View Full Version : Vader and his anger
Obi-wannabe
10-10-2006, 01:03 AM
In all three episodes of the OT Vader seemed to be in control of his anger during his duels. With Kenobi he showed no rage or anger, for hating Kenobi as he did he didn't show it. In both duels with Luke he showed himself in control also. He did show anger with his officers though but I find it interesting how anger was supposed to give him focus in duels he sure didn't show it.:vader:
You are right. In OT Vader was in control of his anger. I believe he was using his anger through another channel. Anger and hate are very dangerous feelings. In case they can not be controlled, person can do things he or she will regret later. For example, the way Anakin went to save his mother and killed a whole village of tusken raiders is a good example of it.
Human mind is complex. Anger and hatred can cause different reactions on different minds. Some people will get quiet and can not give up their hate and kill themselves slowly. Some of them can direct their hate to innocent people and believe innocent ones are the cause of their problems. These people can use their hate to do really bad things to the people around them and than put the blame on their past or in other words their hate and anger.
However some people learn to control their hate, fear and anger. This trio can be deadly in case they can be used as a weapon. Dark side is supposed to gain its power fear, anger and hatred. During all those years, when Vader worked as right arm of the emperor, his training must have continued and he became stronger in channelling his anger & hatred to different uses. He used it to increase his abilities. He confessed this when he confronted Obi Van in death star one.
Vader didn't have to control his anger with commanders. He was very strong when compared with normal people and he could use his basic powers to kill someone he did not like. Also he has to control his men and fear is a very good motivator. You kill one man from a group of 100 in a very bad way and remaining 99 will follow you for a while without questioning you.
blacksaber
10-10-2006, 12:36 PM
I believe he was using his anger through another channel. Anger and hate are very dangerous feelings. In case they can not be controlled, person can do things he or she will regret later. For example, the way Anakin went to save his mother and killed a whole village of tusken raiders is a good example of it.
Dude, he was with the Dark side. Their whole Modus Operandi is anger and hate. The question was; why was he not being himself, or at least; the self that is supposed to be anger and hate incarnate?
Mothman
10-10-2006, 02:48 PM
.....With Kenobi he showed no rage or anger, for hating Kenobi as he did he didn't show it.....
He didn't need to. His skills were far superior. "When last we met, I was but the learner. Now, I am the master."
Master of Brooms
10-10-2006, 07:17 PM
I like Vader not being openly angry except on occasions. It makes him like a boiling pressure-vessel. You never know when he's going to explode and lash out. Scarier, to me, than someone who constantly vents their anger and then gets over it.
Obi-wannabe
10-10-2006, 11:29 PM
Isn't controlling anger a jedi trait.....
Obi-wannabe
10-10-2006, 11:31 PM
He didn't need to. His skills were far superior. "When last we met, I was but the learner. Now, I am the master."
Judging by the lame duel you would never know it.
Obi-wannabe
10-10-2006, 11:32 PM
Dude, he was with the Dark side. Their whole Modus Operandi is anger and hate. The question was; why was he not being himself, or at least; the self that is supposed to be anger and hate incarnate?
Exaaactly.....
Dude, he was with the Dark side. Their whole Modus Operandi is anger and hate. The question was; why was he not being himself, or at least; the self that is supposed to be anger and hate incarnate?
He was transforming from one being to another. Look at Luke at the beginning of his training he was full of excitement and he was jumping up and down like a kid. In the end he was so grown up and calm. Did just happen by growing up or increasing age. No way. These people chose paths which led them to either a light or a dark end. Vader became a professional, he did not have to show his old self anymore. Anger and hate was his motivator, his fuel. He was using it now.
And again, he was showing his anger to the commanders in order to use fear for control. However this wouldn't have worked with Obi Van or Padme, because they knew what he was before.
Mothman
10-11-2006, 03:16 PM
Judging by the lame duel you would never know it.
Back in 1977 it seemed kind of cool.
:bye:
EmperorPalpatine
10-12-2006, 06:23 AM
Does hatred, fear, anger really leads to the dark side. But you can't choose not to fear.
General Grievous
10-16-2006, 07:22 PM
yeah, but Jedi are tought how to control fear =)
Tovor
10-26-2006, 02:01 PM
At the beginning he still felt fear, and love, toward Padme. In the scene after the slaughter of the Seperatist leaders, he stood on the balcony overlooking the lava, with a tear running down his face. Now, was that a tear for his fear of losing Padme...or was it a tear from the same kind of regret that he had after killing the Sandpeople in anger, when he said, "I'm a Jedi, I know I'm better than this," ? Might it have been a tear of remorse for the deeds he had carried out, knowing that it was wrong but also knowing that he was past the point of no return?
Darth Octavious
10-26-2006, 04:58 PM
The last statement that you said.
Zedekk
10-26-2006, 05:08 PM
^ Agreed what he said to what Tov said.
Tovor
10-26-2006, 05:13 PM
I agree with what the two people above me posted. Oh, wait...
DblDwn
10-26-2006, 10:03 PM
At the beginning he still felt fear, and love, toward Padme. In the scene after the slaughter of the Seperatist leaders, he stood on the balcony overlooking the lava, with a tear running down his face. Now, was that a tear for his fear of losing Padme...or was it a tear from the same kind of regret that he had after killing the Sandpeople in anger, when he said, "I'm a Jedi, I know I'm better than this," ? Might it have been a tear of remorse for the deeds he had carried out, knowing that it was wrong but also knowing that he was past the point of no return?
Hence the "conflict" that Luke speaks of in ROTJ.
Justin
10-31-2006, 02:13 PM
You can be angry and have hate without foaming at the mouth.
Obi-wannabe
10-31-2006, 11:45 PM
You can be angry and have hate without foaming at the mouth.
I agree, but he was downright emotionless in dealing with Obi Wan, the man he blamed for being in the suit. Unless he just calmed down after so many years.
On the final confrontation with Obi Van, many years have passed. They were two old enemies who had respect for each other now. You can hate someone, but as the time goes by, your initial hate and strong feelings loose their boiling anger part and become a part of your normal life, which is the most dangerous thing actually. Vader still hated Obi Van, but now it was o0nly a mission of should I say a feeling of the past.
Balnazzar
11-07-2006, 07:52 AM
Yes. But I think Vader`s hatred was mostly superficial. As he had hated Obi-wan in the past during the years he also began to admire him in some way.
Tovor
11-08-2006, 01:09 AM
Hence the "conflict" that Luke speaks of in ROTJ.
Exactly. Good point.
Tovor
11-08-2006, 01:11 AM
Yes. But I think Vader`s hatred was mostly superficial. As he had hated Obi-wan in the past during the years he also began to admire him in some way.
Please explain. He admired Obi-Wan a great deal before he turned to the dark side, after which his feelings turned to hatred and blame. Why do you think that he grew to admire him again after Ep. III?
Please explain. He admired Obi-Wan a great deal before he turned to the dark side, after which his feelings turned to hatred and blame. Why do you think that he grew to admire him again after Ep. III?
Vader had an enormous power under his command. He had scouts and spies all over the galaxy, but Obi-Wan somehow managed to slip from his grip. Could it be because of this?
Balnazzar
11-08-2006, 05:54 AM
Very possible. I don`t know why, but I am still convinced Vader was a bad Sith. It means that although he had allowed his anger to overcome him he didn`t completely forget his old feelings. This was also the reason he turned back to the light. As for Obi-wan, Vader knew he suppose to hate him and was trying to do so but he wasn`t capable. deep in his memory and in corner of his heart Obi-wan was still his beloved(ex) Master and teacher.
Very possible. I don`t know why, but I am still convinced Vader was a bad Sith. It means that although he had allowed his anger to overcome him he didn`t completely forget his old feelings. This was also the reason he turned back to the light. As for Obi-wan, Vader knew he suppose to hate him and was trying to do so but he wasn`t capable. deep in his memory and in corner of his heart Obi-wan was still his beloved(ex) Master and teacher.
You are right. Vader became a Sith, because under those circumstances he did not have any other choice. Also he had deep feelings for Obi-Wan. At one time he called Obi-Wan "the father he never had." This clearly shows how he felt for him.
Balnazzar
11-09-2006, 05:55 AM
I was once told; "If you are an angry person, it doesn`t mean that you realize what hatred is."
I suppose that goes for Vader too.
Zedekk
11-09-2006, 07:48 AM
Please explain. He admired Obi-Wan a great deal before he turned to the dark side, after which his feelings turned to hatred and blame. Why do you think that he grew to admire him again after Ep. III?
I was once told; "If you are an angry person, it doesn`t mean that you realize what hatred is."
I suppose that goes for Vader too.
Let's not forget the always present feelings of resentment Anakin had towards Obi-Wan, because Anakin felt he was being held back by his master. And which in RotS was transfered over to the Jedi Councel for not making him a Master when being appointed on the councel.
Balnazzar
11-10-2006, 07:02 AM
Let's not forget the always present feelings of resentment Anakin had towards Obi-Wan, because Anakin felt he was being held back by his master. And which in RotS was transfered over to the Jedi Councel for not making him a Master when being appointed on the councel.
True, but feelings of resentment shouldn`t be considered as feelings of hatred. In Anakin`s case these feelings were a part of his violated pride.
True, but feelings of resentment shouldn`t be considered as feelings of hatred. In Anakin`s case these feelings were a part of his violated pride.
That's right. Obi-Wan was Anakin's mentor and he was the father Anakin never had. Think about our elders. When I was a teenager I wanted to buy a motorcycle, but my father did not let me buy it. He told me "Boy, you are not ready for such responsibility." , because my father thinks vehicles are as dangerous as guns and should be treated like guns which I agree. I never had a motor bike afterwards, because of several reasons. I still think my father over reacted at that time, but this never made me hate him.
Obi-Wan protected Anakin, after Qui-Gon died and took over his training. He even argued with the Jedi Council. I think you are right, Anakin's feelings were a part of his pride.
faloy
11-10-2006, 11:29 AM
but yet the only reason why obi-wan protected anakin was because qui-gon told him too. obi-wan had wories about THE BOY in episode 1.
Balnazzar
11-14-2006, 06:51 AM
I hope you don`t want to claim that Obi-Wan during all the years, all battles and missions together, after all dangerous achievements of risking life, didn`t grow any feelings to Anakin.? That would be absurd!
I hope you don`t want to claim that Obi-Wan during all the years, all battles and missions together, after all dangerous achievements of risking life, didn`t grow any feelings to Anakin.? That would be absurd!
I agree. Obi Wan must be made of stone, not to grow any feelings to Anakin. Anakin saved his life many times and saved him from certain death while they were rescuing Palpatine. At one time, it seemed as if Anakin was taking care of Obi-Wan.
Zedekk
11-14-2006, 04:18 PM
JEdi code #1: No attachments...
Balnazzar
11-20-2006, 09:06 AM
JEdi code #1: No attachments...
The Force is one big attachment my friend,...if not the Jedi, who can more draw their powers from its essence,...?
I used to believe that, "No attachments" was used for love affairs. I mean a Jedi, must take care of another Jedi. That is why they are together.
Balnazzar
11-20-2006, 01:17 PM
I think "no attachments" IS used for love relationships. And it is obvious that a Jedi must take care of another Jedi. (At least when on some dangerous mission)
Zedekk
11-20-2006, 06:58 PM
I think no attachments should be used for everything (relationships, politics, codes and beliefs) that way the force wouldn't get out of balance, but those Jedi are only human... well sentient, um not perfect either, so its hard to walk the fine line of balance and no attachments to anything. to say one thing is bad when being compared to another is just point of view and not neccesarily truth.
Balnazzar
11-21-2006, 06:14 AM
I think no attachments should be used for everything (relationships, politics, codes and beliefs) that way the force wouldn't get out of balance,
True.
but those Jedi are only human...
Also true.
Sarah-Leia
11-22-2006, 04:28 AM
What a fabulous question to turn into a thread. I have absolutely no idea, though. Seriously. I agree with almost all of you!
faloy
12-03-2006, 09:02 PM
What a fabulous question to turn into a thread. I have absolutely no idea, though. Seriously. I agree with almost all of you!
obi-wan had worries about him in the begining, but he grew out of it. but when anikan started turning to the darkside obi-wan just.................well you know.
melissa_ladyvader
12-06-2006, 12:07 PM
anakin is bad because he's sexy
he's sexy because he is just BAD
and as for him being "darth vader"....he's even more sexier
more than luke,leia,han,chewie,and emperor palpatine
SPEAD THE WORD!
he was angry because of all the bull-crap obi-wan and his "gang" said to him
he went to the DARKSIDE....and became lord darth vader.because of one person............PADME!...lol just joking peeps........
they lied to him, he wanted to be a jedi master, just like ob-wan but NO
they told him all of this bull-crap saying "yo dude ya cant be a masta!"
then when he became DARTH VADER that little brat palpatine told him he killed padme
what a little squirt!............THEY WERE ALL LIARS FROM THE TIME ANAKIN WAS 9 YEARS OLD!
anakin is bad because he's sexy
he's sexy because he is just BAD
and as for him being "darth vader"....he's even more sexier
more than luke,leia,han,chewie,and emperor palpatine
SPEAD THE WORD!
he was angry because of all the bull-crap obi-wan and his "gang" said to him
he went to the DARKSIDE....and became lord darth vader.because of one person............PADME!...lol just joking peeps........
they lied to him, he wanted to be a jedi master, just like ob-wan but NO
they told him all of this bull-crap saying "yo dude ya cant be a masta!"
then when he became DARTH VADER that little brat palpatine told him he killed padme
what a little squirt!............THEY WERE ALL LIARS FROM THE TIME ANAKIN WAS 9 YEARS OLD!
Well, I've never looked at it this way.:scratchchin:
Zedekk
12-06-2006, 04:32 PM
............THEY WERE ALL LIARS FROM THE TIME ANAKIN WAS 9 YEARS OLD!
I'm pretty sure they were all liars before, poor helpless victim that he is, Anakin came along.
melissa_ladyvader
12-07-2006, 12:24 AM
what a bunch of bas*****
huttslime
12-07-2006, 02:00 AM
In all three episodes of the OT Vader seemed to be in control of his anger during his duels. With Kenobi he showed no rage or anger, for hating Kenobi as he did he didn't show it. In both duels with Luke he showed himself in control also. He did show anger with his officers though but I find it interesting how anger was supposed to give him focus in duels he sure didn't show it.:vader:
The easy non-star wars answer to this is that when they made the movie, they didn't really associate the dark side with a lot of hate yet, I think.
The star wars answer is that (my professional opinion: ) Vader doesnt really have anything to be mad at, now that his wife is dead and all that...
melissa_ladyvader
12-07-2006, 11:51 AM
meh...despite that
anakin turned out to be one HELL of a sithlord
Balnazzar
12-08-2006, 07:13 AM
anakin turned out to be one HELL of a sithlord
But there was still good in him...so before death he was able to turn back to the light.. guess he was, after all still more of a Jedi than a Sith.
But there was still good in him...so before death he was able to turn back to the light.. guess he was, after all still more of a Jedi than a Sith.
I believe Anakin never became a complete Sith Lord. He was neither a Jedi or a Sith but lost in between. That's why the good in him turned him to the light in the end.
Balnazzar
12-08-2006, 07:30 AM
I share the same belief.
faloy
12-08-2006, 03:05 PM
thats what i think also, but as for palpatine he had it comen in episode 6
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