Darth Traya and other SW EU stuff

[Darth Massacrus]

this is my new thread on all my back posts, and a place to SERIOUSLY discuss the obscure parts of the EU. I would love to mess around but that can be on another thread or so, not this one. Enjoy the posts/reprints!

[Darth Massacrus]

http://www.galacticsenate.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: The Most Powerful Jedi Ever to Live
Allow Lord Massacrus to settle this issue. If both the Sith and Jedi derive thier power, stregnth, and abilities from the Force, then is the Force that they control or is it the Force that controls them? Take the greatest Jedi, the greatest Sith, strip away the Force, and what, if anything, are they? They rely on the Force so much so that they cannot survive without it. Only two Force users have ever, in ANY SW tale, had the Force stripped from them and become stronger for it. They are a Jedi who was exiled from the Order for serving in the Mandalorian Wars, and the other is Master Jedi Kreia/ Arren Kae who was also the Dark Lady of the Sith Darth Traya. In fact, both regained thier connection to the Force after having it stripped from them, and became even more powerful for it. Of the two, Traya was undoubtedly the stronger. Not only did Darth Revan, the Exile, and many other Jedi learn from her, but also Darths Nihilus and Sion were taught thier evil knowledge by her. In fact, Traya was the only Force user in galactic history to have found a way to DESTROY THE FORCE ITSELF. And she very nearly succeeded. Only the Jedi Exile, the only Force User to voluntarily sever herself from the Force and recover that connection, was able to defeat her in a duel of Lightsabers and Force Powers, and even then just barely. In fact, had Traya not been defeated, there would have been no Yoda, no Sidious, no Skywalkers, no Windus, no Plagueis', or any other future Force users or Force related wars. Why? For there would have been no Force. To master something to the point where you are able to destroy it, in this case the Force, is an ability only achieved by one: Darth Traya. That is why she and no other can be considered the most powerful Force user ever to live. And no, Jacen Solo, for all his power, cold never destroy the Force.

[Darth Massacrus]

Has ANYONE heard of Darth Traya, or Arren Kae, or Kreia? Please let me know what you think of her if you have.

[Cydon]

Kreia is this weeks featured article on Wookiepedia.

[Darth Massacrus]

But what do YOU think of 'Kreia'. And let me ask you this: do you think she was Arren Kae? If she was, that would mean her daughter is The Handmaiden.

[alew773]

she might have been that would explain how she knew so much about handmadian

[Darth Massacrus]

what else do you think about the 'Lord of Betrayal'?

[alew773]

well i don’t know what your looking for but from what I’ve seen she seems to be a conniving person with here own agenda

[Darth Massacrus]

Oh, you dont know the half of it:holosid:

Darth Traya's/Arren Kae's/Kreia's ultimate goal, which she came oh so close to fulfilling, was to DESTROY THE FORCE ITSELF. Had she succeeded, there would have been no Jedi or Sith or Yoda or Palpatine or Skywalker or Windu or Plagueis or whatever, for the very thing that defined them would not exist at all.

[Cydon]

Too bad. It would be interesting if she succeded. Of course, the movies would be fanon if that happened.

[Darth Massacrus]

whats more interesting is that 'Kreia' trained so many powerful apprentices, Sith and Jedi alike. Darth Revan, one of the few beings in galactic history who could control the ultimate Dark Side Weapon, The Star Forge, was once the Padawan of 'Kreia' both before and after Kotor 1. The Jedi Exile, the very person who was able to so sever all ties to the Force so much so that it left a wound in the Force, not only regained her connection to the Force via 'Kreia', but learned much from her. Darth Nihlus, who could use his hunger to instantly kill off entire planets of Force Sensitives, learned his dark knowledge from 'Kreia', as did Darth Sion, who could make himself immortal for all intents and purposes. This is to say nothing of the fact that 'Kreia' trained many other Sith and Jedi in her long career. And throughout all of this, she never truly fell to either the dark or lightside of the Force.

[Darth Massacrus]

heres a really creepy picture of Dark Side Adepts Janus Greejatus and Sim Aloo:

[alew773]

what does panon mean

[Cydon]

First of all, I don't see any pictures. Second, fanon means Star Wars that isn't Star Wars.

[Darth Massacrus]

sorry about the missing picture. Here it is:

[Darth Massacrus]

save the photo to your computer and zoom in on it, especially the face of Greejatus...

[matthius]

Only two Force users have ever, in ANY SW tale, had the Force stripped from them and become stronger for it. They are a Jedi who was exiled from the Order for serving in the Mandalorian Wars, and the other is Master Jedi Kreia/ Arren Kae who was also the Dark Lady of the Sith Darth Traya. In fact, both regained thier connection to the Force after having it stripped from them, and became even more powerful for it.
You stand corrected, even though it is of new material, spoiler alert ahead- (subject-Darth Bane: Path of Destruction/book), after killing and fully giving into the dark side Bane puts up a mental force block, which he overcomes with help from Githany(a fellow student-also in Jedi vs. Sith). Githany apparenty also had this happen to her in her training as a padawan and through simple re-learning of the force this obsticle is overcome. The fact that this happens is why Bane also goes back to reading the ancient sith texts, which eventually leads him to the rule of two. I won't give away any more plot points, but I just wanted some more sith-lore not appointed by KOTOR, and to prove others have survived and flourished from losing force connections. Also in the Medstar Duology it is said that Jedi Master Joclad Danva can perform the unusual feat of disconnecting from the force.

[Darth Massacrus]

I did not say lose the Force and regain it, I said 'stripped of the Force and became STRONGER for it.' Besides, Darth Banes connection to the Force was always there, he just did not feel it as strongly. Others, like Ulic qel-Droma, were Stripped of the Force, but became weaker for it, not stronger, unlike Kreia and the Exile, who grew stronger for it. And I have read the Medstar books, and I am of the belief that the Master you speak of could dim his/her connection to the Force, but not lose it. And it did not seem to add or subtract from his/her stregnth in the Force, either.

[Cydon]

Don't try to argue with Darth, matthius. You will lose.

[matthius]

eh, he's right under the circumstances, i.e. I wasn't trying to start a debate cydon:ugh: :w00t: .

[Darth Massacrus]

Did anyone see the pic I posted of Sim Aloo and Janus Greejatus? It's sorta freaky when you zoom in on it...

[Darth Massacrus]

Re: Emperor's Right Hand
I know of many 'Emperors Right Hands'. Among the ones that are on the Death Star 2 are Janus Greejatus, Sim Aloo, Ars Dangor, Sate Pestage, Kren Blista Vanee, Sly Moore, Grand Admiral Nial Declaan, Grand Admiral Osvald Teshik, Grand Admiral Miltin Takel, and Grand Admiral Afsheen Makati. As for Emperors Hands( a completely unique and separate rank/title) there is Mara Jade, Lumiya, Arden Lyn, Maarek Steele, Sarcev Quest, Jeng Droga, and others. Of the dignitaries on the Death Star 2, Janus Greejatus, Sim Aloo, and Nial Declaan were Force Sensitive, this being revealed in the Dark Side Sourcebook for Aloo and Greejatus( there is a really creepy image of them with a caption that states them to be among the Dark Side Adepts and being in possession of a talisman and having proficiency in Sith Alchemy) and Declaan was stated in the Grand Admirals article by Dan Wallace and Abel Pena as being a Dark Side of the Force user who was skilled in Battle Meditation( which he used with Palpatine to aid the Imperial Fleet at Endor). All three perished when the Death Star erupted. Also of note for Aloo and Greejatus is that they were advisors to Chancellor Palpatine during the Clone Wars, which is starnge that they werent detected as Force-Sensitives by the Jedi. As for Sate Pestage, he HAD to have left the Death Star before its destruction, as he was on Coruscant when Palpatine and Vader perished at Endor, as he became haed of the Empire after the battle. Later he served the Emperor on Byss, as he had since Palpatines days as a Naboo politician. It is not known if he died when Byss was destroyed, though... As for Kren Blista-Vanee, he was simply an Advisor to the Emperor and like the othe digitaries, a member of the Ruling Council/Inner Circle. He did not survive Endor. Ars Dangor, an advisor/aide to Palpatine since the latter's days as a Senator from Naboo, was also a survivor of the Death Star 2s destruction and was active in Imperial affairs at least as recently as 11ABY. Sly Moore, who appears in the prequel along with Mas Ammedda as one of Palpatines cronies, is alleged to be among the Death Star Dignitaries, but I cannot find a source for this. The Trilogy Sourcebook from West End Games states that the Dignitaries are clothed in the traditional costumes of their homeworlds, and Sim Aloo wears Coruscant Headpieces, meaning that he is from Coruscant. Sate Pestage is almost certainly from Naboo, given his closeness with Palpatine, and the same can be said with reasonable certainty for Ars Dangor. The homeworlds of Greejatus and Blista-Vanee are not known. In the end of the scene in ROTJ, when the camera gives an overhead view of the group along with a sinister laughing sound, at least 7 dignitaries can be spotted in the group. In the novelization of ROTJ, it is stated that the dignitaries are cruel, lustful men and WOMEN, meaning that at least one of the unnamed dignitaries from the film is female( possibly Sly Moore?). If you have any questions, comments, complaints, other information, please let me know by replying to this message or by emailing me. Thank You.

[Darth Massacrus]

The above post is the next topic this EU thread will deal with. It starts with a repost of my post on the Imperial Dignitaries from the Death Star II. Any info on the Imperial Dignitaries is welcome, as is anything in the way of a response.

[Darth Massacrus]

geez. I'd forgotten all about this thread. oh well, time to revive the dead, again.

[Darth Massacrus]

wonder what happens if I return to the topic of the most powerful Force user in all of Galactic History, Darth Traya/Kreia/Arren Kae?

[Darth Massacrus]

see above^^^^

[Zaosis]

I did not say lose the Force and regain it, I said 'stripped of the Force and became STRONGER for it.'

While most of your arguments for why Traya is the strongest force user have some validitity, this above quote does not seem to make sense.
According to the game, KOTOR2, nowhere is The Exile stripped of the force, he removes his own connection to it, because (according to kreia) he was afraid. Perhaps that is what you consider 'stripped' but I personally do not. Stripped off the force would involve users who actual lost the force by the actions of others, which has rarely happened.

I see that a big portion of your argument is that many of her padawans became powerful masters in their own right, Revan, Sion, Nihilus, The Exile, but this to me does not seem a perfect justificition for ones power.

While she did train The Exile, it was his own experiences in life that shaped him, she merely opened him up to it and resparked his interest in the force. She did this by letting him know of the Sith that seek to eradicate him and forcing him to face this threat without being afraid.

Equally so, Revan was taught well but had many masters, Traya being one of them. It can easily be argued that this was one of many influences and the events of the Mandalorian wars and the Jedi civil war is what truly shaped him into the man he became before he left. They say anger fuels the dark side, and that passion leads to power etc--Imagine the surge of anger he must have felt when he learned what the council did to him?

In any case, Traya was strong but I would not say she was the strongest. It would definetly be dificult to compare her, for example, to Revan himself. Revan was very strong in the force and knew how to use the powers of the dark side without truly succumbing to it. Moreso, he was able to easily bend both light/dark jedi to his will. The Exile in KOTOR2 also seems to have this trait, partially because he is a wound of the force, and it is apparent that this is a very powerful and dangerous trait.

On a side note, It seems dificult to compare, on any basis, Traya or Revan to some of the buried Sith Lords, such as Exar Kun.

[Cydon]

I'm officially confused!!!

[Darth Massacrus]

but of all the masters that Revan had, only Traya was the one he ultimately turned to in the end, just before leaving to fight the True Sith.

Actually, it does not truly matter HOW one is stripped of the Force, but how they deal with it, and if they figure out how to become stronger for it.

I would believe that Traya was also the most powerful in terms of teaching ability, as she knew and taught the most intimatte secrets of both the Sith and the Jedi, all the while never truly falling to the Darkside, as she was more gray than dark or light.

As for whether Revan felt angry at the council for what they did to him, he was more confused than anything else, as the dialog from Kotor 1 that deals with this indicates. Of all his Masters, it was likely Traya that taught him this ability to do what was necessary for the greatest good, even if it meant embracing the Darkside.

And as for the Jedi Exile, her experiences (the Exile IS female) in life would not have protected her from the Lords of the Sith and thier assassins, had Traya not intervened and saved her life, and teaching her how to use the Force again.

As for how The Lord of Betrayal would stack up against other Sith, I would reckon that as she knew all of thier secrets, as well as those of the Jedi, she would be the most powerful of them all. But there was a power that she discovered that no ther Force user in galactic history ever did: a method for destroying the Force itself. And that is why she and no ther is the most powerful of all the Force users in the SW saga ever. Thhat, and the fact that she was slave to niether dark nor light.

[Zaosis]

While some of that all is true, and while Kreia clearly didn't embody the total philosophy of the Sith, she was heavily enclined towards the dark side in much of her dealings. This is evident in the history of her teaching and also in KOTOR2, where much of her solutions to problems and many of the ways to attain +Influence with her led to dark solutions and dark side points.

as for whether the exile is female, that's about as debatable as whether Revan is a male or not :nahnah:

I would reckon that as she knew all of thier secrets, as well as those of the Jedi, she would be the most powerful of them all. But there was a power that she discovered that no ther Force user in galactic history ever did: a method for destroying the Force itself. And that is why she and no ther is the most powerful of all the Force users in the SW saga ever. Thhat, and the fact that she was slave to niether dark nor light.
2 things to note here:
1. She clearly did not know everything of the old sith lords. This is obvious when the exile travels to Korriban and Kreia describes each of the four ransacked tombs, she fails to explain or understand how/why one of the lords was the strongest lightsaber user in history.
2. I'm not really sure where you got that she found a method for destroying the force, or how it can even be done. Draining the force from three jedi and destroying it altogether is not the same. Draining/removing force from Jedi wasn't a feat solely available to her. The council could do it when they desired, as could many other people, such as Nihilus.

Another thing that seems interesting, if she truly was the greatest, what reason was there for her not to preserve her soul after death, as Exar Kun, Nihilus, Sidious, etc, have?

[Cydon]

Beats me..I just post here.

[matthius]

I agree with alot of Zaosis' points, but Massacrus has some good ones too. Although Kreia is notoriously gray, her goals can be considered evil, e.i. wants to destroy the force completely. And the fact that you get dark side points when you gain influence with Kreia is another pointer that she's kinda dark. Does Kreia really have the power of destroying the force though? I was under the impression that the Exile was the end, the bleeding wound in the force?

[Darth Massacrus]

well, Kreia hoped to use the Exile to gather all her enemies and Force users where they could be ended. The Sith Lords, The Jedi Masters, hundreds of Sith remnants, and the Trayus Academy students themselves. She hoped to further the wound in the Force, and hoped to lure the Exile to Malachor, where she would create a greater, far more devastating wound, one ultimately capable of defeaning all to the Force, and potentially destroying it. Her desire to do this sprang from her realization that the Jedi and Sith and all who use the Force are merely pawns of the Force, which would throwaway millions, perhaps billions of lives in order to achieve some measure of balance. Traya essentially wanted to prevent future Force born conflicts and deaths, and give the galaxy a chance to live life withou the Force, on it's own terms. After all, one merely had to read the histories and ancient stories to realize just how much death and destruction cpould be attributed to the Force, and Traya, ever the historian, realized this. Also, as a historian she knew the secrets of the Jedi from her many decades as a Jedi Master, and the secrets of the Sith from her time as the Dark Lady of the Sith and her control of the planet Malachor 5. She also had apparently been to Korriban at least once before, as she knew its secrets as well. As for why the Exile did not find out more of the Ancient Sith buried in the Valley Tombs nearest the Academy, she simply did not ask. And BTW, The Jedi Exile was revealed to be female in The New Essential Guide to Droids. Much like the Official SW site has confirmed Revan to be male. As for preserving her soul after death, like many of the other Sith Lords and Dark Lords did, she simply did not need to. and the planet she was on, Malachor 5, was destroyed shortly after her death anyways, something Kreia knew the Exile would do. And by the way, Exar Kun was forced (so to speak) to lock his spirit away in his Yavin Temples in order to survive the Jedi Cleansing of Yavin 4, Sidious merely tranferred his Dark Side Spirit into Clone bodies, but his sprit was evdentually defeated and sent away into the netherworld of the Force, and Lord Nihilus was essentially dead long before his body fell in lightsaber combat on the bridge of the Ravager, the only things left of him being his mask and his Sith Holocron.

[Zaosis]

Perhaps some guide says the exile did not ask for more information about the tombs, but in the game, which generally follows whatever Lucas wants, Kreia clearly did not know some things about the tombs, such as the example I gave above. She clearly said that she was unsure what made him (I may go back and find that lord's name) so powerful with a lightsaber or how.

I suppose you could call Nihilus dead because of his wound in the force and his hunger, but future events, such as Kreyt(sp?) using his holocron to speak to him clearly show that he was far from dead.
Yes, Sidious was eventually defeated, there is no doubt of that, but it took very much and a long time to do it.
One such sith who did preserve himself without the necessity of a holocron or item (such as a mask), although was summoned occasionally through an amulet, was Freedon Nadd, so perhaps he was very powerful in that right, you may disagree with it.

Back to Traya though, I suppose we both agree now that she did not have the power to destroy the force, merely a grand plan that she believed would be able to eventually do it for her, with The Exile as the catalyst. I doubt she could have turned the Exile into a "black hole force" capable of defeaning anyone from being force-sensitive and eventually adept in the skills of force usage. But I am not sure whether her plans could have worked.
If part of what made Traya so powerful (or the most powerful) is her ability to create such a plan and try to pull it off, then it is hard to really define strongest in what sense. As far as plan making goes and pulling a plan off, I'd give that award to Sidious, without a doubt, for his plans required alot of skill, patience, deceit, and vision.

[Darth Massacrus]

I agree with you on the part about Freedon Nadd. As for why Traya did not know just what Tulak Hord used to make himself so great with a lightsaber, perhaps nobody other than Tulak Hord knew. And with his Holocron lost, perhaps noone ever will know. And while Traya did go to Korriban and learn its secrets, she probably could not have gotten into Tulak Hord's tomb, as it was the nesting place of the Tukata in that part of the Valley. As for Nihilus, anyone could speak TO him, but could they understand HIM? Sidious and Traya are alike in many regards, most notably in being able to plan things and see far into the future. But Kreia has him beat ther, too, as she was able to see millennia into the future, while Sidious could not see that he would fail, because he refused to even consider that possibility.

[Zaosis]

As for Nihilus, anyone could speak TO him, but could they understand HIM
ofcourse not, hehe :lol:

Her plan ultimately fails as well, with her defeat and the destruction of Malachor V, unless you mean that she knew that her plan would not achieve its ultimate goal.

[Darth Massacrus]

she needed to be certain. If she had been able to subdue the Exile, than her goals for the Force would have been acjieved. Had she been beaten by the Exile, she would have had her teachings proven to have been right, and she still would have 'won'. In other words, she had her bases covered.

[Zaosis]

I meant her effort to use the exile to destroy the force, that failed. Whether she died or not in the process is irrelevent to that fact. but yeah..

I wish they would write something or make another game that continues the Revan storyline...He's one of the more interesting and powerful characters in SW and his story never finished :(. Who knows..

[Darth Massacrus]

or perhaps deals with his tutelage under Masteer Kae/ Traya/Kreia?

Or a novel about Kreia, that takes place during her younger days?

[Darth Massacrus]

Cyde: since you asked for more action in the library, I am reviving this thread...

[Cydon]

Gggggoooooddddddd.....VERRRRRYYYY GGGGGGOOOOODDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!

[Darth Massacrus]

whatever, Sidious.... heheheheheheh....


anyways, any questions on the Lord of Betrayal?

[Cydon]

Not yet. Btw, I'm almost finished with the NJO. Trying to be "Unify the NJO" by finishing The Unifying Force. (started in August 06)

[Darth Massacrus]

I wonder: did 'Kreia', when she was a Jedi Master, create a holocron?

[Cydon]

:giveup: Remember, I just obtained KOTOR recently...I'm still at the beginning on the bridge of that ship.

[Darth Massacrus]

which Kotor?

[Cydon]

1

[Darth Massacrus]

ah.

[Emalin]

Hey, speaking of Kreia...I came across this awesome piece of fan art on kotorfanmedia.com, by Farlander. It's supposed to be Kreia in her younger days.

Atton was right when he said she might have been beautiful once! :happydance:

[Darth Massacrus]

Emalin: I LOVE that pic! Praise be to you, and you have just become my favorite Senator, all because you a) gave me a great pic of Kreia
b) seem to like my favorite SW character, and c) gave me the name of a great site to check out! Reppoints are coming your way!!!:bye:

[Darth Massacrus]

I just noticed something: every image of Kreia i've ever seen reminds me of an old Native American lady. Anyone else get that impression?

[Emalin]

Yes. Perhaps it was intentional? Or maybe the developers just drew inspiration from Native Americans.

[Darth Massacrus]

^I knew it! Great minds think alike!:bye:

[Cassus Fett]

I just noticed something: every image of Kreia i've ever seen reminds me of an old Native American lady. Anyone else get that impression?

I suppose because the old Native American Women were meant to be wise, and Kreia is considered to be the 'Wise Old Lady', amoung other things.

[Darth Massacrus]

random theory: perhaps Kreia really isnt Arren Kae, but instead a sister. That way, Kreia could have been Krynda Draay, and the aunt, rather than mother, of the Handmaiden...

[Emalin]

random theory: perhaps Kreia really isnt Arren Kae, but instead a sister. That way, Kreia could have been Krynda Draay, and the aunt, rather than mother, of the Handmaiden...

There's a theory that Kreia is the Handmaiden's mother??? :eek: Where does that come from?

[Darth Massacrus]

Well, in the dialog in game, Kreia only speaks favorably of one of the Jedi Masters: Arren Kae, who was according to Mical another one of Revans teachers, was also Exiled from the Order (like Kreia suppossedly was), fought in the Mandalorian Wars, where she was believed to have died (but no body was ever found). In addition, Kae was welcomed by Revan himself (according to Kreia). Also, she readily admits that she knew Brianna was the daughter of Arren Kae, and says of Kae that she was 'strong in the Force' and 'beautiful' and 'a skilled warrior' (all traits that Kreia shared, even the beauty one, according to Atton). Furthermore, at the gathering of Masters Vrook, Kavar and Kai-Ell on Dantooine, they all recognize her, and Kavar even proclaims in shock "I thought you died in the Mandalorian Wars' before being cut off by Kreia (who says in confirmation: 'die? no. Became stronger, yes") In addition, the Exile (whose memories were clouded by Kreia) cannot seem to recall anything of Arren Kae, despite her status within the Order. Lastly, as Kreia hated both Sith and Jedi, she may have derived the name 'Kreia' by combing her Jedi and Sith names of Kae and Traya into 'Kreia'.

More recently, the Kotor comics have introduced a female Jedi Master named 'Krynda Draay' that bears a resemblance to what Kreia could have looked like during the early part of the Mandalorian Wars. She even is around the right age, and is somewhat beautiful. Also, Krynda Draay is a veteran of the Sith War (where her husband died) and mentions that her son Lucien does not have the Force-Sight that she does (something Kotor II's Kreia also has). As another odd coincidence, her assistant (a failed Padawan named Haazen who looks far to much like Darth Sion) helps her run a secret Jedi Covenant that operates under the noses of the Jedi High Council, and which was behind a murder of several Padawans on the planet Taris (an offense that, if discovered, surely would have led to exile from the Order).

My theory is this: Krynda Draay and her Covenant are discovered by the Council, who exile Draay from the order. Taking up the similar name of Arren Kae, she joins up with her future lover Yusanis (the leader of the Echani) with whom she fights in the Mandalorian Wars, after being welcomed by her former pupil Revan, now heading the war effort. In the catacalysm of the War, she is presumed dead by the Jedi, but in reality aids Revan. After the defeat of the Sith Empire, Krynda/Arren (now a Sith Lord) is so consumed by guilt and her actions that she goes to Revans base on Malachor 5, where she becomes Darth Traya. There she takes on two apprentices (Haazen, now Darth Sion,), and Zayne Carrick (now Darth Nihilus), who betray her and kick her out of the Sith. Combinig her identities into simply 'Kreia', she seeks to destroy the Force itself, in order to prevent all the future death and destruction it will bring about to achieve balance. Her story climaxes when she meets the Jedi Exile......

[Darth Massacrus]

There's a theory that Kreia is the Handmaiden's mother??? :eek: Where does that come from?


As for where the theory comes from, I began piecing together the info I got out of dialogs from KOTOR 2, and now that the KOTOR Comics add more evidence of this, well, it is hard NOT to think and hope this....

[Jedi Master 2k5]

Hmm... I haven't really given much thought to that before^. But now that you bring it up you do have an entresting point,

[Darth Massacrus]

more on Kreia/Traya/ Kae/Krynda/ whoever else/

do you think that she really was good looking once, like Atton had said? and that she really could be iether Arren Kae or Krynda Draay or both????

[Darth Massacrus]

Traya/Kreia VS Sidious/Palpatine Comparison


Knowledge: Sidious knew much of Sith lore, but Kreia knew a lot of Sith history too, and likely knew things forgotten by the time of Sidious. That, and she was a Jedi Master, and knew much of Jedi history as well. EDGE: Kreia.

Power: Sidious shoots deadly lightning, something Kreia can also do. Sidious can hide in plain sight of Jedi Masters, as can Kreia. However, Kreia can also drain the life right out of multiple Jedi Masters, unlike Sidious. That, as well as Force-choking people and other powers, make her better. EDGE: Kreia

Lightsaber skills: Sidious is a Master of Form VII: Juyo, and can switch his style at will. However, so can Kreia, who also knows all forms. What gives Kreia the edge is that she is able to use her lightsaber with literally just one hand, and when that goes away, she can telekinetically levitate three Lightsabers at once, each with a different style and form. EDGE: Kreia

Teaching abilities: Sidious trained three Sith Lords: Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus, and Darth Vader. Kreia trained two Dark Lords of the Sith (Darth Revan as a Jedi and Sith, and Darth Nihilus), as well as a literally immortal Sith Lord named Darth Sion. Oh, and she trained an exiled Jedi Knight who was able to best her other apprentices, in addition to numerous other Jedi before the Mandalorian Wars. EDGE: Kreia.

Looks: at least Kreia was 'once beautiful', and had normal teeth. Oh, and her skin wasnt yellow and melted. EDGE: Kreia

Manipulation skills: Sidious was able to manipulate the overthrow of the Old Republic and destruction of the Jedi. Kreia went out for bigger game. She not only was able to manipulate the Sith and Jedi into destroying themselves, but was able to find a way to destroy the force itself. EDGE: Kreia

Summary: Kreia was a better, more powerful Dark Lord of the Sith than Sidious was. Feel free to argue this.

[Darth Massacrus]

Now that a lot of information about Krynda Draay from the Kotor comics has been revealed, I am going to say that she will eventually become Kreia/Darth Traya from Kotor II.

[csr74]

I concur with all that.
In fact i´ve always wondered what was the matter with Palpatine´s teeth, as he was so wealthy, couldn´t he go to the dentist like anyone else?:giveup:
I have a doubt, though:
But Kreia/Krynda/Traya on the other hand was overthrown by her apprentices from the ruling position of the Sith.

[Darth Massacrus]

But Kreia/Krynda/Traya on the other hand was overthrown by her apprentices from the ruling position of the Sith.

"There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense"
-Kreia, explaining how Sion and Nihilus were able to overpower her.

Even after having the Force stripped from her by her former apprentices, Traya was able to regain her connection to it; as well as cause the downfall of Nihilus and eventually return to Malachor V and reassert dominance over Sion (even though Sion was technically immortal, he still bowed down to her).

[csr74]

That last part makes me feel more intrigued about Sion and his relationship with Traya (see the EU Speculation thread for more details).

Well, i don´t see Palpatine regaining connection with the Force after being dispossesed of it, therefore point for Traya.

But again it seems that Palpatine had the advantage of knowing of all this past events and was able to avoid most of the perils such situations could bring forth. He was more cautious and never tried to strike without having a good "conventional" (not Force-related) support.

[Darth Massacrus]

But again it seems that Palpatine had the advantage of knowing of all this past events and was able to avoid most of the perils such situations could bring forth. He was more cautious and never tried to strike without having a good "conventional" (not Force-related) support.

Conventional? Like blasters, Clone Troopers, ect?

[csr74]

Yes, that´s what i mean.

[Darth Massacrus]

Just checking. The interesting thing is that Traya was able to predict at least one of the very things Palpatine set in motion, that the Republic would eventually fall, as well as the death of Jango Fett at the hands of Mace Windu.

[csr74]

Another point for her, then. Although Palpatine also foresaw many things...:wink:

[Darth Massacrus]

Another point for her, then. Although Palpatine also foresaw many things...:wink:

Indeed he did:innocent:.... (wonder if he foresaw the reactor core as he was plummeting down the shaft...)

[csr74]

I don´t think so...he seemed to prefer foreseeing nice things (for him, that is).