The Callista Trilogy

[Cydon]

Discuss Children of the Jedi, Darksaber and Planet of Twilight. (my favorite is PoT)

[Blizzard]

Planet of Twilight was a romance novel. Darksaber just plain sucked.

[JediKeri]

Durga the Hutt was just plain stupid. As for Callista and Luke, I knew it wouldn't last.

[Cydon]

I had already read Hand of Thrawn Duology before them so I already knew. PoT was pretty good though, IMO.

[Darth Massacrus]

I actually like Darksaber as the best of them all. And I do love how Admiral Daala took down Callista. Too bad the two couldnt have just settled it with a catfight...:lol:

[Ripley]

Children of the Jedi is the best stand alone EU novel ever written.

[Braden Dar]

I disagree with some sentiments here. I think Barbara Hambly's work wasn't so top notch. Certainly better than anything I could do, or else I'd be writing for a living. But I preferred Darksaber to the other two. COTJ and POT seemed to repeat some of the same themes. Leia stuck on a planet. Luke stuck pretending to be someone he is not (General Lando Calrissian in COTJ and Owen Lars in POT)while being limited in his use of the Force or ability to get out of his current situation, Han trying to be there for Leia but having his own troubles, and someone using the Force as a tool of evil.
In many respects its the same as the Trilogy or other EU novels/stories, but its also different.
I am tired of many "ideas" being repeated. Superweapons and the heroes always being so easy to trap, literally or figuratively, in the story arcs. Why would Seti Ashgad need Leia alive anyways? He didn't want her to return to Coruscant ever again, so why keep her alive? He faked her disappearance so that the next in line would take over, except they made him ill too so that a successor would have to be named...causing confusion and delay. So they didn't need Leia kept alive.
And as for Luke feeling her death, wouldn't keeping her alive allow for Luke to find her and bring down the bad guys? Wouldn't they want Luke to feel her death and he could then pass it along to the Republic that she was dead and a successor was needed?
And COTJ...I didn't like most of that novel, but I won't try to lessen its credibility in the EU continuity. Callista, not a character I particularily enjoy, seeing as how she ws the transferred consciousness of a Jedi into a machine and then back into a Force-capable body that become suddenly incapable of using the Force. And that super dreadnaught Eye Of Palpatine or whatever it was called. Another example of Lucas making the Prequels and discrediting the stories made in the EU. The Prequels show us how much firepower was around when Palpatine rose to power, and a super ship like that wouldn't be needed to slag a planet. A small armada could have done the job well enough. And misappropriating a ship here and there would have been easier to hide than building one large special ship.
And another of Palpatine's former lovers and Force-using cronies is put into the mix. The beginning always weirded me out, as well.
But Darksaber, in my opinion, was much cooler. Luke and Callista did get trapped on Hoth, but they were eventually rescued.
Losing a notable General in the process of defeating the Darksaber was a twist I didn't expect, though. It added some elemant of not being able to just predict that the good guys would win and only the "extras" in the story would be lost. And the added bonus of Daala going after the Jedi's at Yavin IV was a great bit, too. I really liked the whole story of her re-rising to power and taking the power she stole from the quarreling warlords in an effort to squash her hated enemies. Only to fail again at the hands of the Jedi. Cool storyline.

[Ripley]

I disagree with some sentiments here. I think Barbara Hambly's work wasn't so top notch. Certainly better than anything I could do, or else I'd be writing for a living. But I preferred Darksaber to the other two. COTJ and POT seemed to repeat some of the same themes. Leia stuck on a planet. Luke stuck pretending to be someone he is not (General Lando Calrissian in COTJ and Owen Lars in POT)while being limited in his use of the Force or ability to get out of his current situation, Han trying to be there for Leia but having his own troubles, and someone using the Force as a tool of evil.

That is plot instead of theme. I have yet to read Planet of Twilight- I hope to get it for Christmas- but Children of the Jedi's theme is a journey into the physical and metaphorical unknown about what a Jedi is, people confronting the sins of their ancestors, and what being in love means. Plot and theme are two different things.

In many respects its the same as the Trilogy or other EU novels/stories, but its also different.

What makes Children of the Jedi different is that it is a character driven novel instead of the typical plot driven narrative common in the EU along with having a much more defined writing style.

I am tired of many "ideas" being repeated. Superweapons and the heroes always being so easy to trap, literally or figuratively, in the story arcs. Why would Seti Ashgad need Leia alive anyways? He didn't want her to return to Coruscant ever again, so why keep her alive? He faked her disappearance so that the next in line would take over, except they made him ill too so that a successor would have to be named...causing confusion and delay. So they didn't need Leia kept alive.
And as for Luke feeling her death, wouldn't keeping her alive allow for Luke to find her and bring down the bad guys? Wouldn't they want Luke to feel her death and he could then pass it along to the Republic that she was dead and a successor was needed?

I deal with that when I read Planet of Twilight.

And COTJ...I didn't like most of that novel, but I won't try to lessen its credibility in the EU continuity. Callista, not a character I particularily enjoy, seeing as how she ws the transferred consciousness of a Jedi into a machine and then back into a Force-capable body that become suddenly incapable of using the Force. And that super dreadnaught Eye Of Palpatine or whatever it was called. Another example of Lucas making the Prequels and discrediting the stories made in the EU. The Prequels show us how much firepower was around when Palpatine rose to power, and a super ship like that wouldn't be needed to slag a planet. A small armada could have done the job well enough. And misappropriating a ship here and there would have been easier to hide than building one large special ship.

Incapable of using the Force is all KJA being KJA.

Too many people fail to realise that the Eye is simply a macguffin. It is no different than the suitcase in Pulp Fiction. The Eye is a link to the past, a symbol for the insanity in Luke's life, and a stand-in for the unknown. Luke explored the literal unknown of an old ship filled with brainwashed aliens, but Luke also went into more symbolic unknowns. People tend to forget that at that point in his life Luke had never had a serious long term relationship. That was a major gap in his life considering he was thirty-one. The aliens stood in for the insanity of that standing alongside strong relationships; in this case Han/Leia and Cray/Nichos. The quickness of Callista and Luke makes sense considering Luke's situation and Callista spending thirty years on that station. The minute details does not matter due to them not being the focus of the novel.

Reading a Hambly requires a different mindset than many other EU novels. Hambly recognizes that a novel is a very different thing than a film, which many EU authors do not. Hambly also uses a somewhat harder word choice when compared to her contemporaries. I can see why some people dislike her for that, but her unique take on the EU make her a superior read than many other EU writers.

[DarthSolo]

Ripley, that is one of the most interesting approaches I've seen taken to a SW novel. And I can't say I completely disagree, as I thought I might as I ventured into your post. I've not read COTJ, but I may at some point now. Unfortunately, I will disagree with you on the point of details. When working within a continuity, the details are important. They cannot be left out. They cannot be glazed over. While I am all for those details taking a back seat to their metaphorical meaning within the story or the overarching continuity plot, in the situation of the EU, we were promised with the publication of TTT that we would have a consistent continuity. So, details are still important. Other than that, your description of COTJ intrigues me to the last. A more literary take on novels that are not generally taken so.

I've only read Darksaber of the three books metioned here. I must say, Callista always bored the hell out of me, but the thing that redeemed Darksaber for me was the surprise death. In a franchise like Star Wars, we pretty much know which characters aren't going to die. In fact, we assume pretty often that most characters we've seen in the past will survive. KJA took a bold step in Darksaber by killing someone, and I think I recall that being a well written scene, too. So, Darksaber doesn't stand very high in my book, but it isn't dreadful.

[Darth Massacrus]

you know, Admiral Daala really ought to return in a future novel or comic...

[Cydon]

I agree with Darth, and Braden Dar. Superweapons have been stopped for a while though. So thats a plus.

[DarthSolo]

you know, Admiral Daala really ought to return in a future novel or comic...
Ugh. No.

And yeah, thank goodness for no more superweapons. that is the one thing that could really ruin my opinion of LOTF, if they bring on a superweapon.

[Darth Massacrus]

But is the Darkside of the Force not the ultimate superweapon?

[JMAS]

I would honestly have to say that The Calista trilogy is the worst of EU material I've read, and I've read almost all of it.

[DarthSolo]

But is the Darkside of the Force not the ultimate superweapon?
No. You might be able to say the Force can be used as a super-weapon, but the "light" side is just as powerful as the "dark" side, if you buy into that dogma in the firt place. If the Force is used as a super-weapon, than you can say anything is a super-weapon, if used correctly and by the right person. The definition of a super-weapon, I think, is a super-structure built for the sole purpose of mass destruction or inspiring fear of mass destruction. The Force 1. was not built or created by any being that we know of (nor do we have any reason to believe it was built or created) and 2. is not strictly used for mass destruction or the power that comes with that ability. The Force is not a super-weapon.

[Darth Massacrus]

makes you wonder: what if Tarkin and Daala had had children? and one was force-sensitive? Would there be a "Children of the Sith" novel? And would Daala make another reappearance?

[DarthSolo]

Why would they be Force-sensitive? Neithe Daala nor Tarkin is Force-sensitive. Neither of them were Sith, so why the title "Children of the Sith"?

[Darth Massacrus]

but Force Sensitivity can occur at any point.

And why Sith? Well, was the Empire not lead by the Sith?

[DarthSolo]

Force-sensitivity occasionally happens randomly, but I think it would just be a cheap trick to give it to Daala and Tarkin's kid. And while the Empire was led by a Sith, the child would have no direct connection to Palpatine, Vader, or any Sith associated with the Empire, as they would likely all be dead by the time the child started training.

[Darth Massacrus]

not really, as Tarkin and Daala were "together" well before 0 BBY. And Palpatine did not die until 11 ABY, meaning that a child or so from a Tarkin/ Daala "togetherness" would have had lots of years to be made into a darksider by the Emperor. But again, pure speculation based on facts and hope...

[DarthSolo]

Palpatine died in ROTJ, 4 ABY. His clone came back for a brief stint around 11 ABY, I suppose, but that's a long stretch as to whether this child (already a long strech for existence let alone Force-sensitivity) the child would get trained by him. And 11 year old kid getting trained for a short period of time by a clone? C'mon.

[Darth Massacrus]

I know, but then again, its these entirely-possible-long-stretches that are what I'm made of...:lol:

[Cydon]

No offense, but that would make a real dumb plot....

[Ripley]

Ripley, that is one of the most interesting approaches I've seen taken to a SW novel. And I can't say I completely disagree, as I thought I might as I ventured into your post. I've not read COTJ, but I may at some point now. Unfortunately, I will disagree with you on the point of details. When working within a continuity, the details are important. They cannot be left out. They cannot be glazed over. While I am all for those details taking a back seat to their metaphorical meaning within the story or the overarching continuity plot, in the situation of the EU, we were promised with the publication of TTT that we would have a consistent continuity. So, details are still important. Other than that, your description of COTJ intrigues me to the last. A more literary take on novels that are not generally taken so.


I agree that continuity is important. It is important to the novel, but dogmatic following instead of a well written novel hampens the book.

To me I always took the Eye as more of a SSD on steroids than a true superweapon. Besides a large size and many conventional weapons there is not very many similarities to the Death Stars, Sun Crushers, Galaxy Gun, etc.

[Soontir Solo]

Darksaber was ok in my opinion. I liked it alright, but I found no pleasure in reading COTJ or POT. They both bored me too much to be honest.

[Darth Massacrus]

a lot of people seem to feel that way, but I dont. As for Darksaber, I love that book...

[Cydon]

I hate Darksaber cause they killed of Madine. Why not Luke?!?!?!??!

[Darth Massacrus]

talk to Sarah-Leia if you hate Luke...

but I wonder what would have happenned had Daala won at Yavin by bringing Knight Hammer to the base with the SD's under Pelleaon...

[Cydon]

Hurray!!!!

[Darth Massacrus]

who are the warlords that Daala executes, other than Delvardus and Harrsk and Teradoc?

[Cydon]

Don't remember. Want me to look it up?

[Darth Massacrus]

perhaps that ought to be a EU Quiz thread question. but the Empire should have assaulted Yavin 4 with all of its forces at once, rather than piecemeal....

[Cydon]

Well we don't have the details...

[Darth Massacrus]

?

[Cydon]

Maybe the rest of the fleet was tied up some where.

[Braden Dar]

I agree with both Ripley and Darth Solo in response to my first posting on the first page. Ripley has in fact looked at things in a different manner and with a new depth that is often not used in the Star Wars realm. But DS is also right in that details carry great weight.
The character's death in Darksaber. The parting-of-ways in Planet Of Twilight. Venturing into the unknown in Children Of The Jedi. Each was an important moment. But in each of these books, though not so much for me with Darksaber, there rae a great many questions left that demand some answering. There are questions as to why things are going the way they are, and why the main characters don't seem to learn from their pasts. So often, the stories revolve around a central theme of Leia becoming entangled with diplomacy when all of the signs point to stepping away from a situation or standing like they did with the Alliance. Either let them destroy themselves, or take military action to thwart an evil empire from forming.
But the story unfolds with a usual array of political traps, detectable espionage, and military build-up against the NR. Things that should be met with action in the beginning, but that action is delayed by Leia's unwillingness to take a hard stand, or by another politicians refusal to recall the recent past and allow a stand to happen.
If I were in that society, and had a vote, I'd cast out some of these fools elected to high office and vote in someone that will stand up for our defense and continued existence.
But enough of this off-topic banter...
Callista is the real focus of this thread, so I shall return to her.

I don't understand the character in many aspects. She played a role in COTJ, but again I think it was not the best book in the EU. She didn't have to become a "love interest" for Luke. She could have been left on the Eye Of Palpatine, or she could have been a teacher character for Luke's Jedi-in-training. Romantic liason could have been left out of it, though I understand that many fans probably wanted Luke to find someone to fall in love with.
Then came Darksaber. I didn't mind Daala's reappearance, or her re-attaining great power in Imperial circles. It even seemed to work out having her face off with Callista, though I refer to Callista's destroying Knight Hammer more than the face to face confrontation between the two female leads. Callista could have destroyed the warship and escaped in some type of craft...even parting ways with Luke in the process if that was the course she desired. But she and Daala had no connection beyond Luke and the Praxeum. This wasn't a matter of old rivals facing off for the last time.
POT left me with a lot of questions. Again, what happened to Beldorian and the Force-using woman from the city? (I forgot her name, by the way.) Did they die quickly when Dyzm died? A sort of no-more-vampire-means-sudden-old-age-and-death event? How much trouble was it really to return all of those crystals to the planet? How is it that no one seemed to bat an eye at Luke's statement that the crystals are living things and "want" their "families" returned? The book just didn't wrap up any loose ends out there on Nam Chorios. Did anyone ever find the destinations of the ships that Ashgad sent in premature hyperspace? Were bodies and lost loved ones ever recovered? Think of all of the lost Noghri warriors.

What DID happen?
That's the brunt of my trouble with the Callista Trilogy...

...should we make this the "Official" nomenclature for the three books featuring the once-Jedi? Let's email LFL and make it happen...

And as for the above posts about attacking Yavin IV with the whole fleet instead of "piecemeal."
Daala had a horde of SD Vics pummeling different NR worlds to help spread out the fleet of the NR. She had a heavy enough assualt fleet at Yavin IV, namely all of her ImpStars. When she showed up in the Executor-class Knight Hammer, she expected to find the battle mostly over. Instead, the Jedi at the Praxeum used the Force to propel the fleet to the outer reaches of the Yavin system, and it also happened to disable their hyperdrives at the same time. With the fleet badly damaged and limping its way back into the system, Daala took her fight to Yavin IV with her big warship. She was thwarted by the Jedi, but mainly, as stated above, Callista won the battle. Her ship was consumed by Yavin, crushed in its massive gravity well, and she managed to escape and reach her ruined fleet. The NR fleet did show up, but they weren't needed to drive off the attackers. There presence did decide the actions of the Imperial fleet, as they turned around and fled from the system as quickly as they could.
The SD Vics...I don't recall what fate befell them.
So there you have it...

[Cydon]

That was NICE! You should send it to Sue Rostini.

[bendu]

I for one am for bringing back characters from past EU. I always wondered how things would be if Callista returned. Daala could make an interesting return herself.

I know their characters weren't the best by most opinion but I always thought Lumiya was kind of dumb. Now look at the great story we're getting with the Legacy series. Perhaps another author's take on these characters might bring them to more interesting places.

The superweapon dealy almost happened with Centerpoint Station in Betrayal. But that was resolved. I think superweapon rehashes can be irritating but is it so hard to believe that they would be an reoccurring problem in wars that take place on a galactic scale? I mean in our world, wars are fought because of the illeged presence of weapons of mass destruction. America might as well be by definition the most powerful country in the world because they have all the nukes. But I'm running way off topic.

I've never read any of the "Callista Trilogy" but I do know their events well enough. So I won't comment on the books' quality themselves. I just wanted to comment on some of the topics covered. Because I'm a discussion addict.

[Cydon]

I dislike Callista very very much.

[Braden Dar]

Another problem I had with the ending of POT was that Daala suddenly is reunited with her long lost lover, Liegeus. This was a most ridiculous "plot twist" that only served to take away from the characters development over past novels and ruin an otherwise question filled climax/epilogue. What a sorry way to bring about an abrupt end to a Daala-led negotiation over what terms and conditions there would be to allow everyone to go with life in peace. She - Barbara Hambly - could have lengthened the story a few more chapters by detailing talks with Daala as to what she was demanding and what the NR and the locals were willing to concede.
Such as Daala's people being given exactly what they were after...a planet to live on away from all of the galactic trouble and without the presence of the NR.
But its merely an opinion.

[Cydon]

I agree. Liegeus was my favorite character. I wanted him to kill Dzym. Through the whole book I was hoping he would'nt die.

[Braden Dar]

I just disliked him being tied in to a Daala twist. They should have never been connected.

"Hey! I have an idea...what if everyone in a Star Wars novel finds their long last love and walks off arm in arm?"
"Gee whiz. That sounds like a great story Ward. Do you think the Beaver will like it?"

How about some real twists. Or the biggest twist of all...no twists!

[Cydon]

How about some real twists. Or the biggest twist of all...no twists!

LOL! That would be a twist! I personally would like to see more books focusing on culture and warfare. It would be a change.