Jedi & Sith problem

[MandalorianJF]

1)Why are the sith bad? I never sow a sith do anything bad (killing jedi is an exception).
2)Why do the jedi hate the sith and why do the sith hate the jedi?
3)Why can't the jedi and the sith go along with each other?

[Tovor]

1)Why are the sith bad? I never sow a sith do anything bad (killing jedi is an exception).
2)Why do the jedi hate the sith and why do the sith hate the jedi?
3)Why can't the jedi and the sith go along with each other?

1) Because the Sith want to oppress and dominate others, and deprive others of that which they want only to themselves.

2) Same reason why angels and demons are enemies. Same reason why police hate criminals and criminals hate the police.

3) The Jedi have to destroy the Sith to prevent them from hurting, stealing from, and controlling others. The Sith have to destroy the Jedi in order to be able to do those things. They are diametrically oppossed and cannot co-exist, just as water is to fire and

[RollaFett]

I suppose what he means is that, apart from being led to believe that the Sith are evil, we don't actually see them commit evil acts.
Y'know, Palpatine even addresses this, in a way, during the fabulous opera scene in ROTS, however, it's much more fleshed out in the novelization.

[nefertiti]

I’m not crazy about the word “evil.” I would describe them as goal orientated. Successful. Ruthless. Powerful. We got two of them against the Jedi Order. They were doing all the right things to accomplish their mission. Sort of mirrors portions of our society today, don’t you think?

Was there a “Hatfield/McCoy” thing way back when that pitted them against each other? Don’t know. But me and wiki/wookie are getting to be even better friends than I would have thought. Wasn’t actually a group of Jedi who were unhappy with the dictates of the Order…broke off and delved into the darker areas of the Force? Kinda like the Vulcans and Romulans?

[Darth Massacrus]

When one discovers powers within the Force that can bend life itself, what does one do? Say this happens in about 7000 BBY. A group of Jedi Knights, among them a young Ajunta Pall, discover that Force of sufficent intensity can bend life itself. They began to use these powers, creating odd life forms and enhancing themselves. This was discovered by their Jedi Masters, who realzed that these 'powers' were of the Dark Side of the Force. When their masters forbade the Knights from using these powers, the Knights, led by Ajunta Pall, started to rebel against the Jedi Order. The Hundred Years Darkness , or The Second Great Schism, had begun. Across the galaxy, Jedi fought Dark Jedi, for almost a century. The Jedi eventually managed to whittle the Dark Jedi Lords to a single planet, Corbos, where the Dark Jedi Lords created horrible monsters, among them Leviathans, but were ultimately defeated. placed on a single unarmed transport ship, and exiled to the farthest reaches of the galaxy, the Dark Jedi Lords, among them a still alive Ajunta Pall, exited hyperspace over the planet Ziost, where they discovered the Sith Species, a group of bony, red skinned humanoids strong in the Dark Side. Subjugating the Sith with thier awesome Darkside powers, the Dark Jedi mades themselves Lords of the Sith, and began to carve an Empire in the Outer Rim, and Empire of evil. Each Sith Lord controlled at least a dozen worlds, and the Strongest ith Lords governed the Sith Empire from Ziost, forming a Sith Council that would be ruled along with the Empire by a single Dark Lord of the Sith, the strongest of the Sith Lords. Ajunta Pall was one of these early Dark Lords. The Sith Empire edured frequent strife and conflict, but always grew from it. In 5000 BBY, the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith Marka Raagnos, died. At his funeral on Korriban, a conflict erupted between the forces of the two most powerful Sith Lords, Naga Sadow, and Ludo Kressh. Matters where not helped by the fact that an Old Republic hyperspace explorers ship discovered the Sith. Eventually, Naga Sadow crowned himself Dark Lord of the Sith, and led an invasion of the Old Republic, but was just narrowly defeated by the Jedi and Old Republic military. The Old Republic forces, along with the Jedi, followed Sadow back to the Sith Empire, and between a civil war, Jedi and miltary actions, the Sith Empire was destroyed, its worlds cleansed of Sith. But Naga Sadow himself survived, and would later pass his knowledge on to an apprentice, who would in turn kill Sadow. This apprentice, a fallen Jedi named Freedon Nadd, would later turn others to the Dark Side, among them Exar Kun, who created a new Sith Order in 3700 BBY, and once more the Sith would return to menace the galaxy...

[Cydon]

Ya think you could summarize that in one sentence?

[Miasmo]

Don't think it matters, Cydon. That post of Darth Massacrus' is little more than a partial history lesson.

But to adress the topic, I don't think it's strictly Jedi vs. Sith. It's more positive and negative. Or the slow but steady and quick but reckless. It's a mental state, which has been merged with additional features that form Jedi and Sith.

And do you think Palpatine's manipulation to gain power was not wrong? I think it was very wrong, but I also think that it was an action that was not exclusive to Sith. It was more of a Sithly mindset.

Sith goals are more selfish than Jedi goals. That's the main difference I think.

[AnaSkywalker]

I think the Jedi use (or believe that they use) the light side of the force, while the sith use the dark side for their own ends, although that's debatable. You could argue that the sith and Jedi simply believe they're using the good side of the force and aren't. Anakin, for example, in the beggining of episode 3, uses his anger to win the fight. Most of the jedi, however, try to use the force for the good of the republic while the sith use it for domination. THe sith think the jedi are stupid for that, and the jedi think the sith are...well, evil, or, as nefertiti said, goal oriented.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

We never see the Sith do anything bad? I thought Sidious started a massive war in which thousands of beings were killed, he took the galaxy by using force and killed a great number of Jedi, who, maybe got some things wrong, but generally wanted to make the galaxy a safe and harmonious place for all species. Sidious suppressed billions of people and was a dictator in the strongest possible sense of the word. I think evil is absolutely spot on to describe him.

[thepepgal]

So Palpatine building a Death Star to destroy planets isn't evil? To enslave races like the Wookies and Mon Calamaris isn't evil? Sith are doing evil things through the whole films. Vader strangle anyone at the drop of a hat.

The sith and jedi hate each other due to the long wars they have fought and that they don't agree on how to use the force. Their goals are also very different.

Sith and jedi are opposite side of the coin so will never get along. One has to destroy the other to ensure their side wins.

[Dark Helmet]

Maybe the sith arent all that bad "good is a point of view".

[thepepgal]

Maybe the sith arent all that bad "good is a point of view".

If Palpatine is anything to go by then they are evil. Would you want to live a species other than human under his rule? Would you want to be a slave? He build a death star to control planets. That would be required if everyone wanted to be ruled by him.

[Dark Helmet]

but palpatine is still doing what he thinks is right.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

but palpatine is still doing what he thinks is right.

No, he's doing what he wants to do, to gain ultimate power by controlling the galaxy. That doesn't mean he thinks it is right necessarily. I believe Sith still know good from bad, the difference is they only look inwards and do what will benefit them, no-one else, this selfishness over-rides everything else.

[thepepgal]

No, he's doing what he wants to do, to gain ultimate power by controlling the galaxy. That doesn't mean he thinks it is right necessarily. I believe Sith still know good from bad, the difference is they only look inwards and do what will benefit them, no-one else, this selfishness over-rides everything else.

Very true

[Darth Zan Maka]

Hmm... So murder of a child is not wrong and evil ? Poor younglings...

[blacksaber]

Curse you Darth Za! I was going to mention that the murder of children might be a questionable subject of the Maybe the sith arent all that bad "good is a point of view". oh well, I guess everything is relative then! *Voice dripping with icy sarcasm*

[Konig15]

Oh come on! Let's be realistic. You kill kids for the same reason you kill adults; so they can't rise up against you in the future. Every, and I mean EVERY culture on this planet adores great men who have the blood of children on his his hands, regardless of creed or race. I can give examples if I were so inclinded but not.

If your oh so goodie, good Jedi found a cadre of half trained sith between six and 15 years old trained in the dark side, they would hesitate not for one second to slaughter the Sithspawn. And it would be the prudent thing to do. Modern mythology is often sanatized, so you never see the precious Jedi put in such a position. Morality is a very complicated subject, ethics moreso.

[blacksaber]

The Jedi wouldn't try to raise the Sith kiddies in the way of the light? Children are very impressionable and with a positive example they might turn from their already sordid ways.

[lovelucas]

I can't see the Jedi slaughtering an entire group of "Sithspawn" even if they've already been programmed to become the enemy of the Jedi. It's not the Jedi way.

But I do think the Sith come down hard and firmly on the evil side...no matter what the motivation, power, greed, etc. or thinking they're doing the right thing. They are measured by their deeds.

[Darth Zan Maka]

I can't see the Jedi slaughtering an entire group of "Sithspawn" even if they've already been programmed to become the enemy of the Jedi. It's not the Jedi way.


Hmmm.... What about padawan massacre on Taris, Senator? Five Jedi Masters killed their padawans after their final trial 'cause one of them assumingly COULD be the one from the brand new Dark visions... only One of Five. So anyway four young about-to-be-Jedi (massacre was performed on a false knighting ceremony) would die for nothing, and they did. Funniest thing, none of the five was the one from their master's dark prophecy. Sad story.

[RollaFett]

^ I dunno anything about that. Besides, that's EU.


If your oh so goodie, good Jedi found a cadre of half trained sith between six and 15 years old trained in the dark side, they would hesitate not for one second to slaughter the Sithspawn.

Couldn't disagree more. What causes you to make such an assumption? Certainly, there is no evidence in any of the films to think they'd partake in such an act.

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I did have a valid point to make, but it totally went out of my head upon seeing Rolla and LoveLucas agree. :nahnah: :)

[lovelucas]

bring out the ice skates for Mustafar!

[Konig15]

^ I dunno anything about that. Besides, that's EU.



Couldn't disagree more. What causes you to make such an assumption? Certainly, there is no evidence in any of the films to think they'd partake in such an act.

Because fundementally the Jedi are samuari janisarries. And they have all the wonderful PRETENTION to morality the samuari do (Which the Jedi and the samuari repeatly violate at convenince) and the ruthlessness of the janisarries. First with the baby snatching, which is simply morally uncountable even with the parents permission and then they claim the moral high ground when they lead another band of slave soldiers (clone troops) into battle to be slaughtered by robots.

I'm not saying the Sith aren't evil, they clearly are, but the Jedi cannot be considered good except in a pre-modern, one could say Pre-Chrstian context. And in that context, the total slaughter of one's enemies, children included is something of a virtue and even in a Christian context, something of a neccessity. I'm not even saying it would wrong to slaughter sithspawn; sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. Hard ones. But Star Wars and other entertainment venues never put the hero in position of true moral difficulty.

[Tovor]

The Sith are inconsiderate toward the working class, and are lousy tippers. That's enough for me.