Qui-Gon and his presence through the Force after death

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I think I'm right in saying that both Obi Wan & Yoda disappeared when they died - they had learnt to maintain a presence through the force even though their physical form was gone (don't know if there's a technical term for it).

Qui Gon didn't disappear when he died as he was burnt, yet he managed to commune with Yoda after he had died. Did he have the full power to appear in ghost-like form like Obi Wan & Yoda in ROTJ? If so, then why did Qui Gon not disappear on death? Or was he only able to commune with Yoda, who managed to discover the power to go further?

Also, when Qui Gon was kneeling, meditating before Darth Maul killed him, was this him preparing to be able to maintain a presence in the force, in case he died?

I seem to remember Yoda saying that you should be happy for those that turn into the force, miss them do not. So did Yoda maintaining a presence via the force after death contradict this advice? Did Yoda not want to fully have lost his presence through the force or did he simply have to maintain it to help guide Luke?

That leads me to another question, how much can Yoda see into the future, did he know what events would occur with Anakin, Palpatine etc and so he was powerless to stop them? I think he was more powerful than Sidious and was suprised that he didn't destroy Sidious, even after falling in the Senate. I would have thought Sidious could only beat Yoda with help e.g. from Anakin.

Finally, Anakin at the end of ROTJ also maintains a presence through the force. How does he learn this power? Did Qui Gon also commune with him? I just can't make sense of that part of the film at the minute.

[Master Magnus]

I think I'm right in saying that both Obi Wan & Yoda disappeared when they died - they had learnt to maintain a presence through the force even though their physical form was gone (don't know if there's a technical term for it).

Qui Gon didn't disappear when he died as he was burnt, yet he managed to commune with Yoda after he had died. Did he have the full power to appear in ghost-like form like Obi Wan & Yoda in ROTJ? If so, then why did Qui Gon not disappear on death? Or was he only able to commune with Yoda, who managed to discover the power to go further?

Also, when Qui Gon was kneeling, meditating before Darth Maul killed him, was this him preparing to be able to maintain a presence in the force, in case he died?

I seem to remember Yoda saying that you should be happy for those that turn into the force, miss them do not. So did Yoda maintaining a presence via the force after death contradict this advice? Did Yoda not want to fully have lost his presence through the force or did he simply have to maintain it to help guide Luke?

That leads me to another question, how much can Yoda see into the future, did he know what events would occur with Anakin, Palpatine etc and so he was powerless to stop them? I think he was more powerful than Sidious and was suprised that he didn't destroy Sidious, even after falling in the Senate. I would have thought Sidious could only beat Yoda with help e.g. from Anakin.

Finally, Anakin at the end of ROTJ also maintains a presence through the force. How does he learn this power? Did Qui Gon also commune with him? I just can't make sense of that part of the film at the minute.
Well, Qui-Gon was the first to learn how to do it (by a shaman of the Whills, as mentioned in the screenplay and novelization) so it's possible that the disappearing part is something Yoda and Obi-Wan learned how to do later.
As for Anakin, Lucas explained in the ROTJ commentary that it was because of Yoda and Obi-Wan that Anakin could retain his identity.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Thanks for answering that Magnus.

It's obvious I need to start reading about SW as well as watching the films to fully understand all aspects of the force. :hehe:

[Cassus Fett]

They was going to have Qui-Gon appear as a force ghost but i believe Liam Neeson had broken his arm during the filming of AOTC so having a force ghost with a cast isnt a good look.

[Mothman]

They was going to have Qui-Gon appear as a force ghost but i believe Liam Neeson had broken his arm during the filming of AOTC so having a force ghost with a cast isnt a good look.

My understanding is that Mr. Neeson wanted nothing more to do with Star Wars.

If he had broken his arm, they could have done a variety of things to cover that up. Like, a little digital magic.

:bye:

[Cydon]

Motorcycle accident.

[huttslime]

I think I'm right in saying that both Obi Wan & Yoda disappeared when they died - they had learnt to maintain a presence through the force even though their physical form was gone (don't know if there's a technical term for it).

Qui Gon didn't disappear when he died as he was burnt, yet he managed to commune with Yoda after he had died. Did he have the full power to appear in ghost-like form like Obi Wan & Yoda in ROTJ? If so, then why did Qui Gon not disappear on death? Or was he only able to commune with Yoda, who managed to discover the power to go further?

Also, when Qui Gon was kneeling, meditating before Darth Maul killed him, was this him preparing to be able to maintain a presence in the force, in case he died?

I seem to remember Yoda saying that you should be happy for those that turn into the force, miss them do not. So did Yoda maintaining a presence via the force after death contradict this advice? Did Yoda not want to fully have lost his presence through the force or did he simply have to maintain it to help guide Luke?

That leads me to another question, how much can Yoda see into the future, did he know what events would occur with Anakin, Palpatine etc and so he was powerless to stop them? I think he was more powerful than Sidious and was suprised that he didn't destroy Sidious, even after falling in the Senate. I would have thought Sidious could only beat Yoda with help e.g. from Anakin.

Finally, Anakin at the end of ROTJ also maintains a presence through the force. How does he learn this power? Did Qui Gon also commune with him? I just can't make sense of that part of the film at the minute.


My answer is: In ep. III yoda says that obi will be able to commune with him only using audio (mind talking or something.) I dont think he said that he will show up as a ghost, or else they might have added him to the ROTJ scene at the end of the movie. <-- only a maybe.

[Balnazzar]

Yes it was a bit strange that we didn't see Qui Gons ghost in the movies. Immortality is always immortality so I suppose Qui Gon was also able to show himself as a ghost. I remember GL was trying to make a part in ROTS when Qui Gon should appear as ghost, but his actor(Liam Neeson) was ill and he couldn't come. maybe that was the reason.

[huttslime]

Qui-gons ghost didn't show up because he did not learn the full ritual to become one with the force. When he found out about it, it was just a myth and he was trying to figure out how to do it.

[Balnazzar]

Qui-gons ghost didn't show up because he did not learn the full ritual to become one with the force. When he found out about it, it was just a myth and he was trying to figure out how to do it.


I assume he also DID find the way how to do it, eventually.

[huttslime]

When he died, he only knew how the process went partially, so his body didn't disapear, but it became one with the force.

[nefertiti]

But wasn't it because he was so in tune with the Living Force that "it" allowed him to learn the way to immortality after his physical death?

I mean it wasn't "automatic." There is the ten+ year gap...so...maybe? Yes?

[huttslime]

I remember reading somewhere that he found out about it on some planet. This might have been in one of those anakin/obi wan/qui gon books.

[RollaFett]

That leads me to another question, how much can Yoda see into the future, did he know what events would occur with Anakin, Palpatine etc and so he was powerless to stop them? I think he was more powerful than Sidious and was suprised that he didn't destroy Sidious, even after falling in the Senate. I would have thought Sidious could only beat Yoda with help e.g. from Anakin.


Well, remember in ROTJ, when Yoda warns Luke, "Do not underestimate the power of the Emperor"? Seems to me that he was speaking from experience.

[Cassus Fett]

well i does now ROTS came out but before it did i didnt think that about what he said.

[blacksaber]

He was able to return as a ghost by the law of olden style arcade fighting games:
He who presses the most buttons in the most rapid sucession to each other will be awarded with combos that far outrank your opponent.
He got lucky that's all.

[Cydon]

:lol:

[DarthSolo]

I'm surprised you give him that much credit as a game-fighter, blacksaber. :P

Qui-Gon figured it out because he is wise and unafraid to push the limits.

[Cydon]

Unlike the Council...

[Balnazzar]

But it was possible for him to learn how to show up later, when Yoda and Obi Wan became one wih the force, they might have taught him how to do it. Still, he didn't appear in the end of ROTJ.

[DarthSolo]

That's a possibility. I have a feeling, though, that it has to do with your state of mind at death.

[Cydon]

If I remember correctly, GL had planned to show Jinn to make an appearance in AOTC or ROTS. But Liam didn't want to.

[DarthSolo]

But wouldn't his body needed to have disapeared as Yoda's and Obi-Wan's did? The only explanation I can figure out is that Qui-Gon either wasn't ready enough for his death (gotten taken by surprise by Maul) to go through the full process or that he hadn't quite figured everything out, but did after his death. So, maybe because his body stuck around he couldn't have a ghost presence, but Yoda and Obi-Wan did figure it out.

[nefertiti]

I didn't get the impression that he had prior knowledge of "Force Ghosts" before he died. I'm feeling that his "spirit" - so intune to the Living Force was given, taught, showed the way in/as non-corporeal form.

[Orandhite]

I've got to say, I have real problems with the fact that Qui Gon was the first to work out how to live on in the Force. I can't really write why, I just do. I suppose it must be because there was no mention of it in the OT, and I just assumed that all Jedi could do it.

Also, how did Anakin work it out?

[Lord Tesla]

Qui Gon didn't disappear when he died as he was burnt, yet he managed to commune with Yoda after he had died. Did he have the full power to appear in ghost-like form like Obi Wan & Yoda in ROTJ? If so, then why did Qui Gon not disappear on death? Or was he only able to commune with Yoda, who managed to discover the power to go further?

Perhaps it had something to do with the individual's power over, or strength with, the Force. The more powerful the individual, the more afterlife abilities he exhibits. Yoda was the most powerful of the old Jedi masters, and so had the full set of powers, including the ability to manifest as a blue spirit; Obi-Wan wasn't as powerful as Yoda, but still powerful enough. He did exhibit considerable abilities, not only against Maul, but also subsequently against Anakin, if combat success is any indication of raw Force ability.

Put another way, though Qui-Gon was there, he may not have had enough wattage to shine visibly. He had to settle for Jedi cellular.

Also, when Qui Gon was kneeling, meditating before Darth Maul killed him, was this him preparing to be able to maintain a presence in the force, in case he died?

Could be. Something like Obi-Wan's faraway moment, just before Anakin cut him down on the Death Star.

I seem to remember Yoda saying that you should be happy for those that turn into the force, miss them do not. So did Yoda maintaining a presence via the force after death contradict this advice? Did Yoda not want to fully have lost his presence through the force or did he simply have to maintain it to help guide Luke?

Yoda's contradictory there. Remember also that he told Luke he was going to "forever sleep"--but he looked pretty alert there on Endor. I suspect that after giving Anakin that pep talk, he came around to the Blue Aura perspective--converted from one belief system to another.

That leads me to another question, how much can Yoda see into the future, did he know what events would occur with Anakin, Palpatine etc and so he was powerless to stop them? I think he was more powerful than Sidious and was suprised that he didn't destroy Sidious, even after falling in the Senate. I would have thought Sidious could only beat Yoda with help e.g. from Anakin.

"Always in motion is the future"--he could see a fair distance, but not with great, or persistent, accuracy. Remember the line about Luke's revelation Vader had told him he was his father: "Told you did he? Unexpected this is..." And there was the "shroud of the dark side," which made everything ever murkier, I imagine.

Finally, Anakin at the end of ROTJ also maintains a presence through the force. How does he learn this power? Did Qui Gon also commune with him? I just can't make sense of that part of the film at the minute.

Could be Qui-Gon was waiting to give him a hand up. Could be, with his near death experience on Mustafar, and all those years during which, as the ROTJ novel put it, he was "kept alive only by machinery and his own black will," he had learned a thing or two about the borderlands between life and death and how to maneuver...

It must also be taken into consideration that he was the Chosen One of the Force. There may have been more to the job-description than dying to balance the Force. Or something a little extra special in the survivor benefits package.

[Lord Tesla]

I remember reading somewhere that he found out about it on some planet. This might have been in one of those anakin/obi wan/qui gon books.

The Jedi Apprentice/Jedi Quest books? Not that I recall... But as has been mentioned by others, there are print sources saying he learned it from the Whills, who have, from time to time, been identified, unofficially, as Yoda's people.