From The Mind Of Tovor, a Deep Thought a Day

[Tovor]

What does the world look like through the eyes of a blind person?

A blind person knows they cannot see, yet how do they know what "seeing" is? If all they have known was a world of darkness, how can they comprehend what a world of light would reveal? How do they think other people. those with full sight, see the world around them?

How do blind people dream?

How do they imagine the appearance of things they have never had sight to verify?

Do they think in color? Might their minds perceive colors our own minds could not have imagined?

Might a person blind since birth, having suddenly gained full sight, be relieved to see the world is better than they imagined...or dissappointed?

If future science somehow invented a way for a sighted person and a blind person to see into the other's minds to share each other's visions of the world and life itself, imagine how each person would experience the other person's visual memories compared to their own.

That's all for tonight. Thank you for coming in to share a thought in my mind. Now please get out of my mind, I've got thinking to do. :scratchchin:

[Tovor]

In near death situations, many people say that their lives flashed before their eyes. If a person who spend their whole life, or at least more than half of their lives depressed with no memory of a life without depression, saw their life flash before their eyes, what would they see? Would they see their regretfull past of pain and sadness, or their unfulfilled, hopeless future?

[Lara]

I wouldn't know. I think I've wasted my life and I'm caught in a vicious cycle.

[Justin]

Originally posted by Tovor@Apr 21 2003, 02:59 AM
In near death situations, many people say that their lives flashed before their eyes. If a person who spend their whole life, or at least more than half of their lives depressed with no memory of a life without depression, saw their life flash before their eyes, what would they see? Would they see their regretfull past of pain and sadness, or their unfulfilled, hopeless future?
Tovor, no matter what kind of depression someone suffers, and no matter how long they suffer it, there will always be a few nice memories of something that made them happy at one time or another.

I also think that when people say their life "flashed before their eyes" (which isn't something I really buy into...I think people say it because they've heard other people say it and they think that's the thing to say), they're just saying in that split second they examined their life and what it meant.

So even if they had a generally crappy life with a lot of crappy memories, they would still examine it and what they've done over the years. The conclusions they draw might be different, though.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Justin@Apr 20 2003, 07:19 PM
I also think that when people say their life "flashed before their eyes" (which isn't something I really buy into...I think people say it because they've heard other people say it and they think that's the thing to say), they're just saying in that split second they examined their life and what it meant.
I think that's what those people mean by that Justin.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Tovor@Mar 2 2003, 09:01 PM
How do blind people dream?
In brail. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Blizzard]

When your life flashes in front of your eyes you see it all, happiness, regret, horror... no matter how much you think you have not done of accomplished anything, you HAVE! It's just that we always remember the bad things and the good things get forgotten...

[nerfer]

<span style="color:c1007e"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms"> To know oneself one must first say hello....

I spent a lot of my younger days depressed and if I had not realised the futility of it I probably still would. But then I think my depression had a lot to do with my situation. Once I made the decision not to let my situation rule me I was a lot better. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

I've been bouncy ever since. Sure I have my days, but for the most part I'm a pretty happy person.</span></span> style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Tovor]

Oh my God, I have realized a potentially inevitable problem facing us in our future. Think about all the billions of tons of garbage dumped in trash dumps around the world every year. Think about all the plastic trash bags you seal closed with bubbles of air still inside and throw out. Think about all the empty glass jars and empty plastic soda bottles you throw away every day, every week, every month, every year, through your whole lifetime, but not before screwing closed the airtight lid! Do you realize how much of our air we are throwing away in tightly closed plastic bags and sealed plastic and glass bottles? Good God what are we doing?

That was my deep thought for the day. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif Thank you. You may go back to your business now. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

[Darth_Badman]

Two words: Mind Control

[Tovor]

What did that have to do with my deep thoughts? That I should control them better? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/satisfied.gif

[Trilogist]

something about keeping the air bottled up inside?

[Tovor]

I didn't fart, if that was what he was referring to! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Trilogist]

*sniff*

Well somebody cut the cheese. Perhaps it was Darth Flatulous.

[Tovor]

A student is graded based on how well he does on a project...as compared to what?

This is a hypothetical, and is in no way intended to reflect on a particular student or grade point average.

One student who worked his hardest gets an A+.
A second student who was born a genuis gets an A+ without even trying.
A third student who doesn't try as hard as the first one gets a C+
A fourth student whose brain sinapses don't fire as quickly as the genuis student's sinapses do cares a great deal, tries his very hardest and gives all that he has mentally and intellectually, and gets a C or C- .

In the above set of examples, the 3rd student worked as hard or harder than the 2nd student, and the 4th tried as hard as the 1st. So were all of their grades accurate as compared to their abilities, or to their efforts, or to a level of comparison that certain kids simply can't reach?

That was my thought for the day.

[Leia]

air is a renewable resource

[Trilogist]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> student is graded based on how well he does on a project...as compared to what? [/b][/quote]

As compared to perfection ... or 100%. I'm talking about *gasp* a fixed standard of accomplishment. Of course it is going to be subjective, to a greater or lesser degree, on the judgment of the teacher. But you can't grade based on effort -- and I don't mean to sound coldhearted about this -- because it is the end result that matters, not how hard you tried. No curves!

[Tovor]

Not to make it a debate, but aren't all the contestants of the Special Olympics winners for trying their best?

[Trilogist]

Well I was just analyzing the idea; no emotion was being considered. So maybe it was a coldhearted thought. I was just considering a grade as a pure measure of accomplishment, not a tool for self-esteem issues. So maybe you have a point there.

So is a grade something that is given and not earned, then?

[Tovor]

I didn't mean for it to be an emotional factor, and the Special Olympics was only a small comparison and not really related to the deep thought I posted. Also, I am not saying that my deep thought was necessarily one that I believed strongly in or would fight for.

I don't think a grade is given rather than being earned, not entirely. Again, this was merely a thought that crossed my mind today, not one I put a lot of pondering into. But is a grade based on result or effort? If the kid capable of earning an A+ gives everything he has, he is awarded the A+. But if the other kid with lesser cognitive abilities gives everything he has and is awarded the C-, hasn't he given the same amount of effort as the A+ capable student?

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Tovor@Oct 4 2003, 05:30 AM


I don't think a grade is given rather than being earned, not entirely. Again, this was merely a thought that crossed my mind today, not one I put a lot of pondering into. But is a grade based on result or effort? If the kid capable of earning an A+ gives everything he has, he is awarded the A+. But if the other kid with lesser cognitive abilities gives everything he has and is awarded the C-, hasn't he given the same amount of effort as the A+ capable student?

In junior high schools here you get two grands in every subject on reports.

One for standard/achevement and the other graded for the effort you put in. (As judged by the teacher.)

[Leia]

I only got one grade in Junior high. I got two grades in elementary school. We didn't even have 'F's in elementary school style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif It was 'U' instead; evidently receiving an F would have been too much for our fragile psyches. Tovor, about giving a C- student and A for doing his best well, you can't do that. If all the morons were getting A's all the time because they tried so hard there would be no basis for weeding them out of college selection or whatever. Personally I think grades are kind of stupid. I just read this essay where the author said that teachers should teach, and the colleges and professions should test applicants to see if they're good enough. Sounds good in theory, but in practicality it probably wouldn't work style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Tovor]

Badly:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>In junior high schools here you get two grands in every subject on reports.
One for standard/achevement and the other graded for the effort you put in. (As judged by the teacher.)
[/b][/quote]
That seems fair enough. Accuracy as well as effort should be a factor in the grading. I do not recall if any of my classes were graded in that fashion.

Leia:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If all the morons were getting A's all the time because they tried so hard there would be no basis for weeding them out of college selection or whatever. Personally I think grades are kind of stupid. I just read this essay where the author said that teachers should teach, and the colleges and professions should test applicants to see if they're good enough. Sounds good in theory, but in practicality it probably wouldn't work.[/b][/quote]
I agree, it would be too difficult to do. The nation's education system and the nation itself as well as the world, couldn't function well in selection and promotion of workers if each one had their own particular grading system for their results going through schools. Like I said, it was only a thought I had, not an ideal.

And thus endeth that thought of the day prior to today. But I will close that one with a message I recieved in my email box via MountainWings.com, an inspirational website who sends me interesting letters every day. Some messages are meant to be inspiring, some meant to be funny, some meant to just make you go "Hmmmmm.... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif ".

This story, which will be repeated by memory and will by no means be word for word, is not a joke. It does not have a punchline. It is not meant to be funny.
A college philosophy professor gave his class a project to do in class. He picked up his chair and put it atop his desk in front of the class. Then he announced that he would give a solid A+ to whomever could prove in their essay that the chair did not exist. All of the students began frantically scratching their pencils on their papers, trying to put into thorough conclusions their basis for the chair on the desk not really being there.

For a long time each one wrote, line after line, paragraph after paragraph, page after page. All except one student, who was done writing even before the others completed their first paragraphs. It proved a distraction to several other students who noticed the quickness of that one student's efforts, and they wondered how he could have been finished so fast, how he could possibly have proven his case in such a small measure of words. Then time was up, and all papers were handed in for grading.

When all was said and done, only one student in the class got the A+ for proving the chair did not exist. It was the student who had spent the least amount of time writing, who had written only two words on his paper:





What chair?






Once again, back to Leia:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If all the morons were getting A's all the time because they tried so hard there would be no basis for weeding them out of college selection [/b][/quote]
If the morons were given A's, then more Rons would have gotten A's and this Ron wouldn't have dropped out of college my first try at it. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Tovor]

With that one behind me, stay tuned to this channel for today's deep thought of the day from Tovor. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Javen]

Originally posted by Tovor@Apr 20 2003, 09:59 PM
In near death situations, many people say that their lives flashed before their eyes. If a person who spend their whole life, or at least more than half of their lives depressed with no memory of a life without depression, saw their life flash before their eyes, what would they see? Would they see their regretfull past of pain and sadness, or their unfulfilled, hopeless future?
This an old post but I have a comment. What exactly is near death? That is like saying half full or half empty. You are either dead or alive. There is no such thing as in between.

I do believe people do see regrets if they have died and came back to life or revived for one reason which I won't discuss in here because it isn't the thread for it.

[Tovor]

For some people, the signals take months at a time to travel from the mind to the hand to the keyboard. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

For me, "near death" could mean having a gun pointed at your head during a robbery, standing frozen in place as an out of control truck barrels down on you, drowning and struggling to get your head out of the water, being in a violent car crash and being severely injured, ect... Anything where you are flooded with panic and feel that your life is about to end. Sure it could be said that you are just as near life since there is still a chance you won't die, but for many people "near death" means being in a predicament where the chance of dying is too close and too quick for comfort.

[Trilogist]

Right. Near death, as in almost time to die. Not half dead. That is different. It isn't a quantitative measure of how dead you are, but more of a temporal description of how soon it will take place.

Remember, we all die. It's just a matter of when.

[Darth_Badman]

Wow, I have to tell you I put myself in danger pretty much whenever I go to work so it's kinda become second nature to face it. It's always there lurking like a ghost and you just never know when or if it's going to come for you. While what I face is not nothing compared to what some of my other colleagues face, it's still there. So mortality is not an issue really it's more of a fact of life, and you know that even when your off your number could be called so I don't worry about it. I've had guns pointed at my head and I've been threatened plenty of times...it's just a fact of life nowadays.

[Tovor]

Holy crazy job, Badman, what do you do for a living that you face death every day?

I also had a gun pointed at my head once while at work, by a trouble making customer who had an ego problem and was trying to scare me. I was too young and stupid to be scared.

[Lara]

Originally posted by Leia@Oct 4 2003, 12:21 PM
I only got one grade in Junior high. I got two grades in elementary school. We didn't even have 'F's in elementary school style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif It was 'U' instead; evidently receiving an F would have been too much for our fragile psyches. Tovor, about giving a C- student and A for doing his best well, you can't do that. If all the morons were getting A's all the time because they tried so hard there would be no basis for weeding them out of college selection or whatever. Personally I think grades are kind of stupid. I just read this essay where the author said that teachers should teach, and the colleges and professions should test applicants to see if they're good enough. Sounds good in theory, but in practicality it probably wouldn't work style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif
They weed out. Teachers notice if you're trying or if you're slacking, they also notice if you've imrpoved. The effort grade is a type of motivation (I had that in my school) but it really doesn't change you're actual grade that much because it doesn't weigh as much.

[Tovor]

My deep thought for the day:

I rarely talk on IM or ICQ and don't look to make chat friends all too often. So when I do make an effort to be someone's friend and be a caring friend to that person, and then that person goes about ignoring me and avoiding me and logs off IM when I send a message, and acts like nothing I gave and offered in the form of friendship and trust mattered, it reminds me of why I prefer to be alone and not have friends. Maybe I'm acting childish and oversensitive, but this nags at me. That is my deep thought for the day.

[Lara]

Who was ignoring you, Tov?

[Tovor]

Someone I must call "Anonymous". style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Darth_Badman]

Chances are they may have been busy doing something else, you should probably cut them some slack since not everyone feels like being 100% friendly all the time. I think it's a little immature to be pouting about it and as far you know they might have had trouble with their messenger. Even better, if they don't respond then don't waste time talking to them...your friendship could be far more valuable with someone who wants it.

[Trilogist]

Or Anonymous could have a really crappy 56K service that bites like mine does.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think it's a little immature to be pouting about it [/b][/quote]
Gee...thanks...not.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Even better, if they don't respond then don't waste time talking to them...your friendship could be far more valuable with someone who wants it. [/b][/quote]
You have a good point there. I was just under the impression that my friendship was worth more to this person.

[Gazelle]

Tovor, for what it's worth, your G rated movie thread is the funniest thing I have read for ages (especially the Owen and Beru bits) and I have been literally trying to quieten down my laughing so as not to disturb my neighbours.

Thank you. Thank you.

(My deep thought is I think the Star Wars movies are too violent)

[Tovor]

You're welcome, Gazelle. I had forgotten about that thread until I came across it today while looking for something else. I'm glad you got a kick out of it, and tell your neighbors I'm sorry about the noise. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[goodwije]

I am saddened when you say you perfer not to have friends. Friends are the most important relationships i have ever had. My partner is my best friend, i couldn't imagine it another way, and other friends are what keep me going and keep me strong. What is important here is that OF COURSE we have misunderstandings, and arguments, that is the nature of relationships. My suggestion would be to talk to your friend tell him/her that when you sign off when i am trying to get to you it hurts my feelings. Maybe they did not realize how important it was to you. Communicating your honest and true feelings are not the only way to make friends but the only way to keep your friendships strong and true.

[Darth_Badman]

I don't see why there is a problem.

[Mystik_Haze]

<span style="color:purple">what I am about to say isn't going to be nice and if anyone wants to be ban me do it after this post, because I ain't going to sit here and listen to this bullhonkey.

Tovor I told you in a PM on GS that I didn't mean to ignore you that one day. I've been really busy and I dont get on Yahoo as much any more, So Sorry!! The other day when I finally did have it on my grandparents came over to bring me something. I left the computer on cause I thought they werent going to be here long, but they brought my little niece and it ended up being a 3 hour affair. Then Yesterday my cousins Carrie and Bryan came over cause Carrie is pregnant and she wanted to visit, I then TOO left on my Yahoo cause I thought they were going to leave quickly.. but when Carrie comes over, you can't get rid of her loudmouth and they were here longer than expected. I've had a lot of problems in REAL life lately.. and I'm having a hard time.

I should'nt have to explain all this to you or anyone especially out in public like this but you never replyd to my PM and instead started making POSTS about it making me "anonymous"

If Im busy Im busy. If I dont answer you .. MAYBE that means I am not at my computer. No Biggie!! If I wanted to get rid of you and not talk to you I'd tell you STRAIGHT out, Go away and have I done that? NO.

So please. QUIT making this show, those ridiculous posts about me ignoring you and how you are this "victim". You're amalgumating this whole situation out of nothing making quick assumptions.

Im not sure I want to be friends with someone that is going to come to conclusions like that.. Only a friend would put me in good faith and assume maybe something else is going on in my life.

Thanks and sorry it had to come to this</span>

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Mystik_Haze@Oct 7 2003, 01:51 AM
<span style="color:purple">what I am about to say isn't going to be nice and if anyone wants to be ban me do it after this post, because I ain't going to sit here and listen to this bullhonkey.
</span>
Mystik, no one would ban you for saying how you feel. It's not like you flamed me or used foul language, although some might think bullhonkey is offensive.

[Mystik_Haze]

<span style="color:purple">I dont see how it could be, what other way could it be taken besides Bullhonkey.. its meaning is BullSh*^.. So I hope saying the word the way my grandma would, doesen't offend anyone.. cause it sure doesent offend grandpa. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif</span>

[Tovor]

Here's my new deep thought of the day:
I've heard of "cow cookies", "bull bagels", and horse pucks", but how does one equate "horsehonkey" with bulls**T? I could see horsehockey, because it would go along with horse pucks, but horsehonkey sounds like a white dude who loves horses (white guy=honkey). This morning I have learned something new from the land of Nevada, that is a whole new meaning for horsehonkey. That is my deep thought of the morning. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

[Tovor]

goodwije, thanks for your post. What you said about friendship is meaningful and true,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Communicating your honest and true feelings are not the only way to make friends but the only way to keep your friendships strong and true. [/b][/quote]
but as for the above quote, sometimes my honest and true feelings are what get me into trouble! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Gazelle]

Originally posted by Mystik_Haze@Oct 7 2003, 06:51 AM
<span style="color:purple">If Im busy Im busy. If I dont answer you .. MAYBE that means I am not at my computer. No Biggie!!* If I wanted to get rid of you and not talk to you I'd tell you STRAIGHT out, Go away and have I done that? NO.</span>
Absolutely. There is nothing worse than being in the dock, having to justify friendship, feeling that you've been given marks out of ten according to how much attention you've shown. Sucks!

But don't be too hard on Tovor - he's hurting and it comes out like this. Tovor, I read the story about your mom and I want to salute her courage, and yours. You've all had to be so brave. Please keep us updated on her progress. I look forward to hearing about her full and total recovery. The worst is over now. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Lara]

Oh, I'm gonna love this.....

Tov, I told you so, I told you so, I told you so! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif I guess I was a bad influence on you. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

Mystik, Tov is really a sweet guy, I just don't know what got into him, but he's a good friend. Trust me, I've known him for 4 years.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Mystik_Haze@Oct 7 2003, 06:51 AM

Im not sure I want to be friends with someone that is going to come to conclusions like that..

I agree entirely with you about Tovor coming to conclusions. A while ago he came to the conclusion that the prequels are quite good, and I've been trying to shake him out of that one ever since.

He still hangs round the backyard though, even when I let the dogs out.


PS One small request, my name in the real world is Andrew Bullhonkey - and I'd like you all to stop making fun of it please.

[Javen]

Originally posted by Darth Badly@Oct 7 2003, 09:51 AM
I agree entirely with you about Tovor coming to conclusions. A while ago he came to the conclusion that the prequels are quite good, and I've been trying to shake him out of that one ever since.


And Tovor's conclusion is quite right.

[Darth_Badman]

I have my own thoughts and opinions that I will keep to myself but I guess everything is all cool now.....

[Tovor]

That remains to be seen, but I can imagine what your opinions are.

[Javen]

Want to hear my deep thoughts? Listen real close. Still listening?

Keep listening, they are deep. You will feel better soon after you are enlightened by my deep thoughts. You're getting there, don't give up.

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Gazelle+Oct 7 2003, 05:49 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gazelle @ Oct 7 2003, 05:49 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mystik_Haze@Oct 7 2003, 06:51 AM
<span style="color:purple">If Im busy Im busy. If I dont answer you .. MAYBE that means I am not at my computer. No Biggie!!* If I wanted to get rid of you and not talk to you I'd tell you STRAIGHT out, Go away and have I done that? NO.</span>
Absolutely. There is nothing worse than being in the dock, having to justify friendship, feeling that you've been given marks out of ten according to how much attention you've shown. Sucks!

But don't be too hard on Tovor - he's hurting and it comes out like this. Tovor, I read the story about your mom and I want to salute her courage, and yours. You've all had to be so brave. Please keep us updated on her progress. I look forward to hearing about her full and total recovery. The worst is over now. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif [/b][/quote]
Thanks Gazelle, I appreciate that message. Things are getting bad again, though. Her legs are swelling up again and hurting her again and making it hard for her to walk again. It began a few days ago and it's getting worse. In the words of our favorite protocol droid, "Will this never end?"

Well, this discussion subject from yesterday should end now. I feel like I overreacted like an oversensitive little school girl. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif And yes, Lara, maybe I did pick that up from you. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif LOL.

For what it's worth, Mandy, I'm sorry I reacted like I did. Maybe my situations in REAL life are clouding my judgements and made me react in an un-Tovor-like fashion. Although, making mistakes is definately a Tovorish fashion, which makes me mistakenly fashionably Tovorish. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

Oy vey, where do I hide my head now? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

And to those who said kind things about me, your checks are in the mail, honest. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Tovor]

So what is today's deep thought of the day? Since I still can't hear Javen's ultra deep thought (which might be lost in his deep head. In other words, empty! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif ), and no on ever replied to this one from the beginning, today's deep thought is my original deep thought, which was:

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

What does the world look like through the eyes of a blind person?

A blind person knows they cannot see, yet how do they know what "seeing" is? If all they have known was a world of darkness, how can they comprehend what a world of light would reveal? How do they think other people. those with full sight, see the world around them?

How do blind people dream?

How do they imagine the appearance of things they have never had sight to verify?

Do they think in color? Might their minds perceive colors our own minds could not have imagined?

Might a person blind since birth, having suddenly gained full sight, be relieved to see the world is better than they imagined...or dissappointed?

If future science somehow invented a way for a sighted person and a blind person to see into the other's minds to share each other's visions of the world and life itself, imagine how each person would experience the other person's visual memories compared to their own.

[Javen]

Originally posted by Tovor@Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM
What does the world look like through the eyes of a blind person?

A blind person knows they cannot see, yet how do they know what "seeing" is? If all they have known was a world of darkness, how can they comprehend what a world of light would reveal? How do they think other people. those with full sight, see the world around them?

How do blind people dream?

How do they imagine the appearance of things they have never had sight to verify?

Do they think in color? Might their minds perceive colors our own minds could not have imagined?

Might a person blind since birth, having suddenly gained full sight, be relieved to see the world is better than they imagined...or dissappointed?

If future science somehow invented a way for a sighted person and a blind person to see into the other's minds to share each other's visions of the world and life itself, imagine how each person would experience the other person's visual memories compared to their own.
The world through a blind person looks like images. Imagination and hearing seems to be a strong point if that person hasn't felt sorry for themselves.

We all can project images, even blind people. Images of themselves and other people around them by what they have heard. Would the image be right? I'm not sure, but what I mean by image is the way they portray people. Attitudes and things like that.

As for dreaming...same way images. Things they ahve never seen can only be shown by what someone tells them, then they have to see it by faith because that is the only way they will see.

I think a blind person that has recovered would be estatic to see and defnitley not disappointed. I know I wouldn't be. I would want to see everything, the water I heard run, the cars, the people I talked to.

As for the last one, I believe if a person was blind for a day or two, they would find just how much of the people and things they took for granted in life. I actually can use this as an example because this is how I view the world on the way to work. Everyone is on their way to work every morning not caring about anyone except their selves. It is to me as if they are blind to the people around them, unless you slow them up they honk thier horn.

Well a blind person is the oposite of a sighted person. They have no choice but to listen to the world that surrounds them. They have no choice but to walk and put their trust in someone they may or may not know.

[Tovor]

Sometimes, Javen, I have awoken from dreams I had trouble remembering. I couldn't recall the dream itself, yet I had vague images of something or set of things I saw, that I knew were from the dream but could not form a shape or color to the images to see what they were. Other times I've awoken with clear as crystal memories of what I saw in my dreams. But I wonder if the vague, hard to distinguish images are some of what a blind person attributes to the objects he touches, hears, or is told about. In other words, I wonder if the images he creates to identify what he knows is around him, are crystal clear or vague and hard to define.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>As for the last one, I believe if a person was blind for a day or two, they would find just how much of the people and things they took for granted in life.[/b][/quote]
I so agree. Have you watched M.A.S.H.? In one episode Hawkeye Pierce was blinded by an explosion, and they didn't know if it was temporary or permanant. Pierce wanted to go back to work and assist regardless of his blindness. At the operating table where the other surgeons were stitching the insides of a severely wounded soldier, Hawkeye sensed that the perforated bowel was not fully stitched, by sense of smell. No other doctor detected it by smell, or saw the loose stitch by sight. In another, non-medical instance, it was raining and Hawkeye noted that the rain hitting the ground sounded like sizzling steak on a grill. He also was able to hear distant incoming helicopters before anyone else could (Radar was good at doing that, though he wasn't blind), and realized that without his sight all of his other senses had been highly enhanced to compensate. So I agree with what you said for I have considered it as well. From a certain point of view, a blind person might be seeing more of the world than we ever can. Like I said, from a certain point of view.

[Whitesaber]

Deep thought: Uh... what does it feel like to be dead? Does it feel like nothing or something more emptier than that?

[Tovor]

*Ahem* This is my personal deep thought thread. No other deep thoughts are permitted, unless they pertain to my deep thought. In here I discourage deep thinking on an individual basis because I vainly want people to respond to my deep thoughts. See that? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/satisfied.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Javen]

Originally posted by Whitesaber@Oct 7 2003, 11:54 AM
Deep thought: Uh... what does it feel like to be dead? Does it feel like nothing or something more emptier than that?
Since I'm not dead I wouldn't know. But I'm not scared to die that is if it's a sudden death. I wouldn't want pain before I died either. All I know I know is I will leave this body when I die. And once again I won't explain any further because it's not the thread for it.

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The world through a blind person looks like images. Imagination and hearing seems to be a strong point if that person hasn't felt sorry for themselves. [/b][/quote]
Imagine having a blind person work for ILM or any sci-fi special effects company, designing space ships and aliens. They would surely come up with shapes and styles we could possibly never imagine. I would be interested to see drawings of everyday objects made by blind people. Whether you can draw or not, try drawing something with your eyes closed and then look to see how close it is to another you drew with your eyes open. I wonder how close or different a drawing made by a blind person, and by a sighted person with his eyes closed, would be to each other, of the same subject.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>We all can project images, even blind people. Images of themselves and other people around them by what they have heard. Would the image be right? I'm not sure, but what I mean by image is the way they portray people. Attitudes and things like that. [/b][/quote]
Have you heard about people who say they hear in colors? People with full sight, I refer to. I also see numbers in colors. 2 is white, 4 is blue, 7 is red, 5 is brown, 9 is a strange, dark neon green, 11 is an off white. I do not know why I imagine these colors when I see or think about these numbers. Equally strange or stranger (this is not a joke) is that I attribute personalities to the letters of the alphabet and how they relate to the letter before and after them. So by that I can easily imagine how a blind person attributes certain images to the people around them and what they hear around them, as you said.

[Tovor]

Javen, I've added to my post, so reread it please. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Javen]

Originally posted by Tovor@Oct 7 2003, 12:09 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The world through a blind person looks like images. Imagination and hearing seems to be a strong point if that person hasn't felt sorry for themselves.
Imagine having a blind person work for ILM or any sci-fi special effects company, designing space ships and aliens. They would surely come up with shapes and styles we could possibly never imagine. I would be interested to see drawings of everyday objects made by blind people. Whether you can draw or not, try drawing something with your eyes closed and then look to see how close it is to another you drew with your eyes open. I wonder how close or different a drawing made by a blind person, and by a sighted person with his eyes closed, would be to each other, of the same subject.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>We all can project images, even blind people. Images of themselves and other people around them by what they have heard. Would the image be right? I'm not sure, but what I mean by image is the way they portray people. Attitudes and things like that. [/b][/quote]
Have you heard about people who say they hear in colors? People with full sight, I refer to. I also see numbers in colors. 2 is white, 4 is blue, 7 is red, 5 is brown, 9 is a strange, dark neon green, 11 is an off white. I so not know why I imagine these colors when I see or think about these numbers. Equally strange or stranger (this is not a joke) is that I attribute personalities to the letters of the alphabet and how they relate to the letter before and after them. So by that I can easily imagine how a blind person attributes certain images to the people around them and what they hear around them, as you said. [/b][/quote]
I have no doubts a blind person can draw. I myself would be interested in the same thing as you Tovor, to see what a blind person could come up with and I bet there are blind people who do. We just don't hear about it much.

As for relating numbers and letters to colors. I believe that I sorta do it myself. I love the color blue and the numbers 2 and 22 and I associate them with the color blue. In case you're wondering 2 is the month I was born and 22 is the date I was born on. And when you think of Februrary you think of red right? Not me I think blue.

[Tovor]

Oh, yeah, me too! I also see colors for months. But February is definately not red.

[Trilogist]

Originally posted by Whitesaber@Oct 7 2003, 10:54 AM
Deep thought: Uh... what does it feel like to be dead? Does it feel like nothing or something more emptier than that?
You know how your foot feels when it falls asleep? That's kind of how it feels like, except with a little less tingling.

[QuigonWindu]

Originally posted by Tovor@Oct 7 2003, 01:29 PM
Oh, yeah, me too! I also see colors for months. But February is definately not red.
<span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:purple">Valentines day is in February. Hearts are associated with Valentine's day. And hearts are red. I see the connection style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif </span></span>

[Tovor]

Good point, I should have made the connection. But to me February is a winter month so in my head it's a lighter color. Not snow white, but off-white. July is red. August is yellow. November is blue. It's wierd.

Lets not get blind-sided from our blind discussion, see what I mean?

[Tovor]

Mr. Badly:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>PS One small request, my name in the real world is Andrew Bullhonkey - and I'd like you all to stop making fun of it please. [/b][/quote]
I should have known you were a Bullhonkey! You always seemed like one! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[QuigonWindu]

<span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:purple">January-blue
February-red
March-
April-pink
May-sky blue
June-
July-green
August-purple
September-yellow
October-orange
November-
December-white</span></span>

[Darth Badly]

I too am having many deep thoughts, be assured of this chums and pals.

[flo fett]

February always seemed like a pale kind of yellow to me. Quite a fragile shade.
November, my fave month is a deep velvety blue. As is the number 7.

[Tovor]

Fascinating. So I am not the only one who percieves colors relating to months, numbers, ect. We are all so different, and so much alike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>How do they imagine the appearance of things they have never had sight to verify?

Do they think in color? Might their minds perceive colors our own minds could not have imagined?

Might a person blind since birth, having suddenly gained full sight, be relieved to see the world is better than they imagined...or dissappointed?[/b][/quote]
I want to make a clarification regarding the above quote. What I actually meant by the last part was, would they be relieved to see that the world is better than they imagined, or dissappointed that it was not as visually exciting as they had imagined?

[Darth_Badman]

That's a good one...I wonder that too. I think that a person who has been blind all their life would have the same feeling we do. Neither extreme awe nor disappointment. The first thing a blind person might see may be a beautiful sunrise, or it may be a terrible storm. But then, the sun has always risen and the storms have always raged. The only difference is that now not only do they experience the sun's warmth, but now they see the rays. While it's a world they have never seen, it's still one they've always experienced.

[Tovor]

I prefer to think awe. Imagine, not knowing what color the sky is, or what clouds look like, or not knowing what a multi-layered object in sunlight with shadows across the layers and reflections looks like, and then seeing that. Unless he or she had a fairly creative imagination while blind, in which they may have imagined something even more beautiful, I could imagine how awed they'd be to see it in "real-vision".

I now have an extension to that deep thought. First let me bring up how our desires are influenced by our memories or understanding of what we are seeing. We see a photograph of our favorite food and we crave it or admire how tasty it looks in the photo, based on our memories of what it tastes like...or, our memories of similar foods if we hadn't tasted that particular food before. Okay, here is the added deep thought:
A blind person, lets say a woman just to narrow it down, regains her sight. Then she sees a magazine photo or TV commercial of a food she has eaten countless times in her life and enjoyed. Will she salivate, in a manner of speaking, if:
A) She is told that the item she is seeing is the food she always enjoyed...
B) She is not told, and is given no hints that she has ever eaten the food she is seeing in the image...
C) She is not told even that the image is a food item at all. Would she recognize it as a food item if given no indication of that, and would she recognize it as something she has eaten based on her visions of what she held and chewed while blind?

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>While it's a world they have never seen, it's still one they've always experienced. [/b][/quote]
I like that line. It's almost poetic. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Darth_Badman]

Thanks, I thought it up all my self....I can be pretty philosophic.

[Tovor]

An update on a prior discussed subject, since it was embarrasing and we didn't give a clear sign of how it ended. I want to say this here to inform, but please do not reply to it. Mandy and I are still friends. She was not rudely ignoring me and I was not stalking her. Both of our systems are messed up (mine no longer flashes when I get a message, even though I set it to flash) and she couldn't see me or my messages when I sent them. So of course I thought she was ignoring me. She was wondering, "What is he talking about? I haven't gotten anything from him?" and I was thinking "I know she is online, and I'm talking to her, why doesn't she acknowledge me?" So I got all wierd about it and she had second thoughts about my rational and sanity (c'mon, hasn't everone wondered about that at least once? LOL). But now all is cool and harmonious, and last night she and I chatted for a few hours and had several laughs. Which goes without saying, as I can be rather funny at times. Tee hee! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif

So all is cool, and Tovor can be wacko once in a while.


So, moving along...here is my deep thought of the day:
Why are some people afraid of blood, or seeing their own blood? Why do some people scream or faint when they see a large amount of blood? Why does a person react in shock to seeing:
A) A large amount of blood coming from their own body...
B) Even a small amount of blood coming from their own body...
C) Blood that came from them which in no way indicates a life-threatening injury?

What is the aversion to seeing blood? Is it a psychological fear, based on the self-preserving fear that your life is slipping from you, even though it may not be a large amount of blood and your injuries are not life threatening? Why the repulsion at the sight of blood? Why the fear? It is only a liquid, a red liquid. A few years ago I was in a minor fender bender, my fault, in which I hit someone from behind at a red light, at about 10 miles per hour. My air bag deployed and the rush of escaping gasses shredded the skin off of my right arm, leaving a wound several inches long and wide. But because of the speed in which it happened, I had not felt a thing. I didn't even know about my arm until the woman I hit freaked out after I got out of the car. She said "Oh my God, your arm!" and she was visibly shaken. I looked down and the blood was dripping down my arm and hand, and I still did not feel any pain or get nervous in any way. But the woman was visibly uneasy, even though I was walking and coherent and obviously not seriously injured.

Then, the summer of 2002, I clipped off the tip of my finger in the negative cutter in my photo lab when I was rushing to package an order for a customer. It hurt and it bled continuously. I tried stemming the flow under water and with bandages but it kept pouring out blood. I was amazed that so much blood could come from such a small area. It was actually just the tip of skin at the end of my left pointer finger, leaving a dug-in hole a few milimeters wide and long, but it kept bleeding. The assistant store manager nearly fainted and started to panic, rushing me to get to the hospital ER. I thought the situation was amazing and hard to believe, all that blood from such a small area, but I wanted to stop the blood and get back to work since I had a pile waiting for me (including the horrified woman whose negatives I was cutting when I pushed the neg too far under the blade with my finger. When I gave her her package with the sleeved negs inside I told her that if she found any of my finger in her bag it was because I always put a part of me into my work. Seriously, no joke.). But my point is, my life was not in danger, yet the assistant manager was going into a panic over my injury, and her fright increased every time she caught sight of my blood. Why the subconsious-induced fright; and is it indeed due to subconscious fears?

I have a friend, a lady, who so detests and fears the sight of blood that her monthly flow is terrifying for her. She has vomitted and even fainted upon seeing her own blood during a time every women experiences every month.

But why the fear I wonder? Why the detest, I wonder? Why the shock and aversion to it? It is only a liquid, a life flowing liquid of course, but still just a liquid and a color. Yet some people get light headed and anxious just having their blood drawn, and then get nervous upon seeing their blood in a sealed tube in the medical tech's hand. Some people are more grossed out by seeing or thinking of blood than of what they flush down the toilet. Go figure.

This has been my deep thought of the day.

[flo fett]

I have no idea why some people feel like that. I'm a first aider because it's never bothered me. I can keep calm when someone is gushing all over the floor and I realised there was a shortage of people like that. I have cut my own skin deliberately before (an experiment, see the thread about secrets if you havent already seen it) and the blood never bothered me, but I have a friend like yours Tov who also can't deal with her periods. She takes the contraceptive pill constantly so that she no longer has a period at all. Bizarre. ???

[Tovor]

You're the only person to respond to my deep thought this day, Flo. You're the only one who is interested in my mind. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[Justin]

Keira Knightley will be my wife.

[Miasmo]

Many people see blood as life. When they see life leaving a person right before them there are bound to be some negative reactions.

I don't mind blood, never have. I like watching my own blood being taken, but that's a little more understandable since it's controlled.

A couple years ago I was slicing a watermelon and cut upen the tip of my finger. It was bleeding a good amount because it was on the tip but it wasn't anything frightening. I asked my mom to get some bandages while I held my hand over the sink. I wasn't gushing blood, but it was a pretty quick and stead drip. I was pretty calm and just wanted to get it wrapped up so I could get eat my watermelon. Next think I know my vision started clouding over like when you stand up too fast after sitting for too long, and I fainted. I came to a couple seconds later, luckily my dad caught me before I hit the floor. I was feeling perfectly fine, even when everything started going black.

I just thought I'd share that since I have no problems with watching myself or others bleed yet I still fainted. I'll say one thing though, I need to faint more often. I felt so rested after my 3 seconds of downtime. I have yet to feel that rested again. ???

[Mystik_Haze]

<span style="color:red">No .. no blood.. Ick.. oi.. ahh.. bl.. ooooohh.. ahhh.. Im gonna... pu... puuke..
BRB</span>

[Tovor]

You alright Mystik? Lie down and breath deep, and take a cold drink. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Tovor]

Miasma, did you lose a lot of blood from your finger? Perhaps suddenly losing a sizable amount made you dizzy, leading you to faint. Truth be told, I'm trying to remember how I felt when I cut my finger. I think I vaguely recall feeling lightheaded when I too was standing over the sink trying to stop the bleeding. Have you ever felt light headed after being cut and losing some blood, before then or after?

[Miasmo]

I wouldn't say it was a lot of blood, but it was a good nick to the fingertip that I still have a scar from. It was dripping quickly and steadily for about 20 seconds before I fainted. I hadn't had any history of being lightheaded, and haven't been lightheaded since.

[Tovor]

Strange and unusual it is then. Good thing your dad was there to catch you or you mighta been hurt worse.

[Gazelle]

Originally posted by Justin@Oct 10 2003, 04:01 AM
Keira Knightley will be my wife.
No, mine!

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Justin@Oct 10 2003, 04:01 AM
Keira Knightley will be my wife.

No.

The lovely creature will be mine.

[Leia]

Originally posted by flo fett@Oct 9 2003, 04:38 PM
I have a friend like yours Tov who also can't deal with her periods. She takes the contraceptive pill constantly so that she no longer has a period at all. Bizarre. ???
That can't be good to be messing with her hormones like that. I wouldn't be surprised if she experiences some bad effects later on from doing that. ???

[Justin]

Originally posted by Gazelle+Oct 10 2003, 08:21 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gazelle @ Oct 10 2003, 08:21 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Justin@Oct 10 2003, 04:01 AM
Keira Knightley will be my wife.
No, mine! [/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Darth Badly@Oct 10 2003, 01:58 PM
No.

The lovely creature will be mine. [/quote]


Fight you for her!

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Justin@Oct 9 2003, 11:01 PM
Keira Knightley will be my wife.
Kiera doesn't even know who you are. She told me so.

[Darth Darthy]

Wow, Tov. You spoke to THE Keira Knightley?!? Would somebody tell me who the hell Keira Knightley is?!? Is she some american porn star or something?

[Leia]

She was Sabe. she was the chick in Pirates of the Caribbean, which seemed to be the movie that sparked all the talk about her...

[Miasmo]

I thought she was a doctor on M*A*S*H. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Darth Darthy]

Ooooh, that english chick in the Monkey Island Movie!!!
HAY!!! She's my chick Tovor! Just cause I didn't know her name doesn't mean I didn't love her in a manly way...

[Tovor]

Okay, my deep thought of the day is this:
Kiera Knightly is finally getting the recognition she deserves.
In addition to the perv stalker Darth Darthy, most casual SW fans and other viewers do not know that Kiera played Queen Amidala's decoy in TPM. It was Kiera who told Gunray she would not cooperate, who told praised R2, who met Chancellor Valorum on the landing pad, ect. A few years ago on the old Jedinet forum where our sigs went on top of the posts as a nickname, I had at one time a line praising Kiera for her work and bemoaning her lack of recognition. Even the closing credits of TPM list her as just one of the handmaidens (near the bottom of the maiden list no less) and not as the queen's decoy.

A good friend of mine had urged me to see Bend It Like Beckham mainly for her performance but I hadn't gotten to it. Now, with her role in Pirates, she will likely get the recognition and success that her talent and hard work deserves.

Yet, I strangely found her scenes in Pirates distracting. Her resemblance to Natalie Portman served it's purpose in TPM, but in Pirates the similarities were distracting. She looked not enough like Natalie to be Natalie, yet too much like Natalie that I found myself seeing Natalie rather than the character Kiera played.

And that has been my thought for the day.

[Miasmo]

Hmm. Maybe she's related to a doctor from M*A*S*H... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[Tovor]

I don't see the connection. ???

[Miasmo]

You'll see the connection if you open up your nose so you can look closely.

[Tovor]

My deep thought of the day is:
What in the world is that boy talkin' about? I have no clue.

That was my deep thought for the day. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[Miasmo]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif That is deep. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

I can't figure it out by myself! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Tovor]

Sorry dude, I can't read your mind to know what you don't know. Maybe there is little there to read, hence my difficulty? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Darth Badly]

Hey buddy boy how ya doing?!

[Tovor]

I'm stressed and wound and not yet able to appreciate that I have 2 weeks off from work. On top of that, I have no deep thought for today. I wish I did, but I can't sort my thoughts yet. Thanks for asking...now get back to work. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Lara]

I have one: Trust no one.

[Javen]

Originally posted by Lara@Oct 13 2003, 04:05 PM
I have one: Trust no one.
I don't know that person. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Miasmo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What in the world is that boy talkin' about? I have no clue.[/b][/quote]

I finally figured it out. I was talking about my own version of the newest version of the 'Easy-Bake Oven.' Now that that's all cleared up...

[Tovor]

Ah! A doctor from M.A.S.H. and a new Easy Bake Oven. I see the connection now! Not. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Tovor]

Deep thought for the early morning:

I had a strange thought. Imagine if all the other planets in the galaxy have always used birth control, and life on Earth was just an unplanned pregnancy?

[Miasmo]

Well... I guess we're the chosen ones then.

"Somehow... I've always known."

[Tovor]

Miasma, put a cork in it! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif


That just seemed funny to me, considering your avatar. Heh heh. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[maddog62]

I am like the play doe fun factory.

[Javen]

Originally posted by Tovor@Oct 22 2003, 01:58 AM
Deep thought for the early morning:

I had a strange thought. Imagine if all the other planets in the galaxy have always used birth control, and life on Earth was just an unplanned pregnancy?
As long as we wern't the product of Uranus.

[Tovor]

Originally posted by maddog62@Oct 22 2003, 11:34 AM
I am like the play doe fun factory.
heh. Always soft in the place where fun is produced? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Javen+Oct 22 2003, 11:34 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Javen @ Oct 22 2003, 11:34 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tovor@Oct 22 2003, 01:58 AM
Deep thought for the early morning:

I had a strange thought. Imagine if all the other planets in the galaxy have always used birth control, and life on Earth was just an unplanned pregnancy?
As long as we wern't the product of Uranus. [/b][/quote]
Don't you feel sorry for that planet? Other planets get cool names, but the planet Uranus is always the butt of all jokes. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[maddog62]

Originally posted by Tovor+Oct 22 2003, 03:37 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tovor @ Oct 22 2003, 03:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-maddog62@Oct 22 2003, 11:34 AM
I am like the play doe fun factory.
heh. Always soft in the place where fun is produced? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif [/b][/quote]
I got a pump for that.

[Javen]

Originally posted by maddog62+Oct 22 2003, 10:40 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maddog62 @ Oct 22 2003, 10:40 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Tovor@Oct 22 2003, 03:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-maddog62@Oct 22 2003, 11:34 AM
I am like the play doe fun factory.
heh. Always soft in the place where fun is produced? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
I got a pump for that. [/b][/quote]
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

[Tovor]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Javen]

Originally posted by Tovor+Oct 22 2003, 10:39 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tovor @ Oct 22 2003, 10:39 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Javen@Oct 22 2003, 11:34 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Tovor@Oct 22 2003, 01:58 AM
Deep thought for the early morning:

I had a strange thought.* Imagine if all the other planets in the galaxy have always used birth control, and life on Earth was just an unplanned pregnancy?
As long as we wern't the product of Uranus.
Don't you feel sorry for that planet? Other planets get cool names, but the planet Uranus is always the butt of all jokes. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif [/b][/quote]
Yeah true. But I was just saying that I didn't want to be born from that end of universe. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Tovor]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Leia]

Originally posted by Javen@Oct 22 2003, 10:34 AM
As long as we wern't the product of Uranus.
I think professional types call it Uranus with the stress on the UR and the a is more of an uh noise.

[Miasmo]

Ah. Perhaps more like urine-us. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif I made a funny.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif

[Darth_Badman]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha..heh heh heh heh heh heh heh..... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif .......I don't get it. ???

[Javen]

Originally posted by Leia+Oct 22 2003, 03:55 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leia @ Oct 22 2003, 03:55 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Javen@Oct 22 2003, 10:34 AM
As long as we wern't the product of Uranus.
I think professional types call it Uranus with the stress on the UR and the a is more of an uh noise. [/b][/quote]
I know, but it was just a joke.

[Tovor]

Javen, my young comedic apprentice, a true funny man must never feel he has to apologize for or justify his jokes. Learn that, you must. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[maddog62]

Originally posted by Tovor@Oct 22 2003, 10:08 PM
Javen, my young comedic apprentice, a true funny man must never feel he has to apologize for or justify his jokes. Learn that, you must. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
I never heard Andrew Dice Clay apologize to the migits.

[Tovor]

Exactly my point. Although he did do it privately after repeatedly getting punched in the shins.

[Tovor]

I had a deep thought today.
I was working in my photo lab printing customer pics of adult at costume parties, with drunk men and ladies decked out in bars and clubs in full costume. Then I had the deep thought. A man goes to a costume party in a bar dressed as Osama. Then another man, who'd been guzzling alcohol like a Saudi oil well gushes oil, reacted to the Osama-costumed patron by lashing out in anger and killing him, because in his drunken stupor he figured the costumed man was the bad guy. So he gets arrested, and charged with 2nd degree murder. But would he also be charged with a hate crime?

That was my deep thought today. It was, until I lost my train of thought and stopped thinking about it.

[Javen]

How about a hate crime against the costume? But I have a serious thought to add to yours I have had. Why is it that if someone kills a homosexual, a black or any other culture. But if another culture kills a white it is never mentioned as a hate crime? Besides isn't all murders hate crimes? And why isn't all murders charged as hate crimes? You have to hate to murder. A person doesn't do it out of love.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by Javen@Nov 1 2003, 11:18 PM
You have to hate to murder. A person doesn't do it out of love.
I'll disagree. But here is not the place to discuss why.

Regarding Tovor's deep thought, I personally don't think the man should be charged with a hate crime. I guess the main reason I would say that is due to the combination of public intoxication and being at a costume party, and the affect it can have on the mental stability of an individual.

Of course, I wouldn't think the guy should be let in the bar dressed as Osama in the first place. I mean... it's a BAR... on HALLOWEEN. People get SLOSHED. Brawls should be expected and hopefully prevented. I would hold the bar itself partly responsible.

[Tovor]

But who is more foolish, the fool who dresses as Osama, or the fools who let him in the door? If they turn him away, he might be able to sue for violation of his 1st amendment rights.

[Justin]

Miasma, how can you kill someone out of love?

[Javen]

Originally posted by Justin@Nov 2 2003, 10:23 AM
Miasma, how can you kill someone out of love?
Exactly. You can't becaus if you love you don't murder someone.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by Tovor@Nov 2 2003, 08:22 AM
If they turn him away, he might be able to sue for violation of his 1st amendment rights.
Better to risk being sued than to risk losing a life. In fact, being sued is so common, and becoming more so, that I think everyone should expect to be sued at least once during their lifetime. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

Justin<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Miasma, how can you kill someone out of love?[/b][/quote]
Like I said, here is not the place to discuss it. I will say that our reality is dependent on our own perception. I will not clutter this thread with discussion of this topic though. I don't think Tovor would appreciate it.

[Leia]

um... I guess you could kill someone out of misguided love. Like in the that CSI where the parents killed their baby because they thought he had some awful syndrome that was going to cause him to waste away...

[Javen]

Originally posted by Leia@Nov 2 2003, 02:21 PM
um... I guess you could kill someone out of misguided love. Like in the that CSI where the parents killed their baby because they thought he had some awful syndrome that was going to cause him to waste away...
That still isn't love. If you love, you cannot kill a human being. Misguided love isn't love.

[Justin]

That was selfishness on their part, Heather. They didn't want to deal with losing another child, it didn't have anything to do with them loving it.

Tovor, do you mind us discussing this in your thread, since it is a deep thought?

[Hobbit]

Murder as a hate crime.....the truly terrifying thing about humanity is that murder, while obviously not an act of love, can be an act without hate. Soldiers do not know the person they kill, they do not hate that individual. The soldier kills in an act of self preservation. Psychopaths (eg Myra Hindley and Ian Bradey, the Moors murderers) did not kill out of hate, but out of perversion. I find that the cold blooded act of extinguishing another person is more frightening than the thought that someone could hate me enough to try to kill me. The thought that a person I do not know and have not offended could kill me, without cause, is truly chilling.
A lady was attacked on the London underground during the peak travelling time, with a tube full of visitors, by a total stranger. A psycopath who could not explain his actions. Motiveless murder cannot be a hate crime, although it is a hateful act.

[Leia]

Originally posted by Justin@Nov 2 2003, 03:00 PM
That was selfishness on their part, Heather. They didn't want to deal with losing another child, it didn't have anything to do with them loving it.

Tovor, do you mind us discussing this in your thread, since it is a deep thought?
I didn't say it was right

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Justin@Nov 2 2003, 03:00 PM
That was selfishness on their part, Heather. They didn't want to deal with losing another child, it didn't have anything to do with them loving it.

Tovor, do you mind us discussing this in your thread, since it is a deep thought?
I don't mind. Some thought-provoking views are being stated.

[Justin]

So Miasma, explain!

[Tovor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And why isn't all murders charged as hate crimes? You have to hate to murder. A person doesn't do it out of love. [/b][/quote]
I don't think all murders are out of hate. On one hand, indifference and selfishness can be labelled hate, or lack of love of another, but most murders are not technicaly out of hate. A paid assassin doesn't feel for his mark one way or the other, he just does it for a paycheck. An armed robbery gone bad that leads to a shooting and death of a bystander is an example.

[Justin]

But they aren't done out of love.

[Miasmo]

First of all, Leia's example wasn't of misguided love, at least not from the parents point of view. While you can argue that they were selfish, you can't argue that they didn't kill out of love. Well, you can argue, but you can't prove it. But trying to convince a jury of that is a different story. Point of view is the main defense supporting the comments in this post on the motives behind murder.

And just to make things clear, my first comment about this was regarding murdering out of love as well as murdering without hate. Justin's original comment implied that one can only murder out of love or hate. At least that's the way I took it, I could very well have just misunderstood.

Regardless, here is some explanation.

Man has the ability to abandon the emotions of love and hate in regards to another human being. They can pay more attention to life in general instead of focusing their emotion on an individual. One could murder simply for the love of the experience, or the love of the ability to take a life. We are all scientists in our own way.

It's also possible to love someone so much that they want them to always be there. They know that's impossible, so it seems more compassionate, in their mind, to kill them than to let them lead a life destined for heartbreak and death. Sure, this seems like a warped version of love, but it is one person's view. You might say that they kill out of obsession or selfishness, but it is love to them.

And if you think that love for the experience of killing the object of your affection, or the compassion for a life destined for death, aren't valid reasons why a person would kill out of love, I want you to answer me this. How can you spare someone's life because you love them? Because you just love them, and that's that? Why do you love someone? I'm not trying to debate those things, I just want to hear your opinion. Most likely it can be reworked to support one of my examples.

Love and hate are not black and white, nor good and bad. Your current morals or beliefs might tell you that others are wrong, but you are really telling them their morals or beliefs are wrong when compared to your own. This has nothing to do with what is 'legal' either. It is about points of view.

One last thing. I expect you to take my comments as information provided to expand perception. They do not necessarily reflect any course of action I may or may not take during my stay here in the physical realm.


You may fire when ready. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif

[Javen]

It is agreed by most people that you are sometimes allowed to kill people, for example in self-defence. It is agreed by everybody that you are not allowed to murder people. After all, murder is defined as unjustified killing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>One could murder simply for the love of the experience, or the love of the ability to take a life. We are all scientists in our own way.[/b][/quote]

In your example above the word "love" is in descriptive only. Yet it is still not love, love does not kill no matter how you try and justifie it.

[Justin]

Miasma, what I was saying is that I don't believe people murder other people because they love them unless they are completely irrational.

You could say that someone who kills someone instead of letting them suffer horribly is doing it out of love, but I don't consider that murder per se. I don't necessarily think it's right, but I don't think that's murder.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by Javen@Nov 3 2003, 04:45 PM
It is agreed by most people that you are sometimes allowed to kill people, for example in self-defence. It is agreed by everybody that you are not allowed to murder people. After all, murder is defined as unjustified killing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>One could murder simply for the love of the experience, or the love of the ability to take a life. We are all scientists in our own way.

In your example above the word "love" is in descriptive only. Yet it is still not love, love does not kill no matter how you try and justifie it. [/b][/quote]
Yes it is love. In someone's eyes it is. Define love. Now, that definition is your definition. The love in my example can easily be the same kind of love someone has for their mother. My whole point was that different human beings interpret things in different ways.

And once again, I'm not talking about the legality of the issue, or what is 'right and wrong', or legally justified. Set the law aside for just a moment if you can.

[Javen]

Originally posted by Miasma+Nov 3 2003, 08:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Miasma @ Nov 3 2003, 08:32 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Javen@Nov 3 2003, 04:45 PM
It is agreed by most people that you are sometimes allowed to kill people, for example in self-defence. It is agreed by everybody that you are not allowed to murder people. After all, murder is defined as unjustified killing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>One could murder simply for the love of the experience, or the love of the ability to take a life. We are all scientists in our own way.

In your example above the word "love" is in descriptive only. Yet it is still not love, love does not kill no matter how you try and justifie it. [/b][/quote]
Yes it is love. In someone's eyes it is. Define love. Now, that definition is your definition. The love in my example can easily be the same kind of love someone has for their mother. My whole point was that different human beings interpret things in different ways.

And once again, I'm not talking about the legality of the issue, or what is 'right and wrong', or legally justified. Set the law aside for just a moment if you can. [/b][/quote]
I'm not talking about legality. Justify means a whole lot more than something legal. It means you try and make something as if it's right. Kind of like a magician with a slight of hand, only it's in the mind. My definition of love is not my definition at all.

Ask most people what love is not. They will tell you, at leats most would that love is not murder.

The examples you give, love contrains me from doing it. Unless someone was tring to kill me first, I would at least defend myself to the point of thier death over mine. But for the most part try and keep myself alive and survive. Even if it doesn't mean killing them.


Anyway, I can see this is a draw between us and you believe one way I another.

[Miasmo]

I guess when it comes down to it, I don't think anything that exists is right or wrong. Everything just IS. There are certain things that can prove to be beneficial or harmful in certain situations, from certain viewpoints, but can change in an instant for others. We are beings always in motion and in the midst of change.

I don't care how many people give me the same definition for love, it is still their definition and doesn't convince me that it is the absolute definition. There are no absolute definitions, at least from one perspective. The perspective must be accepted as that and approached with care. It's extremely easy to brush aside someones opinion when it contrasts sharply with a generally accepted opinion. I could say with confidence that, legality aside, some people don't believe in the existence of murder. Killing is killing and it can always be justified.

We do find ourselves at a draw, because I think everyone has a different perspective, including you and others that share your views. But your perspective, which I accept as that, prevents you from accepting my perspective. It is only a draw at the present moment. Like I said, we are beings always in motion and in the midst of change.

I do enjoy the communication we have established in the last several threads.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by Javen@Nov 5 2003, 11:13 AM
My definition of love is not my definition at all.
Could you please clarify? Do you mean that the definition you hold as true isn't your definition, but a definition created by others that you accept? If that is the case then it is still your definition. The concept comes to you, and you choose what to take and what to leave. That choice makes any definition you give, accepted as is or changed to reflect your own views, your definition.

If this is not what you meant then please explain.

With that, I leave you senators for one week.

:yinyang: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scatter.gif :yinyang:

[Darth_Badman]

Love and Hate are essentially the same thing. They are both energy and passion. They are just in the opposite ends of the spectrum. As far as murder is concerned. Murder is a crime of passion. Think about it, all crime is. Almost. Whether it's a love of money, a love of another, a love of material possesions. Crime itself can be defined as a act of passion in the technical sense of things. So what does it mean? That just because I am obsessed with a woman, I am going to kill someone to impress her? Nope, seriously maim someone? Possibly.

[Tovor]

Deep Thought for the day:
I am (was) a photographer who many times photographed women in sexy outfits and or nude, so I obviously have no problem with a woman posing nude. There is nothing wrong with it and nothing to be ashamed of. Now as the manager of a photo lab (for over 9 years) I have processed and printed countless photos of nude people taken by spouses, significant others, friends, ect. There is nothing wrong with a woman posing nude for their lovers, or for their modelling careers and/or portfolios (what I photographed), for their friends, for money, or just for the sake of seeing how they look in glamourous photos, ect.

But with that disclaimer out of the way, I think Larry Flynt is a self-serving, lecherous, inconsiderate scumbag. There is nothing wrong with a woman posing nude for whatever reason, but many women do not want their familes, their communities, and/or friends to know about it. Society judges people, whether right or wrong, and despite the beauty of the photos taken, some people are still embarrassed over people they know and people they don't know, knowing about the photos that they posed for. So, Larry Flynt had purchased photos that Jessica Lynch had posed nude in, with the original intent of publishing them to capitalize on the sudden fame and admiration most Americans have for Jessica and her ordeal. But then he decided that it would be better not to embarrass the young woman and cast her in a light she'd rather not be seen in. How do we know this? Because Larry Flynt announced exactly that! Hey Flynt, why did you open your f*ing mouth in the first place? By announcing that the photos exist you have already embarrassed her and changed some people's perceptions of her (thought certainly not mine), even without publishing them. By pretending to have the decency not to publish them to spare her the embarrassment, you embarrass her anyway and you do so to announce your nobility and cast yourself in a good light, as well as call attention to you and your magazine, for the sake of profitting from society's curiosity toward your mag even without the photos of Lynch in it. So if Flynt was a decent man of any measure, as he pretends to be by declaring that he won't publish the pics, he would have respected her privacy and image and kept his self-serving mouth shut. Honestly though, I could not deny that if the pics had been published that I would have wanted to see them, an act I would be torn to carry out, on principle, and I would probably have felt guilty about it. But my point still stands. If he really respected her privacy and had the decency he claims by making the announcement, he would not have made the announcement in the first place. He would have kept quiet about it and either destroyed the pics and negs, or kept them securely in a place where none of society could access them or be aware of them.

That was my deep thought for the day.
On a side note, Jessica has said that she is not a hero, that those who died and those who are there fighting are the true heroes. The New York Times writer who wrote her book said that everyone who got into the truck is the hero...meaning all those who went there to serve and risk their lives, and those who rode into that ambush and lived or died. When I watched video of Jessica going through physical therapy and learning to walk again, I remembered when I was in the hospital, particially paralyzed at first, and then having to learn to walk and read and write all over again. Jessica said, "I am not a hero, I am just a survivor." Sorry Jessie, you're still a hero in my book, and you always will be.

[Miasmo]

Well regarding Larry Flynt, I share prety much all same views as you do in your post... but come on, this is Larry Flynt. Did you really expect more from him?

And I'm not going to say much about being a hero. I don't use the word hero to describe anyone, so either everyone's a hero or nobody is. People are just being human, whatever they do.

[Miasmo]

*cough* style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif

[Obitwokenobi]

I have always been disgusted by porn mags and those who print them. Did you know that a survey taken by prisoners on death row shows that the most common interest among them is pornography? Did you know that, per year, the total spent on porn magazines, web sites, and videos exceed the total cost of all money spent on baseball and basketball(including tickets, concessions, and player's salaries?

Porn ruins lives.

[Tovor]

Well of course they prefer pornography. They're in prison, on death row! Its not like they have any opportunities to pick up women and take them on picnics, ya know what I mean? I mean really, pornography is not the reason they're in prison, but prison is a reason for them to want pornography. Me, I'm not in prison and never will be, but I do like pornography regardless! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wub.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Tovor@Nov 13 2003, 05:31 PM
So, Larry Flynt had purchased photos that Jessica Lynch had posed nude in, with the original intent of publishing them to capitalize on the sudden fame and admiration most Americans have for Jessica and her ordeal. But then he decided that it would be better not to embarrass the young woman and cast her in a light she'd rather not be seen in. How do we know this? Because Larry Flynt announced exactly that! Hey Flynt, why did you open your f*ing mouth in the first place? By announcing that the photos exist you have already embarrassed her and changed some people's perceptions of her (thought certainly not mine), even without publishing them. By pretending to have the decency not to publish them to spare her the embarrassment, you embarrass her anyway and you do so to announce your nobility and cast yourself in a good light,

I agree with what you're saying here. Old Larry may even be playing the long game anyway. By this I mean - look at it from his point of view. he buys the pictures but then thinks, 's**t if I publish these I might get a load of backlash feeling sorry of Jessica etc". So what does he do? Announce that he's a true gent and NOT going to publish them (thus letting everyone know he has them.) Some folks will want to see them (if only a minority) so good old Larry can then say he is bowing to over whelming public demand and print them after all - in effect saying "hey I didn't wanna show you these, but since you asked..."

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Obitwokenobi@Jan 1 2004, 12:18 AM
I have always been disgusted by porn mags and those who print them. Did you know that a survey taken by prisoners on death row shows that the most common interest among them is pornography?
This is hardly surprising is it? What do ya expect those poor slobs to take an interest in?

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Darth Badly+Dec 31 2003, 09:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darth Badly @ Dec 31 2003, 09:54 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Obitwokenobi@Jan 1 2004, 12:18 AM
I have always been disgusted by porn mags and those who print them. Did you know that a survey taken by prisoners on death row shows that the most common interest among them is pornography?
This is hardly surprising is it? What do ya expect those poor slobs to take an interest in? [/b][/quote]
Maybe Better Homes and Gardens, or Terms of Endearment, perhaps? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Obitwokenobi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Well of course they prefer pornography. They're in prison, on death row! Its not like they have any opportunities to pick up women and take them on picnics, ya know what I mean? I mean really, pornography is not the reason they're in prison, but prison is a reason for them to want pornography. Me, I'm not in prison and never will be, but I do like pornography regardless![/b][/quote]

I meant that a survey was taken about their interests before they committed the crime that landed them on death row. Porn is just sick and wrong.

[Miasmo]

I have no problem with pornography, in general.


HAPPY NEW YEAR! I MADE IT! I'M AS SHOCKED AS YOU ARE!!
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/birthday3.gif

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Obitwokenobi@Jan 1 2004, 12:55 AM
I meant that a survey was taken about their interests before they committed the crime that landed them on death row. Porn is just sick and wrong.
For a boy your age it is sick and wrong. Stay away from it! You should be reading Boy's Life and computer gaming mags for crying out loud! You shouldn't have any exposure to pornography whatsoever anyway at your age! When you get older and wiser you will see what the attraction is but for the time being stay away from it. And stay away from death row inmates too. When they don't get their fix of porn they look at boys your age differently than you'd feel comfortable with.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Tovor+Jan 1 2004, 05:03 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tovor @ Jan 1 2004, 05:03 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Darth Badly@Dec 31 2003, 09:54 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Obitwokenobi@Jan 1 2004, 12:18 AM
I have always been disgusted by porn mags and those who print them. Did you know that a survey taken by prisoners on death row shows that the most common interest among them is pornography?
This is hardly surprising is it? What do ya expect those poor slobs to take an interest in?
Maybe Better Homes and Gardens, or Terms of Endearment, perhaps? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif [/b][/quote]
I hear a lot of them are big 'Terms of Endearment' fans.

[Darth Badly]

Originally posted by Tovor@Jan 1 2004, 08:05 PM
When you get older and wiser you will see what the attraction is
Ain't dat the truth.

[Whitesaber]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>This is hardly surprising is it? What do ya expect those poor slobs to take an interest in? [/b][/quote]

Ah, I say human pieces of crap, not poor slobs. Especially not "poor."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>For a boy your age it is sick and wrong. Stay away from it! You should be reading Boy's Life and computer gaming mags for crying out loud! You shouldn't have any exposure to pornography whatsoever anyway at your age! When you get older and wiser you will see what the attraction is but for the time being stay away from it. And stay away from death row inmates too. When they don't get their fix of porn they look at boys your age differently than you'd feel comfortable with. [/b][/quote]

Computer gaming mags ROCK!!!!!!

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by Whitesaber@Jan 1 2004, 05:37 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>This is hardly surprising is it? What do ya expect those poor slobs to take an interest in?

Ah, I say human pieces of crap, not poor slobs. Especially not "poor." [/b][/quote]
But we're all human pieces of crap that have passed through the world. Some of us just smell better than others.

[Tovor]

My deep thought for the day:
I hope I smell good for a passing through piece of crap. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Whitesaber]

Originally posted by Miasma+Jan 1 2004, 07:07 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Miasma @ Jan 1 2004, 07:07 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Whitesaber@Jan 1 2004, 05:37 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>This is hardly surprising is it? What do ya expect those poor slobs to take an interest in?

Ah, I say human pieces of crap, not poor slobs. Especially not "poor." [/b][/quote]
But we're all human pieces of crap that have passed through the world. Some of us just smell better than others. [/b][/quote]
And they stink to high heaven, those poor innocent little devils on death row. Me? I smell like computer hardware that just blew a fuse...

[Whitesaber]

Originally posted by Tovor@Jan 1 2004, 08:02 PM
My deep thought for the day:
I hope I smell good for a passing through piece of crap. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif
You smell like a GIRL!!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Whitesaber+Jan 1 2004, 09:04 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Whitesaber @ Jan 1 2004, 09:04 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tovor@Jan 1 2004, 08:02 PM
My deep thought for the day:
I hope I smell good for a passing through piece of crap. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif
You smell like a GIRL!!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif [/b][/quote]
In your dreams! Stop dreaming about me like that, it's too wierd for me!

[Miasmo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>those poor innocent little devils on death row[/b][/quote]
Don't recall anyone saying they were innocent. I mean, they are in jail, and most of the people in jail are guilty of a crime. I don't see anything particularly unusual about calling them poor slobs though. It's easy to feel sorry for people who have made the choices that land them in jail, particularly on The Row of Death.

I have a headache, maybe that's why I'm giving the subject this much attention right now.

*rubs forehead*

Lousy stinking headache hate world revenge soon...

[Whitesaber]

Yeah, I know, I'm just in a foul mood right now. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I have a headache, maybe that's why I'm giving the subject this much attention right now.

*rubs forehead*

Lousy stinking headache hate world revenge soon... [/b][/quote]

Sorry, it must be the smell. Tovor's mind smells like- uh, I can't say...

[Tovor]

Hey! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Miasmo]

Don't worry Tov, you smell... intoxicating. You definitely push me above the legal limit. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Trilogist]

Originally posted by Miasma@Jan 1 2004, 07:07 PM
But we're all human pieces of crap that have passed through the world. Some of us just smell better than others.
Wow. I've never thought of it that way. The world is one Great Intestine, and we're simply passing through it. And at the end of our lives ... we simply go down the toilet, and that's if we're lucky.

Man I'm depressed. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif

[Whitesaber]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Wow. I've never thought of it that way. The world is one Great Intestine, and we're simply passing through it. And at the end of our lives ... we simply go down the toilet, and that's if we're lucky.

Mann I'm depressed. [/b][/quote]

LOL

Tovor, I wasn't thinking of- never mind... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[Tovor]

Originally posted by Trilogist@Jan 1 2004, 09:32 PM
Wow. I've never thought of it that way. The world is one Great Intestine, and we're simply passing through it. And at the end of our lives ... we simply go down the toilet, and that's if we're lucky.

Mann I'm depressed. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif
Whoa, that is the greatest analogy to life's meaning I have ever read. Trilo, you are a genius, a genius I tell ya!

But why are you telling our poster Mann that you are depressed? Is he carrying your Prozac supply?

[Trilogist]

Ooops, my mistake. I meant "man, am I depressed!" Must have been a Freudian slip or something. Maybe even a Gordian Knot, whatever that is. I'll edit ...

*edits the previous post*

[Tovor]

You may edit, but the slip remains in the quotes as plain as day. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Darth_Badman]

I like cheese....but only Gouda.

[Darth Badly]

Have you made any New Year resolutions, Mr T? And if so what are they?

(I am just back from the gym - going more often was one of mine.)

[Leia]

That's so funny! lol, I was saying to my mom yesterday that gym