest Jedi" - a title I would certainly NOT bestow upon him. He has made too many mistakes for me to regard him in such a manner.

I don't know if I could defend Yoda's act of using the Clone Army to save the Jedi on Geonosis. He did much more than save his fellow Jedi. He initiated a battle to destroy the Separatists . . . and initiated a war in the process.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I certainly would not call Yoda a Sith. But he has his flaws, despite being the "wisest Jedi" - a title I would certainly NOT bestow upon him. He has made too many mistakes for me to regard him in such a manner.

Maybe he did become the wisest though, as he learnt from his past mistakes. Ultimately he did train the Jedi who managed to overthrow the Sith.

[Fish1941]

Maybe he did become the wisest though, as he learnt from his past mistakes. Ultimately he did train the Jedi who managed to overthrow the Sith.


I would rather accept the concept that Yoda eventually became wiser by the Imperial Trilogy. But I cannot accept him being the wisest Jedi. I believe that no such person existed.

And I don't recall Yoda ever training Anakin . . . who was the person that actually managed to overthrow the Sith in ROTJ.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I would rather accept the concept that Yoda eventually became wiser by the Imperial Trilogy. But I cannot accept him being the wisest Jedi. I believe that no such person existed.

And I don't recall Yoda ever training Anakin . . . who was the person that actually managed to overthrow the Sith in ROTJ.

My opinion is that without Luke, Anakin would never have overthrown the Sith, so my statement referred to Luke. Luke stirred the good in Anakin. But obviously it was Anakin who killed the Emperor by his actions, but my point is that he never would have taken this action had it not been for Luke's refusal to turn to the darkside, no matter how much pain he was in, thanks to Yoda's training.

[Ojres]

I certainly would not call Yoda a Sith. But he has his flaws, despite being the "wisest Jedi" - a title I would certainly NOT bestow upon him. He has made too many mistakes for me to regard him in such a manner.

I don't know if I could defend Yoda's act of using the Clone Army to save the Jedi on Geonosis. He did much more than save his fellow Jedi. He initiated a battle to destroy the Separatists . . . and initiated a war in the process. In some ways he was the wisest. I mean, he found how to live over 800 years. Immortality is a man's most prized possesion

[Balnazzar]

In some ways he was the wisest. I mean, he found how to live over 800 years. Immortality is a man's most prized possesion


That is because of the race he belongs to. But Yoda was still the wisest Jedi of his time. I am more than certain about that.

[thepepgal]

I would rather accept the concept that Yoda eventually became wiser by the Imperial Trilogy. But I cannot accept him being the wisest Jedi. I believe that no such person existed.

And I don't recall Yoda ever training Anakin . . . who was the person that actually managed to overthrow the Sith in ROTJ.

Yoda was also never seen training Obi Wan but he mentions to Luke that he was.

Yoda was seen training younglings so it can be said that at sometime Yoda would have taken a class that Anakin had to attend even though Obi Wan was his master.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Padawans and younglings didn't just have one Master, for example, Anakin was taught lightsaber duelling techniques by Cin Drallig, who he killed during his ransacking of the temple.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

A quick question that popped into my mind today. When Yoda heard Qui Gon yelling "Noooooo!" at Anakin when he was destroying the Sand People, why did he tell no other Jedi (or the Council at least) about this, until Obi-Wan after they had failed to destroy the Sith?

BTW, I am not suggesting Yoda was a Sith, though this is the title of the thread, I just didn't see the point in creating a new one about the little green fella when this was sat here not being used. :)

Also, to what extent was Qui Gon able to give Yoda information? They must have had plenty of time to converse between ROTS and ANH!

[thepepgal]

A quick question that popped into my mind today. When Yoda heard Qui Gon yelling "Noooooo!" at Anakin when he was destroying the Sand People, why did he tell no other Jedi (or the Council at least) about this, until Obi-Wan after they had failed to destroy the Sith?

BTW, I am not suggesting Yoda was a Sith, though this is the title of the thread, I just didn't see the point in creating a new one about the little green fella when this was sat here not being used. :)

Also, to what extent was Qui Gon able to give Yoda information? They must have had plenty of time to converse between ROTS and ANH!

Maybe it was the first time that Qui Gon was still grasping the ability to remain one in the force. Maybe Yoda thought it was a past voice from the attack on Tattooine.

Qui Gon must have been conversing with Yoda during the Clone Wars, since Yoda finally mentioned it to Obi Wan after the destruction of all the jedi. It must have Yoda some time to master the technique to chat to Qui Gon. There is no reason that Yoda didn't discuss it with a member or two from the council prior to discussing it with Obi Wan.

I'm sure that Yoda and Qui Gon would have had many chats during the time between Ep 3 & 4.

[Fallen One]

After seeing this thread I came across a great website that had made this pic. The website is: http://www.rabittooth.com/StarWarsWallpaper.htm He has some real nice stuff like this Darth Yoda:w00t::w00t::yoda:

[Fish1941]

Yoda was also never seen training Obi Wan but he mentions to Luke that he was.

Yoda was seen training younglings so it can be said that at sometime Yoda would have taken a class that Anakin had to attend even though Obi Wan was his master.

So what? That does not mean that Yoda had trained Anakin. As far as I know, it has not been suggested by either the movies or the EU novels that Yoda had ever trained Anakin.


My opinion is that without Luke, Anakin would never have overthrown the Sith, so my statement referred to Luke. Luke stirred the good in Anakin. But obviously it was Anakin who killed the Emperor by his actions, but my point is that he never would have taken this action had it not been for Luke's refusal to turn to the darkside, no matter how much pain he was in, thanks to Yoda's training.

And Luke would have never refused to kill Anakin if Palpatine had not opened his mouth. Luke would have never considered trying to redeem his father if the latter had not set in motion the events of TESB.

I realize that many of you love putting characters like Luke, Obi-Wan and Yoda on a pedestal, but I don't. There are more to the saga that the so-called "virtues" of these three characters.

[Darth Graves]

yoda could not have been sith, hands down.
if he had been sith, dont you think he would have trained anakin himself, to turn him to the darkside from the begining...

[Fish1941]

I agree that Yoda was not a Sith in disguise.


But like many of his fellow Jedi, he had flaws that threatened to engulf him into his own personal darkness or negativity.

[wedge]

And Luke would have never refused to kill Anakin if Palpatine had not opened his mouth.

I've always thought that, if palpatine would have just shut his mouth when luke was about to the deliver the final blow to vader he could have had his new apprentice. Wouldn't have mattered anyway tho coz the alliance would still have blown up DS2 and any sith still on board!

[Alpha-17]

That is assuming of course that an alive and well Emperor couldn't have stopped Lando and Wedge from delivering that fatal blow. We'll never know, as it didn't happen that way. But, one can wonder.....

[Fish1941]

That is assuming of course that an alive and well Emperor couldn't have stopped Lando and Wedge from delivering that fatal blow.


Not even Palpatine was that powerful. There was nothing he could have done about Lando and Wedge. It was too late. I think that too many fans tend to build him up as something close to an all-powerful being.

[Kam Solusar]

That's because HE builds himself up to be one. I always got the impression that he would say his patented "everything is proceeding as I have foreseen it" just to make the people around him scared of ever trying something.

[Alpha-17]

True, as when all else fails, BS it. Works 99% of the time. However, all I have to say is it wouldn't be that hard to stop one of those missles, or even cause something to go wrong in one of the ships. Yoda could move one, why not Palpatine?

[Kam Solusar]

It really drained Yoda, and it was right in front of him. And not moving at the time (well, except maybe a very slow downward movement in to the swamp).

[Orandhite]

Yoda was also never seen training Obi Wan but he mentions to Luke that he was.

I think I have read this post correctly...although it was in amongst posts about Yoda training Anakin.

You do actually find that Yoda trains Obi Wan at the end of ROTS as he instructs him in how to communicate with Qui Gon. (I only remember this as I am watching it now!)

:yoda:

[Orandhite]

It really drained Yoda, and it was right in front of him. And not moving at the time (well, except maybe a very slow downward movement in to the swamp).

Damn good point. Which brings me to the trailer for The Force Unleashed...which shows the apprentice bringing down a Star Destroyer...

Interesting. :)

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I think I have read this post correctly...although it was in amongst posts about Yoda training Anakin.

You do actually find that Yoda trains Obi Wan at the end of ROTS as he instructs him in how to communicate with Qui Gon. (I only remember this as I am watching it now!)

:yoda:

I think to some extent you could also argue that Yoda was training Obi-Wan in the scene in AOTC when Yoda asks the younglings why Obi-Wan cannot find Kamino in the star charts. It's a lesson that sometimes you should not look beyond the obvious.

[Orandhite]

Good memory!

And yet, the entire Jedi Order seemed to suffer from that problem with the prophecy of The Chosen One. He eventually brought balance to The Force, not when they expected him to, but he did eventually.

So they were all very short sighted.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with Sidious' opinion that it was the Jedi's arrogance that blinded them, I think it was more their 'comfort' in that they had been relatively unchallenged in their role (as far as we are led to believe, considering the films only) for 1,000 years. Perhaps they followed the prophecy too blindly without considering different interpretations.

But anyway, Yoda is still not a Sith! :wink:

[thepepgal]

Damn good point. Which brings me to the trailer for The Force Unleashed...which shows the apprentice bringing down a Star Destroyer...

Interesting. :)

To me that trailer is appears more about him stopping it from hitting him than him it bringing down. Presuming the destoryer didn't want to crash either the occupants would be trying also to slow it down by whatever means they had left. Remember at the time this game is set, Star Destroyers are used by the Empire only who Vader is part of. It wouldn't make sense for Vader's apprentice to be trying to destory it.:scratchchin:

[Fish1941]

I think to some extent you could also argue that Yoda was training Obi-Wan in the scene in AOTC when Yoda asks the younglings why Obi-Wan cannot find Kamino in the star charts. It's a lesson that sometimes you should not look beyond the obvious.


One can also gather from that scene that Yoda had trained Obi-Wan when the latter was a youngling.

[Orandhite]

I suppose in essence, you have to define what being a Sith actually is before you can specify whether you think someone is a Sith or not...

[JediBendu]

I suppose in essence, you have to define what being a Sith actually is before you can specify whether you think someone is a Sith or not...

The Dark and Light side exist simultaneously, whether you consider yourself Sith or Jedi depends which you choose embrace.

[Orandhite]

^ What if you choose to embrace a little of both? Then you would be neither?

[JediBendu]

^ What if you choose to embrace a little of both? Then you would be neither?

Isn't that like being a little bit pregnant? :p

'Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destinity' - yoda, esb

[Orandhite]

^ :chortle: Nice one! :thumbs-up: